by B.B. Pelletier
Announcement: Rick Ruth is this week’s winner of Pyramyd Air’s Big Shot of the Week on their facebook page. He’ll receive a $50 Pyramyd Air gift card! Congratulations!
Rick’s shooting his Crosman Quest spring-piston breakbarrel rifle. Since this photo was taken, Rick says he’s replaced it with an RWS 34 springer and says it’s a much better gun.
Today, Vince takes us through a test between a vintage Daisy No. 25 pump-action BB gun and its modern equivalent. In his usual distinctive way, Vince shows us how much has changed through the years, as well as what’s remained the same.
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Now, take it away, Vince!
The Daisy 25 pump BB gun, despite the endeavors of the popular-but-technically-flawed movie, A Christmas Story, remains in many ways the iconic Daisy. In my mind, it’s forever thus enshrined. I can still remember one sitting in my uncle’s basement gun cabinet — and that somehow, in comparison, my cousin’s Red Ryder and my own Daisy model 1894 looked distinctly toy-ish. Maybe it was the wooden pump handle and way the really long cocking arm blended into the front of the triggerguard. Perhaps it was the duck hunting scene pictured on the action. WOW — you could hunt DUCKS with that thing!
I never got to try out that particular gun, and it wasn’t until about 5 years ago that I finally got my hands on a used No. 25 from Gunbroker — which was promptly returned to the seller. “Good working order” is not an accurate description when the shot tube is missing.
The NEXT one I got was a plastic-stocked gun from the mid-50s, I think, and I FINALLY got to shoot one. It was all over the place. And I mean ALL OVER THE PLACE. Accuracy was poor, even by BB gun standards. Off it went to its next appreciative owner.
A short time later, I was meandering through a local sporting goods store and saw — GASP! — a brand new No. 25 on the shelf. The price was under $40, so I bit.
I got it home, and even though the gun followed the design of the No. 25 rather faithfully, somehow it didn’t quite seem right. Don’t know if was the Chinese paint, the Chinese metalwork, the Chinese wood or the Chinese plastic trigger with safety or just the fact that it said “MADE IN CHINA” on the gun. But it didn’t seem to be a real No. 25; and, even though it didn’t shoot badly, it never seemed much different than a contemporary Red Ryder.
So this latest version of the venerable No. 25 went quickly back to sitting on a shelf. A while later, however, ANOTHER No. 25 came into my hands. This one was a very early one, this — an Alpha to compliment the Omega I already had. Well, not QUITE the Alpha, but darned close – manufacturing details seem to place this gun between 1916 and 1924.
Gee. Now I’ve got a pair of No. 25 BB guns at the extreme ends of the manufacturing spectrum, their births being separated by something like 90 years and 12,000 miles. It sure sounds like a comparison test has been decreed by the Fates, and far be it from me to oppose those irresistible cosmic forces.
Two Daisy No. 25 BB guns. The new one in front looks longer because of the camera’s perspective. They’re the same length.
What is it with the Chinese and that orange-colored wood? They’re virtually identical in length at 37 inches. Oddly enough, the newer one is heaviest at 3.50 lbs., with the old one coming in 7 oz. lighter. That extra length in the cocking arm has something to do with it. The old one is blued, while the newer one is painted.
Given their disparity in origin there are going to be some detail differences. A couple show up in the top rear view of the actions.
Top view of both actions shows the differences in the sights and their placement. The newer gun (bottom) also has a backstrap that the vintage gun lacks.
The old one has a ramp-adjutable rear sight that sits a bit further away from the shooter’s eye, which makes it easier to focus. The new one is screw-adjustable, and it flips to present either a notch or a peep sight to the shooter. Another obvious addition is the additional strap extanding from the rear of the action to the top of the stock’s pistol grip. I imagine Daisy had some cracking issues to handle. [Editor’s note: This strap was added to the 1930 version of the gun that was just prior to the engraved 1936 version. Once added, Daisy never removed the strap again, despite there being 20 years before plastic stocks replaced wooden ones.]
The pump handle on top is on the original short-throw pump linkage that’s held to the barrel by a steel clamp. The linkage on the new model is anchored by a spot-weld.
Speaking of handles
The handle on the newer gun is further forward. This was done when they lengthened the cocking arm (in the 1920s, I believe) to reduce cocking effort. On our examples, there doesn’t seem to be much of a difference. Other detail differences include the mounting of the front pump handle guide and the shape of the fixed front sight.
Although I’m not planning to do a teardown as part of this writeup, I can show you the shot tubes, since they’re regularly removed anyway. The shot tubes are the true barrels of the No. 25. They screw into the outer sheetmetal housing that most people refer to as the barrel.
The shot tubes look somewhat different, but actually can be interchanged.
They load the same and work the same, but obviously are made a bit differently and certainly don’t look interchangeable — there’s a cast metal breech base on the newer one.
Finally, we can see what the plain actions looked like before Daisy started decorating them. Details in the triggerguard and trigger construction are pretty obvious, especially the addition of that ungainly safety on the newer one.
The right side of the two actions shows an interesting comparison. The newer trigger (bottom) is certainly the feature that stands out the most.
Let’s start shooting
OK, tour’s over. If I’m gonna shoot these things, I need to shoot something through them — and they do have different appetites. The old one is strictly for lead shot only. If I load it, steel shot will probably come out the other end — but the feed and holding mechanism relies on the softness of the lead, and using steel shot will likely booger things up. Specifically, this rifle was made for the old .175″ air rifle shot that Daisy used to market.
Key phrase being “used to.” Daisy doesn’t make it anymore, and it was suggested to me that the closest thing we have today seems to be Beeman Perfect Rounds, which just happen to measure .0.175″ across. Picking food for the modern one is easy — it’s a Daisy, so it gets Daisy zinc-plated BBs. Tom has found them to be the better ones these days, and I’m generally finding the same thing myself.
I’m using the normal 15 foot BB-gun distance, and firing three groups of 5 shots each:
Two sets of groups — the vintage 25 on the left and the new gun on the right. Vintage gun groups measure 1.41 inches, 1.41 inches and 1 inch. New gun groups measure 0.70 inches, 1.28 inches and 1.38 inches.
Not too much difference, really, other than the lead BB’s are easier to score. In fact, it’s the newer gun that averages slightly better. That’s a bit of a surprise, as the older gun certainly shows a nicer sight picture to my eye because the rear leaf is further away — and I really think that the Beeman Perfect Rounds are more uniform than Daisy BBs. For these reasons, I would have expected more consistent grouping from grandpa.
One nice thing about the newer Daisy is the way the rear sight flips from a leaf to a peep. Will that tighten the groups?
Shooting the new gun with the peep sight instead of the rear notch didn’t improve the groups. They measure 1.05 inches, 1.60 inches and 1.45 inches.
The peep sight doesn’t really make things better. In fact, they’re slightly worse than the groups shot with the rear notch sight. The notch is the best to use for me.
Now, let’s skip back to those lead BBs in the older gun. As I said, I was expecting them to be more accurate. Heck, they sure oughta be, given their price. And how much more expensive are they? I have no idea, because they seem to be discontinued. They ARE available direct from H&N, however — but they’re $16 per 500. Crazy indeed, because you can still buy .22LR ammo for that price. [Editor’s note: Gamo .177-caliber round lead balls are still available for a lot less than the H&N balls.]
This leaves me with one more thing I gotta try. Let’s say you have a vintage 25 just like I have, and you want to shoot it with some sort of frequency. Or you let your grandson try it, who then lets the can of round lead balls slip out of his hand and empties your 3-cents-a-shot ammo into the grass. There’s no doubt about it — if you’re gonna use a BB gun the way BB guns were intended to be used, you’re gonna go broke unless you have stock in the lead forming industry. So, why not just use steel BB’s?
As Tom explained it, the old shot tubes have a “pinch” in the tube near the breech that would keep the shot from rolling out when the muzzle is pointed down. If we switched to steel ammo, it would probably work for a while, but eventually we’d run the risk of that pinch being worn down. Do we REALLY want to risk an irreplaceable part on an antique BB gun, just so we can temporarily save a few bucks on BBs?
But there’s another solution, because neither Daisy nor the Chinese really have a vested interest in altering things just for the heck of it. Obviously, the shot tube assemblies from each gun LOOKS different, and some construction details have changed. But what happens when you actually try to screw the tube from the newest gun into the old one?
It may look odd, but using the new shot tube on the vintage No. 25 allows you to use cheap steel BBs.
You get what’s called “a perfect fit.” Yup…100 years apart in design, and not even the 7/16″ National Coarse thread at the bottom of the tube has changed. Time to see how this works.
Three groups with the vintage gun using the new shot tube and steel BBs. Groups are sized 1.55 inches, 0.90 inches and 1.20 inches.
As you can see, it’s slightly worse than the newer gun with this same tube, but so close as to be virtually identical. And it’s still slightly better than the original tube with Beeman ammo. Best of all, the gun fed and fired flawlessly.
I did a chrony comparison of these guns and found that that the early model seems to have lost some of its zing. Shooting it with the lead balls gave me the following numbers:
The new one (shooting much lighter steel BBs) is better, but still under the advertised velocity of 350 fps:
So, exageration is hardly unique to air rifle manufacturers! Lastly I tried the old gun with the new shot tube:
In both strings with the old gun, we see a very definite downward curve in velocity the more it’s shot. Not sure why that is; and given the gun’s age, I’m not entirely surprised. Could be the seal or the spring — but it matters little, as it won’t be seeing too much use.
So, there you have it. The old gun, firing precision ammunition a gazillion times more expensive than cheap BBs is no more accurate than a new one. The old gun, with an old spring and an old seal, might not have the power of the new one. The old gun can be updated with new parts to shoot cheap BBs, but it won’t shoot much different from a new one when you do that.
From all this, you can draw your own conclusions. It’d be easy to say “Wow! Home run for Daisy!” and pat them on the back for bringing this model back to life. And, from a cursory glance at the innards, it’s obvious that this really IS a genuine Model 25, with an internal design substantially unchanged in almost a century. If shootin’ fun is what you’re after, this one gives away nothing to the vintage model.
But is there more to it than that? For me, I can say that it’s pretty obvious that the new gun has certainly succumbed to some serious homogenization. Compared to, say, a contemporary Red Ryder, there’s just no personality to differentiate it…not even a cosmetic one, really. The metalwork, the cheesy wood finish (cheddar, specifically) and price are all in the same ballpark. Couldn’t they stain the wood a nice, dark brown? Or up the power a bit? Or SOMETHING? I know there has to be a lot of commonality among products like this, but come on — whatever happened to the virtues of “diversity”?
But this is getting a bit off-topic. The new Model 25 is a decent BB gun, and functionally gives away nothing to the old one. If you can get past the compromises that seem to be imposed by the current manufacturing climate, there’s no reason not to enjoy it.
[Editor’s note: One thing strikes me about the velocities Vince got. The vintage Daisy No. 25 seems to be performing like it’s lacking oil. Or at least that’s how an old gun behaves when it needs to be oiled. No doubt, it’s a bit tired after all those years, but Vince: Did you oil the gun before testing?]
86 thoughts on “A tale of two Daisy 25 BB guns”
By Daisy model 1894 I assume you mean the Spittin’ Image 1894. I still think that gun is the cat’s meow. But I confess the the No. 25 is still a close second. I shot but owned neither. I owned a Buck and I don’t remember owning any other air gun. Your blog post does bring back memories of the old neighborhood and the number of b.b. guns that were shot (sometimes at each other).
This is a good time to thank everyone for the well wishes that you posted a couple of days ago. I only just now was able to read them. I thought to reply to everyone but there are a number of you and so I think it is good to let all of you know right here. I appreciate being included with my friend Pete who I know has been an integral part of this group for a while.
B.B. do you remember a little pellet from Beeman’s that looks like a little chess pawn; it has just a hint of a point and a short skirt. I have a bunch in an old yellow plastic Sheridan box. They are .177 and the only thing I can shoot them out of is my Crosman 3100. They are too light for the Daisy Powerline 1000.
I shot all three of my rifles earlier today. I am shooting the Daisy with the open sights it came with and enjoyed doing fairly well at 20 yards. BTW, what does the 20 yards (or any other distance) mean? Is that where the line for the muzzle is, where my forward foot is, or what? I only just realized I don’t really know.
I don’t remember buying the 3100 but I know I did and I know that I removed all of the open sights, including the front sights. I mounted a .22 rim fire scope although I already knew about the parallax issue…duh! Now I have the Daisy 3×9 mounted and if I can find a barn I think it will shoot pretty well.
I like my Titan. I suppose I might like a Trail more but you have helped me understand that a Trail XP might be a disappointment. If I get back to being able to handle springers down the road I might consider one, but I will do it with some foreknowledge and realistic expectations.
Otherwise, it may be a Discovery and the butterfly air pump, at least initially.
My Titan is working at becoming the perfect rifle for you.
A while back I pulled it out and cocked it to refamiliarize myself with what a gas piston gun feels like (have been sooting “R” guns a lot) . Sure cocked easier than I remembered, and had more of a spring feeling than a gas piston feel. So I ran it over the chrono and found that it was shooting in the mid 500s. Originally it was in the low 700s.
So now we have something else that Crosman can add to their advertising….
“Becomes Canadian legal in a couple years”.
ROTFL 🙂 🙂 Hopefully, it is just time for that drop of silicon oil (or a drop of pure synthetic motor oil as Duskwight informed us). Aside from that, there may be some Canadians in the market for one.
Oh, wait! You may think I am in Canada. I’d love to visit but I am in the Houston area. At times I have wanted to get in the car (or on the bike at one time long ago) and just head north. With the new soft packs I could carry a boat load of pork and beans for rations, some water in a soft bag. But, alas, I am the Walter Mitty of adventuring. My loss!
But…how accurate is you Titan now? Still, although FPS is not the most important thing I still think it is important for the Accuracy/FPS/FPE/ ratio.
Okay, I must jump into a phone booth and quick change into my Super Staff costume. OMG, there are no more phone booths.
Forgive me, please. I Think a touch of anxiety is making me daffy.
Last I knew, it was minute of starling accurate at 30 yds. Don’t know now.
Got through two different doctors this week without a problem. Have to see another one next week. He gets paid a lot for 1-2 minutes of work. Getting another cataract zapped.
twotalon, I can handle paying a lot if I get a lot. I hope the doc has given you a lot!
Yeah, Ken…it was worth it so far. Should be next week too. What’s it worth to not be blind?
twotalon, you remind me of when I worked at Best Buy for a year (the details of which are too painful to relate although most customers are wonderful people). I will relate this one thing. On occasion, for whatever reason, there would be no price posted for an item. It was not uncommon for a customer to then suggest that the item must be free. To this I had but one response, “No sir” or “No ma’am” it is actually “PRICE LESS”. Your sight is indeed PRICELESS and I hope you see well for a long time to come, not only but certainly when you are taking aim.
I seem to have gotten everything in order (with many thanks to my wife who is both smarter and better looking than I am). I haven’t been under for six hours since the last time I took a couple of Ambien, but oh the dreams 🙂
May your vision be as good as your sight, and may your sight be very good indeed.
I also want to write a bit about airgunning adventures, and I will; just not right now.
I have a strange sense of humor, and a different way of looking at things . I don’t even try to use smileys to show emotion or attitude. I found out a long time ago that it is better to never let anyone know exactly where you are coming from. They are less likely to mess with you.
You will have some time to reflect on a lot of things for a while. I have been doing it a long time because I have the time since I no longer work.
I sure hope your wife is better looking than you are. Guys are people you go hunting, fishing, and drinking with. Nobody cares what anybody looks like. Girls always need to look better. Gives you something to think about and do when you are not hunting, fishing, and drinking.
I understand, twotalon. Dang the smileys; full speed ahead. I will say I never challenge anyone to mess with me. I don’t want to look challenging and I don’t want to look like a victim waiting to happen. As you say, never let them know exactly where you’re coming from.
But, oh those dreams!
I still have a couple of days and it looks like rain and more rain. It is so unseasonably warm here I was hoping to mow my yard this weekend. It isn’t the grass but it is low ground cover type growth. I don’t live in a subdivision so we have more varied and interesting plants and animals (not that the subdivisions can have some interesting visitors sometimes; I have downloaded some videos about kangaroos, raccoons, skunks and other creatures that are adapting to “civilization” now that their own habitats have shrunk so much. I hope we can act to preserve something wild in the U.S. and Canada (with equal support for our Russian, U.K. and other friends).
Ken….. warmer there than here. I am itching.Still too cold, but it would not have been in my younger years.
My wife’s son is somewhere around there. Conroe or Porter. Not my son, by the way.
Need to take the mulch setup off the mower before I use it again. Had it on for the leaves. TroyBilt has some strange blades. Hate lawn mowing. Smells good, but hate the work. Also getting splattered by the weed wacker. Fresh hay (clover) smells great too, but baling the stuff sucks.
May have some more perverse stuff tomorrow. Need to get more serious about finding a creature movie or something on TV and drinking beer. Need to feed the cats too.
Look what we’ve done, twotalon. I can’t reply directly to your last post; there isn’t room for whole words left in the column. However, the cats always need to be fed but we love them. I could do with a creature movie. You remind me, I need to burn some videos to a DVD (mostly nature stuff along with documentary’s on people like Wyatt Earp and Jessie James. I’m looking forward to taking a close look at the wild life of the Himalayas, the highest flying geese in the world and the little water snakes that survive because the water is warmed by volcanic action from below among other incredible animals). All stuff I hope to watch while I have days and days of free time.
We have a photograph exhibit here at the college about the Golden Eagle Hunters of Mongolia. You might like reading about them and seeing some pictures. They are far from the suburbs and have trained and hunted with these eagles for a long time. I didn’t know about them but I find them and the eagles fascinating.
“My wife’s son”, I like how you made sure to clarify that he is not your son whom you have disowned.
I didn’t have to disown the scumbag. He ain’t my kid anyway, and I am glad he is not. Bad genetics or something.
Too bad we live so apart. We could have fun shooting, and going to one of those strip joints and getting drunk on our butts. But the meds you might be on could not get along with too much beer.
I was on a lot of drugs. All of them could cause dizziness or drowsiness. I don’t remember how many I took . Some of them interacted. Don’t even remember the names of most of them.
I do remember that I never took one pain pill after surgery. Not even an asprin.
I have been through a bunch of surgeries and some other stuff in the last 3 yrs. I am still here.
While you recover, you can print a lot of targets.
You can also sort pellets, then resort pellets, then do it again a few more times…then pour them all back into the same tins.
Cut cleaning patches.
Laugh about the airgun reviews.
Laugh about the pellet reviews.
Mix .22 and .177 pellets together then sort them back into the right tins. Repeat many times.
You will do O.K. . I am usually right.
🙂 I am laughing but I will have to get a bit bored before I actually go through the pellet unsorting and resorting. I did spill my .22 premier hollow points a couple of days ago, out side, in the grass. At first I left them. Yesterday, I stopped by Academy and picked up a tin of Benjamin .22 hollow points. I enjoyed shooting some of them. Then I began salvaging the spilled pellets. I plan to wash them, dry them, then repair each one; I’ll give them a little time at the spa and then all who pass will be prepared for action and sent back to the front.
I will do okay…it helps to meet those who have already gone ahead and marked the path for us who follow behind. Many thanks.
Cool, Ken! I’ll send you my spilled pellets to pamper too!
Thanks for the offer /Dave. I’m not sure how many pellets I can give such loving attention to. I suppose it depends on how difficult it is to purchase more. As long as they are available and I can afford them I won’t be willing to try to salvage many. It funny how that works, how our perspective can change with the context.
You will get bored, because you can’t do very much. I spent a lot of time just watching TV. I don’t care how many channels are on the satellite…. there is a lot of NOTHING to watch.
The worst thing was all the junk food commercials. That stuff looked and sounded so good. Trouble is, there was no way I could eat it because of certain problems caused by certain medical treatments. I can eat it now though. And I do. I just don’t tell one of my doctors.
Well, I suppose it is best that I know this before hand. You have saved me the rude awakening. And your right; even to take a walk where I live can be risky. Not that I’ve had much problem, but while so vulnerable I don’t need to be accosted by some meth-head. Even if I am armed and have a need to pull the trigger the recoil will not be healthy. Such is life.
You and Pete Z can both talk to me off the blog if you want to for immoral support. Too cold to keep me tied up with outdoor priorities that will come later.
Seen a lot of trouble and know how it is.
For the next few weeks you could do what I did when I had my first neck fusion: order a I really wanted (my FWB C-62), and then spend the time when I couldn’t shoot getting used to the gun. Open it, adjust it, learn how the sights work, how to fill and dump the CO2 cylinders, etc. As the time goes on you get to where you (with help) can lift it to a rest, and then you can sight it in and even get the trigger adjusted to suit.
Good luck, buddy. Remember, nothing by mouth after midnight tonight… 😉 You may be “out” for six hours of surgery, but you’ll never notice the time passing. I knew the repair was successful (the first one) in the recovery room already as certain nerve zingers were gone forever.
Let us know when you’re able to get back on line.
Thanks, Pete. I just had four medium dill pickles. This is Central Time Zone so it is just past 22:30 here. I am so hungry but I don’t need anything. I will be NPO shortly with only a small sip of water prior to surgery. The surgery is out of my hands; I am looking forward to waking up and seeing how I feel then. I have no doubt I will spend the rest of Monday and probably Tuesday sleeping.
I like how you handled the airgun part of your recovery time. I just may follow in your footsteps.
I look forward to letting everyone know I am conscious again.
What’s this “If I get back”, stuff? Putcher big boy pantz on, cupcake! Get in there “git ‘er dun” & get back here, bigger, better & badder than ever! Know Mon’s the day, thoughts & prayers, pal. Hurry back.
Forgive me, Beazer. You are so right. I will be back. I still have too many pellets and too many pellet shooting friends to cash out now. In the immortal words of the Terminator, “I’ll be back” and “Hasta las vista, baby!”
When undergoing medical procedures, it’s normal to think of your mortality and even speak in terms that indicate that. Give those thoughts no quarter in your mind. Replace them with thoughts of getting well, full recovery and all you can accomplish when rehabilitated. It’s not always easy, but sometimes good things take more effort. From what I’ve learned of you on this blog, you’re a man of determination and will see this thru.
When it’s all over, I’ll bet you’ll wish you’d done it sooner 🙂
Thanks a million, Edith. I catch you on the other side for sure!
One more hearty, “Thank you”, Edith. I appreciate you (and B.B.).
Don’t you like the way the advanced evil terminator explodes when shot? No need to feel sorry for him, since he puts himself back together again.
Matt, I just have to emulate him in that sense. It will take a while, but if I do it right, I’ll put myself back together. 🙂
No, I sure don’t remember the Beeman pellet you refer to. Unless you mean the Ace, but I don’t think you do, because it is not that light.
B.B. this pellet has only one land up front and the skirt at the rear. It reminds me of a pawn and also a little rocket. No biggy, I just can’t remember the details myself and hoped my description might trigger a memory for you.
Well, to me the old one wins hands down. It was made in USA and has survived for how many years now? How long until the Chinese plastic starts to denegrate? Will future airgunners be in awe of the Chinese 25 at the show? Now I could see buying a couple of the shot tubes and maybe a main spring.
Good point. I was going to say, something like “looks like they make ’em as good as ever” but the truth is, plastic gets brittle, some of it just turns to dust over time. It biodegrades, or just plain degrades, just fine.
Thanks for the blog Vince.
Something about having a classic reproduced in China does not turn me on too much.
I have no idea how many BBs went through my 25. It got enough wear that it was trying to losd more than one BB at a time. Something like a BB and a half. Caused it to jam up.
Spelling error…load instead of losd.
My grandpa gave me one of those originals that didn’t work when I was about 10. I had it for a long time but don’t remember what happened to it. I was too young and dumb to think about getting it repaired…….didn’t have any money either! My dad said his old Benjamin front pumper was a way better gun. While I heard stories about that one, I never saw it since he had sold it years before I came along.
Cool subject & great writin’. Thanx.
Another great blog, Vince!
It takes me back… In the 60’s, I had the 1894 and my neighbor had the 25. I liked the looks of mine, but not the plastic stock, and liked the wooden stock on his, but not the way cocking mechanism worked. My thought as a wise old kid of 7 or 8 was that the vee linkage was a waste and should have just been a lever. Didn’t know about pump action guns or mechanical advantages yet….
I’ve got 2 1894’s. One my Dad bought me in 1969 or so, it was a Sears variant with the octagonal barrel. I resealed and repainted it a few years ago.
At the time I envied everyone else’s BB gun… a cousin had a Red Ryder, which I prefered because of the easy loading. Another cousin’s friend had a Crosman M1, which I liked because of the look. And then there was my uncle’s Daisy 25.
But the best revenge is to live well – and even though I’m not trying to get revenge on anyone, I now have at least one of each.
Did I oil it first? No, I didn’t – but it was puffing out a fair bit of oil “smoke” (vapor, actually) which indicated that is was still pretty wet inside.
Thanks once again for another great article.
This one was especially interesting to me, as BG_Farmer did an old / new test with the Red Ryder. His conclusions seemed to be about the same as yours in the end. Both rifles shoot about as well as you should expect a BB rifle to shoot. Which is enough to be fun, but not enough to satisfy the dead-eye marksman in all of us. But one gun is closing in on 100 years old.
The thing is, the appeal of BB guns can be summed up it one word. Cheap. Shooting ammo that must be mail ordered, or cost more that $9 for 6000 rounds defeats the purpose.
Unfortunately I have no fond memories of airguns from my youth, because I was not allowed to buy any airguns. Same thing for Go-carts but that is a different story. Essentially, I have no frame of reference to prefer one nostalgic airgun over another one.
What I like about these guns, is that despite being made in China, and having safeties that seem to be designed to be ugly and trigger pull designed to be creepy, they seem to getting back to wood and metal instead of plastic, at least on the outside. The Red Ryder now has a metal cocking lever. The first time I saw this I actually thought there might be hope for the future. Despite owning some very fine airguns, I never come away from shooting the Red Ryder disappointed. It is a joy to shoot.
The real question is, how would they perform if you worked your magic on both of them? One gun is fresh from the factory, the other is at least 85 years old. It would be interesting to see how the guns perform without wear as a consideration. Unfortunately that is impossible, but it would be interesting nonetheless.
“A Christmas Story” can’t be underestimated in its power to recruit new airgunners. It was one of my favorite movies long before I became infected with the airgun bug. Now that I am a hopeless addict, it has gained cult status. Call me crazy, but I would rather watch that than Quigly.
BTW you are a damned good shot, even with a BB gun!
SL, those shots were 15′ (standard BB gun range) and rested. So (believe me) there is no reflection on my shooting!
Congrats on a great blog. After putting away the TF 87 in October last year (i had house guests who came to spend Christmas ) I took it out a couple of weekends ago and did some more fiddling on the trigger-removed the inner trigger spring and replaced it with one i made from a ball point pen spring. Then I adjusted out most of the 1st stage on the trigger and shot some groups @ 21 yds (rested) with different pellets. Got a significant reduction in group size using JSB Exacts RS 13.43 gr pellets.
The previous best for this pellet before the polishing of the trigger parts was 0.50 CTC @ 21 yds. THe best group after the mod is now 0.28 CTC @ 21 yds.
I am convinced after seeing how your advice worked out that the TF87 can do even better so i will continue to reduce the pull weight and try again.
THanks again for all the great advice.
I wrote “it’s” instead of “its”. As a grammar freak this cannot be allowed to stand.
Please make the correction, if you have nothing better to do.
On second thought, take the afternoon off, and watch a movie with the cats. It’s my problem.
Done. I DO have better things to do, but they’re all related to writing. So, I understand your anxiety.
I can’t take off the afternoon. There’s a slew of wonderful new products I have to write up for Pyramyd Air, and I’ve promised to do a certain number of them before I go to sleep tonight. It’s going to be a very long day!
I’m usually not into Bullpup but that one looks… just WOW!!! It looks mean.
Everything else seems to be airsoft 🙁 altought that grenade launcher looks like fun.
Not only did I not have airguns as a kid, I was positively scornful of them. Upon seeing what must have been a Crosman 1377, my thought was: “Ha, not a real gun”…. Well, if anyone is eating crow now it is me. (By the way, I’ve been wondering about that expression. It implies that crows are very distasteful right?)
Great blog, as always, Vince.
SL, I’m with you on Quigley v. Christmas Story. There’s some good shooting in Quigley, but the movie is also kind of a downer. Christmas Story is hilarious, even on the 150th viewing. I probably have seen parts of it that many times: my five-year-old watches it all year around! I’m sure we’ve spent more time in the last year watching Christmas Story than we’ve spent actually shooting! Sigh.
I still remember the little oil marked circle on all my play shirts, because of the shot tube on my 25. I would hold the shot tube against my belly so I could pull the spring back. Back in the early 70s. A few years ago at a neighbors garage sale I asked if he had any BB or pellet guns. He went to his dumpster and said you can have these two if you want them. A Daisy 25 and an old Red Ryder. The Red Ryder is in very bad shape, but the 25 shoots great. AND, I know don’t have to use me belly to compress the spring anymore. lol
BB, I will get a Bronco. Thanks.
I’m one who thinks that in it’s time the new Red Ryders/No.25’s will be just as collectible as the original one is here.
Think about it. When my kids are our age (they are 8 & 11 now) somthing like this original No. 25 will truly be a museum piece.
But they’re Red Ryders, bought new about 4 years ago will hold possibly 30 years of great memories.
They won’t care about where they were made…it’ll be the memories that count.
I bought a well used Daisy 99 and I think it also has a mod. 25 shot tube and barrel (explaining the shotgun like accuracy).
The new ammo sales counter is sweet, I like it.
Time for a weekend Sketchers update.
I bought the Shape-up X-10 : http://www.skechers.com/style/52000/shape-ups-xt/blk
They are considered fitness shoes, as you will notice in the notes.
What an odd feeling shoe was my first impression. When I first put them on I had an immediate like for them. The first thing I noticed was they had a high arch support. My feet and knees have been killing me for quite some time to the point that even when I get out of bed in the morning it is painful walking to the bathroom. I am now wondering if that was the byproduct of improper arch support in my old shoes. I noticed a big improvement the morning after wearing these for one day. At first I thought the arch might be too pronounced but I think that is changing with wear.
I delayed reporting on these because I wanted to give them at least a week to see what would happen over time, and how I would feel after being on my feet for an extended period. Seems like standing in one place bothers me more than walking.
I wore them every day during my normal activities, and last Friday, attended the motorcycle show in Chicago, which had me standing and walking around for four hours without sitting down. This was a good test. My feet and knees were not killing me then or the next day. I take my 93 year old mother grocery shopping every Wednesday and that takes at least two hours of walking and standing around. She is like trying to keep track of a seven year old in a toy store. I would be walking along talking to her, turn around and she is nowhere to be seen. My feet used to hurt really bad searching for her around the store. No more.
As mentioned by Edith, they give the impression of falling forward. The shoes are advertised to be muscle toners, and that they are. They do not provide a rock solid platform but force the leg and ankle muscles to work, unnoticed, for stability. I don’t mean they made me fall over, but they did make me feel slightly unsteady at first. I am conditioned to that now and don’t feel unsteady. They are not 10m shooting shoes by any means. My old Merrills had wide soles at the front making them very stable, where these don’t. I did wear them last Monday to play a round of indoor golf and that worked out ok. The soles are narrow enough to allow my left foot to roll over a bit on follow through where the Merrills would not. I wish I could wear the Shape Ups while walking to the ball and put golf shoes on while hitting.
I like walking in them, but I don’t get that feel as if walking on sand or any massaging. I was looking forward to that. Maybe I’m not heavy enough. I did get that feel a couple times in the heel by stepping down hard on the heel but it doesn’t do that anymore.
Bottom line – I like them, I’ll keep wearing them, I’ll look for some in-soles for my Merrills with arch support to wear when I’m fishing.
I’ve been waiting for your Sketchers report with trepidation. After I convinced you to try them I remembered that they took some getting used to. I wear them all the time now, but at first they were difficult to get used to. The feeling of falling forward was the most disturbing part, but they also pulled my sox down.
And as I wore them, they did break in. My first pair were loafers, but I don’t care for them anymore. They “walk” my sox off my feet as I walk, and I hate that. The other pair are lace-ups and as long as I wear sox that fit, they stay in place all day — even after my one-mile power walks in the afternoon.
I’m glad you took the time to get used to them. And I do believe they will feel even better six months from now. I wouldn’t consider wearing any other shoes, unless it was for a specific purpose.
I was tempted to try other Sketcher shoe models but these Shape Ups have a unique design that I was concerned would not carry over to the other models. I didn’t want to get just another regular shoe. Your loafer crit has turned me away from other models until I can actually try them on. There are some in some of the shoe stores around here so I might look at them again. I’d like to have a casual dress shoe to wear out on occasion.
Woohoo! A big benefit I got from Skechers Shape-Ups is that I’m not putting any weight on my heels & I no longer need to get out that pumice stone. Sounds insignificant & not worth mentioning, but there are millions of men & women who spend millions of dollars a year on emollients and abrasives to get rid of split, dried heels. By removing the weight off the heel and forcing it onto the trunk of the body (the muscle core), your feet are no longer doing the support work your body’s been sloughing off 🙂
I don’t know if this applies to dry heels but my fingers used to dry out and crack at the joints and at the edge of my nails and hurt like crazy. The only thing I found to actually heal that was “Look Ma New Hands” lotion with parafin found at Bath and Body Works. Use it like any hand lotion. Just topical application on the split is not enough. My problem was my whole hands were drying out as winter came and I started wearing gloves. When my fingers start to crack I treat both my hands liberally with the stuff when I go to bed. I see a dramatic difference over night. And they are healed after two days application. I buy it every Christmas for my mom and others and they like it, too. It might work on feet as well, I don’t have that problem.
Edith, the only store that sells Sketchers in my area is Palais Royal. They had no Shape-Ups so I bought a pair of Energy-Downforce. I still plan to get a pair of Shape-Ups, but having taken a three mile walk in these I am completely satisfied with my purchase. The only pair of shoes/boots I have paid over $30.00 for in the past ten years or so were the one that had a steel shank, some electric shock prevention, steel toe and whatever else was required at the time purchase. I used to pay a lot more for foot wear but frankly, it wasn’t the best for my feet (mostly boots made for being seen in). Right now, I think Sketchers will be looked at before each shoe/boot purchase.
I bought my Sketchers online at their web site. The XTs are still on sale there for $55 if they have youe size.
Thanks for that information, Chuck.
Aha, falling forward is a critical ingredient of the barefoot running/ChiRunning method. There is a ChiWalking method that you might want to look into by Googling. Combine that with the Systema method of synchronizing your breathing with your walking–one breath to X number of steps–and you will be able to walk all day like Neanderthal Man.
The hunt goes on for the mysterious “monkeywood” on Chinese guns. My B30 has less of a reddish tint than seen elsewhere. Whatever it is, I actually like it, and it impresses people at the range. So, what is the Chinese plan to figure out which guns to copy? We’ve got classics like the Daisy 25, high-end guns like the TX200 (MAV77), RWS 48 (B30). Is there any method to this?
Thanks B.B. for rerunning the test between the MAV77 and the TX200. If the gods aren’t watching (aka Conan the Barbarian), I will be. I wasn’t likely to forget the gnats which not only screwed up the original test but were quite the memorable trial of their own.
Nice photo of the week. Very social although I cannot say much for the shooting position.
On the subject of photos, can anyone identify the rifle carried by the mysterious and sinister mountain man of Utah (and make a contribution to public safety in the process)?
I’m stumped. The barrel is short. It looks like there is some kind of rib on top of the barrel, and the bolt handle appears to be on backwards. This is either some customized rifle or some very obscure model I’ve never seen before.
Shakespeareans, thanks for your thoughts. In view of the interest (and the weekend), I’ll venture some additional points. You laugh at the alternative candidate for Shakespeare! The critical argument for me has actually been raised fairly recently and is simple to state. Whoever wrote the Shakespeare plays was not only very gifted with language, but was also extremely knowledgeable. He not only knew far more words than any other writer, but he had expert knowledge of just about every profession; an intimate knowledge of courtly life; was very widely-traveled; and most importantly had read just about everything of importance. This has been reconciled with the simple origins of William Shakespeare by saying that he was a genius. Well, there is a difference between being a genius and being clairvoyant. No matter how smart you are, you cannot know what is in books without actually reading them. Many of these (in contrast to our own environment of internet access) were kept in the private libraries of the rich, and Edward de Vere was one of the very few people (not Shakespeare) who would have had access to this kind of knowledge and the time to read it. There are other things (like the fact that almost all the Shakespeare plays have exact counterparts in de Vere’s life and that the daughters of William Shakespeare–the greatest literary genius of all time supposedly–were totally illiterate) but the access to books seems most telling to me.
The harder question is what this has to do with airgunning. I would say in response that Shakespeare is NOT UNrelated to airgunning. 🙂 One of our persistent themes has been the connection between shooting and democracy. In terms of history, culture, and the very activity of controlling great power and exerting oneself physically and mentally to that end, guns and democracy are inextricably joined. Now the question is: “What exactly is democracy?” (Adopting my best Bill Clinton imitation.) We are accustomed to think of it in terms of laws and principles like the 2nd Amendment and the right to free speech. But, as is painfully apparent now and through history, there any number of different ways that basically well-intentioned people can interpret them. You cannot fully legislate human nature. There needs to be other forces to make things cohere and work together. For instance, the fundamental question of states rights was ultimately solved by force and not argumentation. But you cannot resort to force too often and still have a free society.
As another candidate, consider the SOUND of democracy. The Forgotten Soldier makes a big deal about the German martial music that sustained the soldiers in their crazy invasion of Russia and other trials. Notwithstanding the evil purpose it was put to, this music is quite extraordinary with a cohesive social effect all based in the sophisticated musical culture of Germany and its romantic tradition. Do we have something comparable? We certainly have patriotic songs. While working at a nursing home, I witnessed the residents–almost all women and mostly in wheelchairs–observing the Fourth of July by belting out the Air Force song: “We will live in fame/Or go down in flames/Nothing will stop the U.S. Air Force!”) But in addition to these rituals, I think that what must be more powerful is that which is more pervasive and at work everyday.
It was mentioned that Shakespeare’s power had to do with his ability to go from elaborate, stylized rhetoric to vernacular. Put a different way, you could say that his big achievement lay in converting the ordinary rhythms of English speech into poetry. These lines could appear in ordinary conversation.
“I have no way and therefore want no eyes. I stumbled when I saw.”
“Your power is taken off, and Cassio rules in Cyprus.”
“If you have any more to say, for God’s sake hold it in, for I am almost ready to dissolve.”
But they are in some of the most famous scenes of Othello and King Lear. Through some incredibly subtle artistry, something that sounds like ordinary language is converted to high art, and there is something deeply democratic about this. I do wonder if much of Shakespeare’s appeal in the Western tradition has to do with this democratizing function which gives a model for how free people can speak and act and (unlike occasional rituals) surrounds as every day. (The fact that this may have been written by an aristocrat instead of a commoner becomes very interesting indeed, but ultimately it doesn’t alter the effect of the language as it has come down to us.) As part of Shakespeare’s signature, there is a certain individually assertive, kick-butt quality to the language.
“Kill all the lawyers.”
“Come on then, and take the chance of anger.”
As to what this really sounded like, academics describe it in terms of iambic pentameter and “scansion”, but I think that it’s more interesting to observe that the closest modern equivalent to Shakespeare’s English is in the regional dialect of the sunny South! What we think of today as a British accent (and there are many variations) is actually a departure from what was essentially preserved with the English settlers in Virginia. You can hear the Shakespearean rhythms in those traditional American heroes Bob Lee Swagger and his father Earl from the Stephen Hunter books! At one point Earl tells a gangster: “I don’t give a hoot what Mr. Maddox likes or what he don’t like.” And Bob Lee says, “I will by God find him and face him down, and we’ll see who walks away.” You can hear the same assertive, straightforward rhythms in Tom Paine’s pamphlet Common Sense that played a big role in the Revolutionary War: “These are the times that try men’s souls.” Or, “The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it NOW deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.” The point of all this is that democracy may be exercised as much in the way that people talk to each other (on a blog for instance :-)), and Shakespeare as a sort of basic researcher, may have contributed a great deal to our ideas of how to do this.
As for favorite lines, it looks like the St. Crispin’s Day speech is a great favorite which is not surprising with its military orientation and inspirational quality. Note too that it is highly democratic (Anyone who wishes to leave in the face of an overwhelming enemy can go and “safe home”?!?) My favorites generalize the same self-reliant way of meeting opposition to the whole variety of challenges that one can encounter. For example, MacBeth to the witches:
“If you can look into the seeds of time?/And say which grain will grow and which will not/Speak then to me who neither beg nor fear/Your favors nor your hate.”
Or from Midsummer Night’s Dream:
“This is the silliest stuff that ever I heard.”
Which would work well in response to Justin Bieber.
“Shakespeare?That bloke with a beard or the other one,DeVere the diamond seller?”
The response from your average Brit today if asked about the man or anything to do with him.
Ever wondered what happened to the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians,The Romans?
Same thing that’s happened to us I guess.
Oh man, Matt! You’ve put Justin B. In the same post as Shakespeare….
Matt, an audio file of Paine’s Common Sense can be found at librivox.com; I realize not everyone is looking for audio files. However, I think it is a great way to spend time while taking a trip. When I’m not listening to the most conservative hosts I can find and I find all of the music to be warmed over stuff that wasn’t that good to start with, I really want to listen to old time radio but I will listen to some classic literature and other things that have passed into the public domain.
Anyway, Paine’s Common Sense is there; I just thought I’d mention it. I have a student who needed this and another called Heroes of American History. I found his main text book at Learning Ally, where we have a membership, but sometimes I find narrative texts at librivox or a few other places.
Yes, I am busy with last minute things but I just can’t help getting on the blog when I have a little time.
I feel compelled to state that my conservatism includes all human beings and many that aren’t (it doesn’t bother me to think about executing those who kill gorillas to poach or as a part of someone’s political statement but I would execute them as human beings without regard to race, color, creed, religion, country of origin, party affiliation, sex, sexual preference or who they voted for in the last election).
What do you teach?
Pete, I do some teaching but that is not my profession. I am the coordinator of the Assistive Technology lab at Lone Star College – Kingwood (one of the five main campuses of the Lone Star College System). I work with students who are referred to me by the Disability Services counselors. Librivox recordings are available to everyone, but the recordings I get from Learning Ally require that the student be given an accommodation for a “reading disability”. This is not an official diagnosis but rather it describes a functional disability a person has. This can be due to a learning disability or other cognitive issue but it can also be because the person just had cervical disccectomy with fusion and cannot hold a book to read it 🙂 I think you get the picture in spite of my jest.
Anyway, I do work with students who do have a medical diagnosis of some disability. I am never told what the diagnosis is nor do I need it. I deal with functional issues, not diagnoses. All of this falls under the ADA and the older Rehabilitation Act of 1973 with its amendments and more recently, declarations by the DOJ, the DOE, the Office of Civil Rights and the DOA (okay, not the last one).
Thanks for asking, Pete. I hope this is an adequate answer.
Justice is served by punishing a gorilla poacher with death?
Probably not, Vince, but I would likely favor a prison term more stiff than others might.
Matt, that librivox.org not .com, but I am not surprised if you already know that. Here is yet another, though. Goto http://airriflemildotscopes.blogspot.com/ and check this out, a blog about scopes but also literature. The blog for today points to Part 2 of Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice (which in turn is located here on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7wBM4dlYXs&feature=player_embedded
It looks like they have a lot.
There is a program called Super; it actually calls on a number of pieces of code that are already on your computer or else are freely available. What Super can do is strip audio out of videos and leave you with an audio file which is smaller and which you can easily manipulate further.
Getting Super isn’t too difficult but the install program is hidden among numerous things you don’t want to download (I’ll just assume that for you in advance). In fact, it is definitely Caveat Emptor; even if I had the exact location of the program I couldn’t tell you I am sure it is okay (I do have the exact location but not here). I have used Super and have had no problems but I must say use caution if you ever attempt to get it.
Have a good one,
The pictured rifle is a Remington 600. The dogleg bolt and rib were unpopular, and it was made only for a few years. Not bad rifles, I understand.
I want to thank Vince for this great article. The 25 is truly a classic design, even the parts are interchangable after 90 years!
I remember the Model 25 from when I was a kid. A neighbor kid had one, and I really admired it. I had a Model 95, and shot it until it was completely worn out.
Today I took my granddaughter Melanie to the range. She shot one of my Red Ryders. It was a lot of fun shooting targets in the snow, brought back my days with the 95. Cold weather and snow never kept me from shooting back then.
Even over here you have stirred a bit of nostalgia with your great article.
I don’t think we ever had the Daisy 25 BB guns in this country when I was a kid growing up.
If we did have them,it was the best kept secret since Bletchley park as to where they were that is all I can say.
I do remember seeing the adverts for Daisy BB guns though.
On the back of imported DC superhero comics and I might be wrong but did the advert feature on the little ‘Bazooka Joe’ bubblegum wrapper comic as well?
I never envied The Hulk his powers but what turned me green with envy was that kid in the Daisy advert.
Our thread was getting slim so I’ll put my reply here on the current blog article. I understand what you said in your last comment.
Here’s something I’m going to try: I’m going to chamber a waddcutter then push it back out with a Dewey rod or perhaps the really thick weed whacker line and examine the head for nicks. I don’t know if it will have contacted the rifling grooves by doing that but I should be able to tell the difference between rifling and damage. I don’t think either a Dewey rod or the weed whacker line will damage a crown. I’ll wait for some opinions before doing that. The Challenger is my most favorite rifle and I’m even careful about breathing near the crown.
You can push pellets out with almost anything if you are careful. I have used brass brazing rods (the bare ones) and the bronze cleaning rods. I am a little touchy about using dewy rods from the muzzle. After cleaning a few barrels, the coating gets rubbed off in places. You can still do it, but be very careful.
One thing about pushing pellets back out of a barrel with a 90 degree transfer port is that the skirt will often snag the transfer port on the way back out.
Speaking of pushing pellets……
This is something I always do from the breech end if the rifle allows it (new rifle or barrel)…
I feel out the fit of the pellet as it is slowly pushed through the bore. I look for loose, tight, and rough spots. If choked or tightest at the muzzle for any other reason, I will also stop short of the tight spot and push them back out to see if the pellet head has been gripped by the rifling up to that point. I do this with certain barrels because some have a deep inleade that can cause the larger skirt to grab first.
When pushing pellets, I have seen some barrels that do this….
When slowly pushed out the muzzle, the head of the pellet always turns a certain direction. This means that there is a problem.
Has anyone noticed that something extraordinary is happening here? Vince gives us a great article about old and new #25s, and the comments left in its wake strike me as very open and ‘soft’ (only word that come so mind)…more so than I’ve ever noticed here before. It’s as if nostalgia has awakened some magic in us all. Good going, Vince! I had a late ’50s 25, and last month I bought the newer Chinese copy. I am revisiting my childhood and, at 65, it feels great.
Robert in Arcade,
You mentioned a desire to own a Sterling HR-81. You may already have acquired one from a mutual friend of ours 😉
If not, you may want to look at this one:
Hi, Kevin. Is it you who is a professional photographer? While searching for information on identifying airgun pellets I came across the following site (I had to be specific about the airgun part; turns out there are more kinds of pellets in the world than I had thought).
Any way, you and other members of the blog might like the page (lots of pictures of various pellets).
Me, a professional photographer? Not sure you realize it but you’ve just told the best joke ever on this site. Congratulations! 🙂
Whomever that Kevin is I thank him since I’ve used his database about pellets many times.
Admittedly I don’t buy a lot of different pellets, but it seems to me that “geriffelt” pellets were more in fashion 20 years ago. And they seem to be less common today. Even some “match” pellets (I think) were geriffelt ‘way back, but I haven’t seen any advertised lately.
Any idea why the trends? The old Beeman catalogs used to say that there was no difference in accuracy between smooth-skirt and “corrugated” skirt pellets.
The ribbed skirt is not a trend or a style. It’s the imprint of a manufacturing method. Some machinery puts ribs in while other machinery doesn’t. Robert Beeman has said that there is no identifiable difference in performance between a ribbed skirt and a plain one.
Some airgunners have come up with fancy theories about disrupting the laminar airflow, but the fact is, the head of the pellet forces air away from the waist when the pellet is in flight, so the plain or ribbed surface is in a partial vaccum.
OK, a ribbed or smooth skirt is a mark of the machinery used, but still there’s fashion in everything (right, Edith?). And I would think that manufacturers might think of giving a pellet a smooth (more modern, cleaner) look vs a “nostalgic” one. Or something. The photosbykev website shows that the same manufacturers put out both styles, so they may be invested in both types of machinery.
The aerodynamics of a pellet are, I think, rather more complex than you indicate. Among other things, drag is highly influenced by the boundary layer, and I would expect there to be a boundary layer along the skirt. I said that the old Beeman catalogs said there’s no performance difference, and to first order I’ve no reason to agree. But in second order there might be (including a range difference) or even a Magnus effect on behavior.
Still, I think the ribbed pellet is giving way to the smooth skirt. Any idea why?
Well, I’m no expert, but after watching the Crosman pellet-making machinery a couple times I think the smooth skirt has got yo be the easier method. There is less mechanical manipulation of the pellet and therefore it’s easier to maintain uniformity.
But that’s just a guess.
I suspect that’s right. So it might, once you’ve mastered the technique, be easier and cheaper to make good pellets with smooth skirts.
I know this thread is an old one, but then, so am I. A couple of weels ago, I got a Daisy No. 25 BB gun. Though I have a couple of CO2 handgun BB shooters, I was without a smooth bore long gun, since both of my Daisy Model 35’s had failed in less than a years time. I don’t want to risk firing BB’s in my multi pump rifles, as I am afraid of doing damage to the rifling. Yet, I wanted a long gun BB shooter that I could target shoot with quietly and even inside the house. I chose the Daisy No. 25 after watching a few youtube videos that showed some decent accuracy. I’m still working with it as far as accuracy potential. It has that flip up rear peep sight, or the “V-notch” shaped blade. The front sight is not a post, but really, a short post with a circular eyelet at the top. As always, my crappy 61 year old eyesight is a big problem. It works the best without my prescription eyeglasses. To me, the V shaped rear open sight makes it really hard to line up the front and rear sights especially with the elevation. The rear blade is quite blurred to me is the reason. When I use the peep, ir seems a little better, but the hole in the rear peep, with my eyes, is not a round circle. It’s more of an oval with the longer distance being the windage. I can see the front post all right, and the target too.
My Daisy, at first, after loading the tubular magazine and installing the assembly back into the barrel, would sometimes let one or two BB’s loose from the mag, and they would roll out of the gun. That seems to be improving with use, and the last 2-3 times I’ve shot the 25, it’s been fine.
The trigger is all right. I’ve got air guns that are worse (my Crosman 1077). I’ve shot maybe 200 BB’s through the new gun so far, and it seems to be functioning as intended. I’m shooting it at about 15 feet, and my best groups of 5 are around an inch, or slightly less. Most groups are bigger than that, but I’m still getting used to the gun.
What’s more important is that I find this little BB gun fun to shoot, and quick and easy to set up in my house and I enjoy shooting 50 or more rounds of 5 shot groups with it. I’m using Daisy BB’s, and plan to get some Umarex brand ones soon to try them out. As a BB catcher, I use about a 10″ by 14″ cardboard box, with several layers of folded cardboard inside the box to stop the flying BB’s inside the box, and it a clothespin holds the target to the box at the top.
This gives me a super easy, quick, cheap, efficient, and fun way to get in some target shooting almost any time I get the urge to shoot.
And, yes, I did have a BB gun when I was a kid. It’s long gone now, but I believe it was a Daisy model 95 lever action.
Welcome to the blog. Your long comment got caught in our spam filter and I had to remove it and post it for you.
Daisy BBs should do well in your new gun, and Umarex BBs should do about the same. Don’t forget to oil the gun periodically. Five drops of household oil down the barrel with the shot tube taken out, or use the oil hole if there is one.