by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Artemis PCP air pistol.
This report covers:
- Slow regulator
- Fill
- The test
- Sight-in
- RWS Superdomes
- JSB Exact RS
- JSB Hades
- H&N Baracudas
- Field Target Trophy
- JSB Exact Jumbo
- Observations
- Summary
Today we take our first look at the accuracy of the Artemis PP700S-A PCP pistol. I shot it using the sights that come on the gun.
Slow regulator
I read Part 2 before starting the test, because I knew the regulator on the pistol took a long time to settle down after a shot. From the comments of some readers who own the gun, my experience is typical and goes away as the gun breaks in.
Fill
I also read where I had discovered that the test pistol does not want to be filled to 3,000 psi. It likes a 2800 fill, so both times I filled it that’s where I stopped. And again there was owner agreement.
The test
I shot off a sandbag rest at 10 meters. The pistol was rested directly on the bag, so there was little or no motion. I decided to shoot 5-shot groups that would allow me to test more pellets than if I had shot 10 shots. I tried to wait about two minutes between each shot, which we learned in Part 2 is the amount of time it takes the regulator to fill.
Sight-in
When testing a new airgun I never know where the first shot will hit, so I usually start shooting 10-12 feet from the target. But when the gun being tested has open sights I figure the pellet will be pretty close to on, right out of the box. Wrong! The first pellet hit the target 2.75-inches below the aim point and a little to the left. There is no elevation adjustment. I could adjust the rear sight right and left, but I left it alone for now. And that turned out to be fine because pellets went both right and left.
RWS Superdomes
The first pellet to be tested was the RWS Superdome. Though I aimed at the 6 o’clock on the upper bull, 4 of the five shots hit at the very bottom of the bull below it, and one was even lower and off the target paper altogether. Because of that I had to photograph the targets differently this time.
Five Superdomes went into 0.858-inches at 10 meters. Four shots are sort of together in 0.59-inches, which is better. It was the first shot that hit below the paper.
Five RWS Superdomes went into 0.858-inches at 10 meters, with 4 shots going into a tighter 0.59-inches.
JSB Exact RS
Next I tried 5 JSB Exact RS pellets. I thought, given the pistol’s lower power, that perhaps lighter pellets were the answer. But I was wrong. This time five went even lower on the target into a group measuring 1.175-inches between centers.
Well, it’s clear that JSB Exact RS pellets are not right for this Artemis. Five went into 1.175-inches at 10 meters.
JSB Hades
When I was at the Texas Airgun Show a few weeks ago, a reader gave me a tin of JSB Hades hollowpoint pellets. He told me after testing them he purchased 40 tins immediately. I had already requested a tin and had it on hand for a special test, but after hearing his confidence I knew I had to include them the first chance I got. And this was it.
The Hades is a new hollowpoint pellet from JSB.
Five Hades pellets went into 0.716-inches at 10 meters. There are actually two separate groups of three and two pellets, so the potential is for this pellet to stack at this distance! This was the smallest group of the test, which makes it clear why he was so enthusiastic about them!
JSB Hades hollowpoints made the smallest group of the test, measuring 0.716-inches between centers. The hole on the right has three pellets in it, which shows what this pellet really wants to do.
H&N Baracudas
The next pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda with a 5.50mm head. What a tease it was, because 4 of the 5 went into 0.234-inches, but one of the five opened the group to 0.763-inches. I have a feeling this is another pellet to try when the pistol is scoped.
Four Baracuda pellets are in 0.234-inches at 10 meters, but one of the five opened the group to 0.763-inches.
Field Target Trophy
The next pellet I tried was the H&N Field Target Trophy with a 5.53mm head. I have never had much luck with this pellet, though I know many shooters do. You might think that introduces bias into the test, and perhaps it does, but I really did shoot my very best. Five pellets went into 1.443-inches at 10 meters, though four of them are in 0.517-inches. I guess that’s better than it looks.
The Artemis put 5 F&N Field Target Trophy pellets into 1.443-inches at 10 meters. That’s the largest group of the test, but 4 of those 5 are in 0.517-inches.
JSB Exact Jumbo
The last pellet I tried was the ever-reliable JSB Exact Jumbo. This is usually one of the most accurate pellets in any airgun. But not this time. They dropped a full 4-inches below the aim point and five grouped in 0.844-inches.
Five JSB Exact Jumbo pellets went into 0.844-inches at 10 meters.
Observations
I found the Artemis pistol easy to hold steady, but with a trigger pull that’s too stiff when I’m doing precise work. And the front sight blade is too thin for the width of the rear notch, so I had to guesstimate the sight picture a little.
I got 20 shots on a fill and there were probably 5 more than that. I just didn’t want to take any chances with the accuracy.
I tried to wait a full two minutes between shots for the regulator to cycle, but I’m sure I cut it a little short several times. That won’t be necessary, once the pistol is broken in.
Summary
The Artemis PP700S-A PCP pistol seems to be well-made and very stable. I don’t like the fact that the rear sight doesn’t adjust for elevation, but I suppose most shooters will scope it. That’s what I will do next time and see what this gun can do at 25 yards.
Good morning
I wonder if the 2800 psi is the upper limit for the good string of shots from nr 20 to nr 40. The one I have also “lives” in its lower pressures, making it very easy to fill with a hand pump.
By the way taking off some tension from the hammer spring helps with the trigger along with the power curve.
Bill
B.B.
Are there any aftermarket sights that would improve this gun’s accuracy? Both my LP-8 and 6G are more accurate.
Ain’t supposed to be like that!
-Y
Yogi,
There is no easy or good way to attach aftermarket sights to this pistol.
B.B.
Maybe something along these lines?
/product/crosman-williams-rear-sight-notched-blade-elevation-windage-adj-3-8?a=2008
RR,
And how does it attach to the pistol? No way that I can see.
B.B.
BB,
If you take the rear sight off, is that an 11mm rail there?
Nope.
BB,
You will probably need a front one also.
/product/utg-model-4-15-flip-up-rear-sight?a=4688
RR,
There is no dovetail in the rear of this pistol.
Wait a minute — yes there is!
B.B.
I thought I saw something back there.
Scoped and 25 yards,….. for a pistol! Looking forwards to that!
Good Day to all,………… Chris
I may end up with a PCP pistol yet. I would have to shoot this one a whole bunch of times though. Two minutes per shot, woah.
I like what you are saying about the JSB Hades. I am looking forward to hearing and seeing more about those.
RR,
Yeah — after I saw its performance I started thinking how I could test the Hades pellet.
B.B.
BB,
I think I see a blog series here.
I am always seeing stuff about how this HP pellet or that HP pellet expands in gel, yadayadayada. What I do not see is how well they group, most especially with the longer ranges. They might show a kill zone group at 10 yards, but how well do they do at 25 yards, 50 yards? It is like power, if you can’t hit it, what good is it?
Perhaps you could get together a batch of the latest and greatest hollow point / hunting pellets that have come out in the recent years and see how they perform accuracy wise in various air rifles.
RR,
Well, that would be a series, all right. I will consider it.
B.B.
I agree! It sounds like a great idea for a blog.
Question: would be possible to use some type of ballistic gelatin – I used bar soap in my early experimental days – to see if there is any validity to the claims of different HP and hunting designs at practical pellet speeds?
I don’t have any recent experience but I am afraid that most hunting pellet designs are similar to the fishing lures in that they are designed to attract fishermen and not necessarily fish.
Henry
Henry,
I have a block of ballistic gelatin waiting for this blog.
B.B.
BB,
Awesome!
Henry,
I do indeed concur. Most camo is the same way.
With me, expansion is a secondary concern. First I have to hit it. If it then expands, great. It could blow into a blue million fragments after impact, but if you don’t hit the squirrel, so what?
I couldn’t have said any better RR, just my thinking.
Henry
RR,
Here are a couple of Youtube video reviews of the JSB Hades pellet. Giles does the first one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v6TErCNLcA
The second review is by Rick Rehm (shooter 1721) and he demonstrates the expansion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_-wnjxvt0
This is a short one from Ted’s Holdover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEQ-bxHB4Q
The accuracy seems to be good but expansion with a sub-12 FPE rife doesn’t. The expansion is much better with more powerful PCPs (FAC rated).
Geo
Geo,
I have been checking these out and I am hearing and seeing good things about these JSBs elsewhere also.
What I am hoping for here is a series on the performance, including accuracy, of various hunting pellets. For years I have been listening to various reviewers singing the praises of how much damage this or that pellet does, but it has only been recently that some are exploring the accuracy of such. Oh yeah, this pellet does all kind of damage when it hits, but you could not hit the broad side of a barn with it even if you were standing inside. I know, I have some.
Yes, I know what you mean. I haven’t tried the JSB Hades pellets myself. I have tried the JSB Exact Jumbo 15.89s though and they didn’t do as well as the Heavy 18.13gs. I just ordered a new tin of 500 JSB Exact Jumbo Heavies form Pyramid so it will be a while before I order anything else. The 18.13g JSB have done all that I ask of them, so why change? I am a creature of habit, staying with something that I like, or what works well. I have an open mind though and like to see what others are experiencing. I like watching those videos of Matt Dubber, even though I could never, nor would ever, spend that kind of money on an airgun and scope. But I can still dream anyway 😉
Did you happen to watch Matt Dubber’s videos on the Rocky Mountain Airgun Challenge? The $39 million dollar FX “team house” in Utah is really something. Matt posted four parts and won two of the competitions and took home $8000. You really have to watch these.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF5KAO4-2cA
Geo
Geo
Try them. If you truly pest or hunt they are the pellet. They fly the same as the have 15.89 and they do thier job when they hit.
They cost a bit more but they work. It’s what I buy now for my modded .22 Maximus.
Once people find out about them there will be all kinds of JSB 15.89 and 18.1 grain pellets on the shelf for you to buy. 😉
But seriously I’m hooked on them.
Geo,
The truth is I usually do not watch the competition videos. They tend to be long and very boring, at least for me.
I think you would enjoy these videos. The videos actual showing the shooting competition are not long. What is interesting is the FX team house and all the professional shooters gathered in this beautiful location near Salt Lake, Utah.
Geo
RR
It’s the pellet I buy now. It performs just like the JSB 15.89’s
It costs more but I don’t care. It’s doing exactly what I want.
I thought the Hades was mainly a hunting pellet? The review that I read said something about flying leaves…
-Y
Yes, you are correct. But it is the same weight at the JSB Exact Jumbos at 15.89g. It has been shown to be just as accurate out to 50 yards as well. One of the complaints regarding JSB pellets is that they don’t package them with a screw off lid. They have address this concern with the Hades pellets having a screw off lid…finally. If you watch any of the video reviews posted above, it is demonstrated that the Hades pellets have very good expansion, but only in higher powered PCPs.
Geo
Geo
They are accurate. And that is what you want in a hunting/pesting pellet.
Plus they smack when you hit.
All I can say is if you all don’t at least keep a couple tins of 500 on hand your missing out to put it nicely. I’m tell’n ya they work.
If the JSB 15.89 and 18.1 grain pellets didn’t exist. These would be my target pellets I would use. Plus a extra benefit that they transfer thier energy when they hit.
I can hear the difference when I shoot at my duct tape, phone book, 2×4, and 1/8″ plate target holder/backstop I use.
Seriously they are accurate and hit hard. I’m not going to go into detail but since I got them I have hit every pest I shot at and nothing moved after I hit it. And I’m not just talking squirrels and starlings.
Notice how I keep going on. I’ll stop here but really I can say more.
Try them. Try them. Try them. Try them. Try them. Try them. Ok I’ll stop now.
GF1,
Thanks for your insight. Being that you have actual experience with them, it’s a good testimonial as to their effectiveness. Appreciate your comments. I have found that if the shot is placed well, the pest usually drops like a rock, no matter what pellet is used. But those Hades do make a heck of a big wound channel. This would possibly make a clean kill even if the pellet is slightly off the mark.
Geo
Geo
Thanks and let me know if you try some.
Will do…
Thank you for your report on the Artemis PP700.
I have heard, that there is a version with a magazine, the PP750, on the way as well.
Anyway.
On the 19th of march, you wrote about the Diana Stormrider Generation II, that you wanted to try the precision of it with both the UTG Micro Reflex and with the Bug Buster scope as well.
You also wrote, that ”…there is a lot more story to tell. I’ll try not to let so much time pass before the next one.”
I haven’t seen it yet, but maybe I just missed it…?
Sincerely
Krasi,
Yes, the Stormrider Gen II is sitting here in my office, awaiting that test. It has been shoved to the back so many times. I will get on with it.
B.B.
Nice report. Ought to be interesting at 25 yds.
Just to say the Hades pellets work. They perform petty much identical to the JSB 15.89’s. plus they do expand nice. That’s the .22 caliber pellet I buy now.
And BB a question about the pistol. If it’s regulated you shouldn’t have to worry about how full your start pressure is. Only your ending pressure when you come off the regulator. How come this gun it seems to make a difference in full pressure from what you wrote today? That sounds a little fishy to me.
Besides owing one and experimenting with it I did some homework also. It seems that the regulator is not a common type and there is a comparison/evaluation from HUMMA, if I remember right. In any case your question exactly is the point of my comment, first one today.
Bill
Bill
So did that comparison/evaluation say that it was similar to Huma regulators?
I had a couple guns I tryed the Huma regulators in and if the regulator was set at 1100 psi I could fill the gun to 1200 or 3500 psi or anything in between and it would still shoot the same velocity with those pressure. The change in velocity would happen when I would go below the regulator set pressure and velocity would drop steadily.
Absolutely right about how the regulator concept works. I will try to find that reading or blog post in order to be more specific. Anyhow I think that BB’s string confirm my memory.
Bill
Bill
It’s ok. You don’t need to find it.
My whole thing about what BB said others and he said is how is 200 psi difference in fill pressure make any kind of difference. I know everything has it’s limit. But that’s walking a fine line to say 200 psi difference is doing something bad to this pistol on the intake side of the valve. The exhaust side is another story.
How the regulated working pressure or exhaust is set that’s what affects performance. Just trying to understand why 200 psi makes a difference with the bottles full fill starting pressure. Don’t see 200 psi making much difference in wearing out the regulator.
GF1,
I finally figured out what you are trying to say. And it’s interesting that the pistol performs the way that it does.
I’m going to have to think about this.
B.B.
BB
Ok. And I figured I wasn’t being clear enough when I was trying to describe things.
Maybe this pistol has a different regulated system than we are use to. It would be nice to see a parts diagram. Well I should say a good parts diagram. That might help to figure things out.
But let me know what you come up with. I could say a bunch of thoughts right now. But I just don’t know how the gun is built.
GF1,
Right now I am wondering if I should retest the velocity on a 3,000 psi fill. Was I shooting too fast for the regulator to keep up, and was I mistaking that for a balanced and unregulated valve? It sounds that way.
B.B.
BB
Now that does sound like it could be a possibility.
Yes why not try 3000 psi again. It will tell us something.
IWell, being frustrated with my memory I did a quick Google search and guess what; huma-air site describes their PP700 reg as an improvement of the standard “constant pressure valve”.
I hope now that my posts from part1 will be a little more useful to those interested in this airgun and help BB with his article.
Bill
Bill
So it has a Huma regulator?
No, it obviously has a valve acting sort of a regulator. Huma-air offer a real regulator as an improvement.
Bill
Bill
Oh ok. Well then that explains the fill pressure why 200 psi is making some difference.
Now that I know that it sounds alot like a Benjamin Marauder rifle design. A Marauder rifle can be adjusted to act like it has a regulator.
Now I understand the pistol better.
GF1,
Maybe it’s like my Gamo Urban. The manual on the Urban states that it has a self regulating valve. It does have a pretty flat shot string if it is only filled to 2900 psi. The full fill pressure is 3365 psi.
Geo
Geo
If you look at a air gun valve they do have a chamber that pressurises before the top hat and valve that’s fed from the air resivior. So in a way that is regulating some air before the exhaust side of the valve.
And of course the regulators we are talking about regulated the exhaust side of the regulator to the valve.
So that’s probably a bit of a sales pitch they are using I bet.
The only way to know for sure is to see a drawing of the gun to see how it works.
GF1,
FULL pressure or FILL pressure? And what difference did it make today? The groups are not related to the fill pressure.
Fill a gun that has a reg too high and you slowly destroy the reg. The reg isn’t set up to take the higher pressure. That’s what difference it makes.
B.B.
Here are groups that Ron Robinson shot with the same gun at 35 yards
David Enoch
BB
Read my comment to Arcadian.
And yep agree the regulator will eventually get destroyed. So how high is too high to start destroying it then. Maybe 1500 psi will start destroying it. How would a person know what is too high?
So maybe the Air Venturi 13 cubic inch regulated HPA bottle shouldn’t be filled to 3000 psi. And how do you know what a safe pressure is to make that regulator last? Not being sarcastic. Would like to know how to determine that.
Gunfun1,
Short answer: design/materials engineering.
Long answer:. Let the above experts try their best to give/specify max limits.
Have DT&E types take the device and test it to failure using a representative number of devices.
Consult company or consulting lawyers about how much risk will cost over better materials and/or redesign.
Consult company bean counters for final guidance.
Tell add department to make it sound like it will last forever and be indestructible!
Sell product to Big Box Stores and Internet Outlets.
Blame it on the ignorantia when it fails shortly after purchase!!!!
shootski
PS: some of the above is actually how it is done and some is given Tounge-in-Cheek ;^)
Shootski
I never heard of such a thing. 😉
B.B.,
Back in Part 2 you came to this conclusion: “Bingo! I think we have proven that there is indeed a regulator inside this pistol and that this particular one is passing air very slowly. That renders the first shot string null. And we can consider the velocity with RWS Superdomes to be around 620 f.p.s., give or take.”
You may be right but let me propose an alternate reality without ever having seen the internals of this PCP Powerplant. I believe that the late in the curve peak power you showed in Part 2 first series as well as the second could also be caused by an internal to the reservoir tube valve with a plenum which is Untersprung on the return side and either Oversprung on the return side or has to much adjusted preload on the hammer spring and a over choked TP (Transfer Port) which will give the same shape power curve you showed us. The second series is particularly instructive since the plenum was permitted to creep up in pressure due to the weak return Spring in the valve. This is a somewhat unique valve arrangement that can be found on only a few PCP since most have a valve body containing a complete control system with no plenum and a completely separate (from the valve) air reservoir. Many Quackenbush PCP use a variant of the system I am proposing may be in the Artemis pistol. The DAQ is set up for vast FLOW with little or no efficiency considered and literally NO power curve with so few HIGH POWER shots.
Only a good diagram (or a disassembled reservoir and receiver) of the Powerplant will prove it it has a typical Regulator or the Hybrid Powerplant I suspect based on posts of other readers and the problematic performance history. Dennis is not even happy with most folks using a Hammer Spring preload adjuster on is PCPs! Because they don’t get it set up right in the first place…Airgunner on phone: “shoots weak now!!”. “With this bullet”…”NO! I don’t have a Chronograph!”. Dennis just mutters…”I should just be able to turn the adjuster a couple of turns to get more power….”. And on, and on, and on, and on!
Too many adjustments on PCPs have soured a large number of airgunners and they blame it on the Darksiders that took the time to understand the real complexities of how it all works together and now won’t share the SECRET INCANTATIONS used to make a PCP: Precise, Accurate, Consistent and Repeatable!
REGULATORS only seem to be the answer!
END of RANT!
shootski
shootski,
Yeah, that’s what I’m starting to think, as well. A quick test will verify it.
B.B.
B.B. and Everyone,
Happy Fourth of July tomorrow!
Geo
Hopefully this works – I am trying to attach a picture of the parts diagram of this gun. It is not the best resolution, but the best I could pull off right now. It can be found in other reviews out there on the web.
In that diagram, parts 24 – 30 make up the regulator, or as they call it the “constant pressure valve”. This is a regulator (admittedly, not a great one) complete with a belleville washer stack. Some owners have never got theirs to settle down and have over ridden this regulator and put a Huma regulator in the tube. Mine works well enough so I still have it in mine (a 700-W that is about 3 years old).
As I have said before, it takes a LOT of shots for it to settle down – like over 500. Mine now gives me about 45 shots of 16 grain pellets right at 500 fps (I use it for punching paper) with a fill to about 2400 or so, and I can get more if I go higher but the ES does grow. I do like the gun, and mine appears to be much more accurate than what BB is seeing in his, but then mine is fully broken in already . . .
Alan
FYI
If you “right click” on this picture and “save image as” to your computer desktop, you can then open it and zoom in much closer to see more detail. Also to enable reading the detail list on the right.
AlanMcD,
Thank you for the diagram!
I have seen 10 Meter World Class airguns with simpler systems to provide consistent surcharge pressure and volume shot-to-shot!!!
The use of a hammer with what appears to be a 90° oriented hammer spring astounds me…what were the thinking? Other than the idea that many pistols and some rifles have a thumb cocking Hammer.
More study is called for certainly; but the Bellvile Spring(s) Stack orientation etc, as well as that Hammer/Hammer Spring arrangement seem suspect. One or those or both could be additional causes for the uber long break-in period!
Thank you again!
It may (the possibilities the PD shows) just push me to look at the Artemis line of pistols seriously…too bad it isn’t a standard Exploded Diagram but I think we can work with it.
shootski
Shootski,
The use of an external hammer rather than an inline hammer leads to a more compact design.
Siraniko
Alan
Where are the Belleville washers at. I’ll I find is seals when I look at the item descriptions.
What item number are they?
Oh and thanks for posting the diagram.
Gunfun,
They are part number 25 in that diagram, and there are 10 of them.
Here are a few links with good info on the regulator:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150303.0
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150303.0
I never touched my regulator, as it worked fine once it settled in. I only messed with the hammer and trigger (and added a new front mount to use an LDC to make it much quieter).
Alan
Alan
I don’t need no more info. I couldn’t see the diagram well enough even after I down loaded it.
But went back and checked using a magnifying glass on the item 25 description. Sure enough 10 of them. And that’s the right position for the regulator to be in the air tube.
That settles that. The pistol is regulated. So a 200 psi start fill pressure should not make a difference. I knew a diagram would tell the story.
Thanks again.
Gunfun,
I hate to have to say it, but BB’s numbers are probably right. The extra 200 psi in mine, over what I have found to be the ideal fill pressure, will increase the ES of the shot string. The data does not lie.
I figure my regulator is set for around 1300 psi, so filling much higher than 2500 does increase the load on the regulator. They do have a an upper limit for “flatness” and this one seems to be on the short side of things . . . but if kept in its range it does quite well. As BB says, more proof on the need to have a chronograph with PCPs . . . .
Alan
Alan
As I was reading your comment something popped into my mind.
I’m thinking the regulator is acting that way because it has a small volume air tube/resivior. What I remembered was when I put a Huma regulator in my Benjamin WildFire. It acted that way too.
So maybe the regulator is fine in the pistol it just needs more air volume ahead of the regulator.
Siraniko,
True up to a point…
I’m waiting to see if perhaps binding at some point around the trigger group isn’t what really is Breaking In…
shootski
Shootski,
I doubt that it is binding in the trigger group that is – while tuning mine early on, I decided to take my trigger group apart, lightly polish things up, and lube with moly and adjust to my liking. it made a great improvement in the trigger, but the speed swings in the string continued until it had been shot quite a bit more.
The same goes for the hammer too . . . .
Alan
Last night I watched a YouTube video of Giles rebuilding his Artemis M30 rifle. He found the insides to be a real mess, with excessive amounts of heavy grease and burrs. He cleaned, deburred, and polished all the parts. After re-assembly, he said it shot much better and more consistently. I noticed when he was removing the regulator that the belleville washers had excessive amounts of heavy grease on them. It was so gunked up I’m surprised it would even function.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/giles-rebuilds-his-artemis-m30-pcp-air-rifle/
Geo