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Benjamin 392

Revitalizing a Benjamin 392: Part 1

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↓ 360 comments

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Benjamin 392
Benjamin 392 multi-pump pneumatic.

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • The story
  • Applying ATF stop leak
  • Condition of the rifle
  • Test 1
  • Test 2
  • Test 3
  • H&N Baracuda Match
  • JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
  • Trigger pull
  • Conclusion

Before I begin, a message to Aaron from Hawaii. I have talked with Johnny Hill of Tin Starr bullets (at the Weatherford Pawn Shop) and he is making me some bullets that are unlike any on the market today. I will test them in the TexanSS and let you know the results. They are very light and should give more than three shots per fill.

Today will be a different kind of report. It’s one many of you have asked for, but I think this is the first time I’ve done one like it.

The story

I was in the Weatherford Pawn Shop last week, picking up a gun and getting some bullets for the TexanSS test. I happened to see an old Chinese B3 rifle in the corner and asked about it. This was a real B3 — not a B3-A that I sometimes mention. It looked even older than the B3 I once owned, so it probably dated back to the late 1970s or early ‘80s. I thought it would make a nice gun to test for this historical series. They sold for $20 when they were new, but the tag on this rusty old one said $59.00! I plotzed, right there in the store!

They told me to make them an offer, and I was about to say ten dollars when they remembered another old airgun they had that needed fixing. Could I reseal a Benjamin 392? I don’t know how to do that, but Jeff Cloud does. It would cost me more than I wanted to pay for the B3, but the story was starting to get interesting.

They sent me home with both air rifles and on the way I wondered whether a treatment of ATF sealant that I recommend to everyone who has sealing problems might work. To make the story short, it did work. The rifle that absolutely would not hold a charge is now holding for days! And that gave me an idea.

What if I tested the rifle for velocity before an overhaul, and then again afterward? That would tell us just how good ATF stop leak is at fixing these pneumatic and CO2 guns. So that’s what I’m doing today. I will test the rifle in my usual way for a multi-pump and then have Jeff go through it and test it again afterward. That way, whoever buys the rifle from them will get one that’s freshly overhauled. and we get to see how well the field fix works.

Applying ATF stop leak

Before I get to the velocity test, here is a word on applying the ATF sealant. The fix happens fast but not instantaneously. Drop 10 drops of sealant on the end of the pump rod, which can be seen when the pump lever is all the way open and the rifle is on its back (with the pump slot up). I didn’t have an eye dropper this time, so I loaded up a cotton swab several times and just smeared it on the rod end. The goal is to get past the rod end and onto the pump head at the other end that you can’t see. Also, you want the sealant to be pumped into the inlet valve as the rifle is pumped, so it gets on all the inner seals.

This took me several minutes and I had to cock and fire the rifle several times. I also put sealant on the tiny o-ring on the end of the bolt. Finally, after about 5 minutes of pumping and shooting, the gun started holding. Then I would pump it 4 times and leave it for several minutes, to see if it held. Then several hours. Finally for several days. The rifle now pumps and holds as it should.

Condition of the rifle

This multi-pump has had a hard life. The external condition shows a lot of paint loss and scratches in the wood. It’s a later model that I think was made in 2000, but it’s in worse shape than many multi-pumps I’ve see that were 50 years older. Given the condition of the outside I believe the inside is probably the same. I doubt the rifle was ever stored with air in it, so it’s probably filthy inside the valve. If the rifle was mine I would just leave it as is, but I would shoot it several times a week for the next year to get it running right. But the pawn shop will sell it, so it has to be right.

Test 1

Let’s see what velocity the rifle achieves with Crosman Premier pellets on 3 to 8 pump strokes.

Pumps…………Velocity
3………………….491
4………………….538
5………………….576
6………………….599 no air remaining
7………………….632 no air remaining
8………………….652 no air remaining

This 392 is the fastest one I have ever tested! My 392 pump-assist topped out at 608 f.p.s. It’s obviously still in good shape inside. I cocked the rifle and fired a second time after 6, 7 and 8 pumps to see if all the air had been exhausted on the shot.

Test 2

How consistent is it? I’ll try 10 shots on 4 pumps.

Shot……………Velocity
1………………….529
2………………….541
3………………….529
4………………….522
5………………….499
6………………….538
7………………….529
8………………….552
9………………….546
10……..………….545

The average is 532 f.p.s. but the spread is 53 f.p.s. That’s huge for a multi-pump. It should be closer to 10 f.p.s. That may be an indication of some seals that are less than perfect. Or the pump head may be heating up with use and compressing more air, because all the fast shots came at the end of the string.

Test 3

This is the last test. I’ll shoot a couple heavy pellets to see what the power potential is.

H&N Baracuda Match

First up was Baracuda Match with 5.51mm heads, on 4 and 8 pumps.

Pumps………………Velocity………Energy
4………………………447…………..9.59 foot pounds
8………………………582…………..16.25 foot pounds

JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy

Next I tried JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy, again on 4 and 8 pumps.

Pumps………………Velocity………Energy
4………………………493…………..9.79 foot pounds
8………………………619…………..15.43 foot pounds

These rifles usually top out in the 14+ foot-pound range, so once again we see that this one is hot.

Trigger pull

The trigger is 2-stage and releases crisply at 4 lbs. 9 oz. There is no adjustment for this trigger but it can be modified to release easier.

Conclusion

That’s where I’ll leave it for now. The gun will be resealed and then I will re-run the velocity test, followed by a accuracy test. I’m not testing accuracy before because an overhaul won’t change anything.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

360 thoughts on “Revitalizing a Benjamin 392: Part 1”

    • B.B.
      My first BB gun was a daisy at age 10 at 14 It was a Crosman BB and Pellet gun. 50 years later it is a Benjamin 392, it will be interesting to see your accuracy results. I have tried several different pellets and haven’t come up with very good results. Maybe I am expecting too much, I really like the Benjiman 392 and I will keep it in my Collection. In one year I now own 2 25 caliber Marauders 1 177 caliber Marauder and a Benjiman Bulldog 357 I enjoy shooting all of them.

      Steve

    • GF1,

      Thanks for the target on yesterday’s blog. Those groups are good but I expect both you and the gun to do better with more time together.

      I just spent a week getting rid of junk in my storage shed and then my workshop. I should get back to some shooting now.

      Don

      • Don
        I didn’t expect the gun to have a kick to it like it does. So I got to get use to it. I guess it’s still pretty accurate with the JSB’s anyway. But not what like I’m use to shooting. I think I may need to turn the power wheel down just a bit. Probably just a bit high on power and velocity for the accuracy I want.

        So you was doing some early spring cleaning. Guess better now than when it’s warmer shooting time.

      • Benji-Don,

        I predict that in a week or so that you will need a particular piece of junk that you just threw out 🙂

        Yesterday I was trying to remember what happened to a 4 foot piece of 3×4 angle iron that I acquired 30 years ago. Wanted it to make a milling riser block. Kinda hard to lose something that big and heavy so I can only guess that it didn’t make the move to the new house. I have a length of railway track that should do the job.

        Hank

          • Don,

            I am in clean-up/sort-out mode myself – spending too much time looking for something I know I have… somewhere.

            My solution was to put up two 16 inch wide, 18 foot long shelves in the garage. Been collecting 2 pound coffee cans for this project for a while. Now I just have to look in one place – its working out pretty well 🙂

            Hank

          • Chris,

            You never know when you might need a track or two… doesn’t everybody have one?? LOL!

            Actually, it is a 3 foot length. Have a couple of rail mounting plates and going to make an anvil out of it. I have a pair of forge-burners made so I can do some blacksmithing.

            The track itself is actually a nice fine grained high carbon steel that heat-treats/tempers well. Not tool steel but good never the less. Only problem is that you need a big angle-grinder to cut hunks off.

            Happy Friday eh!

            Hank

            • Vana2 & ChrisU

              I too have a length of railroad track. My dad used it back in the 50s in his auto repair shop. I have hung onto it since his passing in 1980. It really comes in handy once in a while for straightening out a piece of metal or driving out a pin and sometimes just as weight to hold something down. My piece is about 12″ long and I keep stored under my roll cabinet tool box.

              Geo

            • Hank,

              Hey,.. I did get some 2×2’s today to make some wind indicators. The plan at the moment is setting them out at 25/50/75 and 100 yards at this time. I may go with a hole in the top as opposed to a through wire. I even got the bead chain, which is lamp use sized. The small hardware store where I got it from had 3 different sizes. The lamp size was the smallest of the 3. I already had the marker tape. I look forwards to using them.

              Thanks for the proven idea,…. Chris

              • Hi Chris,

                I’m looking forward to some trigger time as well.

                With a “top hole” you may find that the wind has enough force to “weather cock” the flag forcing the wire to turn on the hole. It would be difficult to see the wind force when the flag is re-oriented directly toward or away from you. Suggest that you mount the wire on the side to force a consistent orientation.

                Hank

                • Hank,

                  I got a chance to use the flags that I made when I did some shooting yesterday during a lull in the monsoon we’ve been havin’ here in the midwest. The wind was crossing and the shooting lane (26 yards) was protected out to about 5 yards from the target. I mount my targets to that corrugated plastic that election signs are made from, so it was a simple matter of poking the flag into one of the corrugations. That provided wind feedback at the target, which was all I required under those circumstances. It worked like a charm.

                  • Halfstep,

                    Glad that the Windicators are working out for you!

                    I am guessing your election sign holders (plastic sign holders with the two wires that hold the corrugated signs) are the same ones that the real estate companies use.

                    I have a bunch of them but no plastic signs. Been using the table-saw to cut corrugated cardboard boxes into squares to make backing boards to mount my targets on – works well once you file a bit of a point on the wires.

                    Hank

                    • Hank,

                      They are indeed the same thing. Mine are made of 1/8″ wire welded into an “H” shape. the prongs just slide into two of the little tunnels formed by the corrugations so they don’t have to be sharp.

      • Don
        Read the bottom of yesterday’s blog about the Gauntlet.

        I found something on the Condor SS that could of been affecting the accuracy.

        Going to shoot some targets later to see. Let me know what you think.

        • GF1,

          Let’s hope tightening the screws on the Condor SS dials it in. Sometimes it takes more breaking in. You might want to give it a go without the shroud and check the crown while you have it off.

          Don

          • Don
            I just tryed some more shots with the Condor SS. I think the loose top hat was the problem.

            I then tryed some with the power wheel turned down from 6 to 4. It still liked the 2650 down to 2000 psi fill but shots tightened up and mildot hold overs still the same.

            I think the end results is the gun is more consistent in velocity now.

            I’m running out of time because they called me in early today at work. So got to get ready to go. Going to shoot it some more this weekend to know more about how it’s doing.

  3. BB,

    I wish I had remembered the trick with the ATF sealant before I tore down my 101. I would have still torn it down to rebuild it, but it would have been nice to see it shoot some first.

  4. B.B.,

    This is going to be an interesting test. Hope the beat up 392 is accurate.

    How is the pump pivot pin and linkage if they are not worn maybe it has not been shot much. It must have a low pump head space with the velocities you are getting.

    A good cleaning may get the velocity variation down to a good low number.

    Don

  5. B.B.,

    Well,.. this will test how well the ATF fix does. Bummer on sending it off. I always enjoy when you tear into one. Perhaps more of a job than time permits?

    Since this is re-sale project,.. is the cost of the rebuild worth it? Using just (pure random) #’s,… if they want 50, the rebuild cost 100, but the end resale value would be 125, equals a 25 loss. The poor condition would no doubt hold the resale value down too, as opposed to one that is in 90-95% shape.

    Chris

    • Hey B.B.,

      Perhaps some day Pyramyd AIR will go the way of Barrow Auto & Hardware, a tiny automotive store in Butler Georgia. Once you get to the counter at the back of the small automotive section, if you take a right, you will find yourself in a gun store that’s 3 times the size of the auto parts area. You could buy an air rifle AND a bottle of ATF all in the same place! In all fairness, they started as an auto parts store and started selling guns later. If any of you are ever in Georgia, it’s worth a look see. =D
      Looking forward to seeing how this 392 can shoot, accuracy wise.
      take care & keep up the good work!
      dafve

  8. Thanks Everyone, I have a 392 that holds air while I am plinking with it, but I always put it away with one pump of air, and a couple of hours later its gone. I have to try that Stop Leak.

    • Jimoak,
      My friend and I got our Sheridan C-models (which pretty much look and work like this except they are .20 caliber) at the same time back in the 70s; his always sealed up fine with one pump; mine always needed two pumps. I’ve been storing it that way for 40 years; sometimes it goes a few months before I shoot it again, but it ALWAYS holds the two pumps that were put in before it was stored. *shrugs* So, besides the ATF, you might want to give that a try.
      Good luck and good shooting,
      dave

  9. I had to give my moms boyfriends 392 to the cops back in 74′ for plinking at streetlights from my balcony in D.C.
    It was either that rifle or my departed grandads rubber forend crossman 100 series gun. Sadly thats lost to the sands of time too. At the time I thought the Benjamin looked cooler. The designer in me cant leave well enough alone, What about a roots style air compressor scaled for the pressure tube driven by a slick folding crank arm?New word for the day, Plotzed! keep plotzing, Ha Ha. R

    • 1stblue
      Well after loosing that gun and making the choice between it and your granddad’s gun. Did you stop plinking at street lights?

      I bet if you did that now days a SWAT team would welcome you or worse yet a sniper with is cross hair pointed somewhere that you wouldn’t like.

      I’m guessing back in 74 they probably slapped your hand and said don’t let us catch you again. Now days probably not do lucky.

      • You are so right Gunfun1. Things are way different now. A 13 year old child was shot in Santa Rosa in the recent years. He was totin an airsoft Ak style that you or I might be able to detect quickly. The video is brutal, but that kid was me over 40 years ago. My friends and I regularly played all over our neighbor hood with toy guns. Very likely a death sentance for a youngster now. I still think street lights are fair game tho. I try very hard to keep my lead in the yard now. I had allot of fun playin army too. You know practicing taking out sentries and stuff, Totaly commando. Best, Rob

        • Rob
          I grew up on a farm as a kid. I had a 392 back then and got my first .22 Winchester 190 when I was 11 back in 72. And was shooting shot guns as well. We use to walk the railroad tracks that ran down one side of the property. It was nothing to ride our dirt bikes down the road with our guns tied to the dirt bike and bass a cop and wave to him and he would wave right back. Heck nowdays if you wave at one they probably will pull you over.

          But as far as it goes now days I do live in the country but I stick to shooting at steel targets or tin cans and two litre soda bottles out at a100 yards and in.

          And maybe this question sounds strange to you. But why street lights still?

          • Thats the year my brother and I spent the summer with my grandpa in Mcregor, Iowa.
            He owned the lumberyard there, and the kids there were doing that stuff. But later,
            that 392 just could not break the polycarbonate lamp cover from across the st.made a nice whack tho! as far as “still” goes, I live in a neighbor hood and feed the birds and squirrels,dont sport shoot, mostly. I got 4 raccoon kills with my .25 Marauder, at night. Didnt wake anyone. 25yds, treed. knocked em right off the limb each time. took afew nights, and the neighbors were grateful!
            Not a lamp cover since 74′ Rob

            • Rob
              How do you give a thumbs up on the internet?

              And I know I’m sounding like the blog police.

              But ain’t that a bit much of a gun to whop coons at night in a neighborhood?

              .25 Marauder’s are serious guns for neighborhood pesting. What happens to that pellet after it exits the coon?

              Who is on the other side looking at the coon when your shooting towards them?

                • Rob
                  I have had some stock and modified Marauders in .25 caliber making up to almost 70 fpe. I do no what they do. And I do pest also.

                  Tell me this. How far away from that coon was you when you shot it?

                    • Rob
                      It’s ok. I see you don’t know me yet.

                      But yep I guess you could call me a expert on pesting. Among other air gun things.

                      Sorry buddy.

                    • 1stblue,

                      Gunfun1 has done a lot of pesting. He also knows a whole lot about air guns. He also has tuned and modified many air guns. He is often my go-to guy on questions and has taught me a lot. He has often “pushed” me to think of things in new ways and try many new things.

                      He may sound “arrogant”,… HIS word, not mine. ( 😉 GF1) He does know his stuff though. I would say that it is more of a case of knowing where he stands and standing behind that, rather firmly I might add. 😉

      • GF1,

        Got the .22 nail gun/stick cartridge reactive target designed/together. It ended up being (very) substantial after much thought and after much scrounging of components. The striker pin has a 1 1/2″ triple fender washer head to act as a target. I will do the final assy. tomorrow and do some testing as weather permits. It should make a nice report and (nothing) will be flying anywhere. Quick to reload too. Spring loaded pin.

              • BB
                All true.

                I don’t know what Chris has come up with. But if the cartridge is open where the gun powder charge expels there should not be a opposite reaction. In otherwards the blast should exit into the open atmosphere. Well maybe there would be some opposite reaction if not held in place.

                I think the big thing is to make sure it has free air to expel with out being contained or restricted. And something strong enough just in case the cartridge would expand and fragment peices that the cartridge was placed in. Again which probably won’t happen if nothing in front of the blast to put force on the cartridge.

                Either way. Still something to be cautious about if trying. Once something goes wrong it’s to late and no way to change the outcome.

                • GF1,

                  Of course there will be an opposite reaction, not only from the crimping, but also from the charge itself. The hole is drilled through. Nothing in front like a bullet or pellet to restrict or increase back pressure. Case expansion is very well under control.

                  I will keep you posted. Right now it is pieces and still needs final assy. and mounting to a piece of 2×6.

                  • Chris
                    I figured you would have the hole drilled through. I was adding to the discussion with you, me and BB. Figured if someone else might try this they could end up hurting if they didn’t pay attention to details.

                    Remember a while back when you started thinking about trying to make something. I said I do know what will happen. I was referring to the opposite reaction.

                    I myself can’t wait to see what you came up with. 🙂

                  • Chris USA,

                    Do you know what power level cartridges you will be using yet? Also, and just ignore me if you have already thought of this, if you could end up with the cartridge oriented up, the blast would go up and any opposite reaction would be into the ground and that might ease the concerns of some here. At any rate , I would be interested in your final product. How come I didn’t know you were working on this?

                    • Halfstep,

                      If I recall, on a scale of 1-4, they are a 3. (5/8″ long). I spent a couple of hours putting it together this AM and still need a final tweak or two which I may do later today. Overall, things worked out exactly as planned.

                      It weighs 8-9# and is 10.5″ long, 5.5″ wide and 5″ high. The “pin” is a 4″ long, 3/16″ pan head bolt and is spring loaded to hold it against the rim. It is an in-line set up. The bolt has three 1.5″ fender washers (so they don’t bend with a pellet hit) to act as a target. The back of the cartridge is held with a removable plate and can be reloaded in about 15 seconds.

                      I am just hoping that a pellet hit will have enough force to do the job. Will the 3/16″ bolt bend upon impact? It can only move forwards the same amount that it can compress the rim,… a few thousandths. It will interesting.

                      I will take some pics and send them to GF1 and he can put them up, but I want to test it first. That may be 3 weeks out, or more. This weekend is rain and next weekend may be out all together.

                  • Chris USA,

                    Is the end of the bolt ground to a wedge shape like a firing pin or do you have the end of the bolt flat and covering the entire bottom of the cartridge? Or alternatively, flat and resting against a small section of the rim? If you get plenty of BANG with that size would you consider going lower if you can still get a good result?

                    Sorry for all the questions but I’m intrigued. I like targets that go BOOM myself and have been toying with the idea of fabricating a limiter plate for 20 oz. air-pressurized soda bottles. They are almost too easy to hit at the distances that assure a big blast when hit, so I am thinking of a steel holder that would protect all but a tiny spot on the bottle. Similar to a field target. Rings with different sized holes could be employed for different skill levels and ranges.

                    • Halfstep,

                      Yes, it is “intriguing”,…. The Grade ? 3/16″ cap head screw is stock. I figure that it may be a bit soft, so I wanted to leave all the material I could, hopefully deterring any “mushrooming” effect. The full 3/16″ is directly behind the rim with maybe just a tad hanging off.

                      If anyone thinks that this set up will not will not provide a sufficient “hit” to the rim,…. now is the time to speak up.

                    • Halfstep
                      Something like this.
                      /product/airburst-megaboom-supersonic-target-system-sts-pressure-gauge?a=5220
                      These are cool too.
                      /product/airgun-golf-exploding-golf-ball-9ct?a=7932

                      Or you can drill a hole in a bottle cap and use a valve stem from a tire.

          • BB
            You know what. You should add the .22 rimfire blanks into your report about rimfire rounds.

            It would be interesting to know why they came about. I got some ideas of their uses. But would be somewhat interesting to hear about them.

          • B.B.,

            (Thank you very much). Of that,… I was not aware. The set up/containment is 3/4″ steel plate. The hole is through drilled, so no/minimal back pressure and the cartridge is backed up solid. After some serious thought, from some comments, I did show restraint and respect for the subject matter at hand. 25 yards (minimum) on testing.

            Should it work, which I think that it will,… it could be a very marketable product. I was very lucky to be able to put my hands on some solid components. At least it is a prototype.

            Chris

            • Chris
              There might be restrictions of some sort. Don’t know for sure what. So might be a problem marketing. You know because it will be used with gun powder.

              Anyway. At least your making you one.

              • GF1,

                If you can drive an anchor with one,… then you ought to be able to make a reactive target with one. No more than a bang. Nothing more. A target activated with an (air gun), I might add.

                Since Coduece is in the air gun market already, maybe I will just sell the rights for a mere 5% and then I can retire,… ehh? 😉

                • Chris
                  Like I said just a thought. Don’t know how it truly works.

                  But here might be the catch. They allow the nail cartridges for construction. Soon as you call it a (gun) target that explodes they might have restrictions. Again just thoughts. But I would like to know.

  10. B.B.,

    Is the right stuff ATF sealant or ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid)?

    I tried a specific product, an ATF sealant, a while ago on a non-pumping Benji 392PA and S&W 77A. It didn’t help either hold at all, but I am concerned it is the wrong stuff because it made the 392PA pump MUCH harder. It’s Lucas Transmission Fix — “Stops slips cleans and lubricates sticking valves for proper shifting Polymeric film renews worn bands to stop slipping Renews worn transmission fluid Stops leaks / hard shifting.”

    Anyone know if this is OK? (It is compatible with plain old automatic transmission fluid and can go right in with that into the tranny, I was told.)

    Michael

      • B.B.,

        What I have is indeed an ATF sealant. I remember looking for Bar’s at the time, but the auto parts store I went to had a number of brands, but not that one.

        Anyone know of a solvent that will clean out a pumper but leave the chrome alone?

        Michael

        • Michael,

          I use naphtha (AKA white gas or camp-stove fuel) for cleaning/degreasing.

          It doesn’t smell nearly as bad as regular gas or varsol and doesn’t leave any residue. It won’t attack varnished/painted surfaces, plastic or rubber parts.

          Like all the solvents it should be used in a ventilated area and kept away from sparks or flame.

          You (definitely) want to stay away from acetone, benzine, toluene and other similar solvents – nasty stuff.

          Hope this helps.

          Hank

      • B.B.,

        I will call different auto parts stores to see if they have Bar’s, but I just now saw your answer to Jim, “The brand makes no difference,” so if no one has Bar’s, I’ll try something else (something other than the Lucas brand sealer). I figure that at this point I have nothing to lose, so whatever it is, drip it in an’ go for it! :^)

        Michael

  12. MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT!

    For those of you who have not seen this, the 2018 GTA Fun Shoot will be held in northern Arkansas this year. Here is a link to the announcement.

    https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139450.0

    I would very strongly recommend that if you want to have a great time with a bunch of fellow airgunners, this is the event to attend. It will be May 18-20.

    BB, if you could attend and do a blog on the happenings, it would be awesome. Lloyd will be there this year. I was going to attend but life dictates that I cannot be away from home base that long.

    Make your plans now! I have been to several of the GTA Fun Shoots and had a great time!

      • Carl,

        A LimbSaver brand butt pad (large) will fit PERFECT and add 1″ LOP,… in case you are wanting some. They are about 24$. Nice job on the scope. That is a big bugger! 😉 The ring height looks nice too, with little space between the objective bell and the barrel. The “engraving” is beautiful, isn’t it? Laser done I imagine, but it is so nice and very detailed.

        • GF1
          Ok nothing super great but definitely showing some potential. You know I’m talking about me and not the TX200. The labeled fourth group I don’t know what happened with two of the three errant shots but one was my first shot and it kind of went off before I realized I pulled the trigger. but seven went in the smallest group I’ve ever shot at fifty yards so I’m pretty stoked about it

          • Coduece
            That group on the left at 50 yards looks like professional shooting to me. 🙂

            Happy for ya.

            The flyers. Well that could be numerous reasons. I say try different pellets. I know Chris has shot 15.89 JSB’s as well as the 18.13 pellets. My .22 Tx liked JSB 15.89’s and yes I tryed the 18.13. And shoot multiple days. Things change on different days.

            But think about this maybe you got a different shooting style than Chris. Or as we know it. Technique. I say try some 15.89’s and see what happens. Th gun might like (you) shooting the 15.89’s.

            Heck remember when your trying pellets your still getting shooting time in. The more you shoot the better. In more ways then one. 🙂

            • GF1
              That’s the first time in, well i can’t remember the last time I shot. But I’m encouraged and excited by the accuracy of this gun. It’s rainy here today, figures first day off in two months and it’s gotta rain. But tomorrow looks good hope to post more groups.
              Carl

              • Coduece
                Raining and windy here today. I have the breezeway to shoot out of to stay dry. But no way to get away from the wind outside.

                I was hoping to get some group’s on paper on my Condor SS. Yesterday it is looking promising after I tightened up the top hat on some group’s I shot.

                And I know what you mean about all those work hours. It bothers me if I loose a Saturday when I have to go in and work. They called me in early yesterday so that cut my day at home short. Then I get there and they are having problems with electric comming into the building. So they sent us all home so the electric company could do their work. So by time I got home it was dark and couldn’t shoot. So that was kind of agrivating.

                But make sure you post some groups if you do get a chance to shoot.

          • Carl,

            Very nice! 🙂 The 18.13’s looked to group at 3/4″ based off the 3/4″ pink dot. It did seem to like the 18.13’s the best, for me. You have the actual targets, so you can look back and see. The 15.89’s ran a close second. Like anyone, I had my bad days and good days. I most often use the mm scale on a ruler to measure groups. I find that it is good enough for me and easier than 1/16’s and more convenient than calipers.

            ** Also of note, from the near complete lack of paper tearing,.. I would say that there is some duct tape on the back of that target paper. 😉 Maybe?

            • Chris
              Yes those targets were backed with duct tape and it works great and so do the stickers. I didn’t think I would like the small dots but I think they’re my favorite. I have some Air Arms heavies 18 gr I cant wait to try and I think your right about the JSB 18.13 pellets being best the gun seemed smoother shooting with them. I can’t thank you enough not just the gun but the friendship!
              Carl

              • Coduece and Chris
                Figured since you all was talking about duct tape backing a target. Here is a picture of my stop.

                It’s two 2×4’s with a 1/8″ still plate on the back side. The front has about a inch of phone book on it. Then I tape it together.

                It will stop .22 rimfire that’s making 112 fpe no problem. I use white copy paper the size of the target stop and use masking tape to hold the target on.

                I can go about 5 or so targets before I tape again. And when I do tape again. I tape the opposite way. In other words horizontal then the next time the tape would run vertical. The target stop actually gets better the more it’s used and taped.

                It will go a long time before I got to cut the tape and phone book off the front. Then I just put a new 1″ thick peice of phone book on the front and retape.

                Eventually the wood does start getting ate up. Then it’s time to start all over. Probably 3 or 4 months before it’s time for new wood and such. And you know I shoot alot. So actually would last longer for people that don’t shoot as much as I do.

                Oh yeah, and I do stretch the tape tight when I’m doing the front. Here is the picture. Then I’ll post another picture with my copy paper target taped to the stop with masking tape.

                  • Coduece
                    I started out with the gray stuff. Then went to black Gorilla tape. It worked much better but was expensive. I now get some for the local farm supply store called Rural King. It’s black but not as strong as Gorilla tape. But stronger than the gray tape. And it costs a third of what the Gorilla tape costs.

                    But yep I’m sure I contributed to some ones retirement plan with all the tape I bought over the years.

                    Speaking of over the years. That’s how I came up with my target stop. The house I lived at was semi in the country. I had a good place to shoot but some house about a hundred yards away to the left of me. I basically came up with the target stop to reduce noise at the target. Heck my .25 Marauder and .25 Talon SS I had back then made my steel spinners ring louder than the guns shot noise. So yes my stop is silent in a sense. I can hear the guns noise but not the pellet hitting the stop. Although I will say this .25 Condor SS I have now does thump the target stop pretty good. I can hear the pellet hit for sure with this gun.

          • Coduece,

            Looks like you got yourself a good looking and good shooting gun for sure. That JSB group has real potential. As to the flyers, I find quite a few bent skirts in my .22 caliber JSBs in those monster-sized tins. If you weren’t checking them closely ( in your , no doubt, unparalleled excitement ) a couple aerodynamically challenged ones may have slipped in there.

            I’ve seen enough welding tanks marked ” M T ” by some millwright that I was able to translate and DO know what ” I D K ” means. ( but it did take a minute. I’ve been away from the language for a few years now ) 😉

            • Halfstep,

              I have never found a bent pellet in a large can from P.A.. Most of mine are .22 too. But yes, it does pay to look. Then again, we all spoke about bent skirts and any affect on accuracy. It seems there is little, if any affect, much to my disbelief. GF1 has done some test.

              ** B.B. was going to do some testing mixed in with his regular testing,… or was it to be an exclusive test/blog? Did he forget? 😉

              At any rate,.. I do not like shooting bent pellets at all. I do not even like them for chrony work. Maybe just plain plinking,.. but nothing beyond that.

              You lost me on the MT and the IDK stuff there. Apparently I do not speak that language.

            • Halfstep
              Yeah I’m blaming part of it on being rushed I had about an hour to get set up and shoot before I had to get ready for going out with Mrs. Coduece. That’s never conducive to good relaxed shooting.

              • Carl,

                I am in 100% agreement on being rushed or pressured in any way. Having the must to-do chores out of the way helps too. Trying to beat a rain storm does not usually work out well either. Since I have to get set up a bit, (outside, several trips), I like to leave things set up for several hours and take breaks every so often.

                For me, that makes all the difference in a good shooting session or a possibly poor one.

        • RR
          I’m using the mounts that came with the most awesome scope I’ve ever owned, as a matter of fact I’m buying another. The dove tail adapters have stop screws which I am using but the screw is so small and I noticed that the rear stop screw hole has a small indention from recoil so I’m going to remount the scope and use a larger set screw in the rear hole then butt the scope mount up against it. I don’t understand how such a smooth shooting gun can have so much force working against the scope. Btw I love that scope!
          Carl

          • Carl,

            That small indent was there already. That is from trial and error phase of scope mounting. Yes, it will bounce a scope around. I tried quite a few mounts and came up with that 1 drooper mount with stop and 4 screws and separate low rings that I recommended before.

            I do not care for the adapters like you have, no offense. It is just another “link” that might have movement and/or a weakness.

            Just make sure that the pin that is in the adapter is {all the way} towards the butt end (in the stop pin hole in the dovetail on the gun)

            • Chris
              Yes I agree about the adapters I think I’m going to spring for the premium mounts RR recommends. And I want to post a pic of your trigger stop it’s awesome and I might get around to doing this to my HW50 today since it’s going to rain all day.
              Carl

              • Carl,

                You might be able to accomplish a stop with just trigger adjustments. I do not know. BB might? I am pretty sure the trigger is set the same as the factory. I do not recall ever adjusting it. If I did, (I kept notes) incase of wanting to reverse things. Plus, you have a new stock trigger guard as back up incase you want it back to stock.

                For others, that screw is tapped through the back of the guard. The soft gas line tubing (clear, weed eater type) acts as a lock washer, but one that has some “squish” for fine adjustments. Vary the tubing length if you want to vary the screw position more.

                • Chris,

                  So you sold Carl your TX200 huh? I always thought of getting one, but even though it is a superbly accurate sproinger, something stopped me. I think it is that I would have to have a walnut stock and it is such a beautiful piece of eye candy, I would be afraid of scratching it. That is one of the reasons I sold off my FWB 601. It was immaculate. I was afraid to handle it.

                  • RR,

                    Yes I did. I think that it found a very good home. It was my first really nice air gun and my first air gun in a very long time. “Someone” here,.. who shall remain nameless,.. turned me onto PCP’s and I have never looked back. I do not shoot enough to be worthy of a springer that takes some time and finesse to wring the best out it.

                    So you can say that I took the easy way out. Still got a killer accurate LGU though. 😉 Interested? 🙂

                    As for “too nice to shoot”,… I never really thought that way. I handled it carefully and shot it plenty. Too nice to shoot?,… that makes me think of that AA gun that they had up for a contest awhile back. Heck,.. I did not even care for the looks/paint. leather accents? Really? Some might drool over such things. Me? I was more in the “Huh?” crowd.

                    • Chris,

                      As for being interested in your LGU, part of me would really like to have it but I really have no need for it. I have a Diana 46E I am wanting to sell and four air rifle projects going on right now. It is really, really difficult to not have a huge collection of airguns.

                    • Chris,

                      LGU still available? I have TX200’s in both .177 and .22. Love both of my walnut trimmed babies. I have always liked the look of the LGU. Like you I have also moved on to PCPs but still might be interested in another quality springer if the price is right. If I remember correctly yours is a .22, right? Please send me an email about it. rshetler at cox.net. As you know at = @.

                      Randy

          • Carl,

            As you have found out, even the TX200 has recoil. I can feel the recoil on my old gals and they are at about half the power of that TX200. I had a Gamo CFX that I had a mount specially modified for. When you break bad and get those mounts I told you about, be sure to do as BB recommended and put a set screw in the hole behind the back mount.

  14. BB and Fellow Airgunners
    I hope what I have to say can prevent heartache for other airgunners. I was shooting my Weihrauch HW80 in .20 cal off a Caldwell Rock Jr. rest. Instead of putting it away, I left it balancing on the rest as I have done many times in the past. I turned to get a new tin of pellets for my HW30 in .22 cal. As I turned around, I bumped the butt pad of the HW80. which sent it crashing 4 feet, barrel first to the tile floor. With the scope I was using, a Hawk 6.5-20x44mm, I would guesstimate the total weight to be close to 12lbs. The force of the barrel hitting the floor was enough to loosen every screw on the scope mounts, as well as the 4 screws that hold the action to the stock. My one saving grace was the muzzle break I had attached to protect the barrel crown in case of such an accident.
    I took the stock off, and inspected it for any cracks. I did the same for the action as well as the scope. Finding everything in order, I reassembled the airgun, making sure all the screws were snug. I took my first tentative shots, and found my groups were still averaging .5 inches at 25 meters with .13.85gr .20 cal Barracudas . I consider myself very lucky my rifle, and scope weren’t damaged due to my negligence. The front of my muzzle break has a flat spot where most of the force was taken.
    When my daughter was still living at home, I made a point of putting my airguns away before I started shooting something else, or at the end of a shooting session. Over the 10 years she has lived away from home, I have grown lazy, and consider this “accident” a wakeup call. Securing your airgun/firearm between shooting sessions is a lesson in safety my father taught me when I was 15 years old. As gun owners, we have to show a sceptical public that the shooting sports are as safe as any other when proper training is applied.
    Ciao
    Titus

      • B.B,

        The term SAFETY makes us all sound so GEEZER like
        Having done two tours as The Safety Officer in aviation squadrons I know where we get it from.
        The up-to-date term is Risk Management. Someone decided that to be SAFE we need to just do next to nothing…or fudge the paperwork. Unfortunately that usually means less that optimal mission accomplishment. Sort of like the Deputy(ies) in FL t/he/y were SAFE but sadly the Risk all went to the students and staff.

        shootski

    • Titus,

      I had a similar accident today. One of my large 4,500 psi tanks rolled off a table and crashed on the floor. I had visions of the whole workshop being destroyed with me in it. My first action was to stop working on the new pantry and build a wall rack to hold the tanks when not in use. Now they are out of the way and stored safely.

      My cousin had a 12 gram CO2 cartridge get out of his pistol in the bedroom when we were kids that was scary enough, it circled the room a couple times without hitting us, but that is nothing like a hpa tank coming apart.

      Don

      • Don
        This ain’t nothing to joke about. I remember as a kid they had airplanes and car’s that was tethered on a line that ran about 75 yards. They accepted 12 gram Co2 cartridge’s. They had a flip open deal that would let the Co2 instantly. They were extremely fast.

        So yes precaution should always be taken no matter what is at hand.

        • GF1,

          I hope that did not come across as a joke. It was very dangerous and serious.

          One of my next projects is going to be a portable multi-gun rest. I have been thinking about one for a while. It is time to do it before I do have an accident with a gun.

          Don

          • Don
            No. That’s what I said. That is no joke.

            Like that is bad stuff. Don’t want that happening. Or I could say that is serious stuff. Nothing to joke about.

            That’s why the car and airplane example with fast relief of Co2.

            And the last statement of “So yes precaution should always be taken no matter what is at hand.”

            And yes it’s better to be thinking safe. Always.

            • KH,

              Got it. Give me till the weekend. Weeks are crazy with little week down time. I (will) get back to you. I had not thought price yet. Nice gun rack by the way.

            • Randy,

              That is a nice gun rack. I like the way it folds up. I made a couple, not as nice as yours. I glued some felt on the rack where the barrels rest with wood glue. Even after the glue dried, next day, maybe it was not dry it took the paint off some of my barrels. The ones that were blued were not effected.

              Thanks for the picture, more folks will see it if you post it on the current day,

              Don

        • GF1, I remember one bored evening working the service counter at a hardware store with the youngsters when we made a drop-fired mortar using 3/4″ copper pipe, a cap and a drywall screw, did that launch a 12 gram CO2 bottle! The firing range in the back of the store ended abruptly when we heard glass breaking in the distance!!!

      • Don,

        If it was one with the carbon fiber wraps, then I would consider getting it tested. That carbon fiber adds X amount of ability to allow higher pressure fills.

        My little buddy bottle has 2 wraps of 1/2″ foam matt around it. I got the base with it. The foam added 2″ to the diameter and is nice and stable to sit on a table. It never leaves the house. If I were to haul it around, it would be laid in a gym bag type bag and further padded with added protection at the valve end.

        Just my 2 cents.

    • Titus
      Very good points.

      This is me. I always shoot multiple guns at a time. Including firearms. I rotate through the ones I choose for the day. So I do have a bit of procedure I follow.

      First all my guns are laying down on the side of the gun in a location.

      All pellets are in a designated area.

      The gun I’m shooting gets put back in it’s spot as well as the pellets come off the bench.

      Next I change my bag height for the next gun I shoot with 2×4’s used as risers.

      Then I put that tin of pellets on the bench.

      When I’m done shooting that gun or I have to leave that area I always make sure that I don’t have the gun loaded and then it goes back to it’s place to wait. Never on the rest.

      What I learned over time is no matter what procedure you put in place to follow you can forget. Always make sure you have the gun in a non fire state and in a safe waiting place. No matter how much you think you remember you followed your procedure. Check that the gun is safe before you go on.

      And yes one of my air guns got knocked over while resting in a corner waiting to be shot. I think my wife closed a door and the gun bumped and slid down hitting everything along the way. Not good in many different ways.

      So yes I have learned and thank you much for the reminder.

    • Titus Groan,

      I have had many near misses under those same circumstances. I have several different rests that all have a material where the gun sits that is just plain slippery and is shaped in such a way that the gun has very small points of contact. The gun will be sitting there just fine one minute, then a puff of wind will shift it a little and the top heavy nature of a mounted scope will run with it and the whole works starts headin’ for the dirt! I’ve come back from resetting targets to find my gun half on the table and half in my chair and I have lost track of the times that the gun has shifted while I was opening a tin of pellets and I had to grab the gun at the expense of slinging pellets everywhere.

      You wrote,”Instead of putting it away, I left it balancing on the rest as I have done many times in the past.” as if letting it just sit there while you turned around to get a tin of pellets wasn’t the natural thing to do. And some here have characterized that practice as unsafe. If the gun is unloaded, how is that so? Securing your gun between sessions is one thing but is it really necessary to unmount your gun every time you take both hands off of it for just a minute? I question whether that is a common practice among shooters. I don’t usually have this issue with sand bags but it doesn’t always work out that they are what I’m using. I think I’m going to modify my rests to make them tackier and shaped better.

      I’m glad your gun is OK.

      • Halfstep,

        I only use a front rest. On occasion, I will rig up a temporary rear rest, but usually only when I am checking a tune or accuracy for the first time. My table is big enough to lay a half folded, (length ways), bath towel besides the rest. That is where any non-bi-podded gun rest when not in use. If I were to shoot multiple guns at once, or have several out at once, I would have a standing gun rack, for sure. My bench is about 50′ from my front door, so I just walk back in and get the next gun I want to shoot. Same for PCP fills. I go back inside.

        • Chris USA,

          My benches are small and although they are sometimes right out side my back door, Mrs.Halfstep is not going to put up with too much going in and out, especially in the summer when it lets her AC out. 😉

          If I want to shoot at more than 25 yards the setup is more distant and even with my collapsible pull cart I have to use the Minimalist approach to my equipment to make it reasonably convenient to set up. I seldom shoot more than one gun in a session for that reason. Once I’m set up, going back to the house means leaving all of my stuff out of my sight and unsecured until I return.

          • Halfstep,

            I got a good laugh and chuckle out of ” Mrs. Halfstep “. “Go ahead and go to your Man Cave and do your Manly thing’s,…. just do not disturb me!”

            I’m sorry,.. was that “Mrs. Halfstep” or “Mrs. Mom”? 😉 Just funnin’ with ya’ there a bit.

            P.S.,… Don’t tell her I said that,… she sounds like a “tuff cookie”,….. 😉

        • Chris U,

          I like to use a rear rest because I get less pulse movement if I don’t have to shoulder the gun, as such. Also I need to be able to aim the gun hands off while I double check the parallax as I change distances, as we discussed the other day. If I’m shouldering the gun it and the scope moves when I start moving my head around.

          • Halfstep,

            I do understand and all very good points.

            On the parallax shift,… WHY does it require that the scope be a bit out of focus,… just to be able to remove reticle shift when moving the head? Why? I remember (definitely) diving into that topic, but do not recall arriving at any definitive answer. At least not one that recall. You know how that recall stuff can be? 😉

            • Chris USA,

              Once I lock the rear focus down to keep the reticle in sharp focus, I find on many of my scopes that when the A.O. is adjusted ( all of my scopes have the adjustment in front) to bring the target into perfect focus the parallax is still off. By that I mean that if I move my head around while looking through the scope the reticle seems to move relative to the bullseye or other aimpoint I choose, meaning that if I don’t get my cheek back to the same spot each for each shot I will think that I am aimed at the bull, when in fact, I am not and the gun will seem inaccurate. I will actually be aiming the gun at many different spots. When that happens I have to compromise by adjusting the AO until there is no parallax error when I move my head, but is leaves the target in less than perfect focus.

              The other day I was trying to establish whether this is ever encountered with the more expensive scopes that I have come to know that you and others here use. I am most concerned with it when I am testing a new gun for accuracy or trying a new pellet in a gun. I don’t trust my “cheek weld” yet and have found that I get better accuracy with the less that ideal focus and perfect( or near as I can get) parallax adjustment than I do with perfect sight picture and any parallax error. I usually shoot at the highest magnification as well, which I think aggravates the condition.

              • Halfstep,

                You are where I am at,.. or was at. As for high end scopes,… nope. UTG’s, which are nice and offer a lot for the money. I have never looked through a high end scope. 1 Hawke on the LGU, but I still like the etched glass UTG’s better.

                As for high magnification, (16X in my case), I find that when shooting outdoors,… the picture gets a bit “hazy”. As a test, I did 16X indoors at 41′ recently and the picture was perfect. Perfect! The only thing that I am left to believe is that the conditions (atmospherics) between me and the target are to blame. High magnification for sure affects the sight picture’s movement. Hence the benefit of a rear rest. I do intend to try the higher magnification end more this shooting season.

                • Asking each one of you the same question.

                  Do any of you exsperiance the movement when you look through the scope you have that your talking about?

                  What magnification do you use, what brand scope and what distances.

                  Is the scopes side focus or front focus. For the object sight.

                  Just would like to know what you all see.

                  • GF1

                    I have a Hawke Sport HD 3-9x50AOIR scope mounted on my RWS34P. I have the magnification dialed up to 9X and leave it there. When I have the AO set for a clear focus on the target I get very little movement of the reticle when I move my head side to side. Maybe this is something that occurs more with cheaper scopes?

                    I have not gotten my new UTG 3-12×44 scope yet for the Urban. I am hoping that won’t have any parallax issues either. It is a $149 scope at Pyramyd.

                    • Geo
                      Maybe so with the cheaper scopes.

                      If anything we all have become aware.

                      Hopefully it will make us better shooters

              • Halfstep,

                My take comes with little info from you on if you are talking about a scope (first focal or second?) that is sighted in at longer range for a airgun; if you have dialed in lots of elevation to make up for the loopy pellet trajectory. One final question; before all this suspected parallax problem started is did you optically center the scope(s)
                The slight head nod done to check for no parallax is supposed to be very small. If you move your “head around” even a Schmidt and Bender multi $$$$.$$ scope will show retical on target movement even if set up perfectly.

                My two centavos; you know what they say about free advice especially on the internet

                shootski

                • Shootski,

                  The elevation and windage adjustments have nothing to do with my issue. The problem would still be present if I took the adjustment screws all the way out. It stems from, I believe, not being able to get the reticle and the target to be on the same focal plane. I have been able to make it go away on some scopes by taking them apart and screwing the reticle into a new position that is more forward or rearward in the tube. Not all scopes can be autopsied this way, I suppose, and I wouldn’t have attempted it on an expensive scope. The reticle on those scopes was a threaded ring with a cross hair welded to it that I could screw in or out, reassemble, readjust, assess whether it was better or worse, disassemble and repeat until the parallax error was gone and the target was in fine focus. Then you disassemble and super glue the reticle in place, followed by one more reassembly and adjustment and a pat on the back for only taking three or four hours to make a $35 scope as good as any $75 scope. 🙂

                • Asking each one of you the same question.

                  Do any of you exsperiance the movement when you look through the scope you have that your talking about?

                  What magnification do you use, what brand scope and what distances.

                  Is the scopes side focus or front focus. For the object sight.

                  Just would like to know what you all see.

                  • Gunfun,

                    I have gotten to borrow my son’s Schmidt & Bender for one hunt in Utah mounted on 30-06 and it didn’t show movement with the very small head nod I pointed out earlier.
                    My personal go to scopes on my air rifles are three Leupold Vari- XIII AO 6.5-20 X 40mm EFR USMC Mildot, built in the late 1990’s by Dick Thomas (RIP) of premier Reticles, Ltd. (Long defunct company.). With those Leupolds I have no problems as well as an “old” Bushnell Legend AO 5-15 X 40mm Mildot. Both of those are collimated and witness marked to be at Mildot 10X. The Leupold is also 1/2 at 20X, the Bushnell is my mid price scope. I have recently purchased two T.O. Series SF 4-16 X 40 Mildot (my first ever side focus) from Trenier Outdoors and am still trying to decide if it is me or the scopes? I think I’m seeing more parallax with them than I have seen before. The side focus turret is not at all accurate on my measured back yard range ABOVE 25 yards; they are my lowest cost optics and I haven’t had enough time with them. I’m planning on unmounting them optically recentering, again, using different bases and giving them one more try at an indoor 100 yard range with great lighting using sight in commercial targets so I can rule out the parallax problems I think I’m seeing and also box them on the target. The rest of my aiming tools are Iron sights or VORTEX Prismatic 3X Spitfire BDC DOT Sight and none of those suffer parallax.

                    Hope that’s what you were asking for

                    shootski

                    • Shootski
                      I have Hawke and UTG scopes.

                      The Hawke scopes are true mildot scopes at 10 magnification which is what magnification that most scopes are true at. The UTG scopes are dot reference scopes.

                      The scopes you are talking about might be good for long range on a firearm. But at the distance that air guns are used at along with the shot cycle of a air gun it takes a special scope to work on a air gun.

                      And the scopes your talking about might not even be parrellax free at air gun distances.

                      Go to the bottom of the comments and read the link I posted. Tell me how hat you get out of it.

              • Halfstep
                Thanks for describing the same problem I had yesterday. I was trying to achieve perfect focus then I would check for parallax by moving my head slightly and I was getting cross hair movement. So I’m a little confused about what to focus on ( no pun intended) myself. I’m going to work on it tomorrow’. And what about wearing reading glasses while using a scope.
                Carl

                • Coduece,

                  As BB pointed out to me the other day, the rear ocular adjustment will take care of any eyesight problems that deal with focus, including farsightedness. If your reticle is in focus the eyesight aspect is covered. With an astronomical telescope ( and binoculars ) it is a common practice to leave your glasses off all together so you can eliminate a reflective surface and to get your eye closer to the eyepiece. The ocular ( eye piece ) adjustment does the job of your glasses.

                  I personally prefer to have the parallax removed even if the target image is a little blurry. I generally shoot at targets that are essentially dots of one size or another. A small dot will just appear a little larger in diameter if it is a little out of focus. The center of it will still be in the same place. That’s my rationale, anyway.

                  You can even get the target in focus and the parallax perfect at the expense of a blurry RETICLE, but I wouldn’t recommend that option.

              • Asking each one of you the same question.

                Do any of you exsperiance the movement when you look through the scope you have that your talking about?

                What magnification do you use, what brand scope and what distances.

                Is the scopes side focus or front focus. For the object sight.

                Just would like to know what you all see.

                • GF1,

                  For my part it has been with Mantis, Gamo, Winchester and some others that I can’t recall right this minute. They are all front adjusting AO and it shows up most when using whatever the highest power of the scope is and becomes less obvious as you go down in power. I don’t think it goes away, I think it is just harder to see, just like it would be harder to tell that you were aiming 3/8 of an inch too far to the right at 50 yards on 4X. ( at least it would be for me and that’s why I use the highest power available ) It would be more obvious at 24 X. If you have a good repeatable cheek weld you would never notice it unless you made a point of looking for it. I don’t have that quality of cheek weld. Yet!

      • Halfstep
        Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my explanation. What I was trying to say was instead of reaching for a tin of.22 pellets to shoot my next airgun, I should have put the HW80 away, instead of leaving it balanced on the rest. My mind was on shooting my HW30, and perhaps this slight lapse in concentration was the cause of knocking the HW80 over. I thought my experience would make others pause when like me, we shoot 4-5 different airguns at one session.
        As I mentioned, I had done this many times before. Sometimes leaving an empty airgun on the rest for a day, or two. I had grown lazy, and it almost cost me one of my favourite air rifles. Not to mention the replacement cost of a $500.00 scope, and an equal amount for the airgun. My German Shepherd, Oscar, nearly knocked one of my guns over while it was on the rest. He had spied a squirrel outside the window where I shoot, and went after it, brushing the airgun as he raced to the window to let the squirrel know he wasn’t wanted. Luckily I managed to catch it before it hit the floor. It’s always better to be safe then sorry.
        Ciao
        Titus

        • Titus,

          You were probably perfectly clear. I was just unobservant. Didn’t notice the difference between the 8 & 3 in HW80 & HW30.

          Can I take it that you DO sometimes leave your gun sitting in the rest for a minute or two at a time ? I do and with poorly designed rests I have had those near misses that I mentioned.

  16. Johncpen, (from a 2015 blog post interested in .22 Maximus trigger tunes)

    [First],.. look on YouTube for anyone getting inside the trigger box. Pay attention to how things come apart. Hopefully you will find something.

    [Second],… go to the Crosman site and go to the (bottom of the home page). Click on the link for user manuals. Download the PDF file for the Maximus and study the trigger group. This may take you to that point. If not, just go to the site.

    https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/sections/200658090-Benjamin-and-Sheridan-Air-Rifles?page=2#articles

    [Do those 2 things first]. That is part of doing your homework/due diligence and something that anyone should do.

    Also, allow me to ask,..
    – Are you comfortable getting inside a rather simplistic trigger group?
    – Do you consider yourself to have some mechanical aptitude? (work good with basic tools and can look at a diagram or schematic and see/envision how things work)
    – Do you take full responsibility for your actions? (you could render the trigger unsafe, the gun will not work or you could end up with a pile of parts)

    I am not trying to be rude in anyway. Those are just the basic requirements for (anyone) looking to modify/tune an air gun.

  18. Chris USA,

    My thoughts on the bolt shape is that it should be wedged to leave an impression like you would see on a spent .22 cartridge. Your arrangement may generate more force than a firearm hammer does, in which case it could work as is. If you have ever used the anchor set that these are meant for, maybe that could give you a clue. I’ve never used one. I think the rim has to be “pinched” to detonate, though. If it is possible, since you already have this setup, I think I’d try it as is and if it fails use a file or Dremel to reprofile the bolt in the critical area and try again.

    If this doesn’t work maybe shotgun primers and a centerfire arrangement?

    • Halfstep,

      I would agree. I had options, but attaching the fender washers to act as a target was a non-option/tuff. Hardening the tip of the Grade ? screw tip may be another option. The screws are cheap, so if I get a few good hits out of one, that would be good too. I am really just playing around. I like to get an idea and then see if I can make it happen. Then,.. I get bored with it and onto the next one! 😉

      That is probably some kind of “disorder” that I can’t pronounce,… but hey,.. that is me. 🙂

  19. Finally got the Condor SS dailed in.

    Got all the info on the target other than that I had to go from 6 on the power wheel adjuster. Started at 6 then 5 then 4 then 3. There was no velocity change from 6-3 but dropped way off on 2. So I chose 3 on the power wheel. Then established my full and ending fill pressure by shooting and watching poi change. Then I chronyed to see what velocity it was at. That was the JSB 33.95’s. then after it was dailed in I tryed the Baracudas next. Both pellets I topped off the gun to the full fill. And both pellets poi was low on the first shot. The valve definitely needed to be woke up after the fill.

    And I do believe that the gun is getting better groups now is partly the little lower velocity than it was making at the power wheel setting on 6 compared to 3 that I’m using now. Plus it don’t have the abrupt shot cycle. It’s more smooth like a PCP should be. To much air flowing pushing the gun and the hard hit of the striker.

    Anyway here is a picture of what it’s shooting now. And what I started with when I got it.

    • Here is what it was on power setting 6. The group’s are similar but more opened up. Now on the picture above they are a bit tighter in.

      But the JSB’s will be the pellet. I’ll use the Baracudas as back up.

      • And I pull my shots to the right. The gun wants to move to the right if I don’t have my trigger hand grip set. That’s how I pull the shot. I squeeze the trigger to soon. In other words getting ahead of myself before I’m actually set to shoot.

  20. GF1,

    Does that gadget with the gauge stay on the bottle? I bought 2 packs of ten of those Big Blast caps that I think are marketed by Air Venturi. That is what I was going to use to pressurize my bottles. My contraption would just be something to set in front of the bottle to give a small hole to shoot at to make it challenging. Tannerite cost to much. Plastic pop bottles can be found for free anywhere, unfortunately even in the most remote woods.

  21. GF1,

    Have you ever tried these. /product/umarex-big-blast-target-inflator-caps-10pk?a=7869

    I put a little scoop of firepit ashes in the bottle to give it some visual OOPH! They are great but too easy to hit. If they don’t get hit hard enough they just hiss, so you can’t set them up too far away. ( with your Condor SS that may not be an issue 😉 ) That’s where my contraption comes in.

    • Halfstep
      Here is something I do for the kids when we have get together’s. And note we are a shooting family. Both sides of my family growing up and same with my wife’s family. I hunted with my wife’s brother as a kid growing up and throughout life.

      So I don’t want someone going what the heck. But when we have get together’s we shoot and this is something I do for the kids. I take tin cans and blow up a small balloon and blow it up. Then gently push it in the can. Then put some flour or corn starch or Kool aid powder over the balloon. It makes a nice little poof that appears to be smoke.

    • Halfstep,

      The other thing that I encountered was that if I was to use something hardened and round,.. and ground the tip into a wedge shape,… was how do I keep the wedge in the optimal orientation to impact the rim? Flat ground sides with guides was an idea.

      Centering punches were an option. So were long drill bits. Again,.. the ability to attach the fender washers as a target head was the hurdle to overcome.

        • Halfstep,

          Good concept. The 3/16″ runs through a 3/8″ plastic bushing, so I have options. The front and rear halves are independent, but bolted together and both can be moved and adjusted. Thanks for the idea.

    • Halfstep
      Yep and I was trying to find them to post a link but couldn’t find them at PA. I thought they had them but I believe it is AGD that has them.

      And I want to try some of those exploding golf balls that I posted the link to above. Nice 100 yard targets for my Condor SS.

      And I might as well post this here. I’m guessing everyone knows what that is in the picture I posted. It’s one of those things that go under a burner on a stove. It’s about a 1/16″ thick metal. And this is at 50 yards secured tight so no bounce or rebound when hit. And it’s the back domed side.

      I got the picture labeled of what gun hit where. But here is some data. I think this might surprise some people.

      Condor SS… JSB 33.95…900fps…60fpe
      Condor SS… Baracudas..915fps…57fpe

      Maximus….. JSB 15.89…760fps…20fpe

      Gauntlet…… JSB 10.34…950fps…20fpe

      What may surprise some is look at the 20fpe Maximus hit and the 20fpe Gauntlet hit. Two different ways the energy transferred. The.177 Gauntlet punched the pellet through. The .22 Maximus put a big dent and did not go through.

      I thought it was a interesting test.

      • GF1,

        Yes it is. That kind of goes with your comment of pesting and do you want a pellet to go through something or stop within. Know your gun, power and penetration capabilities. An interesting target by the way. Not one I would chose though due to the rounded surface. The JSB looks to be on a bit of a “lean” on the Condor hit.

        • Chris
          Yep on the Gauntlet and Condor.

          Mass and velocity is what it’s about. And not only weight when I say mass. I mean diameter or how big overall the pellet is and how much it weighs..

          And here’s the the thing. The Maximus thumped the target hard. The Gauntlet and Maximus just bumped the target.

          And I bet if I moved in closer; who knows 5 yards closer and the .22 Maximus might of passed through. And maybe 5 more yards out the Gauntlet might not of went through as well as the Condor with Barracudas.

          Like you say you need to know your gun when you shoot. It don’t take much to make a big change when you talk ballistics.

        • I said wrong gun.
          “And here’s the the thing. The Maximus thumped the target hard. The Gauntlet and (Maximus) just bumped the target.”

          Should say…The Gauntlet and (Condor) just bumped the target.

      • GF1,

        If you look above I sent YOU a link. I like the balloon and powder idea. Good visual effect without a big BOOM that might disrupt a get together. Try the ashes and see how they do for ya. They are as cheap as it gets. Mo’ money left over for airgun shows when ya retire! 😉

    • Halfstep I have got a pack of those caps and I like them a lot. This is a lot of fun with them. Fill a bottle half to two thirds full of water, pressure to about 65psi and set it at an angle so you can shoot the bottom. They will fly like a water rocket. When the snow is gone here I will be able to do that again.
      Gerald

  24. After only the fourth time filling my stormrider I notice I’m not gaining any ground found a small leak around fill probe . Do need to replace seals already I have been lubing it with silicone grease it came with all kinds of seals ? Thanks
    Bill

    • Bill
      Will the gun fill to your full fill or does it take a longer time than usual to fill?

      Or does it fill ok then bleed down slow after you stop filling? If it does this it’s pretty normal. In other words fill. Then stop at the pressure you want. Then bleed off. If the gauge on the gun is correct you should be ok.

    • Well anyone read it yet?

      I’ll just say more than likely why I don’t see it is I’m a low magnification shooter.

      Why I don’t see it. Think about it. What happens when you look at a target at high magnification. It does that. It magnify’s. Look at the scope shake you see. So what will it do to the should I call it error from the lens shape. The lens is curved. Is it true in the center vision wise as out to the edge of the lens. I’m sure that error has to affect things. The sight shift at different magnification and focus.

      As it goes there’s more than meets the eye. 🙂

      • GF1,

        Another reason I think better scopes have less problems with parallax vs fine focus is because they have multi-element oculars that are similar to what quality astronomical telescopes use. By stacking many different lens shapes and using different types of glass the lens set can reduce the spherical aberration that your article mentioned, along with many other optical defects that are present when a single lens is used, at the eye or at the objective.

        As for the magnification factor, I mentioned way up there somewhere that it doesn’t show up as much for me and and my thoughts on why, at lower magnification.

        • Halfstep
          Yes the lens curve does change sighting.

          I talked about this with Chris years ago. It’s always better to use less hold over or under mildots when you shoot. The closer you can stay to reticle center the more true the sights will be. Again lower magnification.

        • Siraniko
          Sometimes iron sights are simply the best. I bet if more people gave them a try and stick to them they would be surprised. My eyes aren’t that good anymore. But I have (made) myself shoot open sight. And I must say I’m happy with myself.

    • GF1,

      Thanks for the link. I already understood most of the stuff concerning AO scopes but there were several revelations in the part about side focusing, of which I knew nada. And I now I have a good site to send other folks too when I find I can’t explain sufficiently in my own words.

      • Halfstep
        I thought that from what you said.

        Sight changing peices are definitely interesting. Speaking of that. I do wear my normal everyday glasses when I shoot. And I do focus the ocular lens for a crisp reticle while wearing them.

        After that it’s always 4 magnification for me. Yes even at a hundred yards. And you know what. I can even set my parallax at 50 yards or even a 100 yards and still not get reticle shift. And that’s shooting in at 35 or out at a 100 yards.

        But you know what. If I increase magnification then the reticle shift becomes apparent.

        Maybe that’s why people see it. And that is why I shoot lower magnification. As it goes. I’ll say it again like I said in the past a scope is a magnifier. It will magnify more than you think.

        • Halfstep,

          I have posted this link in the past. It is (really good) and if you scroll down you can click on certain topics and some graphics will animate and you can play with adjustment buttons to see what the change does (in real time).

          I thought it might be valuable to the scope conversations that have been going on.

          http://www.arld1.com/

            • GF1,

              Yea,…. that one is a real GEM! It is a good one to keep saved to pop on a “newbie” when they arrive. Heck,… it is even good for us ol’ timers to help us (re)-remember stuff. 😉 It saves a WHOLE LOT of explaining stuff.

            • Gunfun1,

              It is a good link for sure. I can’t find anything factually wrong with it which is a rarity in this day and age. I have bookmarked it and hope it will still be there when I need it in the future.
              Interesting you should think my Leupolds are not airgun scopes! Dick Thomas and I spoke at length about setting up those scopes to be usable for very short range use as well as longer ranges. The EFR stands for Extended Focus Range; they focus down to 10 yards. The Bushnell does as well. I have learned from the links about Side Focus idiosyncrasies and that will help me with the two Trenier T.O. SF variable scopes.

              shootski

              • Shootski
                Here is what I wrote above.

                “Shootski
                I have Hawke and UTG scopes.

                The Hawke scopes are true mildot scopes at 10 magnification which is what magnification that most scopes are true at. The UTG scopes are dot reference scopes.

                The scopes you are talking about might be good for long range on a firearm. But at the distance that air guns are used at along with the shot cycle of a air gun it takes a special scope to work on a air gun.

                And the scopes your talking about might not even be parrellax free at air gun distances.

                Go to the bottom of the comments and read the link I posted. Tell me how hat you get out of it.”

                I said no such thing. Referring to this comment.
                “Interesting you should think my Leupolds are not airgun scopes!

                And glad you liked the link.

                • Gunfun1

                  The scopes I listed have all been used on airguns and PB for years and are the only scopes I talked about. We seem to be talking past one another! I’ll leave it at that.
                  No disrespect intended only seems to be a misunderstanding of words in your third paragraph.

                  shootski

                  • Shootski
                    Right I said a special scope. Nothing about next t air gun scopes.

                    Glad we got that straight. This air gun blog is beginning to be like work this weekend.

                    And all I wanted to do was be off this weekend and enjoy some shooting. 😉

                  • Shootski,

                    That is interesting as most of us here have been led to believe that PB scopes are not braced for the forward recoil of say,… a springer. (I am not interested in facts or anything at this point),… but perhaps that you can share some more personal experience (in the future). You obviously have some that differs from the “norm” way of thinking. I am always willing to listen to new points of view.

                    You know,… just in case I run upon a $1500 scope at a yard sale for $25 and wonder if I can use it on an air gun. 😉

  28. Hello All,

    I did not notice such in the above comments, but it seems YouTube has decided we are an unwholesome lot and is in the process of deleting all of the channels that deal with airguns. They have decided to side with those who would take away our 2nd Amendment rights with no thought of what will happen to their 1st Amendment rights.

    • RR,

      Air guns? Really? Where did you see this? Anywhere that you would trust to be (fact) worthy? I saw on the news where some entities were pulling NRA discounts and NRA saying that their members would stop supporting those companies, but nothing on YouTube and air guns. Quite a few of our favorite air gun reviewers use YouTube as their base of operation, unless mistaken. I do not know for sure as I rarely ever use/get on YouTube.

      An “unwholesome lot” we be,… ehh? Well, well,…. I have some rather MA Rated comments on that point of view. 😉

        • Siraniko,

          Thank you. I actually bought some of those red caps awhile back. They are pretty hard to hit each, but as a ring that would work. Nice, well made little fixture they came up with.

          I am really surprised on the air gun videos. There is way worse than air guns on the there. I assume this is going to carry over to firearms on YouTube as well? Heck,… anything that goes “bang”?

            • Halfstep,

              Uuuuuhhhh,… let’s just hold off on that idea for awhile, shall we? 😉

              I would expect to see an upcoming blog from B.B. on the matter in the near future. Since he is well connected in the air gun community, I am sure that some team work and rallying are going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of, that he may be aware of.

              I am not sure of the benefit of YouTube other than a mass audience potential. Still, on there or not, someone has to click on it and watch it, otherwise it just sits there.

              Maybe it is no big deal for a company like P.A. or others listed. I will bet though that it IS a BIG deal to someone like Ted’s Holdover which is a real shame. That poor guy was pretty choked up in the video,.. you could tell.

              • Chris U,

                I watch loads of YouTube stuff relating to airgunning and I for one am going to feel a great loss if they don’t get this squared away.

                If you want to hear an emotional plea go to AEAC. Steve can hardly get through it. He also has an interesting theory on why it is happening.

          • GF1,

            – Who owns the videos?
            – Are they gone forever?
            – Since P.A.’s got pulled down, can they just put them up on their own Home Page?
            – Why go after responsible air gun companies that go out of their way to promote safe air gun shooting?
            – What about the complete idiots? What will become of their videos? Take P.A.’s down and leave the idiots up? Yea,.. that makes sense.
            – Are they going after firearm sites?

            So many of the “small guy’s” used that with great success and furthered all of the information sharing that we all have become accustomed to.

            *** It sounds to me like a mass petition signing with the (all) affected parties that Ted’s Holdover listed would be a good start. A central link on all of the sites.

            I would boycott YouTube, but I don’t use them other than to watch a link posted here.

            • Chris
              I think it a bunch of B.S. actually.

              And yes maybe PA can get a online petition going and send it to YouTube.

              They did something similar years ago with some kind of gun law. I think it was about making all air guns a bright color so they were not identified as firearms.

              So maybe BB would know that answer.

      • Siraniko,

        Thank you for that. Everyone!,…. MUST watch this. It will give you a quick handle on this messy situation that is currently unfolding.

        Thanks again Siraniko,… Chris

  29. Hey BB,

    Thanks for the quick reply on the regulator failure thing. Would like to know if there would be a way to remove the regulator from the Marauder F&T.

    Want to play with tuning and the F&T is the only model I have available for purchase in my area.

    And by the way awesome blog. I find myself here multiple times a day going throw older articles.

    Thanks again!

  30. Well, some good news, My Wildfire is holding air both setting and shooting. I think I had two issues. One was the transfer tube and o-rings from the air reservoir to the valve and the other was the valve itself. It had a slow leak from 2000 to about 1200 I think that was the tube. It also would leak fast periodically when shooting, I think that was the valve.

    The last things I did was to polish the transfer tube ends where they go into the O-rings at each end, replace the valve o-ring with a larger one both ID and OD (fatter) and also spun the valve stem in a drill a few times as suggested by Halfstep. I did all these things at once so I do not know what made the difference. I also filled the pressure to more than 2000 psi on the first fill I think it was about 2400psi. That may have helped seat the valve?

    Any way it has been working for a week. I hope it keeps holding air now. Time to think about some fun plinking.

    Don

      • Don
        Glad to hear that. Now as you said. Time for some plinking fun.

        I haven’t shot my WildFire all week. Been concentrating on my Condor SS. Got it dailed in finally yesterday. Started getting repeating groups at about .750″ and no pulled shots or flyers. Took a little getting use to the guns shot cycle but got it now.

        So yep finally get to have some fun today and shoot. Going to get my WildFire right now and add it to today’s line up. 🙂

      • Halfstep
        I don’t mean to be answering for Benji-Don.

        But the o-ring in the valve is probably the one that the transfer tube from the resivoir slips in.

        There is a o-ring on each end of the tube.

      • Yep that is the O-ring GF1 was talking about it goes on the transfer tube at the valve and does not require taking the valve apart. There is a catch on the valve that holds the o-ring and has a washer and spacer on each side of the o-ring. Guess I should of took a picture.

        I shot three sets of 12 shots today and no issues with leaks. Accuracy is still less than I wanted. I need to order some H&N FTT and some Daisy wadcutter pellets to try. I don’t expect great accuracy but at least as good as my 1077.

        I see you folks have been busy today. It took me a half hour to get down to this comment.

        Don

        • Don,

          I know what you mean. On the weekend I always look at the slider bar on the right hand side of my computer screen. When it’s real small like it is this weekend I make sure I have a beer and a salty snack lined out before I start. 😉 I also know what O-ring you are referring to now.

          I know it is of no consequence to you, you just wanted your gun to work, but I hate that you didn’t try one fix at a time so we would know for sure. And that is in no way a criticism, it’s just my inner Maintenance Man crying out. 🙂

        • Don
          Just glad you got it figured out.

          I hate having to troubleshoot. Especially something new.

          As I said before though. It happens not only in cheap guns but expensive ones too. One of my FX Monsoons had both of these problems too. I even sent the gun back for them to work at n it since it was under warranty and so exspensive. And guess what. It still had the problem when it came back. Guess what. I don’t have that gun anymore.

  31. BB
    With this talk going on about YouTube videos. I was thinking about something else. And I myself would rather not have to go through YouTube to post a video on the blog.

    My video’s are usually only a few seconds long. Here is a question. Could something be set up on the blog like the picture posting but it will be for video’s. Like the picture can only be so big to post. Same for the video’s. They would have to be short.

    Do you think that is possible to do for the blog?

    • GF1,

      I don’t know if it is possible, but I have asked. You have to understand that this all costs bandwidth, and when it come to this blog, that means a dedicated server with a backup server. We are using that right now. Videos increase the bandwidth requirement by an order of magnitude.

      People think these things are free because for them, they are. But somebody has to shell out big bucks to keep everything running.

      We shall see.

      B.B.

      • BB
        I understand what you mean.yes it costs. But would be a welcome option on the blog. Then we don’t have to go through YouTube or other sites. Remember what it was like to post pictures before the option came available right on the blog. We had bad links that would redirect us to other sites. Plus with the blog option it happens pretty well instantly which helps when your trying to help with information someone needs.

        I think the video option directly through the blog would be a good thing.

  32. Everyone,

    I don’t know what is happening with You Tube, but I do know this. This is where opportunities are born!

    Over 30 years ago a sportsman’s trade show was giving the firearms displayers a hard time, so they split off and formed the National Shooting Sports Foundation. You probably have heard of their big show — the SHOT Show? The sporting goods show is gone and the NSSF is a 100+ million dollar institution.

    You Tube may be a big part of the internet, but they don’t own it. Time to innovate.

    B.B.

    • B.B.,

      Thank you for weighing in on the topic. Please keep us posted as things develop and if we can support in any way. Like I said,…. and I do not pretend to know,… but there is some really fine people with a big following on YouTube and they are often referred to and referenced right here. It is those “little” guys that I feel for. Many do a very fine job. And,… more info. and sharing of info. is always good,.. at least in my book anyways.

      Chris

    • BB
      Amen.

      Now is the time to get something rolling. What’s that saying. ” You snooze you loose”

      Well there is no time for loosing now. What would be the way to get something happening? And what better time and place for air gunners and even firearm owners to come together.

      Maybe it should of happened long ago.

      • Gunfun1,

        Firearm owners have an organization already…the National Rifle Association!
        What is see all to often is airgunners posting comments that “we” should distance ourselves from firearm owners and also Big BORE airgun owners to avoid being “Tared-With-the-Same-Brush”…. Well now! Looks like those airgunners didn’t realize that folks that can’t tell the difference between semi and automatic would look at the FL shooters gun bed photograph and not see that most were in fact airguns.

        If you are NOT an NRA member or not going to join in the next few days the you my friends will soon know how the Canadians feel, the Germans feel, the British feel, the Australians feel and a host of other SHOOTERS feel in so many other countries that have downed the Kool-Aide.

        Truth, mine
        Shootski

          • Gunfun1,

            They have an entire program for airgunners learn to shoot and qualification program, 10M Competition organization and rules, they support to school and other youth airgun and smallbore teams. At the Annual Convention they have an airgun range set up. Lots of information on it on the NRA sights if you look.

            Divided we shooters will fall! Working together we may prevail this time, but there will be many next times to keep fighting.

            Change.Org is behind a petition drive to get 25,000 signatures to get companies to drop NRA programs.

            Think what you will, this is not just about guns, this is about ideology and most of all culture.

            shootski

              • GF1,

                The NRA has more critical issues to deal with right now, so I would be surprised if the HOBBY of airgunning is going to get much of their attention at this time. On the other hand, as one who has mentioned many times how he comes from a family of shooters and has enjoyed his 2nd amendment right since he was a small child, I would have expected you to be a stanch supporter of the most influential organization that we have in America for that RIGHT. Instead it seems to me that you are challenging Shootski to show you why the NRA deserves our support. This print-driven form of communicating that we use here can cause misunderstandings because we don’t see facial expressions or other visual cues to give context to what we print , so if I’m wrong I apologize. Have I read it wrong?

                • Halfstep,

                  I believe you are correct in the fact that the NRA has a great deal on the plate right now.
                  Airguns unfortunately have no Federal or State constitutional protection. I was trying to point that out to my fellow airgunners who read this blog that we are all under attack for our shooting passion. That passion is rooted in a culture and we have seen an attack on it by folks with lots of money and celebrity all of which makes them feel powerful. They have played the situation to their benefit and we have not. Instead even today on many airgun forums posters are posting, “What is the NRA going to do for us?” I’m fairly certain those selfsame NRA questioners have no first-hand knowledge of the National Rifle Association. I don’t know what Gunfun 1’s point was and I am confused without a knowledge of his thoughts. I am disengaging from further comment since this is B.B.’s blog and he needs to state his informed position.

                  I am upgrading my National Rifle Association Life Membership this week. I’ll not ask what my NRA can do for airgunners , but I will support with my hard earned money the one organization which will work hard to keep my Second Amendment rights uninfringed!

                  shootski

                • Halfstep
                  Shootski brings up the NRA. We are talking about video’s being removed on you tube about air guns.

                  Here is my question again.

                  What can NRA do for this situation?

                  Do you know or does Shootski know.

                  My answer would be…No we do not know what NRA can do.

                  And like I said above.
                  “Halfstep
                  I watched. And yes hopefully YouTube will get a handle on it.

                  It doesn’t sound like it’s YouTube.

                  It sounds like someone organized a plan to use YouTube’s system in a corrupt way.

                  Maybe that’s illegal on those people’s part. Wouldn’t that be something if YouTube finds their doings wrong and implement’s a plan to hold them accountable for their wrong doing.

                  Just say’n. Maybe there are lawyers looking into it as we speak.”

                  What more can I say than that. If I said anything more I would be assuming. And you not what that does.

    • I agree 100%. Maybe it’s time for the airgun community to organize their own platform and give YouTube the boot. I think it’s terrible what they are doing and it’s affecting some of the reviewers financially. I think YouTube has been demonetizing the creators because they don’t the number of views that YouTube requires.

      I very much enjoy the video reviews by Steve at AEAC and Rick at Airgunweb. They both do a great job reviewing airguns. There are many others also that do a great service to our airgun community. Please do keep us updated on this.

        • BB,

          I’m confused. Was that in response to GF1’s query into allowing short videos here to help illustrate the thing we are trying to share with each other or was it an admonishment to drop this subject ? If it is neither, please elaborate.

          Half

          • Halfstep
            Is this what your talking about?
            “BB
            With this talk going on about YouTube videos. I was thinking about something else. And I myself would rather not have to go through YouTube to post a video on the blog.

            My video’s are usually only a few seconds long. Here is a question. Could something be set up on the blog like the picture posting but it will be for video’s. Like the picture can only be so big to post. Same for the video’s. They would have to be short.

            Do you think that is possible to do for the blog?”

            If so I in many ways would rather post here right through the blog and not have to use YouTube.

            It’s actually somewhat of a hassle posting videos on YouTube. Not bad. But just another step to go through.

            If the option to post a short video on the blog was available it would make life easier.

  34. I watched Sveve’s video last nite and am moved. I also saw that Rick of airgunweb has moved all his stuff to Vimeo. I sugest that we watch like and subscribe to the airgunners on this other site. Someone once said that success is the best revenge.
    Gerald

  35. GF1
    The other site may get attacked also but there is strength in numbers. As my example, IV8888 on YT has over a million subscribers and has not removed any content that I can see. They do mostly powder burners and some airgun videos. My point is that they create enough revenue that YT would loose that by shutting them down.
    Gerald

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