A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 14

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 13
Part 12
Part 11
Part 10
Part 9
Part 8
Part 7
Part 6
Part 5
Part 4
Part 3
Part 2
Part 1

Airgun Academy videos #19 and #20 are now available.

2011 airgun show calendar
Before I get to the report, here’s a calendar of all the 2011 airgun shows I know of. If you want to go to an airgun show, here they are.

March 5 & 6
Pacific Airgun Expo
Placer County Fairgrounds
Roseville, CA
Contact Jon Brooks @ 707-498-8714
pae@pacificairgunexpo.com

April 9
Flag City Toys That Shoot
Lighthouse Banquet Facility
10055 S.R. 224 West
Findlay, OH 45840
Contacts:
Duane Shaferly @ 419-435-7909
Dave Barchent @ 419-423-0070
Dan Lerma @ 419-422-9121
To register contact:
FlagCityToysThatShoot.com

April 15 & 16
2nd Arkansas Airgun Extravaganza
Fairgrounds, Exit 98A on I-30
1605 Martin Luther King Blvd.
Malvern, AR 72104
Contact Seth Rowland

June 11 & 12
5th CT Airguns Airgun Show
Windsor Elk Lodge
Windsor, CT
Contact Kevin Hull @ 860-649-7599

July 15 & 16
Airgun Show and Shoot
American Legion Post 113
Baldwinsville, NY
Contact Larry Behling @ 315-695-7133

August 21
Daisy Get Together
Kalamazoo County Fairgrounds Expo Center
Kalamazoo, MI
Contacts:
Wes Powers @ 517-423-4148
Bill Duimstra @ 616-738-2425

September 17
St. Louis Airgun Show
Stratford Inn Garden Room
800 S. Hwy. Dr.
Fenton, MO 63026
Contact Gary Anthony @ 636-861-1103

This is the 14th report I have made on the FWB 124. In all that time, I was mostly tracking a single 124 — the one I obtained that had been packed for eternity in a wooden case like an Egyptian sarcophagus. We went through many tunes with that gun and saw what each one did. Then, I tuned a 124 for Mark Taylor, a shooter I met at Roanoke. That one wasn’t planned, but it did give us a look at a later and different rifle.

Today, I’m reporting on the bluebird buy I happened upon while registering a firearm several weeks ago. The guy at the gun store owned this 124 that had suddenly stopped shooting, a fault that is common with this model because of a bad formula of synthetic used in the piston seal. You’ll also see it in FWB 150 and 300 rifles, Walther LGV air rifles and probably a lot of other airguns made back in the 1970s. The fix is to install a new seal. You’ve already seen me do this several times in this series, but the one thing I haven’t shown you is what the old seal looks like when it’s broken up inside the gun, and that’s something all airgunners should know.

I originally thought I was going to tune this for the guy at the store, but he wound up selling me the rifle, so I’ll do both a velocity test after the tune and an accuracy test using the curious little Bushnell scope that came on it.

How the new gun differs from the old
Before I tear into the action, let me report on how this later 124 differs from the ones I have already shown you. The Deluxe models weren’t made when this one was built. It’s called a Sport, but it has a checkered grip and sling swivels, two features from the older Deluxe class. Gone, however, is the Wundhammer palm swell, and the cheekpiece that’s on the left of the butt of this later rifle is so small and ill-formed as to make the rifle nearly ambidextrous. With the ambi-style safety and the ease of breakbarrel loading, it should have been an ambi from the start.

Disassembly
When I tore into the gun, I initially wondered if it had ever been apart. The serial number is 42,648, which places the gun very late in the production cycle. So, it could have been a virgin rifle, but it wasn’t. The mainspring was coated with moly grease, a sure sign that someone has been inside, because the factory used only clear grease. From the look of the tune — moly on the mainspring, an FWB mainspring instead of an aftermarket spring, a replacement FWB piston seal (a Beeman trademark, even though they knew about the disintegration problem) and the trigger adjusted very nice — I believe this rifle was last tuned by Beeman. All those characteristics are the ones Beeman would do. As good as they were, even Beeman could not prevent that piston seal from decomposing. And, that’s what I want to show you.


This is what a decomposing FWB seal looks like. The brown particles you see used to be hard, tough synthetic. Now, they’re soft, waxy particles that break apart easily.


In this view, you see hundreds of smaller particles in the tube; and at the bottom (the end farthest from you in this picture), the top of the piston seal has broken off and wedged itself against the end of the compression chamber. The small hole at the lower right inside the compression chamber is the air transfer port. All of this mess must be removed before the rifle can be tuned.


There isn’t much left of the piston seal after it disintegrates. Most has been left inside the compression chamber, but this root has to be cut out of the piston top. Like most of them, this one popped out easily.

I won’t say anymore about disassembly and reassembly except for one thing. Installing the bolt that holds the trigger assembly in the gun is a tricky job. The trigger assembly has the spring guide and is what keeps the whole powerplant together. The bolt is hardened steel, but the trigger housing into which it threads is softer aluminum. You can easily cross-thread the bolt if you aren’t careful. If you do, the trick is to remove the trigger housing from the gun and carefully thread the bolt into the hole, keeping the head aligned straight. It’ll reset the threads in most cases and you’re home free. You can then assemble the gun, and the bolt will not cross-thread anymore. This is the biggest reason you need a mainspring compressor to do this job.


This large bolt with the two flats for gripping is what holds the 124′s powerplant together. It threads into the soft aluminum trigger housing and can easily be cross-threaded. This photo shows an older 124 trigger assembly, not the one from the newer gun I’m testing in this report…which has an aluminum trigger blade.

Many tunes — final satisfaction
I tried several combinations of springs and piston seals until I settled on the Maccari Mongoose spring and seal. At first, the seal was way too tight, as it’s supposed to be, so I sized it by hand-sanding until it had just a little resistance in the compression tube. The spring was lightly lubed with moly grease, and the seal also got a coat of moly before going back into the gun.

Crosman Premier 7.9 lites
The first pellet I tried with the new tune was the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain “lites.” They’ll be among the most accurate in this rifle; history has proven many times. They averaged 761 f.p.s., with a spread from 752 to 770 f.p.s. The average velocity produced a muzzle energy of 10.13 foot-pounds. All pellets were tight in the breech

RWS Hobbys
Next, I tried RWS Hobbys, a 7-grain pellet that’s the speed-demon of the lead pellet world. They averaged 821 f.p.s., but a curious thing was happening as I shot them. The velocity kept increasing! Shot one went just 767 f.p.s., but the fastest shot among the 10 I fired went 832 f.p.s. With the average working out to 821, you can see that velocity was climbing all the time. I think this tune will wear in to the point that the Premiers will go about 800 f.p.s., and the Hobbys will get up to 860 or so. At the average velocity, the muzzle energy was 10.48 foot-pounds.

Beeman Silver Jets
The last pellet I tested was the vintage Beeman Silver Jets that are no longer available. They were the No. 1 go-to pellet when the 124 was in its heyday. Back in Part 10 of this report, I tested them against the best of today’s pellets, with the result that they weren’t far from the leaders.

The 8-grain Silver Jets averaged 732 f.p.s., with a range from 721 to 747 f.p.s. At the average velocity, they were generating 9.52 foot-pounds.

Trigger
I mentioned that this rifle has a nice trigger. It’s sort of a single-stage, by which I mean that pressure is there immediately when you begin the pull, and there’s no obvious hesitation. It breaks with only 26 oz. of pressure, and it feels like less than a pound. I have to be very careful, because I’m used to three-to-five-pound triggers on the rifles I shoot the most. This one feels like nothing to me.

Most 124 triggers have more creep in them than this one. When I owned Mrs. Beeman’s personal custom 124, the Queen Bee rifle, I found that the Beeman company could really adjust a 124 trigger very finely. Whenever I feel a good one, I always suspect someone from Beeman has been inside.

Well, that’s it for this test. Next time, I’ll see about sighting-in the rifle with that unusual scope.

91 thoughts on “A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 14

  1. B.B.

    Seeing the pictures of that seal, I can better understand the condition of that Model 150. Through the opening in the breech it looked like a bunch of light brown, gummy crumbs. Sort of like the aftermath of giving a baby a ‘Nilla Wafer…

    Waldo1


    • Waldo 1,

      Yes, the 150 seal is just like this one. It was your comments about seeing brown waxy crumbs that made me want to show this to everyone. It is the one good diagnostic for a bad seal in one of these guns.

      Please contact me through blogger@pyramydair.com

      B.B.


  2. B.B. , Vince…

    An update on my Beeman/Norica/Marksman..
    I got ambitious yesterday and tore the Marksman 0035 apart…after fabricating the forked adapter needed for the spring compressor from a piece of PVC pipe.
    The only noticeable difference from Vince’s GT600 was that there was no front spring guide.

    The front end of the spring had a little bend in it and showed signs of rubbing on the inside of the piston. Everything looked pretty dry. The inside of the compression tube was very slick and smooth.

    Cleaned it up, honed the tube enough to give it a bit of texture, and rubbed in some moly. Moly on the piston, seal, and spring. Grease on the spring guide. The spring was installed backwards with the slight bend to the rear.

    Got it back together and sounds good now. Solid ‘thock’ instead of ‘twaaaaannnnngggg’.
    No chrony check yet. Do not expect any real difference. Penetrates a pellet flush or a bit below flush in pine. Cocks with one finger. Trigger feels pretty hard, but I am used to much lighter triggers.

    twotalon


    • My 0035 likes Beeman Lasers. As you know it is not a powerful rifle, but with these pellets it is pretty accurate at 10m. Easy to cock is an understatement.


      • Mine likes the boxed cpl pretty well. They have about the best fit of anything I have tried so far.
        Last time I checked, MV was in the high 500′s. Quite adequate for starlings at close range. A lot of fun to shoot without all the size, weight, and cocking effort of most rifles you find .

        twotalon


        • The “American Acclimatization Society” was founded in 1871 in New York City to assimilate “such foreign varieties of the animal and vegetable kingdom as may be useful or interesting.”[6] The chairman of the organization was Eugene Schieffelin,[7] Bronx resident, pharmacist, noted eccentric, and devoted fan of Shakespeare. It was Schieffelin’s idea that the society should make it a goal to introduce to America every bird mentioned in the works of Shakespeare. Thanks to Hotspur’s concern for his brother-in-law Mortimer, the starling was marked for introduction by the Society.

          There had been previous attempts to introduce the starling to North America,

          …but no records are at hand to show how many or for what purpose. The earliest of these seems to have been at West Chester, Pa., previous to 1850, and the next at Cincinnati, Ohio, in the winter of 1872-73, but nothing further was heard of these or of several subsequent importations. In May, 1889, 20 pairs were released in Portland, Oreg., but the colony did not thrive. A pair or two were still to be found nesting there in 1901, but have not been heard of since about that time.[8]

          Schieffelin’s attempt was more successful. In April, 1890, 80 birds were released by the Society in Central Park, New York City. In March of the following year an additional 80 birds were released.[9] A period of about 10 years was required for the starling to become established around New York City; after that their spread was rapid. By 1928 they had penetrated as far west as the Mississippi, reaching California by 1942.[10] By the mid 1950s there were more than 50 million coast to coast; today they number near 200 million.

          ///////////////

          I don’t think there are enough pellets in the world to kill all those buggers.


          • I had heard that some nut case had brought them over here, but did not research the whole history myself.
            I plug them at every opportunity. If not for imported vermin, life for many airgunners would be pretty boring.

            twotalon


          • Gene,

            Who cares? Let’s try any way! The only good starling is a dead starling.

            Problem is where I now live they are few and far between. Grackles are more readily spotted here and even they are not is great supply.

            Maybe that is because they are shot on sight.

            However, I cannot bring myself to shoot sparrows. Maybe that is because the Bible mentions them as under God’s watchful eye!

            Also maybe because some of them are song birds and I can’t tell the difference between one sparrow and the other.


            • I’d shoot an English Sparrow in a second, with due respect to our brothers over seas. They and the starlings will run our good song birds off the nest. We don’t have too many of either down here, but up in Illinois they both were thick. You are correct we do have “good” sparrows, that look similar.

              Not that I want them here because how they mess up the water ways, but I bet it is a “blast” to shoot nutrias, like they have in Louisiana.


              • I shoot the sparrows and leave them for the neighborhood cats.
                I was letting the starlings pile up out back in the kill zone and a small hawk found them and started eating them. The last storm covered them with a lot of snow and ice, so the hawk has to look somewhere else for food…if you can call starlings food. Must have been desperate to eat those things.

                twotalon



    • I know that honing to ‘rough up’ a cylinder interior is commonly believed to be a good thing to do, but I’m not so sure it’s really necessary. Some time ago I asked Jim Maccarri about it, and he indicated that if honing was going to be done, it ought to be no rougher than 600 grit. And he maintained that the ever-popular crosshatch wasn’t really an issue.


      • I only honed just enough to give it some scratches to help hold moly. It was still mostly glass smooth.

        The hone has had some use, and was set to a light pressure and run at a pretty slow speed. It looked much smoother than the other ones I have taken apart after I roughed it up a bit.

        In other words, I did not beat it to death like I had to do with the Titan.

        twotalon


  3. Morning B.B.,

    Good pictures of the compression chamber. How’d you get such good depth of field in that one?

    Twotalon, don’t you just love that solid thunk rather than the twaaaannngg!

    Bruce


    • Yeah.
      And Dawn detergent and hot water get most of the moly off my hands afterwards too.
      I use up a lot of paper towls on a project like this.

      twotalon


      • twotalon, Have you tried latex gloves? I go through boxes of them every year.( no, I am not a doctor I am a mechanic) They do hinder the handling of very small parts at first but once you get use to them they are great. My hands would be trashed without them. Toby


        • I have some latex gloves somewhere, but seldom use them. Depends on what I may get on my hands.
          Moly is not very hard to wash off compared to some of the things I have gotten into.
          I also have sensitivity problems with my hands.

          twotalon


    • Now if I could just get the 97K to quit buzzing I would be happy.
      If it don’t quit after another tin of pellets I may have to try a Vortek kit.
      At least the screws stopped coming loose.

      twotalon



        • I pulled out the original spring and guide, and replaced it with a Maccari kit. It cut the noise and vibration a bunch, but there is still some remaining buzz. Some tar was added to the spring.
          Originally, the noise and vibration were so bad that I could hear nothing else. Screws would not stay tight and it ate a 4-16 Centerpoint scope in 500 pellets.
          Now I can hear the muzzle blast followed by a short buzz. Muzzle blast is a quick ‘snap’. Screws are staying tight after the last loctite session ( when the kit was installed). The BSA Tactical Stealth is hanging in there solid. MV mid 800′s with FTT. Cocks harder than with the original spring. MV is a bit higher than original (lower 800′s).

          This is the rifle I was head shooting yellow jackets with last fall. Accuracy has not changed as far as I can tell, but at least I don’t fear the horrid noise and vibration that would come with every shot. That alone makes it easier to shoot. And I don’t have to tighten the main screw in front of the trigger every 40-50 shots.

          Pretty sure I will get the Vortek kit with seal. Have the plastic thread locker that I will use next time I have to do anything.

          twotalon


      • twotalon,

        The solution is a tighter fit of all the moving parts. And Vortek used to do that better than anyone. And don’t forget to use a buttoned piston.

        As for moly on the hands, I use GOJO, a waterless hand cleaner. First I use it, then I use the Dawn and then after that I tell Edith to pretend I’m with the crew that paves the highway and I always come home with a little asphalt on my hands. That moly is insidious!

        B.B.


    • Bruce,

      Mac taught me the best focal point for max depth of field is one-third of the distance from the camera. Of course the lens must be stopped down to the maximum, which in my Cannon G11 is F8. But in a digital, F8 is about like F22.

      And then I had to use the Unsharp Mask feature in PhotoShop, because the picture really isn’t this clear.

      B.B.


  4. BB,

    thanks for re-posting those show dates. They’re on my calendar now as both are within striking distance for me. Maybe I can sell something this time and not buy several rifles although I think an FWB 124 would add to my collection…..

    Fred PRoNJ


  5. Everyone,

    We are experiencing a problem with this post. The Arkansas Airgun Extravaganza listing is not posting, for some reason. Seth Rowland is the contact for that show, not for the Connecticut show.

    The complete info is the show is running on April 15 & 16. Edith has fixed it now, so for you earlybirds, there is one additional airgun show. Clear your cache and reload today’s blog.

    B.B.


  6. BB,

    A bit off topic, but I just got a an Industry AR 2078 which is the same as the TF 79 you bought. I bought it from Mike Melick and he did some extra stuff for me.

    However I am seeing the same kind of “groups” you are seeing. One pellet shot like your RWS hobbies did, but it was the RWS Miesterkulgen. The rest kinda scattered them hither, thither, and yon! Unfortunately, I am out of all the RWS target pellets and most other target pellets after shooting the using different techniques.

    I hope to check it out with a scope mounted today to see if it will group with a good scope.

    My initial impression is that it is the sights themselves as I cannot get a good sight picture with the front aperture sent with the gun.

    Can’t wait to see how yours groups with a scope.


    • pcp4me
      I bought my AR2078 with some “extra stuff” too (H.P. bolt probe, HDD, new transfer seal, longer bolt handle etc). Chrony fps with Gamo Match is 720-ish.

      My AR2078 from Archer has no open sights but does have added scope rail. I’m using Leapers 3-9x X 40AO scope. Best 5 shot group at 10 meters so far is .290″ c-t-c. Avg groups are .370″-ish or about two pellet diameters with occasional Gamo flyers (R10 pellets seem to do better about flyers). A fair amount of shots are dead into the 10 ring, I am sure my groups are a product of my offhand capability or lack of, because when I bench-rest it at 10 meters, it’s basically one ragged hole in the target card about .25″ at the widest point.

      I was also surprised at the groups posted on BBs TF79 report, as they have no relation at all to the gun I have been shooting with the arguably cheap Gamo pellets


    • pcp4me,

      I tested the TF 79 thoroughly yesterday and came to the conclusion that it is inaccurate. I am sending it back for a replacement. I recommend you do likewise. I tried every trick in my book and nothing worked.

      B.B.


      • BB,

        Just finished testing it with a scope about half hour ago and same results. Have contacted MM about getting it fixed.

        Best I could do was 0.5″ at 25′ rested even with a scope. My worst groups with the others I owned were better than that. Best groups were like 0.1 – 0.2″ ctc.

        Waiting to hear from Mike now.


  7. B.B., are you sniffing the air to go out to an airgunshow?

    Victor, if you’re not looking at the target I take it that you are looking at the front sight? Mike, that is interesting about CQB shooting and looking at the target. It seems to me that CQB is very heavily subdivided into just how much it is based on instinct. There are controlled pairs and “hammers” and different versions of the flash sight picture. At one extreme there is Lucky McDaniel who used no sights at all. The best method for me (as applied to airguns, not the real thing) is the Rex Applegate method of looking at the target and swinging up the extended arm like a pump handle and releasing the shot when the gun breaks the line of sight. There it’s not really clear if you are looking at the target or at gun alignment. That is really something to work as a corrections officer and an unappreciated part of law enforcement in my view. At least patrolling officers have a chance of not running into criminals whereas corrections deal with them all the time. Did you ever have to haul off and throw a Tae Kwon Do high kick? You may have heard of the recent MMA contest featuring Anderson Silva and Vitor Belfort which turned entirely on a high kick. That seems to me to answer any criticisms of the utility of high kicking…in the right circumstances.

    Victor, “short cutting” is not a term I would apply to Bruce Lee but almost the opposite–a kind of consuming obsession. I wouldn’t be surprised if overintensity is what made his brain finally explode. He did play fast and loose with traditional methods, but most agree that he didn’t advocate doing anything you want. His best statement that I’ve heard was for “unnatural naturalness and natural unnaturalness.” Hm, could we be getting at the surprise break here? :-) But apart from suggestive comments like this his ideas as well as his life seem to have kind of dead-ended and didn’t really lead to much in martial arts development.

    PeteZ, those are interesting comments on the scientific merit of the Cardews. And they are reminiscent of my reaction to Horace Mann and his book, The Bullet’s Flight From Powder to Target. There were certainly the trappings of the backyard crank poking out there, and the fact that the author apparently died of a broken heart from the poor reception of his very muddled book is incongruous, though no less tragic. But this all makes me think about the implicit scientific standard here. Could it be that what we are seeing is not bad science but a primordial stage of any creative scientific effort with its unavoidable messiness? Einstein himself claimed that he had gone down endless blind alleys on his way to discovery; he just waited on publishing until he was right. Then there was his cosmological constant that he considered his greatest mistake which may turn out to have something going for it after all under the latest iteration of string/M theory. And there is his fruitless wandering in search of a unified theory. Newton also comes to mind. Apparently his version of calculus with its fluxions is very difficult and unwieldy compared to the later Leibnizian notation in use today. Considering the innovative work of the airgun scientists and the lack of peer review and any kind of support, maybe they did about the best that could be expected.

    Matt61


    • Matt,

      I already have two tables reserved at the Arkansas show. I will be hard to hold back this year, after all the setbacks I’ve had.

      B.B.


    • Matt61 and Pete Z,

      Your reference to Bruce Lee’s comment about, “unnatural naturalness and natural unnaturalness,” makes me think about one of my favorites, attributable to no one in particular, which is, “a feeling of unresolved discontent.” Such feelings keep us going forward, but can also lead to heart attacks, LOL.

      The Cardews’ book, to me, is a collection of clever experiments, done on a budget and before availability of computers for such efforts. Dynamic modeling with current software of something as complex as a springer is very difficult. Very messy, as you say. The old saying of garbage in, garbage out definitely applies. Even with the best of programs, describing all the actions taking place within the system is only the beginning. Collection of empirical data must always be done to verify the accuracy of the model. And often, it is almost impossible to determine which aspect of the model is incorrect. Tweaks to the model, more testing. Think of something as seemingly straightforward as the resistance/friction of the pellet in the barrel. We’ve all pushed pellets through a barrel with a dowel and probably tried to measure the force to keep it moving. Was it 1/2 pound; was it 2-1/2 pounds? Slowly, no heat buildup. What about the friction as the pellet accelerates at over 500,000g? A lot of heat generated, and how does the coefficient of kinetic friction change as the pellet heats up? Over 50% of the energy is disappearing in a lot more places than heat. Very messy.
      Lloyd


    • Matt61,

      Yes, I agree, shortcuts were not Bruce Lee’s personal style. That wasn’t what I meant, but I’m sure it seemed that way because of the proximity of my words. However, Bruce Lee was known to poo-poo traditional formal martial arts training, by characterizing it as somewhat of a waste of time. I’ve seen interviews in which he’s actually said or implied such things. I couldn’t disagree with him more. Again, so many who offer “a better way, faster, path to beat someone up”, were first a product of that same traditional formal training. Where I do connect the “short cut” mentality (again, not that Mr. Lee personally ever took short cuts), and Bruce Lee is the fact that because he was so influential in the martial arts community, his words likely helped to fuel a misguided mentality that has led some to justify “short cut” training philosophy. There are obvious differences between good martial arts programs and poor ones. In general, the better the school, the tougher the training. The lessor dojo’s even cut corners on form itself with simpler less exaggerated moves. It’s very difficult to make a business out of martial arts, unless you cut some corners. Like shooting, the best are fiercely competitive, and there’s a lot of pride at stake. You can’t easily run a business if you’re working your students to the point of passing out, AND THEN demanding them to do their kata’s perfectly. There are many examples that I can give, but I won’t here.

      At the same time, as a one-time advanced shooter, I do understand why Bruce Lee felt as he did. The difference is that I believe that ONLY the advanced student can justify deviating from certain fundamental teachings, and at that level, each person is going to be different. So whatever Bruce Lee thought was “best”, may not be for the next “better” martial artist, and so it goes. Every floor of a building must have a common foundation.

      Victor


    • Matt61, yes, you watch the front sight, or the cross hairs. You see the target in your peripheral vision.
      I found in my force on force training that the more threat the target is to you, the less likely you will look at the front sight instead of the target. I have years and years of pratice shooting and watching the front sight but when the threat is close, you can’t stop your self. You look at the target. So, you plan for this and learn to use techniques that will work with it. Shooting trap, skeet, or sporting clays helps since when you shoot a shotgun at a moving target, the correct method is to watch the target, not the front bead. In fact, you must learn to do that if you want to hit with any regularity.
      Think of it this way. When you drive your car, do you look at the hood or at the road? Now, that said, as the distance to the target opens up and you are shooting a rifle, handgun, etc., watching the front sight works very well and is almost necessary to insure hits.

      As to using high kicks during my days in Corrections, never. Mostly the simple things worked. Most often a basic block followed by a grappling technique as taught in Pressure Point Control Tactics and perhaps a stun/strike. Most common strikes were the Biracial Plexus Origin (Located on the side of the neck) and the Common Peritoneal (Located mid thigh on the side of the leg). Contrary to popular belief, verbal skills were used much more often that physical ones. Most days were calm, not much happening. Most of the time you were too close to use a kick since prisoners were every where. Example: The housing unit floor I worked had 78 prisoners and me and they were not locked up since this was a medium security prison. So, you needed a lot more than physical skills to make it work.

      Mike


  8. B.B.,

    Would molly paste be a good way to improve on a barrels accuracy (firearm or airgun)? My thoughts are that it would help with the polishing process. Rifle barrel experts say that over time a rifle’s barrel gets more accurate because thousands of rounds help to polish it. What are your thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Victor


    • Victor, I don’t think you’ll find that moly is a good polishing compound. Quite the opposite, in fact. Polishing requires the use of a very mild abrasive that removes the peaks of all the microscopic bumps and ridges that make a surface appear dull. Moly is not such an abrasive.


      • Vince,

        I ask because every claim that I’ve read, pertaining to the benefits of using moly on polished surfaces (e.g., triggers/sears), is that not only do meeting surfaces glide across each other better, but also that the moly bonds with the metal such that it fills in microscopic pits, creating a smoother surface. I realize now that we’re talking about the difference between lubricating and polishing, but the part about filling in microscopic pits, making the surface smoother, seems to be similar to what you’d want to accomplish by polishing. Maybe “polishing” was the wrong word to use, but would it help with barrel accuracy in a way similar to shootings lots of rounds?

        In addition to this, I wonder if this is an alternate way of lubricating, as opposed to lubricating pellets or bullets, themselves?

        Thanks,
        Victor


        • I don’t think I would want to try it with a good barrel.
          Let’s say you have a crap barrel that you have polished as best you can, and it still shoots poorly and leads up fast. A situation where you have nothing to lose. Then you might try it.

          Hard to tell what the results would be on a good or bad barrel….that’s why I would not want to do it with a good barrel.
          There would probably be less tendency to lead up but you also would change friction, vibration patterns, and possibly the pressure curve. Could help or hurt in the long run.

          This is not the same thing as trying different lubes. You want to change lubes, you can clean the barrel and start over again. I don’t know if there is any good way to get rid of moly once it sticks.

          twotalon


    • If you want to polish a barrel, then don’t get moly in it. It sticks to metal and reduces friction. Polish first if you want to polish.
      Try polishing trigger parts after moly was applied….don’t work too good.

      twotalon


    • Victor,

      I don’t think moly improves accuracy at all. It can affect velocity, though in an airgun it will be a very small effect, but accuracy shouldn’t change.

      B.B.


    • Thanks guys,

      I was just throwing it out. I’m no gunsmith (obviously), but have read many articles and reviews in which the writers have talked about how their guns shoot better now than they did 30 or 40 years ago. The common conclusion is that firing thousands of rounds through a good barrel ultimately polishes that barrel, making it better than new. Well, knowing that moly is used to improve on how metal parts glide against each, and how it fills tiny spaces, it seemed somewhat reasonable that it might also help with accuracy, but I guess not.

      Yes, I agree that this would NOT be something that I’d want to try on a good barrel.

      Thanks again,
      Victor


    • Victor,
      As the others have said, moly would probably actually prevent any polishing from taking place. I like to let sears and linkages wear in a little bit before applying moly — not only does that show you where moly will do the most good, it also helps debur the parts and assures they fit together tightly.

      Some C/F BR competitors may use moly in the barrel ( or on the bullet? I’m not sure right now, but I know moly isn’t as popular a practice as it was once), but their bores are highly polished before they fire the first shot. Just thought I would mention that, as I didn’t see it in the other posts (but I may have missed something).


      • BG_Farmer,

        So my idea isn’t entirely insane! Well, based on the responses, it doesn’t sound like a good idea for good reasons.

        Thanks,
        Victor


  9. I’ve had a miserable week so haven’t post lately. Death of a pet and fire in the kitchen, night time does bring peace so here is a quote:

    “Night, the beloved. Night, when words fade and things come alive. When the destructive analysis of day is done, and all that is truly important becomes whole and sound again. When man reassembles his fragmentary self and grows with the calm of a tree.”
    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    rikib


    • rikib,

      I’m sorry for your loss. We know that pets are family, and more important, like children. They except us with unconditional love, and we find great comfort in that. They are a blessing.

      Beautiful poem. With night comes peace.

      Peace be with you,
      Victor



    • rikib,

      Losing a pet is hard. Been there. Hopefully, your other furry friends will comfort you.

      Hope the scorched kitchen is easily reparable.

      Edith


    • Just wanted to thank you all for your sympathy. The really hard part about the loss of one of our cats was that, it was done by we believe two of our dogs and they had been living together for about 7 years. We normally never leave the home together, but business required both of us. We took the cat to the vet immediately but there wasn’t much hope, so we had him put down he was paralyzed.
      The fire only destroyed the stove/oven and rangehood, ceiling and walls need painting. Insurance is covering most everything, just taking time. But we are blessed that the damage was limited, thank God for fire extinguishers.

      Once again, thanks all for the sympathy!

      rikib :)


      • My wife would have let the fire spread a little before putting it out or letting me put it out so we would have to redo the whole kitchen, new appliances wouldn’t have been enough for her.

        I’m sorry for you and that poor cat.

        J-F


        • J-F,
          Letting a fire spread a little! I can only hope you are joking. No, when I first opened the oven and the flames burst out, instincts took over. I’m a retired Navy man so it was basically “All Hands On Deck!”. I got the fire extinguisher and had the wife stand to the side and pry the oven open with a broom handle while I blasted the flames, oven still glowing so I cut the circuit breaker. Made for one helluva mess! We did not suffer any structural damage. We could use all new appliances but, we’ll settle for the new stove/oven and paint job.

          rikib :)


          • You have my sincere sympathy for the loss of your cat. I understand the bond we have with them, it is very much like that with one’s children.

            As to your fire, congratulations on keeping it confined.

            Les


  10. B.B.,

    Need your advice, yet again: Several big heavy ducks waddle up the grass from the lake behind my mother’s place and poop all over the yard and pool deck, get into her flower beds and generally make a nuisance of themselves. She chases them away with a broom stick and they lumber into the air, circle around and splash down on the lake or perch on her deck over the lake, where they quack their outrage at her. Five minutes later, they’re back.

    Unfortunately, the alligators in the lake are too lazy and too well fed to take care of the problem. So, I have decided to take my trusty 1377 and start teaching them lessons they’ll hopefully never forget. Since I have no intentions of plucking and cooking them, I was wondering if two or three pumps (rather than ten!) would teach said lessons, and what pellet would be the best. i.e., I want to scare heck out of them and make ‘em feel the pinch but not really hurt them. (If I did, I’d simply take my RWS 350 and be done with them.)

    Thanks,
    AlanL


    • AlanL,
      I have no experience with this, but what crossed my mind was using cleaning (felt) pellets as stingers. Don’t know if it would work or not, just a thought.

      rikib


    • Alan,

      I think it is a pretty basic rule not to shoot anything you do not intend to kill. You should try some sort of noisemaker instead. If you really want to kill them, use the highest-powered airgun you have and take head shots.

      Try to be discreet, and be sure to eat the evidence.

      Les


      • Les,
        I stand corrected. You are right in not shooting at anything you don’t intend to kill. Even a felt pellet can harm an animal, whether intentional or not. Forgive me for my lapse in through thought.

        rikib


      • Denizen of the Desert,

        Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately a noisemaker is ineffective on these large ducks. In fact, you’ll find that in general the larger the bird the less prone to be scared by noise they are. In addition, I intend to rattle only the ducks, not the neighbors too. So I’m back to my airgun. While any airgun is dangerous of course, I pride myself on the fact that while I’m no Mac or Kevin, or any one of the other superb shots on this blog, by now I can hit the side of a barn if I try. The ducks are large, fat, and very well bundled in feathers, and the range is short. So I’m fairly confident I can avoid a head shot, and the real point of my question is to poll this blog’s experience on how many pumps on a 1377 can be counted on to accomplish the stinging task reasonably safely.

        Rikib, I think your suggestion of felt cleaning pellets is an excellent one. Thank you.

        -AlanL




        • AlanL,
          My two cents, even though you’re already shopping for an airsoft pistol. If this ends up to not be for your benefit maybe it will be for others contemplating “harmless” animal control: The cleaner pellet might sound like a good idea but how accurate can one be with a cleaner pellet? They aren’t the most aerodynamically designed projectile. What starts out as an a** shot could easily end up a head shot and do more damage than you intended. Another word of caution: are ducks in season in your area and have you purchased a duck stamp? There may be legal ramifications if one of your neighbors happens to glance over at the wrong time and gets indignant. Your actions could be construed as duck hunting by the DNR. OK, there, I took all the fun out of it!

          -Chuck


    • Alan,

      Never, never, never use an airgun to “discipline” animals. It only injures them.

      That said, a low-powered airsoft gun, one that shoots less than 200 f.p.s. at the muzzle, will discourage them safely. Get an accurate $25 spring pistol and you can do the job.

      B.B.



        • AlanL

          I suggest trying the Crosman M74 mini auto airsoft gun. My boys have them, and it fits the bill perfectly. It is small, clear, and unthreatening, and can shoot almost 2 rounds per second. It only hits about 130 fps so no real harm unless it hits an eye.

          Order .12 gram biodegradable ammo and you will be all set. You might even find it to be fun!

          Alan in MI


          • Alan in MI,
            All this talk about AirSoft has me curious, on PA the Crosman M74 comes in a package deal with a Stinger P36, called the Crosman Urban Mission Pack at a good price. They are low powered at about 175-200 fps. For about the same price I could get a TSD Sports 1911 (co2) airsoft, rated at 400 fps.
            I own a modified 2240 and was just wondering what an adult would use an “AirSoft” for, other than what we have been talking about with the ducks? I’m not trying to be a smart*.*, just wondering if I might want to purchase one.

            rikib :)


        • I was about to mention them too, but wasn’t sure what type… My older UTG M14 AEG punctures cardboard with.20gm balls at 14 feet, so apparently that is not recommended (and I have the distinct feeling that this isn’t the fastest thing around; my gas blow-back pistol feels a LOT faster).

          Maybe one of the cheap spring powered pistols (though not so cheap as to have no hop-up feature at all) that come with a “sticky” target, and practice to learn the trajectory.


          • Wufraed,

            Your UTG rifle shoots considerably faster than 400 f.p.s. The guns I was recommending shoot around 130-160 f.p.s. with a lighter BB. A big difference in power.

            B.B.


            • If it weren’t for the fact that the Great & Glorious People’s Republic of California has already converted to CFLs I’d probably have chronographed it; I do have a nearly untouched Shooting Chrony Beta Master (I am NOT going to swap those two words) but the lighting in my apartment would kill its responses.

              I suspect it just feels slow because one has to wait out the motor cycle on each trigger squeeze in semi-auto mode. Wonder if that’s what firing a wheel-lock was like…


              • I’ve used a chrony with CFL’s as the light source, and generally it worked pretty well. I don’t think they have the same flicker issue as the old tubes did.


  11. Alan L,

    Glad to see you’re not going to use your 1377 to “sting” your problem ducks. I’ve killed two crows with mine. One in a tree at maybe 10 yards from an upstairs widow with the gun pumped up three times. The second at around 15 yards with the gun at 6 pumps.

    If your ducks are any type of wild ones they are protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Act. You sure don’t want to shoot one out of season with a pistol. If you know anyone with a paint ball gun, it’ll work well for chasing your ducks away.

    Bruce


    • Bruce,

      They’re fat, tame and ugly. They’re virtually pests in all the lakes around South Fla. They couldn’t be further from wild if they tried. They barely fly. And nobody I know has ever eaten one. That’s how well off we are in this country. I guarantee you, if this was Haiti or Sudan there would be nary a feather visible anywhere. Instead, they plague us with their half-cigar sized poop deposits all over the place.

      -AlanL


      • Alan,

        A good argument for not shooting those ducks with a pellet gun is, what will happen to whatever eats the dead duck? Lead is not a good ingredient for a meal, as anyone who has ever bitten down on a shotgun pellet knows. Ingesting lead might even be harmful to those gators.

        Of course, if you really attempt to kill them with head shots, you can avoid the lead in the meat problem. Another problem might develop.

        Did you ever see how a chicken reacts when its head is chopped off? It is quite spectacular. Apt to draw the attention of the neighbors. A duck might react the same way.

        I used to have a Daisy airsoft pistol that was reasonably accurate. I could hit those skinny little orange juice cans at 20 feet indoors. But I doubt if it would make much impression on a well-padded duck. If you hit the duck where it isn’t padded (the head), you risk injuring its eye.

        I learned the hard way about shooting animals when I was a kid on a farm. My father could not understand why the pigs he was trying to fatten weren’t gaining weight. Then one afternoon he caught me “buffalo hunting” with my Daisy Western Carbine. Of course, the BB’s couldn’t penetrate their tough hide, but they would run squealing to the far end of the pig pen when I pinged them on the ham. It was great fun for a little kid, and the pigs got a lot of exercise. I had my gun taken away for a while, but I bet the pigs didn’t forget.

        The big birds are not intimidated by sound. I drive trains, and sometimes I’ll go past a golden eagle who refuses to give up his fencepost perch even as the locomotives pass a few yards from him.

        Les



    • SL,

      I did, and…. it’s still in the box! I have yet to find the moment to open the carton from Pyramyd, but I admit I’ve getting antsy lately, knowing I need to put a drop of Pelgun on the seal and keep a pump or two in it… Come to think of it, I hope everything turns out okay because my 30 days have already expired… yikes!

      AlanL


  12. BB,
    If you find the time could you provide info about AirSoft guns, their purposes, uses, ranges of fps. Why would I want one if I have a pellet gun? Just wondering what an AirSoft gun is useful for I guess, other than training children to shoot safely. Do I have a use for one, they are relatively inexpensive.

    rikib


  13. Hey BB. Been a while since I’ve been on the PA blog. I have read through you 13 part FWB Sporter blog and saw where you has considered haveing some work done on a compression tube that would true up the tapering towards the transfer port. I have in fact had this performed by Paul Watts on my 127 Sporter and the results were a much smoother cocking and firing rifle. It was explained to me that this tapering was the result of the two part construction of the early Sporter comp tubes. Having the comp the sunnen honed corrected for this. Before I sent the comp tube to Paul, I was only getting around 640 to 660 fps. After the comp tube work had been performed, my velocity went up the the 700 fps range with 13.4 falcon pellets and around 685 with 14.5 RWS SD’s. So if you or anybody is hesitant about having this done on an early model Sporter for the sake of collectabity, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. I say go for it!!!! You won’t be sorry you did it. Jake


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