Today reader Ian McKee, whose blog handle is 45Bravo, tells us about his experience testing the new 177-caliber Benjamin domed pellet. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, Ian
Testing the new Benjamin domed pellets
by Ian McKee
This report covers:
- Giss recoilless system
- Diana model 10
- The “bump”
- A surprise
- The Hy Score 816
- I made an oops!
- My thoughts on the pistol
- Summary
Today’s report is revisiting two vintage air pistols that have been previously reviewed in this blog. The Hy Score 816 (a Diana Model 6 by another name) that was covered in 2018, and the Beeman 900 (a Diana Model 10 that was rebranded by Beeman) and was covered in 2020. Both pistols use the Giss contra-recoil system of two pistons traveling in opposite directions to make the pistol recoilless.
Giss recoilless system
If you are not familiar with the Giss system of making a spring-powered airgun recoilless, here is a very short video with a cutaway pistol showing the system in operation.
We will be testing these two vintage pistols with the new Benjamin 10.5 grain, die-sorted .177 caliber dome pellets.
In the initial tests BB only shot five-shot groups because of the accuracy potential of the target air guns. I am nowhere near the ten meter pistol shot that BB is, so I don’t have to worry about the accuracy potential of me making the holes too close together, so I shot ten-shot groups.
Because I do not have the extensive repertoire of pellets at my disposal that BB does, to see if the pistols were still shooting at their previously tested velocities. I just used pellets I had on hand that matched the weight of the one he used in velocity testing (close to the same velocity is good enough for me.)
Diana model 10
I’ll start with the Diana model 10. This one is labeled a Beeman model 900 but it’s the same airgun. Let me preface this section by saying when BB tested this pistol in 2020, he admitted he was having an off day in shooting.
The Beeman 900/Diana Model 10 is a good looking airgun, and FEELS good in the hand.
We can all have off days, too much caffeine, blood sugar a little high or low, or you’re just not in the mental mindset you need to be for precision shooting that day, there are many factors that can contribute to an off day.
The “bump”
Also, when I picked up the pistol for testing BB told me there was just a little “bump” when firing, I lubed the pistol and adjusted the timing to remove the bump. What I mean by timing is the two pistons separating at exactly the same time. Watch the video.
In 2020 the Diana model 10/Beeman 900 averaged 444 f.p.s. with a 12 f.p.s. spread with RWS R10 match 7-grain ammo. The only 7-grain ammo I had on hand was the RWS Hobby pellet, and, like BB mentioned in the original review, they did go slower than the RWS R10s. In fact, they went 47 f.p.s. slower. The high was 397 f.p.s., and the low was 382 f.p.s. with a 15 f.p.s. spread over five shots. I venture to say the pistol is still in good shape.
[Editor’s note: This can happen when two different chronographs are used on the same gun and pellet. The gun is probably shooting the same as before, our chronos just don’t agree.]
I took several practice shots to get back into the mindset of 10 meter iron sight accuracy.
Ten of the new Benjamin 10.5-grain domes had a high velocity of 322 f.p.s., a low of 305 f.p.s. The average was 315 f.p.s., with a spread of 17 f.p.s. They loaded snugly — not too hard, not too loose.
With the pistol firmly resting on a bag supporting the entire weight of the pistol and at a measured 10 meters fired indoors, 10 of the new Benjamins went into a group measuring 16mm/0.63-inches between centers and we are off to a good start.
The new Benjamin domes can shoot! Ten are in 16mm/0.63-inches between centers.
A surprise
I have been tinkering with making a 3D printed Picatinny mount to fit the Crosman MkI and MkII air pistols. My bases still allow you to use your iron sights, if you remove the red dot. The base requires no permanent modifications to the gun, and is easily installed or removed. It is still a work in progress, but I slightly modified the design to fit the Model 10 pistol.
Not historically accurate or allowed in competition, a dot sight sure helps reduce the mental fatigue associated with recreational precision shooting.
I installed an inexpensive red dot sight, using this setup, 10 shots went into 10.5mm/0.41-inches. While not a huge increase in accuracy, I will take it and the ease of use.
A little better accuracy, but much less mentally taxing than iron sights.
The Hy Score 816
Up next is the Diana Model 6 that uses the same internal Giss contra-recoil reduction system as the Model 10 above, just in a different grip arrangement and trigger setup.
The Diana model 6 is an informal target pistol that brings a lot to the table.
As BB discussed in the 2018 blog, the Diana model 6 trigger is super light, and somewhat mushy. I shot several groups with other pellets before the test to get acquainted with the trigger. I soon found it to be predictable, you just have to learn to feel where stage two is.
In 2018 the Model 6 tested between 420 and 431 f.p.s. with 7-grain RWS Hobby pellets. Today, with RWS Hobby pellets it was turning 399 f.p.s. to 419 f.p.s., a difference of 20 f.p.s. The first shot was low at 399 f.p.s., then it went high to 419, and stabilized in the middle with the last shot exiting at 412 f.p.s. So it’s not too far from where it was with BB.
The 10.5-grain Benjamin domes loaded slightly loose. They didn’t fall into the barrel, but they required no pressure to seat flush. Being heavier the Benjamin pellets greatly reduced the velocity of the Model 6, with a high of 325 f.p.s., a low of 309 f.p.s., and an average of 315 f.p.s. with a 16 f.p.s. spread. The Model 6 also has a noticeably louder muzzle report with the Benjamin pellets than other pellets. I don’t know if it’s the loose pellets, the heavier weight, or a combination of the two.
I made an oops!
In BB’s test, he commented that the front sight was not the best shape for an ideal sight picture for target shooting. I had measured the front sight and 3D printed a replacement that was better suited for a precision sight picture.
The factory insert is on the right, the first one I printed was too tall and is in the middle. The one on the left is the one that works.
I accidentally made the first sight insert too tall (oops number one), and that pushed the groups lower on the paper. So I had to print another with the correct height. It takes two minutes to 3D print an insert and uses about four inches of filament. That means it’s cheap.
The first group was about 45mm/1.75-inches below the center of the bull, and was partly off of the target paper. And, as you may have noticed from the photos, I hung the target paper upside down, which was oops number two. The group was also along a horizontal line with three pellets in a tight group on the left.
Three in a group on the left, then a horizontal line, and the rest off the paper.
I realized at this point the front sight height issue, and the horizontal line I attribute to concentrating on the bull, not the sights.
I printed a second sight insert the same height as the factory sight, so no rear sight adjustments.
Ten Benjamin domes went into a 26.5mm/1.04-inch group that was a little horizontal, and I dropped the first shot as I was not ready for stage two on the trigger. If you take out the dropped shot, the group is 22mm/0.87-inches wide with 4 pellets clustered in a tight group.
I still had some concentration issues, but at 22mm/0.87-inches between centers it’s better than the first group.
My thoughts on the pistol
I think the Hy Score 816 may be a Jonah, as BB and I both suffered concentration issues while shooting the pistol. (A Jonah is a person or object that brings bad luck to those around them).
The pistol feels good in the hand, the bore axis is higher than the other pistol. But when it fires, you feel the pellet leaving the barrel, and hear the mechanics fire, but with no mechanical movement from the gun.
Summary
Overall, in these two target pistols, the new 10.5 grain Benjamin domes shoot pretty well. Although the lower velocity does dictate a sight adjustment from where these airguns were zeroed with lighter pellets. So far the new .177-caliber Benjamin dome pellets seem to be a winner! Now to test them in more airguns.
Shoot safe, and have FUN!
Ian
PS.
When I retest any of BB’s past blogs with the new Benjamin domes I think I need to just test one airgun at a time as testing two target guns is both hectic and mentally taxing. It means keeping the data separate and maintaining the level of concentration needed for proper sight alignment.
Ian,
Great report, nicely done; I especially enjoyed the video you put in of the Giss system in action! 🙂
Keep up the good work,
dave
Ian,
Forgive me for jumping in off topic. I have been waiting for tonight’s blog to post some shooting results, or something like that. I finally shot my Crosman Mag Fire Ultra and BM8. Very disappointing event.
I never sat down and tried to see how accurate a break barrel rifle could be. Got the bench, got the rifle rest.
Now I know why I prefer Pumpers, CO2 and PCP’s … AND Plinking or Pesting.
Spent over an hour setting up the bench and target, leveling and preventing things from sinking in mud. Then I had to learn where to sit and how to get comfortable holding the rifle.
I learned a lot today and have gained a lot of respect for target shooters. I experienced just about every problem that will affect the accuracy of a break barrel, especially somewhat powerful ones. And more.
Had to pick up 199 pellets off the ground after I bumped the shooting bench, the tin slid off.
Can’t just put the rifle on the rest line it up, aim it and shoot. You can’t put it back in the exact place after each cocking and reload when the stock is tapered. So I disconnected the rear support. Need more experience with it to figure things out. I had no idea where to set the rifle on it for best performance. That will require trial and error, for each rifle. The mount is very grippy and I was never sure it was letting the rife function in an Artillery style hold so I placed my hat over it. For that matter, I believe it will take hundreds of rounds to determine just the right place and how to hold it for the best shooting results, on or off palm.
Learned to never wear a soft puffy nylon jacket. The stock never stays in place on your shoulder.
Now I have no problem getting a head shot on a pest at 45 yards with my FX PCP but I had a real hard time keeping a group together at 10 meters with these break barrels. The triggers were horrible. I never knew when they would break, and they hardly ever felt the same. No real second stage hold. As is anyway.
Without finding the preferred hold, trigger pull, best pellet, learning to adjust to its recoil, you can never determine its true accuracy. Half of my shots were unplanned because of unexpected trigger release.
The Mag Fire was a bit rough and the BM8 was too easy to pull.
I used one scope for both and did not sight it in. Just picked a point to shoot to and let them group where they wanted to, for now. Had a separate target just to identify group positions, and scope reference. Cocking both was about the same, not too hard, but far from easy. No time for scale or sighting in.
I will need a lot more practice and getting to know these rifles if I expect any more accuracy. Don’t know if it was the rifle, me, the pellet or a combination. Not much help here today to pass on. More to learn. Now my cocking arm hurts 🙁
Mag Fire Ultra
Bob M, don’t beat yourself up too much – bad habit that wears too much on FM. We all have not-so-good shooting days. Last week took the Gamo Whisper Fusion out for some zeroing-in exercise; results were less than spectacular. FM is still “learning” this sproinger. In the process managed to step on the reading glasses taken to the backyard range and broke ‘em; sheet happens.
Yogi,
If not wanting to stop means fun, then I guess I did. But challenging is more like it, and I am looking forward to more. Just hope the weather changes soon.
PCP’s get the job done. Break Barrels seem to keep you going till you can.
FM,
Must be a target sheet for the pros, or an optimist, being so close together. Numbering really helps there. Won’t be borrowing dimes from BB too soon 😉
I really wasn’t ready for my target results. Been watching BB make it look easy for too long I guess.
Bob M,
Yes, if shooting a springer were easy it would be no fun!
-Yogi
Yogi,
really? I’m sure I wouldn’t mind… 🙂
Bob M,
what a report.
I was fascinated to learn the details about your latest shooting session, especially because you showed how things can sometimes disappoint. Thanks for sharing. 🙂
Ian,
Agree with you on the two-gun thing. Was hoping for three but ran out of day. Target shooting is not exactly fun. Like Ringo says, “It don’t come easy”. Had to stop and have a beer and clear out my frustrations after about 60 shots.
Another informative blog to your credit. Wonder why they ended the balanced airgun. Or have they?
Ah, PCP?
Bob M,
Well, the sledge system of the FWB 65 was its direct competitor and eventually won the mechanical recoilless war.
But first it was the Co2 match guns that raised the accuracy bar, then the PCP’s just crushed everything with their consistency and accuracy.
I would like to add to what others have said about springers.
Writing for this blog is making me become a better springer shooter.
I have always admitted I was not really a springer guy. I can shoot them. It was just never my favorite powerplant.
But I’m learning..
Also, remember, these guns are brand new, and as we learned from many times BB talking about, they need time to settle in, some guns do it quickly, and some guns do it more slowly.
I say shoot about a tin of pellets through each one, not for score just for learning the FEEL of the gun.
Once you’ve got it, zeroed moved to reactive targets.
Soda cans, pinecones, acorns, little green Army men from the dollar store or anything that strikes your fancy.
Then revisit the gun on paper for score.
Remember, this is supposed to be FUN!
Ian.
45Bravo,
Forgot about the break in period in my rush to shoot. Don’t feel so bad now. Things can only get better.
Plink first, get serious later. Good advice.
BD
One other word of advice from someone who has limited experience with shooting well but a lot with just shooting.
When shooting paper for comparisons, don’t shoot different guns in the same session. Each has a different way they like to “dance”, so spend some time with just the one until you feel you have gotten the best out of both you and the rifle.
Then it’s time for the beer and some time looking at the targets. After a bit (the length of that bit is up to you) pick up the second rifle or pistol and get to know her a little before the music starts.
For me, finding all the things that one rifle likes takes some time. I find I remember those things better if I don’t immediately start the process with another.
Practice doesn’t always make perfect,, but it does always make better.
Ed
Ed,
Thanks for the advice.
It is why I asked BB if there was a quick way, or process to follow, to determine an airguns accuracy. I have a lot of Ladies to ‘Dance’ with.
Members like you are helping out a lot in making things clear.
Bob M
BM
Wrote a reply and it got lost in space. Suffice to say that it simply said that there are really no “quick and dirty” ways to master sproingers. Just like the directions to Carnegie Hall,,,, practice, practice, practice.
Ed
Great report, Ian, thank you very much. Always enjoying to read your guest blogs, keep it up.
Could it be that there is a mistake in the text below the sight inserts? Last phrase, shouldn’t it read: The one on left is the one that works?
Otherwise, great read, I enjoyed it, as always (not always saying it, though…).
Bob, if I knew you personally, I would say “old hijacker”, but we don’t so I don’t allow myself to do so (damn I did…, apologies if this is too personal). Just kidding, apologies on the other hand are sincere. Don’t know whether you are new to springers or just an occasional springer shooter, I think I did things the same way as you did. Had two PCPs which were pretty accurate out to 50m (with me shooting them), but couldn’t get a Walther LGV springer to group at 10m. Passed it on to a friend of mine who only shot springers until then and that fine rifle grouped… Well a gift is a gift, had to get another one. Got myself a HW97 and started all over again. Admittedly, at 10m I could get it to group better than the LGV from the start but still far from PCP accuracy. Now, several 1000s of pellets later, that has settled, pellets are now grouping better (close to PCP accuracy but not consistently so). I know that the rifle can, the issue is me.
2 conclusions: 1st I had to learn how to shoot a springer and damn, once you get it, it improves all your shooting, even PCP groups got a lot better. This is an on going process, still, you need far more concentration to remain consistent with a springer, but man is this rewarding…
2nd: Still, I’m better with the HW than my friend’s LGV (and vice versa by the way…). That is just simply because the HW rifles fit me better than the LGV did. Again, the LGV is a fine rifle that groups, just not with me behind the trigger.
Your groups remind me of mine starting to shoot Sproingers even though having been a somewhat experienced shooter by that time. Was like I have never shot a pellet or bullet before in my life… Keep on practicing and if you get the chance, try other rifles, yours may simply just not fit you.
Papa Schults,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I never got serious with my springers until now. I am determined to do my best with them, time permitting. Each one seems to have its own mind.
The concentration is draining on the old bod, especially when you get mixed results doing the same thing, or so it seems. The trigger, the hold, the sight, the eye relief, the breathing, the repetition. The fact that the same pellets just fall in sometimes and are hard to insert the next time adds to your anxiety of knowing your almost wasting your time and now a pellet sorting operation may be needed. Also noticed my fingernail was crushing some tight pellet shirts when inserted. More to deal with. Not a problem with magazines, single shot trays and bolts.
For the life of me I could not find my Chronometer today, but it is probably just as well. I had my hands full.
On my first ‘group locating target’ I shot 6 RWS Hobby wad cutters, 11.9gr from the BM8 into a large single ragged hole. They almost fell through the barrel, but when I shot for accuracy, the first three missed the entire sheet of targets. That really had me going. May have stopped for a beer at that point. I gave up on them right there.
Bob M,
I think you have learned why us sproinger shooters like good triggers. To know when that sproinger is going to let fly is very important.
You are also attempting to learn two very different sproingers at the same time. That is not going to work. Every gal dances differently. You are going to have to learn how each one likes to dance. Once you learn how one of them dances, the learning curve becomes very short with the others.
I do not sort pellets. Once I learn how a particular sproinger behaves, I will then find THE pellet for that particular one. They are not usually cheap. The quality and consistency is usually very high. Most often I will then buy a Wilkins pellet pouch and have that particular pellet with that particular airgun.
Although I have a very nice shooting bench that I have built, I am not a target shooter. I am a very serious plinker though. I was fortunate that my first air rifle was a sproinger. I bought a Gamo CFX and spent almost three years learning how to dance with that gal. I upgraded the trigger, had a scope mount specially modified for her, tried a gas spring in her, changed her back and sent many, many pellets down range with her. I learned a lot in that time.
What you will likely find is there are not many sproingers that will group better than 2 MOA. It is the nature of the beast. Another thing you will find is the more powerful a sproinger is, the harder it is to cock and the less accurate it tends to be.
The gas spring does help to improve the accuracy by reducing torque and vibration, but most of those cannot be rebuilt. I think this will be the next big step forward for sproingers. There are a few out there, but most shooters do not understand them and end up destroying their seals.
Ramble, ramble, ramble, ramble.
Completely agree with RR, maybe concentrate on one lady first.
Grouping you described on the BM8 sounds like she wants to shoot. Would start with her, finding right pellet, hold, trigger technique. I know, I know, results depend on each of the above, so where to start?
Would start with the current technique and find the pellet that groups best. Then keep pellet and improve on one of the others at the time to lock in findings and repeat as consistently as possible. Once you see improvement, maybe test different pellets again, either confirms first result or turns out another one being better with improved technique. A good beer in between helps, definitely, not too many, though, that makes the target box move too much…
Papa Schultz,
Definitely won’t be any beers on the shooting bench. Have enough problem with the wind folding over the target. Need to stop, relax and reflect once in a while. Come back with renewed enthusiasm.
RR,
Yes, the trigger is everything with these and accuracy. All the talk about them hit home for me. Been spoiled with the easy shooters.
Papa Schultz,
Good catch. I fixed it.
BB
At your service, BB, my pleasure.
Ian,
That Giss system is awesome, is it not? For a short time I had a Beeman 800 here. If it had been a Beeman 900 it would probably still be here. 😉
I am most definitely going to have to try these new Benjis in the “old gals” around here. A good quality dome could be just what the doctor ordered.
Yes it is, while I like the FWB system too, you can see it working..
The GISS system is hidden, therefore it’s more intriguing.
And when a person not familiar with it asks how it works after shooting it, it’s fun to watch them try to wrap their heads around it.
Ian.
Ian,
Great report! After reading B.B. blog on his Diana 10M, it convinced me that I needed one too. In the 1980’s, my brother and I place an order with Beeman. He gat a FWB 65 and I got a Diana 5G. I wanted the 10M but thought the swiveling barrel cocking might easily break. B.B. convinced me otherwise!
Glad the new Benji pellets are so good! However, as I am sure you know, most 10M pistols are usually shot with 7-8.5 grain wadcutters. So I would assume that your velocity numbers would be 50 fps+(or there abouts) with the lighter pellets.
Great shooting! Shooting a springer is hard, shooting a pistol is even harder…
-Yogi
PS thank you for that definition of what a Jonah is. I thought he was just an unlucky fisherman.
Yes it is a very enjoyable pistol to shoot. And it is very good looking!
I will be trying these pellets in many airguns, when Benjamin releases lighter ones. I’ll test them as well.
I just started with two airguns that are accurate, by possibly not suited for the weight of the pellet.
I wanted to know how they shot at lower velocities.
The continuing Benjamin pellet tests will see airguns from Air Venturi, Air Arms, Diana, Crosman (both vintage and modern guns) SIG and others.
Ian
Ian,
No HW’s?
-Y
That’s both easy, and hard to answer.
The short answer to why none are on the list is because I don’t own an HW.
The hard to answer part is I don’t know when I can afford one.
I love them, just don’t have any.
Ian..
Ian
Great report and loved the Giss system video and your ability to tune a Giss. Have held one at the Newton show but never shot one. Have heard here that this system is very hard to tune precisely.
I must be one of very few who loves shooting paper targets. I can’t get enough of it Hundreds of shots every week, usually 10 shot groups at 25 yards. No trash to pick up and lots of elation mixed in with the aw shucks.
I have never found a popular priced pellet that was as accurate as the premium priced pellets. I shoot the popular priced pellets in popular priced pistols. But I usually will chrony my guns using Hobby pellets to satisfy my velocity curiosity. When I tested my HW30s the velocity using Hobbies was much lower than made any sense. The heavier JSB pellets are over 100 fps faster. I attribute this to Hobby pellet skirts and barrel fit for this Weihrauch.
Excuse my wandering reply but it is in response to above reader comments.
Deck
I will get a blog together about resealing and timing one.
They are u inquest for sure.
Ian
Can’t wait! I have a Winchester 363 (Diana 6) waiting for that guest blog!
Ian,
Sorry for the late comments, but I would be very interested in a blog covering the timing of a GISS system. I have a 6G that sometimes shoots beautifully and others is very frustrating. I had it resealed professionally and it regain some speed but it is not always steady.
Before I forget, great blog on the pellets.
Henry
Thanks for the great report Ian. Nice shooting Ian, and some very nice guns BB! Hang in there Bob. You are trying to get used to a lot of different items all at once. Once you do, and you get a better feel for everything, target shooting should become more enjoyable. Then the challenges involved with target shooting help keep things interesting.
Elmer,
And I thought target shooting would be boring. You know, the thought of putting all those pellets through the same hole all the time. What a wakeup.
Yes, BB, Ian, and some others make it look easy. But we know better… 😉
Hey, you hurt my feelings. I don’t bring bad luck to people around me. I’m one of the good guys.
Jonah,
I wondered if you read that! 😉
By the way, a free attendance gun show at Shilen barrels Saturday, March 23. I will be there with firearms and airguns to sell at ridiculously low prices.
https://www.shilen.com/swapMeet.html
BB
That’s the friendliest swap meet FM has ever seen – too bad no can do. 🙁 Enjoyed today’s report; seems these pellets will need adding to a future order list.
Aw man! I wish I could make it!
45Bravo,
I think you had a Whale of a time testing the new Benjamin domed pellets!
Your groups are NOT to be sneeze at!
Your engineering cutaway took me back to my training with cutaways of engines, turbines, pumps, propeller control/reduction gear, tail hooks, and landing gear.
shootski
Ian,
Great report! Good find on the video, to describe the Giss system (I’ve spent a lot of time/effort sketching & waving my hands, trying to describe it to friends).
I resealed my Model 6 and am not quite sure about what you mean by ‘timing’. From being inside my pistol, when the slave piston is at the end of the compression tube and the gears just drop into place, it should be correct. (With the .3mm gap for the stepped washer, like I saw in “Another Airgun Blog”) Or am I missing something?
General off topic question. I just put my old Blue Streak over the chrono and found that it is slow,~565 fps and down from about 620 a year ago. It was still holding air after sitting for about 2 months. Do I just need a new pump cup? (Rather than a full rebuild)
Enjoy your weekend.
Bill
Billj
Lube it, shoot it, lube it shoot (blanks are okay for this) some more (until it sprays lube onto a sheet of paper) before you start tearing into it.
Also, do you store it laying down on the side? If so, lay it on the other side…better still store it standing on its butt in a proper rifle rack if possible.
Best wishes for no rebuild and return to a good MV!
shootski
Bill,
Lube the pump cup with automatic transmission sealant. I boosted my Supergrade’s velocity by over 100 f.p.s. that way.
BB
BB,
Thank you.
I’ve just applied some automatic transmission sealer. We’ll see how it works over the next few days.
Btw – How’s the Harley? (Spring is just around the corner.)
Bill
Bill,
Just fired her up a rode today — first time in 2024. She is a beauty!
BB
BB, Shootski and All,
I made a comment to Shootski a bit back that I felt like I was surrounded by idiots in a college prep High School and in hindsight would like to explain. Dump it if I get out of hand.
I went to a Catholic Grammar School and was in my second year at Most Holy Trinity HS, age 14. I had been working after school since I was 12 when I started.
A delivery boy for a handmade specialty item business my grandmother and her friend owned. Delivering to places like the Waldorf Astoria and all the major department stores and all kinds of high-end business throughout Manhattan NY.
I got a good look at how companies operated, and the world worked, traveling around the big city for two years on my own, via subway and bus. It made me wiser than my age at 14, and I always had a few hundred dollars to spend and keep track of. Nobody else did in school. Most of guys in school were more like rich silly kids, mama boys with no direction at all or care what was going on in the world.
The teachers were a bit odd. Extremely strict, throwing things at students to get their attention, and overly friendly in their behavior with some students, sometimes, and I’ll leave it at that.
I asked a priest why the Catholic Church never let us, or anybody have anything to do with the Bible?
In so many words he replied that people were too stupid to understand it and only Biblical Scholars in the church were permitted to interpret it. OK, well in hind sight, as an adult I believe there are a lot of contradictions between the two, better left ignored by them. Through Christ or a Religion and a Church? My own opinion is the Catholic Religion has somewhat evolved into a business of sorts. Nuff said there also.
So after 10 years of Catholic education, I decided they taught me enough to realize it wasn’t for me. Just between Jesus and me now and I transferred to a public school where all my friends were anyway and had a great time. Boys High Mombo, Oley Oley!
Gym every day, not once a week for an hour! And I was never threatened with 6 demerits for not joining the track team after school. I had a job.
Bob,
As a former Roman Catholic (different from the early catholic church that was founded by Jews) I understand your upbringing. I recently wrote a novel based on this that focuses on the possibility of what Yeshua said to Simon Peter in John chapter, 21 verses 21- 22.
BB
Bob M,
“…I decided they taught me enough…”
Indoctrination is a very slippery slope.
In my opinion you might think on adding the Father and the Holy Spirit back into your beliefs; that triumvirate is a very stable conception. Many get the Father and the Son but the Holy Ghost seems to escape many a potential Believer.
https://www.jessicabrodie.com/shiningthelight/holyspiritmyfriend
shootski
shootski,
And yet He is mentioned specifically in the second verse of the first chapter of Genesis!
BB
B.B.,
I suspect he was there before: In the beginning…
shootski
Bob M,
interesting childhood.
Truthfully, I’d rather have been one of those ‘idiots’ because they seemed to enjoy a more carefree childhood.
Somewhat of an idiot myself, while growing up, yet of a rather different kind, is probably what people, who know my youth, would agree to. I hope to mature sometime… 🙂
Please know that I merely wish to show a different kind of perspective, without any criticism! 🙂
hihihi
I enjoy a good discussion with people who see things differently and look forward to understanding their reasoning. Most people fall short in convincing me to see their way of thinking and it eventually turns out to be based on emotion, not reality or facts. In the worst case they run out of facts and in their frustration revert to name calling to end the conversation. Depending on how deep it gets.
Privileged students may be living in bliss, but I believe it fails to prepare them for life and reality. Especially when they venture out of their circle of support.
Privileged college graduates are often the first to commit suicide when their world falls apart. They never had to develop a coping mechanism to deal with adversities in life the average person must live with. It’s not all black and white and I’m sure most of us fall into the gray area in between.
Getting way off airgun topic here so I’ll end with a short story.
I was in completion for being Class Honor Man with a college graduate in an enlisted mans (Non-Officer) Navy school.
He and a lot of others believed he would eventually achieve it because he was “So smart”. Turned out there was too much information to memorize. I sought to understand all the information and equipment workings instead. I ‘knew how it all worked’, he had to try and ‘remember how it all worked.’ He did not take the time to figure it all out, and I received the Honor Man placard. He was slightly devastated. I had received orders to England, and he was most likely headed toward Vietnam.
On the downside, he most likely is eligible to join the Veterans of Foreign War, VFW. I am not.
Bob M,
thank you for honouring me with your reply. 🙂
I read somewhere, and agree, that emotions are the most powerful drivers for us humans. Apparently they’re often soft as water but when they flow relentlessly, they will eventually wear down even the hardest rock.
For example, a reasonable decision to abstain from a desire will, without further input, likely become a reason to justify the indulgence! 🙂
Personally, I value happiness to the point of it being my raison d’être. Even though I have learned that money actually can buy enhancers, I also know it’s impossible for me to be happy when I’m feeling lonely.
Being part of any kind of team has always given me a particularly strong buzz, I suppose as it should for all pack animals, eh. 🙂
I think I must be one of those privileged people, living a blissful life. I started out as a Mummy’s Boy and to this day, I have yet to visit the school of hard knocks.
But I have a super power: I’m lucky! 🙂
Never heard of a ‘Class Honor Man’ but it seems a highly desirable accolade and therefore I feel it appropriate to congratulate you, even though somewhat belatedly.
Also, I know what you mean by comprehension versus the ability for verbatim repetition. Well done. 🙂
When the likes of that college graduate loser are eligible to join the ‘Veterans of Foreign War’, why would you want to?
hihihi,
That’s easy, there are far more Enlisted men than Officers in the VFW. They are more likely to develop Comradery from spending more time supporting each other in a shared experience.
Honor Man simply refers to the, usually enlisted, person who received the highest score in the end through hard work, diligence and performance. It is totally expected from all Officers, so it is not that uncommon and deserving of recognition. but then there is the likes of “TOP GUN”.
In a small way it is also a thank you for making the most of taxpayer’s money, though not openly expressed.
A lot of enlisted men were drafted into military service against their will back then and did not apply themselves to the best of their ability. Especially if they had absolutely no intension of making a career out of it and wanted nothing more than to get out when their time was up.
Not all fields of service were rewarding or even desirable to some. I lucked out.
And yes, emotional people are relentless in trying to make others comply with their desire or at least see their point of view, and, agree with it.
It does seem to work, but not without unintended consequences for the most part. Logic is often discarded.
Also, there were not a lot of college graduates among the ranks of enlisted men. Most went to be Officers and Gentlemen, like BB and Shootski or they moved into the officer ranks when they did.
Bob M,
ah yes, I can empathise with joining when the company is right. 🙂
I successfully avoided National Service.
The closest I came to contributing to society was when I joined the crew of a local lifeboat, although, I saw it as being allowed to mess about in a little rigid hulled inflatable, for free. Happy days! 🙂
hihihi,
I can imagine so. I had a shipmate who left the regular Navy to join the Coast Gard and rescued people at sea as part of a helicopter crew. He absolutely loved it.
BB, Shootski,
I never sought out another religion or read the Bible. Life absorbed me and I had learned enough to last a lifetime already. Thought about becoming a Christian Brother for a brief period, indoctrination? But no wife or kids? Never mind. May explain some of the bad press the church has received concerning relationships.
Just went through life more of less following ‘The Golden Rule’. With lots of exceptions along the way and perhaps the Holy Spirit was always with me getting the most out of common sense? There are lots of rewarding moments when you do.
I have a few Bibles now, complements of my mentally impaired shipmate and the one I just used to look up the reference is old, 1965, and is held together with FAA approved fire-resistant aircraft cargo bay tape and was a gift to someone from the Naval Air Station North Island Chapel in 1974. My duty station for 10 years.
Almost like I was meant to have it.
Always amazed me how people managed to quote it so precisely off the top of their head. But this one has lots of information underlined and there are many notes in the borders.
It is organized. Law, History, Poetry, Biography, Prophesy, Predictions / Visions in the Old Testament. Biography, History, Doctrine, Letters and more Prophesy in the new.
Not sure where I will go from here. Set in my ways, but things have worked out well for me so far compared to many others. Thanks for the replies.
BB,
I have a picture of you shooting an RAI stocked Marauder with a bipod. I that a thin tight carpet you have on your shooting bench?
Seems like a great idea in many ways.
B.B. and Readership,
Not Benjamins!
Shooting pellets out of a very powerful Big Bore
55.15 gr .30 (7.62) caliber Pellet
Yards..Vel….Energy…Drop…TOF(sec)
0 1200 161 -1.5 0.000
4 1160 150 -0.6 0.010
8 1127 142 0.2 0.020
10 1109 138 0.6 0.026
20 1048 123 2.4 0.053
30 997 111 3.9 0.083
40 952 101 4.9 0.114
50 911 93 5.6 0.146
75 821 75 4.8 0.233
100 741 61 0.0 0.329
125 666 50 -10.0 0.435
130 gr .308 (7.62) caliber RN BULLET
Yards..Vel….Energy… Drop….TOF(sec)
0 900 234 -1.5 0.000
4 894 231 -0.5 0.013
8 889 228 0.5 0.026
10 886 226 1.0 0.033
20 871 219 3.0 0.067
30 857 212 4.5 0.102
40 844 206 5.5 0.137
50 831 199 6.1 0.173
75 799 184 4.9 0.265
100 768 170 0.0 0.361
125 738 157 -9.0 0.460
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/02/quackenbush-308-part-1/#comment-360808
B.B. talks about shooting a pellet with his DAQ .308…
So after (re)reading Tom’s blog i decided to do it for him. The results were interesting if not unexpected.
If you look at the ballistics program calculations based on my input guestimates you will see that although the bullet is just shy of 2.5 times the Mass of the pellet and starts out with 300FPS slower MV it arrives 0.032 seconds behind the pellet at 100 yards down range. Also, if we look at the 125 yard data you can see it is going to catch the pellet and drop even less. The far better down range velocity retention and trajectory; of the bullet (slug) is obvious. At shorter than 75 yards the pellet seems to have the upper hand with regard to a flatter trajectory and retained velocity but it ends there but the dissimilar Mass is problematic for a reasonably fair comparison of even these apples and oranges.
This type of comparison will make for an interesting future test if i can compare the JSB pellets to a bullet (slug) of similar weight but both projectiles must continue to be stable. So far i have only had time to shoot 5 of the JSB EXACT 30 caliber (7.62) 55.15 gr pellets and the target indicates they are seemingly stable but i want to see a larger sampling. I have NO experience shooting such light weight projectiles from any Big Bore. I only tried shooting “light” pellets because B.B. had shot 65 grain hollow points with his SLOWER TWIST .308 DAQ with some success and someone wondered about him shooting pellets.
The first 3 pellets are inside 1MOA which has been my experience with my DAQ .308 1:10 barrel shooting various bullet types between 110-155 grain; once i get to shot 4 and 5 the POI shifts and opens the groups to about 2-3 MOA probably because the airtube has flexed with pressure reduction. With bullets i can typically discern from (D.O.P.E.) the particular pattern for that projectile and charge pressure correcting for it with my Mil-Dot reticle; I use a big 5-30 MEOPTA scope on my DAQ 308.
I normally charge to pressures over 3,400PSI (234 BAR) but this time only used 3,100PSI (214 BAR) that seemed to be plenty. The valve closed much quicker, as expected, it appears i used far less air tube pressure for the 5 shots. I was not set up for data collection since i had no idea if it would work in the real world.
I will need to set up my LabRadar for a future pellet vs slug Grudge Match and get some actual numbers. I know they wont be far off from the Ballistic Program calculations based on my input estimates given the Target POI and having heard the short TOF intervals.
Just a reminder to folks who have not hunted with relatively slow projectiles: your biggest limiting factor in airgun hunting is the game hearing the report and jumping the POA. The Time Of Flight is the PRIME factor you must consider to establish your maximum hunting range…UNLESS you hang sixteen inches of HUSH on the muzzle like i do; a great suppressor really can make a BIG BORE sound quieter than a very tame Springer. Just know what the speed of sound is at the time (it changes quite a bit with Density Altitude) and stay below it. I’m certain if i filled a few more PSI i could have heard a great deal more NOISE.
shootski
shootski,
what a super interesting report (despite this comment section’s limitations for formatting).
I am particularly fascinated by the energy levels at various distances – THANKS ! 🙂
hihihi,
I have a TYPO on the pellet weight it is 50.15 grains not 55.15. That is actually a lucky typing mistake because JSB makes a KnockOut Slug that is .30 caliber (7.62) and weighs 50.15 grains. I need to see if i have some of those or place an order. It will be interesting to see how they perform in a side by side comparison. The major issue potentially is will they fly stable at the same initial Velocity.
shootski
shootski,
I agree, the same weight projectiles should make for another interesting comparison, even if they’re still apples and oranges… 🙂
Personally, I am amazed to see the actual energy loss or -retention, eg how far before the glass is half empty or -full, eh?! 🙂
hihihi,
Both!
For pellets it is how quickly the glass is half empty…a good thing.
For bullets (slugs) it is how long the glass is at least half full!
Now i’m going to fill my glass back up with some Champagne and get the and Prosciutto di Parma wrapped asparagus in the oven.
shootski
Chef shootski,
sounds delicious, bon appétit, and of course, Santé! 🙂
————
They say that your wine originates from a monastry not far from here (Limoux is about thirty minutes’ drive). The ‘little white’ wine proved popular and eventually it’s recipe arrived in the Champagne region…
Apparently the local bubbles are still made by the same original method, but as they’re not sold as ‘Champagne’, they fetch far more favourable prices: ~$6-$7.
Some guests have even accused us of serving them Moët (a more expensive wine), which is fair because they hadn’t seen the bottles… 🙂
hihihi,
Merci,
I have seen Aimery on the shelf here in the USA; all of it was Brut or Rose and never for less than US $14.99! I will need to take AIM on some Aimery when a dry wine is called for.
Buying Brut seems to mean you know something about wine (in the USA) and you are a rube if you pair something even a little sweet with your food; Rose is thought to be for pleasing the little woman…. Lol!
Since tonight’s appetizer had some salt to it i chose a Moët-Chandon Nectar Impérial to pair with it.
It was a most enjoyable pairing :^)
shootski
DANG!
LOST ALL THE SPACING!
shootski
BB and Readers,
Here’s a weekend, off-topic entry. Here the morning sun filters through last evenings’ snow target. It’s sort of pretty, isn’t it? With the snow that’s been lingering, the crusty stuff makes fun reactive targets! Of course this is nothing new under the sun, but sometimes you have to remember to do these things.
I cut out a rectangular slab of snow with a knife, scoop it out and kerplunk it onto the handy little tree stump, just outside the door. My trusty 1976 Crosman 760 smooth bore self-cocker and some BBs made for a chillaxing time plinking away at snow targets. Two pumps would embed the BB and 3 would most often bash through this crop of large crystal crust, at roughly 10 meters. Pecking away at the monolith until the last of it crumbles turned out to be more fun than it might sound! The snow has features to aim at, so there is structure to the plinking, but it is also a good way to practice the instinctive shooting, that we sometimes talk about here.
I’d drop the BB down the muzzle and then pump the gun to prepare the shot. There is no need to fiddle with the bolt on a Crosman self-cocker when using BBs. The larger diameter Daisy Match Grade Precision Ground Shot filled the bore better and took about twice as long to fall down the bore as the Crosman Copperheads do.
Next snowfall, maybe I can work up a makeshift snow replica of Jelly Chuck and do some testing!
Cheers!
Will
That looks like fun, and no targets to buy, replace, clean up, or maintain. Just wait until spring.
Will,
Thanks for sharing. That does look like fun!
BB
Will
Kinda looks like a sad Snoopy. This could be a new way to sculpt,, if you could keep the statues from melting.
Ed
edlee,
hehe, using plinking to create art – what a thought!
Look forward to more white sculptures from those in the brrr… 🙂
Will S,
What a COOL idea!
If you want to color your ICEchuck: https://worldcupsupply.com/product-category/events/accessories-events/course-dye-accessories-events/
We us this stuff to make those blue lines in the snow (really ICE) for the downhill races. Comes in colors to mark turns and other things for other ski races.
shootski
Ian,
This was a great peek into the Giss system in air guns, and the video makes it clear that there is no lunge that regular springers all have. BB’s two pistols are so beautiful, too. It’s good to see beautiful collectables like these in working order and being used. Thank you for the work you do for BB and us readers, I hope it’s a pleasure to do.
Regards,
Will
Will,
Those two pistols are Ian’s now. One is payment for fixing the Buglespanner.
BB
B.B. Pelletier,
reducing your inventory has had me wondering whether you are contemplating retirement? 🙂
hi3,
No, not really. Should I?
BB
B.B.,
What ever would you do in your Retirement?
Ride Motorcycles, shoot firearms, slingshots, and airguns?
shootski
shootski,
You reckon? 😉
BB
B.B. Pelletier,
yes, of course not ! 🙂