by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
BSA Airsporter Stutzen was the final version of the Airsporter with a tap.
This report covers:
• Your interests
• Gamo: Yes or no?
• Get over it!
• Firing cycle
• Velocity with RWS Hobby pellets
• RWS Superpoint pellets
• Webley Flying Scott High Velocity Twin Ring pellets
• Cocking effort
• Evaluation so far
We all learned about the BSA Airsporter in the last report, and I got some important feedback from readers. Apparently, these rifles have been sold at airgun shows right under my nose without my knowledge. The one thing that’s certain is that I’m not the only one who knows how nice this rifle is. Several of you know it and are smart enough to stay under the radar as you pick up these air rifles at airgun shows. I hope to see some of these at the Ft. Worth Airgun Show in September.
There were several things the blog readers commented on in the first report. Several of you said you liked the stutzen styling, which is why I mentioned that stutzens are not specific to any one manufacturer. A couple folks noticed how this rifle resembles the Diana 430 Stutzen, and I agree they do look similar. But they aren’t alike at all. The Diana rifle has an entirely different powerplant design and cocking linkage; and even though it resembles this one, it isn’t the same or even that close.
The Diana 430 Stutzen has a sliding compression chamber, like the TX200 Mark III. You load the pellet directly into the breech of the barrel of that rifle. This BSA Airsporter Stutzen has a loading tap that accepts the pellet. When the gun fires, the air blast blows the pellet from the tap into the breech, and that results in some power loss when compared to a rifle that takes the pellet directly into the breech.
Power output was another topic you discussed a lot. Some of you hoped this rifle would make 12 foot-pounds, but a few readers guessed that it’s more of an 8 to 9 foot-pound airgun. Today is velocity day so we will see exactly what this particular rifle will do.
Gamo: Yes or no?
Then there was some discussion on whether or not this rifle was made by BSA in England or by Gamo in Spain after Gamo bought BSA. Here’s the answer: This rifle was made by the BSA company in Birmingham, England, before the company was sold to Gamo.
I related that I had tested a Gamo Stutzen with a rotary breech many years ago and didn’t care for it, and that kicked off a round of discussions. Fred_BR, our Brazilian reader, said he has a .22-caliber Gamo Stutzen with rotary breech that he loves. He found it difficult to understand what my objections were.
Some of you were angry that Gamo owns BSA and continues to build and sell spring rifles under that name, which I guess is similar to the Chinese owning Beeman and making and selling air rifles under that name. I understand that sentiment. When Umarex purchased Hämmerli and started to sell airguns made in China under that name, it really set me off. I’d always been a fan of the hand-built Hämmerli free pistols that cost thousands of dollars, and it just didn’t seem right to use that prestigious name to sell something inexpensive and mass-produced. When Crosman came out with a spring rifle they called the Benjamin Super Steak a few years ago, I went nuts! As far as I was concerned, the name Streak belonged to a Sheridan airgun.
Get over it!
But we just have to let it go. Brand changes are a fact of life and will always be with us. If they weren’t, there would be no such thing as Redline Levis jeans and Cleveland 335 Ford engines. The most we enthusiasts can do is identify those models that have the features we want and pursue them over the rest of the items bearing similar names but different specifications.
That being said, I was prepared not to like this rifle when I got it. I remembered the harsh firing cycle of the Gamo Stutzen .177 rifle I tested for The Airgun Letter and expected this one to be the same. But it isn’t. Where the Gamo was harsh, this BSA is smooth. The first shot told me this is a completely different air rifle from what I’d expected.
Velocity with RWS Hobby pellets
The first pellet I tested was the lightweight RWS Hobby. Since this rifle is a taploader, you need pellets with wide skirts that are also thin so they can spread out and fill the tap chamber when the air blast hits them. A number of popular pellets I tested were 100 f.p.s. slower than expected because they were either too small for the tap or their skirts would not distort with the shot. But Hobbys are both larger in diameter and also have thin skirts. As far as pellet seating is concerned, it isn’t possible with a taploader. You just drop it in nose-first and you’re done. The pellet takes it from there.
Hobbys averaged 800 f.p.s. on the nose. The low was 795 f.p.s., and the high was 804 f.p.s., so the maximum spread was only 9 f.p.s. That’s an indication that the Hobby is a good pellet for this rifle. At the average velocity, Hobbys generate 9.95 foot-pounds at the muzzle, which is certainly on the high side of many of the guesstimates.
RWS Superpoint pellets
As I mentioned, I did try pellets from other makers, but they were all too slow –which indicates they aren’t sealing well in the tap. But I knew RWS Superpoints also have a thin skirt from my work with the Hakim, which is also a taploader, so I decided to give them a try. Superpoints weigh 8.2 grains in .177 caliber, so they aren’t the lightweights Hobbys are, but their thin skirts may compensate for that.
Superpoints averaged 766 f.p.s. in the Stutzen, with a low of 759 f.p.s. and a high of 770 f.p.s. The spread is only 11 f.p.s., which indicates this is also a good pellet for this rifle. The pellets that dropped 100 f.p.s. from what was expected also had large velocity spreads between individual shots, which shows how inconsistent they are in this rifle. At the average velocity, Superpoints generated 10.69 foot-pounds of muzzle energy — putting to rest the rumor that this is a weak spring-piston rifle. I believe the rifle I have is up to snuff and performing as well as can be expected.
Webley Flying Scot High Velocity Twin Ring pellets
Here’s a pellet most U.S. shooters don’t know. I know these are no longer being made in the UK; but since the usual pellets weren’t working, I decided to give them a try. The Flying Scot is a domed pure lead pellet that has a very thin skirt. They also stop about halfway down in the BSA loading tap, which makes them the largest of the 3 pellets I tested. The weight varies from 7.3 grains to 7.5 grains, but most of the pellets weighed 7.3 grains.
Webley Flying Scot pellets are pure lead domes. They’re lightweight with thin skirts.
Flying Scot tin
Flying Scots averaged 775 f.p.s. in the BSA, with a low of 758 f.p.s. and a high of 791 f.p.s., with a spread of 33 f.p.s. — much greater than either of the other two pellets. This is an indication that this pellet is probably not a premium pellet and may not have good accuracy. But I’ll test it. At the average velocity, the Flying Scot produced 9.74 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
This rifle cocks with a maximum of 29 lbs. of effort. Most of the time the scale needle stays around 26 lbs., but it always does spike up to 29 lbs. early in every cocking stroke. It feels more like 40 lbs., though, because of where the cocking linkage pivot point is located.
The non-adjustable 2-stage trigger takes up with about 1 lb., 3 oz. for the first stage, then stage 2 releases at 4 lbs., 14 oz. The trigger shape and linkage is so perfectly placed that it feels like half that.
Evaluation so far
This BSA Stutzen rifle has surprised me at every turn. I expected not to like it, yet found it to be smooth-shooting with a light, crisp trigger. I expected lower power than I’m seeing in this test, so obviously this rifle can perform. I know BSA has a reputation for making great barrels, so I can’t wait to see how it does on targets. That’s next.
129 thoughts on “BSA Airsporter Stutzen: Part 2”
I bought a Jeep built in the US by Fiat but it does have an American 360 Hemi or is it? The ZF gearbox German? The floor pan German. Guess it is a United Nations breed.
Sounds like AMC to me. What year is it.
2013. Don’t think I have heard of AMC.
AMC was American Motors Corporation back in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s and maybe earlier I guess.
It was a mix of car parts. They took transmissions from one brand and rear ends from another. And so on.
Some of the cars they made was the Rambler, Javelin, Gremlin, Hornet and Pacer and I think Spirit was another. Chrysler sold them.
And I forgot. General Motors has had something to do with Australian made cars in the earlier days and I guess still today also.
But they always named the cars different for Australia and same when they made them for Canada. the GM cars anyway. Maybe the AMC’s also back then.
And I bet your Jeep has the Hemi. And see what I mean. I don’t think Chrysler offers a 360 in America in a Jeep unless its a SRT maybe. Australia and Canada back in the muscle car days always got the big engines that couldn’t’ be had in a certain model in the US.
One of my most favorite muscle cars that I had was a Canadian built Oldsmobile 1968 442 with a 455 and a 4 speed. In 68 the biggest engine you could get in the US in a 442 was a 400 cubic inch engine. So alot of people in those days pulled whatever strings they could to get the bigger engines.
So maybe it still works that way there. I’m not sure.
Writing to fast. I should say that maybe they offer the bigger engines in Australia still.
AMCs were made not too far from where Sheridans were made!
GM owns Holden. Who makes some cars they export back to the USA. The current SS is one and the last time they sold a GTO that was also a Holden car exported from the land of Kangaroos to the land of Bald Eagles.
I never new that you could get a 455 in a 442. The 442 designation stood for 400 ci, 4 speed and dual exhaust. that is interesting.
Yes GM did sell some of it model over in Australia and still do under the name of Holden. The resurrection of the Pontiac GTO in 06 was an Australian built Holden that they had been selling there for many years and finally decided to sell it stateside. It was a little to late as by then GM was phasing out Pontiac and Oldsmobile from their product lines.
Yep in Canada they could get the 455.
And what 442 stood for when they first came out was. 4bl.,4spd. and dual exhaust. And then that changed as time went on.
I meant to state 400 4BBL, 4speed and dual exhaust, I just forgot the 4BBl part. I guess it was what part of the country you were in also as to what 442 stood for back then, heck I can’t remember yesterday much less forty years ago. Oh yea what were we talking about.
At least everyone remembers what GTO stands for,Gran Turismo Omologato, right?
That’s dead on right it was to try to peak the publics interest by aligning the car with the exotic European cars of the 60s and 70s. You would be surprised at how many people do not know what the GTO stood for, I know the slang term was Gas, Tires and Oil and to some extent was true because it would use some gas and tires for sure. The one I had was modified by the original owner who was a mechanic at a Pontiac dealer in Colorado who replaced the center carbs throttle plate and outer carbs linkage with one from a corvette 427 tri power setup so that the outer carbs could be disconnected from the middle one to help with mileage by only using the tri power when you wanted it. The stock Pontiac linkage was not capable of being unhooked so the three carbs were working all the time and made gas mileage suffer . My goat would get 18 mpg around town on just the center carb and 22 to 23 mpg on the highway at 80 mph. but open the tri power and you could watch the gas gauge drop with every stomp of the pedal.
I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it but in the early days I owned a AMC Concord for awhile. It was a manual transmission and the clutch was made almost entirely of plastic. It broke a lot. A lot.
I remember when the Goofy movie came out and I took my son who was like 5 then to see it. Goofy’s car was an AMC Pacer. So Perfect. 🙂
I do remember those also.
Shame on you, don’t ever forget the sleeper AMX that surprised a lot of other hot rods on the street or the hot-rodded red,white and blue rambler . I was not a bog fan of AMC back then but the AMX was a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
And don’t forget the Javelin! Very hot car.
As for the Concord with the standard transmission, it could have been WORSE. Late 1960s and early 1970s AMCs with automatics had transmissions made by Borg-Warner. Rebuilding / replacing those was the bread-and-butter of many a transmission shop back in the day. AMCs of that era also had body issues. After the late ’60s AMCs were junk except for the engines, which in general were excellent.
But one of the most reliable cars of all time was the ’59 Rambler, excellent both in sedan and wagon configurations. My folks had first a ’59, and then they made the mistake of buying a ’71 Matador wagon and an ’80, I think, Eagle wagon with four-wheel drive. Those last two were as horrible as the ’59 was great.
AMC was bought by Chrysler solely for its Jeep brand name. The Racine/Kenosha plant was quickly shuttered, all AMC brands were discontinued, and Jeep production moved to Michigan.
Anyone remember the old novelty song “The Little Nash Rambler”? Beep beep, beep beep.
The javelin was a spin off of the AMX because the it did not have a back seat and AMC wanted to appeal to more than just the young crowds at the time so the javelin was made to fill that niche.
I worked on many a AMC back in those days and we did do a lot of tranny work until they switched to Chrysler trans. I do remember when they folded and Chrysler bought them solely for the jeep brand.
I remember the song although it was not my genre of choice, long live rock and roll.
“Long Live Rock ‘n’ Roll” I remember that one, too! Ritchie Blackmore’s Rainbow 1977? ’78? R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio, you were taken away much too soon.
Amen to that, way to soon. Also Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin.
I do miss the 60s and 70s.
I always liked the concept of the Eagle but hardly ever saw them going down the road. They were always parked somewhere with outrageous prices on their windshields for needing work. Glad I didn’t fall into that trap
My buddy had a AMX when were kids.
I almost bought an AMX back when I was looking for a hot rod, but got a 69 goat instead. looking back I should have got the AMX because it was faster but not having a back seat was a downfall because it limited you to how many chicks you pick up as most did not want to sit in back and be thrown all over the place because there was nothing to hang on to. Hindsight is 20/20, but the car I wish I still had over all that I owned was my 64 goat that was the start of the muscle car craze with 389 tri power 4 speed Muncie close ratio and 3.30 12 bolt posi rear. It is the car that was built to outrun the 327 fuelie vette in 1/4 mile showroom stock wars. The model I had would do 12.70s in the 1/4 mile off the showroom floor, it was void of power steering, power brakes , a/c, sound proofing and mastic, only had a AM radio and alternator, 4 wheel drum brakes with a single cylinder master cylinder and weighed only 2875 pounds full of fuel. It was a sport roadster body style with the wing vent windows and a full frame around the door glass and only 650 of the total 6500 goats were made in that option package of delete everything except what was absolutely necessary, it did not even have seat belts in it.
The GTO was an option you ordered at the Pontiac dealer until 67 when it got its on VIN. That is how John Delorean and Fred Wagners were able to sneak it through GMs corporate big wigs policy of mid sized cars not having an engine bigger than 350 CI by making it an option rather than a model. Pontiac sold all 64, 65 and 66 goats because it was an option that had to be ordered from the dealer level and when GM big wigs caught on and saw how many of the tempest’s were ordered with the goat option that they decided to give it is own VIN and sell it as it own model. That’s when the ad Put A Tiger in your Tank came out. I actually had a fake tiger tail hanging out of the trunk of mine.
Sounds like that car was part of GM’s “Swiss Cheese” army built for the track, their frames were lightened by cutting huge holes in them everywhere that they could get away with it. And when you got ’em on a rack you knew where the term Swiss Cheese came from.
I don’t know about the swiss cheese army of GM race Cars. My goat’s frame did not have any extra holes cut out of it to make it lighter. it just did not have any frills or luxury items added to it , like I said it only had an AM radio and an alternator on the engine and had no extra soundproofing materials or the mastic glue to seal body seams and such on it. it was as bare bone as they came and meant to go fast only with no creature comforts of any kind.
Here’s a crash coursehttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDgQtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOpjEmThal_w&ei=EZfNU_CgCIja8AGCgIEY&usg=AFQjCNEK5PuxeBIO92kV9ylVnnLYZu7tvQ&sig2=RXwc0AC4Kd4p3vsBxlFEuQ
While the Javelins and AMX’s had the sexy lines, it was the Hornet that was the sleeper” Grannies grocery getter just roasted em for a block!” My first time behind the wheel of a Gremlin involved a whole lotta spinning-The tires were spinning the steering wheel and whole car likewise 😉 .
I forgot that they did make some gremlins with the 304 V8 in them, to bad they would not put that 390 in them then they really would have been fun. The 304 was still plenty of fun that’s for sure.
Kinda reminds me of the Chevy Monza’s with the 350 in them, they were sure a hand full also and if you get them to hook up they would twist the uni body sub frame and then you would have a car that would go down the rod sideways. they were a real pain to change plug on also, the motors flat rate manual gave 4.2 hours for a tune up because you had to undo the left motor mount and jack up the engine to replace the front two plugs on the drivers side.
That’ the back 2 plugs, I had a girlfriend that had a Buick Skyhawk and a few friends with V-8 Monza’s. I always wanted to drop a 302 in my ’73 Mercury Capri. That 2 bbl Weber definitely took care of business!
Nope it was the front two on the drivers side because the steering shaft was only 1/4 inch away from the plug boot and you could not even get the boot off until you undid the mount to raise the engine for clearance, I know as it took me over an hour just to figure out you had to raise the engine on the first one I did a tune up on. the flat rate manuals gave 4.2 hours for a tune up on those V8 Monzas.
Maybe I was thinking about the Vega. I always wanted to small block one of those! I can’t afford to play the power game any more. I had a buddy that built a rack of Webers and hogged out the head for a ’81 Toyota Corolla. If not for the 12″ wide rear tires you’d swear it was completely innocent
Sorry ’bout that.
I was not trying to say you were wrong but I worked on so many Monzas that I had it down to a science for tune up that paid 4.2 hours and was doing them in 1 1/2 hours making good money for sure.
I still have a 78 Datsun 620 Pickup with twin S.U. carbs from a 63 MG on it with a header and rally cam that ran mid 14 second quarters. It doesn’t run any more because the rust got the better of it but it was a stop light to stop light little demon as I would come out of the hole at 6000rpm and shift at 8000rpm.
73 Capri??? 2.0 or 2.6? I raced a 2.0 in EMRA ST4 for a few years… the V6 wasn’t quite competitive with the allowable mods.
The South Africans did a semi-factory conversion using a 289, and for a relatively mild street car they didn’t have to change the rear.
2.0, My Dad warned me about the V6’s. At the time it was enough to keep me in trouble.It was the first car I’d driven at over 120mph. And turns out, almost more fun than his ’76 Cobra- just too heavy!
Wouldn’t have been hard to get the 2.0 quicker than the “Cobra” of 1976. I had a whole bunch of Capri’s, a 74 2.0 that was my daily driver for a while would do low seven’s 0-60 (probably mid-upper 15’s over the 1/4, but I never dragged it) with mild mods. The V8 Mustang II was hard pressed to break 10.
My cousin had a Gremlin with 304 in it with a 3spd. stick on the floor and a 3.43 posi. It was a fun little car.
Yeah! who would thunk?
Sounds like “Australian Motor Corporation,” no?
Sounds like somebody was not paying close attention when their dog came into heat.
And I guess depending on where your from a dogs bark is roof or ruff. 🙂
Mutts are so lovable!
if it is a hemi in a 2013 jeep it is a 392 cubic inch hemi, Chrysler never built a 360 hemi and the 360 v8 went out of production years ago as it could not meet the fuel and emissions standards that the EPA has mandated.
my brother’s Unlimited has a 4.3 or so, enough to do the job.
Is it an inline six or v6 in the unlimited. The inline sixes that jeep put in a bunch of them were torque monster for a six cylinder, I thought they were 4.0 liters though but maybe they have up them to 4.3 liters I don’t know as I was a GM tech for 30 years.
Those 4.0 HO’s were torque monsters! I tried to repair the first header(I say that because that’s what it was as opposed to an exhaust manifold) after that we replaced them and the gaskets, and we got ’em all the time.They were twisting the block (under load) that the Stainless pipes would Spiderweb where they were welded together.What once took 2 hours to attempt to repair and paid $20 now took 1 hour and paid $500, to the shop of course but still 14% or $70 per hour as opposed to $2.80 for us Techs.
yea don’t it suck how the dealers charge so much labor but only give the techs a fraction of it. That is the main reason I got out of it back in 98 and went to work for Harley on bike cause they are still easy to work on and I was paid by the hour and not by flat rate. just can’t do that kind of work any more cause of my arthritis.
If they would have given me my $100 a day I’d probably still be training new techs for them. SMH. Ain’t no way I would now even if I could!
A hundred bucks still ain’t enough for a days work on these new cars. I was making 25 an hour at Harley with anything over 40 time and a half, Sundays double time and holidays double time and a half. the only way I would even consider going back to a car dealer if it was on salary of a minimum of 30 bucks an hour with overtime above forty.
That’s why there are no young people wanting to work in dealers because it does not pay good for the knowledge that is required to repair new cars. It ain’t your Daddy’s Oldsmobile any more.
We did a lot of work for dealerships but were aftermarket repair and modifications. My least favorite was when someone would bring their own parts in to have installed and expect to pay book time.Had a lot of fun. Saw and worked on some serious cars(some of those can get away from ya pretty quickJK 300ZXtwin turbo.Dodge stealth twinturbo.Whoputta 383 ina fiero).Now I’m happy to get the mower cranked on the first try.
I started out in a independent shop and we worked on everything also from a to z. got to fix some cool cars also, 66 427 vette with motor built by Holman/Moody-750 hp + beast for sure scared me big time after tune up on test drive, could not keep the tires under it even at 100+mph it would light them up at will. rewired a 1964 Austin Healey front to rear, did a valve job on 1938 Bentley straight six, many other muscle cars, 66 426 hemi Cuda, 1967 sunbeam tiger, built Datsun four cylinder motors like I said before in 620 trucks that would surprise v8 stop light to stop light. and way more than I can remember. I was getting 50% of labor back then when labor rate was 28 bucks an hour.
V-6 in the Jeep. Yeah, I was disappointed too
Definite bummer, it probably runs good but does not have the torque of the 4.0 liter sixes for sure.
He wanted a Rubicon but instead of paying the extra 10 to 15 grand, he got this one 10 below book.
I would have done the same for 10 grand under book.
That’s a deal.
Like the 460 ford puts in those U-Haul trucks. Too stout for their own good!
You had to carry your own gas pump with those gas guzzlers. I have rented a few that had the governors on them so you could only do 65 mph, but if you held the pedal to the metal long enough the governor would overheat and you could run 75 or 80, for about 10 miles till it cooled back down and would kick back in. I did that all the way from Cocoa FL to Pell City AL. Tried to brake the governor but it held up.
What got my attention is what you said about the trigger; 4lbs. is still kind of heavy for the second stage of the trigger. But then you said it feels like half of that because of the shape of the trigger and linkage and how it is placed.
BB I like looking at the geometry of triggers and how they function. I know you seen my comment before that I didn’t want to take my HW50s action out of the stock when I was checking for the plastic guide insert that is in the new model guns. I didn’t want to take the stock off because I had to resist taking the trigger apart and looking at it.
Can you show how and why this trigger works at half the effort. You got the curiosity rumbling in me. I would like to see the guns action out of the stock. Not only because of the trigger. But how the gun was made.
Can I show why this trigger feels like half the effort? No, I can’t think of a way to do that. It is a combination of the trigger’s shape and placement, relative to my trigger finger.
When Kevin was at my home several years ago I handed him my Wilson Combat CQB pistol, which is a 1911A1. I told him to try the trigger. He did and was impressed. He guessed that it broke at around a pound to a pound and a half. He didn’t believe me when I told him it was breaking at 3 pounds until I got the trigger-pull gauge and proved it.
What we think and how things feel are two different things. And when the trigger geometry is just right a heavy trigger can feel like a light one. But it is highly subjective.
Yep I understand that. I would just like to see what the action looks like out of the stock.
It is shooting right where I expected it to. This was built in the UK primarily for the UK market. Also, the velocity race had not cranked up yet.
Everybody was more concerned about accuracy. It doesn’t take much power to kill a bunny. You just have to hit him in the right spot. How can you win a pint at the pub if you cannot ring the bell?
Practice. Lots and lots of practice. 😉
I am on my way to a 2240/89 Hi-pac conversion as I just bought the 2240 from crosman so all I need now is the Hi-pac+2 extension to complete. Then I can have two for the price of one by doing like you said and using the spare parts to keep my 2289 shooting as a plinker. it is easier to make the power I want out of HPA than pumping.
Congratulations on your order! One of these day I’ll be able to join the crowd. You can bet I’ll let ya’ll know when it happens!
I had to rob peter to pay paul if ya now what I mean. But I just can’t pump guns up that easy any more so HPA is robbing me of my money. Still got to get cash for Hi-pac kit.
I was gonna get some mowers out front today but started building a spring compressor instead.I’m intrigued as to what happened inside the QB-36 to drop it’s velocity from the mid to upper 600’s to low 400’s It was shooting decent groups at 10m a week ago. Gotta wait for the skeeters to die down a little before I get back on that
FYI – a healthy QB36 spring has about 90 lbs of preload (spring rate approx. 32 lbs/in, almost 3″ of preload). Just disassembled and reassembled mine without one.
Thanks for the heads up! I just checked the screw I’ll be using(borrowed from a 3 jaw puller) has 3.5 ” of clear threads, I may rethink my plan but I’m trying to prepare for the worst.I’ll definitely have to have something holding it while I pull and reinstall the parts! Had to ride my bike across town with a backpack full of parts yesterday to get another hand in on it.
Have you noticed any little pebble like material around the breech area or can you hear anything rattling in the gun when you shake it. I would think if the spring broke that you would feel or hear some kind of noise when cocking or shaking gun. if you see any small pebble like material around breech area the seal may be disintegrating. I would think that if the fps went from 600+ to 400 that fast you would either hear something when cocking or see material around breech from seal .
Vince is right the spring is not under that much pressure but if you hand are like mine now you don’t have the strength to compress it without it flying apart and at best losing some pieces and at worst you get hurt again because you sure don’t need that. I would still use a compressor now because it is just easier to manipulate everything especially when going back together. You could probably get it apart OK but putting it back together would not be as easy without a compressor.
No pebbles, no rattling,cocking stroke hasn’t changed.
I guess that it will have to come apart to se what has happened, it is just odd that the power would drop so drastically with out any other symptoms to go along with the loss of power.
When you get it apart and find the problem let me know as I would be interested in what you find.
Still, at around 10 ft/lbs this is not really a hunting rifle at anything but short distance. However, at almost 5 lbs the trigger is too heavy for a target rifle. I’m not sure how to interpret the trigger “feeling” half that weight for determining trigger pull. But even if the trigger feels like 2 1/2 lbs. that’s still too heavy for a good target rifle. I guess the accuracy is going to tell us what the best use of the rifle will be. I was going to “predict” what it’s best use will be but have decided against that just yet. Right now I’m not sure what this gun wants to be. Next test should clear it up (I hope).
Although it’s no TX200, that’s what my Airmaster 77 puts out and it’s enough to put a 8 grain pellet downrange so flat that it’s still at point blank(or close enough) at 65 yards and with enough power left to be undeniable.I don’t consider that close range with an airgun.
The obvious question is if the pellet leaves the muzzle at 10 ft/lbs what is the ft/lbs at 50 yards or even 25yds. I believe it takes 6ft/lbs to kill a rabbit humanely.
RifleDNA did the math on Chairgun back wgen I made the shot which was only 2 weeks after my dismissal from the hospital. It’s in the Archives but it was over 5fpe, maybe over 6 on that Grackle and it went straight to the ground. Just enough for the job.
That was at 50yds? Ok then. No rabbits though.
Head shot will do it.
Every time! No heart/ lung shots on them I don’t like to chase ’em looking for blood trails when they go straight to their den anyway, same with squirrels but sometimes that’s all they’ll give ya.
65 yards, No rabbit but the dive that Grackle took woulda took out a rabbit if he’d been on the ground below him.
Actually power was 10.8fpe.
That was a great shot, and I had fun doing the calculations for it. I love the science of shooting. I would bet at 25-30 yards you’d have no problem with rabbit with that gun, especially since you can usually get well closer then that. I am very fond of how they freeze frame for you.
I wouldn’t hesitate taking it on a Bunny hunt. Especially with some of my heavier pellets!
If I recall correctly it was 6.5 fpe, but I didn’t wanna say that without knowing and I’m not having any luck finding it.
I agree. It should be good to go at 25-30 yards. That’s what I meant earlier about this gun (the BSA) being a short range hunter(30 yds. or less).
Across the pond they are limited to below 12 FPE. They hunt a lot of small game with this power. We are just spoiled over here.
Off-topic, but lets say you are holding a break-barrel spring rifle in your hands, and its manual does not detail how to adjust the supposedly two-stage trigger. From the factory the trigger is one medium-weight stage. Behind the trigger blade is one slotted adjustment screw, and ahead of the blade is a slotted adjustment screw with a lesser cross slot, making it a semi-Phillips head.
What is your educated guess for the functions of the rearward and forward screws?
Of course what I’d like to do is adjust it to two distinct stages. I really dislike one-stage triggers.
Thanks for your expertise,
Oh, I should perhaps point out that before the rifle is cocked, one can squeeze the trigger and feel two stages. I don’t know whether or not that is helpful when it comes to performing the adjustment.
This is just a guess, but the front screw is probably the first stage travel and the rear screw is probably the pull weight.
Thanks. The rifle in question is a Remington Express XP.
I’ll keep you posted regarding the trigger.
I’m reviewing a Ruger Airhawk, another Chinese-made airgun that is similar to your Remington and that is how its trigger adjusts. Only they do not mention the screw in the rear — just the one in front that adjusts the length of stage one.
So far I have come to believe that the XP stands for Xtra PLOUD! Held away from my body at my waist and shot into my bullet trap was excruciatingly loud. I then did the same (haven’t scoped it yet), duh, not into the trap but into a phone book, still in the basement. Not any quieter. As it was still dieseling and I was shooting CPLs, I figured, duh again, sonic crack. So I shot three H&N Barracuda Magnums into the phonebook. By the last of the three it had stopped smoking, and no way is it going supersonic with 16-plus grain pellets, but still that is one loud springer. It is about as loud as my Benjy 397 at 8 pumps, also in my basement, shot into a phone book.
It seems very nice, but I bought it thinking it was an awesome deal (and it IS), but also because I thought it would be quiet. If it ends up being accurate and I can get the trigger how I want it, I’ll hold onto it because it is gorgeous. But that big stogie on the end of the barrel isn’t so much a suppressor as it is an expressor. Hey, that’s it! XP stands for XPressor!
From looking at the pics, I’m wondering if the Express XP is the same mechanical platform as the Airhawk. The Airhawk is a near-clone of RWS 34 action… I suspect (but I’m not sure) that the Remington is based on a Chinese Norica copy.
That wouldn’t surprise me. It seems they’re following Crosman’s lead( or is it the other way around) of building many models on the same platform, thus saving money on retooling and keeping expense to a minimum while still reaching out to new consumers. Rekord trigger, huh?
Well… as I said, a “variant”. The housing that holds it is different, but the levers themselves look generally the same. But there could be relatively small differences that add up to something pretty significant, as I found on my old B20:
Thank You for sharing this link,I was gonna ask for it and here’s part one so everyone doesn’t have to type it in like I did./blog/2009/01/for-the-rekord-part-1/ Very informative!
(The link for “Part 1” is near the beginning of the post – you didn’t have to type it!)
Once again I’m Guilty of missing text. They told me this would happen.
Found an exploded diagram of the Express XP…. looks like it has a variant of the Rekord.
I have the Ruger Explorer. It’s a great youth airgun. Very accurate.
Keep us posted on this gun, It’s about the same price as a lot of break barrel guns marketed for pest control and small gaming. Be sure to let us know how it shoots when you get the scope on it and also after it’s broken in.
Thanks for answering Tom !
The 1077 had presented itself as a candidate.
Nearly elbowed it way to the front even with PA selling for $35 less than Walmart !
What can be had for $65 nowadays ? Usually only a hard time from “Customer no Service” dept.
Searching revealed a cap mod allowing bulk fill but no mention of larger cans.
Is this big bottle a shelf item or boutique maker ?
Crosman used to make the 1077 with an adapter for 88-gram tanks, but they stopped. Talk to these guys:
Wasn’t that configuration also the one with a bonus palm rest? (LOL)
Thanks Tom !
Mac made mention of corrosion in bulk fill co2 tanks.
How prevalent is this problem?
How does metallurgy influence ? Specifically I’m referring to brass vs ?
I’ve about googled myself silly covering model numbers….
I haven’t encountered any problems, but Tim sees many more thanks than I do.
Tim sees things at the worst they could possibly get. That’s what some people send him, When I asked if the original pump cup for my Benjamin 3120 could’ve been red or maybe someone tried to seal the gun with RTV He went on a rant about some of the stuff he sees on a daily basis. He seems to be a really good guy that’s probably way overworked but could fix anything airgun related or build new ones. Guess that’s why he gets the big bucks.
I could see if someone left a mild steel tank empty and exposed to humidity, but not while charged with Co2.
Thought this was an automotive blog for a moment!
In .177 I’ve heard that many of the later airsporters like wasp and superdomes. Some like superpoints but it doesn’t sound like B.B.’s will do well with them. Guess we’ll see.
That is a relief to hear.
Trying to say only nice things is very hard for me. Like riding a unicycle drunk and blindfolded.
Since many of my guests are not shooting types they haven’t been exposed to the reality of maintaining ammunition stockpiles and propellant might as well be quantum physics.
The experience of watching things die after being shot is also somewhere far outside their conciousness.
So single shot and low power have been primary objectives.
When I breached this topic on the yellow the suggestion was a Daisy 499.
A fine choice to be sure.
However, the ricochet potential of steel bbs is unacceptable.
What is your favorite low power single shot pellet rifle ?
If you were at a carnival and there was a game involving guns on tethers, what sort would they be ?
What’s that auto modeled off the Thompson smg which fires lead shot?
Which other guns fire small caliber lead shot ?
Thanks in advance ! (hey that locks you into answering right ?)
Haenel 310, VZ 35, VZ 47, Anschutz 275.
My vote is for the Air Venturi Bronco. Light-cocking, crisp-triggered, quiet, low powered, well made, single shot, adult-sized, retro-looking, and affordable.
As long as today is an underlever day, and as long as B.B. has opened the door on old, obscure delights (VZ 35 and 47), another small lead shot smoothbore is the Pioneer BB76. It’s no 499 for accuracy, and it’s a repeater based on the Daisy Model 25, but it is a lot of fun to shoot.
B.B. wrote about it right here:
The SMG fires .22 pellets fed from a preloaded belt, then there are the Feltman’s which came in many calibers but which fire lead round balls preloaded in brass tubes then dumped into the mag in the buttstock.I know from experience the Feltman’s were a blast, Not so sure about the SMG, having to load that belt with pellets ranging in price from about 2 cents apiece to who knows? Also where the SMG is powered by Co2 the feltman’ can run on 120psi shop air… There are others out there but most are one off’s or Super expensive and outta the realm of affordable shooting…Feltman for me!
john in fl,
I had a Lot of friends that used to layover in Fl for Winter Quarters until it warmed up enough to hit the road again. are you building a game?
As a matter of fact, my Gamo Stutzen is actually a flip-up breech, not a rotary one. But, thinking about it, it is not very fair or wise to compare the Gamo to the BSA, even if one company acquired the other, because the two products are essentially different from each other. They are only externally similar.
The good thing is that this BSA Stutzen is surprising you in a positive way. I hope the targets will finally put any bad impressions of the past where they belong… in the past.
I only saw this carnival game once during my 5 year stint so I guess it was well on it’s way out by then. The guns were chambered in .22 short and the target a .25 cal red dot ,the object was to completely eliminate any trace of red ( like the machine guns with the star). It was parked right next to my dart game with the machine guns on the other side.Talk about loud, I had to be! I also ran a crossbow shoot which really showed who the real marksmen(and women) were.Anyone else ever see this .22 gallery gun joint? Any other good shooting games?
I remember shooting at a carnival back in the 1970’s. They had old Winchester pumps in .22 short that would not shoot in the same place twice. I’m sure they helped the owner’s bottom line!
Seems like they were repeaters because it took 3 shots to do it,They cleaned and oiled their guns once a day, just before opening like we did with the Feltman’s. Serving the masses is a lotta work!
I’m still really liking this gun. Power is about where I expected and you have yet to mention any harshness other than a slightly stiff trigger that’ non- adjustable. It does seem to be a little finicky about pellets. Have you experimented with over-flaring the skirts on some of your favorites yet? It should only take about the same amount of time as seating them. If you do I hope you don’t get any stuck, still I think the possible benefits would outweigh the potential risk.
Im surprised no one mentioned the peculiar thing about those flying scot pellets, a pure lead 3 contact pellet labeled “high velocity” ! You know those are a decade or older.
I was thinking the same thing. but you can tell by the graphics they’re probably older than that. I’d guess 60’s or 70’s.
Ooo Feltman wowsa !
Never imagined that price.
I wouldn’t make a very good carny refusing to let people hold the $900 Feltman. (just a random auction listing)
Most of guns mentioned were covered in your blog thank you very much !
This line of questions is going nowhere and for good reason.
I have it all wrong and stuck in 1985 when paintball and airsoft didn’t exist.
Airsoft is where I need to look for safer guns.
Real looking stuff teenage kids are dumping on CL.
When someone drops it ? Meh…
Stutzen trigger pull sounds OK if the second stage is crisp enough but less lbs sounds lots sweeter. Right after you run into it.
Mannlicher stocks ALWAYS get some attention but avoid muzzle heavy guns !
Some weight in the buttstock can fix most, just a couple ounces and people comment on “How light!” instead of making bowling ball jokes.
Time to go before I forget the topic again.
Yeah,those Feltman’s command a price! It’s no wonder, everybody that shot ’em wanted to know where to get one!
Aah, the good ol’ days!
With fuel and ammo prices what they are now it’s probably $5 for that 100 shots.And justifiably so!
I hope they send that Ute over for it’s rebadging as the new El Camino! I had high hopes for the SSR and the timing of the end of the Camaro. I have yet to understand why Chevy didn’t put all those Camaro engines in the SSR instead of that anemic 5.3 to move 4700 pounds of nostalgia, I see now they have bumped it up to 6.0 with 390 hp, too late. I’ve been keeping an eye on the Ute for some time now as it seems to be more of a working man’s truck than the SSR ever could’ve been with it’s price tag.
Then again I wanna Brat!
Just noticed PA now offers a 20 for $20 including scope mounting, zeroing at 10 meters and option of shipping cases. That adds too much expense for a cheapwad like me but a lotta people don’t care about price. These people just want a nice gun that does what it’s supposed to do and the less work involved in achieving this goal the better. This is for you, By the time all is done and over you know your gun is gonna be operable and you’ll have a nice case for it’s transport(and another gun!) for your $60 investment.I think it’s a mutually beneficial move, Kudos PA!
BB!, you’re letting the cat out of the bag with this Airsporter, damn fine rifles, always were….incidentally, you keep returning to the Stutzen you first shot, a Gamo rifle, while it’s true that the Airsporter was made in a Stutzen stock while under Gamo control, and indeed incorperated a rotary breech (in two designs, RB1 and RB2) the rifle was never badged Gamo and remained a full BSA by design.
You note our dismay at BSA being owned by Gamo, well, this is true, and when you can pick the product up see a slow erosion of quality year on year, it gets you down, but then….the UK allowed Rolls Royce to go to German ownership too (though still made here)……the Gamo BSA’s aren’t bad rifles, but they aren’t the fine sporting pieces they were.
The BSA PCP’s incidentally are still made by people who drink beer and are a touch kinder to bulls 🙂
Believe me — I understand. I miss them, too. Them and Webley.
If anyone still cares to know, I believe American Motors (AMC) was formed in 1954 in a merger between Nash and Hudson.
Nash was made in Kenosha, WI. Hudson was based in Detroit.
AMC products were initially named Rambler. This was a Nash name, and was one of the oldest car brands in the US.
My grandfather had a 1958 Rambler. It was a very good car and lasted him until 1965 when it was replaced by a new Dodge. He rode a train to Kenosha and picked his new Rambler at the plant. I think it was powered by a flathead 6.
Those roots run deep,Thanks for sharing.