Dragonfly Mark 2.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
This report covers:
- The test
- JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
- Trigger glitch
- H&N Baracuda Match with 5.51mm heads
- Air Arms 18-grain domes
- Ten-shot group
- Dot sight
- Summary
Before we begin, I am aware that the links above to the previous articles and links to any products in this report don’t work. This is a WordPress issue that I have reported to IT.
Today I shoot the Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 multi-pump rifle for accuracy at 25 yards, Remember, I still have it mounted with a UTG Micro Reflex dot sight. Let’s get started.
The test
Because this rifle is a multi-pump I shot 5-shot groups with each pellet. It was always my intention to take the pellet with the best showing and shoot a group of 10, and I did do that as well.
I pumped the rifle five times per shot for the entire test. Once I established that the sight was on at 25 yards, I never adjusted it. It was on from the first shot, so the sight remained where it was adjusted from the 10-meter test.
I shot with the rifle resting directly on a sandbag rest at 25 yards. There was an issue with the trigger that I adjusted in Part 8, but the issue was mine and not the rifle’s. I was able to compensate for it as I shot, and there were no called pulls in today’s test.
JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
The first pellet tested was the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy that has done so well in past tests. In Part 7 the Dragonfly Mark II put five in 0.078-inches at 10 meters. In today’s test the Dragonfly Mark 2 put 5 pellets into a 0.931-inch group at 25 yards.
The Dragonfly Mark 2 put five JSB Exact Jumbo Heavys into 0.931-inches at 25 yards.
Trigger glitch
I discovered this while shooting the first group. The trigger didn’t always fire the rifle. Apparently when I adjusted the setscrew in Part 8 I didn’t move it out quite far enough. But I discovered that I could partially pull the trigger then relax and pull a second time and it broke as it should. Again — this is something that didn’t do quite right. It’s not the rifle’s fault. I did this for the rest of the test and, once again, there were no called pulls.
H&N Baracuda Match with 5.51mm heads
This is another pellet that did well in earlier tests. At 25 yards five of them went into 0.863-inches. I think the fact that I was getting more careful about how I massaged the trigger accounted for this smaller group.
Five Baracuda Match pellets with 5.51mm heads went into 0.863-inches at 25 yards.
Air Arms 18-grain domes
The last pellet I test was the 18-grain dome from Air Arms. Five of them made a 0.743-inch group at 25 yards. And four of them are in 0.597-inches. This group impressed me. So, this is the pellet I selected to shoot a group of 10.
The best of the 5-shot groups measures 0.743-inches between centers.
Ten-shot group
Given these three groups I chose the Air Arms 18-grain dome for the 10-shot group. Ten pellets went into 1.545-inches with nine in 1.195-inches. I have no explanation for the size off this group but I assure you there were no called pulls.
The Dragonfly Mark 2 put 10 Air Arms 18-grain domes into a 1.545-inch group at 25 yards, with nine in 1.195-inches.
Dot sight
At the end of this test I tried to turn off the UTG Reflex Micro Dot sight I had been using. When you hold in that button in the sight will cycle through the illumination levels and then turns off — almost. And then the lowest level of illumination turns back on and unless you hold the button in a few more seconds the sight stays on. It takes several seconds more to fully turn off.
Summary
The accuracy you see today is no surprise. It’s not like we haven’t seen it all along. But we aren’t stopping here. The next step is to mount a scope on the rifle and see where that takes us.
Before I do that I will adjust the trigger again and put the sear release screw out further. I won’t write a blog about that because Part 8 goes into it in such depth. I plan to read that report again before I got to work.
If you have one of these on order I think you will be pleased.
“If you have one of these on order I think you will be pleased.”
Thanks, B.B., I am very pleased with this latest report, and I am very much looking forward to your next test after the rifle is scoped.
The only thing I can’t figure out is this, I got an email from PA saying my rifle was not in yet, and asking if I still wanted to keep it on order…of course I do!
That scare me, because what if I had missed that email? My order might have been cancelled, which would be sad.
I hope someone at PA in the ordering department reads this; if so, I would ask that they add an option on pre-orders, something along the lines of a box I can click that says,
“No, no, NO! NEVER cancel this order till I get this gun!
I don’t care if it takes 6 months! I don’t care if it takes a year!
Please DO NOT cancel my order!”
LOL!
Sorry for the rant; but seriously, I wish they had that option, as that is exactly what I want; I don’t want an email every month asking if I still want to keep my Dragonfly Mark2 on order; of course I want to keep it on order! And the more good things you write about this rifle, the more that is the case. Thanks for all these reports on it; keep up the great work. 🙂
Take care & God bless,
dave
B.B. I wonder; could it be that it needs more pumps in order to stabilize the heavy pellets that far? Maybe you could try it. After all most of us who are going to shoot at this distance will probably do it using more power.
Bill,
What kind of test do you have in mind?
BB
25 yards, scoped as you intend for your convenience, but with 7 pumps at least.
Bill,
Okay. I will try to remember to do it.
BB
Max pumps with the best pellet? Isn’t that what the majority of us backyard warriors want? ;o)
It’s interesting to compare the accuracy of a multi pump pneumatic vs. that of a Springer of similar price and power
The pneumatic should have an edge in accuracy, tradeoff it that it takes more work to pump
What do you think, guys? If I compare the dragonfly, I’d say its accuracy is very comparable to a springer?
Mel83
Yes, unless you included Diana 34, Weihrauchs, etc but they do cost more.
It is possible BB’s groups will shrink with a scope, trigger issue and more pumps. Waiting to see.
Deck
Agree, also, I would also add, although I don’t know for sure, that the barrel may not be fully broken in yet. I have read on this blog that it can take anywhere from 500 to over 1000 shots (or a good cleaning with JB nonembedding bore paste) to break in a new barrel, and would expect no less for a barrel on a gun at this price point. FWIW, I have about 500 or so shots through my new Crosman 362 and I am STARTING to see better groups from pellets that initially did not do so well. Unfortunately, B.B. probably does not have the luxury of time to put 1000 pellets through a pumper before starting his tests. However, I would volunteer to help out if the pellets were free! :o)
Roamin,
Let’s see — you want to borrow my airgun and get free pellets. Yep — you’re an airgunner, alright! 🙂
BB
Yep, but I will provide my services for breaking in your test rifles and pistols for free! If you or P.A. would rather pay my hourly rate, I will happily pay for pellets and shipping! HA!
B.B.,
After your #8 report on the Dragonfly MK 2 I purchased a Diana Trail Scout, which has the same trigger mechanism as the Stormrider MK 2. Below is an image of the Stormrider MK 2 trigger, but my Trail Scout looks exactly the same, and exploded parts diagrams of the Stormrider show the trigger mechanism to be quite similar to the Dragonfly MK 2. The trigger on mine has a light smooth first stage and a distinct but light and VERY crisp second stage. According to Hard Air Magazine the “front screw adjusts sear engagement, the rear one trigger pull weight.” My Trail Scout was very inexpensive, and I am considering a swap of its trigger with the Dragonfly MK 2 trigger once I get my mine. I figure if they are not compatible for the swap, then at least I have a very nice, inexpensive CO2 air rifle in the Trail Scout.
Michael
PARTS DIAGRAM:
Michael,
Are those two grub screws or set screws, as some call them, projected out on either side of the trigger? If they are, can you tell me if they are threaded into the side walls of the trigger group’s frame, possibly to center or stabilize the trigger?
As for swapping triggers, I think that all you really need to do to get the adjustable sear engagement, which is what the single screw in the DF2 does, is drill a hole in the trigger to give you access to the screw without having to take the gun apart.
Half
Half,
If you click on the small pictures in my posts, larger pictures will come up. (It took me years of reading this blog to figure that out.)
The Dragonfly MK 2 has a grub screw inside, but the Stormrider MK 2 trigger adjustment screws are exposed, slotted, threaded machine screws with unthreaded tips that contact the sear. The screws go all the way through the trigger blade and then go through the flat, horizontal nub above the trigger blade.
Drilling a hole in the Dragonfly trigger blade to allow access to the internal grub screw would require removing the trigger, so why not just adjust it whle the blade is out? Also, the hole would need to be perfectly aligned, so drilling with the trigger unit installed would be dicey.
Besides, the Trail Scout / Stromrider MK 2 trigger has two screws, so they double the fun! :^)
Michael
Michael, Michael, Michael,
What self-respecting airgunner would just adjust his trigger once, LOL
On a more serious note, I would like you to answer my questions about the two set screws that are projected out to the sides on the exploded pictorial drawing you posted. (I know about enlarging the image by clicking on it. That’s how I was able to make it big enough to notice that there seemed to be a hex hole in the center of the left hand screw)
I understand that you may not be able to answer me until you actually remove the assembly from the gun when you do the swap out, but if you can remember to post what you find, I would appreciate it.
Half
Off topic: when I sign in to the blog, I have typically entered my email and password, but now when I do that, it doesn’t “take” and I get the login screen again with my username pre-filled in and I have to put my password in again. Anyone else getting that?
Yes. I had to do it twice for it to work,
Roamin,
Yes, the blog has some problems. I take 2-3 times to sign in. None of the links will publish either.
IT has been notified twice.
BB
Must be the beta version of the latest update. Or, we can blame it on foreign hackers.
Personally, I find it very interesting to compare how the same airgun-pellet combination performs at different distances. Thanks for these reports, B.B.
So, a dot sight is not the way to go. Maybe you have a TX200 in .22? About the same energy as this one, and a springer. Cant wait for the scoping of this rifle. I really wish I got the ASP, but my Prod at 19 ft/lbs is so light and accurate, it’s hard to complain. I get bored with measuring, plus the wind, its just easier for me to hang a drilled out electrical box cover plate in front of a target box. For an easy time, use the 5/8″ holes, or the 1/2″ ones. The 3/8″ holes are harder at 47 yds. Fresh coat of spray paint is quick. What I found is that duct tape with spray paint on it works just like the shootnsee targets, when there are just too many holes, then fresh duct tape. They either all got through the little sized hole or, as in my case, they all dont go in there. 19 ft/lbs is a lot more than 12, and at 47 yds, more than the Dragonfly has at the muzzle. I think the Winchester 807 break barrel is about equal in terms of power in .22.
Rob
B.B. and the Readership,
It only took two (2) tries to Log On just now; yesterday it took three (3) or more tries to get it done.
It will be interesting to see if the Dragonfly continues to have trigger troubles in regular owner’s hands once deliveries begin.
I’m reposting a bit from a late REPLY to yesterday’s Group Size Blog:
“OUTLIERS IN GROUP TESTING: WHEN TO EXCLUDE FLYERS
by Joe Brennan
Sometimes during a test we get a group with one shot way out, an outlier.
Our choice is whether or not to INCLUDE that outlier group in our results/calculations.
Here’s a simple rule for 5 shot groups:
On the outlier target, measure the smallest 4 shot group and the 5 shot group including the outlier.
Divide the smaller into the larger.
If the answer is more than 1.7, DON’T INCLUDE the group.
If the answer is less than 1.7, INCLUDE the group.
Here’s an example: A set of 5 shot groups has one group with a very wide shot. The four shot group size is .8″. The five shot group size is 1.5″. Dividing .8″ into 1.5″ we get 1.875.
Since 1.875 is more than 1.7, DO NOT INCLUDE the group.
For 10 shot groups, measure the nine and ten shot group sizes, divide the smaller into the larger. If the result is more than 1.43, DO NOT INCLUDE; if less than 1.43, INCLUDE the group.
(Take note of that 1.43 decision point)
WHY?
A 5 shot group is 1.1 times the size of a 4 shot group.
A 10 shot group is 1.03 times the size of a 9 shot group.
The standard deviation of 5 shot groups is .269 X the average.
The standard deviation of 10 shot groups is .195 X the average.”
The math containment formulas are really complex compared to these simplified arithmetic processes. Remember these adjustments are for the Out of The Blue Flyers and NOT for shooter or wind read failure FLYERS!
Give it a try and see if it works for you over a number of guns and projectiles.
shootski
BB
JSB exact jumbo heavy section:
“In Part 7 the Dragonfly Mark II put five in 0.078-inches at 10 meters”.
Think that should be 0.78 inches?
Talking of group sizes, I picked up a Gamo MP9 today and was very impressed with the groups at 18 feet, especially given the low price of this gun. Think it calls for a review from BB. You’ll like it!
Ade C,
Nope. It was 0.078-inches. Look at it here:
/blog/2022/03/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-7/?swcfpc=1
BB
Apologies. The links to previous reports weren’t working yesterday so I couldn’t check it!
Ade C,
Yes, you could have. Type the name of the article in the search box and all the previous articles will show up. When you read the correct one, copy its address from your URL bar and paste it into your comment. That’s how I did my comment.
BB
Wanted to post this about my 362 today with a picture but running out of time. Got to get ready for work. Doing a split shift right now because we are short on people. Working half of 2nd shift and half of 3rd shift.
I got my Williams sight with the rear notch mounted today on my 362. Got to shoot only 2 ten shot groups at 25 yards with 5 pumps. The JSB 15.89 pellets won out over the Crosman Premiere hollow points. Got a bit over 3/4″ to 1″ groups. The Premieres were about 1-1/4″ groups.
But I had to mount the sight all the way forward on the steel breech to try to shrink the rear notch opening to more match the 362 front post sight. Still some air gap on each side of the post but livable. Also it works out nice there when I pump my hand goes right behind the sight and my pointing finger goes right in front of the trigger gaurd where the stock is kind of relieved there before the pump handle.
You’ll see what I mean when you see the picture tomorrow when I post it. But got to go now.
Gunfun1, you just gave me an idea to try out. Thanks.
RG
And what might that be?
Here is the picture of my 362 with the William notch sight on the gun.
See where the sight is mounted. All the way forward on the dove tail on the steel breech. And notice that spot in the stock in front of the trigger gaurd. That’s where my pointing finger rests when I’m pumping the gun. That spot also makes it so your finger don’t slip forward and get pinched by the pump handle when it closes.