by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Beeman P1 air pistol.
This report covers:
- Do I plan my blogs?
- So — why this one?
- The sight
- P1 damaged
- How does it look?
- Impressions
- Summary
It’s been a long time since we looked at this pistol. Part 9 was published nearly a year ago. And the series was started on the first of November, 2017. So, let me bring you up to speed.
As I was packing up to leave the 2017 Texas Airgun Show, a gentleman approached me for a trade. We traded and I ended up with a Beeman P1 pistol. I already owned a P1 that I had purchased many years before, but this one was nice and it came with everything I needed to rebuild the powerplant — if that was required.
When I tested the velocity in Part 2 it turned out this pistol was doing very well, but I encountered what I thought was a bit of hard cocking. It turned out not to be the case, but I tore open the gun anyway, so we could look inside. Then I tuned it with Tune in a Tube (TIAT) grease and we learned some things about that.
At the end of Part 9 I said I would like to test this pistol with a dot sight, and a couple weeks later I was in the Leapers booth at the SHOT Show where I saw what I thought would be the perfect sight — the UTG RDM20 Reflex Micro Dot. I had also seen that sight at the 2017 SHOT Show, but these products take time to develop. You may remember I showed you a picture of it when I reported on the Pyramyd Air Cup this year.
Leapers UTG Reflex Micro Dot is small and compact, yet offers a wide range of options.
Do I plan my blogs?
Yesterday, reader Bob M. asked me whether I have a time schedule devoted to this blog each day or does it happen at random? I told him there is both a plan and a schedule, but randomness is also a part of it. Like right now — I have no idea whether this dot sight will even work on a P1. I have tested dot sights on P1s in the past and I know the concept works, but this sight didn’t exist back then.
Dot sights do work on a P1, but I have absolutely no idea whether or not this one will. If it won’t I will have started a report that I can’t finish — except to tell you all the reasons why something doesn’t work. That sets some readers off and ruins their day, apparently, although I am always glad to find out stuff like that before I take the plunge.
When a blog blows up in my face and I have already invested several hours into it, I have to punt real fast. It isn’t frequent, but it does happen. You guys can “putter” around with a gun for several days, I have one day, and, if what I’m testing isn’t cooperating, I have to leave it and move on. Either that or you don’t get a new blog every morning.
So — why this one?
I have some other dot sights I could have installed on this pistol a long time ago. What’s so special about this sight? Well, look at it. It’s small and light. A P1 will move a scope or a large dot sight with its sharp recoil. Now, I have tamed the recoil on this particular P1, but recoil is still a consideration.
Next — I’m interested in this sight because it is a holographic type sight instead of a tube type. Nothing wrong with the tube types. I just have never tested a holographic dot sight that I can recall.
And finally, this one has different attachment bases that adapt to several firearm pistols. One of them is a Weaver-type base. The P1 has an 11mm rail that’s on the narrow side. But since Leapers also offers those 11mm-to-Weaver adaptors, I felt I could get this sight to fit on the P1. We’re going to see today.
The sight
The UTG RDM20 Reflex Micro Dot sight is a holographic red or green dot sight (your choice when purchasing but the unit is one or the other — not both) with a 23X18mm wide view lens. I’m testing a green one. The dot is 4 moa when set on the brightest of 6 intensity settings and it’s powered by a single CR2032 battery. A single switch runs the sight. The unit turns off when the switch is depressed for 3 seconds. Battery life is about 240 hours at the maximum intensity setting.
With a dot sight the light intensity levels are to compensate for the lighting conditions where you will be shooting. The lower the intensity the smaller the dot appears, and that improves precision when aiming. The trick is to get sighted in, then adjust the dot to as low (dim) as you can and still see it reliably.
The sight is adjusted for both windage and elevation with a flathead screwdriver that is provided. Both adjustments are clearly labeled as to what direction to turn and there are precise click detents! This is a nice sight!
The sight comes standard with a low-profile M1913 Picatinney base. There are other specific bases for Glocks (both small frame and large frame) and Smith & Wesson pistols, but I will be working with the M1913 base. I do own a small-frame Glock 36 in .45 ACP and I might try this sight on it later.
Two Torx screws (wrench provided) open the sight for battery installation and base swapping. I am keeping this base.
Here you see the underside of the base, with its locking key (arrow) that fits into the corresponding slot in the UTG adaptor (arrow) above. That adaptor is what makes it possible to mount this sight on a Beeman P1.
And here is the adaptor installed. As the sight base screw is tightened the adaptor will clamp onto the P1 rail.
With the adaptor installed the sight grabs onto the P1 rail tightly. Shooting will tell us if it’s going to stay put without a stop screw.
P1 damaged
The pistol I got in trade is an older one from Beeman’s San Rafael address. It was in good condition except for a mark on the sight rail where someone had tightened a scope mount stop screw. But this sight is the perfect way to hide that blemish!
The gun I got in trade has a mark from a scope stop screw…
…that the Micro Dot sight covers perfectly.
How does it look?
I thought you would like to see this gun with the sight installed next to a P1 that has no sight other than the factory sights.
Here is a P1 without a sight and one with, for comparison. The lower gun is older and came with a shiny finish, where the later one is matte.
Impressions
In the past I have mounted dot sights on P1s several times and I never liked the way they made the pistol look. They were too top heavy. This new Micro Dot is perfect for this application. And of course if it works here there are other air pistols like the Diana Chaser for me to try it on. Believe it or not, I have also been awaiting this sight to complete that report, as well.
Summary
This will be a test-within-other tests. I plan to test this P1 next and I will use the same pellets that were used before when I tested it with open sights. So there won’t be a separate report on this dot sight, but I will draw your attention to it every time I test it. I expect we will find other airguns for me to test it on, too. This stacks up to be an interesting time.
Good morning. Besides covering the blemish wouldn’t it be better putting the sight at the end of the rail so no more travel to go? By the way I use a Dampa base for a 30mm tube Red Dot on my HW45 Black Star.
Arcadian,
In the past with large dot sights I have used the front sight as a scope stop, but I’m hoping the light weight of this sight will mean that clamping pressure alone will hold it still. The P1’s recoil moves a scope forward under recoil.
B.B.
B.B.
In your first paragraph you mention some thing which has bugged me for quite sometime. In Part 8, you link to all past articles within the same blog topic. Yet, when you read part 7 and start looking for part 8, you need to either advance day to day(and hope that you did that shortly after part 7). Or go to the categories section.
Is there a way to show links for the complete series back posted to the original and subsequent parts? That is the only part of your blog that bugs me! Otherwise, it is Tony the Tiger.
-Yogi
Yogi,
That can only be done manually, and it is a hopeless effort. Pyramyd Air has tried to do it but the software doesn’t support it any other way.
B.B.
Yogi
There is a workaround to achieve following the parts forward in order. This is my procedure to accomplish this. Like you stated, the last part shows all the previous parts. Open that last part and leave it open. Then click on part one with the right mouse button and choose “open link in a New Tab”. Read part 1 and then close that tab which will then show the original tab with all the parts again. Then right click on Part 2 and again choose “open link in a New Tab”. Continue this procedure until all of the Parts have been read. Not too difficult to navigate using this method. Took me a short while to figure out how to do this but it works fine. I use the Firefox browser but it should work with any browser.
Geo
Geo,
Thanks, but that only works if you find the last part first!
Sometimes I am reading a historical blog and either the previous day or the next day catches my interest, then I am SOL.
-Y
Yogi,
Not out of luck, just copy the title without the part # and put it in the search box at the top, that should show all the blogs in that series, easy to find the last one and just open the previous ones as desired.
Mike
Yup, just do as Mike said. The search will take you to the most recent blog which will show all the previous parts. I’m sure you can figure this out.
Geo,
On an unrelated note I am running Linux Mint 18.3 with the new Firefox 64.0 and found that the extension RSSPreview 2.1 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/rsspreview/ brought back the RSS function just as it was before.
I am not sure if this will work with Windows but this may help others using Linux.
Mike
Mike In Atl,
You are a genius! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I searched for an extension that would make the RSS comments work like before but the ones I found didn’t work well at all. I remedied the problem temporarily by installing the previous version 63.0 and then turning off the automatic updates in it.
THIS is the solution I was hoping for. I updated Firefox to the latest version 64.0 and then installed the add-on from your link, and voila, it works just like nothing ever happened. I appreciate this so much, I would give you hugs if I could 🙂 I hope I can return the favor sometime.
Geo
Geo,
Glad it worked, I was going to try it on my Windows 10 box but had not gotten around to it quite yet, my only concern is security, I hope it does not open any holes for the bad guys to get in.
In looking for an answer I found an interesting bit of software that allows multiple RSS feeds to be monitored at a time, I thought it was cool, this is Linux or KDE only called Akregator, I can follow all of my silly feeds in one place.
Mike
Mike in Atl,
Thank you very much! It works!
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Glad it helped, two things that are different.
1. The time stamp is UTC, no biggie, we know what time it is.
2. You do not have to open in a new tab, just clicking the link opens a new tab.
Mike
Mike,
Yes, I noticed the time stamp was not correct for my time zone…like you said, no biggie. I actually thing they are working on fixing that feature.
Secondly, I learned something new from you again. I like that I don’t have to open a new tab each time. That is an improvement over the original FF reader. Thanks again 🙂
Geo,
Now 10:13 UTC, I saw where the developer said he would look into it but I am sure it is a low priority.
You are welcome again, gifts are always welcome. LOL
B.B.,
Nice looking sight. I was looking into these recently when considering the Chaser rifle. The MOA rating varies quite a bit from what saw when looking at options.
Q: 4 MOA means it covers 4″ of target at 100 yards if I recall? Less so at nearer yardages? I would guess that smaller MOA is better?, and from what I have seen, smaller cost more. Intensity adjustment seems like a must have.
Also, there is reflex sights that are open and also dots that are open and enclosed. (I am not sure of the difference.) I have looked through and shot with one like this, but it had 4 reticle choices and had both the red/green choice within the same sight. That appealed the most to me. Open would be lighter, but more prone to dust buildup as opposed to something enclosed. Keeping an open covered while not in use would seem to be a good thing. I guess that I still need to study the topic more.
Good Day to one and all,…… Chris
Chris,
Four MOA is pretty much that standard for all dot sights on high intensity.
1. The dot gets smaller as the light dims.
2. A handgunner can’t hold steady enough to benefit from much less sight.
B.B.
B.B.
I cannot agree with you here. The Romeo 1 sight from Sig-Sauer is advertised as a 2MOA dot. For most shooters the difference would not matter or even be noticed.
Gerald
BB
Looking forward to your opinion on this sight. I like dot sights on pistols but like you said tube types can be heavy especially combined with a heavy pistol.
From what I have read you are supposed use these with both eyes open so the body of the sight almost gets ignored by your brain and disappears from view. A lot of tube type have a lot sticking out and obscure your view of the target area like the battery compartment, weaver rails, adjuster knobs and even fixed open sights on top. 30mm tubes may offer a better view through them but are really way to big for a pistol in my opinion.
I use them on rifles with one eye like a regular scope sometimes. The larger reflex dot appear to be too fragile and require extra handling care. These micro-dots are exactly what I think I should get.
A very small crisp sharp bright dot with a adjustable intensity is very desirable. Fuzzy dots and reticles are annoying especially after you have seen a good dot. You get what you pay for.
Optional reticles are nice and evidently have tactical and target uses but I guess it’s just a personal choice for airgunners.
Perhaps we can get some comments on those uses.
By the way is that black section with the rear sight on the SIG M17 supposed to be removable for a dot sight platform installation and is it functional ?
Bob M
Bob,
That large black section on the M17 firearm is there for a reason and I think it might come off. I don’t think the pellet pistol’s rear sight removes.
B.B.
BB
Just did a quick check and the plate is removable on the firearm to install a mount plate for their Romeo1 reflex sight. I need to check on the pellet gun fit. There are two screws inside the slide and they probably hold the part on but will it work for the sight platform? Only Sig knows so far.
Bob M
BB
The UTG adapter does have a stop screw. Look at the top blue arrow and to the right. A set screw is suppose to go in that threaded hole. Matter of fact it looks like your gun may of wore on of these adapters. It looks like the set screw I’m talking about would match up with your guns mark.
And I like that the dot sight has detents on the elevation and windage adjustment.
GF1,
Stop screws only work when there is a hole for them. The P1 doesn’t have one, which is why the top of the rail is messed up.
The front sight works fine for this.
B.B.
BB
If you notice that set screw is off center. It will not line up with the stop hole on most guns. The stop holes are in the center. Except for the FWB 300’s. They have a groove machined across the dovetail.
And yes those UTG adapters do hold in place when using the set screws as extra securing points. Look at how they are positioned and where they hit. That design helps them hold.
I found if I put the set screw on the left on my front scope ring and on the right on my rear scope ring they do a very good job of not letting the scope move.
You have to try it. You will see what I mean.
B.B.
Your regular proofreader seems to be absent lately. Hope he is well.
Second paragraph 20177 s/b 2017?
Blessings on your day,
Dan
Dan,
My keyboard has a habit of doubling the 7.
Thanks,
B.B.
BB I never like buying any dot site or any other that works with a battery without knowing how many hours the battery is good for. do you happen to know
Mildot52,
“The UTG RDM20 Reflex Micro Dot sight is a holographic red or green dot sight (your choice when purchasing but the unit is one or the other — not both) with a 23X18mm wide view lens. I’m testing a green one. The dot is 4 moa when set on the brightest of 6 intensity settings and it’s powered by a single CR2032 battery. A single switch runs the sight. The unit turns off when the switch is depressed for 3 seconds. Battery life is about 240 hours at the maximum intensity setting.”
B.B.
B.B.,
So,.. we have a “The UTG RDM20 Reflex Micro Dot sight is a holographic red or green dot sight”.
So we have a reflex (and) a micro dot (and) a holographic sight all rolled into one. Thus the reason for my confusion. Perhaps you have explained it all before?,…. maybe several times? I do remember you reviewing one that could change reticles and you said that it needed to be re-sighted each time that the reticle choice was changed.
Like I said, I need to research more. Pro’s, con’s, best bang for the buck are my main concerns. And, are (any) of them any better than a fine line mil-dot scope? Less weight sure. But otherwise? Quicker target acquisition seems to be the main benefit.
I do not paying a bit more for something,… but first I have to know what I want and then be able to decipher the data/lingo given with a particular product description. Lighter is good, but precision is better.
Come to think about it,…. why is there no holographic mil-dot? It seems that we have only dots and very simple reticle variations to choose from.
Chris
B.B.,
You wrote that sometimes “something doesn’t work. That sets some readers off and ruins their day, apparently.”
I must admit I do not understand that reaction. Everyone prefers it when things work out well, but the reality is they often do not. And I have always felt that when something goes wrong or if I make a mistake, I learn far more than if everything went perfectly. People learn more from failures than they do from successes. And in addition to fun, reading this blog is about learning things. We learn from your experiences, so if something goes wrong for you, we learn from that.
My apologies if that came off as a mini-rant. I have had only half a cup of coffee so far this morning.
Michael
Michael,
Amen. Agree completely.
Walt
Michael,
Could not agree more. I am not sure what B.B. is referring to when he says that when “something doesn’t work”, it sets some readers off and ruins their day, apparently. I have to say I have never seen that attitude here in the blog anyway. I believe I speak for others when I say that we just appreciate, and are grateful for the work B.B. does. Stuff happens.
B.B.
I’d like to set up my FWB 603 for snipping and plinking and this RDM20 looks to be ideal. I couldn’t find a link in the text and a search of the PA site didn’t find one. Are these sights available yet?
Hank
Hank,
They are available, but not from Pyramyd Air at this time.
B.B.
Dang, hope this sight works well on the P1. I may be crazy, but a .25 caliber barrel might also be sweet for the extra pa-ting on spinners and such. The P1 sometimes seems hefty to me in the .177, but I enjoy it’s great trigger and awesome reliability, It has never failed in 35yrs, just one mainspring that didnt need changing. It really is made well for a sporter. Have a nice day, R
To readers with astigmatism
Some of these optics are more blurry than others if you have astigmatism. If you have a blurry dot sight you otherwise like try looking through an aperture attached to glasses.
Deck
Deck,
I went to get new glasses yeasterday and Doc got interested in setting up a pair of shooting glasses for me. We spent an hour adjusting my prescription most of it on the correction for my astigmatism. I wanted to get it the best we could. I wish I had a dot sight with me. I will take one when I go the next time. Then we went outside and he adjusred the power till I could see at arms length and at 25 yards. I can’t wait till I get the glasses to see how they work.
Right now I see two dots. I dont know if the one on the right or left is the one I should be using, maybe neither is correct. I have been using the one on the right. I will try using my left eye it also has less astigmatism than the right.
He said I should be shooting left handed all the time as I am very left eye dominate. Looks like I may be shooting left handed most of the time.
Don old eyes
Benji-Don
Your Doc is interested and thats a plus. Hoping the glasses solve any and all problems. In my opinion you can train yourself to shoot with either eye but BB may chime in if he has a different view.
Deck
Deck,
Shoot with either hand? Yes, I agree. It’s not easy, but it is possible.
B.B.
B.B.,
I am a bit ambidextrus but did not realize how left eye dominant I am. This is going to be an adventure I hope work out well.
Don
Deck,
The glasses will be a compromise. I think they will really help. I shoot pistols left handed part of the time now so that is not a major broblem for me. I also shoot a rifle left handed when hunting if the situation demands it.
I am going to practice left handed after I get the new glasses and report back. I was lucky Doc took an interest in my shooting glasses. That is not thr norm from my experience.
One thing that may help is, I can shoot left handed much easier with booth eyes open. When I shoot right handed I need to squint my left eye to get the right eye to pick up the target.
Don
Benji-Don
I’m thinking you are already trained to shoot from the left and right. You likely will score better with glasses that bring the front sight into best focus. I shoot better with both eyes open and betting you will prefer the left handed position. Looking forward to hearing more.
Deck
Michael—–I have learned so much from my mistakes, that I am going to make a lot more ! !—-Ed
B.B.,
Off topic, but hopefully of interest: The Dec. issue of National Defense (industry publication) has an article on military small arms training. Specifically, it references a system (Meggitt’s ETS II) that interposes between the usual “dry-fire” and range phases. “It augments their training by using compressed air and simulated firearms in a virtual environment. The system consists of large screens, a projector, and a tethered rifle.”
Sounds like a high-tech version of shooting the red star at the carnival midway.
Thanks for all you do!
Walt
Walt
BB,
I too have some interest in this sight. I have never had much luck with this type before, though they were likely of much cheaper quality. We shall see what you think of it.
BB,
Can you do some checks on the roundness and sharpness of the dot? I have tried a few of these sights and have found many with the dot out of round or indistinct. This might just have been the sights I have tried or the quality (price) of said sights.
The one with the Beeman P17 kit was particularly terrible and was removed to the parts bin rather quickly.
Thanks,
Silver Eagle
Silver Eagle,
I will try to look at it, but it’s hard to tell when a bright light is or isn’t perfectly round. Most people think our sun is very round, but it isn’t.
B.B.
Silver Eagle,
Woopps! Old BB missed that one! Apparently our sun is the roundest natural object known. If it were the size of a beach ball, the difference in roundness would be less than the thickness of a human hair.
Oh, well.
B.B.
Just thought I would mention if anyone is interested.
The .25 caliber Gauntlet is now in stock at Pyramyd Air.
And thought I would mention. The .25 Gauntlets bottle is regulated at 1900 psi and it’s making 900 fps like the .22 Gauntlet that’s regulated at 1200 psi. At least it looks like they did thier homework to try to keep the velocity up. I think it’s going to be a shooter.
Another thing I noticed is the .25 caliber now has a barrel band. I haven’t checked yet to see if it still allows the barrel to float like the Marauder’s do. But thought it was interesting to see that the .25 does and the .177 and .22 Gauntlet don’t have the barrel band.
GF1,
That is interesting, here is the image from Pyramyd Air and it does look like daylight all around the barrel. More of a stabilizer against barrel bumps than an actual barrel band.
Mike
Mike
Yep same as the Marauder barrel bands.
Think I’m going to have to get one of the .25 Gauntlets. If it shoots like my .177 Gauntlet it will be a winner.
GF1,
Looking again, it almost looks like there is something holding tight to the shroud, rubber grommet? Anyway looks like a good upgrade for the .177 and .22 as well.
Mike
Mike
Hard to tell in the picture now that I looked closer at it.
But yep good up grade. And maybe the newer .177 and .22 Gauntlets will have it also.
GF1,
Guess the question is if the barrel band will just drop into an existing Guantlet or if the stock needs to be replaced or modded for it to fit.
Mike
Mike
Wish I had one so I could tell you right now.
And my biggest thing with this is could I just order the barrel band for the .25 Gauntlet.
If it was Crosman it would b a yes. Umarex operates different then Crosman. Definitely like my .177 Gauntlet. And will probably get a .25 Gauntlet. But wish Umarex would kick up thier public relations if you know what I mean.
GF1,
If they are paying attention I am sure they will come out with aftermarket parts for the tinkerers among us, while not a huge market it would go a long way in the public relations arena and that will lead to more overall sales.
Just my opinion.
Mike
Mike
I agree.
The support band seems to be too close to the breech to be of much help. There is still a lot of barrel sticking out unsupported. I guess it’s better than nothing though.
Geo
I think I would rather have the barrel band then not.
Well that depends on if it affects accuracy.
Tom, I just ordered the UTG Micro Dot and UTG 11mm (3/8″) Dovetail to Weaver Adapter. Thanks so much for pointing out the adapter part. I never knew this existed and makes mounting on the P1 much more elegant than a Picatinny adapter that sits much too high.
Lysander,
Coincidently, that is what I am testing today for tomorrow’s report.
B.B.