Hatsan Flashpup.
This report covers:
- The test
- Silence!
- Crosman Premiers
- Adjusted the scope
- H&N Baracuda Match 4.52mm heads
- JSB Exact Heavy
- JSB Exact RS
- Discussion
- Summary
Today we look at a second Hatsan Flashpup precharged pneumatic (PCP) air rifle in .177 caliber. You will recall that in the first one the pellets were hitting both sides of the muzzle cap. I’m assuming the velocity with this one will be close to the first one, so I’m jumping straight to mounting a scope and testing the accuracy at 10 meters. I need to make sure the rifle is capable of moving on.
The test
I first filled the rifle to 200 bar. I shot the Flashpup off a sandbag rest from 10 meters. That’s close for a PCP, but I wanted to get the scope on target before moving farther from the target. I shot 10-shot groups with each pellet and I used the same pellets that were used in Parts 3 and 4 with the other rifle.
I did shim the scope for today’s test because the other rifle that also mounted it was shooting low. I usually expect an air rifle to be a drooper and shim the scope anyway, but the Hawke 4.5-14X42 Sidewinder scope came installed in the mounts without a shim and I didn’t change anything for the first rifle. I also did not change it during that test, but since today was a brand new rifle I decided to shim the scope first before mounting it.
I sighted-in with 10.5-grain Crosman Premiers. The first shot from 12 feet told me the pellet would be on the target paper at ten meters. I used three more of these same pellets once I backed up to ten meters to refine the zero. Then I started the test with this pellet.
Silence!
I have to admit that this air rifle is as quiet as they come. I doubt it can be heard 100 feet away, and if it is heard it won’t sound threatening.
Crosman Premiers
Ten Crosman Premier heavys made a group at 10 meters that measures 0.582-inches between centers. In Part 3 ten of the same pellet Made a 2.067-inch group at the same distance and in Part 4 with the silencer guts out of the shroud 10 made a 0.55-inch group. Since we know the pellets were hitting the muzzle cap in Part 3 that test is invalid, but the Part 4 test stands. So it’s 0.55-inches from Part 4, against 0.582-inches in this test. That’s close enough to say that the pellets from this Flashpup are not hitting the muzzle cap. On the other hand, the accuracy is not good. I will have something more to say about that at the end of today’s report.
The Flashpup put 10 Crosman 10.5-grain Premiers into a 0.582-inch group at 10 meters.
Adjusted the scope
This group was a little to the left of the center of the bull so I adjusted the scope 6 clicks to the right.
H&N Baracuda Match 4.52mm heads
The second pellet I shot was the H&N Baracuda Match with 4.52mm heads. In Part 3 the other Flashpup put 10 of these into a 0.475-inch group at 10 meters. I didn’t shoot this pellet in Part 4.
Today the new Flashpup put 10 Baracuda Match pellets into a 0.511-inch group at 10 meters. That’s pretty close to what this pellet did in Part 3, so I will say that it’s probably a better pellet for the Flashpup. But it still isn’t accurate.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.52mm heads made a 0.511-inch group.
JSB Exact Heavy
The third pellet I shot was the 10.34-grain JSB Exact Heavy. In Part 4 ten of them went into 1.677-inches at 10 meters. In Part 3 ten made a 0.898-inch group. Today the new Flashpup put ten into a 0.715-inch group. That’s the best group with this pellet so far but it still isn’t a good one for a PCP at 10 meters. And note that it went back to the left, but I didn’t adjust the scope.
The Flashpup put ten JSB Exact Heavys into a 0.715-inch group at 10 meters.
JSB Exact RS
The last pellet I shot was the JSB Exact RS. Ten of them went into 0.772-inches at 10 meters. It’s also to the left of center.
Ten JSB Exact RS pellets made a 0.772-inch group at ten meters.
I will add that this pellet was much louder than the first three. No doubt it was breaking the sound barrier.
Discussion
I know these groups don’t look like much for a PCP. I also know that I was shooting fine on this day. And after the shooting there were no streaks of lead on the inside of the muzzle cap.
I did notice something. Look at the first group. The first pellet is in the white at 9 o’clock and the rest are to the right of that. Look at the last group The final six shots are all together and higher than the first 4 shots. Could it be that the Flashpup is extremely pellet picky and wants to only shoot one kind of pellet at a time? In other words each pellet needs a short break-in before it settles down. That sounds strange, but when I back up to 25 yards it should be easy to find out if it’s true. I’m currently pondering how best to test that.
Summary
This Hatsan Flashpup is a strange little PCP. It’s sized nice, but cocking it is a task that requires the gun to be taken off the shoulder. It’s about as quiet as airguns get unless the pellets break the sound barrier. Whatever the case, we will look at it at least once more from 25 yards.
B.B. It seems like it’s time to throw that towel. And to be fair to Hatsan their small carbine Jet II looks much more interesting.
I also wish we could see some accuracy testing on that Omnia.
A very good day to all of you.
Bill,
I admit this test almost convinced me to quit, but I did see something in this rifle. I’m curious to see whether it’s real.
As for the Omnia — tomorrow.
BB
BB-
There was a lot of buzz when these came out, mostly from folks excited to see a .25 bullpup offered under $400.
I bought one in .177 and found a number of reviewers who absolutely loved these guns and were showing great accuracy but they all advised to clean the scuzzy barrel, back the hammer spring way off, and shoot heavy pellets.
My gun tightened up significantly. I get the best accuracy out the JSB 13.4gr Monsters. I have even shot some good groups with Nielsen 15gr slugs.
I have to admit that were I shopping for a bullpup today with the same budget, the Flashpup would sit a lot lower on the list below the new Avenger and Aircuda bullpups. It’s a tough market for a gun without ALL of the bells.
When changing ammo, I have always thought you needed to shoot a few rounds of the next pellet to get the bore seasoned before shooting for score.
It is something I have always done with pellet guns and powder burners, especially when I was reloading all my own stuff and load development.
That’s the way I learned from my dad, so I have always done that.
I thought everyone did that.
Just like tapping the turrets on the scope after adjusting them, just in case there is any stiction…
Doesn’t everyone do that?
Ian..
Ian
The things you mention are common knowledge here, especially since B.B. himself pointed out, several times through the years, the necessity of “seasoning” the bore…
Ian
Yes, always unless the ammo switch showed no need for it. This sometimes happens when switching JSB pellets to or from Air Arms pellets of the same type and weight. Even then the POI may be different.
Deck
B.B.
To heck with Pyramid Air’s 10 for 10. We should just send our new air rifles to you to test them!
So the moderator does not moderate at supersonic speeds?
-Y
Yogi,
The moderator does moderate at supersonic speeds. The issue is it does not slow the pellet down below supersonic speeds. The moderator will only contend with the “muzzle blast”, not the “sonic boom” of the projectile.
Tom,
Either there is a diamond in the rough or you are just giving the Hatsan more rope go hang itself. I look forward to the 25 yard test.
Siraniko
😛
Siraniko,
I’m looking forward to it, too.
BB
BB,
Personally, there are too many “better” designed ‘pups out there for me to settle on one that has all of the issues of a “first generation” ‘pup. It seems the only thing this one has going for it is the price. Perhaps there is a pellet out there that this ‘pup really likes, but you still have the issues of a “first generation” ‘pup.
Again, it is a personal thing, but I would rather pay extra for the cocking lever to be up where it belongs than settle for anything that awkward to shoot. It does not even have the redeeming quality of not being pellet picky.
P.S.
Discussion
… And after the shooting there were no steaks (streaks) of lead on the inside of the muzzle cap.
R. R.
Pups either semi auto or opposite of the trigger hand operated bolt. Period. And since the trigger must use those bars to engage I have come to prefer compact designs with folding stocks. AEA HP PLUS SS is always in my list.
Bill,
I am not a speed shooter and have no experience with the cocking lever on the “opposite side” and my experience with semi rifles has been too many missed shots which precludes me from a semi. This is a “to each his own” moment. My preference is to slow down and make the first shot count.
R. R.
I obviously didn’t make myself clear.
Those two “must” for me have only to do with not changing the grip while shooting in case of multiple shots, which are the norm for most of us I believe, either trying to group on Olympic paper targets or plinking. Rarely even during hunting. I certainly didn’t have speed shooting in mind.
Bill and Ridge runner, funny you should mention the HP-SS plus.
I did some work for a guy and he paid me with one in .22 caliber.
I am about 2000 rounds into it so far, the previous owner says he put about 100 rounds through it before he lost interest.
They are not without their problems.
The valve poppet broke 250 rounds in, I ordered a replacement, but a friend made me one that is much stronger than the factory one.
It is basically a piston driven semi auto, kinda like an AK, as the gas exits the barrel it hits the first suppressor baffle, and is directed rearward where it hits a piston that is driven rearward to cycle the action.
It was severely over gassed when i got it, i reduced the transfer port to where it still cycles reliably, I only lost about 20fps, but doubled my shot count.
No reliably issues, it’s a fun gun, but you go through a lot of pellets very fast.
Since its not carried by Pyramyd I will probably not do an actual review of it.
Below is the factory valve stem, and the replacement made from aluminum and delrin, with a stainless steel rod.
the old one
The new one
Ian
Thank you for this informal presentation of the AEA. One more thing if you please, what about accuracy?
It only has a 10 inch barrel, and the longest they put in a semi auto at this time is 13 inches.
It is a solid 50 yard gun, and it will reach out to 75 with no issues, I can reliably hit a 2inch by 4 inch man shaped steel silhouette (1/10 scale approximately) at 75 yards.
Shooting speed silhouette it is a killer as your max range is 55 yds.
Bill please email me at 45bravoairguns@gmail.com.
Ian.
RR,
Well, okay, you’re right. But there weren’t any steaks on the inside of the cap, either! 😉
BB
You mean there was not even a T Bone?
I’d be inclined to give the barrel a good clean. It can hardly make things any worse!
Ade,
I’ll do that.
BB
B.B.,
A few observations after re-reading most of the previous Parts:
From Part 1 “Two circular magazines and a single-shot adaptor come with the rifle, and I will test it both ways.”
How are you testing?
Are the magazines and adaptor new ones that came with the replacement rifle?
Is the optics Rail front Strut touching the barrel/shroud?
Are you using an anti-cant level?
Should you perhaps try some much heavier projectiles?
With the size of the “groups” at 10 (as you know already) i wouldn’t be impressed with them from a break barrel spring powerplant; even in my Dark Sider hands!
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
A few Blogs back, How Far?, I noted some guy named Tom Gaylord asked how close the LRF he was reviewing could range.
That piqued shootski’s curiosity since i didn’t know for a fact even the approximate distance. shootski however had a educated guess that it would be some multiple of the operating wavelength multiplied by the pretty fast clock rate and the required sample rate; but that is still just an educated guess.
A little research and I found that a great deal depended on PRICE; who would have guessed! Turns out most affordable LRF units can accurately range LASER reflectivity from about 4.5 -10 yards/meters. Maximum accurate range is confined to some percentage of their advertised MAXIMUM range.
Much of it depends on the ranged objects reflective surface quality and the algorithm(s) used to validate the return energy, the optical, and build quality of the instrument.
shootski
B.B.
You have 2 choices, send it back again for another one; or detune it so it shoots in the 800-900 range. No faster…or you could “cheat” and try some slugs in the gun?
-Yogi