Home Blog  
Education / Training What a difference a stock makes: Part Four

What a difference a stock makes: Part Four

HW-30S and old stock
The HW 30S over the old-style HW 30 stock.

What BB did
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

This report covers:

  • Roamin Greco
  • The test
  • First group
  • Second group — my way
  • Group three
  • Group four
  • Discussion
  • Group five
  • One final point
  • Summary

If I could put subtitles in this blog today’s would be, “I did it my way.” Because that’s what happened. This is a follow-on report about shooting the HW 30S rifle offhand at 10 meters.

Roamin Greco

In the comments to Part 3 reader Roamin Greco showed us his 10-meter target with two five-shot groups at 10 yards and a 3-shot sight-in group shot from the bench. Here is what he said.

Not too bad. Check out the lower left bull. At least I feel better about contributing some modest amount of shooting advice (or at least sharing my experience). I should practice off hand more often. Now where did I put that carton of eggs?

Roamin Greco
Roamin Greco’s target shows three exemplary groups shot offhand at 10 meters.

Reader BrummieMick said, “Apologies for chipping in again with not very helpful comments.
From my years spent unsuccessfully trying to improve my scores; can I please make the following observations.
Today’s significant technique tweak, most likely won’t be so significant tomorrow.
If using the surprised by the gun firing method, you are supposed to be surprised when the gun is pointing where you want to shoot.
Squeezing does not mean you have to be surprised when the gun fires.
Finding what is best for you is a long road.
Tight groups everyone.”

I read that as him saying I might have done it once, but could I do it again? And yes, he was right. I did not do as well the second time. I did BETTER. In fact… Well, just read what happened.

The test

All of the groups and targets today were shot with the .177-caliber HW 30S rifle shooting the JSB Exact Heavy pellet. The distance was 10 meters. All shots were offhand, but I did lean against a chair. I’ll say more about that as we go. The aim point for all shots was 6 o’clock on the bullseye.

First group

I shot the first group while leaning against the back of the chair. It was higher than my waist and that wasn’t good. I wobbled more than I should. Five pellets went into 1.596 inches at 10 meters All shots are below the bullseye.

HW 30 group 1
The first group was nothing to be proud of. Five shots went into 1.596-inches between centers.

Second group — my way

Enough of the silliness! On the second group I held the front sight on the 6 o’clock point of the bullseye and held the butt firmly into my shoulder with the forearm cupped lightly in the palm of my off hand. My off hand was way out on the stock’s cocking slot which seemed to be the most stable.

I also turned the chair so my leg pressed against the chair arm at mid-thigh. I did touch the side of the chair back a little but the repositioning of the leg did the most good.

Group two measures 1.575-inches between centers at 10 meters — BUT — four of those five shots are in 0.613-inches at 10 meters. And the one shot that’s low and left, shot number 4, is a called pull. Apparently my way works. I have more to say about that in a bit but for now let’s move on.

HW 30 group 2
When I did things my way I put 4 into 0.613–inches at 10 meters. There is a flier, but I called it.

The fact that I was able to call a flier doesn’t make that pellet hole anything but what it is — a miss. However, it does mean that I can see where the sights are when I shoot my way.

Hunting Guide

Group three

I was very impressed with Roamin Greco’s shooting and I wanted to emulate it. Someone said to slowly lower the barrel until the tip of the front sight post just passed the 6 o’clock spot on the bullseye, so I tried that next. Five shots went into a vertical group that measures 1.712-inches between centers. Nope! Not for me. This procedure might work for someone, but it’s not the way I should do it.

HW 30 group 3
When I tried a method suggested by someone else I shot this vertical 1.712-inch group at 10 meters.

Group four

The final group I shot using someone else’s method was group four. This was the method where you hold the rifle like a 10-meter target rifle. I held the forearm on the tips of my off hand fingers, located back by the triggerguard. Following this method I put five pellets into 1.559-inches at 10 meters. Four of the shots are closer together but there were no called pulls here.

HW 30 group 4
When I shot the HW 30S like a 10-meter target rifle I put five pellets into a 1.559-inch group at 10 meters.

Discussion

Okay, I have tried it other people’s ways and I have tried it my way. Clearly my way works best for me. However, one reader thought that because I only shot one good group that way in Part 3, perhaps I just got lucky. So once again I will shoot a group following my personal preference.

Group five

For the last group of the day I did everything my way. I held the butt tight into my shoulder and rested the forearm lightly on the palm of my off hand, way out at the end of the stock. I waited until the front sight was where I wanted it and then deliberately pulled the trigger. This time five pellets went into 0.706-inches at 10 meters. Four of those shots are in 0.205-inches. Roamin Greco didn’t give his group sizes, but I think I’m pretty close with this one!

HW 30 group 5
To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee, “Now, that’s a group!” Five in 0.706-inches with 4 in 0.205-inches at 10 meters, shot offhand.

See why I said my way works for me? This was my last group of the session and it is also my best. I won’t be able to shoot this well all the time but as I practice with this rifle I will become more and more accustomed to it and my average group size should decrease.

I’m still not done with this rifle. I will be tuning and testing the HW-50S rifle to see how it compares with this one. One thing I already suspect is I’ll need a new stock for that one because it has the same goofy new-style stock that came on this one.

One final point

Remember where I said my aim point is? It’s 6 o’clock on the bullseye. When I shot my way the pellets went there — not to the center of the bull. Look at the second and fifth bulls.

Summary

I am having a ball with this HW 30S rifle. I have to admit I didn’t care that much for it at the end of the 14-part test, but now that I have the right stock on the rifle with a perfect tune and a gem of a trigger, I like it!

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

60 thoughts on “What a difference a stock makes: Part Four”

  1. B.B.

    I have an older style HW 50 stock if you want to use it!

    Glad you improved “your way”, now get ride of the darn chair. Otherwise you are chair dependant!

    -Y

  2. B.B.,

    The chair needs to go as Yogi points out because you really can’t carry a chair around with you when pesting. You have improved and i’d estimate your probable pesting success rate at 10-12 yards as 2:5. Keep at it and you will grow that ratio and sooner than later be able to grow your distance as well.
    As you well know shooting is 90% a mind game and self doubt is to be banished.
    Tom you have got the trend going in the right direction.

    shootski

    Qapla: from the Old Klingon

  3. B.B. nice shooting! Before you take up Yogi on his generous offer, try out the HW50 with the more modern stock. I recall reader Hihihi had an HW30S and an HW 50, both with the modern stock, and on one his eye was below the sights and with the other his sights lined up perfectly.

    Set up that chair within 10 yards of the bird feeder and tally ho!

  4. BB,
    I’m glad things are looking up for you…now that you have the right stock!
    I only hope that Weihrauch reads this set of reports and goes back to the old “better” stock.
    (Shakespearian aside to Weihrauch:
    “And yes, I know it’s better because I have one. I love your rifles; I’ve owned 3 of them so far.
    But all of them have the old, much better, stocks…PLEASE, bring them back!
    Or at least make them an option; thank you. =>)
    It will be interesting to see how the HW 50S with new 7.5 fpe kit stacks up…once it gets a “better” stock, LOL! 🙂
    Blessings to you,
    dave

    • While they are at it, an option for a stock with some adjustability for the HW 30S would be very helpful when introducing folks to the sport. Especially youth that can handle the cocking effort needed. Then you could have a stock that can be fitted to them from the get go. Can you imagine a new airgunner going through all this just to shoot what is aimed at?

    • Dave,

      The magic is with the old style stock AND shooting “his way” both. :^) I think comfort, familiarity and being true to himself had a lot to do with it.

      And because I cannot resist quoting some Shakespeare, as Polonius told Laertes in Hamlet, “To thine own self be true, / For then thou canst not be false to any man.”

      Michael

      • Michael, great stuff! My wife bought me a set (she saw online) of the complete works of Shakespeare, all in separate books (about 5″ wide by 6-3/4″ tall, with the thickness varying by the length of the play).
        My copy of Hamlet is marked as being published in 1885 by Harper Brothers.
        All the books are from the 1880s. What’s really interesting is that, besides the background and the play itself, each book has notes and a glossary in the back to explain the King James English, which had already changed a lot by the 1880s, not to mention today, LOL!
        Reading the King James Bible helps somewhat; yet there are many nuances and turns of phrase that aren’t in the Bible; it took me a while to get comfy reading Shakespeare’s original English…excellent, though. 🙂

    • While they’re at it, I’d appreciate it if the LOP was sized for someone with more normal length arm and fingers. They can include an extra plastic spacer or two in the box for adjustment.

      I hold my HW30S (old style stock) similar to if it was a straight stock. I’m just not reaching that trigger if I use the pistol grip (I know about the kits that set the trigger back, but I need a larger adjustment than even that offers)

      Nathan

      • Nathan, I hear you; I am fortunate (I suppose) in that I have very long fingers; I just tested it; I can hold the pistol grip of the old-style stock, and still reach the trigger with the first joint of my trigger finger…
        …not that I do; I use the pad of my finger…still, my fingers may be a bit too long. 🙂

  5. BB,
    The joys of using a well-adjusted, good-fitting spring piston pellet rifle, with iron sights, no less! The kind of machine that is perfect for a quick shot at a pest, or a leisurely (and habit forming) way to spend time. Keep up your work at offhand position and there won’t be a safe pest in the neighborhood! (except for bears, I remember that you mentioned bears)
    I have a question that is somewhat off topic, if you & the other readers will be so kind as to indulge me:
    I recently acquired a Diana model 6 (GS?), it has a barrel weight and 11mm scope rail, but the manufacture date is 10 70 and I didn’t think that they made them that early. I re-sealed it (many thanks to “another airgun blog”) but really would like to put “iron” sights on it. Where do I look to obtain a set of sights for it? Or should I just move it on and look for another model 6? (good luck with that as I’ve spent years finding this one)
    Thank you for any help or advice that you can give me.
    Bill

    • billj,
      Nice pistol. I did not even know it existed. I can see where my 5G came from. Then I thought, holy cow, I have another magnum pistol I totally forgot about someplace. A Browning 800 Express. It has a built-in shock absorbing mechanism.
      When I have to evacuate for wildfires, I just toss all my airguns in boxes and load up my truck.
      A lot of stuff never gets unpacked when I return. Saves time when I have to do it again and eventually I forget about them. Especially if it was thrown in with other stuff. Project number 359, Find it!

      • Bob M,

        You need a climate controlled container Gun Room!
        Either already on wheels or with a fast way to slide it onto a flatbed low boy utility trailer.

        shootski

        • Shootski;
          You are not kidding. I really have a room full of stuff and deciding what to take, or leave behind, when you evacuate will make you sick. You can’t take it all, and the thought of having 20 burned out vehicles, 7 motorcycles and two tractors, not to mention the garage and home burned to the ground will keep you ill till it’s all past.
          My faith in the fire department is growing. They throw everything they have at the smallest brush fire now. And we have had 4 here already in SoCal. 3 close by.

          Counted about 15 fire trucks fighting a small roadside fire. No more waiting for it to get to a convenient location to fight it. Access trails were grown over!
          .
          I need an out-of-town storage facility or re-side my garage and home with stone, cement board and a metal roofing… And a huge steel storage building.

    • billj,

      Do not under any circumstances get rid of that pistol! You will regret it!

      With patience, you will find another with open sights. I bought a Beeman 800/Diana 6G in almost new condition this past October for $60. It needed to be resealed, but most do. I did pay a pretty penny to have it resealed. I wish I had checked out that site you speak of.

    • I have the same gun, it is on the to do list for resealing. Did you need a spring compressor for it? The front sight on those is a special one that protects your hand when cocking it. The rear sight is I think a fairly standard Diana rear sight. Neither are easy to find. I’ll keep an eye out.

      • Roamin,
        Yes, I did need to use a spring compressor. If you look carefully at the design, it is an elegantly simple one. The drawbacks consist of: more parts that the average springer, small parts and fine threads on some of the parts. If you work carefully and don’t try to force anything, it should go well. (read the comments in the “another airgun blog” series)
        I’ve put around 100 shots through mine and it still seems to be working fine.
        Bill

        • Thanks, Bill. I am looking to build one and have to remember to make it for pistols as well as rifles. I have a very similar Winchester 363 with the open sights that needs attention as well as an FWB 124…..

    • billj,

      Looked up your Dianawerk in the BlueBook of Airguns.
      The 6GS with 7″ barrel (professional Target) model has consistently held the second most costly model regardless of condition; only the 6M beats it by a small percentage. The BB of A reports importation (USA) was discontinued in 1995. It is said to be equipped with a factory scope and scope rail, muzzle weight, plastic or wooden palm rest grip.

      Maybe: https://www.omps2.it/en/766-mod-6g-t01

      shootski

      • shootski,

        That is my Beeman 800! Thanks!

        I wish they had some sight inserts. I do think I know where to find a perlkorn / pointed insert. I hate those big, blocky sights almost as much as I hate glowy thingy sights.

  6. BB,

    As the Sinatra song goes, “I DID IT MY WAY!”

    Unfortunately, like Yogi says, you will need to learn to do such without the chair. If you have something to lean against at the time, that is great. You cannot depend on that though.

    Keep at it. Like the 10M pistol, you’ll get the hang of it.

  7. Going to try shooting Dirty Thirty offhand using your method of bracing the stock – not too hard – against the body, light touch on the forearm. So far the “artillery” hold has been ok during pest control safaris but FM is always willing to find new and better ways of doing things. The JSB Match Diabolo Exact Heavy pellets seem to work best for pesting purposes.

  8. For an experienced shooter this good technique comfort is important. If you are not comfortable then you are not going to shoot well. I think that is what we are seeing here and what works for one shooter may or may not work well for another shooter. I own, have owned, and have shot a lot of 10 meter air rifles all of them are capable of single hole accuracy at 10 meters however some I have shoot significantly better than others. I think it comes down to comfort and fit.

  9. I am loving the HW30s series as your pester. Mine is one of, if not my favorite, air guns that I own. I am going to try some 10m offhand targets this weekend. Mine has a Bug Buster mounted on it and it is not coming off as it is just a perfect combo. I usually shoot bench, but am wanting to work on my offhand so this 30s is my tool for it as well.

  10. *** OFF TOPIC – HEALTH AND SAFETY ***

    https://youtu.be/UHPZerrk3YY

    Those of us that shoot PCPs deal with HPA. HPA stores a lot of energy and should be handled properly and treated with the appropriate respect.

    I think the 15 minute video (link above) is well worth watching for anyone that works with or is in proximity to HPA tanks of PCP airguns.

    Happy Friday all!
    Hank

    • Vana2,

      Click Bate ALERT!

      Sorry Hank this guy has BIG information accuracy issues that could be fixed if he were to get some education from actual industry sources such as the Compressed Gas Association: https://www.cganet.com/
      He is blowing far too much blue smoke!
      HELIUM does not burn.
      I have no issue if he doesn’t fill his 4,500 psi cylinder all the way but that IS the safe Working Pressure. The cylinders are tested to FAILURE at:
      “(b) Burst Test: The minimum required burst pressure is
      3.4 times the marked service pressure marked on the
      cylinder. A minimum of three cylinders must be
      hydrostatically tested in accordance with the
      following:”
      They fill them at a 200psi per second fill rate! Basically the threads for the valve are tested to SIX (6) times the cylinder maximum pressure…and generally they give them acidic baths hit them with metal baseball bats and whatever else they could think of. The little condensation that he worries about bringing it in from the cold car just isn’t the issue to worry about.
      I wish he knew that there is an annual visual inspection required by a certified individual a little more certain that the cylinder needs to be professionally run through a hydrostatic and internal inspection every five years (5) by a certified testing facility.
      I doubt that he has a clue that the Carbon Fiber cylinders are built to the same standards as the SCBA tanks that firefighters wear into burning buildings, ships, and aircraft at temperatures that melt cars.
      There are far better and more informative ways to spend 14 to 15 minutes of your time. The Hollywood film scenes he uses and the U Tube “testing” is simply over the top.

      shootski

      PS: THIS IS A GOOD U TUBE SOURCE: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFWTcgjhl8&feature=youtu.be

      • Agreed shootski, he’s off on some of the details and isn’t knowledgeable on industry testing and requirements but the general principles he talks about make sense to me.

        Take proper care around HPA…
        – Have internal inspections done as required.
        – Check them for external damage (mechanical damage, bulges/blistering)
        – Check the hoses and fittings.
        – Don’t overfill.
        – Be aware of extreme temperatures.
        – Make sure your air is dry.
        – Use only air (not welding gasses).
        – Be prepared for potential problems.

        Think he had a tank (thread) failure recently that prompted him to post the video. Yeah, his film clips (from Jaws) are over dramatic but he did say so as well.

        My reason for linking to the video is to get people to be a bit more aware/respectful of HPA. Couple of weeks ago a guy I know stopped by and asked if I could fill his SCUBA tank again. I took one look and refused – the tank was seriously damaged from bouncing around in the back of his truck for weeks. I explained the danger and suggested the he have the tank inspected. Found out later that the dive-shop confiscated the tank.

        HPA is statistically safe but there have been failures, I just like to bias things to my advantage. Like my car, I’ll do a walk-around before getting in, lights, tire pressure and fluid levels are checked regularly… I might be a bit anal about such things 😉

        Cheers!

    • Hank,
      A very interesting video about the potential dangers of HPA.
      It reminded me of the first company I worked for in Maine; we made a lot of microwave components, but our main product was transmission lines, both waveguide and coaxial [rigid copper] line.
      On our 3-1/8″ coaxial line, the outer jacket was always pressure tested to hold 85 psi.
      The pic below shows a 1-foot piece, but imagine a 10-footer (our standard product).
      It’s got 85 psi in it, but then the tech forgets to release the air before taking off the end cap!
      He never finished getting the 6th bolt out (of the threaded flange).
      He was using an air wrench, standing in front of the cap; the 6th bolt stripped the last few threads.
      The cap became a missile that hit him in the chest!
      He got banged up, and cracked some ribs…and this was just with 85 psi…yet a large volume!
      So yes, I could definitely see the danger with HPA if not handled correctly.
      Cheers,
      Dave

  11. Vana 2,

    Hank i have absolutely no problem with anyone using Very/Ultra High Pressure Air. I am as well. We just need to start from an accurate knowledge base. His idea of underfilling is seemingly not based on actual knowledge but the apparent scare he got if his valve/cylinder threads failed. The question in my mind is why did they fail? Is there some detail that he has left out of that story. We all know that doctors think we patients always lie to them….
    Your car walk-around is something i do to my boat(s), vehicles, and any airplanes if fly get a through Preflight Inspection as well. The car and boat inspections have turned up little things mostly but the careful Preflights have probably saved my life any number of times.
    I congratulate the guy for wearing safety glasses and ear protection when doing fills but he should actually have a fill cell to put cylinder into that will contain and redirect any gas blast toward cleared area.
    I find the lack of that containment cell requirement at airgun shoots to be a strong indicator that the entire event is probably not being run to Best Practices standards. It only takes one death or serious injury to bring the uninformed Keepers down on our events with all maner of regulation or outright bans.

    For those thinking about PCPs; the fill paraphernalia are safe when purchased from proven reliable and knowledgeable sources. The next step in the safe handling is in you the users hands. You need to know the system(s) measures and techniques to keep you safe.
    If you don’t know ask a reliable source. As always and in most things there is only one dumb question and that is the question that wasn’t asked before the incident/accident happened.

    Hank you are prone to do it the right way by nature. I doubt you would cross thread a bottle, or perhaps over torque it, or worse still not run it in all the way. Threads typically don’t fail unless they are abused.
    I cringed evey time he handled his cylinder with the QD hose attached!

    Happy weekend,
    I hope you aren’t dealing with the smoke. It has not been a pleasant few weeks with our newest Canadian Import. I prefer the Canadian wood imports to have solid grain not be in its VOC form! :^P

    shootski

    • Smoke has been a problem shootski, never seen it like this before.

      Outdoor activities are planned according to the air quality forecast 🙁

      The good news is that I’m getting a lot of little projects done and my 10 meter airguns are happy with all the extra attention they have been getting 🙂

      It may be wierd but I do pre-use inspection of all of my equipment/tools and have little mantras that I follow for my routines. Learning something new usually involves creating a flow chart of some description. My son used to call them “spider drawings” because the connecting lines looked like a web.

      …I’ll try to keep the Canadian smoke north of the border.

      Hank

      • Vana2,

        Hank whatever you are doing WORKED! After a few weeks of sub 2-5 miles visibility (IFR-MVFR) it was getting old. Not to mention the smell whenever it mixed down to the surface.
        Visibilities are over 10 statute miles once more.
        Keep up doing whatever it is, please!
        Now if you could only do something about the 76° Dew Points, that makes for some really ZAFTIG (juicy ) hot air. I have vapor trails behind my projectiles!

        shootski

  12. Regarding new vs old stocks I now know that both my HW30s and HW50s have the old stocks thanks to this report series. Since I no longer do as much offhand shooting fit isn’t as important to me as it once was. But grans and hopefully beyond will someday inherit these fine air rifles and will likely be pleased with the way these stocks shoulder.

    Deck

  13. OFF TOPIC

    Team – Need Help
    I recently purchased a Crosman 760 variable pump air rifle and fell in love with shooting darts in my garage. The gun shoots darts pretty decent at 4-5 meters but what I really want is a low power break barrel air gun. I was looking at the Diana 2 Forty ( under 100 USD) and it looks like it would work. Need it to be accurate to 5 meters. Just wondering if anyone has any experience or recommendations.

    Kind Regards

    JDA001

    • JDA001, I would suggest you repost your request on Monday morning.

      I am no expert at shooting darts, but I do know that they will likely wreck any rifling that is in a barrel, so whatever gun you use would probably end up being for darts only. That’s what the 760 is a winner, because it’s a smoothbore. If I were you, I would look into a 240 or even a vintage 23. I think Diana used to make some of their vintage spring piston guns with smoothbores. The other alternative might be a single pump pneumatic. Daisy made a few. I would also search this blog for “darts.” If the search box doesn’t get you enough info, do an advanced Google search focused only on this blog’s website.
      But do ask again on Monday morning and you will likely get more answers. Good luck.

      • Roamin Greco

        Thank You for the reply. I did as suggested and reviewed the site for DART and appreciate the information. I will research the Daisy offering.. I do have my heart set on a modern low FPS wood stock break barrel. The vintage Diana smooth barrels appear to be too collectible. I did find an Umarex Perfecta 32 break barrel air gun that is sold in Europe with darts and board. Items are not currently available on the Umarex USA website.

        Kind Regards

        JDA001

    • jda001,

      What he said. Do not screw up the rifling of an airgun by shooting darts through it. The Diana 240 is a superb low powered air rifle with PELLETS! That price is real nice also.

      I do not know what your budget is, but if you would like a dart shooting air pistol, the Webley Junior will fit the bill quite nicely. Almost all of them are smoothbore and were meant to shoot darts. They are not cheap though.

      • RidgerRunner

        Appreciate the information. I have the pistol covered. Right now, I’m using a DX 17 airgun for darts. Only good for 2-3 meters but a blast with 5 inch square adhesive cork coasters and 3 inch shoot and see targets, I paste the coasters on 12 by 8 inch heavy cardboard.

        Kind Regards

        JDA001

    • jda001,

      It has been some time since I shot darts with airguns so do some searching to see if what i write is still true.
      Manty airgun dart bodies are made of plastic or from mild steel. Airgun barrels can be found made in brass or typically some type of mild steel; easier to machine, drill, hone, and rifle. Don’t use in rifled brass barrels (my opinion) they wear faster even with the hard Lead alloy pellets.
      IF you find a dart that fits the Lands (smallest diameter) of a rifles bore it will probably not wear out faster than shooting harder Lead projectiles such as the Crosman Premier Pellets. Most of the bore riding and sealing (Obturation) is done by the feathers.
      I believe the commonly held belief of NOT shooting darts in rifled barrels comes from a time when most airguns in the USA had brass barrels.
      Keep the darts clean and perhaps depending on design VERY lightly lubricated. Shoot them into a Bristol Board (regular dart board) to save the points with no more than soft wire outlines if any.

      shootski

      PS: They don’t hunt well at all; pellets, round ball, and bullets (slugs) are far better hunting projectiles.

      • Shootski

        Thank You for the in depth information. My goal is to do 5 meter target work and keep 10 shots ( one at a time) within an one inch circle. I was looking for a wooden break barrel and the Diana 2 Forty looks like a potential modern low cost option. Your comments have me thinking.

        If rifled barrels are not really an issue with a dedicated dart air gun ,would a Seneca Dragonfly .177 be considered the gold standard since it would be zero recoil and power variable. Could potentially extend one inch goal to 7-8 accurate meters. Don’t think more than 1-2 pumps would be needed with zero stress on the air gun. Pyramyd appears to have refurbished on sale this week

        Kind Regards

        JDA001

        • JDA001,

          Take a look at this: /search-results-ext?keyword=Darts
          Check out the REVIEWS especially the comments about the darts and rifled barrels…LOL!
          Even PA says fore smoothbore on their Darts and then sells Kits with airguns that have rifled barrels…
          any more confusing and they won’t sell many more!

          Do notice the DISPERSION on the dartboards. I don’t remember them being that bad at grouping but then maybe they are playing a dart game….

          Just saying…1″ accuracy might not happen unless you find a better built dart.

          shootski

          • Shootski

            Thanks for the follow up. I think that’s why I’m confused. I even see darts being used and sold in CO2 Revolvers on other airgun sites

            I think I may have found the Holy Grail of darts,at least for break barrels. Please google Kvintor .177 Darts. I use these in a very cheap DX 17 airgun and manage to keep 10 shots (3 meters) in a three inch shoot and see target. DX 17 is like the Marksman 1018, just a bit better built.

            JDA001

  14. I think it’s important to remember that there is no one “right” way to shoot a gun. What works for one person may not work for another. The most important thing is to find a technique that you are comfortable with and that allows you to shoot accurately.

Leave a Comment

Buy With Confidence

  • Free Shipping

    Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

    Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

    View Shipping Info

  • Shipping Time Frame

    We work hard to get all orders placed by 12 pm EST out the door within 24 hours on weekdays because we know how excited you are to receive your order. Weekends and holiday shipping times will vary.

    During busy holidays, we step our efforts to ship all orders as fast as possible, but you may experience an additional 1-2 day delay before your order ships. This may also happen if you change your order during processing.

    View Shipping Times

  • Shipping Restrictions

    It's important to know that due to state and local laws, there are certain restrictions for various products. It's up to you to research and comply with the laws in your state, county, and city. If you live in a state or city where air guns are treated as firearms you may be able to take advantage of our FFL special program.

    U.S. federal law requires that all airsoft guns are sold with a 1/4-inch blaze orange muzzle or an orange flash hider to avoid the guns being mistaken for firearms.

    View Shipping Restrictions

  • Expert Service and Repair

    Get the most out of your equipment when you work with the expert technicians at Pyramyd AIR. With over 25 years of combined experience, we offer a range of comprehensive in-house services tailored to kickstart your next adventure.

    If you're picking up a new air gun, our team can test and tune the equipment before it leaves the warehouse. We can even set up an optic or other equipment so you can get out shooting without the hassle. For bowhunters, our certified master bow technicians provide services such as assembly, optics zeroing, and full equipment setup, which can maximize the potential of your purchase.

    By leveraging our expertise and precision, we ensure that your equipment is finely tuned to meet your specific needs and get you ready for your outdoor pursuits. So look out for our services when shopping for something new, and let our experts help you get the most from your outdoor adventures.

    View Service Info

  • Warranty Info

    Shop and purchase with confidence knowing that all of our air guns (except airsoft) are protected by a minimum 1-year manufacturer's warranty from the date of purchase unless otherwise noted on the product page.

    A warranty is provided by each manufacturer to ensure that your product is free of defect in both materials and workmanship.

    View Warranty Details

  • Exchanges / Refunds

    Didn't get what you wanted or have a problem? We understand that sometimes things aren't right and our team is serious about resolving these issues quickly. We can often help you fix small to medium issues over the phone or email.

    If you need to return an item please read our return policy.

    Learn About Returns

Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

View Shipping Info

Text JOIN to 91256 and get $10 OFF Your Next $50+ Order!

* By providing your number above, you agree to receive recurring autodialed marketing text msgs (e.g. cart reminders) to the mobile number used at opt-in from Pyramyd AIR on 91256. Reply with birthday MM/DD/YYYY to verify legal age of 18+ in order to receive texts. Consent is not a condition of purchase. Msg frequency may vary. Msg & data rates may apply. Reply HELP for help and STOP to cancel. See Terms and Conditions & Privacy Policy.