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Diana 10

What’s it gonna be today?

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↓ 235 comments

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

History of airguns

This report covers:

  • The beginning
  • Walther LGR
  • HOWEVER!
  • Diana model 10
  • What is a Diana 10?
  • The grips
  • The top spacer
  • Sights
  • Trigger
  • Power
  • Summary

Today is a special treat. We are going to go back into my distant past and see something that was pivotal in my life. It was, and yet this one wasn’t. This is something that made me the airgunner I have become, and I have been telling you about it on this blog for many years. I have and yet I haven’t. Read on, Grasshopper.

The beginning

The year was 1976 (I think), and I was walking with my first wife and son through Rothenburg ob der Tauber — a walled medieval town next to the Tauber river in northern Bavaria, Germany. Rothenburg is a tourist town today, because it is so well preserved and colorful. I enjoyed going there with my little family on my time off and just walking around seeing the sites!

One day, however, something different happened. Up a side street I saw the sign for a gun store. Now, ANY gun store in Germany would catch my attention, but one in Rothenburg just had to be special, like everything else in that quaint old town. So, we wandered in and looked around.

Walther LGR

The owner spoke good English, so there was no problem communicating. And he saw right away that I was a gun guy. So all barriers came down. He saw my eyes alight on a Walther LGR target rifle, which he brought down and handed to me. It was the first 10-meter air rifle I had ever seen! I was blown away, and the owner could see it. When he told me how the gun was charged to shoot I was even more flabbergasted. I think he was, too, and he just wanted to show off his special toy. If you want to see what I’m talking about, read this three-part report.

But like I said — I was a family man with a young family. I didn’t have the kind of money the LGR was commanding, and although I had a credit card I had learned by that time that the bills always come due. So — looky and even touchy but no takey home.

HOWEVER!

Then I spotted a brown leather briefcase in one of his glass sales cases. Inside, resting in bright yellow foam was an air pistol I had never seen. That one was every bit as exotic as the LGR, plus it had a price tag of less than half that of the rifle! This the family man could do (his wife said).

Diana model 10

That pistol was a .177-caliber Diana model 10 ten-meter target pistol. I didn’t know what 10-meter target was at the time, and it was just about a decade from becoming an Olympic sport (rifle in 1984 and pistol in ’88). Europeans had their matches going, but I was unaware of them.

The pistol, though, spoke for itself! And today I will let it speak to all of you. What I bought in that German gun store that day was a Diana model 10. But Robert Beeman sold it as the Beeman 900. It was at the top of a line of Dianas that Beeman Precision Arms once sold.

Diana 10
This is what a Diana model 10 pistol looks like in its case.

The gun I recently purchased from an estate and am testing for you now wasn’t marked as a Diana model 10. It was marked as a Beeman model 900. And there was no case, no manual and no tools.

Beeman 900 marks
This is how the test pistol is marked.

According to the Blue Book of Airguns (the new edition of which will be available again before the end of this year — stocking stuffer), The first model 900s were marked Beeman’s Original Model 10. “Original,” if you remember your airgun history, is what the German Diana company had to mark their guns for a time after WW II, because Milbro in Scotland was awarded the rights to manufacture airguns using the Diana name.

So, Beeman sold it as a model 900. They also sold the Diana model 6 that was closely related as their model 800 and the 6M target configuration that was even closer as the model 850. But their 900 is a Diana 10, The same as that 10 I bought in Rothenburg.

Build a Custom Airgun

What is a Diana 10?

The Diana model 10 is a 10-meter target pistol from the 1970s. At the time it was in competition with the FWB model 65 and Walther’s LP 3. The 10 is a breakbarrel spring-piston target pistol that uses the Giss counter-recoiling pistons to cancel recoil. You feel a pulse of energy with the shot but no movement from the gun. 

This is the air pistol I used to convert my gun-hating father-in-law from California into an airgunner. That story is worth reading if you have the time.

The earliest model 10s had a lump at the muzzle end of a synthetic spring-loaded barrel jacket. The shooter pulled the jacket forward and rotated it 90 degrees until the lump was above the front sight. The lump was your hand’s protection when you broke the barrel to cock the pistol. It sounds awkward, but after 10 shots everyone becomes a pro.

Beeman 900 lump down
The lump is down most of the time.

Beeman 900 lump up
Rotate the lump up to protect your hand when you want to cock the pistol.

The grips

The grips are a set of walnut panels with a palm swell on the right side. The palm shelf at the bottom of the grip slides up to make the grip tight, because 10-meter competition is shot with one hand, only. The shelf can also be tipped up in back to make it even tighter and the Diana 10 grip has a feature I have never seen on another 10-meter pistol. Believe me — I have looked!

Beeman 900 grip
The Diana 10 /Beeman 900 grip is extremely adjustable to grab the shooter’s hand and hold it tight!

The top rear of the palm shelf can be slid back just a trifle to wedge into the shooter’s wrist joint, making this grip the most positive one I have ever felt. And I’m a 10-meter pistol shooter, so believe me — I have tried a lot of grips! But wait — there’s more!

The top spacer

There is also a spacer on top of the grip where the top of the hand touches the spring tube. This spacer pushes down on the top of your hand to make the Diana 10 grip the tightest one ever created! You don’t grab this pistol, you put it on. It can actually hurt to hold the gun for a full 60-shot match, but the gun is going nowhere your arm doesn’t allow. You don’t hold this pistol— it holds you!

The top spacer can be removed from the pistol, for those who can’t tolerate it. Or you can just adjust the palm shelf down until the grip is nice and comfy. The little shelf on the rear of the palm shelf doesn’t have to be deployed. Heck, you can even hold a model 10 with two hands if you want to blaspheme the sport of 10-meter pistol! But a hand that has to be massaged after a match belongs on a winner! Hoo-rrrrah!

Seriously, guys, 10 meter rifle shooters have an expensive fitted leather jacket and pants that bind them up like sausages. They can’t gain more than 5 pounds or this stuff no longer fits. They also have expensive shooting shoes, and a heavy leather shooting glove and kneeling rolls for their legs. All the leather is in “their colors.” They bring two cases on wheels to the competition — one for their rifle and the other for all their stuff.

Ten-meter pistol shooters show up in jeans and a tee shirt. That pistol grip is their one interface and believe me, it matters a lot to them!

Sights

Naturally the sights on the model 10 are adjustable. But they adjust in ways most of you have never seen. The front sight adjusts for width! Instead of different inserts, the sight swivels to be wider or narrower within the range of adjustment. Or take it off and there is another lower and skinnier blade waiting.

The pistol also came originally with several different rear sight notches. Install the one you like and then adjust the width of the front post to suit. Unfortunately someone has painted this front blade with orange phosphorescent paint! No doubt it was to see the front post better, but when the target is illuminated correctly in a match, a dark black post is best. I have to do something to fix it.

Beeman 900 front sight
By turning that front blade you change its width in the rear notch. Remove it altogether for a skinny front blade. Gotta get rid of that orange paint though!

Beeman 900 rear sight
This photo not only shows the rear sight, it also shows the top spacer that puts additional pressure on the hand holding the pistol. I believe it can be removed.

Trigger

I know you want to know about the trigger, but I plan to cover it next time. It adjusts for first stage length, second stage weight and I think overtravel. The front of the blade also cants to the right, because this pistol is made for right-hand shooters. A left-hand grip does exist, so I have to believe the trigger blade face will also cant to the left.

Beeman 900 trigger
We’ll talk about the trigger adjustments next time, but you can see how many there are! I bet you all know what that one with the red sealant on it is! It’s the sear engagement! No touchie!

Power

The Diana 10 is a powerhouse among early 10-meter pistols. I remember velocities in the 450-475 f.p.s. range. Unfortunately, Diana put in seals made from a synthetic material that degraded over time and all of them have to be replaced at some point. New seals should last a lifetime.

I was told that this pistol shoots in the 370s with RWS Hobbys, so it may need a reseal. That’s an expensive proposition because of timing the Giss system, so I will hold off as long as possible. We will find out more when we test velocity.

Summary

That’s it for our first look. There is more to see before we get to velocity, and after that we get to see the accuracy. I can’t wait!

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

235 thoughts on “What’s it gonna be today?”

  1. BB,
    A few photos of that trip could’ve been nice; I love looking at old photos.
    Looky and even touchy but no takey home is pretty much what I’ve been doing lately. 🙂
    Fishy

    • Fish,

      I myself, being an old geezer, have always preferred a more svelte look. I am also one who feels form should follow function. This may sound contradictory, but not always.

      I really like the Galatian. I would have preferred if they had not went with the thumb hole stock, but they are trying to appeal to the American market and “we” want it to have pistol grip and be black.

      Most, but not all of Hatsan’s offerings are chunky, clunky looking things. It is as though there are two design teams at Hatsan. One is a bunch of young dudes who have seen way too many war and sci fi movies.

      The other is a group of geezers who look upon their creations as graceful ladies adorned with the finest of walnut that can be had. If she must wear the black of mourning, she is at least still graceful.

      This pistol is a slim, graceful gazelle in a world of pure function.

            • Fish,

              What I have been saying all along is there are more of these old gals looking for a good home. Some can be had for surprisingly little money, most especially at airgun shows. Three years ago at the North Carolina show I was offered one of these Diana air rifles for $70. She was kind of bedraggled looking, but she still worked fine. I turned her down as I already had my break barrel.

              /blog/2017/07/millita-breakbarrel-rifle-part-3/

              Of course, now I wish I had picked up that Diana. She would have been perfect to start some poor sod down that road. 😉

              • rr,
                still, for my taste, hatsans are good looking creatures. they have a powerful appeal. you look at a hatsan, and you know it’s a heavy weight boxer, not a skinny weak old cry baby.
                fish

                • LOL!

                  In one breath you are saying you would like a nice, easy shooting air rifle for plinking and in the next you want a Megalomaniac Super Dooper Atomic Ghetto Blaster.

                  OK dude. I have a RAW HM1000X in .357 with a gray laminate Sporter Stock that I would like to sell.

                  • lol,
                    i don’t have to buy everything i like. no happiness in possesions. i guess my generation had to learn to save some. but i’ve known to let go of my beloved $s on an item or two for my money pit hobbies.
                    at this point, we are just arguing on an unarguable matter, taste… i love the looks of hatsan pcps, that raw of yours, and german springers. i think marauder looks elegant while i find condor hideous. everytime i see a camaro i gag, but when i see a challenger, i say hell yea!
                    i dunno y, it’s just the way it’s i guess.

                    • Fish,

                      I do understand. You could probably not give me a Mattelomatic, but if you put a long rifle in my hands my knees will go weak and shaky.

                • lastly,
                  if you ever find another oldie like that at that price, pls let me know. i’d buy it just for the heck of it. i remember, less than a decade ago, turkish mausers, mosin nagants and such were on sale for only 75 bucks, and the genious here kept on changing his mind.

              • RR,

                Aside from the splendid airgun, that’s a very nice walnut plank on which it’s displayed.

                I have a friend who belongs to a wood collection hobby group. On ocassion he allows me to select some wood from his cast-offs. I’ve gifted two of our daughters carefully finished 1-½” thick, live edge walnut planks. One has become a very whimsical coffee table.

                Good wood is a joy all it’s own.

                Dan

                • Dan,

                  I too appreciate fine wood. Dave commented about the wood also. Here is my answer to him.

                  “LOL! That is my kitchen table. It is an eight foot long dining table made of nothing but walnut. The top is about three inches thick and the legs are true four by fours. It was all made from one tree cut down in this county and made by the local wood craftsman.

                  My wife jokes that I bought her the house so I could have the table.”

                  He builds kitchen cabinets and such for a living, but enjoys creating such beautiful things from fine woods.

                    • LOL! Be sure to NOT bet money on that. I remember when the Mattelomatic came out. I remember watching the US military trade in their battle rifles for that plastic and pot metal pop gun.

                      Do not get me wrong. I have always thought that was a dandy submachinegun, but a battle rifle?! Something I want to depend on in a war zone?! No thank you.

                      That Sam I am!
                      That Sam I am!
                      I do not like
                      Green eggs and ham!

        • No.

          They could build them like this. It is true that due to the possibility of law suits they must have safeties, cocking slot covers, etc., but they could still make theirs into some special eye candy.

          • RR,
            I actually remember mentioning before; I’d like to have new trend, where low powered elegant looking air rifles like your queen satisfies a niche – but no one was interested in that idea.
            Fish

            • Fish,

              These days most low powered airguns are of the 10 meter variety. It really was not until recent times that airguns started to become the powerful beasts they are today.

              The manufacturers are trying to sell to the powder burner crowd. I turned my back on those things over thirty years ago when I quit hunting for food.

              I still enjoy shooting though. That is why I have airguns.

              • RR,

                ” I still enjoy shooting though. That is why I have airguns. ” Yeah, that says it all eh? Will (definitely) second that!

                Have you ever had the chance to shoot a Weihrauch HW 100? Think that you would really like one of these classical beauties. I have some very nice airguns (AA, FWB, FX, Walther) and have to say that my HW 100s are my favorites. Well designed and made, superb triggers and very accurate. Have a .177 for general shooting an plinking and a .22 for general shooting, pesting and hunting – both are FAC power rifles. You had mentioned a Maximus a couple of times, a HW 100 is more expensive but it is a really nice shooter – the kinda rifle that makes you smile every time you pick it up.

                … I don’t hunt for food either (two fat deer in the front yard right now) but there is a pair of squirrels (being a nuisance) that are going to be invited for supper (nice tails for fly tying as well 🙂 )

                Cheers!
                Hank

                • Hank,

                  Those are real nice and I have often thought of getting one, but with the Maximus I can tinker with it and turn it into anything I want, including an 1 MOA, 100 yard shooter. The thought of building or modifying one or more air rifles to suit my shooting desires is a very appealing thought.

                  • RR,

                    Maximus is a fun-gun for sure.

                    Really like mine – its nice and light to carry around but needs a bit more heft to be steady. I cut up some maple (firewood) to make a new stock for mine. Need to bet my butt in gear if I want to finish that stock before winter (temperatures are below freezing most nights now) and the garage workshop is not heated.

                    Hank

                  • Deck,

                    Big brown trout are an hour and a half away 🙁

                    But there are lots of good sized Smallmouth Bass within 15 minutes from home 🙂

                    Humpies are great – kinda small for bass who prefer a mouse-sized fly but I catch a lot of panfish on them.

                    Hank

              • RidgeRunner,

                Say what?! “It really was not until recent times that airguns started to become the powerful beasts they are today.” Are you referring to the last decade? I won’t even comment on the Gifards or Girardoni of some Centuries ago.
                Some of us have been shooting accurate PCPs since the very early ’90s that could deliver 80-100 FPE in .25 caliber!

                I concur with the rest of your musings.

                shootski

                • Shootski,

                  The Giffards, the Girandonis and the other PCPs of their day were the toys of the wealthy and were really quite rare.

                  I was not referring to just the last decade, but of the time since the world really discovered airguns. The technology had finally developed to the point that the “common” man could afford one.

                  It was not until truly recent times that if you wanted a big bore air rifle, you had to buy and modify those wimpy Korean air rifles or you went to someone like Quackenbush or Barnes. I can remember John McCaslin and AirForce being dragged kicking and screaming into the world of .25 caliber and up. I can also remember talking to him in 2012 about what was to become the “Texan”.

                  This was before his “Escape” series came out, which I am sure you know was already being made for years by people using his previous models. He gives Ton the credit for creating such, but they are nothing more than a swapping around of parts already on hand. He had to have something new for The Shot Show that year.

            • Fish,

              The truth of the matter is, with a PCP airgun you need the barrel to be longer if you want more power. That is why the bullpup has become so popular of late. The marketeers are convinced that the buyers want short, compact airguns. To a point, they are right. So many people in the USA these days know of only one rifle, the Mattelomatic.

              Some of us though prefer the looks of the Daystates. We enjoy the long, slim, elegant lines of the Regal. The beautiful curves of the Wolf series is a joy to handle. We want eye candy. Martin Rutterford understood this and brought the elegance and quality of the Theoben line to the USA, where he created RAW. To this date, at least in my most humble opinion, his creations are the pinnacle. I have an HM1000X in .357. It is a beautiful 1 MOA at 100 yards air rifle.

              AirForce bought out RAW and has been trying to recreate it in the image of the Mattelomatic. To each his own, I guess.

              Fear not! Though AirForce now owns RAW, they do not own Martin Rutterford or his creativity. You can still have him build you one of the finest air rifles to date.

              https://airguns-usa.com/index.php

              • RidgeRunner,

                “The truth of the matter is, with a PCP airgun you need the barrel to be longer if you want more power. That is why the bullpup has become so popular of late.”
                I must agree that is true for now in most Big Bore offerings! I think we will be seeing changes to the long barrel formula soon however. I see the end of just upscaling to a real rethinking of how to get the impulse behind the bullet to be faster, more pressure and more consistent. Lots of ideas floating around about internal ballistics and airgun powerplant/action design…time will tell!

                We may all be happy to be able to shoot Peashooters all too soon!

                shootski

                • Shootski,

                  These seem to present possibilities here and look forward to them, however even with these innovations a longer barrel will increase even their power. I myself would really like to have a powerful carbine or a real short ‘pup, but there will always be the ‘long rifle’. 😉

                  • RidgeRunner,

                    Im on board with the longer barrel = more power too!
                    I keep thinking I should get a 22′, 23′, 24′ 25’+ n’ barrel from Dennis for my .575 Shortrifle…then it could be DAQ Longerrifle. Lol! I’m not all that certain I would like the imbalance nor the fast point ability for Wild Porkers.

                    shootski

  2. I understood the difference between a regular air pistol and a target pistol when I held that IZH 46. It’s the difference between night and day. I wonder if anyone has bought it yet? It’s at a great price!

    Brent.

  3. B.B.,

    Looks like you can remove the painted rear sight by loosening the set screws. You can the apply paint stripper then leave it in your tumbler to clean the surface before final prepping and painting with flat black spray paint.

    Siraniko

  4. Off topic, but what is the expected lifetime for the regulator in PCPs. Is that something that wears down with use or time? I’m curious in general, and of the Air Venturi Avenger in particular.

    • Whetor,

      There are many variables involved. Air pressure, usage, construction quality, materials, yadayadayada.

      In 2012 I bought an used AirForce Edge. It has a regulator. If I am not mistaken, it was one of the very first. BB now owns that particular Edge. To the best of my knowledge, that regulator has not been rebuilt.

      I now own an HM1000X in .357 with a regulator. I have replaced one of the o rings in it.

      Do not be afraid of a regulator. If it should fail, it is easy to fix. They are not magical beings that require the wave of a wand to make work. 😉

    • Whetor,

      The one in my Edge has lasted for 10 years. But I had one fail in a Korean PCP that I added it to in five years. The Edge reg is set for a small variation of pressure. The Korean gun was set with a larger one. That’s my experience.

      BB

        • Whetor,

          If you buy an aftermarket one, buy a good one like a Huma, not a Wang Po Industries special. A good quality regulator will hold the plenum pressure to a more stable constant, giving a much tighter velocity spread for your shots. The one on the Edge will hold the velocities within 1-2 FPS. The one on my HM1000X will hold to 3-5 FPS. These are built in, but a good quality aftermarket regulator will do the same. Daystate uses Huma. A good quality regulator will also have a quicker recovery time, although they also may need a break in period.

  5. BB,
    That is a really interesting first look and I’m looking forward to hearing more. Somehow the adjustable width front sight is the feature that intrigues me the most right now, although the grip that grips is a close second.

    Aside from all of that, I enjoyed the way you sketched out what the experience was like and set the stage with the details. For anyone who’s interested in writing a novel, November is actually National Novel Writing Month, and there’s a competition of sorts to help motivate anyone who wants to crank out 50K+ words towards a literary magnum opus during the month of November. Details at https://nanowrimo.org . I doubt I’ll have time to seriously try it myself, although I might set myself a lower word count goal.

    Fish and Gunfun1, I replied on blowguns under yesterday’s post.

  7. B.B.,

    I’ve never held, let alone shot, one of these, but I would jump at the opportunity if one ever presents itself. I do have and love shooting a Diana Model 72, which is a youth-sized air rifle with the Giss system. I’ll have to look it up in the Blue Book, but I believe it is a carbine version of the Model 6 or perhaps some other Giss Diana?

    It is one of the best shooters I have, absolutely inert as it fires.

    Michael

    • Michael,

      That seems to be a nice shooter from what B.B. said over here. /blog/2014/05/diana-72-youth-target-rifle-part-4/

      Just in case you missed his review, and there are links to the first 3 parts near the top.

      Mike

    • Michael,

      I tell you what. You look around and find a nice one of these things and shoot it for a while. Then I will trade you my Izzy for it. 😉

      By the way, normally my Izzy would be my next to last airgun that would go, the 1906 BSA being the last.

        • Michael,

          I would find that hard to believe. Well, let me rephrase that. The Izzy likely does have more recoil than the 72 as it has considerably more mass than the Izzy. As for the Diana 10, it jumps around, vibrates, etc. far more than the Izzy.

          • RidgeRunner,

            I really ought to shoot my 72 today to be able to say for certain, but my recollection is that one pulls the trigger through the first stage, stops at the second stage, snaps the metaphorical glass rod, and . . . nothing, just the pellet hitting the target. I recall an absolute absence of any sensation.

            I’ll check it out and report back.

            Michael

            • RidgeRunner,

              O.K. I just shot it three times and first, it is a bit louder than I remember. It is about as loud as a Feinwerkbau 300s. There is absolutely no sensation at all on the pistol grip. In the forearm there is, however, a very fast, very slight “pulse,” as B.B. sometimes describes the behavior of an especially smooth shooter. The pulse is a barely felt vibration. The rifle doesn’t seem to move in any direction.

              The trigger on mine is slightly heavier in the first stage than I remembered, but it is smooth. The second stage is crisp as can be. Cocking is very easy.

              Michael

              • Michael,

                That is awesome and I would really like to own one of those, except where do I draw the line.

                My Izzy trigger is VERY adjustable. As I have it set right now, you had better approach it VERY carefully. I think shoot, and it does. This is a SSP, not a sproinger. Incredible as it may seem, this is even smoother than your 72 or a 10…

                • RidgeRunner,

                  If you see one of these for sale, I say buy it. You will enjoy it for sure.

                  The smoothest shooting air gun I have is my Feinwerkbau 601, which is a single-stroke pneumatic. That really is just about inert. I understand a serious competitor can feel a tiny bit of recoil, but I can’t feel it. The modern Olympic PCPs have a recoil compensation mechanism to eliminate even that.

                  And the 600 series has four or so different adjustments for the trigger. I have mine canted for a lefty, and I’d guess the weight is maybe 4-6 ounces for the first stage and 8-10 ounces for the second stage. It definitely is a “think it off” second stage.

                  Michael

                  • I just counted the adjustments. The 1st step is to adjust 3 things: a) latitude b) height, and c) longitudinal axis. The second step is weight of first stage. The third step is for length of the first stage, and the fourth step is for length/weight of the second stage.

                    That’s 6 different adjustments! Yikes.

  9. B.B.

    When I bought my Diana/RWS 6G, I thought long and hard about getting the 10. I really thought that the rotating barrel sleeve would be a weak link and possibly the earliest failure point. Thus I went with the more straight forward 6G. At the same time that I ordered my pistol, my 3 year older brother ordered a FWB 65. I still have and shoot my pistol, my brother does not.

    Have a nice Blue Moon/Halloween weekend everybody!

    -Yogi

  10. BB,

    Oh man, what a pistol. I have always considered the Diana 10 to be the crème de la crème of the collectable air pistols. This and/or a 6M have been on the top of my list since I first heard of them. As it always seems to be the case, when I see one of these become available, my wallet will not allow me to obtain one. I would consider trading my Izzy for one as nice as this, minus the orange paint.

    I am so looking forward to “the rest of the story”.

  13. I have this same gun in my closet. Needs a rebuild. So there it sits. The pistol is in very good shape all except the plastic barrel shroud that is cracked and partially missing. I was thinking about just replacing the shroud with just a nice cocking grip like the one that goes on the TX 200 under lever. Then having it resealed. But probably looking at 200-250 dollars. Dunno. What do you think BB would it be worth it?

    • Shawn,

      I do not know what BB will tell you, but here is my 2 1/2 cents worth.

      If you have it resealed and a “new” shroud put on it, you might be able to make a little profit if you do not have too much invested at this point. A non stock cocking grip will greatly reduce its value.

      Now if you were to have it resealed and replaced the shroud and made the mistake of shooting it afterward, you would likely keep it and it would most definitely be worth the further investment. They are not quite as nice shooting as a modern 10 meter air pistol, but they are not far off.

    • Shawn,

      Yes, it’s worth getting the gun rebuilt. What a shame about the plastic shroud. I don’t know where you would find another one. Can the one you have be rebuilt in place — with JB Weld? I wouldn’t take it off unless absolutely necessary.

      Pyramyd AIR rebuilds this pistol. The real problem is timing the two pistons correctly so they cancel recoil. The work takes time which is why your estimate of $200 to 250 is right on.

      BB

      • There are a series of entries on another airgun blog where the writer reseals a Diana Model 10 – it takes a lot of work by the look of it. From what I can see there, the PyramydAir service charge seems extremely reasonable. I’m much more of a rifle than a pistol guy but I find the Giss system fascinating. If someone asked me to design a recoilless spring-piston airgun it’s probably the way I would try to do it. The FWB sliding mechanism on the other hand is one of those things that I never would have thought of in a miilion years on my own but when I first read about it the design struck me as brilliant. The Diana 75 is the one I want to get someday. Of course I also want the match rifles of pretty much every era up to the end of the SSP era from Weihrauch, Walther, Anschutz, FWB…. I love the looks of the Diana target guns from this era too – the Model 10 is a looker as well.

  14. The “lump” isn’t an aid to cocking. It’s a barrel weight. Few owners used it, and it’s presence made the shroud more prone to cracking than it already was.

    I have one of these, and it’s a great pistol. I prefer it to the FWB65/80.

  15. BB, This one’s on my bucket list. And the FWB65. A real nice airgun folks. If I had to choose, I would want to try them before I buy, because I think it would boil down to details, like side lever vs. breakbarrel for comfort, but I wouldn’t kick either out of bed for eating cookies. definately rebuild these ones if they need it, $200/250 seems fair.
    Thanks,
    R

  17. Many years ago I bought a new Diana 6G. it was not cheap but I fell in love with the sights, grips and especially its trigger. Besides, it is a looker with its blued steel and real wood. I am sure there are better ones, but this Diana was, and still is, the best spring pistol I have ever fired.

    Unfortunately the Giss system is a delicate mechanism, and it didn’t last. After a few years it started to randomly lose power which translated into vertical stringing. I sent it to be rebuilt and it came back working great once again.

    Fast forward until a couple of years ago when it started to be difficult to cock. It felt like something was binding inside. This time the guys at Pyramid Air did the work replacing the seals and – if I remember right – one spring. They did very well, once again it worked as new.

    I will admit that this articular specimen has been a bit troublesome and it is expensive to repair. However, all considered, it is well worth it! When I do my part, a predictable trigger pull is followed by a distinctive pulse that puts a hole in the right place of the target, and a smile in my face.

    My only complain is that my 70-year old eyes are not what that great with iron sights, but it is what it is.

    Henry

  18. “That story is worth reading if you have the time.”
    Hey B.B.,
    I took the time to read it…what a great story!
    I’ll have to try that on my anti-gun friends. =>
    Take care & have a blessed weekend,
    dave

  19. New Topic: BB: Is it worth a day’s blog or two to discuss THERMAL effects on airguns and ammo? Of course firearm owners know that HOT// COLD ammo and HOT barrels can really effect the gun’s performance. How about COLD BBs//ammo/pellets in ~warm guns, or vice-versa? I know from experience that the MANY Buck 105b guns I service for the local BSA council often have SAFETY MALFUNCTIONS when they get really hot. Sometimes cooling them down resolves the problem, or I have to replace the $4 trigger assembly… Barometric pressure//elevation? NOT so sensitive to humidity, correct?

  21. BB
    I’m late to the game and off topic as usual. However after 60 entries I think todays topic has come close to being exhausted, perhaps not?
    I set my brain on fire today. Read the P/A email advertisement and one rifle had a muzzle ‘brake’ on it. Now I always thought it was spelled ‘break’. I know I purchased one that used that word before. Turns out I was wrong but not totally. Now the analytical part of my brain kicked in, not the dead part caused by a stroke.

    The term muzzle brake was evidently used to describe the device that “Put the brakes on recoil”, for tanks initially, to reduce the distance the barrel recoiled. It eventually transferred to other high powered armament like the guns sitting on top of the tank. However it does this by ‘breaking’ up and redirecting the exiting gas from the front of the barrel.

    So … a device that is not intended to reduce recoil can really be called a muzzle ‘Break’ as it only breaks up the exiting gas for various intended reasons such as a radial compensator with holes drilled 360 degrees around that helps center the barrel under fire. HOWEVER since it also reduces the amount of exiting gas that leaves the front of the barrel by directing some of it outboard it now falls into the category of a ‘Brake’

    By the way most of these devices also fall under the term ‘compensator’ because they actually compensate for something, be it recoil, muzzle rise or flash reduction, in a firearm of course.

    Now technology has fine tuned muzzle brakes and created various designs for various reasons. Like a ‘chambered’ one that directs lots of gas out the side that is highly effective for powerful guns. The down side is that a lot of noise and burning gas debris is directed to the people around the gun. Especially with large open ports.

    So why am I here? Yesterday I stated that I was thinking about drilling some holes in the M1A1 fake flash hider to see if it would reduce the sound when fired only to find out today that muzzle brakes amplify the sound around the shooter 🙁 But then how did the compensator/muzzle brake on my AR6 PCP seem to get quieter?

    I think I figured it out. When you have an expansion chamber included, such as the space inside a muzzle ‘break’ or hollow fake flash hider the air pressure or sound wave (airguns now) is reduced and having lots of small ports reduces the crack to a bunch of small puffs. Similar to the science used in a sound moderator, or silencer but not on such a grand scale. In any case I stand corrected, ‘Brake’ is the word to use and I will use a small drill bit for lots of holes.
    Bob M
    PS … Any device that exhausts gas forward, as in angled ports or front facing ones I will never consider a muzzle brake, but compensator works for me.

  22. B.B.,

    Off-topic question: A multipumper has the pump handle open, but it refuses to close more than a little. What problem does this suggest to you?

    Thanks in advance,

    Michael

    • Michael
      Does it stay open after one pump or after many pumps?
      One pump could indicate a clogged port or broken part. Many may indicate you have exceeded the pumps ability to develop more pressure and have trapped air inside.
      Just a guess here.

      • Bob and shootski,

        I wrote the question just as I needed to tend to something else, so I kept it brief. It isn’t an airgun of mine but is for sale. (The price is much too high, even if it didn’t need work.) One detail I forgot to mention is that it is a tap-loader. The seller says the pump handle will not close but seems to have air pressure on it. He hasn’t tried to close it with a lot of force, but presumably some applied force. The action works. It cocks and dry fires. I assume there is some air in the tube. My initial thought was that a valve was seized by too much air pressure. Working the tap-loading port seems not to have helped.

        Michael

    • Michael,

      Bob M has done a pretty good long distance diagnosis.
      What pumper is this? Have you fired the airgun after this happens? If it fires then you are getting air into the valve with pumps. If not able to shoot then either the check valve is stuck or the valve face is gunked up with hardened lube or parts from the pumphead that need(s) to be cleaned out.

      What gun is it?

      shootski

  26. Wanted to post this yesterday but didn’t get the time.

    I ordered the Daisy 499 barrel the other day. Well they call it the shot tube assembly. Anyway 12 bucks plus 3 bucks shipping. Got it like in 3 days and it came through the postal service.

    And I need to say this before I forget. The lady answering the phone was on top of her job. She knew what I was after soon as I told her about the barrel. She said she actually use to build them before she went into customer service. That’s how its suppose to be done when you do a business. Well my opinion anyway.

    But check this out. They gave a test target with the barrel. I think its good for a bb gun.

    • Gunfun1,

      I hope that kind of knowledgable service never goes away! But I’m afraid I am NOT going to hold my breath for it.

      Hope the concept works! Heck you might be the father of the very most accurate BB gun ever! Just don’t overdrive those BB’s.

      shootski

    • Oh and I thought that was cool that Daisy gave the target with the barrel.

      Not even a gun I was getting. Just a barrel. They wanted to show they tested the barrel before it left the building.

      I totally appreciate that.

    • That is great service it sounds like Daisy has not been hurt buy the new owners.

      I second the others in voicing that I no longer give PA 5 stars on service and competitive pricing. Their emails are getting annoying. I have been checking on a high dollar scope that I ordered in July. Since then it has been a few days from being in stock for months. They have received other scopes from the company so they should know if it is even on their order. I ask what was up in the questions on the scope and no answer then they deleted my question then put it back still no answer and now deleted again. What really gets my goat is when I check out when it will be in stock they send me an email asking if I forgot something. I still have it on order from July 8. I have given them my loyalty for years. They don’t even keep records of all my past orders for easy reference luckily I have all the paper copies filled.

      Enough rant but I had come to expect better.

      • Don
        Yep I think Daisy is still on the right track.

        And ifi log onto my PA user account it has all of my orders logged that I ever made. Plus there is the quick order section where I can find a previous things I have ordered and click on them and order if they are in stock.

        Maybe you mean something else about keeping track of the order besides what I just mentioned.

  27. Shootski
    Probably not with the bb gun. All I hear all the time is it has probably already been done. And probably so.

    But that don’t matter to me. I’m doing it to see if I can.

    The way I see it is if it has been done already don’t talk about it. Show me and everybody else. Trust me it won’t hurt my feelings.

    Anyway. You say don’t overdrive those bb’s. Well you can say and show any info you want. But guess what. That don’t matter to me. I will try things to try to make the bb’s shoot accurately. That’s just how I am.

    And I’m not directing my comment at you. I just want to try for me. If it works or don’t, at least I was the one that tried. If someone has info about what they had happen I’m all for it.

    Ready or not! Get set! GO! 🙂

    • GF1,

      Received my 499 barrel also. Didn’t realize that was a test target rolled up and stuck in the muzzle. Not sure how they can do that for $12.

      I pulled out the old Crosman 1600 pistol the other day. After shooting it again and re-experiencing the double action trigger pull, I’m having second thoughts about a 499 barrel making an appreciable difference on this particular model. It also made me remember why I don’t have any love for BB guns. I’ll still endeavor to retrofit the better barrel, but my interest, weak to begin with I must admit, is waning.

      I also have to get Covid tested in an hour, so I think that’s probably affecting my mood a bit. For whatever that’s worth…

      • Derrick
        All I’m going to say about the covid test is pray’n for ya. I have to many thoughts about covid.

        And I’m like you about bb guns. They usually are not what I call accurate. But I keep hearing how the 499 is the stuff with bb guns.

        I had some conversations with Minute Of Something with how I’m going to do the barrel and in what guns.

        I’m really thinking out of all of them I chose the 1322/77 will be the one that makes something happen with the 499 barrel.

        All I can say is for now I’m only assuming. Won’t know anything for sure till the bb hits the paper. But still I’m excited to see what the results will be.

        And definitely post your results when you get there. I’m hoping somebody will get some good results. A accurate longer distance bb shooter will be a break through if it happens. I really am hoping deep down inside it works out.

        • I don’t have any Covid symptoms. An asymptomatic coworker tested positive, so I thought it would be a good idea. Wife is being tested right now.

          I’m stuck on the idea that we can just shoot lead round balls through stock 1377’s and likely see better long range results than a BB is ever going to deliver.

          • Derrick
            I can’t answer how I want to here on the blog about covid so all I’ll say is God be with you all.

            And about the 1377 and the lead balls. Maybe so. But a rifled barrel is not the best idea for balls from what I have seen.

            I can’t say right now because i haven’t seen any results with a 499 barrel in anything but a 499.

            Right now we just have to give the benefit of doubt until its proven it works. If it don’t I won’t loose no sleep but it’s keeping me occupied with something that interested me.

            Right now I can’t answer any question because I don’t know.

            But we are going to see one way or the other pretty soon.

            • GF1,

              I think that with steel balls that don’t engage the rifling, smooth bore may be better l haven’t tested it though. So I shouldn’t say. With black powder muzzle loaders and lead balls rifling is more accurate, I have seen that.

              Don

              • Don
                The way I see it is the smooth bore 499 works with the Avanti precision shot steel bb’s.

                I think with what has been proven with the 499 guns that the 499 barrel and bb combination is the way to start.

                • GF1,

                  PLUS!!!!,…. we know for fact that they do not loose any accuracy by going from 250-ish to 412 fps. So that is a start point right there.

                  It is a funky set up eh? Anyone would have figured the actual barrel to be much longer. I do assume that you got the barrel, the “coupler nut” and plastic funnel end as a unit eh?

                  Did you get them apart yet? As I recall,.. I could not get anything to budge/move. How does it attach to the barrel?

                  Pics?

                  Chris

                  • Chris
                    Mine came right apart. The black part is a collet and the aluminum piece is the locking nut.

                    You have to hold the black piece and turn the nut to the left..

                    If you hold the barrel and try turning the nut it probably won’t come loose.

                    But here is the black part and the nut.

                  • Chris
                    Here it is standing up.

                    And I have the 499 barrel at work with the 2240 barrel I’m going to use as a adapter sleeve.

                    Hopefully I can do the machine work tonight on the 499 and 2240 barrel.

                    And I’m going to start out with the 499 barrel on my 2260 and scoped.

            • GF1,
              Tore down and pulled the barrel from the Crosman 1600. Will need to either reduce the 499 barrel OD or open up the through hole in the Crosman shroud casting. Or both.

              Right now, I’m actually more curious as to the tolerances of the Daisy 499 barrel, ground shot and clearance vs. the Crosman. I highly doubt we have a probe and ring gage of the correct size on hand, but it would be interesting to air gage the 499 barrel.

              • Derrick
                That is a good idea about the air gauge. We had one at the other shop I worked at. I have used it for several things I have done in the past.

                Wish I still had access to it.

                Going to try to mess with my 499 barrel tonight when I get caught up on the other stuff going on.

                I’ll let you know how it goes.

            • GF1

              And this is going to be one of the most looking forward to reports in the last seven years of my reading comments on this blog. Think you know I have a hunch there are smooth bore accuracy surprises about to be discovered or rediscovered.

              Well we shall see thanks to you.

              Deck

              • Deck
                I’m excited too. And I hope your right.

                My next thought is I wonder what distance I’m going to start the test at. I think I’ll start at 10 yards. But I really want to start at 15 yards.

                I think for starters I will do both distsnces if I get any accuracy at 10 yards. That way I can see how much the group changes at 15 yards compared to what happened at 10 yards.

                • GF1

                  You may want to know that your creation is at least as accurate as a 499 at the standard 5 meters. Incremental distances makes sense even beyond 15 yards.

                  Let the fun begin!

                  Deck

                  • Deck
                    I think Chris was getting out past 5 meters with his modded 499 that is shooting faster than the velocity of a factory 499.

                    Hopefully I can get the barrel and sleeve done up at work tonight. Was busy again last night at work. Was kind of aggravated about that. Hopefully tonight I’ll get it done.

  28. BB,

    You really need to tell Pyramyd AIR to calm down! It is obvious that they must have hired some new folks in their advertising department or they have started listening to some spam generation company about their advertising. Recently my inbox is becoming flooded every day with Pyramyd AIR has just got this in or this is almost sold out or this is the deal of the century or if you do not buy from us today we will pull out all of your nose hairs.

    I went from getting one, maybe two a week from Pyramyd AIR to getting close to a dozen a day. I was to the point of deleting their emails without even opening them. It has become so bad that I have unsubscribed to their email. I do not want or need their spam.

    I do not know who is running the show up there, but they need to extract their head and take a good look around. If they continue in this manner, they are likely going to run some of their customer base off. There are better ways to attract customers than flooding their inbox with spam.

    • RidgeRunner,

      I must confess the other day i got my shipment from PA and the very next day received a WE MISS YOU email…Do they even KNOW WHO i am if they do that!

      Bad CRM Boss!

      shootski

        • Benji-Don,

          Sure looks like the folks in sales didn’t get to this page in the CRM Fast Start guide:

          “Don’t think of — or use — CRM as a standalone sales automation system. … ”

          How did the work at the cabin go? Hope the place is ship shape for the winter.

          I hope this Pandemic is over soon… didn’t realize that the 5 hour flight (33 hours of straight driving if the weather is perfect) was ever going to become this much of an issue. Too much reliance on 1st World thinking on my part!

          shootski.

          • Shootski,

            My second attempt to reply. You are up late. Yep the cabin is winterized. Had one pipe leak, fixed. Had another mystery leak turned out to be a rubber band under a toilet flapper valve duh. Wish I had time for shooting had three days of mild temperatures and dead calm, oh well. Split and stacked firewood for this winter. I still need to move the snow plow or dozer down the hill before the snow gets too deep or else I need to snowshoe in.

            Don

            • Benji-Don,

              After the few Trick or Treaters were gone with extra hour tonight I couldn’t help myself so got in my DrySuit, launched my Kayak, and did a two hour 99.9% Blue Moon paddle! Probably will be doing a bit more of that this Fall and Winter since the skiing here in the East usually is not great.

              Be well! Bed time for me…zzzz

              (s) hoot (with the Owls) ski

    • I would rather have a notification saying here is the code to get 30% off and free shipping on any order over $50.

      Otherwise yep it’s just clouding my time.

      Maybe this will help their marketing department. I just go through and delete them now before I even open them. Nothing worth while anymore. If I want to order I check for discount codes to save money.

      Telling me something is in stock doesn’t save me money.

      • I was notified at my request that AA 16 grain .22 pellets were available. I immediately restocked. Their sales folks are responsive. Not so much the repair department.

        Deck

        • Deck
          Right. I ask for notifications. That’s one thing but like the others replying PA has been sending lots of adds of the same over and over.

          I want discount codes and free shipping.

    • RR,

      It (was) a problem for me as well. Comments have been showing up on other sites too. I opted out. I do not want or need that.

      Yea,…. they might just want to back the wagon up, park it,.. and rethink this path.

      They think that I have never been here before every time I log in. I kind of? take offense to that after logging in here everyday to the blog for several years.

      Chris

    • RidgeRunner
      A big Ditto on that statement. If it ain’t brand new or on sale with free shipping or something equivalent in an outstanding deal I don’t want to see it. I already have a link to the New Products page on my home page.

      Emailed some diecast car companies a while back and told them to dump ” Constant Contact ” as their advertising company. P/A is getting just as bad. Sick of being asked to sign up again .. and again.
      Bob M

  29. Today’s fun.

    It’s windy as you know what today. So this is what I do on days like today.

    20 to 25 yards, Air Ordinance .22 SMG shooting semi auto as fast as I can pull the trigger off hand. 50 rounds. I almost chopped it in half.

      • Mike
        No ice in this one. I started out at 20 yards and the can got knocked out to a wood back stop I had out at 25 yard with about 10 shots. The remaining 40 shots was with it resting against that back stop. So it was locked in and wasn’t moving.

        I just kept popping it. Fun, fun, fun. 🙂

          • Mike
            I can change how far I press the trigger and it will go into full auto when I want real easy.

            But yes I like to control the shot by shooting semi auto. But it’s nice to know the full auto is ready at anytime .

            Sometimes I will pop off some single shots then go full auto a bit then back to semi auto. More fun that way to me.

            • Gunfun1,

              That is cool, I was thinking that full auto was a setting.

              Very nice that full auto is just a little more pull on the trigger to activate.

              By the way those copper clad pellets are looking just as good as other premium pellets like JSB, heck they are H&N so what would you expect.

              Mike

                • GF1,

                  Good question, do not know the answer to that. Copper is a soft metal but harder than lead and copper plating is very thin so I do not think that it would make them harder.

                  They are kinda slippery in the fingers, I do not think they have any lube on them but they are slippery like small pieces of Jewelry.

                  Mike

  30. B.B.,

    I don’t know if you caught my question about a non-working multipump above, but it seems to have created a small amount of curiosity as I did not name it. A hint is that it won’t pump. Another hint is that while a multipumper, it is not quite a Benjamin. ;^)

    Care to answer the riddle?

    Michael

  31. BB
    I have been waiting for a good functioning powerful semi-auto PCP like the Marauder for a long time. Would have ordered one already if it were not for the hint of a possible Armada version.
    Now I have an Evanix Speed but its more of a novelty with a battery also have a Hatson Barrage but it looks like a space alien weapon. I can take it or leave it for another and that would be a semi-auto Armada. A built in tri-burst selector would end my search … for a while anyway,
    I already have two side lever Marauders but I am into black AR guns, for the most part. Some of you can probably tell from the conversions I did to them using an RAI chassis, ‘Full Dress’ and ‘Heavy Metal’. A hangover from all the fun I had with real steel I guess.
    Anyway I’m looking for some information about any possible release date so I don’t have to butcher up an RAI chassis to make my own with the semi-auto. If it’s even possible?
    Please pass the word if you get some heads up info about it.
    But then again I will probably be getting six emails from P/A for pre orders if they plan to release it.
    Bob M

    • Bob,

      The manufacturers give out release dates and the websites update them. Look at the fiasco of the Hammer that was due out in March. Yeah, but March of what year? It finally came out and then was withdrawn again. Pyramyd AIR is sometimes at their mercy.

      BB

    • Bob M,

      Ok, you like the Mattelomatic. I get it. Like I told Derrick, you could not give me one. I am not really interested in semi or selective fire airguns either.

      However, you are mentioning side lever Marauders. That has my full attention. Who what when where why?!

      • RidgeRunner,

        Mattelomatic are available to be used as single shot only!
        The longest rounds ensure that! They are VERY ACCURATE = Interesting. Ridge you really must get over your aversion to the M-16 and realize that it was the bean counters (cheap plastic formulations and no Chromium barrels) and the I-D-10-Tango-S who sent the substandard (actually out of specification) cartridge to ‘Nam that made Stoners marvel not work well for a time. You dont want to run out of time and never get to enjoy one of the truly fine AR-15 VARIENTS.

        Take it from a converted Hater.

        shootski

        • Shootski,

          ROTFWL! My friend, there is nothing to me that is positive concerning the Mattelomatic. When they were still pretty new on the seen, I had a Springfield/Savage bolt action rifle of the same cartridge. We used hand loads and it was a dandy varmint rifle, but I grew up with the .30-06 and .308 and their variants and you are never going to convince me that the plastic and pot metal pop gun is worth owning. I would rather own a good quality .22 LR than it.

          To each his own. I have owned many different much better quality firearms and airguns than that thing. The Mattelomatic is not for me.

          • RR,

            Like anything,… you sink enough money into it and,…… ? Or not.

            Like them or not,.. Shootski probably has a good idea of what can be done with the platform.

            Chris

          • RidgeRunner,

            We ran out of REPLY ammo in our exchange above: “What did they do in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s?”. Well they used long barrels to makeup for slow burn powder in weak (metallurgically) metal barrels. Or do you mean shooting things with those over long rifles. I do like how they look and think they make great wall hanger specimens as well as great movie stars in the hands of folks in Buckskins. But i think if i was in a skirmish back then with a modern and up-to-date Stoner with 8 30 round magazines against the Kentucky and Brown Bess equiped troops it would be a one person opportunity at making history.

            I will breath better now and never lose another moment of rest in trying to bring you into the fold…. Some things were NEVER meant to be! Lol!

            shootski

  32. BB
    Point well taken. Thanks for the info. I guess patience is the key in this hobby. Seems airsoft companies have an even a bigger problem.

    I waited months for some high end airsoft like the DSR-1 Advanced Bullpup Sniper Rifle ( now discontinued ) and CheyTac M200 Custom Sniper Rifle. They come and go with changes in companies. Waited even longer for CO2 conversion kits.
    I think they use some unobtanium in building them and run out occasionally. Either that or the airgun market, especially the high end stuff, is really smaller than we think on a global scale and they wait for demand to build up before a production run begins.
    I envision marketing reps all over the world stepping outside wetting their finger and holding it up into the wind. But more than likely they look for the reaction at gun shows and … Oh No … isn’t the Vegas gun show canceled this year for Covid? Patience.
    Bob M

    • Bob
      I really want one ofthe Marauder semi auto guns. I like semi and full auto guns.

      Right now I’m waiting for more reviews about them to see how they are working out.

      One thing is I really don’t want a .22 caliber version. I want a .177 or .25 caliber version.

      But will see. Maybe I’ll get the .22 version if they pan out. We’ll see.

  33. B.B. and Readership (also PA Upper Management,)

    Today’s PA email: “Dia de Los Muertos is about celebrating life and death.”. It is also called: Allerheiligen (All the Hallowed) for those who remember their Latin: Festum Omnium Sanctorum.

    Yup!

    I unsubscribed today on the Day of the Dead!

    shootski

  34. Fish,

    OK. Over the last few weeks it has been discussed to death. What kind of air rifle does Fish want, need or desire?

    As I see things, there is no one air rifle that will do it all. It just ain’t gonna happen. One second you want a plinker and the next you want a howitzer. Well, it is going to take at least two air rifles to keep you happy for a while.

    Fortunately for you, there is one airgun manufacturer that makes both and both are the crème de la crème. The company is AirForce and the two air rifles are the Edge and the Texan LSS.

    /product/airforce-edge-front-rear-sights?m=1575

    /product/airforce-texan-lss-457-cal-w-carbon-fiber-tank?m=5054

    The Edge is offered in Red or Blue. The sights are superb or you can remove them and use a scope. I predict that you will soon become bored with shooting this air rifle. It is that good. If you miss, it is you.

    As for the Texan LSS, it is offered in any color you desire as long as it is Black. It has the power, range and accuracy to take up to and including bison.

    I personally would not get rid of my “collection”, but would be quite content with these two for my modern air rifles.

  36. Ok Guys

    Ridge Runner
    Now I know you love traditional rifles and that’s fine. I like them as well. I like all kinds of firearms and airguns.
    Each has its place and use and as mentioned “No one, (or type) rife (or handgun) fills every need.”

    I don’t know why you have bad vibes over ‘Matelomatics’ however I’m sure what ever it is has been sorted out by now. Ever shoot an HK91 with wood furniture? Unless you just don’t like the looks? They do have that industrial look for sure.

    Do you consider the single shot Armada a Matelomatic, or an Evanix Speed? Is it rapid firing that turns you off? Most can fire a single shot and also incorporate many accommodating features traditional rifles can’t, at least not so simply.
    Other than pleasing esthetics I see no down side to black guns.

    Gunfun
    OK you got me. No side lever on a Marauder. My mind wanted to say side lever bolt action but it never translated to print.
    Worst part is that I forgot I actually have 4 of them. Two Armadas, a Magpull and regular one 22, 25 and two Marauders, wood and synthetic stocked 22s. They went into the RAI chassis. But I can always return them to their original stocks if I have a Ridge Runner moment 😉 Hang in there good buddy, it’s all fun !
    Bob M

    • Bob,

      I have a .25 M-rod in an RAI with a nice FAB-defense 6 position w/cheek riser and fore grip. UTG fore and pistol grip. IF,… ever interested,.. let me know. I only mention since you are a fan of the platform.

      Chris

      • Chris
        I know, I pointed you in the direction of that FAB stock. Let me think on it a bit. If and when I get a semi-auto that would make 6. That’s pushing it, even for me. Still have the original stock to go with it? Wood or synthetic?

        • Bob,

          Just tossin’ it out there for ya’. 😉 The stock is synthetic, never used. It is a Gen. 2. The only thing that I ever did was a stronger hammer spring that I got from GF1. 10# to 12#? Not sure. The best it has ever done is 7 of 10 shots at 13/16″ at 100 yards. Never been able to do it again,.. but I was shootin’ a bunch at the time. Original owner.

          Chris

          • Chris
            And the RAI stock, second slimmer gen ? Not the TERYX first gen?
            He might discontinue the stock, reason I’m considering it. I know you have some money in it.
            Need to exchange email address some how.

            • Bob,

              Yes, the RAI and not the TERYX. I tried to find the receipt, assuming I ever got one, but could not find it. I did find some notes that said I ordered everything on 4-16-16.

              As for exchange,… use the typical 3w’s, then (cp) and the an (8) followed by an (a) and then the word (sushi) at that (yahoo) site dot com. Skip the (). Try that. Use Bob from PA in the heading. Let me know when you try it and I will check to be sure it does not end up in the spam.

              I have the clip P/W add on fronts with rubber grips. The RAI offset. UTG bi pod up front, fat UTG grips front and rear. I even have a new RAI folder. It is not on it now as I did not like the slop. Looking forwards to at least chatting a bit.

              Chris

    • GF1
      Another screw up.
      Side lever bolt action is not the right thing. That is exactly what it does not have. Guess I just mixed words and wanted to say side handle bolt action. Had better days …

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