Sig MPX pellet sub-machinegun: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun
Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun is a heavy, solid airgun.

This report covers:

  • Wow!
  • Description
  • Match pellets
  • Back to the gun
  • Accuracy
  • Sights
  • 30 Pellets — how do they do it?
  • Manual needs revision
  • Overall evaluation

Today we begin looking at the MPX sub-machinegun from Sig Sauer. This is a different airgun, in that it is is being manufactured for, distributed by, promoted by and sold by Sig Sauer themselves. In other words, this airgun is one Sig is proud of — and in case you aren’t a firearm shooter, Sig is very proud of everything they make and sell.

I waited patiently for this gun. I know others beat me to the punch, but their enthusiasm may have caused some problems. A few guns were allowed to go out without the company’s stamp of approval. I watched as that happened and I waited until things were right. Sig tells me they are right now, so the airguns I will test for you are the ones Sig is proud to sell.

Wow!

If you have never handled a firearm sub-machinegun, your first reaction will always be — wow, when you first pick one up! This thing is heavy! I remember thinking that about every M3 and M3A1 grease gun in my arms room in Germany, and again when I shot an H&K MP5. Well, get ready, folks, because the Sig MPX pellet gun is also heavy. When a 90-gram CO2 cartridge is installed and 20 pellets are loaded the gun weighs  7 lbs. 1 oz. Sig got it right.

Description

There are 2 versions of the MP platform. The MPX I’m starting to test today is the sub machinegun configuration and sports a 16-inch barrel. The longer MCX is a carbine version that carries a carbine-length 21-inch barrel. I will also test that airgun. But understand at their hearts both guns share a common powerplant.

{Note: Sig informs me that the MPX barrel is 8 inches long and the MCX barrel is 16 inches long. I was just quoting the numbers they give on page 5 of the owner’s manual.}

The gun is a 30-shot semiautomatic pellet gun with a rifled barrel. It operates on a 90-gram CO2 cartridge that sits inside the non-adjustable butt and should provide gas for many shots. naturally, we will find out just how many in Part 2, when we test velocity. Sig was kind enough to send me several of their gas cylinders, as well as a tin of their Match Ballistic Alloy pellets. So, somebody at Sig knows how to launch a product properly, and they have my thanks.

The length of pull is right on 13 inches. Subguns hold differently than rifles anyway. They are more like bullpups, and are meant to be fired from the hip in rapidly evolving situations, though the sights get used a lot more than you see in the movies.

Speaking of things done right, the CO2 cartridge screws into the gun’s receiver. That eliminates all problems of cartridge lengths from different manufacturers — something other guns have had difficulties with.

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun CO2 cartridge
The MPX butt slips off and a 90-gram CO2 cartridge is screwed in place.

Match pellets

This is a quick aside. When I looked at those Match Ballistic Alloy pellets and saw their $35 pricetag, I realized they must be something special. They are priced right alongside the best from RWS, H&N and Qiang Yuan. So I’m not going to just burn them up in these two semiautos. I will also test them in a world class 10-meter target gun or two. If I could find a lead-free pellet that could hold its own with the best lead target pellets, whoever sells it would be on the happy side of success! That is one of airgunning’s most elusive Holy Grails.

Back to the gun

The MPX is semiautomatic only. Each time the trigger is pulled, the gun fires once. The safety, which is ambidextrous, selects either the fire mode or safe, and it does so with the thumb of your trigger-finger hand — like the M16. Yes, there was talk last year about full-auto guns and yes, there was talk of a precharged version of this gun or something similar, but as I mentioned, Sig has slowed down the launch to make certain that what goes out the door now is worthy of their name.

Perhaps those other models are in the works, but no one at the Sig booth shared that with me — nor would I expect them to. Too many SHOT Show reports show things that are prototypes and mockups that don’t even work (I have been very guilty of this), and that gets everyones’ expectations working overtime. In the Army we called it pumping sunshine (I won’t say where). Let’s concentrate on what actually is real, which is what I’m testing for you today.

Sig advertises a velocity of 600 f.p.s. and I have to believe that is obtained with the very alloy pellet I will be using. Expect lead pellets to go slower. But even so, we are still in a good range for a small airgun. Let’s hope the accuracy is also good

Accuracy

One thing I have a reputation for is holding the airguns I test to what seems to some manufactures to be an impossible standard of accuracy. As a former 10-meter pistol competitor, I like every pellet to go through the same hole. But with a sub machinegun, that’s not how it’s done.

A subgun can shoot accurately when the standard is minute of bad guy at close range. And a firearm subgun can also cut that guy in half if you stay on the trigger too long. The MPX is a semiauto only, so let’s settle for minute of bad guy. In other words, I may shoot off a bench to test this gun, but I do not expect this to be a bench gun. More on that when we come to the accuracy test.

Fortunately, Sig also did something about that, as well. They send me three different Sig action airgun targets to test. My favorite by far is what they call the Texas Star. When the small outlying paddles on this target are hit, they collapse and unbalance the star wheel that begins to spin on its own. More paddles dropped means faster spinning. If I can do it I plan to video this for you toward the end of this report.

Sights

The MPX has open sights — or perhaps I should say non-optical sights! They lie flat against the top of the receiver when you want to use the electronic dot sight that also comes with the airgun, but you know me — I just have to test them. And, get this you authenticity buffs — they adjust by inserting the tip of a sharp metal object in small holes around their periphery — exactly like the sights on an M16! I will use the nose of a 5.56 cartridge, but Sig has thoughtfully included a small spanner for those you you who are out on a remote fire base and haven’t been resupplied yet.

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun rear sight
The rear peep sight flips up and adjusts like an M16 sight. The peep flips for a larger battlesight aperture.

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun front sight
The front post sight adjusts like an M-16 sight. It can also lie flat against the top of the handguard.

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun sight spanner
This spanner is included with the gun for those who don’t have a 5.56mm cartridge handy to adjust the sights.

Don’t worry — I plan to test the dot sight, too. And I will test both sights using the same test standard, so we get a feel for how they stack up. I’m thinking paper at 10 meters.

30 Pellets — how do they do it?

Okay, here is the interesting part. The MPX and MCX have a 30-round pellet magazine with the pellet chambers linked in a belt. They are in a racetrack that’s an internal part of the magazine and the loading instructions are very specific — SO READ THEM! I showed you that linked belt in the second SHOT Show report, but now it’s time to get specific.

I am familiar with this racetrack belted pellet chamber approach. Anics, the Russian airgun makers, used it in the Skif A3000 pistol. Unfortunately that pistol is so inaccurate and has such a hard trigger that I lost respect for this method of loading. So Sig’s top airgun engineer, Ed Schultz, showed me what he has done to improve it — and you had better pay attention, because the owner’s manual hasn’t caught up with what I am about to tell you.

Sig Sauer MPX sub-machinegun pellet belt and tool
The belt must be loaded correctly and then inserted back into the racetrack magazine correctly. The owner’s manual is vague and confusing, so in the next report I will write new instructions and give clear pictures. The silver rod on top of the belt is a pellet loading tool to push each pellet deep into teach chamber. It comes with the gun but is not addressed in the manual.

The pellet cylinders are made of a combination of synthetic engineering plastic (Delrin?) and metal. Ed created a special tool to push each pellet deep into the part that’s inside the hard metal forward portion of the chamber. He did this to seat the pellet as close to the breech as possible. We will learn how well it works in Part 3.

Manual needs revision

I found the manual weak and vague on several important points. Loading the magazine is a big one. There needs to be more specific directions on how that is done, with better pictures and less vagueness over the orientation of both the magazine and the pellet belt. I plan to put those directions in Part 2, because I see this as a major point of misunderstanding about these guns. It will take a lot of writing, so I’m leaving the subject until then.

Overall evaluation

So far I like this airgun. It seems very robust and solid. And I like the open sights. I hope it continues to surprise us all in a very good way.

73 thoughts on “Sig MPX pellet sub-machinegun: Part 1

  1. The pellet loading looks like its got its little quirks to overcome and learn which is no big deal.

    Overall it sounds like a fun gun. I can see myself putting one of my HPA converted 88 gram cartridges in the gun. Bet it will work after I seen how well it done on the 1077 I have.

    And that Texas Star target sounds cool. A little on the pricey side. But it would for be good practice to improve your shooting skills. So yep its worth the price.

    If I keep getting targets and placing them out in yard its going to take me a hour this summer to pick them up so I can cut grass. But can’t help it. Got to have fun targets. And theses semi-auto air guns are sure fun. Sure like my little HPA converted 1077.

    Can’t wait to here more about this gun. And I have considered getting it. I do like the semi auto pellet guns.



      • RR
        Looks pretty much the same. I would probably get it over the other one just cause its cheaper.

        Heck knowing me I’ll hit the legs and such and the targets will look all bright and shinny new still. That’s one thing I noticed about my shoot to reset sqerrial targets and my Caldwell steel spinner targets. You have to evently get out the spray paint can and do some touching up. And I found that white works best on the paddles and I stay with black on the rest of the target. Well for me anyway. And it’s a little work maintaining the targets but way worth it in the end.


    • Are those the refillable paint ball cartidges? Would make sense , so would an extended mag version in select fire. The downside , of these like the pistols is that the velocities with real world weight pellets is a disappointing 400 or so fps in 177 caliber


  2. BB,

    This is not my cup of tea, but your description of the gun is that interesting that I would like to test one. I will like to see in its performance, especially how the CO2 flow will hold up when you are shooting fast. If it really can hit something at 10 to 20 mtr it would be sure fun to shoot.

    My respect for the builders in the mean time, it looks they really got it nicely together. That’s quite a job.

    Regards,

    August


  3. BB,

    I have been intrigued with the MPX for some time now. I will be very interested in the shot count per cylinder and also if there are any issues with having this sit for some time and not leaking. I am certain that if I had one and my son-in-law came over it would not take us long to go through a cylinder, but I can also see where it might sit months without being shot.

    Now if Sig ever does come out with an HPA version of this, I will be all over it.


    • RR
      That’s why I mentioned the 1077 I converted the 88 gram cartridge to HPA.

      It gets easy 50 shots per fill from 1200 psi down to 800 psi. And it’s shooting at a higher velocity than when Co2 is used. Oh and another important thing. If I stay with 50 shots per fill the first shot to the 50th shot still maintains the same velocity. It’s after 50 shots is when the velocity starts dropping. What else is nice that I can pull the trigger as fast as I want and it don’t freeze up and slow down like Co2. And I don’t have to worry about if its 20 degrees outside like you do with Co2.

      The reason I looked at this gun BB is testing is because it would be easy to do the HPA mod to the 88 grm cartridge. All you do is drill and tap threads to accept one of the Foster male fittings. That fitting would be facing straight out the back of the 88 grm cartridge. The butt pad of the gun would just pop back in place. Maybe you would have to drill a hole in the butt pad from the inside to clear the Foster fitting.

      But here’s something also that you might be thinking. That you would have to fill it every 50 shots with the hand pump. But remember the belt only holds 30 shots. So then you would probably only shoot from 1200 down to say 950 psi. That would only take seriuosly like 2 minutes to fill with a Shoebox compressor. And maybe only a couple more minutes with a hand pump and its low pressure so it would be easy to hand pump. And if you got a Shoebox or a volunteer to hand pump you could be filling the belt with pellets. I bet the gun would be filled back up to 1200 psi before you got the belt full of pellets.

      And one last thing. This is like comparing apples to oranges. But that is the point. Look at the cost of the FX Monsoon and it has to be filled to 3000 psi and it only gets really two magazines per fill which is 24 shots. You might squeeze another half mag of shots out of it but I don’t like refilling a pcp on half a mag. That’s just me. But you see what I mean. The 1077 and this Sig converted to HPA is still way cheaper than that FX Monsoon and I’m saying they would be just as fun and cost a whole heck of a lot less.

      And I do hope Crosman is reading this because this could very easily be the setup they need to make the hundred dollar pcp. Run it on a resivoir the size of a 88 grm tank and use the same valving as a Co2 gun. And designate to only fill to 1200 psi. Also include a mini hand pump kind off like them ones that can be carried on bikes but to keep cost down make it a 2 stage pump instead of a 3 stage pump. It might take 60-80 strokes to get 30 shots but that’s about normal for high pressure anyway. Two to four hand pump strokes per shot. So listen Crosman please design a economy 2 stage pump and make the gun I’m talking about. I would buy one for the kids to learn about pcp guns with.



        • StevenG
          There is somebody selling them online. EBay or something like that.

          First what I’ll say is I’m a machinist so drilling the cartridge and tapping the hole with threads is very easy for me to do. Matter of fact I did my cartridge at home with a vise and a hand drill and hand tapped it with a tap handle.

          One thing I will suggest if anybody does it. To make sure they thoroughly clean out the cartridge before you put the fitting in. You don’t want all them metal particles from drilling and tapping getting into your gun.

          And the last thing is the most important thing. I myself would never sell anything modifeid to anybody that has to do with high pressure air. The stuff is just to dangerous if done wrong or not used correct.

          And that’s a special note I should say right now. Probably or I should say maybe that cartridge and threads and fitting would hold up to 1200 or even more psi. But I would say 1200 psi is as far as I would push it on fill pressure. And remember Co2 operates on around 800 psi. So 1200 psi In a Co2 gun is probably getting close to over exerting the seals and parts in the gun.

          So I will say this. Everything has a point were it will work or break. Somethings its no big deal when it breaks. On the other hand when other things break it could be very dangerous. I work with high pressure hydraulics and air at the machine shop I work at rebuilding and such. And let me tell you even 900 psi of hydraulic oil spraying with a precise stream can poke a hole right through your hand. HPA is no joke either. And like the saying goes with electricity. You don’t see it get you till its over. If you ever wake up again that is.

          So yes if you take on a project all I can say is make sure your qualified to do it. And of course I don’t mean you Steve. I’m just talking in general with a little warning to make people aware.


      • GF1,

        I will certainly have to keep this in mind. I really do not see me getting this thing. I had a CO2 pistol several years ago and it just was not my thing. I am more of a sniper type of dude. I like one shot at extreme range. Right now my Edge is shooting sub 1″ groups at 50 yards. Whenever I get around to getting an 18″ .177 barrel for it, I believe I will be able to tighten that to MOA.

        I would certainly enjoy having someone loan me one to play with for a bit and I would be happy to feed it out of my own pocket, but buy one? Nah.


        • RR
          With you there. I’m definitely a long range type of air gunner.

          But poping cans with a semi-auto is fun also. And you will be surprised after doing some standing unsupported fast shooting at cans how much more stable and easier those bench rested long shots seem. It’s a good way to break up a day of shooting too.



  4. B.B.,

    Very nice/interesting and hats off to SIG for setting you up ALL the way. That is nice and only makes perfect sense in every way when it would come to a launch/promo/review scenario. This will be a fun test to watch!

    Since you do not review 88/90 tank shooters that often, I may have missed it,….but would the larger CO2 tank prevent less pressure drop than a std. 12 gram?



    • Chris,

      I don’t think the cylinder size has anything to do with the velocity stabilization. It’s the firing chamber inside the valve where the amount of gas is determined.

      But we will find out in the velocity test, won’t we?

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        While I suppose you already addressed it at some point or another,…..I was referring to the cooling of the gas from rapid shooting and the subsequent pressure drop and the subsequent velocity drop. I just thought the added gas volume and larger tank might be less susceptible to the cooling fluctuations.

        But yes, I am sure you will no doubt put it through some rapid shot Chrony test. Looking forward to it.


  5. B.B.

    Why would Sig Sauer wait to release this new product “till they got all the bugs out” and then do so with a manual that is inferior to their product? Sounds like they will be getting lots of returns because the gun jams because the new owners do not know how to operate it properly. Just what every company wants!!!
    FWIW, Diana’s owner’s booklet leaves a lot to be desired too….

    -Y


    • Yogi,

      You have to understand how this works. It takes many weeks to print the manuals and get them into each of the boxes before they are shipped. For example, this pellet loader was a very last minute changes that Ed made. And until they get feedback like mine, they may not know the manual has a problem.

      The SHOT Show is not for consumers. It’s to showcase the products that will eventually be available for dealers in the coming year. Many times whet is shown at SHOT doesn’t become available to the public untill the last quarter of the year. So things like this happen all the time.

      I mentioned it more for the benefit of Sig, who is reading this report. They can now watch what I write about loading and see if they like it better than what they already have in the manual. Three months later, they can get a corrected manual into all the boxes. That is the timeframe we are looking at here.

      B.B.


    • Yogi,
      It may be counter-optimistic, but it is an article of faith to all involved in the pre-consumer moments that, no matter how thorough, beautifully written and illustrated the manual is, only maybe one in 25 (or less) ultimate consumers will actually read the directions. Ever.
      Always an …unusual…moment when the unqualified/ignorant/just-plain-stupid picks up the maybe loaded/maybe unloaded submachine-gun and then…


  6. I’m just trying to imagine what a fully automatic, full-power air rifle would be like. It’d be really strange, in a way, to fire off multiple pellets as opposed to carefully placing a single shot. It’d be satisfying, though, I bet.



      • B.B.,

        This looks pretty wicked! And at 7 pounds, it is difficult to imagine there is much, if any, plastic involved. I hope it is accurate, as to me that is what makes lead pellets desirable, versus steel BBs. The EBOs is accurate for a BB gun, and this reminds me of that, but if this is substantially more accurate at 10 – 15 meters, I would be quite tempted by it, even though I’m not generally into black tactical guns.

        The belt this uses reminds me of the one used by the Beretta CX-4 Storm. I recall years ago when that came out that many owners complained about the tedious process of loading the 30 pellets. I expect the same gripes with this. What do people expect? To be able to simply pour lead pellets into a hopper and shoot? Sheesh.

        I’m eagerly awaiting your next installment.

        Michael


        • Michael
          I have seriously thought about the CX-4 Storm and converting the 88 gram cartridge to HPA. But they where a little pricey. But this Sig is getting me excited. And read what I wrote to RidgeRunner at the beginning of the blog. If it was changed over to HPA the gun could be getting filled up while your loading up the clip. That’s always the thing that does get me a bit about semi-auto guns. The reloading of the ammo. Heck that’s why I always put single shot trays in my Marauders. I don’t like loading the mags up. But hay it just another part of shooting when you factor in how much fun those semi-auto’s are to shoot.

          If you haven’t opened up on some aluminum cans with a semi auto you don’t know what your missing. Definitely makes for fun shooting.


    • Chris,

      A fully-auto lead pellet gun is kind of a Holy Grail. Of course there is the SMG in .22 B.B. described below, which never sold well, and I guess a few PCP rifles with 10 or 12 round circular clips. Other than that is the long discontinued Daisy 2003 pellet pistol, which if modified could fire 35 pellets from a unique spiral magazine in about two seconds. But how much fun is a two second burst?

      I have a modified to full-auto Walther PPK/S BB pistol, and it fires all 19 BBs in about 1.5 seconds. It is great to shake up a 6 pack of diet (more carbonation than sugar) soda cans and blow them up with the PPK/S, but the laughs last for only ten or so seconds. If I knew someone who could fashion a 60 or so round magazine for that, now THAT would be something.

      Michael



      • Michael
        And at one time the Evonix Speed that is now a semi-auto use to be offered as a full auto model. I almost bought one. Then went back a couple weeks later to seriously buy one and they didn’t offer it in full auto anymore. But those are exspensive pcp’s. They are up in the same price range as the FX Monsoon. And again look at this Sig and the Crosman 1077. The fun factor is still there plus costs a whole lot less. I can by a whole heck of a lot of pellets for the Sig or the 1077 verses buying the Evonix Speed or FX Monsoon.


  7. BB,

    I could see where this could be a very expensive air rifle. For one thing you are going to use a lot of pellets. That in turn means you are going to use a lot of CO2 cylinders. Another thing is you are going to want to have about six magazines so that you are not shooting for five seconds and reloading for five minutes. You are going to want a vest with pouches to hold those magazines at the ready. You are going to want to have several action targets to scatter around to blast at…

    As for the potential accuracy of this thing, you did not mention whether the barrel is rifled, but I will assume such. That should mean that if you use the right pellet for it and can stand to wait 30 seconds between shots, it could be quite accurate out to a considerable range. Of course almost nobody is going to wait that long between shots.



      • BB,

        Not at all. This is just the way it will be. I am certain that you have shot it some by now. How long did it take to go through a “magazine”? I played with a M712 BB pistol this past spring at the GTA Fun Shoot. I went through a mag in about 1 second. It is my understanding that you can empty that in about 2 seconds. I would need a minimum of 6 mags to make it worth pulling out. That thing would absolutely slaughter the feral soda cans around the house.

        As you know, I have never been much of a Mattelomatic fan, but I have put a few rounds through M-14s, M-60s and Ma Dueces.



    • Ridge Runner,

      You sound a lot like me,…… See something that interest you and try to find all the flaws and things that it lacks,…to talk yourself out of it. 😉 All is not lost though,……in that insane process,…you find what you really want, what you are willing to settle for, your options…..and in the end,….be very happy with the choice you made.

      Best of all,….you did all the research, and all the back and forth, and in the end,….you know you did your homework and ended up with the very best you could get at the time.

      That is peace of mind,…and that is priceless,….no regrets. 🙂 Chris


      • Chris,

        It wasn’t to try to talk myself out of buying it as I already knew I wasn’t about to. That was just reality speaking. When I had a CO2 pistol previously, I had three extra clips for it. You start popping away with something like this, you don’t want to stop every few shots and reload. That belt is going to take a few minutes to do such. I would not want to take a break until I had a couple hundred pellets downrange.

        Yeah, I do see a lot of these toys and go “ooo, ooo, ooo!” but I know most of them would very quickly be gathering dust and rust in the closet.

        Sit back, save up my pennies and get a couple of nice toys to play with. Despite what some say, he who dies with the most toys doesn’t win.


  8. On the last sentence of your Wow! paragraph you left a blank space for the weight of this Sig MPX SMG.

    Looks very interesting. Hope they our somebody designs a speed loader for it.




    • Steven,

      I have fired just one shot from the gun so far. I will be sure to look at this carefully in Part 2, but right now I believe the mechanism is a true semi-auto. The Anics pistol worked the way you describe and the trigger was horrible. A trigger like that would kill any airgun.

      B.B.


  9. And I guess I should say this. It sounds like I’m totally against Co2 when you read all my comments about HPA conversions.

    I do like Co2 guns. They have their place. I liked my 1077 on the 12 grm cartridges even. So yes even out of the box this Sig and the 1077 guns are fun and a bargain in my eyes.


    • GF1,

      You said that the M-rod could be filled directly from a Shoebox. I would think, (and only thinking here), that the gauge would be getting “hammered” with “burst” of high pressure air from the Shoebox. I would think that it would (not) fare well with the gauge guts. Whereas a tank would supply a “smooth” flow of air and the gauge would rise easily with much less stress. Any thoughts?


      • Chris USA
        High pressure air doesn’t really work that way. It pressurizes smoothly and equally. It’s a gradual biuld up of pressure. The gauge moves very slowly and you don’t see it bump.

        Here’s something as a example. If I put lube in the opening of the Foster fill fitting. Like silicone hand pump grease that is sold by the Hill hand pump manufacturer. And I just put a glop on one side lets say.That grease will still be in place in the fitting when I disconnect the hose after filling the gun.

        But let’s say I was to release the HPA out of that fitting or even a hose or out the barrel of the gun into the open atmosphere. Then that silicone grease would blow out. The more abrubtly I release the high pressure air the more of a shock I guess I’ll call it of air comes out.

        When you use a buddy bottle to fill a gun you have to open the bottle knob very, very, very slowly. Abrubtly is a bad thing. Something might go pop. You could seriously fill a gun from a bottle in 2 seconds. But that’s a bad thing. One thing it does is create heat. If you fill from a bottle you want to still take at least a minute to fill the gun. And a little longer is better.

        So in reality its actually better on your components with a hand pump or a Shoebox compressor because it is slow and gradual which also helps reduce heat.

        Where there is a little bump or shock of air no matter what you fill with is when your fill device starts pressurizing the hose. You can hear the valve click on the Foster fitting guns but not so much on guns with the proprietary fittings. Why that happens is the hose pressure equalized with the guns resivoir pressure. So at that point after that happens the pressure is a smooth biuld up.

        Think of what a balloon does when you blow it up. It’s hard at first then all of a sudden the ballon starts to expand the balloon equally. So that’s what happens in your hose to the gun. Then it equalizes when the fitting opes and then the pressure starts expanding. And what happens if you take your finger and thumb off the ballon. Then the pressurized air escapes rapidly.

        Few did I explain all that right. That was alot of work you know. 😉


        • GF1,

          Thank you. (That was quite good). Notes made and things I had not heard before. Might skip the Buddy Bottle after all. BTW,….the M-rod, .25, B.B. style, looking real good……But,……still checking things out.

          🙂 , Chris Outa’ here.


          • Chris USA
            If your shooting at home I wouldn’t worry about the buddy bottle right now. That could come later on down the road.

            Truthfully I used a hand pump on a Benjamin Discovery for about 2 years before I got the Shoebox compressor. So I was covered basically for shooting at home or out in the woods or if I went to my brothers and even the shooting range. That is what’s nice about a hand pump. They aren’t to awful big to transport around and they are light weight.

            And what I found on most pcp guns is they have a shooting area of about 1000 psi they use from a full fill to the ending fill where the shots start dropping off. So in other words it takes me about 65 pumps with a hand pump to fill my Marauder from let’s say 2400 psi to 3400 psi. And yes I just said I fill my Marauder to 3400 psi. Told you I got it rock’n and roll’n.

            So you could just get the cheaper priced Benjamin hand pump now and then you have it for a back up if you get a Shoebox compressor and its down for maintenance. Yes maintenance. Some point in time you have to replace the o-rings. But they are very, very simple to work on.

            Oh and the hand pumps ain’t that bad to pump like you hear if your a bigger person. I’m around 210 and 6′ tall and have no problem pumping my guns up with a hand pump. And it’s a nice way to get a little exercise. And I do lift weights and exercise so I guess that helps when I hand pump.

            But just throwing some more things at ya.. 🙂


            • GF1,

              Your conversation with Chris gives me an idea for a report. You mentioned that most PCPs have a usable power band of about 1000 psi. I don’t think people really understand what that means, or how it works. Maybe I should do at least one report or even a series on air use in precharged guns?

              Thoughts?

              B.B.


              • BB
                I would appreciate if you did that blog.

                That’s something I didn’t realize either when I first started shooting pcp’s. I thought you just filled them up and shot. The usable shots in a given area of pressure is what makes the difference in how the gun performs.

                Tank volume I believe has something to do with it too. Here’s one that is surprising when you think about it. My .22 caliber Talon SS will get 50 usable accurate shots. And it is from 2700 psi down to 2000 psi. And guess what it takes exactly 5 minutes to fill on the Shoebox. And the . 25 Marauder takes exactly 5 minutes to fill also but its filling 1000 psi in the gun verses 700 psi of the Talon SS. Why the same amount of time to fill and less amount of usable shots on the .25 Marauder. Tank volume and how the valve works in relation to the striker and spring well and other things of course.

                So BB if you do a blog on it that would be great. It would give a person a place to search it for reference in one spot and not have to try to go back through comments to find it. Or remember where they saw it. So yes. Again great idea.




  10. B.B.

    It’s good that Sig Sauer delayed the release of this MPX until they felt the quality was what they wanted it to be, and I certainly hope your testing demonstrates that quality. I had thought to buy the new Sig Sauer P226 until I read some of the customer reviews at Pyramyd Air. Some of the reviews reported significant accuracy problems (shots hitting low and to the left kind of thing) and loose fitting pellets falling out of the bottom end of the magazine while actively shooting. Perhaps Sig Sauer released the P226 too soon due to all the marketing hype.

    Someone else commented about the Beretta CX4 belt magazine. Although I really don’t need anymore airguns, I still think I may purchase either the CX4 or the MPX one day. I have a few questions if you can fit them in somewhere.

    How similar or different are the belt magazines between the MPX and the CX4?
    Which belt magazine design do you think is better?
    How do the CX4 and MPX compare in terms of weight, construction, material of construction (plastic or metal), and relative shot accuracy?


  11. B.B., been waiting for this one since I saw it on PA’s site (and catalog)! Well, not really this one, I really would like the MCX for the longer barrel (and velocity that comes with it). I’m waiting with high hopes for the velocity test. The MCX velocity test that PA posted was very disappointing. I don’t expect to match what the maker says, but when PA did put lite weight alloy pellets in it and the velocity is 200 fps less than the maker stated….that is a problem. So fingers crossed and hoping this one comes through. Looking so forward to this review! Thank You
    Doc.


  12. For you guys thinking about converting to HPA, just please be careful. I’m not saying it can’t be done, as it is. Here is a link to the blog on it done back in 2008
    /blog/2008/08/how-to-convert-from-co2-to-air/


  13. I don’t know about the Sig quality. Their pistols are unimpeachable. But I keep coming across complaints about the 716 rifle series design. This pellet gun seems like a Frankenstein of different intentions. Since it is an airgun why not make it full-auto? Although if you did, it wouldn’t make sense to do all the work on a pellet gun since bbs can spray just as well. If they are going to make it semi-auto, why not make it accurate. I understand that the HK MP5, the gold standard of submachine guns and one of the few to fire with closed bolt can be quite accurate. I’ve heard of people targeting the fingers of silhouette targets, although I’m not sure if that’s on a semiauto setting. There’s obviously a lot in the gun, but I’m not sure what it’s trying to do.

    BB, I’ve never understood the mechanism of recoilless rifles, so no wonder I didn’t recognize the part.

    I’m also curious what attracted Edith to the Escher art. I’ve found them fascinating but disturbing. Escher’s work is linked with a mathematician named Goedel whose big achievement was to prove that all mathematics is ultimately based on some assumptions. So, you can’t prove everything. At some point, you have to accept something as true to function which puts mathematics (and everything else) on an arbitrary footing. Maybe that’s why the pictures are so bizarre looking.

    Matt61



      • Have you seen Pink Floyd’s The Wall?
        If not you May not care much for the music although it’s more ambiance than any other genre but the artwork is very fluid and reminds me of that print.


        • No have never seen the film and that’s not my kind of music. But I did read some negative review of the movie about how someone puts his hand in a toilet. That turned me off.

          Matt61


        • Reb,

          Seen it. Many years ago, and let’s just say, thing were a bit different then. I do remember a fare bit of oppression and British military images. And yea,…it might be a stretch that it would be B.B.’s “cup of tea”,…but who knows? …….B.B. surprises me quite often. As for the art, very fluid. Very bold.



      • True, I was thinking that one’s initial attraction (a la Goedel) is not something you can really explicate. But I can see how the subtle confusion of the pictures with things that inexplicably do not work could have a hold on the technically minded.

        I’m reminded of a science fiction book called The Macroscope by Piers Anthony where humanity detects a broadcast from an alien civilization that consists of psychedelic images. For those below a certain IQ threshold, it is gibberish. Above that threshold, people gain radical new knowledge, but it drives them nuts. With your fondness for science fiction, you might like it.

        Matt61


    • Douglas Hofstadter is the guy who related Escher’s paintings and Bach’s fugues to Gödel’s incompleteness theorems in his book “Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid.” The book is nerdy and mind-blowing and awesome.

      I had the pleasure of spending a couple hours with some rented MP5s at an indoor range near B.B.’s old Maryland stomping grounds. Very addicting. Very German. And very easy to shoot accurately in full auto, even by an unpracticed knuckledragger like me. After a little practice and after learning the funny way that one stands, with shoulders much more square to the target than with a long gun, my buddy and I were putting five round bursts into probably six inches at 25 yards. One of those guns that flatters its shooter.

      -Jan


      • Yes, that’s the book. I remember only the title and never got around to reading it.

        Lucky you to have fired an MP5. B.B. challenged me to doing that many years ago, and I haven’t managed it yet. Interesting gun which, I understand, is a scaled down version of the G3 battle rifle which it somewhat resembles. And the G3 is supposed to be capable of very high accuracy. So the accuracy of the machine gun does apply to the full auto mode. Your results are better than I can do with a handgun which raises an interesting point.

        One of my motivations for getting a CZ 75 pistol is that it is favored by an international shooting champion named Angus Hobdell. He’s a transplanted Brit who didn’t like their gun laws, so he emigrated. I guess that U.S. immigration figured that he had skills to contribute. 🙂 Anyway, there is a YouTube video of him with his CZ 75 competing with a guy using a submachine gun (maybe an MP5) to cut a wooden post in half. Hobdell was utterly confident beforehand, “He hasn’t got a chance.” And sure enough, he finished far ahead, even contributing the remaining shots in his magazine to the machine gunner’s post. On the other hand, I probably should not be comparing myself to a professional shooting champion and grandmaster.

        Matt61


  14. So, Tom, I just got an ad from PA about their brand new Paper Shooters Zombie Slayer Kit. Do you intend to review it here? Of course I believe /I/ will wait to buy one until the full auto version comes out. And I think it would be a great idea to combine it with a paper shredder: you feed the documents you need shredded into the side of the receiver and the pellets fly out of the barrel!

    Seriously though, it might be fun to do a review of this gun. [nudge nudge, wink wink]

    And thank you for the write up of the gun show. I can barely imagine how sad it must have been to attend without Edith. I burst into tears just thinking about it.


    • Joe
      I do believe I remember BB saying that he was.

      I think it’s cool that you put it together yourself. Kind of reminds me of when I was a kid putting plastic model cars together.

      I could see myself getting a few if they come out with different ones just for the funbof putting them together.

      But who would of thought. A spit wad gun.



      • BB
        In a email advertisement I got about the gun. Somewhere it said they wetted the paper balls that you make in the molds that’s provided with the gun to give it that spit wad effect of the paper ball splating.

        You know just like when you was a kid you shot them from your Bic clear ball point pen after you took the ink tube out the one side and the end cap of the other side. They were excellent little blow guns and deadly quiet too. Of course you had to get the just right consistency of the paper and the water/spit. To wet was not good and not wet enough wasn’t good either. It made a difference how well the paper ball flew.

        Not that I ever did anything like that in class in grade school or anything you know. 😉



          • BB
            Ha-ha had to laugh. But ain’t that the truth. Now days you would be a millionaire.

            And I’m not even going to get into all the fun little things we did. And got caught doing and didn’t get caught doing. It was actually kind of part of the fun was no getting caught. But when you did and then everybody in the school heard about. It was like a soap opera everyday at school waiting to see what some got away with or got caught doing.

            Ain’t it shame to think it was like that in school back then. Hey we was kids. What do kids do you know. Have fun! 🙂


  15. They introduced this LAST YEAR at shot show. And I have been following it closely since.
    It has taken a year to get it to you in its current form.

    A few made it out to a one or two people in June of last year, but it was still a prototype, and the people whose hands it made it to, were definitely not qualified nor dedicated enough to airgunning to do an extensive test of the platform. There was a video or two posted to Facebook with no details, just a “look what I got to test” and a few shots at a tin can. I guess it helped that he is friends with a Sig rep.


    • 45Bravo,

      There is a whole big juicy back story about all that occurred, but I won’t repeat it here. Bottom line is the launch last year was premature.

      But Sig now has competent airgun people on board and they are relaunching the guns in the right way. I pray that the guns I’m testing are as robust as they need to be.

      B.B.


  16. I have had the pleasure of shooting this gun so here’s my little review. It’s fricking SWEET! The trigger is heavy, linear in pull but very predictable. It’s accurate enough to destroy animal crackers at 15yds w/ open sights. Now it was cold out(45f) and raining(covered reange though) so the full potential of the gun was realized. Also ti was being fed lead pellets. The owner was unable to get extra mags/belts at the time as they are/were not yet available from the factory. Anyways I hope this helps with some of your questions. Now go out and buy one!


  17. So far the full auto select fire Uzi is the most fun sprayer, If it had a bolt hold open when empty , it would be about perfect. So far I don’t see much of interest in the SIG,semiauto and more of a pain to load


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