by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The B3 underlever from China.
- The washers
- Installing the washer
- RWS Hobby
- Air Arms Falcon
- Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
- Cocking effort
- Trigger pull
Today we find out how the makeshift faucet washer fix does fixing the B3 breech seal. Before I get on with the test, here’s a word about the piston seal.
The older B3s often have leather piston seals, but as the years passed the Chinese started putting synthetic piston seals in them. From what I have learned, you have to look at yours to be sure, because owners can replace the leather with synthetic.
Given a choice, I would choose leather, just because in a rifle of this power leather should last a long time, and as we know, the Chinese synthetics are not that reliable. I can’t see any advantage for power with either material. Now let’s test the gun and see what happened.
The quick fix for a B3 breech washer is supposed to be a soft faucet washer. For the record, these were not labeled as faucet washers when I bought them. They were in the plumbing section of the store and I’m pretty sure they are used only for faucets, though there might be other applications. They are labeled as beveled washers.
These come in several sizes. I bought three packages, to see which one fit the best.
Installing the washer
I bought an assortment of washers, but they were all too big to fit into the recess in the sliding compression chamber. So I took one of the smallest ones and shaved its sides with an X-Acto knife until I could get it to fit.
To install it I placed it on top of the hole and closed the underlever. The force of the chamber sliding into the breech shoved the washer in place. I had to try it several times, shaving off a little more each time before I got it to fit.
It took 15 minutes to clean out the cavity where the washer goes. I told you last time that I would clean the cavity better than what I showed you, but I didn’t. I was so anxious to see if the washer worked after installing it that I got a first test shot of 609 f.p.s. with Hobby. That was good enough for me. It took me about 5 minutes to shave and install the new washer, once the cavity was cleaned out.
In the beginning the newly installed washer stood a little proud of the sliding chamber, but after a week of being in place it almost looks like it was made for the gun!
The new washer is in place. It looks a bit crude, but so do some real B3 breech seals. When I saw this picture, though, I saw that it is a little cruder than I thought.
I didn’t think I would leave that first washer in the gun because I had shaved the sides so quick — sort of like shaping a bowling ball with a broadaxe. I thought it would leak air. But after a week of being in the gun that pliable washer looks like it has expanded to fit the space fine. I guess velocity testing will tell us what we want to know.
The first string of RWS Hobby pellets was interesting. I won’t give an average, but here are the shots.
I thought by shot 4 that the rifle had settled down, but as you can see, there were two more surprises ahead. Shot 5 broke 700 f.p.s. — the only shot in today’s test to do so. And shot 8 at 444 f.p.s. had me wondering if a heavier pellet had somehow gotten mixed in the tin. I don’t think it was that, though. I think the rifle just hadn’t settled down yet.
I shot a second string of 10 to see how they would go. They were much more consistent.
This string is much more consistent. The low was 605 and the high was 629, for a spread of 24 f.p.s. The average of this string is 617 f.p.s. I round off all the velocities, so sometimes the math doesn’t work out exactly as it should. At the average velocity this pellet develops 5.92 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
My B3-1 averaged 636 f.p.s. with Hobbys the last time I tested it, so I would say this B3 is back to spec at this point.
Air Arms Falcons
The Air Arms Falcon dome is a good lightweight pellet that’s often very accurate, so I tried them next. They sometimes out-perform Hobbys for speed, as well. Here is the string I shot.
The low was 584 and the high was 611 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 27 f.p.s. The average for this string is 605 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet develops 5.96 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
The last pellet I tested was the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy wadcutter. At 5.25-grains, this lead-free pellet should be the speed champ.
The low was 665 and the high was 697, for a spread of 32 f.p.s. The average for this pellet is 688 f.p.s. At that speed it generates 5.52 foot pounds at the muzzle.
The B3 cocks with 32 pounds of effort. There is some spiking near the end of the lever stroke, which I attribute to the roughness of the powerplant.
The single stage trigger breaks relatively clean at 5 lbs. 3 oz. It’s not the worst trigger I have used. In fact, the break is clean enough to do good work. I say the trigger is single stage but slack in the trigger linkage makes it feel like a short first stage, followed by a heavy second stage.
I’m surprised by how well this simple fix repaired the rifle. I only tried it because the rifle’s value is so low, but this is something I can now recommend. Instead of paying $12 plus shipping for 6 seals, you get 10 washers for under $2. I don’t know if they last as long as the factory seals, but I doubt I will ever use the contents of one package, plus they are very convenient to buy.
The hardest part of the job was cleaning out the old seal. Once that was done, everything else was easy.
It might be interesting to test a factory seal against the results of this seal. That’s something I will keep in mind.
My plan is to test the rifle’s accuracy next. If it’s good then I might be willing to tear into it and give it a really good tune. If it’s only mediocre, like the other Chinese spring rifles I’ve seen, then I probably won’t want to invest the time in a tuneup.
300 thoughts on “Chinese B3 underlever: Part 3”
BB—-On my B3, the end of the barrel ( breech) was tapered. Forcing the washer on to the breech caused the washer to crack, and deform. It looked a lot like the one in your picture. I tried enlarging the hole in a new washer with a drill , 1/4″,( I think. ). I drilled a shallow hole in the washers hole. The washer now slid over the tapered breech, and did not crack or deform like the unaltered washer. You might want to try this when ( and if ) you replace your washer.—–Ed
Thanks for the tip.
Yeah!!! The B3 is what I first took apart and experimented with. I played with different types of breech seals, different mainsprings, and different piston seal sizes/types.
I found that using the faucet/cone washers were too much of a pain in prepping so they would work right.
I found some fuel hose at a hardware store that was labeled as 5/16″ fuel hose.
The O.D. of the fuel hose is 17/32″.
The i.d. is 5/16″.
Cutting the fuel hose to a specific length was the only prep work, and was critical in creating proper “sealup” and underlever cocking lockup. And the cut made must be square!!! When this fuel hose seal is installed, the length of the fuel hose translates to breech seal height and “squishyness” to a certain point.
The specific length of the fuel hose that I have documented is .350″.
I also applied a small amount of silicone grease to the O.D. and i.d. of the freshly cut fuel hose, before installation into the breech.
My fuel hose seal would also squish up within the breech seal cavity, and around the breech cone, after a few days of use and being stored overnight, and it looked “formfitted” in the breech cavity.
I’m still using the fuel hose to this day if I want to replace the breech seal on a B3 or B4.
I found some fuel hose that matches this OD of about 17/32. It is marked:
Continental Conitech Insta-Grip Non-Conductive 1/4 300 psi W.P. Flame Resistant USMSHA 2G-IC-14C/33 Made in USA
It is pretty hard to cut this tough rubber perfectly square.
Other fuel hose that I have found, like Gates 4219XL is a little smaller in OD, closer to 1/2″ and might not fit securely. I have not been able to find any 13mm OD hose locally so far, although I have seen it referenced on some web sites for exorbitant prices.
Welcome to the blog.
How you can do anything with a 5 lbs+ trigger is beyond my ability.
Guess that is why you are the “Godfather”…
I have had trigger pulls that were much greater than that. The secret is if it breaks cleanly. If you have one that has a lot of rough creep or you cannot tell when it will break, that makes it difficult to shoot accurately.
I almost added that the Springfield trapdoor rifle has a 5 lb. trigger that’s quite nice. It’s crisp as glass and easy to use. A heavier trigger doesn’t bother me nearly as much as a creepy one.
Does it still smell of frying bacon when firing? Would this benefit from an application of TIAT? I agree that the accuracy test would determine if added tuning is warranted. Would you bother cleaning the barrel before or after the accuracy test?
I didn’t notice the frying bacon smell with this one. Probably not.
Clean the barrel? I don’t know. Usually these Chinese barrels are just too large to be accurate.
You do realize that many here are going to want to see inside, including myself. That is why we are here. We want the wizard to give us a peak behind the curtain. 😉
Yeah, I want to peek inside, too. We’ll see.
B.B., ditto what RidgeRunner said; you’ve whetted our appetites for a peek inside! =D
I’m with RR and Tdm. AUTOPSY! AUTOPSY! AUTOPSY!…….
AUTOPSY? It’s not even dead yet! I do agree it should be broken down though especially as that B.B. hasn’t been in one before either.
Now you have me excited. I can’t wait to see if you have finally acquired an accurate B3.
You may have to lower your expectation for accuracy with this one. By reputation I believe this is a minute of tin can at 10, maybe 20 yards with the open sights.
I have never had high expectations for these, which is why if it proves to be accurate, I will be surprised.
You may have to lower your expectation for accuracy with this one. By reputation I believe this is a minute of tin can at 10, maybe 20 yards with the open sights.
B.B. and Admin,
There seems to be a glitch in the WordPress comment software. My comment double posted. This is not the first time I’ve seen this happen this week.
I thought you just wanted to make sure you were heard. My wife frequently needs to repeat herself because of my severe tinnitus. My audiologist told me I had lost hearing in the frequency range of most women’s voices. No kidding. My audiologist is a woman.
No problem. I have seen enough cases to believe that all married men get selective hearing loss after marriage.
I am often a day late and a dollar short. This time it is about rule changes for hunting in Texas, specifically about hunting with airguns. There was a proposed rule change and apparently it passed yesterday (after the request for comments ended). I am posting a link for T3P Ranch Airgun Solutions; I believe this is reasonable as they are dealers of Air Venturi products. The news is listed near the top of the page under “Important Notice”.
From another site I will not link, the proposed changes were listed.
Allow Use of Air Guns and Air Bow for the take of game animals, non-migratory game birds, and furbearers
Staff propose to allow the take of alligators, game animals, non-migratory game birds and furbearers with air guns and air bows. The proposal also specifies…
Take of alligators, deer, pronghorn, big horn sheep, javelina, and turkey will be restricted to air guns .30 caliber or larger.
Alligators in non-core counties may be taken with air bows or air guns
In all counties alligators caught on a taking device may be dispatched with air guns
Air guns propelling a .177 caliber projectile or larger may be used to take squirrel, quail, pheasants, and chachalaca
Big Bore shooter/hunters will likely welcome this news. There may even be an uptick in big bore sales, but this is just idle speculation.
Now, back to regularly scheduled programming. I bet a number of people will be grateful to learn of the rubber washer trick to get the B3’s back into service. I wish I had known this when I had a B3; the rubber washer is exactly what I needed after the leather piston seal disintegrated. I think it would have lasted longer if I had used some silicone lubricant on it. But alas …
What in the world is a chachalaca? Sounds like some kind of exotic drink.
I had to look this one up. As I suspected this creature lives further south than I do (far south Texas and all the way into South America. It is a bird. It’s name is an onomatopoeia (I had to look that up, as well; I have heard the word but never paid much attention to it). Anyway, “chachalaca” is what some folks hear when the bird calls (I don’t).
Yeah, I had to look it up also. Sounds delicious.
Sounds like a lyric from Sly and the Family Stone’s ” I Wanna Take You Higher ” to me!
I’ve had a couple of B3’s. The First one had a dented Globe front sight and 1/2 the rear sight was missing. didn’t really matter because I put a scope on it and it would shoot quarter inch groups at 10 yards and 1 inch groups at 25 yards. Spring broke on that one.
The second one I wasn’t looking for. I was at a pawn shop and looking at old air rifles. I had a phone book along so I could test the triggers. I saw it setting in the corner, tested the trigger and was impressed. Not bad! It was like one of the plastic Crosman 760 triggers, kind of like a military trigger that breaks at a reasonable weight.
I put a Tasco 3 x 9 scope on it that I had lying around and shot JSB RS 7.3’s and H & N ftt 8.64’s at about 25 yes from a bipod. I got about an inch and a quarter group excluding a flyer from both pellets. The gun is so light that it was hard to hold it steady so I’m going to benchrest it at the rifle range this afternoon and hope I get better groups.
If it had a better build quality and shot at the advertised velocity (750 FPS ), it wouldn’t be a bad little rifle. It handles nice and comes up to the shoulder easily. Depending on the results I get this afternoon, I hope you do take it apart BB because I think it’s wortH seeing if it can be upgraded to make it a better performer.
Chachalaca (that’s the name in Spanish) is a large, chicken-like bird, with dark feathers and a long tail. They make a good deal of noise when flying. The name is Ortalis motmot. My father says that is as good as chicken, well cooked.
Greetings from the land of tequila, the home of wide eyed women.
I have a couple of things to report today. One is on my WildFire and the other is on a test I did with the 1322 I have with the Maximus barrel.
About a month ago my WildFire was working well and I replaced the barrel with one from a 1077 that I tuned up. It was shooting as accurate as I had hoped for. Next thing I knew when I picked it up the next day after shooting it for another round the pressure was zero. That was after quite a bit of fiddling with the gun to get it where I wanted it. When I went to fill it all the air just passed out the barrel. Ok now I know it is the valve.
I called Crosman to beg badger and plead for a replacement valve. I told them the warranty was off because I had it open multiple times and had swapped some parts out of a 1077. After some more discussion they said they would send me return mail label and honor the warranty. That was very good of them. I think I changed their mind when I said I would return it to stock before I sent it back. I also ordered some parts at the same time including a couple of sets of parts to convert the 2240xxx series triggers to two stage. I have received the parts but no return mail label. I can’t blame them but it did get me pretty frustrated.
I had an extra 1077 valve but I was not sure they were the same. So I decided to dive in for an all or nothing go at fixing the valve. I took it apart and there was a small metal shaving in the valve. I don’t think that was the only problem but may have contributed to the random holding air and not holding air. Also the valve seat looked a little rough so I put it into the drill press and polished the seat with some fine crocus cloth. The seal looked ok. Well now it is back together and after 12 shots I refilled it and so far so good after 4 hours no leaks. I hope this time is the last. I will follow up in a few days on whether the WildFire is holding air.
A while back when B.B. was testing a multi-pump. I ask him to test it with a few more pumps if it was not accurate with the 4 pumps to try it with 7 or 8 pumps. I got caught up on my chores today and decided I should do the test myself. I forgot which gun it was and used my Crosman 1322 with the Maximus barrel. I have since checked and found that it was with the Crosman 100. I don’t have a 100 but do have a 101 I plan on putting a .177 Maximus barrel on someday so I will repeat this test with that at some point.
It was windy today with gusts from left to right up to 10 mph. Not the best conditions for this test as the less pumps less velocity leaves the pellet in the air longer for more drift. I waited for the wind to die down between shots but it never was calm. I shot 10 shot groups with 5, 7, and 11, pumps at 25 yards with the Crosman 1322/Maximus barrel.
I tend to shoot better after the first 20 shots so I am calling the test a wash. The accuracy did not change that much with the difference in pumps. It did get a little better on 11 pumps but the wind had less effect on the faster pellet. Here is the target.
I thought you said you was putting your WildFire back to stock and sending it in. Then you said you took apart a 1077 valve and did stuff to the valve then put it in the WildFire and so far doing ok. So what are you doing with the WildFire?
And cool on the two stage trigger parts.
And even though all the group’s with different pumps are about the same size. I do think I would have to go with the 11 pumps. And I think all three groups are good for the wind you said you was shooting in. Here’s the question. Is the Maximus barrel grouping better than other barrels you had on the gun?
I had the WildFire working like i thought it should the last time I mentioned it. Right after that it started leaking again. I did not metion it again because it had me frustrated and I did not have anything good to say.
When i called in for parts at Crosman i decided to see if they would sell me a new valve. Yhey said no to the valve but they would send me a mail lable to return the gun. When the return mail lable did not show up I figured I had nothing to loose by taking the valve apart. If the repaired valve did/does not work I will put the WildFire away until the parts diagram comes out. Although I do have a 1077 valve I could try. The WildFire sat for about a month while I cooled off.
I have the trigger parts now and I’m waiting on the Fortitude. It is now pushed back to June. I may need to give the Gauntlet a try.
I now have tried the .22 caliber Maximus barrels on the followig guns:
Crosman 2240, Crosman 1322, Apache Fireball, and Crosman 101
The Bejamin Maximus barrels are significantly better than the original barrels or the Crosman 2260 barrels on the above guns. I also have two .177 caliber maximus barrels that I have not tried yet. One is necked to fit the Crosman 101.
I have shot significantly better groups with the 1322/Maximus barrel on a calm day at 25 yards.
Wonder why they said no to the (WildFire) valve. Possibly because no part diagram numbers yet?
You should of asked to talk to someone in the tech department. Then try to find out if the WildFire valve and 1077 valve are different. I’m really thinking the valves and spring inside are the same on both guns. In other words I think the 1077 valve will give the same results or better. I mean the WildFire valve leaks anyway like you say.
And that’s good with the Maximus barrel. Makes you wonder why they took so long to figure out the new process to make them.
You would think that something akin to an exploded parts view would already be existing at the design phase of production. Surely the parts have numbers at the start of production. It just seems a little odd that all of that (diagram, parts, #’s, etc.) are not ready to go straight out of the gate.
From what I have seen with Crosman with new gun releases it takes them about 6 months or so before they put out a diagram. I think some of the reason is because the guns are under warranty. And they probably have to ramp up supply parts. It’s probably a buisy time for them when they release a new gun. They are probably already trying to have enough parts at first just to build the guns.
For example look at the Fortitude right now. They keep pushing the available date back. It’s not because they don’t want to release it. It’s more than likely parts availability is slowing them up.
So basically the design work is done with diagrams and all already I’m sure. But those are some things I believe is part of their process when they release a new gun. And thinking more. It could be even something like the lawyers don’t like the way the owners manual is worded. I’m pretty sure Crosman won’t release a gun until the owners manual is complete.
But heck what do I know. I just shoot them and work on them. 🙂
You beat me with your answer. I am sure you are correct. Also imagine trying to repair a gun someone has already modified (like mine) or totally messed up. Returns of unaltered guns is the only way they can get a good handle on how their new guns are performing. That is why i did not go into a long rant.
My WildFire is still holding 2050 psi this morning the exact same as whin I filled it yeasterday. I am hoping my work on the valve will keep it functioning for a few years.
Here’s the next question. What do yo think made the valve fail/start leaking?
Here is something I wonder about. Contaminants inside any part of the guns air supply parts. Such as the transfer tube, the air resivoir, the valve itself or even the check valve on the Foster fill fitting.
I’m talking dirt, small metal shavings or even metal powder that doesn’t get thouroghly cleaned out before assembly.
Those things will kill the seating area on the valve top hat and seat.
I’m really leaning towards that being the problem more than faulty made valve components.
Well what do you think made the valve leak.
Contaminants or design or bad parts?
I think he said he found a metal chip lodged in the valve and removed it. After doing that the rifle has not leaked so far.
Maybe that’s the whole problem with the WildFire. Maybe they was rushing production at first.
Maybe the more recent guns don’t have that issue.
I can’t say for sure. Before I get into that though the Foster fitting has a filter built in on my gun. That is good because the plastic cap that goes on it to keep debris out gets cut and has chunks of plastic left around the fitting every time the cap goes on or off. Do you notice that also or am I doing something wrong?
Because my leak varied from time to time I am not sure if the seal surface on the top hat was the problem. I think it caused the slow leak because it was rough on the seat face under a magnifying glass. I think polishing it to a bright sheen with the crocus cloth had to help if that was the slow leak. I think the fast leak was the metal shaving moving around in the valve. What was driving me crazy was it would sit in the rack full of air for hours and then the next time I looked it would be down to zero. What would cause it to start leaking after a significant length of time sitting with no leaks. Unless picking it up to read the gauge shifted something enough to start the leak.
Definitely nothing from the cap left around the Foster fitting area on my WildFire.
And the surface of the top hat and seat is a big deal. They have to match angles to each other and yes they need to be smooth.
And the leak not leak thing I believe is from as it sits the air teysto (pry) it’s way under the top hat. And also around o-rings. That’s if there is something there to get the prying effect started.
That’s like on some pcp guns that have leaked. I would completely degass the gun and let it set over night. Then fill to full fill again and shoot. Pretty much everytime I have done that the gun will come back and hold air.
I am pretty sure that the parts diagrams are complete with much more detail and dimensions before production. Those diagrams are simplified and reduced to one page on the published diagrams to make it harder to steal their designs.
I bought 2 Wildfire valves from Crosman so I know that a) they are different from the 1077 valve and 2) they will sell them, if you get the right person to help you. They have had the parts numbered since a few months after release of the gun but at the time I needed a new valve the people responsible for pricing were dragging their feet. The parts guy that was helping me asked me to give him a few days to see what the delay was. He called me a few days latter with the part number and price and I ordered two of them. The bad news is one of them leaked, but the other fixed my gun.
Yep it depends on the person you talk to. I told them I knew they had sold valves already but did not mention any names.
I am hoping my valve is better than new now. The valve seat was pretty rough. The metal shaving inside did not help either.
The 1077 valve I have uses a threaded nut to hold the valve together and the new WildFire valve uses a snap ring. The old design looks better from the outside. I am with Gunfun and think the 1077 valve would work.
Well that’s good to know. They are two different valves then.
And I’m thinking the 1077 valve would work. I would be interested to know how it does. If it holds up and doesn’t leak of course. But also if it changes velocity or air use. They very well could have a different spring pressure in the 1077 valve verses the WildFire valve.
If you do put a 1077 valve in your WildFire I would like to know. But not now if your gun is holding air finally. Only if it was to fail again.
Yep that would be my plan. If the gun does not get wraped around a tree.
Well before you do any tree wrapping send your WildFire to me.
I’ll take any unwanted WildFire’s that anybody may want to get rid of.
Saying it jokingly. But maybe seriously now that I think about it.
You must like punishment .
Well the way I see it is if I get em run’n right I got more plinking fun for me and the kids.
If not then I got some extra parts guns.
So yep I would take any unwanted guns that someone didn’t want. Whatever the cause may be of getting rid of them.
I also think the spings had about the same compression force. Wish i would have measured it while I had it out.
Maybe Halfstep can measure one of each. He seems to have some extras that are not in the gun.
That would be a good idea.
I only have a new malfunctioning WiFi valve and an old malfunctioning WiFi valve that are not in guns. I wouldn’t trust what I measured in either of those valves because they malfunction and I don’t have a free 1077 valve to compare them to anyway. If I lose my mind and tear into a couple of my working guns in the future, I will do a comparison and post it here. I’m curious myself, but I was one of the first to fight the battle that you are fighting and I think I finally won and am reluctant to invite any new skirmishes, if you know what I mean.
I don’t blame you. Good move.
I looked through my, eh, files… and found the part number for the WildFire valve assembly. Maybe equipped with my story and the part number they will sell you one if you end up needing it.
The number is 1077PCP-090. The parts guy told me that it was different from the 1077 valve with the number 1077-034.
Hope that helps.
Thanks I will add that part number to my spreadsheet for future reference. I may order one of each just to make a comparison.
I have three 1077s, one of which is from the 90s. The valves in all of them are the type with the snap ring. What technique did you use to disassemble and reassemble your valve? I was able to do it but it was sheer luck more than anything. I felt like a 45degree or 90degree snap ring plier may have made it easier.What did you use to push down on the valve seat while removing the clip that didn’t damage that white plastic around the stem?
Well now that’s more interesting about your 1077 valve after reading above.
Maybe the 1077 valve and the WildFire valve are the same.
See my reply to Halfstep below.
“The number is 1077PCP-090. The parts guy told me that it was different from the 1077 valve with the number 1077-034.” The point that I was trying to make to Don was that Crosman says they are NOT the same valve. I guess I should have worded it differently.
I understand what you said about what the parts guy told you about the valves being different.
But it seems that both styles have been used on either gun.
My question to the parts guy would have been. What is the part number for the spring and top hat valve stem peice. That’s what would tell if they are internally different.
Right now all we now is he said they are different. But how is the question then if so.
Aperintly there are two different outer housing styles that have been used in each gun. That’s what I’m getting at with both valves.
I had to file the tip down on my snap ring pliers to fit the small snap ring. I tryed a 90 degree tip but had better luck with the straight tip. I put the valve in a padded vice with the snap ring pointing straight up and compressed the snap ring and held it to onr side. Then i took a verry small flat tip screwdriver and poped one end up. Then i removed the snap ring pliers and pried the rest of the snap ring out. An extra arm would have helped.
To put it back together i used a large nail set that fit over the valve stem to compress the valve. I set the snap ring on the valve body before I compressed the valve sping with the nail set. Then while holding the valve stem down I used the ring pliers to get the snap ring started in the valve body. Then i used a flat blade screwdriver to seat the snap ring.
There were a quite a few failed attempts before I got this system down. My problem is I wont remember this in a month or so.
I must have an old 1077 valve with the threaded nut. It sure looks like a better design. It would take more skill to assemble I believe.
Thanks for your answer and now you don’t have to remember, just copy your reply to me and save it! 🙂 Not really a very tinker friendly valve at all is it?
Here is a picture of my valve with the lock nut. I put it on a scale and it needs between 5 lbs 12 oz and 6 lbs to compress. That feels like more than my WildFire valve needed but I did not measure the WildFire valve.
The 1077 valve should have a heavier spring in it to help hold the top hat to the seat harder with the lower Co2 operating pressure. I think anyway.
But it’s obvious that the valves in 2240’s have worked up to around 1800 psi when converted to HPA.
So that is what keeps coming to my mind why I believe the 1077 valve will work in a WildFire. You would probably need to have the hammer spring a little tighter if using a 1077 valve to keep velocity up. Although if you left the hammer spring alone with the 1077 valve you would probably see a little lower velocity than you see now but with a increase in shot count.
I still think the 1077 valve would work.
The spring that you speak of also compresses the silicone o ring that seals around the large diameter section of the valve stem inside the valve assembly to keep gas from leaking around it. I would expect the opposite of what you propose would be necessary to avoid a leak there with 2000 psi air. Also, eventually a Wildfire will dip down into CO2 pressure ranges if you take enough shots. If a Wildfire didn’t have a spring at least as strong as the 1077’s it would start leaking air when it got down to there, if what you are saying about the 1077 spring needing to be stronger were true. And remember that CO@ is a larger molecule, as well.
That’s not to say that a 1077 valve won’t work, I’m just going with Crosman when they say they aren’t the same valve.
If you get a chance to compare your hammer springs in the Wildfire and 1077, you should find, if they are like mine, that they are different colors. I wasn’t able to tell how different they are, other than that, but it lead me to believe that they were different.
Don’t think so.
Remember the HPA gun has 2000 psi holding the valve closed. The Co2 gun has 900 psi holding the valve closed.
If anything the Co2 valve will have a heavier spring.
If the HPA gun gets down to 900 psi it should still hold either valve closed if the springs are different.
And when I say heavier. I don’t mean 5 pounds heavier. I mean a pound or maybe a little more heavier. Remember it’s a balance of both sides of the valve. The high pressure intake side and the low pressure exhaust side. That’s why both guns would require different striker springs.
Matter of fact how am I operating my WildFire at a 1400 psi fill and still getting the same velocity and shot count the WildFire gets from the factory. And that’s with the valve that came in the WildFire.
What about other features on the valves that could be different. The valve stems could be different lengths so they would open more or less. The holes bored in the top hat body could be a different diameter, providing a larger or smaller exit for the HPA. Both of those changes could be made by Crosman and still maintain all the the dimensions that would be crucial to allow their use in a valve body that would fit a 1077 gun.
Maybe someday I’ll install a Wildfire valve in one of my 1077s and vis versa and compare the performance and we will know for sure. I don’t trust that your 1077 CONVERSION to HPA is exactly like a Wildfire and I don’t remember you saying that your Wildfire now gets the same shots at the same velocities with a 30% lower fill since you modded it. I thought that the velocities went down but more shots. But I’m old and I forget stuff so I could be wrong on that count. You would know better than I. 🙂
Yep on the other features too. That’s why it would be best to open up a WildFire valve along side a 1077 valve. Then we can stop guessing.
And yes my WildFire gets 38 usable shots now just like it did when I hot it at 2000 psi.
The reason I lowered the working pressure is mainly so didn’t have to fill to a higher pessure and put less stress on the valve and components.
Remember it’s all a balance to get the gun to shoot how you want.
Suppose to be 48 usable shots.
I shoot my WildFire from 1400 psi down to 800 psi.
I have a box of cylinders for my WildFire and 1077 and I am going to keep filling it to 2000 psi for the shot count. It is no tack driver and is made for plinking. If you have a bottle tethered I can see starting at a lower pressure. There is definitely a different sound at 2000 psi than at 800 psi so the velocity is changing. Not a big deal at 20 yards for me.
Are you starting at 1400 psi to protect the gun or to give more consistent velocities?
Yes to protect the gun and have to use less air to fill the gun.
I think the main purpose of the valve spring is to hold the valve closed against the pressure from the hammer spring. If the valve is working, sealing correctly then a very light spring just enough to close the valve should be enough to prevent a leak. But the hammer spring holds the striker against the valve stem so it needs to overpower the hammer spring. The striker catch that you removed may do something but I have not figured it out yet. The striker has a notch where the catch is. I finally left mine out when I got tired of fiddling with it each time I took the gun apart. I did not see any difference in the operation with it in or out. And after I cleaned up my valve the gun needed a few shots to start taking air. My hammer spring may be a little over powering my valve spring.
At the instant the valve starts to open I think all the force is coming from the momentum in the striker. If the strikers are the same weight and shape then the springs would mostly change the duration of the valve opening so the valve spring and the hammer spring work together (against each other) on that.
My bet is that either valve will work and any combination of the parts will work as long as the parts are compatible. The difference will be in the shot count and velocity. So that would open up a whole series of options. Not sure about the barrel length and the valve duration balance in increasing the pellet velocity. The ports in the valve could also be enlarged for more air but I think the transfer tube will be the restriction. There is not too much air storage in the valve.
I bought the WildFire to rid the yard of some pesky cans and spinners in the winter when it is cold and for the rapid fire ability over the 1077 with CO2. It is not worth the tuning effort in my opinion. I hope not to do surgery on my WildFire again.
Like I said to Halfstep above. It’s a balance to get the gun to do what you want.
And I bought my WildFire basically for plinking. And I really didn’t want to tune mine. The reason was to keep the gun in a lower operating pressure to hopefully prevent leaks of any kind now and in the future.
And so far I have accomplished that.
My oldest 1077 is from May of 1994 and it has a snap ring. Do you know when the gun with this valve was made?
It looks like the first year the 1077 was made was 1994. So I have a preproduction valve. Or one that has been modified. I guess I will have to open the valve up and see what is inside. When I do I will post some pictures.
The serial number on the 1077 trigger guard with the lock nut is N94505642. The one on my newer 1077 does not have the N at the start of the serial number.
I checked all the Crosman parts drawings for the 1077 after I ask you about this. It didn’t occur to me before then. The snap ring was used starting in 1998, so your Nov ’94 date SHOULD have the threaded end in the valve. I’m the one who is mistaken. I have either changed my valve and don’t remember( highly unlikely ) or I didn’t pay attention to the difference when I got into my ’94 gun. I have had all three of the valves out to do a mod to the spring loaded detent on the front of the valve ( the black plastic part ) that is meant to give more shot count at a slightly higher velocity from the unmodded valve. I must have failed to notice the difference on the other end of that particular valve. I have also had 6 different Wildfire valves in my hand and I think they all run together after a while. So don’t take your valve apart on the strength of my mistaken memory. ( Now if you just want to do it because you’re curious, I say ” Feed the Beast” ) I will have to take a look at the end of the valve now for sure.
BTW, my 1994 serial number starts with 594 for May 1994. I have a 2015 gun that starts N15 for Nov 2015 and a 2014 gun that starts 614 for June 2014. The 2015 has an additional hand stamped “R” under the serial# for Refurbished, I think
Ok that makes sense now. Mine is Nov 1994. I did not look at the parts diagram for the older guns, I did now and It shows the threaded retainer on the valve.
All I got to say is if you or Halfstep take a valve apart. Do both the WildFire and 1077 and take side by side pictures of the parts so we can at least get a visual of what both look like inside.
That will definitely help with knowing more of how the valves should be used with different air pressures.
You got me curious about my B3 so I dug it out of the closet. It is a scary gun because the linkage was broke the last I remember. I guess I welded it back together at some point. Now it does cock. I cocked it and looked at the seal. It reminded me of the old muzzleloader mini balls that they guys used bear fat on as lube and then forgot them for a while. The gun scares me and I am not afraid of anything. I did shoot a pellet once it was cocked though and still have my fingers. I was not sure which end the seal goes on parts seemed to be on the barrel and on the breech. I think I will put mine back in the closet where it belongs.
Here is a picture of the seal from both ends the left image is looking at the barrel end.
The breech seal goes in the sliding compression chamber on the right. That’s what they all look like.
Thanks, I would have thought the other way around.
Ken—How about the SAKABULA bird from South Africa? During the Boer war ( English war , according to my South African friends)The S.A. light cavalry regiment wore this birds feathers in their hats. As a result, they were called the COCKY OLLIE boys. Winston Churchill was a member of this regiment. This birds call was supposed to sound like cocky ollie. —–Ed
Sounds like the War of Northern Aggression which the Yankees call the Civil War. There is nothing civil about war.
“There is nothing civil about war.”
R.R., you got that right. However, and all due respect, the “War of Northern Aggression” never fails to make me chuckle. When I lived in South Carolina 30 years ago,even the locals couldn’t say it without a sheepish grin and a quick glance downward.
Read my post below to shootski. I found it at civil war talk under air rifles.
Ridge Runner—-It is also called the Yankee– American war.——Ed
No offense, but here’s one I’ve heard more than a few times:
Why is all southern wine extra dry?
Hey All y’ all,
Did they use airguns during that Unpleasantness?
I did find this.
Very nice. Who would have ever thought that anyone would fear an air gun more than a fire arm? The European reference was an interesting point.
In thought, maybe that historical point has played into the development of their current/existing air gun laws?
Being the Luddite that I am, would you be able to explain to me in simple terms how to post links to the blog? T Y
Believe me!,.. I am ((not)) the one to ask! 🙁 It does appear that you did just that with your Civil War link,… so you have me a bit confused,… not unheard of,… 😉 So,… huh?
Me? I right click on the long, gobbelity gook address at the top, hit copy, go back to your comment, right click again, hit paste. I often open up 2 pages just to keeps thing separate.
I do everything on my phone, all I did was screen shot the page I was reading then posted it as a photo. Does this show up as a link thingy with the blue letters when you view it ?
Your picture shows up as a picture. If I open it up in another window, the address at the top reads like it is a PA link and not the site from which you obtained it from. So, I guess that a pic is a pic and link is a link. I will do the Fortitude here in a minute with the method I described.
I will (open another window), go to the Fortitude page, right click on the address at the very top, hit copy, (go back to the comment,.. other page), right click, hit paste,… done.
You know you are driving me nuts by bringing up the Fortitude. Now it is out to June. I already have the two stage trigger parts and a scope in mind. But may wait on a review from B.B. before I order one.
You? How about me? I got the .22 Maximus, now with a regulator and (right) after I did all that,.. the Fortitude comes out!,… and appears to keep getting pushed (out) further and further. Talk about upset,.. I am still ticked off on that one. I am a repeater liking fellow myself,.. so that really drove the proverbial stake home.
I may end up with one yet. Like you, I am waiting on a BB review. The shorter barrel is a concern with a PCP. We will have to wait and see.
So yea,.. I can relate. 😉 My gut says that you should “pull the trigger” on one. Hey,.. at least get in line. At the current rate,… you may see it by Christmas.
Opps!,… replied to myself! 🙁 Like I said. I am (not) the one to ask. I am lucky to find my back here everyday. 😉 See link example below. I have a dumb flipper phone. I do not text or search data on the net on a phone.
You can right click on the picture and copy the picture and paste.
I do everything from my phone and I do like Coduece discribed also.
Here like this.
Well, that did not work! 🙁
And I meant you can right click on your computer on the picture.
Thanks, I did it, well my wife also helped she’s the brains around here.
I’m with you. I hate cell phones and refuse to carry one. My wife gave me her old flip phone when she got a smart phone for Christmas a couple of years ago. She is always asking me…did you bring your phone? No……. I hate carrying the stupid thing. And, what’s with all this texting? I don’t get it. I have a novel idea, how about if we could actually talk on the cell phone. Wouldn’t that be great? And we wouldn’t have to push those tiny buttons. We could just speak into the phone! Some of the new technology is NOT better.
When people ask me why I only have a flip phone, I tell them “It’s for making phone calls!” I think the cell phones have their place, just not in bathroom stalls, in super market check outs, or while driving a car. I think the name “smart phone” is a misnomer. They make people do stupid things. Have you ever noticed a couple in a nice restaurant sitting at a table, not speaking to each other, and playing with their stupid cell phones? They say that on an average a person can not go longer than ten minutes without checking their cell phone.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t want someone calling me or texting me every ten minutes. When I ride with a friend who has a smart phone and when he complains about not being able to do something on it, I tell him “give it to me, I have a solution…throw it out the window!” Well, that’s enough ranting about cell phones.
1000% agree. I use it for phone calls, while NOT driving. It is great to have a phone when on the road. At 4:40 in the AM on the way to work I had a blow out from hitting something steel. It was nice to have a phone and call AAA. I think more than a few here remember the phone at home only,.. on the wall,… dial type,… “party line”? No,… that would NOT be the 1-800 “party lines” of todays world. Or is it 1-900? 😉 No matter,… no interest.
They do take great pictures though,… the smart ones. 😉
Yes, the cell phone is a good tool to have when traveling on the road. That’s why I want my wife to carry one. They do have a purpose, and yes, they do take very good pictures. I can remember as a kid my folks have a phone with a crank. There was no dial. Our number was 2 long & 4 short. Of course they were all party line, which means that anyone could pick up their phone and listen in on your conversation. I don’t think we were so paranoid back then.
We had a lady this past summer killed in our town. She was texting on a cell phone and walked across the crosswalk right into the rear duels of a semi-trailer that was making a turn.
Here is why I would rather have someone text me than call me.
With a text I can look real quick and see what they want. Then I can answer quickly or I can answer later. Kind of like commenting on the blog.
If someone calls I have to answer to know what they want. And at some time I may not be able to talk. Like if I’m at work. And another thing if it’s noisy where I’m at. Then you got to get to place to hear them.
So in reality a text is quicker than a phone call. Plus with a text I can attach a picture. Can’t do that if I’m talking to someone on the phone.
Think of it this way. A smart phone is a computer you can carry around with you. And as a bonus you even have the luxury to talk to someone.
Don’t you just love technology. 😉
No, not so much…
That’s why I have an answering machine at home. Don’t want to be bothered with a cell phone continually ringing, dinging, or whatever. My wife has a Buick Encore and has her cell phone paired to it. When I driving it and her cell phone get’s a text, the radio starts dinging and I’m looking around to see if someone is behind me, or I’m about to back into something. Crazy stuff.
And I figured since you know computers and work on them you would fall right into smart phones.
Oh and you just might be ready to back into something if you think your hearing a text alert in your wife’s car. I have my phone linked to my Sonic and it doesn’t give any audible notice in my car for a text. It only does for if I want to accept or regect incoming calls. And in Illinois it’s hands free phones in cars. So linking the phone to the car is a easy way to do it.
Well, that worked like a charm! 🙂 Glad you figured out something new. It appears as the original page from which it was linked, when I open it up. heck, it is. That is how you do a link, on a smart phone, which I do not have.
Glad you figured it out. If you ever have any questions or issues using a computer, I would be happy to help you. I am a retired quality technician but I have repaired computers as a side line for 25 years. That offer is also to anyone else here on the blog. I know a lot more about computers than airguns, but I learn something new every day 🙂
Thanks,I will definitely keep that in mind, and once again what an awesome community we have here!
I totally agree…awesome group here.
I read through some of the conversation about the air guns. Some of the comments were noteworthy and serious. Like the person commenting knew about air guns. And some of the other comments made me laugh. Like those people had no clue about air guns or what they were saying.
Regardless of the conversation there. A interesting subject for sure.
I had always wondered and never took the time when I remembered the question on Civil War use of airguns. The image was great but the link caused me to realize how little most folks know about BB guns!
I certainly believe the Colonel knew he was taking incoming from something other than “overshoot” since most folks that have heard a Big Bore air rifle’s report know it to be loud and very different from a black powder rifle’s report.
Very interesting historically and as current airgun events.
That was my thought as well, the sound would be different. And with the south’s connection to Europe I feel it’s entirely plausible.
Your reply got me thinking,I am fascinated by and greatly enjoy learning about airguns, but that’s not what keeps me coming back here many times every day. It’s the people like you and so many others who freely offer assistance and who are willing to share their knowledge and experience. The things I have learned here transcend mere airguns, it has been positively impactful in more ways than I can count and I am a better person because of it! So thank you everyone!!
Thank you for the kind words. What good is knowledge if it can not be transferred to others? This blog has a family atmosphere and after following the blogs and comments and making replies, it seems like most all of us are of the same mind. Lots of experience and helpful suggestions shared here.
It is somewhat addictive and I find that I spend a lot of time reading all the comments and trying to keep up with them on a daily basis. It’s the first thing I read each morning with my cup of coffee.
Well, I completed my Vana2 wind flags today. Instead of 2×2 wood stakes, I opted for electric fence post. Plastic, metal spike on end, I-beam type post and (step) on the bottom. I can set them, pull them and move them with ease. I made 4. If I am shooting 100, I might want to move the configuration from the 0-50 set up. Other than that, they are the same as Vana2 showed in his report.
This same post is what I use to mount my corrugated cardboard backers to for targets.
This is it,
Well I thought you was going to show us a picture of your wind socks you made.
You know me and pics. The main thing I wanted to pass onto fellow readers was the poles and I did post a link of that. I really like them. Other than the pole, they are an exact copy of Vana2’s wind indicators. (remember?,.. bead chain, safety tape, coat hanger wire) I drilled a hole through the pole, inserted wire, bent a 1 1/2″ leg in the wire, zip tied the leg to the pole.
Incase anyone is wondering, the cardboard backers I use are 10″x13″ and I notch them out so that they have 2 “ears” that clip into the top clip and the 4th one down on the pole.
What do you mean by cardboard backers.
Corrugated cardboard. The target paper then gets taped to that. And of course, I usually put duct tape on the (back) of my target paper just around the target area, (usually about 2″x2″ or 3″x3″). It works great.
You really need to figure out how to post pictures.
Text me pictures and I’ll post them for you.
I want to see what your talking about.
Here’s the picture you sent me. Now I understand how hat you mean. And yep turned out nice.
Thanks for the pic post. I see that I made a mistake on clipping the target backer to the 1st and 4th clips. It is the 1st and 3rd clip. That “step” on the bottom makes it nice to plant quick and is still 3′ high, so no bending to pull. No hammer needed either. The target pole is a full 4′ tall. I had 4 stakes that the neighbor shot parts out of, so I cut a foot off of them for the wind flag poles. I look forwards to using them this year. It should help. Before, there may have actually been wind, but I was unaware of it.
Thanks again,.. Chris
No problem. And I’m sure there was wind blowing in places and you didn’t know it.
Definitely good to have wind flags at least to determine what the wind is doing.
Neat idea to use those stakes. I’ll have to check out the local TSC store to see if I can find any of those. Wondering if using a single stake for the target, does the wind move the target around? I use a realtor’s sign I found lying in the ditch. I screwed four metal paper clips (the heavy duty ones) to hold my target at all four corners so it doesn’t move even with the wind blowing. It too has pointed feet and I can just step on the cross piece to drive it into the ground…works great and is sturdy.
Well, at least get some and try them. They are cheap enough that you can set out multiple targets at different yardages. The other types have clips and may work, but this type seemed the best.
As for wind, I have never noticed an issue. The cardboard holds firm and the stake is firm too. There is another small plastic spike on the bottom of the foot that prevents the main stake from spinning. The main stake is 5/16″ x 6 3/4″, steel and very sturdy.
At least it another tried and proven trick to add to your target arsenal if care to do so.
This is an great group here.
Well the saga of my WildFire continues. I have not wrapped it around a tree yet but it is pushing its limits.
I just put the dot sight back on it and sighted it in and shot 12 rapid fire shots at a 20 yard target. The results were just as I had hoped. See the target below with Crosman Super Match wadcutter pellets 7.9 gr. I shot a little less than a second apart that is rapid for me.
After it was sighted in and shot 24 pellets total I was at 1500 psi on the gun gauge. I decided to top it off and filled it to 2000 psi it started leaking and went to 1500 psi so I fired another 12 shots and filled it back to 2000 psi and it leaked down to 1500 psi and stopped. This seems like an O-ring to me. So maybe it has been an O-ring in the valve all along.
Now that Halfstep has provided the part number I will eventually order a couple of valves and hope one is a good one.
At least I got the accuracy I was hoping for. And have a chance at getting a new valve. I may try the old 1077 valve I have but if I remember it was leaking is the reason I was able to get the gun for parts.
To preserve my sanity, not that there is much to start with, I will be leaving the WildFire in the rack for a while.
Burnt Out Don
Me? Chalk it up to experience and opt for the tree. 😉 No more wasted time and money and frustration.
I do admire your perseverance though. (While not aimed at you),… there comes a point when stubborn persistence becomes just plain stupid. Gunfun1 said he would gladly take it off your hands and even pay the shipping cost. I am pretty sure that he said that he would add in the cost of all the parts you have tried too. Well,.. that is what I remember anyways. 😉
You make a very rational and good point. When it comes to something not working I am not able to give up. But I do need to take some time off from this gun.
I think it is time for the .177 barrel on the Crosman 101 and see how it does.
Sometimes,.. I can be too rational for my own good. Like anything, it is a balancing act. 😉
No I didn’t say would even pay for shipping cost. Come on. I’m trying to get some free guns here. 😉
I just read my comment above and realized that the gun seems to start leaking when I mount something on the receiver dovetail. I took off the dot sight and filled it back to 2000 psi. There was no rapid leak down so I will check it out after some time has passed. If the leak stops this would mean there is some stress on the receiver that is changing the leak and would point me back to the transfer tube.
I like a puzzle but this one seems to have quite a few pieces missing.
Do what I mentioned above.
Degass the WildFire completely. Let it set over night with no air in it. Fill it tomorrow to 2000 psi and shoot.
See if that helps. Sometimes you got to let the seals/o-rings relax. When you fill back up it reseats them.
I will give that a try. Right now the gun is holding 2000 psi with no leaking so far after I took off the dot sight.
Before I worked on it the last time it sat for days with no pressure but I have had luck with that process before and will try it again if I need to.
So now you need to try and see if it leaks down with the dot sight. In other words repeat results.
And just to mention I have a dot sight on mine and no leak down problems since I changed the working pressure on the gun.
I think you may be onto something. It’s plausible at least, since each half of the receiver also sports half of the dove tail and this is no high tech polymer that we are dealing with in these guns. The parts flex under pressure and they will be more or less flexible at differing temperatures on top of that.
In the future, sliding your barrel forward and sticking your finger up the magizine well and over the hole in the detent valve as it leaks should tell you if it’s coming through the valve or not, if you can do it fast before the leak stops.
Yep that’s exactly how I tell if it’s coming out the barrel.
I forgot the target
What the heck kind of target is THAT!!!!!??????
Well by the time I added the target all the information is quite a ways above. It is some rapid fire from my WildFire at 20 yards. I think it is pretty good for a rapid fire WildFire.
Here is one with the tuned barrel I shot earlier.
No,… what is that purple stuff that appears to be “oozing” out of the shot holes? What did you do?,… go and invent a new target and not tell all your “homies” about it? 😉
I just put some purple paper behind the target so the holes stood out.
It looks like it’s some kind of goop expanding out of the holes in your target when you zoom in on the picture.
See my response to Chris below.
And the WildFire did not loose any pressure overnight with the dot sight removed. Only time will tell, but I think the valve had issues and the transfer tube gets released when I clamp a sight onto the dovetail. It may take quite a while to confirm this theory so it will be a while before I can say for sure. Too bad I really like the dot sight on this gun.
When I put the dot sight on my WildFire I had the thought that it was holding the receiver half’s together better and helping to possibly keep the air transfer tube in place.
So what do you think is happening when you clamp the dot on top. What is happening in side?
I also thought clamping the dovetail together would help. It was not untill i read my comment over and realized every time it started leaking slow and then stopping at a lower pressure i had a scope or dot sight on the gun. If clamping the dovetail turns out to be the cause I can only guess that the compression on the dovetail is closing a small gap that is closed lower in the reciever halves. That would try to open the halves below.
I have thought I had the leak fixed so many times I dont know what to think. I can’t always fix something but I usually can figure out whats wrong with a pellet gun.
I put the .177 Maximus barrel on my Crosman 101 yeasterday. I am going out to do some shootin now. The machine work on the .177 barrel is pretty rough and was turned down too much, dang it. If it was left oversized I would have been happy and could have got a pefect fit. It should work but will always leak a little. I may use some epoxy or loctite if i want to leave it on the gun for a while.
Well it will be interesting to see if that is the problem.
Then you will have to figure out what it is moving inside and clearance that spot or spots so it don’t clamp as hard with your dot sight.
And yep a little over size is always better than under size. And that clear 15 minute model epoxy works good. Seals nice and can be removed if needed. Don’t use JB weld. You will play heck getting that apaet. If needed.
Like GF1 said, it looks like there is stuff “puffing” out of the holes. It kind of looks like fabric paint is applied on top of each area/hole. There is some definitely some weird photographic illusions going on in that pic.
Ok, I did some checking and here is what happened. I scanned the image in upside down. For some reason when I rotated the image 180 degrees in Photoshop the algorithm gave it a three dimensional look. I have seen a loss of definition before when rotating and image but not like this.
Here is the original image. No UFO’s in this story.
Yep that was different.
Well that looks more normal. I must say though, the other one really did make the holes stand out very clearly,.. in a strange sort of way. Mystery solved at any rate though.
Pretty darn good for 20 yards.
I need to putting up stuff until I get it together. The upper target from today is at 20 yards rapid fire with the WildFire. The lower target is with the WildFire taking my time but is at 10 yards.
Maybe Benji-Don layed the target over a blanket and pushed down a little on the target to make it set flat.
That’s the best I can tell.
Well,… YouTube just made the national evening news. (for the first time that I have seen) Banning gun sites. The story focused on heavily modified firearms, semi to full, “ghost guns”, etc.. No mention of air guns,… but we all know how that is going. I may not like the news, but I do watch it to at least stayed informed on what is “going around”. Full truth, partial truth or flat out lies.
Yep the times are a changing and not for the good. I hope at some point there is some balance in the middle that makes sense does good and maintains our rights.
We will now have to check into YouTube at times and see if the news told the truth on this one.
Michael—-No offense taken. In the 1860,s , some of my ancestors were in the Russian army, probably fighting Turks or assorted slav or balkan armies. ——Ed
Off Topic: What happened to the “Yellow” Airgun Classifieds on Network54? I’ve been working a lot the past few months and haven’t been reading here, or looking at the classifieds like I used to. I went to look at them today and it says, “disabled”. Have those classifieds been relocated elsewhere? Can anyone provide a link?
Thanks for any info.
For the past while now, YouTube seems to be taking down anything gun related. What is odd is that it has also affected the air gun community. Yet, last I looked, there was plenty of individuals doing their thing and still showing up. The peoples sites that got affected were/are well established and well known names, some, large companies.
The Yellow/54 is odd. I did not realize that they used video content. I had thought this was only affecting video content.
There is other people here that are following this much closer than I am and can surely provide a lot more specific info.. I asked BB to keep us posted, but have not heard much. From what I have gathered, people and companies are doing their own web site now,… where it appears that before YouTube was their (only) entrance to the web/viewers.
But yea,… it is real and it is happening.
Yeah, YouTube is the one outlet I have kept up with. I’ll often watch some airgun stuff on there on my tablet, right before going to sleep. All the main guys I watch seem to have been “targeted” by YouTube, but are back now. I watch Ted’s Holdover, American Airgun Hunter, AEAC, Airgun Gear Show, etc. They are all back online.
I do not believe there was any video content on the Yellow/54 classifieds. It seems they may have still run afoul of some “content” guidelines or something though. There is another site out there now that shows up when you search for “Yellow Airgun Classified”, but it sure looks different.
Does anyone have one of the Alpha Carette compressors? What would be important to know about it? If you were looking for a “relatively inexpensive” compressor — that Alpha, with moisture filter and shut-off, would be the most I would consider spending, and I’m not crazy about dropping that much. — would you wait for the new Air Force E-pump, would you get the current Air Venturi electric, or what would you look at?
Features that are important to me are, very low maintenance, electric, ability to fill air tanks – not just guns, moisture removing filter. What other factors / features do you consider important?
I have the Air Venturi compressor and I love it. My one concern is that they( Air Venturi, Pyramyd Air ) now sell a filter that is supposed to protect my guns and air tank from moisture when filling from their compressor. They lead me and everyone else to believe that that was taken care of by the compressor’s filtration and blow off in their original marketing of the compressor. Until they make it clear why I suddenly need to buy their auxiliary filter, I’m going to assume that they have found a defect in their original design and recommend against buying that particular compressor. It is expensive enough without having to buy a filter as an add on, IMO.
Halfstep — That’s good info about the filter. I will keep an eye on what comes out about that.
My $300 China compressor is still chugging along.
And there are some compressor’s on their way to release soon and others available now.
Do a search for HPA compressor’s and you can check out what’s out there.
Which $300 compressor do you have? Is it the “Yong Heng” one?
Yep that one.
I’m not sure what happened, but it seems like your last post to me, from yesterday, has been deleted. I am pasting what you wrote at the bottom of this reply.
I just ordered one off eBay, from a seller in CA, with the auto shut off. It was $335 including S & H. It looks like it comes with some sort of moisture filter, but I’m not sure. Did you buy a separate filter? Also, what oil did you put in it, and do you just use a bucket of water for coolant?
>> Jim Mine does not have the auto shut off. All the ones I’m seeing now have the auto shut off. They are now going for around $350 with free shipping. And what I look for is somebody that has them for sale in the USA. To me it seems like it’s a individual that bought a handful and is selling them. You can find them from China supplier’s for around $275 or so with $49 shipping. But it will take you forever to get it. Go online and search HPA China compressor on eBay. You will find a bunch. Again look for a seller in the USA and free shipping. I think that will be your best bet. Let me know what you come up with. If you can’t find something let me know then I’ll email you a eBay link.
I was thinking about buying a better filter. But really no need. The that came with my compressor is doing fine.
And I bought my compressor from someone in California also. And sounds like you got a pretty good deal. Let me know when you get yours.
Good to know, about the filter. I will let you know. it’s supposed to arrive late next week.
Ok just post on the current days blog when you get it. I’ll see it.
I have to say, now that I have figured out the issue with my RSS comments feed not working correctly, it’s a much better experience following the comments. I hope that others having the same problem as I have been experiencing find the solution that I posted in this blog. But as time passes, it won’t be found by doing a search unfortunately. I’ll be watching for comments regarding problems following the RSS feed and I’ll jump in with the solution.
The feeds never have worked on my phone.
Tryed figuring out different ways to get it to work. But no luck. It use to work fine on my lap top when I use to use it. But haven’t in I bet going on close to 2 years now.
Maybe someone else here knows how to get it to work on a phone?
Wow! Without the RSS comments feed it would be very difficult to keep up with new comments because they are not always in the current blog, or are replies to an earlier comment in the current blog. When I first started following this blog I didn’t know about the RSS feed and it was impossible to keep up with the comments. Then someone here explained to me how to use the RSS comments and it’s been very easy since then.
Nope, can’t help you with anything cell phone…sorry. But you should be able to follow the feed on your phone. Like you said, it’s like a little computer with an itsy bitsy screen and buttons. I don’t even like working on laptops because of the small screen resolutions. I do it, but I don’t like it.
I usually only follow the current blog. I might go back once in a while and check out the comments on a older blog if it’s something I’m interested in. Or I’ll answer a reply on a older blog if it’s directed to me. It pops up in my email.
So not having the feed really doesn’t bother me. But I guess if I ever figure it out I’ll use it on my phone.
This probably won’t work on a cell phone but on my desktop computer it works great. I use Firefox as my web browser. I have a short cut on my toolbar that opens the RSS comments feed. These open in chronological order by date and time. The ones I have viewed are red and the ones I have not viewed are blue. I scroll down to the point where they are all red and then go up the list to the first blue one. I right click on the comment and open it in a new tab on the browser. After reading that comment and any replies to it, I close the tab which takes me back to the RSS comments tab. Then I just pick the next blue one up the list and continue the process. By doing this, I see every new comment posted no matter from which blog it came from. As much as I see you and Chris posting, I can see this process being very beneficial. Sometimes I just leave the comments feed open on my computer and come back to it occasionally and hit the refresh to show me any new posts.
Nothing like that on my phone.
And what I do is my phone notifies me when I get a email. So if I get one from the blog I respond.
And what I usually do when I want to take a break from what I’m doing I check out that days blog. I start at the top and scroll down till I see the current date of a post. Then read it. I also watch how many pists there are to see if anyone has made a comment.
It’s actually pretty fast when I do it. So that’s my round about way of keeping up on the current blog and older blogs.
I recall you saying that you were going to write an article in “Firearms News” about my Diana RWS 34P. I think you said it would be in the September 2017 issue? I did not see it on the news stand. I would like to acquire that issue to keep with my Diana as a keepsake. This rifle has lots of sentimental value for me now…even if I can’t shoot it well.
Do you know how I could go about obtaining the issue with your article about my Diana?
I’m pretty sure events transpired to prevent that article from being written. I don’t think it made it.
I am sorry to hear that. Do think the article may be written in a later issue?
I have the material, so I can always write it. The problem now is Firearms News is giving me specific topics to write about.
Well if you are ever allowed to write the article, please let me know the issue so I can pick one up for historical reference. I want to keep the magazine issue with my Diana 34P.
I followed all the comments and B.B’s write-up about your model 34, before I faded off here for a few months. I am really sorry to hear you are still not able to shoot it well. I am sure most others on here have made the offer, but I’ll make two — one, if you are anywhere near the Kansas City area I would be happy to meet up with you sometime and see if I could help with the shooting challenges. Two, if you ever want to sell it, I would be interested.
Thank you for the offers. I live in southwest MI near Kalamazoo, so not very near you.
Now that the Diana RWS 34 has been tested and a Vortek kit installed by Mr. Gaylord, it will (like B.B. says) probably be sold at my estate auction 🙂 I recently purchased a Gamo Urban PCP and with that I am able to shoot very well. So I probably won’t be shooting the Diana much. It will just be a safe queen now. I will document all the parts of the test and keep it with the Diana. It really is a nice airgun and since B.B. installed the Vortek kit, it’s as smooth shooting as butter. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Diana. I apparently am just not able to shoot a break barrel springer accurately…not that I haven’t tried.
I do have my first airgun which is a Crosman Nitro Venom .22 with a Center-Point 3-9×32 scope. The trigger was horrible on it so I changed it out for a GRT-III trigger which is very nice. This is a gas ram airgun and shoots very hard. I thought at the time that it was not accurate but as it turned out, it is not the gun but me that is not accurate. It has shot maybe 500 pellets and does not have a mark on the stock and still looks like new. This one I would be willing to part with because I don’t use it now. I paid $149 for the rifle and $32 for the GRT-III trigger upgrade. I will entertain any reasonable offers.
I hope you are doing well. A couple of questions — are you going to the Arkansas Airgun Show this year? Next, I see the TX Airgun Show has been moved up two whole months. What was the reason for that, do you know?
And lastly, I found this British airgun blog post about “Bell Target Shooting”, and am just wondering if you have ever heard of this? http://theairgunblog.co.uk/bell-target-an-introduction/#more-1863
Sounds like the bell ringing shooting could be fun.
I will not be at the Arkansas airgun show this year. I wanted to go but there are too many demands on my time.
The Texas show was moved up to June to have better weather. Not so hot, mostly. They also tried to avoid all other airguns shows.
I have not heard of bell target shooting, though I was aware the targets existed. Thank you for the link.
For those who like big footed cats, we are now up to five mitten kittens . What feet they have !
I believe your talking 6 toe cats?
Six or more.
How old are they?
Mine is a 1014 cat from the Shell station up the road (tiger).
Wife has two from last year .One from momma cat outside (tiger/white) . Other is a grey/white from last year that came across the street from the doper’s house over there.
Two weeks ago, momma cat sprang five more kittens . Two are mitten (grey/white , black) .
We have a grey/ white that hangs around outside . We call him “Thumbs Daddy” . I think he has a part in this .
Got any pictures?
I had posted pictures of Bammy right after I got him back in ’14, but do not have any pictures of him grown up. Don’t have any pics of the others yet .
Gave up on photo bucket , and have not figured out how to do it now. Maybe the Nikon takes too big of pics.
Where ever you store your picture it should have a place to size the photo down.
So hen I click on the [Choose Files] button the blog page it then fives a place where I want to take the picture from. Documents, camera or camcorder. If I click on documents it gives me a drop down of where I want to grab the picture from. Then I just click on where I want to get the picture from. Then I click on the picture.
It will then tell me on the blog page if it’s too big. Then I just go back to my picture where I have it stored at and size it down as much as I can but still be able to see the object in the picture. Then try again on the blog page and see if it will accept.
It sounds complicated but it’s not. The main thing is size the picture down as much as you can without taking away from the object in the picture.
And there goes my phone again.
Not this. “So hen I click on the [Choose Files] button the blog page it then fives a place where I want to take the picture from.”
But this. So (then) I click on the [Choose Files] button on the blog page it then (there’s) a place where I want to take the picture from.
May try it later . Watching Alice Cooper concert on AXS channel on the tube.
Sounds like a good concert.
We’re out shoot’n and ride’n the 4 wheelers. Had to work yesterday so trying to make up for it today. 🙂
I am new to this blog and overwhelmed by the amount of information there is on airguns. I am looking for a 22 cal. that is accurate, not too loud or expensive to shoot rats and targets. Is there a previous post that would recommend some good options?
Welcome to the blog. What sort of powerplant did you have in mind? Or hadn’t you thought about it?
Do you want a multi-pump, a spring gun, or a pcp that you pump with a hand pump or fill with a compressor or a bottle?
Are the rats inside a barn or something or are they outside? That might make a difference in what gun you choose.
Also do you want open sights or a scope or dot sight.
Then what distances do you plan on shooting at?
I want something that is easy to use, but not that familiar with the pcp. I already have a Gamo break action .177 and an old Sheridan pump 5mm. Both are nice but not as consistently accurate as I would like. The rats are outside along the irrigation canal behind my house. So I would like at least 30 yards and maybe more. Noise could be a factor too with neighbors. I would plan on a scope to help my 62 year old eyes. I started looking at RWS and Umarex and then found a whole world of options beyond that and thought to look for advice.
You are pushing towards a PCP or a higher cost break barrel when you go from 20 to 30 yards.
When you say quiet you are also cutting your options. How well do you do with the Gamo and the old Sheridan. Do you have a scope on them? Are they too loud?
I am not trying to pry just get a better idea of what you are looking for
Thanks for the info. My old Sheridan is open sites from the 1960’s and easily shoots thru coffee cans at 8 pumps. The Gamo has a scope and a suppressor of sorts. Its pretty accurate at 20 yards most of the time. I haven’t found a great pellet for it yet. I will tell you that the .177 will kill a rat, but sometimes they scream louder than the gun. That’s why I thought that a 22 cal. might be a good choice. A little more knockdown power and potential for some other vermin like prairie dogs. I’m not opposed to a PCP, but I don’t know much about them yet. Can I use my air compressor or a bike pump? How do you recharge them in the field?
Quiet, not too expensive, accurate,…. quite the tall order there right out of the gate! 😉 30 yards will keep you in the range of most guns. Quiet can vary. Scopes are nice and the only thing I use. Your shooting will be limited to daytime, if night shooting is not a consideration. Spring and gas ram guns will be harder to learn on. PCP’s are great, but have some added cost. Something like Maximus and a hand pump would be good PCP start. 300$ will get an auto pump that you can go directly to a PCP with. Gunfun1 has one and does just that.
These are just some general thoughts. (Trust me 100%) when I say that you could not have landed on a better site for advice. As you said, there is no shortage of choices in the air gun world today. There is much to learn and catch up on. People here are straight shooters and will not steer you wrong or hand you a line of B.S..
Good luck and I hope to see you around in the future,… Chris
If you get the right spring gun it will give you what you want.
But if you want to get something with extra features like a shroud for quiet shooting, a magazine for quick follow up shots, accurate and easy to shoot. I would say pcp is it.
You can get 20 shots on most pcp guns per fill. And up to 70+ shots from others.
I’m going to suggest two know guns that I have owned that could be what your looking for. But they are a bit heavy.
That’s the Marauder or Gauntlet rifle.
Now if you want a carbine type gun the Marauder pistol with a skelton type butt stock would be my next choice. Which is also a much lighter gun and I have had one of these also. They compare to the others I mentioned but lighter. Look at the 9th picture. It comes with that stock.
You will need the hand pump at the least with these guns.
Let me know what you think. Maybe there is something more simple like different types of accurate spring guns I have had.
Thank you. I checked out the PCP cost and it was more than I want to spend right now. I think that the spring gun from a quality company is what I’m leaning towards. What would you suggest?
You can get a PCP nowdays with a pump for the same cost as a spring gun.
Read my comments to you about the guns I have had and see what you think about them.
But that’s the problem now days. Mind you a good problem to have. But there is so many choices now days. And I’m talking good guns to choose from.
What you need to do is make a list of the most important things to you about what you want out of your air gun choice. Then see what fits you with the guns that are available.
And another thing. Will this be the only gun you purchase. Or will you upgrade later on or want a couple different types of air guns.
First is figure out what you really want to accomplish. Then see if any airgun fits your needs.
Do a lot of research before going out and spending a lot of money on an airgun. I will tell you about my experience, which has been a learning one. I made some mistakes early on when choosing an airgun. My purpose for the airgun was, and still is, to dispatch harassing house sparrows from my bluebird nesting boxes at 25 to 30 yards from the back of my house. In order to achieve any success I had to have an airgun capable of shooting 1″ or less groups at 25 yards.
I did some research online, before I found this blog by the way, and didn’t want to spend a ton of money on an airgun. Based on the reviews I read, I chose a Crosman Nitro Venom .22 with a gas piston. I paid $149 for the rifle combo that came with a cheap Center-Point 3-9×32 scope. I returned the first two for various quality issues and finally kept the third one. Then I discovered the trigger on this rifle was horrible. I immediately ordered an upgrade GRT-III trigger for another $32. Now I had $181 invested in an airgun. The trigger upgrade took care of the rough creepy Crosman trigger. Then I discovered that I could not hold a group better than 1.5 to 2″ at 20 yards. This wasn’t going to work for me. I thought because the airgun was lower priced that it probably just wasn’t accurate enough for my purpose. I tried shooting this gun for a year and missed more sparrows that I hit.
So I went online again looking for another airgun that would be more accurate. Everyone was raving about the accuracy of the Diana 34. I read lots of reviews and many were boasting 1/2″ groups at 25 yards. I decided to purchase a Diana 34 at that point. It was a nice combo with a very nice Hawke 3-9x50AO scope. This combo set me back $319. Now I had $499 invested in airguns. But this one would surely get the job done. It is a very high quality Germany airgun.
Then came a new learning experience. These airguns are only accurate with the right pellet! Now I had to buy several tins of various pellets to try in the Diana 34. This was before I knew the difference between a good quality pellet and the ones at Walmart. That’s another learning experience. Well guess what, I was shooting pretty much the same 1.5 to 2″ groups with the Diana 34 as I was with the Crosman. Now what do I do? Then I found this blog with many experienced airgun shooters. Many of them tried helping me with helpful suggestions. It was at this point I found out that these break barrel spring guns, or gas ram guns, are HOLD sensitive. What? I have to hold these airguns in a very specific hold or they are not accurate? This hold is called the “artillery” hold as named by B.B. He has a video here in Airgun Academy showing exactly how this hold is used and why it is necessary.
I tried very hard to learn this “artillery” hold with my Diana. I bought the Diana in the spring of 2013 and as of the summer of 2017, I had not gotten a bit more accurate with it and my groups were still 1.5 to 2″. I tried everything suggested here in the blog but nothing seemed to help my poor groups.
Finally, B.B. took pity on me and offered to test the Diana for me because he could not understand why I was not able to achieve good shot groups. I took him up on his offer and sent him my Diana in June 2017. He did a six part test of the Diana. He found that it had a broken main spring and replaced it with a Vortek Kit which was a much improved spring and guide. He also installed a BKL droop compensating scope mount on it because he felt that I may have been having to adjust the scope up too much. If that happens the erector tube can float and cause the scope to not hold zero. These items were both donated by the respective companies. B.B. was able to find the best pellet for my Diana and was also able to shoot a ten shoot group at 25 yards of less than one inch. Wonderful, at that point B.B. returned my Diana and I thought my problems had been resolved. Nope!
After getting my Diana 34 back I practiced the hold that B.B. had demonstrated he used to achieve good accuracy. I tried, and I tried, and practiced with at least 500 shots and I was still getting 1.5 to 2″ groups no matter how I held the Diana. Apparently, as some others, I am unable to shoot a break barrel airgun accurately. I don’t know the reason, I just know that there is nothing else I can do to improve my accuracy.
Now it’s 2018 and the bluebirds will soon be coming back to nest. Others here on the blog suggested that I would be better off with a PCP (precharged pneumatic) airgun because they are not at all hold sensitive like a spring airgun. I still was trying to keep within a budget and not spend a ton of money on a pesting tool. Fortunately, within the past twelve months many so called “entry level” PCP airguns have become
available. These are considered entry level because they are priced at, or below $300. Then in addition you have to buy a high pressure air source. Hand pumps are the cheapest HPA sources at $50 up to $250. So for an entry level PCP you are looking at spending a minimum of $350 plus another $100+ for a decent adjustable objective mil-dot scope. Okay, I am frustrated with my break barrel spring airguns. So I made a decision to purchase a PCP this spring.
I found a Gamo Urban on sale at the great price of $210. This is a pretty high quality PCP manufactured in the UK with a known good barrel and good accuracy. I bought an inexpensive hand pump for $85 to pressurize the Urban. Then I purchased a new UTG 3-13x44mm SWAT scope for it. I have a total of $500 in this airgun and pump and scope. If I had forgone the purchase of the break barrel airguns I would be in a much better financial position. If I only knew then, what I know now.
I have not had the chance to sight in the Urban outside yet at 25 yards. But I have been shooting it down in my basement at 15 yards. I was beginning to question whether I could still shoot a rifle accurately until I got this Urban. It has restored my confidence again. I’m shooting groups less than 1/4″ consistently at 15 yards so I am sure I will be able to achieve my goal of 1″ or less at 25 yards, and maybe out to 50 yards with the Urban. The Umarex Gauntlet is also a good choice for and entry level PCP and the Crosman Maximus too.
I chose the Urban because of the light weight and compact design.
I know this is a very long post but hopefully it will be helpful to you and you won’t make the same mistakes as I have made. Airgunning is a huge learning experience and this is the best place to learn it.
Best of luck with your airgunning experience.
Well said sir!!! 😉 Wow!… I have been with you since you first came on board here and I can honestly say that you have “graduated” to the well established and experienced commenter here. 😉 All said with the utmost of respect., of course.
Very solid and good advice. That is pretty much what I was saying too,… in “somewhat” less words. 😉
Thanks Chris, that means a lot coming from you. I did get a little wordy in my comment but I just had to tell my story. You and GF1 have been very encouraging to me as a newbie. I just hope I am as good as you fellows at encouraging other newbies.
You always have good post’s and have come a long way in a short amount of time. But, that post was over and above and I just felt that I had to comment,… or,.. errr?,… compliment you on it! 😉
Well written synopsis of your efforts to get 1 inch or better at 25 yards. Glad you have finally achieved this goal. I am perplexed the Diana 34 still does not work for you. I have to say I thought for awhile you were writing as a devil advocate. You have too much gun experience, technical ability and knowledge for me to think you can’t make that rifle shoot straight. I would expect that rifle of yours would put 10 inside an inch at 25 yards even mounted in a vise.
Thank you. I can’t say for certain that I have achieved the goal. Not until I can get outside and shoot some groups at 25 to 30 yards with the Urban and post my results on the blog showing it. I do have confidence that I will be able to do that soon though.
I too am perplexed as to why I am unable to shoot my Diana 34 accurately. I have given it every opportunity to perform for me…but there is a limit to my patience. If the accuracy is dependent on my ability to hold the 34 exactly the same each and every time in order to achieve good groups…it ain’t gonna happen. I can’t even get 1″ groups at 25 yards bench resting the 34, on my caldwell shooting bags, or resting on the open palm of my hand. Believe me, I have tried every nuance of the artillery hold and nothing has worked for me. I’m just tired of the battle and I figure that my serious shooting won’t be from a bench rest anyway, so there goes the consistent hold.
Today I shot a sparrow at 35 yards with the Urban and I haven’t even sighted it in for distance yet. I also shot a starling from my woodpecker feeder today. Two shots and two hits. 100% so far. That’s what I expected from the Diana 34. It’s got to be me but I don’t know what else I can do at this point to shoot the Diana accurately. I’ll try again at a later date and see what I can do with it.
Amazing story. Must be mind over matter. Well you are two for two with the Urban. Eventually you will miss of course but your confidence is building. Glad you will give the 34 some more chances.
Good luck to you.
I took the B3 out to the gun range on Friday. Perfect day for shooting airguns, it was dead calm. I had a tripod rest that I shot off the bench. I set the targets out to 30 yards, more or less, since that’s my zero for field target and the limit that I will shoot in the field. JSB 4.52 8.44’s and H&N 8.64 4.50 FTT’s went into about an inch and a half horizontally. The JSB’s had a circular group about an inch in diameter and two outside the group that made it an inch and a half. The FTT’s were a horizontal line. At 50 yards, I shot a group with the JSB’s that was about two and a half inches CTC and 2 3/4 to 4 1/4 inches low. As I mentioned earlier, the trigger is creepy and the gun is light so that my trigger pull might have contributed to the horizontal groups. A carbine sized underlever is a fun gun to shoot and is fast becoming my favorite gun. My R-1 with its 6×24 UTG scope is just too heavy to carry in the field. Anyone know of examples of carbine sized underlevers besides the TX200 Hunter Carbine?
That is some great shooting with a B3. Have you tried to tune it at all?
You can get vertical groups cause of trigger pull too. Technique of trigger pull comes into effect also with vertical groups.
But that is good shooting for your gun from what has been said about other people’s guns.
I decided to walk away from the WildFire for a while. It is still holding air though.
I sighted in my Crosman 101 that I put a .177 caliber Benjamin Maximus barrel on. I had to have the barrel machined to fit the breech. It was cut down a little small, A little large would have been perfect. I may use some epoxy if I decide to keep it in the gun. I have minimized the air leak at the transfer port with some polishing so it is ok for now. The hammer also does not seal well on this barrel. That is because the barrel was cut too long and the bolt does not reach the best spot on the cam. I have to hold the bolt down with my thumb when I shoot. If this barrel stays on I will make a new bolt with an O-ring to seal against the barrel. Every thing is working ok just the bolt is a pain right now.
I shot 10 shots with Crosman Premiers 7.9 gr out of the cardboard box. And used 7 pumps. I think the .177 barrel may be a little better than the .22 Maximus barrel I had in the gun earlier. The .22 barrel fit perfect compared to this one though.
Again the gun is shooting as good or better than I can with a peep sight at 20 yards. I will be checking different pellets and longer distances over the next few days. The weather here is suppose to be good with lots of sun in the next week.
Here is the target, I kept it right side up this time.
Don’t remember. Is that group better than with the original barrel?
The original brass barrel was wore out. Based on my memory which is not good the original barrel was about 2 inches plus at 20 yards.
I think the gun can do much better than this. That is about the best I can do with a peep and post sight. You may note that four pellets went in the same hole. Does not mean much but It feels like it is shooting better than I can see. And those are the first pellets I tried.
People say peeps are good. But besides that point.
What next for a sight then?
Peep sights are good. If i had inserts on the front sight instead of a post I could do a little better. My old eyes just can’t see that well. I could push the guns limits with a scope. I do not think I will put a scope on it. I would need to build a mount for the scope.
This mount may be adaptable.
Yep I’m thinking you might tighten up your groups with that.
Thanks for the info. My old Sheridan is open sites from the 1960’s and easily shoots thru coffee cans at 8 pumps. The Gamo has a scope and a suppressor of sorts. Its pretty accurate at 20 yards most of the time. I haven’t found a great pellet for it yet. I will tell you that the .177 will kill a rat, but sometimes they scream louder than the gun. That’s why I thought that a 22 cal. might be a good choice. A little more knockdown power and potential for some other vermin like prairie dogs. I’m not opposed to a PCP, but I don’t know much about them yet. Can I use my air compressor or a bike pump? How do you recharge them in the field?
Check out this gun B.B. has been reviewing. If you get a hand pump you do not need to fill it all the way to the top as it is regulated.
You can go back to each part of the report from Part 5.
The hand pumps are high pressure specially made to fill air guns. They go up to and over 3000 psi. You need to be willing to pump 50-100 pumps for a typical fill.
Or you can buy a special air gun compressor. The price is coming down on them.
On the compressors some of them have special requirements like an automotive compressor to feet the high pressure compressor. So you need to read about them and ask questions till you are sure you know what you are getting into.
I meant to say “automotive compressor to feed (not feet) the high pressure compressor”
If you hit “reply” to the comment that you wish to respond to, it will respond directly to that commenter and they will see it. It appears that you are starting a new post each time, which is fine, if that is what you intend. Just some FYI.
A PCP takes high pressure air that can go to/up to 4,500 psi. That takes a special pump, of which there is hand pumps (and yes, they do look like bicycle pumps), or an electric compressor that will do the job. PCP’s have “tanks” on the guns that store that high pressure air. Most guns will give 16 ~ 40+ shots on 1 fill of air. If you are concerned with taking an air supply out to the field, a hand pump or a “buddy bottle” as they are called, is the answer there.
An additional thought is,.. do you plan to have the gun rested in any way while shooting? If so, or not, weight is a factor that you may want to consider.
Thank you. I wondered how that was working.
I think that I will read up on the PCP’s and see if that is what I want. I usually shoot off a rest from the deck, but sometimes off-hand.
The Gamo break barrel guns are not the most desirable guns.
So don’t base that gun on other break barrel or spring guns that are available.
There are a bunch of them that are real accurate, quiet and need no fill device.
Here is a few I had that I know are accurate.
There are more also. But I have had these and they are accurate in the right hands.
The reason a .22 is a better choice for hunting or pesting is because it is a bigger diameter. So sight error when you shoot can be made up with the bigger diameter pellet.
A .25 caliber would even be better. More power flatter shooting most of the time because of more power.
But a .177 will work also. I have taken many rats out to 30 yards with a Crosman 760.
So saying that if you did want to go the spring gun route and have a accurate easy to shoot gun. Maybe this gun would work for you. I have one of these and have no problem taking starlings out to 30 yards and with open sights. And the guns I have listed are quality guns. Well in my experience anyway.
Hi BB et al..
Nice blog so far on the B3 pellet rifle. If you recall from an earlier blog of mine I had also bought one of these guns from an online surplus store a couple years ago. It was cheap, even in CDN$ so I wasn’t expecting too much. I already had a B3-3 in .22 cal. bought in the early 2000’s and thought it would be approximately the same quality. That .22 was good quality and a nice shooter.
Not even close! That .177 cal. B3 was one of the poorest air rifles I had ever bought. The cocking effort was right up there with the Hatsan Torpedo magnum rifle that I bought shortly afterwards – pushing 60 lbs and it felt like dragging a heavy concrete block over a pile of rocks! As well the stock had a few volcanoes liberally placed over it. That’s what they looked like, pushing a little ball of dried sap up through the cracked varnish layer.
And I said to myself ‘WOW’ – a gun that l can not only tune but refinish the stock on as well!
That was just before the first right hand Carpel Tunnel surgery and by the time I had and recovered from the second left hand surgery almost a year had passed.
I then decided to cut down the size of my airgun collection. After a few shots on the B3 the cheap, cast zinc clamp-on trigger guard safety broke, the unpinned front sight began a walk around the muzzle and although shooting not too badly the noise the gun made left me not wanting to shoot it at all.
It was the first gun on the list to go which ended up being a 200 pound shipping crate of airguns.
The .22 cal. B3-2/3 ended up being sold last fall. It was a great squirrel gun that I used for years, it just didn’t have the range. 30 yards max! That B3 had the pinned front sight of the B3-2 with the combed stock and built in safety and anti bear-traps of the much newer B3-3. I scoped that gun with a Leapers 4×40 AO MD and removed the iron sights replacing the front sight with a large/heavy muzzle weight. It was built by a non-descript Chinese Company that had super quality control as shown by its excellent build and distributed by Xisico.
(See the attached photo).
The name B3 was pretty common back then (1990’s) as in the .177 and .22 cal. Bam B3 – 1′ s. These AK style guns were well built and capable of many thousands of shots. My first .177 cal. Bam B3 now has in excess of 50,000 shots on it.
(See attached photos).
Thank you. I checked out the PCP cost and it was more than I want to spend right now. I think that the spring gun from a quality company is what I’m leaning towards.
Well, at least you are narrowing down the field of choices. One thought though,… your multi pump is like shooting a PCP. A gentle push back and poof. The springer/gas ram on the other hand has a (forward bump) first, then the piston hits the high pressure air pocket and recoils to the rear. Then the pellet leaves the barrel and there is a slight forward movement again. That is called the shot cycle. Why do I mention this? For one, you have examples of both types already in your hands. Which one’s of the 2 you have now do you prefer?
All I am saying is that compare a quality hand pump and a budget PCP (against) a quality springer. The springer will be tougher to shoot. There is that added thump and bump thing happening. A PCP will be smoother and easier to shoot right out of the box.
On a personal note,.. I had a TX200 and still have a Walther LGU (before) I got into PCP’s. I prefer the PCP’s to the springer’s,.. but that is just me.
There is a lot to digest. There is a lot of choices. Take your time. Sometimes, you can end up spending more (stepping) your way to the goal then it would be just to spend the extra and get what you want and need the first time around.
That is not meant to be pressure in any way, it is just some good solid advice. Personally, me? now?,.. I would have went with PCP’s right out of the gate knowing what I do now.
Very good advice. I wish I had gotten that advice before I invested so much time and money into spring guns. And I’m inclined to agree with you…PCPs right out of the gate. Saves time and money in the long run. This is what I basically posted in my comment to Mugwump too.
The Bam B3 is a cool gun.
Gunfun1 – check my reply futrther down!
I am stealing someone else’s pet recommendation but since Hive Seeker has not chipped in, you might like a 2400KT from Crosman Custom Shop. He (and I) have .22 with 14″ Lothar Walter barrel. You can read all about his journey on this blog. Just search on 2400KT. I think 30 yds might be pushing its limit for pesting. Do some reading and decide if it fits your needs. I have several German break barrels -fine rifles that shoot well, but I would not hesitate to use the 2400KT on a squirrel at 25 yds.
That’s a very good suggestion. They should work well out to 30 yards for a rat. I didn’t even think about a Co2 gun. Matter of fact a 2260 would probably work too.
Yes it is a cool gun. Hardly ever done any maintenance to that gun, ĵust a drop or two of Slick50 every few years thru the transfer port to keep the piston seal lubed. Even the transfer port seal has stood up to the test of time. Not bad for a 25 year old gun.
Got the Chief’s scope figured out. Just moved it back about 1¼”. Shoots real good now and the heart beat is gone since I started resting the butt on my left hand instead of pulling into my shoulder.
Bench bipod shooting really needs a properly placed scope.
I have about 250 shots on the gun now and it’s starting to shoot real well. The last group I shot this afternoon was about ⅜” for 20 shots at 15 yards.
Also looks like 14 fills from the 90ci 4500 psi cf Ninja tank.
Nice on all.
What psi you filling the Cheif to?
2000psi for 20 shots down to 1000psi. I will chrony and graph for the proper bell curve after the 500 shot breakin.
I was wondering how you got 14 fills out of the 90 cubic inches. I see with the fill pressure your using.
Do you think it will be a good pesting gun out at farther distances? Forgot. What pellets you using?
14.5 gn Crosman domes and I think it will be good for squirrels out to 50 yards. It has better specs than my Browning Leverage which is good for squash balls at 50 yards which are equal to or a touch bigger than the side profile of a squirrels head.
Thanks. Good to know.
Your going to have to post some pictures when you get to shoot out at further distances.
Sounds like it’s turning out to be a nice gun.
I am beguining to really like this gun and can hardly wait for the snow to go so I can get out on my outdoor range. About 3ft deep now with a few places 5ft deep on the way to the range. We had a big snow winter this year!!
Yep that’s alot of snow. We use to get a foot in the winter but haven’t seen that for sometime now.
So that means you got some time before the ground clears yet. Guess that means more inside shooting practice.
how can I ask a question here I have an old air rifle wonder if anybody knows its history
Welcome to the blog.
Try to describe your airgun as accurately as you can and post pictures if possible.
Actually I grew up with this rifle in .177 and has a long barrel as Diana 350 about 19 inches extremely accurate once our neighbor asked me to let him have my gun for about 1hour I gave him only 5 pellets as I remember He came back with 4 birds (the guy died in a car accident)…
It has a flying bird logo with a “J” word inside a shield and on the barrel is engraved Model 35
Be patient. BB gets busy. He will surely have something for you. It looks like a Diana 35, but he will know much more. There is quite a few variations of the Diana models.
Check this out. There is quite a bit. I just entered Diana 35 in the search box.
Thanks. My email blew up and I was in the middle of a 2-hour session, getting it back.
That’s a Diana model 35, as you now know. You can read my report on it.
It’s probably a little tired by now, but you have Diana’s ball-bearing trigger that can be set very nice. Read what I said about setting the trigger here.
It’s written about a 27, but the triggers are the same.
Thank you Sir
But I don’t think it’s a Diana I grew up with air guns and I can smell a Diana from a miles away 🙂 it has a bird logo with a “J” word under it maybe stands for Junior I don’t know
The only trace I found on internet was a guy refurbished this rifle selling it years ago described he found the same bird logo in pad section at the end of the rifle and name UNICA was written but I can find it on mine maybe mine is vanished during time still no trace on internet or anywhere else
Thank you Sir
But I don’t think it’s a Diana I grew up with air guns and I can smell a Diana from a miles away 🙂 it has a bird logo with a “J” word under it maybe stands for Junior I don’t know
The only trace I found on internet was a guy refurbished this rifle selling it years ago described he found the same bird logo in pad section at the end of the rifle and name UNICA was written but I cant find it on mine maybe mine is vanished during time still no trace on internet or anywhere else
It has actually a Unique design from sighting system to the end of the Cylinder that is edged to somehow spread the recoil all over the gun not to a direct point as you can see new rifles like gamo g2 somehow using this style but it’s really a pain changing spring and a long barrel about 50cm
and this gun entered our family about 30y ago
Japan, South Africa and maybe others knocked off the Diana designs. I think it’s something like that.
I really wished I can get something from this airrifle community but never heard of African or Japanese air guns
what if Diana knocked off other designs
Is Diana first designed that ball in breach like FWB 124 or the trigger safety ? I wonder which one is first
Diana had the ball bearing detent long before Feinwerkbau. I’m not sure what you mean by the trigger safety.
Diana dates back to the beginning of the 20th century. You really should invest in a Blue Book of Airguns if you want to know more.
thanks have a nice day
By all means, seriously consider getting a Blue Book (as BB said). I have one. It is invaluable and filled with tons of information as well as several hundred pictures.
not available in our Land, Sir
I wonder which countries use CAL 4.5 instead of CAL.177 30 years ago as you can see written on my gun
that would be a clue to trace its history I guess
when I say it was accurate believe me it was dead accurate
The 4.5 refers to millimeters (mm) and the .177 refers to thousandths of an inch. A can of .177 pellets (today) is marked with both .177 and 4.5
…. “our Land”? What country are you from if you do not mind me asking?
It is always a real treat to hear from people in other parts of the World. We all can learn something from one another. BB says that we have people read this blog from all over the World, but very few in other countries ever comment.
** Also, if you go the (current) days blog, more people will see your comment. Just go to the “Recent Comments” at the top right and click on the top article. The blog runs Monday ~ Friday and the Friday blog gets lots of comments since it runs over Fri., Sat., Sun..
Hope to hear more from you.
I am from Persia and I always read this blog I really like when you respect old rifles when someone make a project reviving an old mate just look at this guy and what a great job he pushed himself through that’s what I call a true Airgunner : https://www.co2air.de/thema/74038-feinwerkbau-sport-modell-124-zerlegen/
I really can’t trust pcp or np rifles because they are loosely dependent on small plastic parts like O-rings and a small leak means your gun is just a stick in your hand to me they are just powerful accurate nature destroying killing machine Toys that will bring many small size animals to the edge of extinction many people killing animals easily with this pcp rifles calling them pest to justify their stupid course of action with a smile on the camera and that’s wrong, just search for example youtube to see what this Toys in wrong hands are doing to our limited nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhaiBknNsU
this is not hunting ! hunting is not fun taking a life is not fun hunting should happen when you or your family really need that animal’s meat you don’t go hunting with advanced super expensive guns and gears that’s just WRONG
anyway when I saw someone taking time describing this old Chinese rifle I can feel there is spirit a true Air gunner spirit just imagine an Apocalypse happens and you are on your own you have to walk at least 300 miles to find a better place you have a lever action in .22lr with 20 bullets more would be so heavier a pcp and a magnum springer and you have reserved some pellet cans as you know each can at least has hundred 100 of pellets inside and can be put in your backpack not so heavy and I saw people taking down hugs with magnum springers there would be no more powder no more bullets very soon… so which 1 do you choose for your long unidentified journey?! although .22lr is more reliable but you cant carry 100 of its bullets or more easily a pcp is powerful and dead accurate but would you trust a pcp with a hand pump for your lonely journey ?
A spring powered air rifle can be used as a survival tool it does not wear out leak or fail you even with broken parts if rarely happen
just wanted to share my opinions and I have more on this b3 and lever action system
Thank you for the response. I do not speak or understand another language, so I always admire anyone that can.
You bring up some good points on hunting and game harvesting. You might be surprised that there is many in the U.S. that (agree with you). Perhaps the perception of the U.S. in other parts of the World is that we just blast away at anything that moves??? Yes, there is those types too, but they are in the minority I do believe. Opinions vary and what is acceptable in one part of the World, and U.S., is not in others. I just do my best to understand other peoples’ points of view.
You also bring up good points on which air rifle would be best in a survival situation. I would have to agree with you that a spring gun is the most simple and has the least amount of things that may break or need repair.
I also like to see old things and see them restored to their previous glory. I did open both of your links.
As you say,… “till next”,….. 😉
I finally managed to save some cash and buy My dream AirRifle
I am still at shock of happiness great Joy and Its devastating POWER
Well,…… what is it? A picture would be nice if you can do that.
This is a really tough cooking pot that I shot from 10m it penetrated both side and a cement block stopped the bullet (22 grain monster pellet ) from destroying further
It shoots these around 790~800 fps
and it’s a Spring Powered piece of ART
Riot, I will start a new post down at the bottom in a minute. We are out of room on the current thread.
Thank you for the fine pictures. Yes, that air rifle has some power. Nice too that it is a .22 caliber. All of mine have been .22 with the exception of the .25 Marauder.
I was outside doing some work. I am getting ready to go out and shoot now. I put a regulator in my .22 Maximus and also a different scope,… so I need to re-sight it. We finally have some warmer weather (supposed to be 70 F today) after a long extended Winter.
till next,….. 🙂
mine is a spring powered one weights around 9.9 pounds and about 49.22 inches long it kicks hard but has two shock absorbing parts that reduce the recoil it cost me about 100 bucks MONSTER Air Rifle
This weekend I put an empty plastic bottle lightly in sand at seaside and we shot at it first from 20 mtr .. first shot went through and we thought it was a miss because the bottle didn’t move at all and actually it could fell with a light touch of hand we checked it out and yes there was the holes ! I can’t believe a 22 grain pellet hit a loose empty plastic bottle and it doesn’t fall Very interesting to me
I will upload Rifle photos very soon
Have a nice safe day out there
It sounds very nice. Looking forwards to the pictures. Yes, at closer range a target will barely move. At further range, it will thump a target real good and make it jump.
It is kind of the same principal as hunting. A shot that stays within the animal, but penetrates well, is better than one that passes through,… in most cases.
22 grains? That is a heavy pellet for a .22 springer! I usually shoot 15.89 and 18.13 grain JSB pellets in my .22’s. But, if yours is doing 790-800 fps, that is enough power for a 22 grain. It should make the rifle shoot smoother and is better for wind as the 22 grain pellet can not be blown off course as easy.
Back out to shoot some more,…..
yeah it shoots darn smooth but I really feel like I’m holding a .308 when lock n loaded
you won’t believe what I’m saying until you hold one of this heavy mates
49″ is long,… real long by most standards. What is the brand name? Is it a custom built air gun? 9.9# is very heavy too by most standards. That extra weight is helping it feel smooth. Is it scoped?
As for “**** smooth”,… (darn) smooth,… (real) smooth,…. (very) smooth would be preferred. As B.B. reminds us,.. this blog is read by families with small children so we always try to keep our language “family” friendly. No problem, but that would be “just” over the limit.
I corrected your comment. Please keep your language fit for families, as we have many families who read this blog together.
Here is the big soccer (polite version 😉 I was talking about as you can see I put a metal ruler near the gun so you can calculate its length the ruler is about 32 cm
Very nice. Yes, that looks big. I like that thumb hole stock. I would guess that it is very comfortable to shoot. I do not have any like that.
That looks familiar. I am surprised that there is no wording on the metal. Just 1350? No words of any kind? I would like to know the history and what company made it.
By the way, if you post on the current day blog,.. more people will see your comments.
Till next,….. 🙂
That butt pad looks (exactly) like what Hatsan uses on some of there guns. My Blue Book had nothing that matched yours exactly, but very close. Turkey is close to you, so that makes sense that it might be a Hatsan.
I am looking forward to hearing if you find any wording at all on the metal.
The 130QE looks very close
The sound moderator looks a little different though.
hahaaa yes Chris my man this is a hatsan 1350 and as I heard specially ordered and made for Persia as 1250 and 1450 and some other unique models and as you can see Iran is written on the right side of the gun and this is the official hatsan distributor website : https://airguns.ir/shop/
this gun makes Diana looks like a toy eXtremely Powerful along with accuracy
🙂 Very interesting. You will have to shoot some groups at targets on paper to give us an idea how accurate it is. 10, 25 and 50 yards (or meters) would kind of be the standard.
I am glad you are happy,.. ok,… VERY HAPPPY 😉 with your new purchase.
You said that it cost about 100 bucks,… so if that is US dollars?, then that would make it a very good deal. That rifle would be around 250-300 here.
I like Hatsan as they have many good ideas and seem to be always striving to improve their ideas and designs. They are known for high fps (speed) too.
Till next,…… 🙂
Chris this rifle is so POwerful you really don’t want to put pellets under 22grain as it might hurt the gun’s inner parts and also in its guide book and the distributor warned not to use light pellets you might reach 1250 fps or more with the casual 15grains but that would hurt the washer gradually
yup it’s around 100 $ here
hatsan motto is Sirius Solid Impact and they are doing it really Well with very fair price
This picture is from rifle’s guidebook just look at the size of that 22grain Marshal !!
It came with a free bipod, 1 extra Spring and 1 washer and the distributor actually gifted me the pellets no charge
I scope the gun I will group for you sure thing
They don’t make this model in .177 as it’s s over powered for the tiny pellet
Looking forwards to when you get a scope. In the mean time, you can practice with the open sights.
When you post again in the future,… look at the “Recent Post” and click on the top article,…. (or) the same one should show up on the main page. That will be the most recent one. More people will see your comments. Only people that use the Comments RSS will see your post (not many).
You will get more comments that way. Off (current) topic is ok. We do it all the time.
Till next,…… 🙂
ok I will post my grouping on new post blog tQ
I don’t think you ever saw one either in well known blue book I will upload the photo and let you guess but its Model name is 1350 It’s not custom built It’s just a dream came true for Me and I can’t express how much joy I feel holding this Monster
Yup it’s around 9.9 lbs and 49″ long it has a pretty functional sound suppressor and comes with a free bipod
I am actually planning to buy a 9X magnification scope that would add about 500 grams to the rifle I like it heavy Sir