by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Diana RWS 34P breakbarrel air rifle.
This report covers:
• Introduction
• Diana 34 history
• 34P was used as a testbed
• Velocity with Premier lite pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• Trigger-pull
• Cocking effort
• Final comment
Introduction
This is Part 2 of an update on the Diana 34P air rifle. I’ve already reported extensively on this rifle, both in its factory trim, in this 4-part report, and again, when I tuned it several years ago with the Air Venturi Pro-Guide Spring Retainer System, (see Part 5 of the series on the Air-Venturi Pro-Guide Spring Retainer System). That system is no longer available, but it’s in the gun we’re testing today.
This will be an update on this rifle by itself, but I’ll soon use it, again, in Part 6 of The great pellet comparison test. Before I do that, though, I wanted to familiarize our new readers with the performance of this tuned air rifle. After this report, I’ll be doing a traditional accuracy test to find one or two best premium pellets that will go against all those bargain pellets in the test.
Diana 34 history
I’ve often said in this blog that a Diana model 34 air rifle is the best inexpensive air rifle on the market. I know it’s far from the cheapest, so here’s what I mean by that. Back in the 1980s and ’90s, the Diana 34 wasn’t the rifle it is today. The powerplant was very buzzy, and the trigger left a lot to be desired. The rifle was selling for $90 in those days and RW USA, the U.S. importer of Diana airguns, used the 34 as their entry-level gun in a long line of models they were selling.
There was the upscale model 36 that had some nicer features, such as a better stock and sights, and the model 38 that featured a checkered walnut stock. At the heart of all 3 rifles, though, was the same powerplant. For several years, it was confusing to buy a Diana air rifle. You wanted the best you could afford, but the top-of-the-line model 38 had the same buzzy powerplant as the entry-level 34. The metal was finished better and, of course, the stock was much better looking. But, when the shot went off, you were back to a basic gun because the insides of all 3 models were all the same.
This story would be great if I could tell you that Diana changed everything overnight, but it didn’t happen that way. What I’m about to tell you took place over more than a decade as models shifted around and were eventually dropped from the catalog. First to go was the expensive model 38, whose walnut stock was kept for a special version of the model 36. The regular model 36 had a beech stock that was shaped nicely, in contrast to the 34 stock that looked like it had been melted.
As the models were changing, the insides of all versions were also changing. Tolerances were getting tighter, and the trigger was evolving. This went largely unnoticed by many, including me, until one day in 2007 when I chanced to test the Diana 34P (it was called the Panther at the time, but the name was changed to just the 34P). I remembered my model 34 from 1990 that was so rough around the edges; so, when I shot the much-improved 34P in the test, I was surprised that most of the buzzing had disappeared and the trigger was much improved.
34P was used as a testbed
I liked that rifle (which is the one I’m testing today) so much that I convinced Pyramyd AIR to let me keep it on a long-term loan so I could do more tests, using it as a base rifle. The UTG Drooper scope base was developed on this very rifle. And that is why the UTG base for the Diana 34 has such a pronounced droop! This particular rifle hits 21 inches below where the scope looks when no corrective base is installed!
As an aside, I did not come up with the idea for the drooper base. I was in a meeting with Leapers at the SHOT Show about a base that would fit all Diana rifles but would not bear against the large-head screw at the rear of their base. Back in the old days, shooters thought that screw was a perfect way to anchor a scope mount from moving. I cannot tell you how many hundreds of screw heads were sheared off! I did 2 of them, myself!
So, the scope base I was proposing to Leapers that day was just to fix that problem. My buddy, Mac, came up with the idea of correcting the droop at the same time. When he said it, I recognized that it was what had been missing from my proposal! I worked with Leapers’ engineers throughout the the next year, and the result was the UTG Drooper base.
I note with irony that the airgun manufacturer, Diana, who had ignored my pleas to correct their barrel drooping problem with certain air rifles, finally changed the bases on all their rifles, so the UTG base would no longer fit about 5 years after it came on the market. Oh, well! There are still hundreds of thousands of Diana rifles made before the recent change, and the UTG Drooper Base is the best way to correct the drooping problem on them.
During this same period of years, the Air Venturi Pro-Guide Spring Retainer System came out, and the 34P was a perfect candidate for installation. The Pro-Guide was a drop-in system that tightened the tolerances in the powerplant and boosted velocity at the same time. Mine has been in this rifle for 6 years. Although I haven’t shot it that much (I never get as much shooting of the guns I enjoy), it’s been shot enough to be broken in.
Today, I’m baselining the gun’s performance for you. When we get to Part 6 of the pellet accuracy test, you’ll be able to check back to this report to find out about the rifle that was used.
Velocity with Premier lite pellets
I began testing velocity with our standard candle — the Crosman 7.9-grain Premier lite. Not only is this the pellet I try to always use in velocity tests, it also happens to be accurate in this particular rifle based on my past tests!
Today, the Premier lite averaged 937 f.p.s. in this Diana 34P as it is tuned. The spread was large, ranging from a low of 923 f.p.s. to a high of 958 f.p.s. That’s a total of 35 f.p.s. — a little on the high side for a tuned air rifle. At the average velocity, this pellet produced 15.41 foot-pounds of energy.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets
Next up was the H&N Baracuda Match. Because Pyramyd AIR recently sent me some of these with larger head sizes, I decided to test the 4.52mm head in the 34P. They averaged 782 f.p.s., and the spread went from a low of 771 to a high of 792 f.p.s. That’s just 21 f.p.s. and is more like what I hoped for. At this velocity, the pellet produces 14.47 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
I must comment that the 34P as it’s now tuned is very smooth-shooting. There’s some recoil, but a light hold (which is needed for accuracy with a powerful breakbarrel anyway) negates that. However, when I loaded the H&N Baracuda Match, the firing behavior became smoother. Some of the recoil seemed to go away, as well. I can’t wait to try this pellet on paper at 25 yards!
Air Arms Falcon pellets
The last pellet I tested was the 7.33-grain Air Arms Falcon dome that’s been doing so well recently in my accuracy tests. This one has a 4.52mm head, also. Falcons averaged 930 f.p.s. in the 34P, which came as a real surprise to me. They’re lighter than the Premier lites, and I expected them to be over 1,000 f.p.s.; but as you can see, that didn’t happen.
The spread went from a low of 913 to a high of 941 f.p.s., which is 28 f.p.s. In this tuned rifle, they vary more than the much heavier Baracuda Match. Even though the head is large, these Falcons fit the Diana’s breech easier than the other 2 pellets. They were almost loose, but not quite.
At the average velocity, Falcons produced 14.08 foot-pounds of energy, which is below even the heavy Baracuda Match pellets. I don’t know whether or not they’ll be accurate in this rifle. We’ll have to wait and see.
Trigger-pull
Since this is a Part 2, I did a trigger-pull test for you, as well. The rifle has a T06 trigger that was installed and tested back in 2011. It’s set to 2 stages that are very clear and separate. Stage 2 breaks crisply at 1 lb., 8 oz. (24 oz.). It’s not a TX200 trigger, but it’s pretty darned nice — certainly nicer than the trigger on any powerful spring rifle in this price range!
Cocking effort
The rifle, as it’s now tuned, cocks with but 28 lbs. of effort. However, it does feel like more than that. I have the barrel pivot joint adjusted extremely tight, and I think I’ve added some resistance to the cocking effort. It feels like over 30 lbs. to me. I will say that the cocking effort is incredibly smooth. Most breakbarrels have either some grinding as the barrel breaks down, or there will be hesitation or a sudden increase in the force required at some point. This rifle has none of that. It is what it as — all the way through the cocking stroke.
Final comment
The last thing I will say is that this rifle, with its special tune, is no longer a stock 34P. I don’t want anyone to think that it is. Back when this drop-in tune was available from Pyramyd AIR, I think it was selling for around $100, or slightly more. A clever home tuner could do what this kit has done just by tightening all the tolerances in the powerplant, but I don’t want anyone to think that a factory 34P is as smooth as this one. I realize that none of you can feel how smooth this rifle is; but I’ll be commenting on it in the future, and I don’t want to confuse anyone.
On the same note, all 34Ps should be about as accurate as this one. Each rifle will vary, but they’re all quite accurate –and tunes do not increase the accuracy of the gun. They make them more pleasant to shoot. And a 34P comes with the T06 trigger today, where I had to install the one that’s in this rifle. So, I think the 34P is still the best spring gun bargain on the market.
You make me want to get a Diana now. I tell you, BB… I can’t afford all the fun stuff you show me!
I am likely to be getting some of those Air Arms Falcon pellets tho, you have really convinced me of the value of that particular pellet, and it’s even comparable to the ubiquitous Crosman Premiers in price, especially for the .22 cal.
It sounds like the loose fit for these was what caused the “low” FPE, does that sound correct?
One last thought on Methodology: I have noticed your initial pellet often has inconsistency compared to the rest of the pellets used in many tests. Have you considered doing a “three shot group” of the initial pellet used, but added to at the end of your testing, in order to confirm the pellet is acting the same? I could see a gun that has “warmed up” acting differently due to the effect of the heat (from use) on metal, lubricants, seals, etc. Instead of taking long breaks during testing to allow a potentially incomplete cooldown, a quick three shot follow up of the first pellet used in any series should help indicate if the Methodology is still correct, and it won’t add a lot of effort to your test, especially with a sweetheart like your Diana. 😉
Thanks for all the time you spend suffering for us, we appreciate the long hours and miserable working conditions Edith makes you go through! ~QJ
If the Air Arms Falcon pellets head measures 4.52mm the same as the H&N Baracuda Match pellets why is it easier for it to enter the breech? Is that what is stated on the tin or what was actually measured? If from the tin, would not a measurement be in order to find out if it will have an effect on accuracy?
Siraniko,
The 34 has the breech cut at an angle to the bore. You need to seat the pellet flush so that it doesn’t catch when you close the action. A “pure” lead pellet like the Air Arms is easier to push the tail into the bore because it is softer than an alloy pellet, and thus deforms easier. Ease of seating also has a bit to do with how “thick” the skirt is. The the edge of the skirt is really thick the pellet can also be hard to seat.
Siraniko,
You also have to take into account the skirt. The Falcons have short, thin skirts which deform, or in this case reform easily to the rifling of the barrel, while the Baracuda has a longer, thicker skirt which is more resistant to reformation.
As I believe BB has explained previously, the larger diameter of the head helps to insure a more proper alignment within the barrel. If it is too large a head, it can indeed be more difficult to load the pellet and also affect performance.
Herb and RidgeRunner,
I was not aware that the Air Arms Falcon pellets were made of pure lead nor was I aware of the other differences between it and the H&N Baracuda Match pellets for the simple reason that I have never used them. I do recall BB’s comment regarding the head sizes. I am just wondering how big a factor head size in relation to skirt size really is. Now it seems there are other factors to consider such as the ductility of the pellet (pure lead is softer than an alloy), the thickness of the skirt allowing seating into the breech without deforming and size of the breech itself. I had just read BB’s article regarding loading pellets in break barrel rifles and was not aware that the 34 has the breech cut at an angle to the bore. Still reading the blog archives including the comments and I’m at September 2009 now.
Thanks for the lesson, I’m sure to apply it one day.
Siraniko,
A couple of other bits since you seem very interested. Springers are sensitive as to how deep you seat a pellet. Springers have a huge pressure pule which does two things.
First it may deform the pellet. It actually can blow the skirt out. (Test by shooting into 5 gallon pail of water covered with a thin foam sheet to greatly reduce splashing or shooting into a bat of fiber fill. ) This obviously affects the aerodynamics of the pellet.
Second the pulse dislodges the pellet at some point, as the pressure behind the pellet builds, and starts the pellet down the bore. In a springer the pellet is only accelerated for about 10 inches. After that the pellet actually loses velocity. (Pneumatics tend to get more velocity with a longer barrel). So springers and pneumatics have very different pressure behind pellet vs time as the pellet goes down bore.
Most people here in the Philippines start with the local MSP rifle then graduate to a CO2 before stepping up to a PCP. Only a few bother with the spring piston due to the discipline required to learn the artillery hold and their cost. All spring pistons here are imported causing a tripling of the price due to conversion of the US to our currency you also add on top of that the import tax and dealers fees. So yes loading properly is something to be studied if it affects the flight of the pellet. Although over here it is applicable in the sense that the swinging breech design similar to that of the MAC-1 USFT has been popular since an airgun maker named Ildefonso Carniga made them around late 70″s I believe.
Siraniko
Do you have that 12 fpe rule there.
I don’t know if you said and I may of missed it if you did say.
Fortunately no we don’t have that rule which is why Farco was able to develop their shotgun. The big thing here nowadays are PCPs that are locally manufactured. Most young airgunners here are still focused on Stage 1 which is speed. The fish hunters use CO2 powered smoothbore barrels and spears for fishing. There are some hunters who go after game with .22 cal PCPs loaded with 19.5 grain going at full power mostly birds. There are a few who go for 10 meter accuracy. There are also those who shoot just for the fun of it.
Siraniko
Ok I see the type of shooting that people are doing there.
Have you ever tryed low to medium powered guns with mid to heavy weight pellet’s?
Or do a lot people still go with the light weight pellets on the low and medium powered guns.
Gunfun1,
You know…I don’t believe most shooters here bother weighing their pellets. Most here shoot .22 cal so that is the one most commonly found. What they look for is accuracy. There are a few who do have weighing scales and chronometers but they are a minority. From what I have been able to observe most pellets here are .22 cal weigh in at 18.5 to 19.5 grains which puts them on the heavy side.
I have just restarted after a 25 year pause in using airguns so I still have to get a weighing scale and a chronometer.
Siraniko
The main thing I was wondering was how much the pellets weighed in general. Not necessarily how much they weighed from one pellet to the other.
And the 2 different weights you gave for the.22 cal. pellet’s is on the upper end of the weight scale here for that cal.
Do you have a idea of what fps those pellets usually shoot and are they fairly accurate.
I would like to see pictures of those pellets. Do you know how to post pictures on the blog?
GunFun1,
The weights are from two brands of pellets popular her for their accuracy. I have no idea how fast they are shooting as only a few so far have shown that they care enough to chronograph their guns with a range of 600 to 1100 fps. Those with PCPs are reporting 900 to 1100 fps. They do post pictures of 1 inch at 50 meters as their largest group with several a lot smaller.
Siraniko
So the other types of guns are probably the slower guns I guess then.
Are there any people that have pictures of the groups with slower guns at the 50 yards with those pellets you listed.
I meant 50 meters. Sorry.
Most simply guess what speed the pellets are going. Sorry cannot confirm actual speeds.
Siraniko
No problem. I was just thinking if that’s the weight pellets you have available and if they are used in the fast shooting guns then they must be used in the slower guns with good results if that’s all that’s available. I would really like to know what the heavier pellets are doing in slower velocity guns.
Nobody seems to be complaining. Most seem to enjoy the fact that they can shoot their airguns and hit the target. Most get enough experience with their airgun before they go out such that they know how far away a target can be that they can hit reliably. When I can get hard facts I will post it. I might end up doing a guest blog one of these days.
Siraniko
A guest blog about the air guns that you have available there along with ammo and the type of shooting you do would be great.
I would think that people here are curious about your air gunning as you are about ours. I know I am. The more things I learn about air gunning the better.
Again a guest blog would be great.
BB
That was nice reading about the evolution of the 34P. I would like to hear more history stories about the guns you test. Especially like this gun that has been around for a while and changed through time.
And I have to bring something up about the Falcon pellets and heavy pellets also since your talking about them now.
First of I have been watching the velocity spreads you have been getting with the Falcons with different guns you have been shooting them in. They always are within 6 to 10 fps spreads. So I’m thinking this pellet is produced consistently. And you have got good results with them.
Well here’s the interesting part. I just got that FWB 300s from RidgeRunner. And first I want to say its a cool piece of history to hold and shoot especially with the Bug Buster on it. But he said he got some good groups with the gun at 25 yards with the Falcons. So I asked if he had any to go with the gun and he did.
So as I do I always shoot a gun right out to 50 yards. That tells me real quick what a gun will usually be like. Well the 300s is suppose to be a lower powered close range target gun. Here goes the Falcons.Nope no good at 50 yards. So I say to myself yep I guess everybody is right about the 300s just not enough power to get the job done right at the farther distance.
But next interesting thing. Her goes my trusty 10.34 grain JSB pellet that’s shaped funny compared to a conventional pellet. First thing I’m thinking will the pellet make it out of the barrel. It did and it hit 3” low and 3”left which I didn’t care about at this time. I wanted to know if the 3 grain heavier pellet would group. Another shot and almost hit my first shots hole another shot and a bout a pellet width to the left another shot and aliitle to the right. By time I got 10 shot of I had about a 1.300” group. Then I remember myself saying them darn JSB heavy pellets went and did it again.
And I did try the Falcons in about 4 other guns. They looked the same as the group from the 300s. Like a 2.500” scattered shot gun pattern. But I did try the Falcons at 25 yards with all the guns and they did pretty good there. Well actually real good like the results RifgeRunner got.
I think them lighter pellets loose their speed to fast because they don’t have the weight to keep the momentum going. Does that mean that the heavier pellets may just be the secret. And like BB said I said it before that the heavy pellet seem to dampen the recoil.
All I can say is my JSB .177 cal. 10.34 grain pellets have not let me down yet.
GF1,
The more we shoot, the more we learn.
B.B.
BB
This is true. And I cant wait to see how the 34 does in that pellet accuracy test.
I have such a hard time convincing powder burners of the rapid velocity loss of the small, light pellets. All they have to do, assuming they are old enough, is recall the .17 Remington. That rifle had an incredibly flat trajectory, for about 300 yards. Then it quite literally fell out of the air.
That is what is happening with those Falcons. I have actually had a difficult time finding an air rifle that liked them. The FWB is the first one I have had that they worked well in. Since the “official” maximum range for mini-sniping is 35 yards, they should work great for that.
By the way, I ordered a JSB sampler because I have been wanting to try those funny looking pellets myself. As another aside, the Falcons are made by JSB, who now has there own labeled 7.33 pellets.
RR
I have a .17 hmr and they are a cool little round. I shoot it out to probably no more than 150 yrds. But yes I have heard alot of stories about that round. Its definitely one of those mystery projectiles.
And I plan on doing the mini-sniping also with the 300s so the JSB’s will work fine for me. And let me know what you think about them after you get your sample pack.
The Falcons are from Air Arms ain’t they? I didn’t even pay attention. But yes Air arms also has a 10.34 grain pellet that looks like the JSB 10.34’s. I heard before that one or the other was owned or sold out certain pellet designs to the other. Not 100% clear on which way that went.
JSB makes them for Air Arms. BB has said that Air Arms owns the molds. Now JSB is marketing what looks to be the same pellet.
The pellets are waiting at home for me right now. Hopefully I will be able to give them a try this weekend, but I really do not have anything with any power right now. All my stuff that is up and running is for 10 meter.
RR
I used them in my 1377 that I put that Discovery breech and barrel with the 1399 stock.
At 4 pumps I could watch the pellet come out of the barrel and almost drop in the same hole at 35 yards all day long. That was probably 400 fps.
You don’t have to have a lot of power to make a pellet work.
RR,
Tell the powder-burners to image shooting a bullet with a parachute behind it. That is essentially what a drag stabilized pellet is.
Since I shoot in the city I have to be very very careful about trajectory. If all my other safety measures fail I am glad that the pellet won’t go a mile. (I’ve had shot drop on me in many a dove field.)
Some of the big-bore group are shooting bullets of course not pellets. Subsonic bullets can go a long, long way with very lethal force.
Gunfun1,
All of my fwb 300 series guns like lighter pellets vs. heavier pellets even at long range. The air arms falcons 7.33gr or jsb 7.3gr are one of the best pellets. You may also want to try jsb 8.4gr in that fwb 300s.
Don’t know what fpe your fwb 300s is shooting but if it’s close to spec it has enough power to shoot and print respectable groups at 50 yards.
If you’re shooting with a bugbuster scope at longer ranges parallax and thick reticles that bugbusters are famous for will be more of a handicap than your fwb 300s. Here are some targets shot at even longer distances with an fwb 300 by Yrrah (Harry in OZ):
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1238763636/Target+groups+from+50+yd+to+%26quot%3Bway+out+there%26quot%3B+with+FWB+10+m+300+S+springer-
kevin
Kevin
Cool article. I wonder if there is something done to that gun. That’s definitely some good shooting.
The 300s I have will no way produce those results at 50 yards with the Falcons. I would get pellets touching each other then the next 4 or 5 shots would be all around the main group.
When I shot the JSB 10 .34’s the groups immediately got more consistent. I tryed the Falcons in the hw50s, 54 Air King, TX, and the.177 cal. Marauder. They just didn’t want to do good out at 50 yards.
Then I shot the Falcons in at the 25 yards in all the guns I just listed and they were within .750” in the the group results.
And the 50s, 54, TX and Marauder are notable performers with the JSB’s at 50 yards. Im talking on the average I get around a .600” group with those guns at the50 yard mark.
So all I can say is what my guns are producing. But no luck for me with the Falcons. Don’t know why but just not happening for me. And just to add that the JSB’s at all distances in all guns was definitely a smoother shot cycle and they were hitting harder at the targets than the Falcons.
If the Falcons would of worked I would of got some. And these are my guns so don’t base the results of the Falcons by what I shot because we all know that two same guns may like a different pellet than the other. It would be wrong to say that one pellet would work good in a gun. Each gun is different just like people are.
Gunfun1,
Years ago IIRC harry replaced his seal and spring with ones that macarri still sells.
Your gun can probably at least reproduce harry’s groups shown at 71 yards if you shoot at 50 yards. I say “probably” because I’d check these things:
1-Do you have a chrony string for your gun? How wide is your variation in a 20 shot string?
2-Has the barrel been cleaned recently?
3-Shoot with a scope that is easier to dial out parallax and has thinner reticles than a bugbuster.
4-Roll and sort your pellets like harry does.
5-Shoot on a calm day onto a target that allows you to overlay your crosshairs to minimize cant.
kevin
Kevin
I’m lucky that only one direction the wind blows and it will affect my shooting area. That is a wind out of the North which is a wind from the left to the right. All the other wind directions is blocked by a hill and woods. I can see the trees blowing on top of the hill and not have a bit of wind were I shoot.
And that is good points about cleaning the barrel and chronying a gun which I also do.
And as far as the scope goes it will be fine because my intensions for the 309 was going to be the in close mini-sniping like RidgeRunner talks about. A my other guns have half mildot Hawke scopes on them. I almost ordered one for the 300 but the Bug Buster is actually working fine for the shooting I’m doing with the gun.
So the gun is fine for how I will use it. And I mostly got it cause it resembles my 54 Air King and its a nostalgia gun. I always wanted a FWB when I was a kid and thus gun is right in the area of time when I was getting out of high school.
And last remember really no reason for the barrel cleaning or chronying the 300s right now. The 10.34 JSB’s grouped fine at 50 yads. The Falcon’s didn’t. I’m thinking the chrony results would tell just what the shooting results did.
3rd paragraph down was suppose to say 300 not 309.
I have a 34P pro compact in .177. Don’t forget to mention that these rifles have choked barrels. It likes the Barracuda Match in 4.53mm head size. If you have time, could you also shoot these and compare the data with the 4.52’s?
Feinwerk,
According to Diana, any choke in the barrel is incidental to manufacture and not put there intentionally. Like when the front sight dovetails are swaged in. Or, at least, that is what a Diana rep. from Germany told me at the SHOT Show.
B.B.
Feinwerk,
I just read the part about the 4.53mm head pellets. I will try to fit that in.
B.B.
A choke at the muzzle is certainly noticeable when you push a brush or pellet through the bore. As with your rifle, I noticed a reduction in firing vibration with heavy pellets.
OK on possibly trying the 4.53’s.
BB
BB,
Sorry for the of topic question.
I was wondering if the gamo
whisper is more accurate with
the gas ram or without it????????
What i am talking about is just in
plain terms of accuracy
And till what range can a whisper
make a 2 inch group(10 shots approx)
With its best pellet
Utkarshgupta,
Welcome to the blog.
The rifle doesn’t change its accuracy with the gas spring. It is equally accurate with either powerplant.
But, in the specific case of the Gamo Whisper that has an Air Venturi gas spring installed, I find the rifle easier to shoot. However, I don’t find Gamo gas springs that are currently being sold in the rifles to be as smooth as this. They are slightly smoother than the Gamo steel springs, but not as much as the Air Venturi gas spring was.
The Air Venturi gas spring is no longer available, so I would recommend getting the Gamo with the factory gas spring.
With the best pellets and a good shooter a Whisper should be able to put 5 shots into 2 inches at 75 yards. For 10 shots I would cut that back to 50 yards.
B.B.
In curious, you’ve said it twice now that the powerplant doesn’t affect accuracy…… WHAT!? It only makes it more pleasant to shoot…. what happened to your adjustable muzzle weight test and vibrations DETERMINING accuracy?
RDNA,
You know, I should have said, “All things being equal…” but of course if the powerplant is changed, they are no longer equal. You are correct, changing vibrations will change the accuracy.
Thanks for catching that.
B.B.
No worries, just doing my part to keep you dancin’! Lol, great report though like gunfun said, love hearing the genealogy and stories behind the guns, any of them makes for a lesson.
BB,
On the topic of the big bores, I am sure they are the exception to the rule, but I have seen photos of 1 MOA groups at 300 yards.
It is my understanding that the big bore FX and Daystate are capable of such at 100 yards, so there is hope on the horizon.
Shooting bullets(Conical) not pellets(Diabolo) for those 300 yard shots,right?
Yes, that was with cast bullets. Many of them are using .257 and .308.
RR,
Now, that is good news!
B.B.
There is an ongoing competition called the Pepsi Challenge. The idea is to see how far away you can bust open a can of Pepsi with an air rifle.
The present record holder hit a Pepsi at 614 yards with a Jack Haley Scandalous .257.
Crosman has a long way to go.
RR,
I haven’t seen Daystate or FX big bore shoot, so that is hopeful. I just hope they can do it with real bullets and not oversized diabolo pellets. You can’t hunt deer with a pellet.
B.B.
That is with the JSB pellets. Hopefully we will soon see such with cast bullets. Crosman had the chance with the Rogue, but tried to make it too short and tried to make it look like a Mattelomatic. If they had given it a 24″ or 32″ barrel and a sporter or bench stock, it might have worked.
I am hoping they will get that idea with their new Bulldog. Maybe that will work.
Stock tune was initially pretty harsh on mine, improving gradually to decent/tame at about 1000 pellets, where it leveled off. Trigger is wonderful if you like the two stage nonsense that airgunners seem to crave. I like that it resets if not tripped — big plus on the T06, I think. Cocking would improve immensely with articulated cocking lever, like the $100 clones :)!
The stock is still fat to me, but very serviceable; the previous one still on blackhawk clone is perfect. It couldalso use a rubber butt pad, so it doesn’t slip when leaned in a corner!
I believe I noted a choke staring well before the front sight area, quite noticeable if I remember correctly?!?….
BB,
And how do the bronco and fuel compare to it
Utkarshgupta,
The Fuel is good up close, but after 25 yards it’s accuracy falls off. The Bronco isn’t in the same class. It is a much lower-powered rifle.
B.B.
On the subject of Diana, and for that matter Weihrauch barrels being unchoked, and I’ve had it from good sources they aren’t…I simply have to call BS on it, whether incidental or not…they are….clean the barrel on this…or an elderly 27, or your HW55…..then gently rod a pellet through…feel the greater resistance in the last two inches.
I find it hard to believe that they’ve accidentally, and remarkably consistently, choked the barrel on every German made Diana and Weihrauch I’ve ever owned…..and there have been many.
It’s one of airgunnings mysteries…unless, somehow in the milling of the front sight mountings this is a constant side effect?.
Either way, both companies could market their barrels as demonstrably choked, that’s for sure.
Yes, nice guns. I have a 34 with the TO5 trigger that I bought from an estate about two years ago. It’s a good shooter, most accurate with the RWS Superpoints so far….go figure. It currently has a Walter 1.5 to 5 scope on it which is made in China (Where else?). The scope works but it won’t focus correctly above 2.5 power. So, I just purchased from Pyramyd a UTG Hunter 4X Scope for it. I’ll probably wait until the weather warms to make the change. This 34 doesn’t have much droop so the scope adjustment works without maxing it out.
Mike
I was going to mention about the t05 that looking around nobody seemed to know how to easily tune the trigger with just the screw. The t05 on the airmag was unbearably long. Just get an adjustment screw that is a 1/16″ longer after the tip is super polished and it can be adjusted perfectly without touching anything else. People were filing away part of the trigger to get it in deeper but saying in the same breathe that a longer screw wouldn’t help, well I tried the longer screw, it helps. You can get it to any different way you like it and there is way more then enough engagement to handle the little bit extra on the screw.
BB,
I would like to ask permission to partially translate into my native tongue and post links to the original articles on the blog. Although we use English as our second language some are not that well versed either in searching on the internet or interpreting what is written in the posts. In the Facebook group devoted to airguns in the Philippines that I have joined we have just reached 1000 in number. I have no idea how many more will join, but what I do at present is answer questions in terms that they can understand and place a link to the original article.
Siraniko,
What do you mean by “partially translate”? Are you saying you would translate a small part, such as the opening paragraph, into your native tongue (Tagalog?), post that translation on facebook and then link back to the blog page so others can read the entire blog?
Edith
Yes, I plan to give a short answer from the article in Tagalog and point then to the blog for the complete article.
Siraniko,
Yes. You can do what you said. Please provide a link to the facebook page.
Thanks,
Edith
Here is a sample of what I would post on a question posted by a member asking how to zero his scope.
“First sight in 10 feet. Kung lahat ng bala naroon subukan mo ng 10 meters then adjust. Kung kalat ka at 10 feet may problema mounting mo.” reference /…/All_about_scopes_Part_3…/22
Siraniko,
Please make sure the link takes you to the blog page. The link I see above takes people to Pyramyd Air’s website instead of a specific blog page. That might be confusing to people.
Thanks,
Edith
Yes Ma’am. I had pasted the complete link but the blog published it chopped up. When I post the link on a Facebook reply there is a preview image showing the proper blog entry. That at least tells me if the link is properly rendered.
Who would have thought that the fabled Diana 34 started out with a buzzy powerplant? Thanks to the blog, I have avoided any rifles like that, but they sound very aggravating.
I could use some advice. My student Lauren who I introduced to airguns is now surpassing the master by getting ready to buy a concealed handgun. There’s a topic that I know nothing about, and she wants my advice comparing the SW M&P in 9mm and the SW Bodyguard in .380. Anyone have suggestions or other models to propose? I’m voting against the Bodyguard because I’m not a fan of .380 as a defense caliber. It seemed puny when I shot it, and the small handgun was not easy to shoot either. Also, this model has a very long, heavy DA pull which seems likely to throw your first shot wide.
What I can offer are plenty of movie examples of the virtues of carrying multiple back-up guns. One of my favorites is from the film Limey where a British small-time criminal is investigating the mysterious death of his daughter in L.A. He goes into a factory of suspicious people, gets into an argument and pulls a gun. They knock it aside, punch him out, and throw him outside, high-fiving each other as they leave. The British guy waits a few moments, pulls out a back up gun from the small of his back and heads to the factory. The whole thing–even his bloody nose–was a ruse to get their guard down. Then you hear shots from the building, screams, and people start running out.
That was an interesting coincidence that I mentioned the Beretta 92 awhile ago. The army has at long last announced plans to replace this handgun. I think it would be interesting now to predict the winner. We don’t know all the entrants, but the frontrunners are the SW M&P and the Glock. I’m going with the M&P as the eventual winner. But I don’t suppose we’ll know the answer for a few years.
Matt61
Matt61, I would recommend the Glock 19. It’s a mid sized 9mm Para. that is very, very reliable. It is also effective with modern ammo. One I know works is the Speer Gold Dot +P 124 grain. If I needed to take a new handgun out of a box and defend my life with it, it would be a Glock. They work as well as a machine can be made to. If you want something smaller, than go with the Glock 26 also a 9mm Para. If possible I would buy one of the new Generation 4 versions.
Mike
Hi Mike. Glad you contributed as a Glock lover. My only question is the concealability. Lauren wants an inside-the-belt holster; I suppose the old purse carry method doesn’t appeal to her. I wonder if the square child would be comfortable to carry in that position. Or are there other positions more suitable for a Glock? Had no complaints myself when I fired the Glock. It is a fine weapon.
Matt61
I carry a Glock 26 often. I most often use an “Appendix Carry”. This is inside the waistband on the right side front about a hands width right of center. If a person is left handed it can be reversed. The Glock is only about 1/4 inch thicker than a Walther PPK so you can easily get used to it. With the Glock you can carry a Glock 17 magazine as an reload and have 17 extra rounds ready to go. It just hangs out the bottom. The stock mag holds 10 but you can add a +2 base for two more rounds.
Now, another way to go is with a revolver. A good one is the Smith and Wesson 640 in .38 Special. It is a double action only gun. No outside hammer. It will handle +P ammo and is very compact. And, being a revolver it is “Five for Sure”.
No jams, ever.
Mike
One more thing. As I write this I am carrying my department issue Glock 22 full sized pistol inside the waist band. It’s no problem at all but may be a bit large for a small woman. She won’t have problem Glock 26 or S&W 640.
Mike
M&P Shield9.. ’nuff said. My step father has one and you want go wrong any which way. Small but solid holding, pointable as they get and sufficient firepower.
I tend to avoid .380ACP also; though modern ammo may have brought it up into the viable range (compared to 9mm of 30 years ago).
But this discussion is for a CCW gun, no?
That probably rules out the “duty gun” group. I qualified using my (first gen) Walther P99 (.40S&W — the only .40 in the entire class) — but it’s too large for CCW (besides being hard to buy [holster] for); I finally found an external paddle that takes it, but isn’t really concealed. So I ended up with a Taurus Millenium G2 in 9mm with a Sneaky Pete…
Anyone,
From what I can gather, one can address just about any subject in these blogs, even though it has nothing to do whatsoever with the subject of the current report.
Let me toss this one into the ring. Is anyone out there familiar with the QB58FC rifle in .177 caliber? They are also available in .22 caliber, but am not interested in that one, only the .177. Could it be a FWB 300S for the common man? It is a beautiful little rifle, the only question is, will it shoot accurately.
Bugbuster; I have heard of it but haven’t shot one. But, I did a quick search and found the below listed information about them.
“The QB58FC is an interesting, rarely-available single-shot side lever air rifle that’s fun to use. Muzzle velocity spec. is 750 fps in .177 and 580 fps in .22 caliber – with medium weight (7.9 / 14.3 Grain) pellets.
This is the top model in the QB58 range, including such upgrades as fiber optic sights and well executed checkering on the hard wood stock.
It features an automatic “anti-bear trap” device that is disengaged using the red button under the forearm.
The rear iron sights are adjustable for windage and elevation.
NOTE THAT THIS AIR RIFLE HAS A SHORT COMPRESSION CHAMBER. THIS MEANS THAT IT’S BEST SUITED FOR USE WITH OPEN SIGHTS, RED DOT SIGHTS OR SHORT SCOPES SUCH AS THE LEAPERS’ BUGBUSTER. MOST REGULAR LENGTH SCOPES WILL TEND TO INTERFERE WITH PELLET LOADING AND ARE NOT RECOMMENDED.”
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the reply! I guess I should have been a little more specific in my inquiry. Actually I already have one, actually three of them. I was just looking for information from someone who already has one and their thoughts on the rifle, the accuracy and any other useful information. I have some useful information on them myself if any one is interested.
Bugbuster
I dont have one but still definatly interested in info about them.
Gunfun 1
There is only one distributor of these rifles that I am aware of, I ran across it by accident one day while ordering some replacement parts for an old TS 45. I was very impressed when they finally arrived. It is a lot of rifle for $ 89.99 plus shipping. The downside is that their accuracy is only guaranteed to be less than 1.25″ CTC at 10 meters, certainly nothing to write home about. From what I have seen so far however, with the proper pellet, they should be capable of much better. Time will tell.
To date, I have only put 260 pellets through four of them, I sent one of the original ones back for a replacement due mainly to a severe case of barrel rise. It was shooting 5″ to 6″ high on average at 10 meters with the rear sight fully depressed, unacceptable. I also had three malfunctions with this particular rifle within a span of approximately 75 shots. I now have the three of them roughed in at 10 meters with open sights. The next step will be to mount my 3-9X32 mm compact scope, which is in a one piece cantilever mount (necessary for proper eye relief) on each one and determine which pellet works best accuracy wise.
This phase of testing may take awhile since winter is fast approaching (outdoors, it feels like it has already arrived) and I do not have access to an indoor range of sufficient depth, preferably 25 yards. As you may well know, it is no fun shooting springers in sub freezing temperatures and even less fun attempting to load them with frozen fingers especially ones with fixed barrels.
Bugbuster
Without me searching the guns do you know if they have the recoil system like the 300s and the 54 Air King?
And when you say it could be the 300 for the common man do you mean that it looks like one as in a copy of the 300s or that they are possibly a bargain for the price and do not resemble a 300s.
Gunfun 1
This rifle is not recoilless as is a FWB 300S (I wasn’t aware that it was) or RWS 54, it does have a very nice wooden stock with checkering and fiber optic sights. The steel hood over the front sight is a nice touch also. It is a medium powered side lever springer which is very easy to cock, has a unique anti bear trap device and is a pleasure to shoot. It is a lot of rifle for the money. It resembles a 300 or RWS 52 (because of the stock) only in looks, mainly because it is a side lever.
Bugbuster
It sounds like a cool gun.
And the 300s and the 54 Air King have a rail system. When the gun is fired it slides backwards about a half inch or so.
The person shooting the gun feels nothing.
Gunfun 1,
In my opinion,it is not a “cool” gun, it is a “handsome” gun, I am somewhat familiar with with rail systems even though I have never owned or shot an air rifle which had one!
My three (3) most powerful air rifles are (1) RWS 460 mag .22 cal.,(2) RWS 48 .177 cal. and (3) a Xisico XS46U .177 cal. with a gas piston upgrade, am I supposed to feel recoil, I haven’t noticed any yet. If you really want to experience recoil, try firing a Mc Millian, 24 pound .50 Caliber BMG bolt action rifle with a Harris muzzle brake, with this gun , you will learn the meaning of recoil!
Bugbuster
I did my share of big guns when I was growing up plus shot guns.
I’m tired of getting beat up when I shoot. That’s why I do my darnedest to get a smooth shooting air gun what ever it may be and whatever I have to do to make it that way.
My brother and some of my friends still shot the big gun stuff. I’m happy with my.177 hmr and my airguns.
Is the air Venturi tune kit that’s in the test rifle similar to the vortex pro glide kits ?
Ie: inner and outer rear guide, top hat, and thrust washer.
JohnG10,
Sounds like the same or similar.
B.B.
Do you realise that the cheapest we can get hold of a Diana 34 here in the UK is £285…..$400
I’m seriously considering grey importing Diana’s, being in the EU there are no import taxes….and I can get them from Germany for £140….
No excuse except greed from the importers
Dom,
Sounds like an opportunity, but don’t forget support.
B.NB.
I can’t see a sole official importer, however, those that bring them in are all amazingly priced compared with US and German outlets
Maybe the concern that has recently bought Mayer and Grammelspecher will put a UK RRP in place…they must be losing sales as they are rarely bought here.
Here’s one for you BB, have you noticed the transfer port on the 34 is taken from the centre of the cylinder…but exits offset?
Running through an inefficient dog leg?
We have a guy over here who fills the 280 (same action..just compact) Transfer ports and redrills them straight, allowing an inch off the mainspring.
It seems the efficiency of a central tp is lost (and then some) by this arrangement.
Dom,
I’ve seen that in other guns, as well. I don’t think it’s as effective as having just a central port, but it eliminates the hump between the spring tube and barrel.
B.B.
The point being it actually seems a lot less efficient than having a straight through offset port too!
The guy at Airguntech finds an extra 10% muzzle energy by simply filling and redrilling straight through…allowing the spring to be reduced and the piston to be lightened…making a much lighter cocking effort and sweeter firing cycle
BB,
I was disappointed to read that the Hornady black bb’s are not produced here. I was hoping the increase in price over Daisy and Crosman bb’s meant that they were produced in the USA.
I’ll still try them. Anyone venturing to bring a new bb into the market deserves some opportunity to prove their new product.
Les
Hello BB and Fellow Airgunners.
I want to add my experience with the Falcon 7.33gr pellet. These work excellent for me when shooting at 500fps as per the law in Canada. They don’t seem to perform as well in a gun that can spit them out at 900fps and over. I think the all lead construction, along with a thinner wall combine to make them unstable in high powered guns such as your Diana 34P. These are my observations based on shooting my 500fps guns, and those of a friend who has a PAL (possession and accusation licence). The PAL gives one “permission” to shoot full powered airguns, and fire arms. Imagine being back in grade eight where you held up your hand before being allowed to use the washroom. A good thing we in Canada have politicians looking out for our best interest. It truly gives us a glowing feeling of security not having to worry about making ones own decisions either.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
I bet you’re right about the power. I hadn’t thought of that, but the loose fit had me thinking.
Thanks,
B.B.
Sad to say, some parts of the USA are just like that too………..or worse.
Mike
Titus Groan,
Sir, do I detect a note of sarcasm in your post? If you really believe that registration leads to confiscation, you must be paranoid, right?
Let me share a little anecdote with you which I believe you will find rather humorous, I did. Many years ago, obviously, an acquaintance of mine who was a Canadian citizen was invited by a mutual friend to attend a machine gun shoot here in the U.S.. At that time he was the proud owner of a Boys .55 caliber anti-tank rifle that had been converted to .50 BMG to avoid the $200 tax for owning a destructive device (any weapon firing a projectile over .5″ bore diameter is classified as a destructive device in the U.S.). That was then, 1996 or earlier. I have no clue what the laws were were in Canada at that point in time except that I am positive that they were better than they are now, at least for gun owners, I am sure that the criminals love the way things are now. Anyway, to make a long story short, obviously, when crossing an international border, you have to declare if you have any weapons. When my friend replied in the affirmative that he had in fact a “boys” rifle in his vehicle the border agent “requested to see it”. In case that you have never seen an anti-tank rifle in the flesh, so to speak, they are quite large, actually this particular one is one of the more diminutive ones! When the agent saw it, he remarked ” it looks like a man’s rifle to me”! End of story, this is the truth!
BB,
If we take a barrel of an avanti champion 499 and lube it to sort of create a full lenth barrel chocking, what i mean to say is sort of create a layer of some sort of goo so that the bullet will i mean bb will fit more perfectly i mean the bullet will have a more snug fit leading to greater accuracy but possibly lower velocity what i mean to say is that their will be more contact between the bb and the barrel leading to greater accuracy i think the perfect bore of of the 499 combined with its super smooth bb(precision ground shot) is its secret and what i prupose will(perhaps just a hint) increase its accuracy further what i suggest is a mixture of wax ,pellgun oil and jb bore cleaning compound to make a lining of about ase thin ase possible othervise the bb will not role down it self please tell if my vision(if i may call it so)is somthing or tell me i am stupid
Any thoughts bb? Or anyone
Utkarshgupta,
I don’t think that will work. In fact, I think it will harm the accuracy a lot. I would not try it in my gun.
I have no solid basis for saying this — it’s just my gut feeling.
B.B.
BB,well i think some things dont work out so well after all
To be honest i too did not have any high expectations
Gunfun 1
Whoops, I guess we’re out of room here!
Personally, I probably never fired anything more powerful than a 30-06 Springfield until I was 30 years old and have never been recoil sensitive. I may not have enjoyed it, but did what I needed to do at the time. I do agree with you however about not embracing punishing recoil and I believe I am about 16 years your senior. I am getting wimpy in my old age and much less tolerant of recoil and just about everything else for that matter.
If what you say is true, you will love the QB58FC, check it out, it is a beautiful rifle!
What is a .177 hmr, I am not familiar with that caliber?
Google will tell you more than you want to know about the .17 HMR which is a rim fire based on the .22 Mag. rim fire…
Thanks for the reply,I use Google and other search engines all the time for research. Actually, I am somewhat familiar with the .17 HMR but not a “.177 hmr” that GF1 had mentioned in his last post. I do not keep as current on new calibers and such as I once did and figured that this may be something new. It must have just been a typographical error.