by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Haenel 100: Part 1
Daisy number 12 model 29: Part 1
Daisy number 12 model 29: Part 2
The Haenel 100 BB pistol is a pre-war 50-shot repeater.
Daisy Number 12 Model 20 is a vintage BB gun.
This report covers:
- Haenel 100 first
- Precision Ground Shot
- The test
- Haenel accuracy
- Daisy model 29 accuracy
- First target
- The turning point!
- Target two
- Conclusions
I am combining two reports today — the Haenel model 100 BB pistol and the Daisy number 12 model 29 BB gun. Please don’t get confused. If you have been following the series on the Daisy 29, you know that something good must have happened for me to do this special report. Indeed it did! Let’s get started.
Haenel 100 first
The first task was to chronograph the Haenel pistol. You may recall that the Blue Book of Airguns informs us that the Haenel 100 uses 4.4 mm lead balls, so I started with them.
Lead balls shot very slowly from the pistol. The slowest was 90 f.p.s. and the fastest was only 123 f.p.s. So I didn’t stay with them. I knew that Avanti Precision Ground Shot also measures 4.4 mm, nominally, so I decided to try some of them.
Precision Ground Shot
These averaged 139 f.p.s. in the Haenel. While that’s not that fast, it’s certainly better than the heavier lead balls, and the consistency was very good. The velocity spread went from a low of 136 to a high of 142f.p.s. That’s just a 6 f.p.s. spread! If the pistol will shoot, this ammo should be good in it. However, I have to mention there were 2 double-feeds in this 10-shot string whose velocity I did not include in the average. The numbers for them were 118 and 114 f.p.s.
The test
I shot seated from 10 feet (remember the submarine captain?). I rested my shooting arm on the UTG monopod in my special way that’s as steady as shooting off a sandbag. And now you want to know how I did?
Haenel accuracy
I put 7 shots into 1.566-inches at 10 feet. The shots were all high, but fairly well centered on the bull. Again, you must remember how much room that sub captain had.
Within these shots there were also 2 double feeds that didn’t hit the target paper and probably added at least one inch to what’s on the paper, if not more. So the Haenel model 100 BB pistol isn’t that accurate. It’s more of an oddity to look at and think about. At least now you know!
The shots are fairly centered but high. There are 4 shots in that group on the right. But at least 4 BBs didn’t even hit the paper! Those were double-feeds and you can see a trace of one of them that nicked the top right edge of the paper.
Daisy model 29 accuracy
Now I shifted my attention to the Daisy number 12 model 29 BB gun. We have already done two reports on this one, and we know the velocity and the accuracy — or lack of it. But reader Fido3030 had coaxed me into cleaning the barrel, which was indeed rusty as he predicted. I didn’t get it completely smooth, but it is a lot better than it was. That Ballistol really attacks rust!
I shot this one using the same monopod rest as before. And the shooting was at 10 feet. I didn’t want to hit the walls with BBs and you will remember from Part 2 that this BB gun is not very accurate. But how is it with a clean barrel?
First target
Knowing the gun shoots high and to the left, I drew a fine bead at the 6-o’clock position on the bull. If you don’t know what that means, please read this. With this hold and sight picture I was able to put 10 shots into 2.929-inches at 10 feet. That sounds horrible, which of course it is, but compared to what the gun was doing before I cleaned the barrel, it’s actually an improvement!
The Daisy model 29 still hits high and left, despite cleaning the barrel. This is a better group than before cleaning. The last 2 shots were loaded before cocking and made the hole in the bull and the one above and closest to the left from it.
The turning point!
I told you at the start of today’s report that there was something special. Here it comes. The last 2 shots in my 10-shot string were shot using a different loading procedure than before. Reader Fido3030 (again!) asked me in Part 1 whether I loaded the BB before or after cocking the gun. I told him I didn’t think it mattered, but that I cocked the gun first, then dropped the BB down the muzzle. Now I wondered what would happen if I did it the other way?
So I did it the other way for the last 2 shots in the first group, and the first one actually hit the bull! The next shot that was also the last in the group landed higher and not even an inch to the left. That made me wonder whether there actually is a correct loading procedure for loading this BB gun. I vowed to find out.
Target two
For this next target I loaded the BB first (still shooting the Precision Ground Shot) and then cocked the gun. The first 4 shots went into a group that measures 0.376-inches between centers. Then shot number 5 landed to the left, opening the group to 1.632-inches. Until that shot I felt like I was shooting a Daisy 499 Champion, until I remembered that I was shooting at 10 feet — not 16. But the difference between this target and the first one is so dramatic that I think this has to be the correct loading procedure for a single shot like this one. And learning that made my day.
There are 4 shots in the group above the dime. But shot 5 went left. I think this is the correct way to load this BB gun.
Conclusions
At the end of the day, neither of the subject BB guns is very accurate. Shooting them requires learning to live with their quirks and adapt, but that’s part of the mystique. Both are funky enough to be highly intriguing. Guns may come and go in my collection, but I believe I’ll keep both of these around, simply because I like looking at them and holding them.
Can’t do the holding and look at them thing.
Got to shoot them if I own them
I really like hearing about all aspects of airgunning, most especially the history, but as for me, if I do not enjoy shooting it, it will likely be owned by someone else shortly.
A big thanks to Fido for saving the honor of a vintage Daisy and reminding me there are no dumb questions and to B.B. for having an open enoughmind to try a different technique!
What a difference!
Too bad about the Haenel but this test is evidence that a bad group isn’t necessarily the kiss of death.
I wonder about the heanel barrel too, the crown, its just as important on a bb smoothbore. That and sorting those wild precision ground diameters we recently saw. If somebody wanted to shoot the pistol more seriously they might do good by sorting and finding the size that gets them rolling the same. That’s probably why the lead shot, though extremely slow, would have made a different group completely by the heavier bottom rolling. Not to bother, but id like to see you check the crown and if wacky turn it and try the precision shot again, if the crown is good, just try one group with the lead shot, it is what the gun was made to shoot after all.
I can imagine a German submarine captain shooting at a newspaper print of Winston Churchill in his cramped cabin, so in this case the accuracy would do just fine for plinking at der Englisher swine hunt.
Interesting that the combo of cock 1st., load 2nd., worked. Curiosity peaked, I pulled out the manual for the 499. Sure enough, it said cock 1st. and load 2nd., the same as you tried last. For me anyways, I really found myself wanting you to do a 3rd. group the same way just to confirm your findings. hint 😉
Since the 499 safety does not automatically engage, I figure that the load 1st., cock 2nd., would the norm. While the Red Ryder is not a muzzle loader, it’s safety operates the same way. Anyone has yet to explain the logic there. For me, I like that it does not.
I shoot the 499 both ways and often switch between the 2 methods throughout a 10 group. Think watching TV, pauses, distractions and plinking across 24′ in the living room into a target box/trap. Casual plinking.
I will give both methods a earnest try and see what happens. It does not make sense that it would, but who knows?
Chris,
I think you have that reversed. Terrible accuracy with cock 1st, load 2nd, but merely mediocre accuracy with load 1st, cock 2nd. That is, if I read B.B.’s ninth and tenth paragraphs correctly.
Michael
Michael’
You are correct, I did get it reversed, Thank you. So,…my test and BB’s agreed, though mine produced less dramatic improvement. Thanks again,….man I hate that when I screw up on a post like that. ;(
Well,…I did give the load 1st. vs load 2nd. an earnest try. 4x ten shot groups. 1st. load was 30 and 26mm. 2nd. load was 32 and 31mm.. Avg. at 24′ is around 21-23mm., so I am a little off today. Groups were shot, load 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd. 30,32,26,31. So,…no real trend but the load 1st did edge out the load 2nd.
At any rate, fun test. 50 now and 63 later outside. Unheard of for an Ohio late November. Heading out to some 50 yds. and some 25 and 30yds. for sure. Yesterday was nicer, but family stuff trumped shooting,..as it should.
Bitterly cold here and I looked up rainfall amounts last night.
It’s been raining since Monday and the total since is about 12″
Reb,
You guys have been getting pounded. As for me and today,..I stepped out a little bit ago to do a chore or two and was met with a steady light rain. It is not now. That 6pm forecast of rain hitting was a bit off. Very 🙁 I am on the leading edge of a big front and do want to risk getting all set up and having it rain all over my “babies”. Oh well,….onto Plan B,…just got to figure out what that is. 41′ indoors I guess and maybe rip into the 92FS finally. Bummer.
Yeah, I wound up spending the night at my brothers and kinda going stir crazy but if I go home I’ll just be alone.
Reb,
Well, it could be worse. You could have a nagging wife or girl friend that won’t let you mess with your airguns and costing you an arm and a leg. Stay busy.
Been there, so far none of the girlfriends were worth the hassle past a couple years so never tried the other.
Reb,
Well,…don’t give up. The “right one” may come along. Maybe there is a dating site for airgunners? Heck,…there is a site for everything else! Why not? 😉
As for the weather, that front is all the back down to Texas last I looked. So yea, soaking rain is coming. Take care and stay dry!
Funny you say that, I actually filled one form out where it asked what we could do together as a leisure activity that “we could go fishing or maybe just shoot pellets guns in the back yard”. And had an old acquaintance show up from Florida to assess the situation, although she wouldn’t own up to it.
It’s still here too! If it dumps on y’all way up there like it is on us you’ll be snowed in til next winter!
The forecast calls for a break at noon and another at 2:00.
I’m ready to ride my bike again but not in this mess.
Howdy Reb, Have a t-shirt that sez:
My ol’ lady, yes,
My dog, maybe,
My Harley, NEVER!
I feel ya.
Shoot/ride safe,
Beaz
I’ve seen that T-shirt before! Amazing the wide variety of T-shirts people wear to the state fair! I think the bald spot & beer gut ones were my favorite.
There were a few that I never got to the girlfriend stage that coulda made the cut if I just coulda reeled em in.
Chris, the rain from this front has actually been a slow and steady soaking rain but the ground was already saturated and the creeks full but a week straight can drive an outdoors person nuts. We don’t need it therefore it’s all going to Austin and San Antonio then dumping into the gulf from whence it came.
B.B.,
I know that the 499 can be shot either cock 1st or load 1st and that the manual says to cock first. Furthermore, I’ve never checked to see if one way made for better accuracy than the other.
However, as a primarily indoor shooter I have always loaded my 499 first (muzzle pointed up) and then cocked it second (muzzle pointed in the direction of the target and backstop). It also simply feels unsafe to cock a muzzle loader and then load it. Would YOU do that if the muzzle loader in question were a Kentucky Rifle?
Michael
I’ve only had revolvers in black powder but have often wondered how many injuries were suffered by civil war veterans loading a rifle with an ember still hot enough to ignite the charge.
Reb
I just texted you info from the tracking number on those grips and 1399 stock.
Let me know if you get the text.
Got the text and responded.
Thanks for the headsup!
The rep swears they couldn’t have gotten the wrong address but I know better. They put $150 worth of HIPac order in someone else’s box in the other half of this complex. The other person turned it into the office who recognized my name and called me from across town to get it before they closed for the weekend. Had me pedaling my butt off!
Reb
Yep got your text.
And there ain’t no nice way to put it other than that’s bull when they don’t deliver right.
I moved out to this place and had trouble at first. USPS was ok. But UPS and FedEx couldn’t figured out where I lived from one week to the next.
That’s one thing that definitely sets me off. They give info on the tracking number but your setting there waiting for them to deliver and you don’t get your package that day.
Had to raise a little you know what. But so far so good. Got some pellets and my wife’s birthday present that’s suppose to be delivered from FedEx tomorrow from my Pyramyd AIR order. I hope I didn’t speak to soon. Well that’s what my tracking number say’s anyway. We’ll see.
I dropped the ball this time myself. I wrote the tracking number down but didn’t put it in my phone, then went into holiday mode and let it catch me slipping.
Reb
Yep you got stay on top of them.
Makes me wonder in my case how they couldn’t find the house.
Especially when they had my phone number. And you would think they got some kind of GPS now days.
Darwin says if you don’t adapt you don’t survive.
Reb
True.
I’ve got an uncle who is retired from the postal service and some of the stories he tells are scary.
He told one about a young go- getter that could do everything better than the old farts so when they saw the duffle bag of brass locks coming down the conveyor belt the veterans stepped aside and let him try to catch the200#+ bag by himself.
“Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and vigor!”
Reb
But who had to pick the bag of brass and the guy up off the floor.
😉
I’ll bet he didn’t feel much like a winner!
Makes me wonder if they had to stuff his guts back in first!
🙂
Michael,
Good points. Your comment eluded to what I said above. Load first and cock second seems safer if something should happen to “let go” at the wrong time. And, as it turns out,…seems to be a bit more accurate. Ok,….well,..a (lot) more accurate in the case of the model 29.
Chris, I’m not sure how it got started and don’t want to sound like a grammar Nazi but the word you’re looking for is actually alluded. With the root word being allude.
Reb,
I just looked both up,..and,…you are correct. 🙂 I am a bit of a grammer nut and punctuation nut as well. Though,….from my post, I doubt anyone really educated in such matters would agree. Thanks!
It sounds right but education is our most powerful tool.
Chris and Reb,
Not too shabby for a guy who shoots air guns only, not powder-burners. But I suppose before I get too full of myself I ought to remember my grandmother saying, “Don’t get cocky now, even a blind pig stumbles upon a truffle now and then!”
Michael
Denver airgunners,
I just received this plea from Bruce.
I may be barking up the wrong tree and I don’t know enough to write a blog but I am trying to learn all that I can about my newfound serious interest in airgunning.
My problem is finding people, places,or any kind of groups that have air gunning activities in Denver. My only source locally is the 19 year old clerk at the sporting goods desk in Walmart who has never shot an air gun in his life ! Is there anything you can do to help me in my quest? The Internet( I just recently discovered it! ) has made it possible for me to begin to see the wide world of airgunning and I am hooked! But, it would be really nice to talk and and see things and activities in person. You know, the human touch!
I hope you can respond, I would really appreciate it!
Thanks,
Bruce
Can some of you please help him?
B.B.
Bruce,
Welcome to air gunning! In Ohio, I have found few things myself. Keep at it and don’t give up. This blog is great ( a massive understatement) and you will learn a lot. We have a lot of very smart and resourcefull people here and I am sure something will turn up to help you. Best of luck and keep coming back. Chris
Thanks for the ” Welcome”! You would think that in a town this size(1.5 mil.+) there would be something going on in public, not just behind closed doors in someone’s dark basement clandestine shooting range! I guess I haven’t found it yet.
Bruce,
Have you contacted the NRA? No doubt they can put you in touch with some 10-meter competition happening in the Denver area. After all, the USA Shooting headquarters where our Olympians train is in Colorado Springs.
B.B.
Bruce,
Welcome to the blog.
Please email me, klentz4. “AT”. comcast.net
Kevin
The best I could find in Denver was an indoor pistol range where I rented a .38 and bought their rounds.
But that’s when I was stationed there at Lowry back in ’87-’88.
Of course I wasn’t trying to find an airgun range, just wanted to shoot.
B B B,
Remember, there is untold amounts of airguns sold each year. So,..they, and their owners, are out there.
You mentioned “newfound serious interest”. What are you shooting and your experience thus far?
I like your,.. “someone’s dark basement clandestine shooting range”. Paint’s quite the picture! 😉 40W bare bulb, spider webs everywhere, dirt floor, mouse in the corner,..or perhaps a rat. Then,..on the other hand,..”clandestine” might suggest more of a James Bond 007 type set up. 🙂
I pictured it as a speakeasy, complete with secret knock and peep door.
🙂
I took an hour today just trying to type out a little bit about me to answer you but then___ when I pushed the send button the whole thing disappeared! Phone said “Fatal Error”! No record that I ever created it, just gone. As u might notice I’m not good at typing yet
B B B,
(No reply needed). I have a newer “dumb phone” and I do not text. If I do,..the answer is yes, no or ok. I am pretty computer dumb but a laptop is much nicer for typing. I got big hands and all those little phone keys and my hands just do not get along. Even with a laptop, I have had post messages “vaporize” into thin air. Quite frustrating to say the very least.
At anyrate, (welcome again to airgunning) and chime in when you get things better figured out or try something other than a phone. Quite a few here use ’em to post,…just not me. Chris
Chris
I’m still working on trying to send back to the blog. Maybe this time
Looks like that worked.
When I was new here I just typed in “airgun blog” & sifted through the results, once you get here save the site to favorites and cross your fingers, now I have an icon on y phone and it seems to work alright most of the time.
The hard part was setting up the account and avatar
Welcome from me as well. And I’m in the same boat in Massachusetts, there’s a frequent event in New York but thats still 3 hours or more away. Other then that its rod n gun club bar and shootin range, that would let me shoot air rifles on the range but its a 150$ a year first year and 100$ a year after that. It might be worth it with a couple friends to go with but my only serious airgunning buddy moved to Arizona, one other guy is mildly interested but not gonna come out often enough if at all, hes almost 70 and quite a whiskey hermit. Maybe if I just go ahead and join the range club I can convert some guys, but my visit to check it out sure brought some raised eyebrows…
I feel his pain. Here in Indiana there isn’t much airgunning done. Been driving into southern Michigan to shoot. Some good folks that have organized benchrest and field target competitions. Keep looking you’ll find some like minded people.
All,
Above I mentioned, that since it is raining, I “might” tear into the Beretta 92FS pellet pistol. Well, I did.
Holy Cow!… and a few other unmentionable expletives that I shall not elaborate on. I had exploded views and even a video or two. 95% torn down and lots of phone pics for the record. All I can say is,…..”Hat’s off” for anyone that can do one of these in there sleep. I am pretty sure I will get it back together. Insane detail and LOTS of parts and springs and ball bearings and levers and widgets and levery looking “thingys”,….. 😉 You get the idea.
Still need to figure out what does what and what needs replaced. Wish me luck. I will need it it!
In other words, not for the faint of heart and those with little mechanical knowledge. I am pretty good on both. Chris
An update:
Well,…all parts are cleaned and sub-assemblies are re-assembled in the frame(s) dry. Got it about 90% figured out. The tuff part is figuring out what is normal wear marks and what is excessive wear.
The design is quite impressive for a CO2 pistol. The frame casting is quite intricate as is all the minuscule parts. The only thing that is a drop-in component is the valve. But,..it too comes apart. That is tomorrow.
I found it to be surprisingly dirty,..despite being “babied” in every way. I have torn down a TX 200 several times. The TX is a kid’s LEGO set compared to the 92FS. Stay tuned,….. 🙂
You’re a betteran than me!
I tore down my 1008 Crosman and got lost right off the bat! Of course the 1008 isn’t near the same incentive to get going again. But I shoulda just left it alone.
Reb,
I would have guessed that (you) are the far more experienced service person. In fact, I have commented several times that I was amazed at your knowledge and experience with air guns.
I have often chuckled at your “adventures” in tear downs and when you mention for example, “the tiny spring went flying across the room”. Or, that “I heard a tiny ball bearing hit the floor, but have no clue where it went”. I had both happen during the “adventure”. All parts accounted for and I can look back and laugh now,…but at the time,…not so funny.
On tear downs in general or for anyone thinking of doing one….it can be quite daunting,…even a bit terrifying. But,..do your homework as best you can, study things as they come apart and in the end you will be surprised. And learn alot. The flip side to that coin is that you may end up with a basket case of parts, or, get it together and it still does not work, or, it works but now something has become un-safe. That last part was the “disclaimer” section. 😉 Oy yea,..be carefull,..you got shoot your eye out! Gotta’ give that one to Ralphy’s Mom…..
I usually search for anything I can find on the gun I’m gonna tear into and study all I’ve found for quite some time before undergoing the process but that’s still not firsthand experience, a little mechanical knowledge and lotta patience also come in handy as well as knowing your limits and not pushing outta your comfort zone.
This blog and a few others are great resources but it still takes two steady hands and a sane mind to get the job done.
A little humor hides some tears and is more endearing than complaining about something involving loss of control.
I’m used to fixing any problems myself regardless of what it is because I don’t have the money to pay someone else to do it for me that’s why I became a mechanic to start with but most of that is no longer safe or even feasible for me in my current state but I’m addicted to tinkering and I can still handle most guns without dropping them.
These airguns are fun to shoot, fairly inexpensive and legal in most locales.
If I really try hard maybe I’ll be able to get a payday or two along with an education and have something other than fishing to do in my retirement.
Definitely couldn’t pull it off without having a Buncha good friends here!
Thanks Y’all!
Reb,
Hang in there “Bud”. All things aside, you really impress me with some of your knowledge and input when it comes to airguns.
As for comfort level, I was way out of mine several times. It was like a roller coaster ride. I fired what I had left of eight 8 shot clips and had a few “issues”, so I may not be outa’ the woods yet on the 92. I am out of .177’s since when the 92 crashed, I gave the tin of .177’s to the neighbor when he ran out. Will have to wait until the weekend before I can get more. I am just hoping it breaks in. If not, it will back be into it sometime in the future. Not looking forward to that with all the moly in there now,…that stuff gets everywhere!
Just had a nice shooting session with my Edge Mini-Sniper. Using JSB Exact 8.4 grain pellets, I shot a 10 shot 0.8″ CTC group at 50 yards. A more typical group was a little over 1″. I am definitely going to have to find an 18″ barrel.
RR,
Nice! I have had 7 or 8 or 9 same or better,…(not much),…but never 10. Way to go.
Yea,…that is a “nice shooting session”. My 50, and 25, and 30 got rained out. Glad to here someone got out today.
RR
What you going to do with that 18″ barrel?
A Edge on steroids? Sounds like dangerous things are about to happen. In a good way of course.
😉
Replace the 12″ barrel. That will greatly help efficiency. Right now I am at a little under 12 FPE. With an 18″ barrel I will probably go over 12 FPE. It could also help me consistently get sub 1″ groups at 50 yards.
What I did to increase power is Lloyd made a “spacer” piece that increased the volume of the regulated air used per shot. Right now it is shooting JSBs at just under 800 FPS. With an 18″ barrel I expect the FPS to go up to around 850 FPS. The shot count is down to 25 per fill, but it does not take much pumping to fill that little tank.
All of the modifications I have done to this Edge can be removed and restore it to original sporter configuration. That has been my goal with it from the beginning. I want to see just how far I can take it. Right now the trigger pull is somewhere around 8 ounces with zero overtravel. 🙂
RR,
Not much to say on PCP’s, but on the trigger,….is not 8oz. a little on the insane light side? I adjusted the pull on the TX out from factory to 3/4 turns out. Very light, but no measurements. What I found was,… that it would “surprise” me, as when I was focusing on hold, trigger feel, eye relief or any number of things. In fact,…I took it back in 3/8 of a turn. Over my year here, I get the sense that a super light trigger is not your friend. You think otherwise?
Mostly it will depend on the shooter. Most of the air rifles I have owned in the past have been 10 meter air rifles. Most often I will adjust their triggers to where I can feel the trigger without it going off and then when I think shoot, it does. Actually, this trigger is kind of on the heavy side. My Izzy trigger is the same way. BB has tried the trigger on my Edge before. He does not like it as it has almost no first stage travel either.
Now on something that I would be hunting with I would indeed want a heavier pull, but even then I would prefer it to be around a pound. I can actually live with some pretty heavy triggers as long as they break cleanly and are not a creepy, crawly thing. The trigger pull on my 1906 BSA is pretty heavy, but it breaks clean with no creep. Pretty remarkable considering it is a single stage.
RR,
Interesting. I spent all Summer lightening up my triggers with the same thought,…(think shoot,..and it shoots). Despite the above mentioned personal observations,…late in the summer,..I was finding that the extra bit of pull pressure actually helped during the final “steady”.
As I said, it was late in the Summer,..only a few weekends ago,…really Fall, that I began to see this. At any rate,..I will play with it and see. Each to their own and whatever works for you. Just thought I would share some of my newbie observations. Chris
Newbie observations are good. A fresh set of eyes often can see something others overlook or take for granted without thinking about it.
As we both and many others have pointed out, trigger preferences can vary from person to person. It can also vary from rifle to rifle. Mostly shooting target, A very light, crisp trigger is ideal to me. On a hunter I am going to want a touch of first stage with at least one pound pull with a nice crisp break on the second stage.
If I am not mistaken BB likes about a half inch of first stage with a clean break of about one to two pounds. Overall that is a very good setup for most situations. It allows you to feel the trigger and bring it to the fire position without an accidental discharge, most of the time anyway.
There is nothing wrong with how you are setting the triggers on your air rifles. In fact, that is probably how I would have them set as I would be looking at them for other than target. Just be sure to take care if you have the opportunity to shoulder a nice ten meter rifle. 😉
RR
That’s pretty good with that 12″ barrel. And I bet the 18″ barrel could give you more than 50 fps over the 12″ barrel.
I got a question about the barrels and the Edge frame. Is the barrel flush to the end cap or is it up inside the frame some with the 12″ barrel?
The Talon SS 12″ barrel is back in the frame about 3 or so inches but when you use a 18″ barrel its flush to the end cap. In other words no silencing.
I have thought about getting a Edge but I wondered about the barrel legnth. If the 12″ barrel is inside the frame then I just may get one eventually.
The barrel is recessed inside the frame which is about the same length as the Talon SS. An 18″ barrel will come to the end of the frame as in the TSS.
If you look at the pictures of an Edge carefully, you can see where the frame ends and that the front sight is mounted on a tubular extension. On mine I have machined a baffle system to fit in that extension that makes it VERY quiet. All you hear is the hammer slap and the pellet hitting the target. The next time I go in, I am going to reduce the slap some.
I enjoy shooting my Edge very much, almost as much as my BSA. You do need to keep in mind though that it is not a long range shooter. As it comes from the box, 25 yards is pushing it, much like with the FWB 300. Yes, you can lob them out there and get some pretty nice groups under ideal conditions. I do believe that an 18″ barrel will be an improvement, but 50 yards is a very long shot for .177. Period.
You keep dreaming about that Edge. Who knows. 😉
RR
Yep I did see that sight extension. Looks like its held on with two setscrews on top. Maybe on the bottom also? No picture showing the bottom so I can’t tell.
If you get that 18″ barrel let me know how it works out.
Curses! The barrel may have to wait a little longer. There is a gun collector auction next month and they have some real nice flintlocks for sale. I can see myself being very poor very quickly.
RR
Now what you mean there.
I always seem to have more wants than money.
I’ve noticed with my sons 499, that I purchased this summer will not allow the BB to roll down the muzzle unless I cock 1st. I’ve tried it multiple times and if I don’t cock the gun the BB never makes it to the magnet. Maybe something changed? the gun is still more accurate than him or I for the time being.
replace “muzzle” with “barrrel”
RPM,
That gun may have an ultra-tight barrel that needs a place for air tom exit at the bottom, which is why it must be cocked first.
B.B.
That’s kinda what I was thinking.
Awesome! I wish I could find a barrel like that for my 99!
B.B.,
I’m thankful for you as a resource. Ready to go way off topic?
I’m trying to value an Evans NEW MODEL Carbine (28 round magazine not 34 round). Only a few rifles have sold on gunbroker the last year and no carbines have even been listed. I have Fladerman’s Guide but it’s outdated and even when fresh was hit and miss.
My Evans carbine has all the parts and cycles. Bore is clean, no rust, no pitting, but not very shiny. Wood has a few dings but in overall good shape. Only 10-15% of the finish remains on the metal. Bubba brazed?, soldered? a brass ring on the rear sight (homemade peep sight) and extended the front sight in the same crude manner. I believe someone could remove this work without damaging the original sights but it won’t be me.
Do you have any idea what this might be worth? Thanks.
kevin
Kevin,
Well, this doesn’t happen often, but this is a firearm I know nothing about. Maybe I’ve seen one in passing, but I never took notice of it.
So that is the quality of the info you are about to get from me.
I found this one listed for sale for $1,400. It seems to be a nice one. The seller says it is in nice condition, and it is a carbine. It does look nice.
http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/310/long/evans.html
Here is one listed at Buffalo Arms for $800, but I think it’s sold.
http://www.thebuffalotradingcompany.com/evans—new-model-repeating-rifle.html
And that is all I have.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you.
The Evans rifle and carbine were considered the ultimate Assault Rifle in their day because of firepower. Caliber and proprietary cartridge killed them after a short production run. They performed flawlessly for the US Army but were not issued a contract for production primarily because of the cartridge.
I missed the carbine listed by 19th Century Weapons in my research. Received an email that it sold over a year ago. MUCH nicer shape than mine.
What I really appreciate about your information is that I think either one of the sites you linked would be a better place to sell this evans carbine that gunbroker.
Thanks again.
kevin
A bit of help requested,
When considering the type of lubricants to reassemble the 92FS air pistol, I thought I remembered that you did not want to use moly grease on non-hardened parts, but rather grease or oil. Why? I thought I remembered reading that the moly would wear non-hardened parts. I searched lubricants here and turned up some good past articles but none that mentioned this particular item. Am I imagining something here that does not exist?
The 92FS pellet pistol does not seem to have any hardened parts, ( and there is a bunch of ’em), with the exception of a small “firing pin” and perhaps the valve stem.
Any ideas anyone? Thanks, Chris
I use 3% moly on just about everything with the exception of leather seals and haven’t noticed any problems but it is thick stuff and may slow thing’s down in colder climates,but I live in Texas and this winter is one of the coldest and wettest I can recall for a long way back.
Reb,
Thank you. It looks like moly will be the lube of choice.
Update:,… the tear down, check out and reassembly has turned out to be quite the obsessive project. I have not found anything that would indicate part replacement is needed. I even tore the valve down 100% and reassembled it. A small ball bearing (1/3 the size of a bb) must be balanced upon an even smaller spring, compressed and shoved in a hole in the safety lever. I have lost that bearing 3 times!!!
Each time, the screwdriver would slip off and the bearing would go flying off to parts unknown within the house. It’s in now. Despite a few other “tweeks”, I am going to put it back together and see what happens. This is starting not to be fun anymore…..;)
Once again, I used moly to get the safety back together on my 2240. It’s thick and tends to be really tacky at cooler temps, I liberally coated the spring and ball bearing and paid special attention to orientation so gravity was on my side.
I asked Gunfun and he said I should pull the trigger assembly, replace bearing first then spring.
It was a step back butuch easier than finding the stuff on the floor again.
Never seen a 92fs and not sure that would work for you especially if it’s anything like my basketcase 1008. I’ve still got the valve somewhere but decided it just wasn’t worth it.
You may have to backup though and look for an easier way to get it back in place though.
Good Luck!
Reb,
Well, the “saga” is over. After 4 attempts to put the 2 halves back together,(trying to keep springs, pins and other things in line with the other half),……Drum role please,……..It works!!!!! 🙂
I feel like I have been through a Marathon. Problems were safety slop, hammer slop, safety jammed, feed/rotation issues, problems with double action and eventually with single action. Not all in that order. I fired 8 flawless shots in single. What did I do? Well, pretty much just cleaned and re lubed everything. I did remove 1 roll pin that was responsible for hammer slop. It was not allowing the spring full travel. The safety slop was fixed with a shim. What was interesting was that it did not have trigger sear as you might think, but rather a series of levers and springs that in turn acted with a linkage pc. that acted with the hammer. The firing pin is actually in the safety lever. Good to have ‘er back up and running. I missed that loud POP!
Well, time to clean up a 3 day mess and of course, the obligatory icy beverages to celebrate. 😉
Glad you got it right!
I vowed not to open another pistol in the same two halves design after realizing that I wouldn’t be able to get it back together properly those are for the warranty repairman from here on.
Reb,
Well, when it’s out of warranty,…what have you got lose? I am still a bit puzzled as to why it had all the issues it had. I did put 3,000 shots through it. Not sure they are made for that. While a couple of areas were suspect, nothing really stood out. I will have to say that despite all the parts, it was/is pretty well made. While I have torn down no others, maybe that’s what it is like when they try to copy a firearm into a replica. At any rate,…glad it’s done. It’s been down several months.
I adopted the 1008 so I had no choice either but what I lost was the ability to get someone else to fix it.
Sounds a lot like the 1008!
My biggest problem was a small elliptical plastic piece that fell out of some unknown spot as I split the two halves.
Reb,
Well, I took it REAL slow at split time and did lots of “peaking” as it was coming apart. One spring actually jumped off it’s original pin and landed on another pin. Just like it was supposed to there. Took about an hour to figure that one out. The 2 worst parts were that spring and ball bearing that I mentioned earlier and the little spring clamp “thingy” that guides the slide when closing. Hey,…worst case scenario,…it was going to be scrap anyways! 😉
I lifted mine to face level to peek inside while separating and it fell on my shooting bench. Definitely miss the warm weather.
Chris,
When you say YOU, are you referring to me? Because I don'[t remember ever saying that moly would wear non-hardened parts. I think there is nothing that supports that view and this is the first time I have ever heard it.
B.B.
B.B.,
I did not mean you specificaly, just a person in general. Thank you for your advice. I would prefer to use moly as much as possible. It could have been a poster’s comment or something I had heard somewhere else. I feel better going forward. Thank you,…Chris
RidgeRunner, like your replies and comments!! Semper fi!!
Chris USA
Like your comments and replies too.
Till the end.
😉
Chris
I figured out that that I have to log on to the blog
If you’ve got your account set up you’re in, now you’ll probably have to log back in occasionally. I do about every two weeks but it’s sporadic sometimes and can be hard to find a login button..
Welcome to the pack!
B B B,
Glad you got it figured out. I see your a bit of a “night owl”. There is a few of those here. Don’t let my early morning post fool ya. I am the early to bed, early to rise type and out the door by 5:30am. I probably should have mentioned the log in thing when you had that first one vaporize. That changed a while back do spam troubles. Like Reb said, sometimes you have to log back in. Sometimes I can go for a couple weeks and there is times it’s every few days.
At any rate,…look forward to “seeing ya around” and getting to know what your shooting. Chris
Now if we can find enough clear weather to go outside and dig out my shooting table