by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
ASG CZ 75 P-07 Duty BB pistol with blowback.
This report covers:
- Stick magazine
- The quirk
- ASG Blaster BBs
- Daisy Premium Grade BBs
- Dust Devils
- Shot count
- Trigger pull
- Blowback/recoil
- Summary
Today we look at the velocity of the ASG CZ-75-P-07-Duty-BB-pistol. As I said in Part 1, this is a compact pistol, but a duty size that’s larger than a pocket pistol.
Stick magazine
The stick magazine is separate in the front of the grip. It holds 20 BBs that are loaded through the top. The follower is smooth and light and has a lockout notch at the bottom of the mag, so it’s out of the way for loading. I found the mag pretty quick to load, but it did have one quirk.
The quirk
Sometimes, when a BB doesn’t register through the chronograph during a shot string, I have to load a single BB after the magazine has been emptied to complete the 10 shots. This mag doesn’t work well that way, because the top BB doesn’t stay in place. It falls out of both the front and back of the mag, but when there is another BB beneath it to push it up, it remains in place. I guess when you get to the last BB in the gun, the gun must hold it in place because there were no jams or failures to feed throughout this test. You just can’t load a single BB into the mag and have it stay in place. Other than me, I doubt anyone would want to do that.
ASG Blaster BBs
I tested with ASG Blaster BBs first. They averaged 364 f.p.s. for 10 fired with a 10-15-second delay between shots for temperature control. The P-07 doesn’t seem very sensitive to cool-down, so I think you can shoot it as fast as you like. You will loose some velocity but for the first 3 magazines it shouldn’t be much.
The spread went from a low of 360 to a high of 367 f.p.s. That’s just 7 f.p.s. variance, which is very small for a CO2 gun.
Daisy Premium Grade BBs
Next I tried 10 Daisy Premium Grade BBs. I consider them to be the standard of the BB world. At one time they were the absolute best, but other brands have come along that are now just as good. By “good” I mean they are a uniform size and free from manufacturing defects like the old Benjamin BBs I showed you yesterday. Today there are enough good BBs on the market that you have to try each of them to find what works best in your gun.
Daisy BBs averaged 367 f.p.s. in the P-07 Duty. The low was 363 and the high was 373 f.p.s., so the spread was 10 f.p.s.
Dust Devils
The final BB I tested were the Dust Devil BBs from Air Venturi. We know these are almost a full grain lighter, plus they are made of steel rather than lead, so they will go faster. They averaged 385 f.p.s. in the P-07 and the spread was 20 f.p.s. — from a low of 376 to a high of 396 f.p.s.
Shot count
After the three chronograph tests were over the CO2 cartridge that had started fresh had 33 shots on it, so I kept shooting for record. Because the P-07 has a slide hold-open feature that holds the slide after the last shot, and because it worked flawlessly for this test, I shot actual BBs to get the shot count. If I had shot blanks I would have had to release the slide after each shot. Or I could have just left the magazine out and the gun would have fired. I shot the ASG BB for this test.
Shots……..Velocity
55…………..363
75…………..333
95…………..288
105…………255
I stopped shooting after 105 shots, and within less than 5 more shots the slide was no longer coming back far enough to cock the hammer. I think you can plan on getting around five good magazines on a single cartridge.
Trigger pull
This is where I got a surprise, but I believe I know what’s happening. The P-07 trigger is heavier than expected. The test pistol trigger breaks at 7 lbs. 3 oz. I wonder if that is done to be representative of the firearm trigger?
Blowback/recoil
The ASG CZ 75 P-07 Duty has a metal slide that comes back all the way, but the slide is lightweight, so the recoil impulse is not that heavy. I may have more to say about it when I shoot the pistol for accuracy.
Summary
That’s it for the velocity test. The P07 gives respectable velocity for a BB pistol with blowback and 100+ shots per cartridge. The gun feels very good in the hand and I can’t wait to see how accurate it is.
The current crop of BB and pellet pistols are pushing the limits of authenticity when it comes to looking like the firearms they were copied from. This CZ 775 P-07 Duty is one more very realistic BB gun!
B.B.
I thought 2 weeks ago you said you would have a review of the Sig Scope, next week?
-Y
Yogi,
No, I said I would get to it when the scope arrived. I don’t have it or the rifle yet.
B.B.
B.B.
I am (pleasantly) surprised at the shot-count on the ASG CZ 75 P-07 especially since it has a blow-back feature.
Off hand, what would you consider to be a typical shot-count for regular and blow-back type pistols?
Would you expect BB and pellet pistols (with similar features) to have the similar shot counts?
Hank
Hank,
I didn’t expect to see more than 75 shots from this one. Blow backs range from a low of 60 shots to as many as we see today.
Now, I have seen far more than this on a non blow back pistol that shot at low velocity. I saw over 220- shots from an AP661 pistol that uses an 8-gram cartridge. But that one shot in the low 200s.
B.B.
Thanks B.B!
I have specific uses/applications based on performance (with some obvious overlap) in which each of my airguns excel.
Following the same thinking, it would make sense that a Co2 BB pistol does not need a lot of power for it’s effective range and higher shot-count would be a net benefit.
I am starting to see these types of pistols as “replica” models that are OK for casual plinking – that good looks take precedence over being able to cook.
Is that a reasonable perspective?
Hank
Hank,
Is it reasonable? I don’t know, but that’s my perspective as well.
B.B.
BB,
In the list of velocities at various numbered shots, you listed shot 55 twice, the second time with a 288 velocity next to it and I think it was in error. I don’t understand the numbers otherwise.
Half
Half,
Good catch! I glossed right over it. It’s corrected.
B.B.
Vana2,
When you get right down to it, wouldn’t you have to say that the actual firearms being replicated are really just capable of “plinking” level accuracy? They, for the most part, are intended to be fired at close range, at large ( usually human sized) targets, quickly and with rapid follow up shots. I’m hoping that at the end of these real gun/airgun comparison reports BB will be able to tell us whether or not we can expect to hit “it” whatever sort of target “it” may be, with the airgun, if we have the skill to do it with the firearm. That’s the question I would most like to see answered.
Half
Halfstep,
Not B.B. but: I think the replicated powder burners are actually capable of better than plinking accuracy. The typical powder burners shooter is NOT! Most don’t practice nearly as much as they should for a number of reasons; place to do it, cost of range time, cost of ammo and poor results last time they did shoot.
Maybe, just maybe, if those pistolero practice getting better with their replica airgun they will become better then just PLINKERS with their firearms!
Shoot clean or GO Home!
shootski
Not from Poland,
I have to respectfully disagree.
To my knowledge, at least, the vast majority of the firearms being replicated are duty/open carry type guns. Those are designed for reliable function as well as stopping power. Pinpoint, 10 meter pistol accuracy takes a distant 3rd place. Center mass of a man sized target at a reasonable distance, which I have come to understand as being well under 15 yards, is acceptable accuracy for those guns. Can they be made to shoot better? Sure, but it’s almost always at the expense of reliability and will require ammo that I wouldn’t want to defend my life with. The trigger pull weight alone keeps most of these guns in the plinking realm, IMO. Don’t want a nervous twitch to cause an accidental discharge at a stressful time when in combat or a defensive scenario.
I used to read every gun mag that I could get my hands on for many years and I still read “The American Rifleman”, and they have published many accuracy tests over the years using Ransom Rests and props like sand bags to take the shooter out of the equation as much as possible. From what I have seen in those results, most service type guns only offer what I’d call plinking accuracy.
Half
Hey Half,
I must respectfully agree with your comments!
I thought we were talking about bb gun accuracy. Obviously airguns shooters, and especially those with almost any level of 10 meter pistol experience are going to call most PB accuracy plink worthy ONLY. I hope you will grant me that there are Duty/Every Day Carry (EDC) guns; like my Kimber, Tactical Custom II, full size 1911 even with a 4 pound trigger pull can be reliable and accurate to better than bb pistol accuracy. I have been very lucky being able to average at least 200 rounds every month for the past 45 years through Armory grade to Custom .45 APC slingers. I have shot many other handguns and long weapons over the years of Service and as a private citizen but always return to Browning’s 1911 because it feels like an extension of both of my arms.
At 15 yards (better still at 25) a PB shooter should be able to put 10 rounds into a B-27E (man size upper body silhouette) 10 pt. oval. On the move that same shooter needs to put 10 into the 7 pt. ring (center of mass) or better; but then that is Practical shooting not target shooting. I have someone else load snap caps at random into my magazines so I can’t know when I’ll be doing malfunction clearing to get my gun running. I don’t see all to many PB shooters really training for malfunctions anymore…sad state of affairs. Realistic malfunctions is one of the things pellet or bb replicas can’t replicate very well for now…listening manufacturers?
In the end all trigger time is beneficial if done with purpose and if it brings a smile to our faces.
Not Polish either; but a shooting skier…BIATHLON = Shoot Clean or GO Home!
Winter and SNOW is coming in three months or so to some of my favorite places!!!
shootski
Half,
Interesting to read the dialog between you and Shootski.
Here in Canada, pistols are heavily regulated (for the honest person anyway) and casual shooting in not permitted. I have had a bit of trigger time with a .22 rimfire revolver from when I fished in New York state but never achieved more than plinking (large) can accuracy.
My pistol experience is with my 10 meter, FWB 100 and as a result, my accuracy expectations are (unfairly) based on that. Being used to “minute of an aspirin” accuracy (in the pistol – not the shooter 🙂 ) the “minute of a pail” accuracy came as a real shock to me – I presumed that the powder burning pistols were (relatively) accurate and it was mostly the shooter who was the weak part of the equation. That kinda spilled over and colored my expectations in the Co2 BB and pellet pistols being reviewed.
I know better now from reading this blog (Thanks Tom!!) and from the comments the knowledgeable people here – thanks guys!
Hank
Hank,
The handguns that are carried by police and soldiers ARE accurate in their own way. Just not to the level of a 10 meter gun. The competitions that are conducted with service type guns are shot at short range at things like 8″ metal disks, bowling pins, man sized silhouettes, and things that are shaped like the vital area of a human. That is a lot like what I’m doing when I “plink”. I suspect that we are going to find that the airgun replicas are going to, more or less, be capable of playing the same sort of games, though maybe on a slightly reduced scale because of the reduced power and range. We’ll see when BB gets all of the comparisons covered, I guess.
You spoke of shooting a .22 LR revolver. Many of those and their semi-auto brethren are much more accurate out of the box than the average service gun, once you find the ammo that they like. The limited number of airgun replicas of rimfire handguns that I have owned ( the Crosman Mark I and Mark II, which replicates the Ruger Mark I, II,III,IV, and the Browning Buckmark, which replicates the gun of the same name) have proven to be pretty close to the great accuracy that the firearms have. But they are not duty or service guns, which is what I was discussing with Shootski.
I’m sorry that you can’t just shoot casually as most of us down here can. You guys seem to have the one thing that would really make it conveniently fun, SPACE. I would think that recoiling, pellet firing semi-autos would be of great interest to you. I have to do much of my shooting with them because I live in a residential area and find that they are a very satisfying substitute for firearm plinking until I can find my way out to the country.
Half
B.B. or anyone who can help,
I just received a brand-new in the box $100 S&W M&P40 (the one with blowback) and while the threaded CO2 cap unscrewed easily, I can’t get the threads to mate to screw it back in. 1st, does it screw in at a slight angle, or does it screw in so that the plane of the screw face is parallel to the plane of the bottom of the magazine.
I put silicone based typewriter oil on the threads at the very beginning, as these guns are infamous for their soft metal. Even just using my fingers, no allen tool, it has started to cross-thread twice. With just light finger pressure, the first thread already has its paint gone and might be just slightly deformed.
Is this ASG made? Is it distributed by Umawrecks?
It will be frustrating if this is essentially DOA.
Michael
Michael,
Have you tried unscrewing the cap until the threads click? That’s the start of the thread connection. It usually works for me when things want to cross-thread.
B.B.
B.B.,
I tried that technique about 100 times, to no avail. :^(
And the metal is about as hard as molding clay.
Michael
B.B.,
I finally got it after sorting through a dozen Powerlets and finding one that is 2/100s of an inch shorter than the other nine. The threads are slightly damaged, however, as I had the easy-harder, easy-harder, easy-harder rotation of the plug all the way in. If it leaks, that will be the cause, probably.
It takes an awful lot of nerve to sell an airgun this poorly made for $100 retail and extra magazines like this for $45 retail.
Michael
Uh, make that “other eleven.” The truth is it was three handfuls of Powerlets that I simply grabbed from my cardboard box that initially had 500 (THE way to buy ’em). It was somewhere between nine and 12.
Michael
B.B.,
Well, I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I dry fired it, and I got a good, loud bang without the dreaded “pffffffft!” all of us have come to know with older CO2 guns that need new seals.
I will let it sit for 24 hours and see how it is for a couple shots, then another 24 hours, etc.
Michael
Michael,
I wish I had seen this sooner. You are correct. The threads run parallel to the BODY of the mag. That means that they have to be at an angle to the BOTTOM of the mag. The fact that the screw is shaped like a thin wafer makes it hard to visualize when you have it aimed right. I find that focusing on the angle of my hex wrench helps me get everything lined up and parallel to the sides of the mag. I had the same problem when I first got mine.
If you managed to get the co2 pierced, I’d guess that you haven’t wrecked the threads. If you can see a deformed thread you should probably dress it up a little with a triangular file or a strip of sandpaper if you can. You don’t want a bad thread going in and out, over and over, reshaping all the threads in the gun.
Half
Halfstep,
Thanks for the tip about trying a modest repair of any threads that are slightly deformed. All that happened with just light finger pressure, no tools at that point. From experience with many CO2 air guns I know to be gentle. Man that is soft metal.
So far no evidence of a slow leak, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Michael
B.B.,
On-topic, I must say that as a thick-fingered guy, I very much like the profile of this CZ’s trigger guard. If I owned one, I would see if a machinist could make a new trigger with a blade that is straight and points almost straight down, much like some of the Sig Sauer triggers.
Michael