Walther’s new LGU: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Walther LGU right
Walther’s LGU underlever is a beautiful new spring rifle.

This report covers:

• Scope
• Target 1 — Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Target 2 — Baracuda Match 5.53mm pellets
• Target 3 — Air Arms Falcon pellets
• Target 4 — H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm pellets
• Shooting behavior
• Other observations

Let’s see how accurate the new Walther LGU underlever rifle is. This is a report that’s as serious as they get; because if this rifle proves to be accurate, the LGU will be a clear choice for those thinking about a TX200 Mark III. And, although I personally do not have good experience with them, there are just as many shooters who like the HW 97 just as much. Today we’l; see if the LGU fits into this top niche of spring guns.

Scope
The LGU has 11mm dovetails cut directly into the spring tube and 3 holes for a vertical scope stop pin. So, I selected a 2-piece mount for that type of mounting system.

Walther LGU scope base
Rifle has 11mm dovetail grooves and 3 vertical scope stop holes.

I held several scopes up to the rifle and noticed that the scope has to be somewhat short to not cover the loading port. I scoped the rifle with an obsolete CenterPoint scope that was made by Leapers several years ago. It’s a 3-9X40 AO that’s exactly 13 inches long. After positioning it for my eye, this scope stops 1-3/4 inches behind the loading port, so there’s plenty of room to load. If higher mounts were used, the scope could even extend over the port a little.

Walther LGU scope
A 13-inch scope leaves plenty of room for the loading port.

I shimmed the rear of the scope, thinking that most spring guns have some barrel droop, but in this case, it wasn’t necessary. I had to adjust the scope down during sight-in — instead of the usual up. So, no shim was required, though the one I used doesn’t present a problem.

All shooting today was from 25 yards. I decided to rest the rifle directly on the sandbag, as I would a TX200, and it worked perfectly. What you’re about to see is the best I can do with these pellets in the Walther LGU.

Target 1 — Crosman Premier lite pelletss
The first target I shot was with 7.9-grain Crosman Premier lites. This premium pellet is sometimes the best in a spring gun. This time it was very good. Each pellet went into the hole made by the pellet before it. At the end of 10 shots I had a group that measured 0.259 inches between centers. This target is a screamer!

Walther LGU Premier target 25 yards
The Walther LGU put 10 Premier lites into 0.259 inches at 25 yards. A good start.

Target 2 — Baracuda Match 5.53mm pellets
Next up were H&N Baracuda Match pellets. I’d tested the rifle with 4.50mm head pellets in the velocity test, but I decided to shoot the 4.53mm head for accuracy. Ten pellets went into a group that measured 0.55 inches between centers. With most spring rifles, I would be quite pleased with a group like that; but for the LGU, this is the largest group of the day! What does that tell you about its accuracy?

Notice, too, that the Baracudas dropped about one inch on the paper from where the Premier lites were hitting. I did not adjust the scope during the entire test. This is just where this pellets wanted to go.

Walther LGU Baracuda 453 target 25 yards
Ten 4.53mm Baracuda Match pellets went into into 0.55 inches at 25 yards. For any other spring rifle, this would be great! But for the LGU, it was the biggest of the day.

 

Target 3 — Air Arms Falcons pellets
Next up were the Falcon from Air Arms. This is a pellet with a 4.52mm head that has done extremely well recently in a lot of airgun tests. Ten Falcons went into 0.371 inches at 25 yards. On any other test, this would be a stunning group, but it didn’t stand up in the LGU.

Walther LGU Falcon target 25 yards
Ten 4.52mm Air Arms Falcon pellets went into into 0.371 inches at 25 yards. This is a great group — except not for the LGU that still has more to give!

I normally would have ended the test at this point, but a nagging thought provoked me into trying one more pellet. There will always be another pellet I haven’t tested, so this is open-ended. I’m not trying to find out the limits of this air rifle — I’m just trying to show how well it does in general. But, when a solid winner like this underlever comes along, I have to push the limits a bit.

Target 4 — H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm pellets
So, I grabbed the tin of H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads and gave them a try. And I’m glad I did, for they turned in the best 10-shot group of the day. Ten went into 0.217 inches at 25 yards! Now, that’s really a screamer!

Walther LGU Baracuda 450  target 25 yards
Ten 4.50mm Baraduda Match pellets went into into 0.217 inches at 25 yards. This is a phenomenal group — the best of the day!

Shooting behavior
Shooting with the rifle resting directly on a sandbag gives me lots of opportunity to experience the feel of each shot. For example, I could feel one tiny bit of creep in stage 2 of the trigger each time, and then I knew the rifle was set to fire. And when it did fire, I noted that the rifle does buzz a bit. In most rifles this would be distracting; but when a rifle is as incredibly accurate as this LGU, it really doesn’t matter. I could compete in field target with this rifle, right out of the box!

Other observations
I didn’t notice until I mounted the scope, but the air transfer port is located in the center of the compression chamber. This is a big deal if you want maximum efficiency. It probably means that a tuner could install a lighter mainspring and reduce the cocking effort by 10 lbs. and still deliver 12+ foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

I also noted the cocking stroke is very smooth — just like the TX200. There’s no hesitation or increase in effort at any point in the stroke. If you are new to airguns this might not make any sense, but an experienced shooter will feel a sense of quality. After awhile, you forget everything — except that you’ll hit whatever you shoot at.

I’m definitely taking the LGU to the outdoor 50-yard range. I’ll even try some pellets I didn’t try today. Stay tuned!

142 thoughts on “Walther’s new LGU: Part 3

  1. Pellet head sizes relative to skirt and caliber seem to be very complex factor. I don’t see a common thread as yet that can tell me which head sizes will do better than the other. It always boils down to whatever pellet produces the best accuracy that is the one. Maybe in the end pellet head sizes will not matter to the hundredth of a millimeter but only to the tenth and what will matter more will be the ductility of the lead due to its purity or hardness due to the alloy. If this is the case the next step would be to test the hardness of each pellet before firing.


    • Siraniko,

      This test should illustrate clearly to you that head size is an important factor to consider if your goal is to achieve the utmost accuracy from your air rifle.

      I used to have a Gamo CFX that when I used H&N Field Target Trophy in 4.51mm heads would produce 10 shot groups of around .75″ at 25 yards, but when I used the same pellet with 4.52mm heads, the group size would drop to about .25″.

      I for one am thoroughly convinced that when searching for “the pellet” for a particular air rifle or pistol, head size must be given serious consideration.


    • RidgeRunner,
      Yes it does indicate that head size is important. Your test proved that we always must search from all pellets available to us what will work best for our particular air gun. So not only is it by brand but also by head size. But as you had pointed out earlier the deformability of the alloy used and the relative thickness of the skirt will also influence accuracy.


  2. BB
    I’m so glad your .177 cal. Model did that good.

    Everything you keep saying about the .177 model your testing is dead on to the performance my .22 cal. LGU is doing.

    Its like a tuned gun right out of the box that you sent away to a famous and payed good money to tune it for you.

    All I keep hearing myself say when I pick mine up to shoot is what a excellent springer you are you LGU.


    • GF1,

      About that JSB sampler, my initial impression is disappointment.

      In the past whenever I have opened a tin of pellets that were made by JSB, I have been impressed with the quality appearance. I have never bothered to cull JSB pellets in the past with the exception of watching for bent skirts as I was shooting.

      These pellets on the other hand appear to be the culls. I immediately noticed wings on some of the pellets and small feathers around the edge of some of the skirts. These jumped out at me as I am not used to seeing them with JSB.

      I have not had the opportunity to shoot them as of yet. Hopefully they will change my mind this weekend.


      • R.R.

        I ordered a JSB sampler tin in .22 cal for my NP Trail and was also disappointed none of them shoot well in Benji. I thought it was the gun but after the outstanding performance of the JSB .177 cal pellets in my HW50S and 460 Magnum and what you said above maybe they deserve a second look in .22 cal. The Benji has turned into a different gun since the trigger mod and is shooting sub 1/2″ groups with the H&N pellets I feed it. Worth considering when I place my next pellet order with Pyramyd.

        David


      • RidgeRunner,

        I bought the JSB sampler also, in .22 cal. Although I didn’t notice any defects I will say that except for the Jumbo Heavies I did not get good results. This was when I was looking for the best pellet for my PRod. I did try them in other guns though.

        Still, most of the time JSB’s are my pellet of choice (based on results). I have no idea why the other 3 pellet choices did not perform at all.

        G&G


      • RR
        You know that’s kind of weird. You would think they would put their best pellets in a sampler pack because their trying to make future sales on the product.

        I have probably shot I bet 20 tins of 500 (maybe more) of the 10.34 JSB’s and never in the whole time have I got a wing or the feathered or bent skirts. I have picked them up and dropped them of course and bent the skirt.

        From what your saying I don’t think I could base a decision of of the pellets you received. I would be ordering a tin of 500 or I do believe they come in a tin of 250 also.

        I for sure would sort the bad ones out of your sample pack and not shoot them or save them till after you try the ones you determine good and see their results. Then try the ones you determined bad and see if they do shoot good also. Wouldn’t that be a surprise.

        But what your explaining with the sample pack is not what I’m use to seeing with the JSB pellets. I’m not trying to sell you or anybody on them but I know how they have worked for me through out time.

        And I tell you what I will send you a tin of 500 that I got if you want to try them. Seriously let me know.


        • I was surprised also. Most of them appear to be just fine, but I am so used to a quick visual inspection of every pellet as I shoot that my eye has been trained to pick up those abnormalities. I usually only see those type things on the cheapo pellets.

          Most of them do not have wings or feathers, but for some reason they do not look like the quality pellets from JSB that I am accustomed to. Like I said, I will give them a try and see how they do.


    • GF1,

      What velocities are you measuring from your .22 LGU?

      I remember discussions about a disparity in power between the .22 and .177 LGU, but I don’t recall reading chronograph reports on the .22 LGU.

      Glad you like your rifle.

      RB


      • RB
        Matter of fact I did post the chroney results on one of the days blogs. But I actually chroneyed the gun early because it was grouping so good and there was very minimal detonation in only the first few shots. I usually wait till I know the guns pretty well broken in to chrony it.

        And I was surprised that it chroneyed out to be pretty dead on to what Walther claimed. They said the gun is a 12 fpe gun at 593 fps. I do have them wrote down and I will just give you the high and the low and the fps spread.

        Low was 593 fps the high was 600 fps and the spread was 7 fps and that was a 10 shot string. That was with JSB 15.89 grn. pellets. the average was some where around 596 fps which works out to like 12.5 fpe.

        So Walther was pretty dead on with the .22 cal. model. When I was looking at the .22’s description I knew the gun was going to be a good shooter when I did the math with the fpe and velocity they gave and it worked out to be that heavier almost 16 grn.pellet. I still believe if you get a heavy pellet shooting at the right velocity that they retain their speed longer which should help accuracy.



      • Feinwerk
        Thanks on the TX and the LGU.

        And ain’t them TX’s easy to work on. But as far as the LGU goes I’m not touching it. It really is shooting that good. Its one of those guns when you shoot it you know its right. I think its one of those guns you could hurt the performance if you try to tune it. Walther got it right.

        But I guess it could be made a little smoother and I’m talking recoil but it just trys to bump the muzzle of the gun strait up not any forward or backward movement at all. And the bump is very,very minimal. It just takes a slight grip with your trigger hand and its on the money every shot.

        No touch for me on this LGU its on the money.



  3. B.B. thank you for writing this blog. Lurking awhile.

    You and others have said that a springer needs around 10″ of barrel to get all the energy it will ever have
    .. So why does a 48, 52, and 54 have 18″ barrels? Is it just for sight radius? Has anyone chopped airgun barrels and kept accuracy? Maybe without a choke pellet head size becomes more critical?

    My 392 is picky on head sizes, maybe because of the lack of choke.

    Anyways, thank you for your time.


    • I chop all my springers, most to about 14″, 16.25″ was the most Ive left and that is the airmag just now because it needs the cocking, and its so big that the breech is set way back so the barrel length looks proportional. I push a pellet or two and find a tight spot around where I want the length, if it has one great if not its fine, I’ve only ever seen increased accuracy, the shorter barrel decreases lock time, increases velocity and tightens vibrations with notable reductions in recoil. Chamber tunes might help that last part…


    • Sam,

      Welcome to the blog.

      I don’t know why some spring guns have longer barrels, other than for the sight separation you mentioned. They certainly don’t need them.

      Many have cut their barrels shorter, thinking to get more velocity. What they got was stiffer cocking and less accuracy. It’s always best to leave a barrel in the original state if you can. I did have to crown my BSA Meteor barrel to get accuracy, but that was a first for me.

      B.B.



        • Shortening the barrels has always improved shot cycle in my experience, and I did test one gun in wetpack before and after cutting and had an increase in penetration with all pellets. Meticulously crowning after I cut may be the increase in accuracy, but there are so many benefits besides as I mentioned. The airmag did not increase cocking weight by cutting because my hand already had to grab further down, the np did increase by maybe 5 lbs, but wasn’t hard to start. I think if you can handle the cocking increase you may get, it is worth every inch you can pull within reason, just make sure the recrown is good. What I do is clamp a guide, a large cable clamp from an electrical box I scraped, then run the hacksaw right up against it. A clamp on both sides can help, but one works fine. I then recess the crown with a 3/8th drill bit down in about a 1/4th inch. Then polish the crown with a fine scrub pad(000 steel wool works) with a conical sanding stone bit to push it in centered. Replacing front sights usually just need a flat filed on the top which you want to match with the original and be sure to square with top of the barrel. That’s about it.



          • RDNA or B.B.,

            Are gas springs generally more quiet?

            Had a 2200 as a teen, now I have a 392 with peep, as I found crosman doesn’t make 2200 anymore. So am a relative airgun newb . Have shot my dads gamo 1000 something or other- it was a tack driver until I screwed it up by not understanding how to maintain a springer- that said, I enjoy shooting my 392 more.

            Thanks.


  4. Those are some impressive groups BB. I’m still trying to decide between this or the TX200. I put around 12,000 pellets through my Mike Mellic tuned XS28 last year and now I need more accuracy. Funny how we have to have the power before we see the light! The XS28 is very good properly tuned but I feel like I’ve exhausted its accuracy potential and now I’m ready to lay down some real money, just want to make sure I lay it down on the right one…


    • Caleb,

      GunFun1 just recently bought a TX200 MKIII and a Walther LGU. After shooting his LGU, he almost sent the TX back.

      Between GF1 and BB, I think I have pretty much decided which air rifle will be my next one.



      • B.B.

        The advertised velocity sure is a big come on for the newbe. My neighbor just bought a Chinese air rifle from a big national sporting goods store. He can’t believe my HW50S could be four times as expensive as his rifle and only shoot @ 800 fps, his gun must better it shoots 1450 fps.

        David


      • I will say hate is a strong word but I Hate that silly velocity game.

        I really wish that they would get off of that advertising kick. I can say that I have got my best accuracy from pellet guns with a heavier pellet and a lower velocity.

        Think about how a artillery shell in a tank shoots. I bet somebody here knows how them rounds can be dropped one on top of the other. 🙂


        • GF1,

          First of all, tanks DO NOT shoot artillery shells!

          Tank rounds travel a mile per second, or nearly so. They don’t appear to drop much for more than 1,200 yards!

          Artillery rounds travel slow, in comparison, on an extremely high trajectory.

          A tank is a direct-fire weapon system. Artillery is indirect-fire. Two completely different concepts.

          That said, I did understand what you meant, and you are right. A .45 caliber 500-grain bullt may exit the muzzle at 1,300 f.p.s., but it will still kill a bison 800 yards away. It may have been over 100 feet above that bison as it traveled downrange.

          B.B.


    • Caleb,
      Fortunately I was never bitten by the velocity bug. As a matter of fact now when I am looking at a rifle one of the first things I check is to verify that it does not shoot over 1,000 FPS. In fact, I prefer if it doesn’t shoot over 900 FPS.

      A couple of times I have gotten a .22 cal. instead of .177 simply to get the lower velocity.

      G&G


      • G&G
        I’m with you on that. I just did a little experimenting with my .177 Marauder about a week or so ago.

        I shoot my favorite JSB 10.34 grn. pellet out of that gun. Its always been my gun that is on the money. It averages about a .600” center to center group at 50 yards. It was shooting about 930 fps.

        I know this ain’t much of a improvement but now the gun is at 820 fps and my groups shrunk to .550 (outside diameter to outside diameter) not center to center. Its probably getting a bit over .400” center to center groups. It just seems those JSB 10.34’s like the lower velocity for some reason and that’s probably why I had such good luck with them in my Crosman 1720T with the 1399 stock on it. It shot at a lower velocity.


  5. B.B.,

    Please remember that you agreed to try the JSB 8.44 gr pellets for me. I had hoped to see them this time around but I’ll just weight for 50 yds.

    Well, so far you have two pellets that one might call the “Magic” pellet for this gun. The Premier Lites and the H&N Barracuda Match with the 4.5mm head. But if at all possible try the JSB’s at both distances. I think you’ll end up with 3 “best” pellets. Thanks.

    G&G


  6. Lookn’ great Tom. Was very excited to hear about this rifle. Rick just got his to test also so we will have to see how he dose with this one. Been loving your blog for quite as a late 70’s early 80’s Dr. Beeman fanboy (actually got to meet him once at the San Rafael location when I lived in the Bay Area) my first love was and still is my 1981 25mm compression tube Hw77. Fast forward 30 some years and I decide to get back into shooting after my divorce as my ex did not like gun back then. Avid shooter and 2nd Amendment back now after letter shoot my fancy new TX200 MkIII I got from Pyramyd a couple of years ago. Love those underlevers! My old Beeman Hw77 is retired now but in great shape only in need of only seals and a new mainspring.

    Looking forward to more about this new Walther BB. If it wasn’t for Rick being a bad influence and getting me into my first PCP this Christmas I think I might have added this LGU to my collection. In fact after the newness of “dark side” wares off I may get one indeed. Thank you again for the updated review Tom!

    -Pezz


    • Wow, that doubled up. The admins can delete the first one if they like.

      -Pezz

      P.S. Love that Bronco Tom. Had to get one for the 10 year old to learn on, now 12 and loves it.



      • Thank you sir and I will keep up on here better. I just tend to read without commenting. Still may be the only “customer” review on PA’s site for the Bronco that posted chrony numbers. Wow, that little guy is consistent. Gene Salvino explained how you developed this one and with the low power spring it is a 2 fps standard deviation rifle all day long, perfect youth gun. My review is still under “Pezz” or “Pezzer”, pictures included.

        Yeah, good ole Rick Eutsler has been an awesome friend and partner in arms for me. We will have to look out for his video review of the LGU now that is evaluation rifle is sitting in his shop. Hope to meet up with you sometime Tom at either one of the east coast fun shoots or air gun shows near by me (east TN). Still trying to talk Rick into getting “over” the AoA thing and us both showing up to Extreme Benchrest next year with the new .30 cal Hatsan PCPs in tow just to stir up the rich boys, lol. I do understand, those guys are nice but I have had real bad luck personally with their sales team on the phone. This is why I am a Pyramyd Air guy for life now. In fact if I were to look at a Daystate or FX I would give my business to Precision Airgun Supply up in Michigan just because those guys seem a bit out of touch with true customer service and Precision has an awesome reputation.

        BTW you are up early BB, hehe. Looking forward to part 4, or is there a part 4 in the works?

        -Pezz

        (should have proof read my first post a bit better, that one sentence is missing at least one word, lol)


  7. I love seeing new names! Welcome guys! The wealth of experience and knowledge grows! BB, glad you mentioned the center oriented transfer port, how much benefit is there? 10% ? More? The A.mag is putting out serious boomstick through a center port, and wondered what kind of difference it really makes. I figured the canted port would brake the pressure before encountering the pellet, build it up, then the centered outflow would make full use of it. It is surprising me with its accuracy, and is probably putting out a couple hairs more then the W.Talon Magnum, which, like I had mentioned, was angry mating alligators.


    • RifledDNA I’m not sure an exact study has been done and published as the manufacturers like to keep their trade secrets quiet. But after Air Arms did that with their Hw77 “copy” on the TX200 and Pro Sport I would guess they at least feel the centerline transfer port aids in efficiency enough to include theirs. Now that Walther is also this may be a trend except for Weihrauch’s stuff. Either way my guess that improvement at these energy levels is most likely under 5% overall. Just a guess since I have not heard of a large difference between the offset Hw design vs the centerline port on the Air Arms and now Walther.

      If anyone has that data it would be BB here…

      -Pezz



        • Agreed BB…

          Still interesting to note that Weihrauch still has the offset transfer port in the Hw77/97k series. One day I will have to get the ole Beeman serviced by one of the techs (David Slade is here in TN) I will see if I can test both the TX and the Hw77 and see what I can find out, if anything. Only so much one can do with a good chronograph, data sheets and Newton’s formulas.

          Getting a bit gitty now that my .25 cal PCP is on order…dark side time! 🙂

          -Pezz



            • Getting a smokn’ deal on a referb Hatsan AT44-QE-Long. These are causing a bit of a new stir with the low price point and competitive accuracy. So yeah I am jumping straight from a .177 cal springer to a .25 cal PCP, I’m excited. Now that they are working on some big boar offerings in 357/9mm and more interesting for myself .30 cal I am really starting to look harder into this Turkish company. Wish it was walnut though, maybe I will get an aftermarket stock made one day. I’ll update and try to get some video edited and uploaded if I can get Rick to help me. I know nothing about video editing.

              -Pezz


              • Pezz
                That’s funny you say that.

                I had a .177 cal. QE model and Buldawg on the blog here has a .22 cal. standard version.

                They are some higher horsepower shooters for sure. And I actually made a single shot tray for his gun and my gun out of derlin.

                I found that the factory rotary clips were causing the pellets to drag when the probe was loading the pellet through the clip into the barrel and was causing accuracy problems.

                With the single shot tray I made the pellet loaded very smooth and the group size at 50 yards got basically half the size smaller.

                With the clip the groups looked like a shot gun pattern. With the single shot tray the pellets were touching. Oh and that was all bench rest shooting.

                I posted picturesof the tray when BB did the review about the QE model he reviewed.

                I’m at work right now and I will post pictures of the tray later if you want to see them.


                • That sounds awesome and I am indeed very interested as most of my shooting (except pest control for my farm buddies) is benchrest longer range stuff. Heck I dont even like shooting my TX200 inside 50 yards any more. I still know my close range hit locations for game at that range but for paper and cans I prefer 50 to 75 yards is more challenging and fun for me.

                  Should be taking delivery sometime next week or so after Rick gets her in his shop and throws his love on it. Should have some early choney numbers in two weeks or so. May want one of those fancy single loading trays too. 🙂

                  -Pezz


                  • Pezz
                    I’m like that to. Some times I stretch my guns out sometimes target shoot. Then I like setting up little mini field target courses in my back yard.

                    Aw heck what am I saying if its about air gun shooting I like it. 🙂

                    And when you get your gun I would like to hear about it. I’m always interested in what people think about their guns.

                    And here is the pictures of the single shot trays. If you want one I will have to see if Buldawg can give me the the dimensions. I don’t have mine anymore. Dave of RAI that makes those AR stock adapters for the Crosman pistols got my gun and adapter.

                    There maybe a few dimensions I would have to change for the .25 cal. tray. I made Buldawgs .22 tray first then made my .177 tray of of his and they both worked out fine. I’m betting the only thing I need to change is the diameter for were the pellet sets.

                    But here’s the tray. And I don’t make these and sell them. I will make one on the Bridgeport I have access to at work if you want one. But I will warn you it may take me a while to get it to you. I have to make it in between time at work and there is a few other things on the list I’m doing. But here it is.

                    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/IMG_20140820_200512695_HDR_zps6023b3e0.jpg

                    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/IMG_20140820_195127298_zps873d4da2.jpg

                    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/IMG_20140820_194558630_zps37a632c2.jpg


                    • Wow, VERY nice Gun!…looks like painted wood? Either way that looks like it would work great and yes keep me posted and no hurry sir. I’m still waiting for the first pics and shots through next week or weekend depending on how fast FedEx gets here with her. But let me know how much you would like for one and I can PayPal you some funds to cover your time and shipping. Thank you!

                      -Pezz


                  • Pezz
                    I made out o a piece of black derlin. Its a type of plastic that is pretty durable and machine.

                    I’m a machinist and I made it the old fashioned way on Bridgeport vertical milling machine.

                    But we need to wait till you get your gun and I will ask you for a few measurements at that time.

                    And you don’t have to pay me anything. But it may take me a bit to get it done. I have to do it at work on my free time. So just let me know when you get the gun and we will go from there.


                    • And the first paragraph suppose to say I made it out of a piece of black derlin. Its a type of plastic that is pretty durable and is easy to machine.


                    • Ahh, yes I think you did say that at the start of this. Just the texture reminded me of wood grain when It was just machine marks. Yes, very familiar with derlin. Sounds awesome and let me know what info you need, etc…

                      -Pezz


    • I doubt its as high as 10%. Its more an issue of scavenging air flow and there are a few ways to go about it. Each method can offer slight improvements but the advantages aren’t in leaps and bounds. A combination of incremental improvements may get near 10% though. Its what tuners do.


  8. BB,

    Now that is an interesting air rifle! I am most anxious to see what it will do at 50 yards!

    Like I just told Caleb, between you and GF1, I am pretty sure what will be my next air rifle.



  9. B.B.

    I. WANT. THIS. RIFLE. What else there’s to say? Perhaps, less plastic, but that’s ok with straight hands and some time.
    Only one question – after this test, can you tell some more words on firing behavior – kick/jump/softness/torque, any signs of deseling etc.?

    Jumping on my seat, waiting for 50 m tests.

    duskwight


    • Duskwight,

      The LGU seems to recoil straight back. And the movement is very short. It’s a TX by another name. On;y the slight buzzing and a trigger than is not as adjustable sets them apart.

      No hint of detonation. Of course all spring guns of this power level diesel with every shot, but you don’t hear it or smell it.

      50 meters coming soon, I hope!

      B.B.


    • duskwight
      My .22 cal. LGU with the heavier pellet makes no noisees and the gun bumps the nose up just a little bit.

      And I did manage to get my LGU to adjust to pretty much the same feel of the TX. By no means is the LGU trigger bad and it chas a very light pull wait. Its a trigger that is easy to shoot with. You dont have to pay attention to it and think about what its going to do it does what you want it to do.

      The LGU is made with fine craftsmanship like the TX. Both very good quality guns and very accurate.


  10. BB,

    If we take a barrel of an avanti champion 499 and lube it to sort of create a full lenth barrel chocking, what i mean to say is sort of create a layer of some sort of goo so that the bullet will i mean bb will fit more perfectly i mean the bullet will have a more snug fit leading to greater accuracy but possibly lower velocity what i mean to say is that their will be more contact between the bb and the barrel leading to greater accuracy i think the perfect bore of of the 499 combined with its super smooth bb(precision ground shot) is its secret and what i prupose will(perhaps just a hint) increase its accuracy further what i suggest is a mixture of wax ,pellgun oil and jb bore cleaning compound to make a lining of about ase thin ase possible othervise the bb will not role down it self please tell if my vision(if i may call it so)is somthing or tell me i am stupid



    • Utkarshgupta,

      I answered you back on the other page.

      When you don’t get an answer it usually means I am away from my keyboard. There is no need to ask again elsewhere. I see all the comments and will answer you when I get to it.

      B.B.


    • I do not think your idea will work because a proper fitting BB already takes time to roll down the barrel because it is so snug that air has a hard time passing around it. If you put a liquid no matter how thin you may create so much drag on the bullet it might not get out of the barrel. If it managed to get out due to the increased drag it will not have enough velocity to reach the target.


  11. Wow those are some truly impressive groups, B.B.! And you did not sort or lube your pellets.
    You have two reports in one; evaluating the LGU and testing the same pellet in more than one head size. It sure would be interesting to compare chrony data between the two pellets. Although it seems that the 4.50mm head pellet turned in an unbeatably small group, the 4.51mm might even be better, if only in velocity/extreme spread. We’ve just seen how head size can be MAGIC, but it takes time to evaluate all the sizes.
    If I owned this rifle I would also try the JSB 8.4’s and the H&N FTT in the various head sizes. In .177, the FTT with 4.51mm head size was the winner for my TX 200 hc.


    • Feinwork

      You are another fan of FTT ?
      I have two HWs that like the 4.50 and 4.51 very well. I don’t see any noticeable difference over the chrono, or on paper.
      I have gone to using the 4.51 instead of the 4.50 because some times I will load a 4.50 that feels a bit loose. May shoot them fine, but a fit that feels just a bit loose always worries me.
      I tried 4.52, but they loaded a lot harder, so paid no attention to groups or chrono. Just loaded way too hard for my liking . Never measured them. May be larger than 4.52 in reality.

      twotalon


      • TT,
        I sure am. And in .22 cal, the FTT with 4.53mm head size was the winner for my TX200mkiii. While making range tables and comparing to other pellets of similar weight, the FTT’s required slightly less holdover at longer distances. Although I don’t have chrony data at distance, this indicates to me that the FTT has an efficient shape, retaining more velocity downrange.
        The FTT was also the best pellet for my old .20 cal R1, although they don’t have different head size choices for .20.
        I also lube all my pellets with Krytech finish line wax, but don’t sort them.


      • Just to input a second on this one. I love both H&N and JSB and both shoot pretty close in my TX200 however unlike just about every other TX / PS owner (even Hw77/97 guys) are super into the FTT and the JSB 8.34 grain I have been grouping best with the heavy 10.65 grain Barracuda and the JSB Exact Heavy Diabolo 10.34 grain pellets. Agreed most of the LW barrels like the 4.52/4.53mm head sizes best but your results may vary.

        -Pezz


        • Pezz

          My LW barreled rifles (all pcp) do not much care for FTT, but they do like some sizes and weights of JSB .

          The power plants complain a bit if I use JSB in my springers, except for the R7s (JSB RS).

          twotalon


        • Pezz
          Thank you for posting that about the 10.34 JSB’s I swear by them and I know I shouldn’t but I have had way to good luck with them out of multiple types of guns with different velocities from slow to fast.

          Although my experience is they start loosing accuracy as you get them up in the 950 fps range or above. I can take and shoot them in my Marauder and watch the groups grow as the power goes up. Then I can start slowing the gun down and watch the groups start shrinking and really stabilize into a very consistent group.

          And my trajectory tests with those pellets even thought they weigh more have a nice flat trajectory.


  12. That is extraordinary.

    It’s stunning that we live in a time and place that we can order a rifle, scope, mounts and pellets over the Internet and achieve such precision. Imagine the challenges faced by Pope, Whelen, Mann and others in their efforts to get this level of performance, while its delivered to our door in a box.

    I want one, too!

    We have much to be thankful for.

    RB



    • U,

      I don’t think your idea is stupid. A durable, uniform coating might improve the accuracy of a smooth bore barrel. Moly coatings are popular with firearm target shooters, and many air rifle shooters lube their pellets.

      RB



    • The blogs motto I believe is there are no stupid questions. One remains stupid for not asking the question. When one receives an answer for a question no matter what kind it is, then one becomes enlightened.


    • Research is looking and asking around if something has been done. You are doing research and it is best done before repeating the misteps someone already made.

      Keep asking questions.


  13. Hi Tom,

    I recently bought a Webley Alecto air pistol. In all of the videos I’ve viewed on it, the internals are all a shiny metal. Mine however, has mostly black internals. I was wondering if you’ve seen this? Do you know if they’ve gone from metal internals to black composite internals?

    Thank you,
    Doug



    • Hi Doug,
      I have an Alecto Ultra in .177 that I bought over a year ago. The pump cylinder and rod appear to have a black coating of some kind, not silver.
      Great pistol, BTW, and the best implementation of an auto safety I have ever seen; so easy to flick away when placing trigger finger.
      Mine shoots barracuda match 4.53mm head size well around 525 fps with 3 pumps. It will take 4 pumps and crest 600 fps, however this pistol cracks loudly compared to my springers and shrouded PCP’s, even with 2-3 pumps.
      I scoped it and made a neat wire stock that clamps onto the bottom accessory rail to make it into a handy carbine.


    • Hi Doug,
      I seem to have lost my first response post to your question; maybe it’ll come through later. I have an Alecto Ultra that’s more than 1yr old and the pump cylinder and rod are black. Great pistol but cracks loudly compared to my springers and shrouded PCP’s.


  14. B.B.

    Very impressive groups Sir! I just looked up the TX 200 & this gun on the PA website. The TX has 143 reviews all 5 Star. The LGU has 1, 4 star but of course its just out but this person complains about the plastic trigger & the screw that fell out when adjusting the trigger. Also, the underlever lock was not precise. The spec also says it (lgu) can be manually decocked. How so?. If I had the dough to own a top Air rifle I think my choice would be the TX cos no one has a bad word about it.

    Errol


  15. Twotalon,

    I think you cant go wrong with baracuda match and Ftt in a +14 pound weihrauch. All my weihrauchs just love them. Head diameters do change, from batch to batch. What I do, I go to my german gunsmith right here over the border, and test different batches. When I get the right one, I buy all the pellets from that batch…..at least as far my wallet can handle:)



  16. While I’m neither a new rifle shooter or new to air rifles, I have very little experience with spring piston or gas piston air rifles.

    My questions are these. If gas piston have significant advantages such as being smoother to cock, etc. why does it seem that high quality rifles like the TX 200 and the Walther’s LGU, now being discussed, have spring piston power plants? Are there gas piston under lever rifles on the market with similar shooting characteristics to the TX 200 and the Walther’s LGU? Or are gas springs just not suitable for, reason I don’t yet understand?

    As an entry level silhouette and field target shooter, I’d rather spend money one time on one really good rifle then continually pay to upgrade. I just don’t have the room in my gun safe to store a lot of rifles I don’t shoot.

    Thanks for any insights this group can provide on these questions.
    William Schooley A/K/A 10 Meter Shooter



    • Hi William,
      I would add that a spring piston powerplant can be completely stripped and serviced by the user and, I believe, has the potential for an exceptionally long service life (decades). I don’t think that a gas spring assembly is user serviceable for seal replacement and depressurization/repressurization with nitrogen gas. I’m not sure, but I would guess that some are crimped closed during assembly like the automotive ones used on hatches and hoods.


  17. BB I have the LGU for about 2 weeks and to brutal cols here to test any more. One day however I shot at 28 yds and got a ragged hole with JB 8.4 pellets. I hope the CPHP do that well. at 35 ft with the HP’s you have to try not to shoot one hole. this gun is PCP accurate and the cheapest high quality German gun


    • Mr Meener

      I went out earlier today to shoot and lasted 30 minutes. Been inside for a while and my feet are still cold. All I accomplished was sighting in the CenterPoint scope that came with my Benji NP Trail. Never had this scope out of the box because of what I read about it. Turns out it is not bad at all especially for a bundled scope, cross hairs are a bit thick but it is serviceable for punching holes in paper at 25 yds and should do all right for pest control hunting. It is a 3-9×40 AO not the the 4-16×40 AO now being bundled with the NP2.

      David



        • We will see what happens. I had a Leapers 3-12×44 AO SWAT scope on the Benji but I moved it to my 460 Magnum when I got it last month, so for now this is what I have available. If it doesn’t hold up guess I’ll have to get something better.

          David


      • Ok you guys tell me how cold it is there and I will tell you how cold it is here.

        And by the way I will tell you up front that I cheat. My shooting area in not ideal weather conditions is from my breezeway that attaches the garage to the house.

        And I remember when I was younger that I thought breezeways were for wimpy people that didn’t like to get rain or snow on them.

        Little did I know when I got older that’s where I would be doing most of my adult air gunning from. Yep its dry in there all the time and cold in the summer and warm in the winter.

        Sorry and yes I know I’m a very, very lucky person. Amen


  18. B.B.,

    In your opening paragraph you state that if the LGU is accurate it will be an option to consider other than the TX200. I am assuming that you are comparing underlevers in this instance.

    But if you were making an accuracy comparison you would have to include the LGV also. Just making sure. I’m a staunch, if not paranoid, defender of the LGV. It still surprises me how little this rifle is talked about. My guess is that the price is still hurting it.

    G&G


    • G&G,

      I meant what I said. The TX is at the top of all spring guns. Now it has to share that spot with the LGU.

      The LGV is still a wonderful airgun and I love my .22, but it isn’t as accurate as this LGU. I could compete in field target with this rifle.

      Just because the LGU is wonderful doesn’t diminish the LGV. They are two different designs that both have admirers.

      B.B.


      • I said it before and I will say it again. People usually don’t use the bigger.22 cal. diameter in field target because you loose the advantage of the smaller diameter.177 cal. pellet going through the kill zone hole. The bigger diameter .22 cal. pellet takes up more of the kill zone hole which means you need a more accurate gun than a.177 cal. gun that is less accurate.

        What I’m trying to say is the .22 cal. LGU shoots so good that it would have the same advantage as the smaller cal. pellet does. The LGU is on the money is all I can say.


      • B.B.,

        I understand what you are saying but I simply can not shoot as well with the TX200 as I can the LGV. So for me at least the LGV is the better gun. I can’t explain it except that the LGV “fits” me better than the TX200. Also, I appear to have absolutely no hold issues with the LGV. It is a very comfortable gun for me.

        G&G


  19. That’s impressive accuracy! I can’t afford an LGU but I could afford a weaker spring for my LGV Master. It launches CPLs at more than 100 fps faster than this LGU and its accuracy and pellet favorites are similar to the LGV that you tested, BB. I wonder how an LGV would shoot with a little de-tune!

    -Cal


  20. Looks like we have a resounding answer to the accuracy question. There’s also an important point of blog history. B.B., I thought that when you first acquired a TX200 that you had to decide between it and an HW97 that was tuned to a gnat’s eyelash. That sounds like you’ve had some experience with the gun. It’s important to get this epic event straight. 🙂

    Perhaps you all have noticed the announcements about the Navy’s new laser weapon. Trajectory calculations will be a thing of the past!

    Thanks for the flood of useful advice for Lauren on the concealed carry question. I turns out that the issue is turning on the very frontier of shooting technology: ergonomics. Anything larger than a .380 feels too bulky for her. It’s a personal decision. But the field is still open on carry options. Here’s something I really know nothing about, especially for women. I’m with Clint Eastwood in movie, The Firing Line. As an FBI agent, he is pulling security at a social function, and he walks up to a fellow FBI agent, wearing a slinky cocktail dress, and asks (with a leer) where she is carrying her weapon. I’m also thinking of the daughter of the Romanian dictator Ceaecescu who was arrested with her father. She pulled a gun out of her bra and emptied it at her captors and missed them completely.

    I suggested the old gun in the purse ploy which would allow a larger gun, but Lauren worries that someone might snatch her purse leaving her helpless. I didn’t have an answer for that. Edith, I’m guessing you’re the authority on this subject, but the rest of our commenters are far too inventive to be ruled out.

    Matt61



    • Matt61,

      I have THE perfect answer for a woman who wants to carry a pistol, doesn’t want to spend a fortune buying a concealed carry purse, isn’t that concerned with looking like a fashion plate and wants a highly functional item.

      Leapers actually had such an item at a SHOT Show 2 years ago. They called it a front pack. I called it the perfect purse. I had literally looked at 1000+ purses online, in stores and at SHOT Shows trying to locate the perfect purse. Just last week, Leapers contacted me and said the front pack (now called the Vital Chest Pack) was in production & on its way to me.

      Because I’m taller than the average woman and have longer legs and arms, I wear it while driving my minivan! It doesn’t get in the way, and the seatbelt fits around it.

      What I like is that everything is right under my nose at all times. It’s all right there, easy to access — yet out of the way.

      I’ve sent Leapers a couple photos of me wearing it in and out of the car along with a testimonial. They may use it on their social network pages and perhaps elsewhere. I don’t know if Pyramyd Air will be stocking this item. Here’s the link to the pack on Leapers’ site:
      http://www.leapers.com/prod_detail.php?mitem=tacti&itemno=PVC-VP01BG

      One other plus. I used to keep my purse on the bathroom counter. Now, I slip a wooden hanger through the carry loop on top and hang it in the closet. I love this pack!

      Edith


    • Matt61
      I also read a older blog BB did and if I remember right that he said the Diana 54 Air King shot better than the TX.

      I have both guns and I know the how that answer goes on side by side as shipped from the factory guns go.

      And I know the answer to how my TX shoots now after I tuned it.

      Good shooting guns are fun to have.


      • Gunfun,

        Been thinking about tuning the 460 Magnum now that I see how well the HW50S shoots. Vortex had a kit for the 460 but I think you still end up with a 20 fpe gun after the tune. If I do the tune and still have a 20 fpe gun afterwards don’t know if it is going to shoot much better then it shoots now and I am out the cost of the kit plus I have voided the warranty. I like the 460 a lot just that I am also liking the ease of shooting the 50. Got to live with both guns for a while before doing anything drastic. Maybe I’ll get the Vortex kit for the Air Hawk says on the web sight it is the same kit that fits the 34. Wonder how a tuned Air Hawk compares to a 34? Could be worth trying as my first attempt at air gun tuning.

        David


        • David
          What is the 460 rated at from the factory for fpe not fps. Are they a 20 fpe from the factory I don’t remember.

          Even if the fpe is the same after the tune kit the gun will probably be smoother and more accurate because it should make the shot cycle more tame. Maybe not as much bump or vibrations. That will help to keep the gun from moving around when you shoot. That means the gun should be not as hold sensitive.

          If you find a tune kit with a spring that produces a little less fpe than your 460 is making now then you will see the results better from the tune kit.


          • Gunfun,

            No energy rating is given just velocity of 1200 fps by Pyramyd and 1150 fps by Diana. I got the 20 fpe from measurements of my own gun (actually measure was 20.84 fpe with H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets)

            David


            • David
              Have you looked for any tune kits that come with a spring that they say is lighter than the factory spring.

              And you know there are things that can be done to get the velocity up after you tune a gun.

              Most kits will come with shims I call them and some calk them spacers.

              There is more to tuning than skapping the kit in. That works but believe me there is more to be had by do ing some work on the piston and spring.

              My TX absalutly does not move any way when you shoot it from a rest or a bi-pod after I got through tuning it. And I haven’t touched the piston yet.it can be lightened and that will help it accelerate faster and have less energy when it comes to stop.

              And you can use the piston head seal that comes in the kits. That will usually speed the piston up or in my case with the TX I left the factory piston seal on because I wanted a little extra drag to slow the piston down on the recoil.

              So yes the kit would help and yes there is even more to be done with tunning like the grease or lube you want.

              But that’s the thing about tuning your making the gun what you want it to be.


    • Matt61
      And I did hear about the Navy’s laser system. We were talking about it the other day at work.

      Just imagine when they put it on the Fighter gets like the yf 22 I think they say that jet can go out of the Earth’s atmosphere for a brief moment.

      Watch out Star Wars here we come. Can you imagine what a laser could be like on a fighter jet.


      • Gunfun,

        First place the Navy will use them is to protect the carriers from the so called Chinese carrier killer missiles. I don’t think they are small enough to put on our fighters yet. But we can dream, say weren’t we suppose to have bases on the moon and Mars by now? I got me a shelf of SF books that say that, so what happened?

        David


  21. BB
    You mentioned in a previous post that your TX out shot your FWB 300s. I guess the LGU will put them both in the shade. I have an FWB 300s and any gun that can out shoot it is phenomenal!


  22. Thanks guys, sorry for the late reply but Im workin about 12 hours a day and only get to check this before bed. As far as velocity goes I discovered airguns before I discovered this blog and since I didn’t know anyone with an airgun like these I had no way to know any better and the first one was the fastest and cheapest Walmart had ha! Honestly though I’m glad it goes like that because the fact that a pellet could be so powerful was the only thing to draw me away from firearms long enough to give airguns any thought. I go shootin with my buddies now and always bring an air rifle or two and when someone is there who hasn’t seen one they always look at me like I’m crazy, then they shoot it, then they wanna know where they can get one and how how much! I think it’s because I live in Kentucky and firearms here are a dime a dozen so nobody really knows about these airguns. It only takes one shot from a good one though and you can see the revelation wash over them. It helps a great deal that there is such a helpful community on the Internet, and resources such as this blog too. I am pretty sure I’m going with the LGU at this point because I can’t find anyone short of amazed by it, and the price is right. I have been wanting the TX for so long and the LGU just came out of nowhere! Anyway thanks guys, BB sorry for the long post you all have a good night.


  23. I got a chance to shoot the LGU today. It is a beautifully built piece. Definitly on par with the Hw97 and the Tx200. I have now had a chance to shoot them all. Not extensively but some.
    I am torn in thirds now instead of just in half. All three are perfect and have huge pluses and minuses. I would say the loading port is the biggest difference. The new LGU has a very large opening. It is cut down . As the HW is cut on top. The LGU is side opening but larger than the TX. This makes scope planet less critical.


  24. BB,

    You said the lgu is more accurate than the lgv. How come?
    The lgv has that nice barrel lock, so there should be no movement at all. What do you think makes the difference in accuracy between those two models?

    Dutchjozef


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