by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Beeman R1 Supermagnum air rifle.
This report covers:
- New tune more accurate?
- A nondescript scope
- Various holds
- The R1 wants to shoot!
- Air Arms domes
- RWS Superdomes
- H&N Baracuda Match
- The rifle’s feel
- Where are we?
Today I start testing my tuned Beeman R1. The R1 has always been a twitchy spring rifle for me. I have gotten some good groups and I have also failed miserably. The rifle is not at fault, because it can stack pellets on top of one another — at least at 25 yards. But it is super sensitive to small variations in the hold. In fact, this R1 I am testing for you is the one that inspired the artillery hold, two decades ago.
New tune more accurate?
Is the rifle easier to shoot accurately, now that it has been tuned? No so far. It’s still very sensitive to slight variations in the hold, as I learned in this session.
I used today’s test to get used to the rifle once again. You will see from past reports that I haven’t shot this air rifle very much in the past 10 years. One of the last times I tried it on targets was at the end of a 13-part report I did back in 2006. I was still shooting 5-shot groups back then and my results in Part 13 aren’t anything to shout about. So my work is cut out for me.
A nondescript scope
Just to get started I mounted a nondescript 4-12X40 scope on the rifle. I mounted it because it fit the only rings I had for the airgun. I need to get some 1-inch and 30mm scope rings to upgrade this scope before we go too much farther, but this nameless scope was good enough for a first try.
Various holds
My first question was how to hold the rifle. Did the tune change what it likes? Seemingly not, as I found it responded to my off hand resting under the cocking slot about halfway up the forearm. I tried several holds, including shooting directly off a sandbag. All of that took about 30 shots and 3 different pellets.
The R1 wants to shoot!
I will shoot at 25 yards today. The R1 should be able to hold its own at that distance.
With every pellet I tried the rifle would stack several pellets in the same hole, then toss the next one an inch or more away. The direction of spread was mostly vertical, but there was some sideways dispersion, as well. Most of my 10-shot groups look horrible. But as I refined the hold, I started to get consistency.
Air Arms domes
The first pellets that started to settle down for me were the Air Arms Field domes. Ten went into 0.923 inches at 25 yards, which isn’t that good. However, compared to what the gun had done up to this point it was encouraging.
Ten Air Arms domes went into 0.923-inches at 25 yards. I’m starting to get a handle on the rifle.
RWS Superdomes
Next I tried some RWS Superdomes. I didn’t remember them being that good in the past, but they are a premium pellet, so what the heck. To my surprise, Superdomes were the least twitchy in the R1. They did make the powerplant buzz a bit, though. But they seem to want to shoot straight in this rifle. Ten of them went into 0.695-inches at 25 yards. This group is more open than I would like at 25 yards, but for this rifle it is significant improvement. It turned out to be the tightest group of this session.
Ten RWS Superdomes went into 0.695-inches at 25 yards. This was the best group of this session.
H&N Baracuda Match
The last pellet I was successful with in this session was the H&N Baracuda Match. I knew from past experience that my R1 favors this pellet. The group I got was the largest of the 3 I’m reporting, but witjhin it are 7 shots that went into 0.414-inches. That was the level of accuracy I was hoping for!
Two of the three pellets that landed outside that main group were from shots that I knew were not held right. I wasn’t completely relaxed. Unfortunately, the pellet that went farthest from the main group was from a shot I thought was perfect. So there is still some learning to do.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets made this 1.05-inch group at 25 yards. Seven of those pellets are in 0.414-inches. That’s the sort of accuracy I expected. Two of the three pellets that aren’t in the group were from shots that I know were held wrong, but the lowest shot (arrow) was held perfectly.
The rifle’s feel
I have to comment on how much I enjoy this new tune. The rifle now cocks butter-smooth and the lockup with the trigger is instantaneous. In the past I had to pull the barrel past the point of cocking to make sure things were latched, but it all works now.
The trigger is set too heavy for me. I am used to a lighter release.
I can actually feel a difference in the way some pellets shoot. Some are very smooth while others have a bit of harshness.
I got to shoot the rifle a lot during this test — over 70 shots in all. That was the first time I really got to feel the action as it now works.
I really like how positive the safety is. A Weihrauch factory safety can be pretty vague, but this one is very positive and crisp.
Where are we?
We are not finished with the R1 at 25 yards yet. I won’t be satisfied until I have a scope of my choosing mounted. Also, while this test taught me which pellets to use and how the rifle likes to be held, I believe some refinement can be made. Until, that happens, I will not advance to 50 yards.
I will lighten the trigger for the next test. The next test will be at 25 yards with a new scope, the two pellets that did best today (H&N Baracuda Match and RWS Superdomes) and a lighter trigger.
Hate posting on different topics but I’d appreciate some ideas on which way to go.
I presently have a RWS 36, (34 with upgraded stock). I shoot it quite a bit and pretty often, even had to replace the spring which broke after who knows how many pellets. (Was able to do so thanks to B.B.’s advice. Thanks again.) The gun still shoots great but I’d like to upgrade to something a bit more accurate and easier to shoot. IE not so picky on hold. I don’t compete or hunt, just plink. I live in the country on 10 acres so noise isn’t a problem. I’m looking at four possible additions to my battery. Benjamin Discovery, Walther LGU, Walther LGV, and AA TX200.
I know the Discovery really isn’t in the same class as the other two but most of what I’ve read says it is as or more accurate than the others. I can’t afford a better PCP due to needing the added air source. The hand pump will work easily with the Discovery and keep the cost down. I also like that I can sling the gun more easily. I went to an Appleseed, made rifleman, and I’m sold on using a shooting sling for field positions. Don’t think the springers would work very well using a sling and be pretty hard to attach.
The absolute minimum accuracy I’m willing to accept would be being able to consistently shot empty shot shell hulls at 25 yards from a rest or braced position. Something I can easily do with my AR. Fifty yards would be even better and what I really want. The 36 will do the 25 yard challenge now if I scope it, which I will do to the new gun. Also love shooting at prickly pear apples. When you hit them they “bleed” so nicely.
There is also something about having a superlative gun, which the springers would be.
I think all the mentioned guns will do fine in the minimum accuracy department. What about 50 yards? In your and other readers’ opinion, which would I enjoy the most.
Wharvey,
Welcome to the blog.
Yes, all these rifles will meet your minimum accuracy requirement. The TX 200 will surprise you, I think. And so will the Discovery — my how easy it is to shoot well.
Of the 4 rifles I would select the TX first, then it’s between the Discovery and the LGV.
Whatever you get, be sure to share it with us.
B.B.
Wharvey,
I have the Discovery and have equipped it with a noise reducer. Otherwise, it’s about as loud as a .22. Since you’re also considering some higher end rifles, if you have access to someone with a compressor and don’t mind getting a SCUBA tank (or just use a pump), put the Marauder on your list. I’ve found it to be a bit more accurate than the Discovery. The other plus is it uses a 10 round magazine (.117 and .22) so once the mag is loaded, you’re not fumbling to insert a pellet into the breech after every shot. It is also adjustable for power which means you can extend the number of shots on a single air charge in addition to the power you want the rifle to put out. You really have a tough decision here 🙂
Fred DPRoNJ
wharvy,
amaongst other airrifles, ive got an lgv in .22
if you have any questions, just ask!
Warvey, All seem like good choices. You might also consider the Walther Terrus Air Rifle. BB got good results out of it and wasn’t hold sensitive. Oh and it’s priced good too! It cost a lot more, but the Diana 340 N-TEC Classic Air Rifle did well for BB too. Good luck.
B.B.
Does a tune like this have a break in period? With over 1000 shots through it my 34P is now shooting much better than it did out of the box. But I also think part of the improvement is me learning my new gun. Last time out out I actually had one super fine ten shot group where 7 shots grouped in a .386″ group and the other 3 brought the final to .52″grouping @ 25 yards. Keep thinking my hold as not quite the same on the wide ones.
David
David,
I believe a tune can require a break-in. And yes to getting familiar with the gun. That always helps.
B.B.
Sounds alot like the 46e I just got. I did tune it. The shot cycle did get better. But still getting inconsistent groups after the tune.
The 46 does not want to be held at all. It likes rested on the bag or bi-pod with no hand supporting the stock in the front. My trigger hand I even hold loosely. Maybe a slight, slight touch of my thumb at the back of the stock.
If I hold it loose like I just said it is on the money. Try to tighten up and you would think somebody handed you a different gun to shoot if you look at groups from both type of holds. I haven’t had one like this that’s for sure.
Now that I know how to shoot it. It’s my go to gun. I got it sitting out to grab for some quick shots whenever I can squeeze them in.
GF1,
46e? Maybe I have not had enough coffee yet. No bells are ringing.
That’s the underlever with a flip open breech he discovered was packed full of grease in the compression chamber.
I could see it taking a while to burn off that mess.
Reb
When I took the 46e apart to see why it was just lobbing the pellet to the target one shot and not even making it. To the next shot hitting 5″ high on my target stop.
It had a ton of goop everywhere in it. I’m surprised I could even get it to cock. But before it went back together trust me everything was thoroughly cleaned before reassembly.
And yes it is now a very accurate and fun gun to shoot since I figured out what it wants me to do and spiffed it up a bit inside. It is two completely different guns in the way it groups from when I got it to the way it shoots now after I figured out the hold.
Some of these air guns just want some time and tender loving care and they finally come around and surprise you.
I had my QB-88 dialed in but oiled it over the weekend and now the groups are still tight but hitting about 2″ higher at 10yds. Sticking to the house until my breakfast calms down a bit but now it’s lunchtime and there’s a brat hollering my name
RR
Here’s a link from a blog BB did. The guns not made any more./blog/2005/10/diana-rws-46-a-german-underlever/
After I finished my first cup, I dug around and found what you were talking about. When you get tired of fooling around with it, let me know and we might be able to work something out on it. 😉
RR
It’s in .22 caliber. I like it alot. No sliding breech to get get your loading finger chopped off.
And the gun is very simple to take apart and reassemble.
Plus it sends them ferrel cans flying when you hit them.
Gunfun,
My 34P likes a loose hold on the trigger hand also, middle finger and thumb lightly, ring finger and pinkie not in contact with the grip. I’ll try bag resting the gun later this week when it’s not raining.
David
David
Make sure you let me know how your 34p does resting on the bag.
And you wouldn’t believe all the holds I tryed on the 46e before I figured out how it wanted to shoot.
It went from me not really liking the gun to loving to shoot it now.
I had some other lower cost spring and nitro guns and they would just never group good with any holds. All I got to say is you just got to keep trying when you get one of these air guns. They will surprise you as I’m sure you know. But they are fun to shoot when you get them figured out.
Gunfun,
I got a few guns I’d like to leave out in the rain couldn’t make the any worse. Top on that list is my Benji NP Tail. Wish i skipped over it and got a 34 or 34P in the first place.
David
David
I had a couple NP Trails also. And feel the same as you.
But I’m glad I did get to experience all the guns I tryed throughout time. It definitely makes you appreciate when you get a good one.
And like I said before if you get a good one you better not let it get away. It just might not come back.
For a cheap springer the ruger impact 22 is pretty good, its a 34 copy just like the airhawks and started out the same, mostly because of the trigger and breaking in, I had to hold it like a shotgun tight to the shoulder to get through the trigger pull but surprisingly had a few good groups that way. I finally tuned it and found a longer adjustment screw and lighter springs for the trigger and after finding the sweet spot for the screw it now pulls 3/8″ first stage and stops then its just a tiny bump sends it real smooth. I can now hold it lightly artillery hold. I havent gotten a target out past 15yds but its .25-.5 on a bad day therw and out at about 30yds can hit a 2″x.75″ piece of chalk, which is a great reactive and cheap target, btw.
RDNA
Have you got a chance to shoot a AirArms TX 200 MRKlll yet?
I havent had a chance with anything! I just started shooting again since I went radio silence, I was trying to move then moving, then settling in and summer stuff and now things have slowed down and its practically snowing. Im hoping to get on the dark side for some real hunting at the distances all my opportunities seem to come at, just out of springer range! Ive only ever fought with cheap springers and its getting old, I know a tx isnt a cheap springer but trying a pcp that can reliably take woodchuck at 75 yds is something I have lots of hope to do. Woodchuck are very abundant around my area, but the equipment is not. An airforce escape/UL and pump are fulfilling prospects. I spoil the wife and kids all summer and heat the house all winter having oil (which thank god has gone way down) , but it leaves little room to get crazy with a nice pcp, im lucky to squeeze a couple box store springers out when the season comes. Next summer ill save up I will, lol
RDNA
If you get the right pcp for the job your wanting do you will like it.
You know how those 1377’s have no recoil. There nice and smooth when they shoot. Get you a good pcp and you’ll have that same shot cycle with a nice trigger, more power and better accuracy at longer distances.
.25 caliber is all I can say. Did I say .25 caliber? Yes I did. Oh and the .25 caliber Marauder is cheaper than the AirForce gun.
Ive thought about the marauder but have read it seems a bit finickier, a bit bigger, a bit less powerful. That smooth shooting and at the same time blowing the power of springers out of the water, yeah, .25, oh yeah. An mrod would be amazing, how could I be picky? Ive only had guns that take weeks of work to get a micro fraction of the accuracy, a smaller still of easy shooting, and a 3rd at most the power. If an mrod can take woodchuck or fox out to 50 then an escape would be overkill, but if theres any iffy-ness on that then id rather the escape because I’d also like to have the shtf ability of taking any opportunity without question as I cannot own powder arms from my childhood stupidities.
RDNA
You know what will work best for you.
.25 marauder will definitely work just fine. I think looking at ft/lbs after craving more for so long has me looking to the more end of more, unnecessarily, as im sure you can tell. You have a .25 mrod, right? Gotten any long range squirrel or small game?
If a mrod itd have to be the synthetic… or an escape…
RDNA
I have had a few .25 caliber Marauders. Gen1’s and Gen2’s wood and synthetic stocks too.
I got a wood stock .25 cal. Marauder Gen2 right now that I got turned up pretty good. Around 53 fpe. It’s shooting 31.02 grain Barracudas at about 880 fps right now.
And what do you call long range. Here’s what I have got about a half dozen starlings over about the last 3 or so months at a hundred yards.
Here’s what I’ll say. The .25 Marauder makes the starlings go pop at 50 yards. Guess what they still make a pop sound at a hundred yards and feathers still fly.
I got several air guns but none of them can make a starling pop at a hundred yards. The only one that is making enough power to mention is a .177 caliber Talon SS I recently got. But it gets blown off course to easy at that distance and no kind of way makes as much energy as the .25 Marauder. Plus it doesn’t retain the energy either like that big .25 caliber pellet.
Remember when you want to hit something you want that bigger diameter pellet so its easier to hit if your pellet goes off course. A little diameter pellet is for making it through a hole like the field target guys shoot at.
Oh I forgot to say. Yes I like my .25 Marauder.
Yeah, 100yds starlings is perfection. It can take bobcat and the like, perfection. Is the wood really much heavier?
RDNA
Heavier than a synthetic model. I don’t know I never weighed either of mine.
Maybe the Pyramyd AIR description of the Marauder says what both models weigh. I haven’t looked lately and I don’t remember.
I think it was 7.8 or .3 and 8.3, but its not really about weight because the extra pound might make the wood version balance better, any thought on the balance from wood to syn?
RDNA
I bench rest or use a bi-pod.
I place the stock at different locations on the bag or pod that the gun likes from previous experimenting with it. So ballance doesn’t really matter to me.
With a monopod it wouldn’t matter as much as most of my shooting is off hand, but…. see below.
RDNA
Oh and forgot I mean a shooting stick bi-pod not one that attaches to the gun. I should of said that and forgot.
A stick is perfect for me, woodswalkin, I’ve been meaning to look into finding other places to get a good one besides dicks, it would be worth it but every time I look at them I cant justify 47$ when looking at it in the store as just a stick, but every time im shootin I say “dang, I need one” lol
I also have run out of good pellets so im using the barracuda hunter extremes left over and they are grouping the best of what I’ve got. I dont know if cphp tins have gone to the dogs but this one is spittin everywhere and the fit going in is never the same pellet to pellet.
That resembles the performance of the last couple tins of CPHP’s I’ve received. Benjamin hp’s are much better in my guns, they look just like the Crosmans but feed and shoot totally different.
My theory on this is while Crosman probably rotates their out of spec dies and “sells” the oversized ones to Benjamin they still mix the product of used and new dies for retail sales?
Yeah, the tins are obviously a mix of die lots.nothing I’ve had has liked them for a long while. Im glad Tom tested the rws superdomes, they did great in springers far as I can tell, I mentioned the supermags to you and the domes are almost exactly the same, the flatness of the dome head make for clean holes as well.
Until recently I only bought them because it’s about all I know I can get locally.
However I did use their hardness to my advantage breaking in my Ruger Impact one tin later and everything loads much more easily.
Reb
Did you just hear what you said.
What would happen if you keep shooting those pellets if they did that at break in.
How many break in shots did it take with them hard pellets to loosen the loading fit? And man if it did that where you load the pellet I wonder what the rest of the barrel is like when that pellet comes up to speed.
Yeah that’s a good reason not to shoot them very often and they splattered everywhere into little pieces of shrapnel when used on my steel targets.
I was concerned about antimony deposits but accuracy is still great, just one tin worth was all it took but I don’t recall if it was a 500 or 750 count.
Reb
Well if that’s true that it did that by just loading the pellet. I just might have to say I wouldn’t use them in my guns if I plan on having them for a long time.
Hmm maybe it’s a good thing I haven’t used them in any of the guns I got now.
If you ever get one that’s hard to load just follow my Leade. 🙂
Remember Buldawg’s 140? I wonder if that’s mostly what happened to that barrel along with a good layer of overnight rust?
I think it was so hard to get them moving it was expanding their skirts pretty well
I’ve got some Berman round pellets that look a lot like them, I’ll have to try them in my Impact, if it does decent with them I’ll have to get some for it. Right now I’m shooting mostly Superpoints and a few JSB Monsters now and then.
Reb
Yes Buldawgs gun has crossed my mind. You mean the one he says he shot the rifling out of it.
Well you have to give us updates if your gun changes anymore from using them. Now that’s a experment I’m interested in.
They served their purpose but weren’t fun to shoot so I’ll stick with what works best and keep the experience and my rifling.
No more through the Impact but I may get some in .177 for the Daisy120. It’s easy to cock but that’s where the fun ends. I still put 10-20 shots a day through it trying to break in the trigger but it’s a challenge to shoot well.
The H&N econs seem to be just as hard and that’s mostly what has gone through it since I got em.it’s a little tight still but my QB-88 is a little loose so that’s it for them in it.
I just gave a tin to a buddy because none of my good guns seem to care for them.
I’ve still got 3 more tins in my closet to run through any .177 guns I get going but I’m not holding too much confidence in them. I was hoping they’d shoot like the 8.18’s but no glory yet.
Reb
And sometimes experiments have to end that way you know.
I think ypur guns going to thank you some day anyway.
I started to try toothpaste like RDNA did but didn’t wanna fill my baffles with chunks of it so that’s the solution I came up with and it worked well
With the Superpoints being almost as inexpensive there’s no way I’d part from them unless I find something even better and CPHP’s ain’t it.
I still have the lighter JSB pellets to try but it likes the Monsters I just stocked up on so well and they hit HARD outta it.
Reb
What I want to know is did the pellets being loaded by hand really affect the diameter of the rifling in your gun.
I don’t know if it will do anything there. Maybe farther down the barrel as the pellet starts moving. Your just inserting the pellet only the depth of the pellet with your finger or thumb.
I would think that would take alot of pellet loading to make a change in the rifling at that spot in the barrel. But farther down the barrel with a hard pellet could be another story.
What do you think?
I’ll have to get back to you on that at the bottom. Getting too thin to work with here.
Just put 10 Berman rounds through the Impact, the group had @ least one called flyer with 2 outta the main group of 8 that measures .5″ outside to outside so that’s a little over 1/4″ ctc. And they leave clean holes where not touching.
Yes I’ll be sure to pickup some more,
Thanks!
Rwb
Autocorrect strikes again!
Beeman,
Range was 10yds and that’s about what I been getting outta the Superpoints so I now have 2 awesome shooting pellets to use in it and they both hit the same POI!
Cool. :-). ⊙
Great report. Soooo many of your statements, thoughts and conclusions were spot-on to what I have experienced. More on point, I think you described what many people go through from time to time as weekend plinkers.
Pa.oldman mentioned the “break in” period. I think that has some good merit.
You comment on putting pellets through the same hole was cool. I had that happen the first 3 shots, 3 times in a row, only to have the remaining 7 blow the group out to the 3/4~1″ range.
I think your comment of your one shot being held “perfect”, but turned out to be the worst of the group, would point to pellet variation I think. I would like to see you Pelletgage some, with the (only goal) being that at least you know you are using same head size pellets. That would eliminate 1 little variable and should be able to be done without taking up too much of your time.
Wishing you the best on getting your Super Tuned Super R-1 figured out.
Chris,
My goal for the R1 is to star in the lst chapter of an updated R1 book. Now that I have figured out the publishing process I plan to revise the R1 book next and put the dream tune as a new and final chapter.
B.B.
BB,
That is the bad part about your occupation. You usually do not have time to spend with the one air rifle you would really like to play with most. I think that is one of the reasons I am so adamant about not having a large collection. I want to be real good with the few that I have.
RR,
Learning your guns is definitely the most important thing. I have a couple that I am completely comfortable with and I always do best with them.
B.B.
I would say that’s not bad shooting for 25 yards compared to many guns you’ve tested. Especially keeping in mind it’s not a PCP.
I have a couple springers but don’t love them. My Benjamin Trail NP2 requires intense attention to hold with every single shot. I can usually start off stacking pellets nicely but can tell the second my concentration relaxes or I begin to tire. Different NP2s shoot differently (I’ve shot two, and a LOT of online research finds different shooters settling on very different holds). I just recently tried sandbags but got vertical stringing–mine wants to be held, not rested even on a softer base. Like B.B. says, you have to learn each gun.
Hello B.B.,
When was the last time you gave the R1s barrel a good cleaning? Perhaps you have a few particles of leading or lubes causing your flyers.
Excess lube particles from tuning could still be blowing off. And speaking of lubing, I don’t see where you have described the internal lubrication of your supertune. The lubrication protocol and selection of lubes is an integral part of the tuning process, along with the mechanicals. Also, any information on the type if piston seal chosen and how it was fitted would help make the tuning description more complete and instructive.
Good luck with your continuing tests.
Feinwerk,
I thought about cleaning the barrel. I can’t remember doing it, so it has been a long time.
B.B.
B.B.,
This is not spam.
In part 1 of this series you said, “He (Bryan Enoch) then cleaned the barrel (which hasn’t been cleaned in more than 10,000 shots) and installed a new Vortek breech seal. He also lightly chamfered and cleaned the transfer port.”
I think the fliers are primarily caused by either the scope that is giving you some parallax issues and/or not finding the right pellet for this newly tuned gun. I think the new tune is broken in. Surprised you didn’t try a thin wall pellet, like the jsb’s, in that weihrauch barrel. In your velocity test the jsb 15.8 grains gave the smallest spread.
kevin
Kevin,
And now your message came through. Since it was sent earlier, it’s posted higher on the page.
B.B.
Thanks for these tune blogs, I learn so much from them. Question on pellets, I have a Hatsan Torpedo 100x (.177) on the way. Would a JSB heavy @10.34 gm or a Crosman ultra mag @10.5 damage the spring? Thanks, Bill.
SSG Grampo,
I have never found any evidence that heavy pellets damage mainsprings. I think that belief is an urban legend, but I haven’t really tested it, so I’m not sure. I shoot heavy pellets in all my spring guns.
B.B.
On a related note — what about lighter alloy pellets? I’ve read that they start moving soon enough due to their smaller inertia that they’ve travelled partly down the barrel by the time the piston finishes its stroke. Essentially, it causes the same problems as dry firing — it’s like the pellet is no longer there.
Hiveseeker
It’s exactly like dry firing. If you want to keep your gun working for a long time I would steer clear of those pellets you mentioned.
Thanks. I keep seeing people testing alloy pellets in springers but had read you shouldn’t–I was starting to wonder.
Most of the people who use rose seem to be addicted to the noise and like to pretend it’s a firearm hoLo Iwever they do seem to do alright in some low powered guns at short ranges.,
HiveSeeker
The way I look at those pellets you mention is they fall right in with the high velocity wars they try to sell to the people that never have shot a air gun before.
Like Reb said. I guess it sounds all cool and everything all the noise they make and how fast they go. But try to hit something with them and see how much energy they have left at 25 yards compared to a lead pellet.
The lead pellet will shoot rings around those lightweight alloy pellets.
But also something to keep in mind that there are those green pellets as people call them that some places mandate. Those pellets usually are pretty close in weight to their lead counter parts or should I say lead pellets.
I have heard that people do have good luck with those. But don’t confuse them with those 4 grain alloy .177 caliber pellets. Those are the ones to stay away from.
B.B.,
No disrespect meant, but have you thought to check the stock screws periodically? Given that your R1 has been out of its furniture recently, they might have loosened ever so slightly during these first few dozen shots.
Regarding the trigger, I’ve long thought that with a rested air rifle a heavy trigger matters less if the gun is shooting harshly in general, but with one that is smooth as silk, smaller things such as that become more noticeable on the target. When I first got my FWB 601, I increased the trigger weight because I was such a rank amateur I needed that little bit of extra resistance. After I had shot it about 500 times, I lightened both stages considerably, and I was very surprised how that tightened my groups. Of course, I had another 500 shots of practice in the meantime, but still, the difference occurred immediately after I lightened the trigger back to where it is meant to be on such a rifle.
Michael
Michael,
I did not check the stock screws — but I will. Thanks,
B.B.
This message was written by Kevin. It was flushed by the spam filter because the word spam is in it.,
B.B.,
This is not spam.
In part 1 of this series you said, “He (Bryan Enoch) then cleaned the barrel (which hasn’t been cleaned in more than 10,000 shots) and installed a new Vortek breech seal. He also lightly chamfered and cleaned the transfer port.”
I think the fliers are primarily caused by either the scope that is giving you some parallax issues and/or not finding the right pellet for this newly tuned gun. I think the new tune is broken in. Surprised you didn’t try a thin wall pellet, like the jsb’s, in that weihrauch barrel. In your velocity test the jsb 15.8 grains gave the smallest spread.
kevin
Kevin,
I had to re-post your comment because it was flushed by the spam filter. Apparently saying “spam” in a message caused it to get caught. I guess I can post it, but maybe it isn’t a good word for anyone else to use.
B.B.
Kevin,
Thank you for pointing that out. You just saved me a lot of time!
B.B.
B.B.,
Sorry for all the extra work. Seems my original comment posted but it says, “Your comment is awaiting moderation”
Seems that someone in cyberspace doesn’t like me.
kevin
Kevin,
Now that comment sailed through. I think the S word triggered what happened earlier.
By the by — your original post came through. It’s up above because it was sent earlier.
B.B.
Kevin,
I did try JSB RS pellets that have thin walls and also RWS Suoerdomes. I didn’t mention either of them in the report because I’m not sure that I wasn’t the problem instead of the gun. I want to keep the pellet options open for now.
B.B.
B.B.,
Yes, I saw that the RWS Superdomes in todays article performed best.
Superdomes have never been the best pellet in any of my weihrauch barrels (73 weihrauch airguns). They are often the best in Diana barrels though. Go figure.
Even though your R1 has been de-tuned, tuned for smoothness not power, I think the JSB RS pellets are too light. I’d be surprised if the JSB 15.8 gr or 18.1 gr didn’t do better. Just my ramblings.
kevin
Kevin,
While I didn’t try JSB 15.89 domes I did try Air Arms Field domes that are very similar. Those were the first pellets that wanted to group for me.
I will be trying the other JSB Exact pellets next time.
B.B.
B.B.
I thought the AA Field domes and the JSB 15.89 would shoot about the same but in my .22 cal. 34P but my gun doesn’t like any of the AA pellets I have tried do far. Yet the JSB 15.89 pellets are the best pellet I have shot so far in that gun. My .177 cal 460 Magnum shoots AA pellets and JSB pellets equally well. Go figure.
David
David
I have had similar results in the past of the two brand pellets your talking about.
The JSB’s always seem to win out for me though. The AirArms pellets are good. But the JSB’s seem to do just a bit better for me anyway.
B.B.
Thanks for the reply on the heavy pellets, I have both of them to use.Also If I had not been reading this Blog I would never have known how different pellets could shoot so differently. I have 4 rifles all with different favorites. As for RWS Superdomes my RWS Hammerli 850 hands down loves these best. Thanks again for the help and all the great advise you provide.
Never had time to weigh in on your blog about guns with interchangeable parts but the first actual gun with interchangeable parts was the Hall’s breech-loading rifle by John Hall of Maine. Hall’s contract with the government stipulated that the guns have interchangeable parts, so he devised some machines to produce them that were installed at Harpers Ferry in Virginia. PRobably more well known were the Hall’s breach loading carbine carried by the US dragoons during the Mexican American War. I did see an original Hall’s rifle 10 years ago at Muzzleloaders Etc. in Burnsville, Minnesota. It looked like it had never been fired. He wanted $3,500 for it which might as well been the moon at that time for me. I have a whole binder full of information on the Hall’s rifle. Do a Google search on “Hall’s rifle” for more information.
Brent,
I considered the Hall when I wrote that report, but I don’t think Hall realized a true production status. At least not to the level my report is describing. He certainly had the idea for interchangeable parts before Colt, but his execution was never as successful. I think Colt was far more successful because he worked within one organization that he also owned, where Hall had to bump heads with the armory.
However, you do make a good point. Hall was first and I should have mentioned him.
B.B.
actually, there were approximately 23500 rifles in 20000 carbines manufactured from 1820 to 1840. The Halls was never very popular because of the gas leakage around the breach. The Burnside carbine was an adaptation of the Halls and solved the gas leakage problem with the ice cream cone shaped cartridge that was loaded in the action.
Hello Tom,
Few things to point out.
Trigger was set by me to 1lb 3 oz. When it arrived here it was so light, that I barely touched it and it went off. You said you didn’t like it this light so I bumped it up just a tad to where I thought you would like it and you told me in person, that you liked it better than it had been. Anyway….curious if you are able to check weight, and if so…what is it still set at? It shouldn’t move but sometimes they will just a little bit but check first so we can tell if it’s creeped up or you’ve just decided you want it a little lighter. I wouldn’t go much lower than a pound but set it how you like it.
Screws were all coated correctly with Vibratite and I doubt they will ever get loose on you now but check them anyway. The coating I use on screws, stays on the screw even as you remove and put back. It’s the best screw locker I’ve ever used and have been using it over 20 years exclusively for this purpose. Love the stuff, especially the smaller tubes they now have.
The custom screw cups will also help ensuring the screws don’t come loose as well. The only screw probably loose is the small, rear trigger screw because you don’t want that torqued down heavily, just lightly snug or it can cause trigger problems as it can torque the trigger box assembly causing more problems.
I’m happy with how the gun is shooting and your enjoying it and your shooting descriptions. It has many many hours of work into it, and as much as I would love to be able to do this work in a few hours…it’s not magic and takes time and careful, precise work to achieve what I do with an “Ultimate Tune”.
Happy Shooting and need more pictures of your actual gun on this “Beeman R1 Super-tune” series. The one in the pictures you are using isn’t the gun I tuned, just in case people were wondering as I have already seen one erroneous post mentioning that they loved the new style stock on your gun. I loved your stock but it was custom and not the factory one shown above. You’re gun with it’s custom stock, brass screw cups, and brass safety is super cool looking and I would be showing it off with pride.
Happy shooting to you and may God be with you my friend.
Bryan Enoch
Brian,
I didn’t get to really experience the trigger until I shot the rifle at targets. I am used to double set triggers and to Olympic target triggers when I shoot at targets and the setting was just too heavy for me. That doesn’t come through until you start shooting for accuracy.
But that’s okay — it’s just an adjustment and that’s why they put it there. Every person has their own preference. Paul Watts adjusted that trigger for me years ago and I guess I just got used to it the way he set it up.
I will check the stock screws because someone asked me about it, but I doubt they are loose. This R1 has always been a twitchy rifle. I guess I just need to set it up right and then learn how to shoot it. I know it’s a tackdriver — I can see evidence of that when I shoot. It’s just incredibly sensitive to slight variations in the hold.
I am going to update the Beeman R1 book with new material and corrections to the old. And the final chapter will be a report on this dream tune. I wrote the book so I could do that, and this gives me the opportunity.
I just published a book that’s now on Amazon. “BB Guns Remembered” is a collection of short stories I wrote over the past 15-20 years. The process of publishing that book has put me in the perfect position to republish the R1 book. I plan to publish it next year. Yes, any photos you can send would be appreciated. I will use the ones you sent already and you will be credited.
B.B.
Hi BB,
Totally understand about the trigger weight and how once shooting it for a while, you can adjust as you like it. Makes perfect sense. Just wanted people to know the weight I had set it at, in case anybody was wondering. That is one nice shooting rifle. People who love springers all deserve a gun to shoot as nice as that one now.
I’m thrilled it’s putting a smile on your face and thankful to have had a chance to tune it for you.
Shoot Safe,
Bryan Enoch
Hi Bryan,
Thanks for your comment!
I will be using VibraTite #3 for the first time. Do you completely cover all the threads, or just draw lines across the threads? How long do you let it “set-up” before installing?
Thanks again,
-Yogi
Hi Yogi,
I’ve used lot’s of thread locker, but none is better than Vibra Tite VC-3 is my favorite. I degrease the threads, then apply a band about 1/4″ in length, all around the end of the thread. That’s how a spec we used at work required on all screws and I still do it today with mine. Once V/T has been applied, set them on a paper plate, or wax paper and let dry for at least 15-20 mins. You can leave overnight, or for years, and then use the screw and it still works perfectly and once dry, they don’t stick to each other either. Pretty cool stuff really. My tip is to buy the little tubes of it now because the bottle, while larger and has a fancy brush in the lid, if it doesn’t get sealed up, can dry out on you. I would rather have a little tube that’s easier to apply, and if it went bad, you have lost less. I have been using a tube now and it’s still good, as less worry and easier to seal anyway.
Try it. I think you’ll like it.
Gunfun,
I think with the pellets being so hard to get moving the skirts were over-expanding because I didn’t do all that with my thumb. Regardless, it worked out well for me but prudence is of utmost importance when using such a tool, it accomplished my goal and cost effectively I must say.
Reb
All true. But as it goes a tool could be dangerous if not used correctly. I’m pretty sure you know what I mean about that.
My point is that I couldn’t see how loading by hand with a hard pellet could make a significant change at the lead in of the barrel where you load the pellet.
But now that you bring the point up again about the skirt expanding I guess I could see that having some effect at loosening up the pellet fit in the barrel.
And again. That must also do something to the rifling as the pellet abrubtly accelerates up to speed with a hard pellet.
I believe a softer pellet would form to the rifling rather than honing it bigger with a hard pellet. I think that is for sure something to be aware of.
Maybe that’s another reason when we find a accurate pellet (preferably a softer pellet I guess) we should stay with that pellet because we kind of make the barrel and the pellet fit each other. Kind of like seasoning the barrel I will call it.
Yep alot to pay attention to with this air gun stuff ain’t there.
That is one experiment I will definitely remember!
I was concerned about using Crosman pellets in my 392 back when that’s all I could get for it and maybe that’s why it’s so finicky. I only put about 2 tins through it myself but who else would think if that without reading this blog on a daily basis?
Thanks for the guidance!
Reb
You know me for awhile now. I always got my head in something.
That’s why I mentioned before about shooting more than 10 or 20 pellets at one time when trying to find the good pellet for a air gun.
I believe that barrel and pellet need to get sized to each other by the way the pellets make up and the barrels make up meet and work together.
From what I have seen that it takes a good bit of time spent on one gun and a given pellet before moving to the next pellet. And it becomes very hard to have multiple guns going through the same scenario.
Sometimes you even have to go back through a gun with pellets you have already tryed because the gun broke in more through time and it wants something different.
What I have noticed is a pellet gun can get better with use. And the more you use it the more familiar you become with how it acts.
Remember what I talked about with the tooling in the shop production machines. The more you learn and pay attention to something the quicker you can identify when something is not working like its suppose to.
And I know its hard to afford getting the good pellets. And again it depends on how your shooting. But you got to weigh out the factors of the big picture and what you want to achieve. And cheap pellets can work. But you got to test them. You got to test and document is the best I can say.
And I just sounded like my 7th grade science teacher. He did do well at teaching. Only if he knew now that I did really listen to him when he taught. I always wondered how he was so smart.