Feinwerkbau 150: Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Announcement: Here’s this week’s winner of Pyramyd Air’s Big Shot of the Week on their facebook page. He’ll receive a $50 gift card.


This was taken by A.J. Stewart right after a blizzard in New York. Edith says this reminds her of the movie “Where Eagles Dare.”

Part 1
Part 2


The FWB 150 is a classic target rifle from the past. It’s also the father of the FWB 300.

Today, we’ll see if the FWB 150 target rifle can shoot. A couple good things have happened in the meantime to help me with today’s test. First, you may remember the last time I shot the Ballard rifle I discovered how to best hold it (on the bench) for really fine results. I applied all I learned there to the 150, and it did seem to help.

Next, you remember I reported that my eyes had suddenly gone bad a few months back? That was due to some blood sugar issues and the fact that my body was so dehydrated that my eyes had lost enough fluid to alter their prescription. They’re back to being very close to where they used to be now that I’m controlling my blood sugar, so sighting with non-optical sights is getting easier.

While my eyes were bad, I discovered that if I used a 500-watt quartz photo lamp on the target instead of a 75-watt lamp, I could see the target better. Now that my eyes are recovering almost all their former power, it’s even more helpful to use such bright illumination. I remember from the NRA National Junior Air Rifle matches that each of the 140 shooters on line had a 500-watt quartz lamp illuminating each target. So, the answer was there all along, I just wasn’t paying attention.

Finally, my 150 rear sight came with a Gehmann color filter; and when I switched from clear to dark yellow, all the mirage left the target. Mirage is when the target appears to distort and even move while you’re sighting. The yellow filter in this case cancels that and the bull stays put and also perfectly round.


My rear aperture sight has an extra attachment. A Gehmann color filter (the two knurled rings with the silver ring in between) allow you to select one of several filters through which to view the front sight. I found that far from being a gimmick. It really worked.

I began the test with RWS Hobby pellets, knowing that I probably needed to sight-in. The rifle was laid directly on a sandbag at 10 meters, because the 150′s sledge anti-recoil system acts like the perfect artillery hold, just like the RWS Diana model 54 Air King did the other day.

In fact, there were a lot of comparisons between the 150 and the Diana 54. Both are sidelevers, but where the 54 action has to be levered into position by the sidelever before the shot, the 150 doesn’t do that. The target rifle is so easy to cock that you can leave it in position on the bag and simply pull the sidelever.

Also, the shot cycle of the 150 is far smoother than that of the 54. In fact, this one is smooth for a 150. The tuneup really changed the nature of this gun for the positive.

All of the following shot groups are five shots. I continued to adjust the zero throughout the testing, so if the point of impact seems to move from target to target, it’s because it really does.

One last observation before I begin the report. The other day while testing the Diana 54, I complained because I shot out the point of aim early on, making it difficult to aim precisely. A scope sight needs something in the center of the target for the crosshairs to align with. With an aperture sight, you can hit the exact center of the bull repeatedly and never notice it, because you’re using the outside of the black bullseye to sight. That’s why I felt comfortable adjusting the sights to hit the center of my targets.

RWS R10 Match Heavy pellets
For some reason, RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets produced the largest groups of the four pellets I tested. I shot several groups and then tested all the other pellets in turn. Finally, I returned and shot a couple more groups with R10s, but they just didn’t want to group as tight as the others. The best group I shot measured 0.191 inches.


Try as I might, this was the best group I shot with RWS R-10 Heavy target pellets.

Next came the H&N Match Pistol pellets. They shot tighter groups than the R10, but still not as good as I was expecting from this rifle. The best group measured 0.153 inches between centers.


H&N Match Pistol pellets were better in the 150.

Then, I switched to H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets and saw an immediate improvement. There were several good groups, but the best one measured 0.119 inches between centers.


H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets shot one of the smallest groups of the test.

The last pellet I tried was also the first one I’d started with — the RWS Hobby. For some unknown reason, Hobbys shot the generally tightest groups of all four pellets in this particular rifle. Even though H&N Pistol Match tied them on one target, Hobbys were best overall.


RWS Hobby pellets also shot the smallest groups of the test. This one measures 0.119 inches.

End of the test
Well, that was a good look at the FWB 150, and it sets us up for the next report on the FWB 300S, a later, more refined version of the same gun. I found the 150 to be a good blend of old-world craftsmanship and the latest technology of its day. Ten-meter rifles continued to evolve and get easier to shoot after the 150 was left behind, but they didn’t get much more accurate.

87 Responses to “Feinwerkbau 150: Part 3”

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Now that is an interesting rifle. It is indeed accurate. I know there are other flavors for other shooters, but these are the type of air rifles and pistols that have my attention. Maybe you can talk PA into sending you a Hammerli AR20 to review.

    • Matt61 Says:

      Like your handle. Is it for the Marine task force that rescued Fox Company at the Toktong Pass in the Korean War?

      Matt61

  • twotalon Says:

    B.B.

    While you did not come right out and say it, I get the impression that you really enjoyed shooting this rifle.

    twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      twotalon,

      Yes, I really did enjoy shooting the 150. It is the kind of shooting that makes me glad I’m an airgunner.

      B.B.

  • GenghisJan Says:

    Hi, folks. I’m not a 10m guy, nor even particularly a spring-gun guy, but you guys are giving me an itch for one of these venerable old rifles. Some weeks ago, Kevin unloaded a number of vintage 10m guns on the classifieds. Maybe I was imagining things, but I almost felt like those sales went somewhere beyond the usual market-driven stuff. Like maybe there was a hint of evangelism at work? A veteran airgunner hoping to seed some of the Good Stuff into the hands of the next generation? (not that you’re an old fart or anything, Kevin)

    Last season, one of the DIFTA shooters shot several matches with his beloved FWB 300 Running Target (that’s a thing, right?). Six fpe. Still shot unbelievable scores, even though there were plenty of targets where we could all plainly see that he drilled ‘em dead-center, but didn’t quite hit ‘em hard enough to actually knock ‘em down. He doesn’t care about those: he just loves shooting that rifle. B.B., you remember Rex? I think he’s old-school enough that you two maybe overlapped…

    -Jan

  • GenghisJan Says:

    duskwight,

    I can’t WAIT to hear how the duskcombe project evolves! Spare us no details!

    I sure hope we can get a nice, long series of guest blogs out of this!

    Say, speaking of utterly riveting tales by Russian natives, when’s Josh Ungier gonna weave his next post?

    -Jan

  • Willmore Says:

    The ‘mirage’ that you were seeing was probably caused by ‘chromatic aberation’ which is a phenomenon found in simple lenses–like found in most sights and in all peep-holes. Basically, the different colors of the spectrum are focused at different distances from the lens.

    This effect has a very long history in both astronomy and microscopy. In both fields, the simplest way to combat it is to not use white light. If you use only one wavelength, then you won’t have an issue with them focusing at different distances from the lens because there is only the one color.

    The specific colors are picked for a few reasons. One of them is to find a color that you can actually make a filter for that has a narrow ‘passband’ of frequencies. The other is to pick a color that transmits well through the air–for example, blue is bad as it scatters more from small particles in the air (this is why the sky is blue). The last one is perceived brightness by the human eye. A brighter looking target has plenty of benefits (see below for an example). The most common color for shooting seems to be a yellow or yellow/green.

    The other solution is to use complex lenses that combine elements of different refraction indexes to try to cancel out this effect. But, then you have problems with dispersion, so you use fancy materials and then you’re getting expensive….

    The reason the brighter light helps is because the depth of field of a lens (like the human eye) is related to the aperture size vs the focal length. Since the focal length of the human eye is pretty fixed, the change in aperture size (iris opening) will effect the depth of field. Adding more light will cause the iris to close down. So, if something is out of focus–say the target when you’re focusing on the front post–then adding more light and closing down the iris will increase the depth of field and bring the rear sight and the target closer into focus.

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      When mountain biking, I always use yellow lenses. It really brings out the detail in what would ordinarily be shadows and glare. Very helpful when going downhill at 40 mph on tree-lined trails.

      • Willmore Says:

        A yellow filter will pass yellow and block blue (blue is opposite yellow in the subtractive color space), so your yellow glasses will block the diffused blue light that tends to haze thing up. I’m not sure it will really do much to bring out detail in the shadows, but the increased contrast may make your brain think there’s more detail there.

        Most driving glasses are yellow-ish for this same reason. It can make a huge difference on an overcast or lightly foggy day.

  • Chuck Says:

    Now, this is some shooting! I might say the best I’ve seen so far (but, then, there’s that memory thing). I haven’t bought a dedicated 10m rifle yet. When I do get the bug I ask myself, why? What purpose would it serve? 10m competition is way beyond my physical capabilities at my age. Then I see groups like these and think, hey, I might be able to do that. That, in itself, might be satisfying. Would that justify the cost? Ouch! I have to quit thinking out loud like this. I’m sure you all know what I’m going through. That @#$% bug keeps biting harder and harder.

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Chuck

      Whenever I see your avatar I reflexively hit the brake pedal, which my computer does not have. That is followed by a wave of relief.

      You have a Daisy 953 doncha? That is a purpose built 10m rifle isn’t it? Certainly not in the same class as this FWB obviously, but 10m nonetheless. The sights are crap. Even Daisy’s upgraded aperature sights. Didn’t you even win some e-matches with the 953? Then again, my memory is not what it… what were we talking about?

      I wouldn’t mind having one of these babies (vintage 10m springers) myself. I am not a huge fan of the target style stocks (SOME do look rather nice), which is why I like the 150, as it has a sporter stock. Kevin was really offering up some beautiful rifles on the yellow recently. Not stuff you see everyday, to say the least.

      • Chuck Says:

        SL,
        I expect to change my avatar some time soon. I hate to think of you wearing a groove in the carpeting beneath your computer trying to apply your “air” brake. I’m having a hard time letting go of that bike mentally and seeing that picture several times a day isn’t helping. Seller’s remorse is what it is.

        Yes, I do have a 953, and it is a fine shooter, and I did win an airgunarena match with it, however, (and this is embarrassing) I won the match because I was the only entry at that time. The matches seem to be drawing a larger group of shooters, now, and some of their scores are to drool for.

        Unlike you, I do like that style of stock and the more radical the better. I like the looks of the peep sights on them, too. There are limited models available to me since I want an ambidextrous or left-hand version. So far, that dreaded resolve hasn’t struck to make me buy what I really want.

  • DaveUK Says:

    BB:
    My BAM would make a good 10m rifle….If I was to throw it I mean.

    Your groups look great to me but for a comparison as to what is required of a 10m competition shooter,how do they fare?
    Would it have to be 5 shots through the same hole to even stand a chance of winning?
    Cheers.
    Dave

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Dave,

      This 150 would be a good competition rifle. It is fully accurate enough.

      Modern guns have better ergonomics and shooting behavior, but they aren’t more accurate.

      B.B.

    • Matt61 Says:

      DaveUK, which BAM? My B30 continues to hold up well post-tune.

      Matt61

    • pete z Says:

      The world’s record for a 10 meter rifle competition is 600/600. The record including finals is 703.6 held by Gagan Narang of India and set on 6 October 2010 in New Delhi. The FWB 150 and 300s can certainly shoot 70 consecutive 10s, but the ergonomics of more modern guns make it easier for the best shooters to get the most out of the intrinsic accuracy.

      -pz

      • DaveUK Says:

        Matt61:
        My BAM is the XS B3-1 as featured in my avatar.
        I was being a bit tongue in cheek but rifle is that tough,I bet I could throw it 10m without damaging it.

        BB & Pete Z:
        Wow that is good shooting.
        10m doesn’t sound far until you factor in the consistant accurate shots required to just compete.
        Dave.

        • pete zimmerman Says:

          Good shooting? Yes, the best ever done in ISSF sanctioned competition. Damned good shooting. I would like to shoot just one single 100 point/10 shot string, thank you very much…

  • twotalon Says:

    B.B.

    Do you plan to do a final accuracy report on the R7? If I remember right, Mac was doing it, but the scope was wasted.
    I would like to see what another R7 will do considering a couple groups that I have gotten out of R7#2 at just short of 10yds.
    I could tell you how mine did, but I don’t think anyone would believe it.

    twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      twotalon,

      No, the R7 went back to Pyramyd Air.

      B.B.

    • Volvo Says:

      The R7 is hard to beat at shorter ranges, not even bad at 40 yards.

      • twotalon Says:

        Think I will stick with something that has a bit more punch for that far. I figure on keeping to about 30 max.

        twotalon

    • Frank B Says:

      Now TwoTalon,that’s just not fair.You have plenty of credibility here,and so what if someone doesn’t believe it.That’s their problem.I for one would really be interested in how the “good” R7 is doing.Mine continues to suprize me….they are truly wonderful,easy shooting springers…..like they used to make before the power war began.

      • twotalon Says:

        Well…if you have to know…

        Basement shooting …no wind or rain. A foot and a half short of 10yds. Sitting on a cooler, bench is a folding table and not too stable, rifle forend rested on a stack of PA pellet protector foam.
        10 cplhp (a week ago) into .1″c-t-c. About an hour ago, 5 H&N Finale Match Rifle (4.51) into .053″ c-t-c. Looked like two overlapping holes.

        Even if you believe it, don’t think for a minute that the cheap Walrus World cplhp is a good pellet. They don’t do too nice at 25 yds…fliers set in.

        Now if I could just stop wobbling on the target( mostly lefty-righty).

        Still need to call Air Venturi to see if I can get a new barrel for R7#1.

        twotalon

        • Slinging Lead Says:

          I don’t think you would try and put one over on us.

          That’s some darn fine shooting. Glad you are enjoying R7 #2.

          • twotalon Says:

            There is a lot to be said for the R7 (HW30 with different barrel and stock?).
            It’s low powered and small and light, but easy to shoot. Makes a hollow sounding “thoomp” when fired. No other noticeable noise. It does not make me twitchy. Just get on the target and squeeze off the shot.

            I do wish HW would ease off on what they do to the trigger adjustment screw tab. It has to be unbent quite a bit to do any adjustment without wrecking the screw. They should make and package (with the rifle) a special tool to unbend that friggin tab. Pliers do not fit in there very easy.

            Say, you got to see what some of my left index finger looks like.

            twotalon

            • Frank B Says:

              That is an awesome group.I know about the cheap version CP’s at longer ranges.I “knew better” but bought some because they went on clearance…..and my logic was that the more pellets tried in a gun,the less you question buying it’s favorite pellets.As many as I have hoarded (airguns),something was bound to like them.BTW,I shot a fly at 23 yards from my living room….out the back door to the target margin.It was a cold bore shot with the Condor& micrometer tank w/ 18″ .177 barrel….unsorted CP boxed heavies.There are little bits of organic matter next to the pellet hole as witness to the micro-carnage!

              • Frank B Says:

                BTW,if you crop that picture……it would be a fine avatar! It does kinda get to the “point” of things.

                • twotalon Says:

                  That target was one that I salvaged from my outdoor target stand and stapled to my duct seal trap in the basement because it still had some good places to shoot on it. That is why there is paper showing behind the other holes. My spare targets are in my van, as is the target stand. Same amount of work to retrieve a target anyway.

                  If I was going to do a bug splat target I would use the Nikon with the macro zoom, an extender tube or two, and a closeup magnifier filter lens. The pic i posted was shot in the basement while holding the camera with one hand and letting the camera auto focus.

                  twotalon

              • twotalon Says:

                Ony time I ever shot flies was when I was stationed at WP AFB down at Dayton. We had junk furniture. I would sit back drinking beer and listening to rock with a 78G in my hand. Flies would some times land on the sofa…and get blasted. My roomate gave me crap for it. There were holes in the sofa with fly parts scattered around them. To get them off the cieling I used a 1400 without a pellet and got the muzzle close.

                I don’t think I had an ordinary fly swatter back then.

                Never tried bugs at any long range other than yellow jackets at about 20yds. Maybe I should rub some squirrel guts on a target and see what turns up. Grasshoppers are fun in late summer.

                I have good days for a few shots, and some bad days when I should have done something else. The residual effects of chemo do not help much.

                twotalon

                • Frank B Says:

                  I hear ya.We’re all on the group “W” bench for something….with me it is two herniated lumbar discs,along with the more obvious mental issues:).If I ever hit the lottery,I will get us all together
                  in one big bunch.I think that would be an event to remember! I couldn’t hit anything without a doorframe or a bench! I should probably collect grenades instead….

                  • J-F Says:

                    Getting everyone for a shoot, wouldn’t that be awesome! I have my ticket for tonight, 3.5 millions but it’s all mine as lottery winnings aren’t taxable.
                    I’d get a few guns to leave in the US we could use white cardboard and some glucose and have a fly shootout LOL! Wasps are a personnal favorite but flies could do it too ;-)

                    J-F

  • Matt61 Says:

    Love the award-winning picture. I used to play with my action figures in this kind of weather.

    B.B., I had guessed that with all of the sighting accessories out there that you would find something to help you. And as to the question of whether the FWB 150 can shoot, I would say yes….

    Duskwight, good luck with the opposed springs idea. I’ll be interested to hear how it works since it relates to my idea of counterwound springs to decrease tension on the lever throw of my fantasy spring rifle.

    I feel bound to report that I have soldered (actually unsoldered) and no one can take it away from me! But destroying is supposed to be easier than creating, so restoring the joint will be another hurdle in the near future.

    Edith, did you write the PA letter by any chance? I was relieved to see that there is a precedent in striking down a law like the one proposed. The law likes precedents and this one seems to be on our side. Come on California.

    Chuck, I bet you see some pretty strange things on the road during your cross-country trips. Ever see the film Gumball Rally? It’s about an anything goes race across the U.S. One professor, using his intellect, decides that he will be quicker and more versatile on a motorcycle, but he sees the darnedest things. Mooning out a car window with the hand waving below is the least of it. When he finally reaches the finish line in California he goes airborne and sails right through a billboard into the midst of some very upset people. But when they yank off his helmet (like an unhorsed knight), they discover that he has been reduced to a subhuman, baring his teeth and growling. Anyway, keep us apprised of anything interesting.

    Frank B., yes I attribute my new sharpness to going extra easy on the fine stone like you said.

    On the subject of springers, I wonder if my attraction to them has to do with my emerging affinity for bolt-action surplus rifles. Could it be that one’s true interests will manifest themselves in whatever medium you happen to be working in? It was said of Michaelangelo that his painted figures looked like sculptures before he actually picked up sculpting. So, on a smaller mini-me scale, maybe my interest in springers harkens to the surplus rifles. I’ve pretty much decided that running the bolt correctly on an SMLE is one of those martial arts that must be preserved.

    You all will really freak out at the latest evolutionary and transformative shooting purchase that is sitting on my living room floor. It’s another Jurassic Park. For those who like to guess, you have until tomorrow when all will be revealed.

    Matt61

    • Chuck Says:

      matt,
      The most memorable moments I’ve had were the scenery. I can’t describe the order of magnitude difference in the wow power between touring on a motorcycle vs a car. One non-scenery event occurred in Alberta, Canada. I don’t remember now exactly where it was. It happened somewhere between Edmonton, Alberta and Dawson Creek, BC. A buddy and I decided to prep for a future year Alaska trip by riding to Dawson Creek, the half-way point. On a rather lonely stretch of road we were passed by two Lamborghini’s, an F40 style Ferrari and a Mercedes McClaren. They were obviously exercising their $500,000+ cars. What a once-in-a-lifetime thing to see! I wish I could have gotten both audio and video. Moments later a police car coming from the opposite direction made a rather dangerous U-turn right in front of me and took off for the Perps. A few miles down the road he had all four of them pulled over and was writing something in a little book. I wanted so bad to stop and take a picture of those four cars in a row with a cop writing them a ticket but I have a feeling none of them, including the Constable, would have let me get away with it.

      My worst experience took place on Highway 1 at Big Sur, California. I was riding by myself to my Niece’s wedding in Santa Rosa. I was coming around a turn when a black Cadillac Escalade pulled out of a souvenir shop parking lot right in front of me and headed right for me in my lane. I locked up the brakes and the rear of the bike started sliding out, I quickly let up on the brakes and the bike did this little jig and I ended up in the oncoming lane still with the rubber side down and me in control. I have no idea where the Escalade went. I just remember seeing a black shadow out of the corner of my eye. I couldn’t have missed it by more than a foot and by the time I got back in the right lane and recovered my senses it was long gone. My only explanation is that it was a driver from one of those countries where they drive on the left and they thought they were in the correct lane.

    • Matt61 Says:

      Okay, for those waiting with bated breath. What’s sitting on my living room floor is…a new reloading outfit–press, shellholders, dies, brass, Sierra Match King bullets, powder, primers, bullet puller, auto-priming tray! I can’t believe it! Thanks to all for the recommendations for Lee products. The whole thing cost about $300 with the press kit going for about $100. I can’t believe it! It’s a long way from the days when I got my first airsoft sniper rifle, loaded it, and very, very carefully let fly with a round inside of the carboard packing box. I am in for it now and there is no going back.

      I’ll throw in another revelation. With all my equipment in front of me, I calculate that the cost of a single 30-06 round for my M1 will be 71 cents! That’s only slightly shy of my premier factory Black Hills ammo. In other words, it’s a fortune. Shooting out the barrel of my M1 as I surely plan to do in this lifetime will cost thousands! What happened and how could this matter of simple arithmetic have escaped me?! I feel like the NASA scientists who forgot to convert English units to the metric system and saw their super expensive probe crash on Mars. Apparently, what got me is the $25 hazardous materials handling fee for both the powder and primers that no one told me anything about. >:-) So, do you guys have gunstores nearby where you can get exotic reloading powders?

      Fortunately, it’s not just about the money but about the education and the chance to shoot my M1 properly. It’s time to open another Arsenal of Democracy. A lot of parts in the box are puzzling I have to admit. This would be good material for a reality show.

      Matt61

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Matt,

        “For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not sit down first and calculate the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it?” Luke:14:28.

        No reloader likes to pay HAZMAT fees. They destroy the whole cost-savings drive. We buy from gun stores that sell supplies, and we buy in bulk.

        Nearby is a relative thing. If your gun store is over 100 miles away, you make a once-a-year trek and plan your purchases beforehand. You call ahead and have them hold the order for you. I seldom drive more than 50 miles to get my supplies, yet I still do this.

        Consider buying supplies at gun shows. I usually buy a couple thousand primers at a show IF they are priced right. Right, in this case, means under $25/thousand. And I use Russian primers that cost only $19/thousand. These I buy through the mail, but I buy so many at a time that the HAZMAT fee isn’t an issue.

        Wideners has the Wolf primers you need for $16.50/thousand. Buy 5,000 and the HAZMAT fee becomes inconsequential.

        http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|284|737

        I buy powder in 8-lb. canisters and the story is the same.

        I buy jacketed bullets from Midway, in bulk and sometimes when they are on sale. I seldom pay more than 10 cents per bullet.

        In for a penny, in for a pound.

        B.B.

  • Victor Says:

    B.B.,
    Good iron sight shooting! Those match pellets produce nice holes, don’t they.
    Victor

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    That is the type of shooting many of us were talking about expecting with match rifle and sights from rest! I’m sad some people got mad about it; perhaps now they will forgive us, seeing it. Good shooting.

    • twotalon Says:

      Peep and globe can be very precise. You want the globe to have the right size hole that all you see around the bull when centered is just a thin halo. If you get just a tiny bit off center, the halo will wink out on the side you pulled away from.

      twotalon

    • pcp4me Says:

      BG,

      Thank you! I agree wholly with your comments. And many good airguns are capable on groups near that with the proper pellet, bench set up and shooter technique. With a world class 10 meter shooter the bench is optional!! My Disco will come very close to those groups only it is a .22 so the groups look bigger but ctc I can shoot rested groups all day at <.3 and 2/3 are <.2 and about 1/3 are <.15" ctc.

      My MA custom carbine does even better than that and is the most accurate air gun I own at this point. So keep up the work all you precision shooters!

    • Victor Says:

      BG_Farmer,

      Now that is something that I can’t possibly understand. Why in the world would someone have gotten mad about that? B.B. never claimed to be the finest marksman on the planet, nor a world class competitor. In fact, his claims have been quite modest.

      However, he DEFINITELY IS an expert shooter, and in particular with springers. I still marvel at the groups he gets with lots of springers. Same goes for the kinds of groups that we see from Mac. Bottom line is that for the purpose of air-gun reviews, B.B. provides value added, solid, information that anyone can rely on. Most people not only couldn’t, but wouldn’t, care to shoot as well as he does.

      As I’ve said MANY times, it takes me MONTHS to master a springer. B.B. doesn’t get the luxury of taking his time to master every gun he gets to review.

      Victor

      • BG_Farmer Says:

        I didn’t exactly understand it either, except maybe they thought we were being hard on BB, who should know by now that I have nothing but respect and admiration for him — and didn’t seem upset about it himself! I agree totally about getting used to something — I know a few people that can shoot anything you put in their hands right off the bat, but most of us need months :) .

        • Chuck Says:

          Excuse me for being ignorant but I can’t figure out the source of this thread. What is the incident you’re talking about?

          • Slinging Lead Says:

            Chuck

            This was the fateful day:

            http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/03/testing-4-vintage-10-meter-air-rifles/

            Personally, I am still holding a grudge. ;-)

            • Chuck Says:

              SL,
              Oops! Well…I guess I sided with the perp, :-) didn’t I? Not out of anger, you see, but with what I meant to be reasoning. To open old wounds, I still take the position that one of the reasons I read this blog (not the only reason mind you) is to find a rifle that meets my expectations and disposable cash reserve. My main way of selecting a several hundred dollar candidate is by how big a hole it makes in a piece of paper ( that certainly pushes the envelope on “reason”, wouldn’t you say? :-) ). My expectations are that BB will show me that. From today’s blog, I can tell you I’m impressed with the FWB 150 but not looking for one. However, after seeing BB’s excellent results, I am looking for a rifle that shoots like one, preferably a PCP.

              And thanks for the link, SL. After going back in time and rereading the “Vintage-Rifle-Test” I came across the comment from Victor to me about the Challenger ($599) and the FWB 700 ($1,595). And PA still has that left-handed Air Arms S400 MPR ($795) in stock, too. The itch is back.

              • Victor Says:

                Chuck,
                My two cents worth were from my personal experience with the FWB 300s. Back when I competed, and in particular, in my prime, I was very impressed with the 300s. I had concrete knowledge of what a 300s could do in my hands.

                Regarding the Challenger, an early review by Ray Apelles claimed that it could shoot single pellet hole groups at 10 yards. Again, Ray Apelles, like me, did our own tests while we were not only active competitors, but also champions. I’ve never shot a Challenger, but I’ve held one, and it felt very good. Before buying my FWB 700 ALU, I was going to buy a Challenger, but it kept being pushed out, week and week, month after month.
                Victor

  • Matt61 Says:

    Mike, interesting that the AK series can be so fast shooting. There’s another point in favor of that genius design. On the subject of fast shooting, does anyone have information about the Japanese Type 98 machine gun from WWII that could shoot 1500 round/min? The German MG42 is highly praised with its 1200 round cyclic rate but it is slow compared to the Type 98–which looks cool too. But I think for an infantry weapon, there is a point of diminishing returns in shooting so fast where you’re burning up ammo without achieving anything. Maybe for anti-aircraft shooting it would make sense.

    As for why the Mauser doesn’t seem to kick for you, Mike, that is a puzzle, especially when you’ve used the vintage ammo which is supposed to be a little hotter than what is commercially available. This seems to be the same issue as why some people say that the M-16 design jams easily and other people say that they have never had a malfunction in 20 years. Or maybe the explanation is that you’re an iron man, which I have suspected. :-)

    Matt61

    • Mike Says:

      I’m no iron man for sure. Just years of experience and lots of good instructors over the years. A correct technique goes a long way. I’m just back from shooting a couple rounds of trap. I few friends, some sun makes a nice afternoon after church on Sunday. BTW, my computer is sick so I’m using my daughter’s Apple lap top right now. It’s always something as you know.

      Mike

    • Mike Says:

      I did a little research and found that the Type 98 was a direct copy of the German’s WWII version of the MG 15. So, it’s a German design after all. It was used as a defensive weapon in flexible positions on German aircraft. Fast but it’s no Ma Duce.

      Mike

  • pcp4me Says:

    BB,

    Yee HAAA! I knew you could do it! That is one great gun and some real great shooting. Give the man a good gun and much improved health and he is back on top again! Thank God for that!!

    That is the kind of gun I would love to own! Don’t look as heavy or a clunky as a lot of 10 meter rifles and it sure has nice looking wood!

    You wouldn’t by chance like to sell that little beauty would you. Or know where several are available at bargain prices?

    Sure would be a fun gun to own!

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      pcp4me,

      Yes, I do know where there are hundreds of nice rifles like this for great prices. Scott Pilkington at pilkguns.com has them. I mentioned them in my report on the Malvern airgun show last month.

      B.B.

  • wprejs Says:

    The scope keeps falling of my airhawk elite, Ive used loc-tite and tried almost everything any ideas?

    • twotalon Says:

      I had trouble getting the rings to mount on something. I think it was the Titan.
      If the rings keep jumping out of the grooves, about the best thing you an do is try a different set of rings.
      Sometimes the grooves are pretty thin and shallow, while you can get a set of rings that have too blunt of “jaws” on them. They just don’t fit together right.

      twotalon

    • Frank B Says:

      Have you degreased the rails with alcohol?? And have you tried rings with a one piece base? I don’t have a Ruger Airhawk to be more specific.I saw your question the other day…..I was hoping someone with knowledge specific to the Airhawk could tell you what has worked for them.A one piece base will give you more surface to surface contact to overcome the recoil,and degreasing will help the grip.

      • Frank B Says:

        Alright,I’ve looked at the Airhawk you have.Is the “scope stop” bracket in place,but not stopping the scope from creeping with the supplied rings?? If so,the only thing I can think of will cost some money,unfortunately.You really need something like the BKL 1 piece mount that Pyramyd carries.Tall 2 piece mounts on a magnum springer just put too much torque and stress on the point where they engage the rifle grooves.Especially where the scope stop is making contact……it literally pulls open the ring base,right?

  • wprejs Says:

    yeah the front ring just jumps out after 15 shots

    • Frank B Says:

      Take them rings off,and throw them in the nearest river.once the ring base gets splayed (deformed)
      they’re worthless.I know that $50 for a scope base on a 200$ gun is expensive,but other than using open sights I see no alternative.I have a Gamo Hunter extreme that will do the same.It is lousy to spring (no pun) for the package that includes the scope and rings,only to find out they don’t work for that application.As a last ditch attempt,switch the rings from front to back,and turn each one around
      so it faces opposite of the way it is now.Degrease evverything,and give that a try.Good luck.You will have to rezero….

      • Frank B Says:

        Now that I think more about it…..make sure the jaw on the current front ring isn’t on upside down.
        The “jaw” part should come to a sharp edge,the upper part is more blunt.That could possibly cause what you are describing.

  • twotalon Says:

    This may be of use to some, even if I have not yet varified if it is the real problem…

    I have fits trying to shoot from a bench. Even when I can get good groups and get centered up, I am off when not trying to shoot from a bench. I also have serious consistency problems on the bench.
    Now, I can shoot at about 10yds in the basement or sometimes from a braced position and stay on target. So what is wrong when I go outdoors and shoot from a different bench and shoot from a less contorted and unnatural position???

    I think I may have it figured out. On my outdoor bench, I sit too low. The bench is pretty high against my chest, and my right elbow is lifted too high when resting it on the bench. This twists my right hand counterclockwise and forces my hand out of proper position on the wrist of the rifle. It is playing hell with my trigger control (what little there is).

    I just drilled a couple more holes in my outdoor bench to raise the seat by either 1 or 2″ more . This should drop my right elbow. Won’t know until I try it again to see if it works.

    twotalon

    • Chuck Says:

      twotalon,
      I thought, in off-hand shooting, the elbow was supposed to be straight out. At least that is what my self-appointed “mentor” at the rifle range was teaching me. Am I supposed to be dropping my elbow? Or is this one of those depends-on-who-you-talk-to situation?

      Lots-o-luck with switching from bench to standing. I don’t think you can traverse from bench to off-hand without having complications. The holds are entirely different, the position on the stock and from the sights are not the same and, more importantly, the muscle memory developed for each is not the same. Another factor on bench consistency also is how consistently do you twist your body on the bench’s seat?

      • twotalon Says:

        I seldom shoot straight offhand. I nearly always use whatever I can find to brace or rest against.
        I seem to have the best hold with my right elbow somewhere between 35 and 45 degrees up from straight down. I don’t competition shoot level to the ground. That means that holding the rifle in a comfortable way works best for me. I take my shots the best way I can get them.

        I just tried the bench out in the garage with the seat 2″ higher than the highest stock position for the bench. I focused the scope on the highest magnification on a small spot on the wall, and about all I could see the crosshairs do was just slightly bounce with my heartbeat. The position had a very comfortable feel. My right arm and hand position were about as comfortable and right as I could hope for. Squeezing the trigger did not pull me off target.

        twotalon

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        It *definitely* depends on whom you talk to. The German book “Air Rifle Shooting” shows dropped elbows; the old Russian one shows them out to the side. Raab has me drop mine. Maybe it depends on *when* you learned. Fashions change.

        • twotalon Says:

          I could care less about what is in style. The way that feels best is much easier to duplicate than something that feels unnatural and strained. Hands must fit rifle.

          twotalon

  • twotalon Says:

    Here is a funny one for a slow afternoon.
    I sure would be upset if my order turned out like that. I have been known to violently throw sandwiches across the room if it was wrong.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43271837/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/subway-employee-sold-weed-foot-longs/

    twotalon

    • Frank B Says:

      I’ll bet her customers bought lots of them cookies!! I had Subway last night…..no matter how you interpret it.

      • twotalon Says:

        Been a while since I had a Subway. I usually get subs from Walrus World. Italians if they have them.
        Of course they are a little short of the right ingredients. Some hot banana and jalapeo rings, some sliced olives, and some italian dressing helps them out quite a bit.
        A couple extra slices of good ripe tomato if I cand find some.
        No dope for extra seasoning.

        twotalon

        • Frank B Says:

          I only like Subway because the food won’t eventually kill you.I think it would cost 20$ for the ingredients to make one at home.Produce prices are insane this year.

          • twotalon Says:

            No kidding. I used to make my own subs, pizzas, and chili. In fact, I used to like cooking but got lazy.
            About the only things I cooked that my wife liked was deer ribs. Everything else is a bit on the rough side. Yeah, she likes the taste but it’s too hot for her. She likes things fairly simple and on the mild side. I got flavor and hot addicted in Thailand.
            One time I made some kraut and wieners that ate holes in the aluminum cooking pan before I could finish the leftovers.

            twotalon

            • Slinging Lead Says:

              I love Subway. I eat there as often as I can, never requested the extra meat though. :-)

              I think I would enjoy your cooking TT. I have been known to use a quarter of a bottle of hot sauce seasoning my food. Chicken, chili, pizza, asparagus, fried eggs and especially Frank B’s favorite: ramen noodles.

              My favorite hot sauce is Texas Pete. Made in North Carolina ironically enough.

              • twotalon Says:

                I used to make toxic waste that I called “diet chili”. If you had half a brain, you would not attempt to eat more than one bowl of the stuff. Make a big pot and keep reheating and eating a bowl a day until gone.
                I over did it once . Should have not included the Thai red chilis. Took another can of beans to mellow it out. That stuff was “one spoon a day” chili.

                Dried and ground up jalapeno is good to pepper potatoes and eggs with. Watch the dust when using or preparing the peppers. It gets all over you, and touching your eyes or taking a leak will remind you to be VERY careful.

                twotalon

  • Matt61 Says:

    Edith, any news on the reason for the absence of RWS Hobby pellets? I feel like I am dividing my last bean here.

    Also, on the subject of loaded handguns on the nightstand for self-defense, is there any danger of sleepwalking where you reach out and start blasting away?

    Matt61

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Matt61,

      Never heard back from the purchasing dept. Hopefully, they’ll get back to me this coming week.

      Edith

  • Matt61 Says:

    Another Sepp Allerberger report for what it’s worth. In the book, there’s a scene during an attack when a Russian soldier exhibits great skill with his bayonet in defeating six attackers at the same time with “cat-like swiftness.” So Bruce Lee lives!

    On a related subject, I’ve been immersed in a great WWII documentary on YouTube with the most fabulous technicolor. Really brings it all to life. And I can’t help noticing that the Nazi leadership, especially Hitler, Himmler, and Goebbels is really the revenge of the nerds. Funny-looking in a general sort of way as they say in the film Fargo, and they get completely spastic in public speaking. It is really incomprehensible that people like this held a whole nation in thrall in the midst of a doctrine about physical perfection. Maybe it’s a sign of the degree to which media grooming has permeated our society, and that kind of superficial emphasis is not necessarily to be applauded. But I do think that the basic ugliness of the top Nazis was a mix of physical unattractiveness and inherent evil writ large.

    Matt61

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Matt61,

      You posted this comment 3x, yet all were flagged as spam. Have no idea why. I deleted the other 2, approved this one & whitelisted you for the blog. Hopefully, you won’t be flagged as spam again :-)

      Edith

      • Edith Gaylord Says:

        This was NOT the comment I approved. UGH! It appears that the comment was actually deleted. If you’d like to repost your comment, please do so. If you don’t remember what you wrote, I’ll send it to you :-) Email me at edith@pyramydair.com if you need the text.

        Edith

  • Mike Says:

    I’m just starting to shoot the new to me Diana 34. About 15 years ago, I bought one for my son in .177 cal. This one which I believe is almost new, is at least twice as hard to cock as the old one. This one is a .22. It seems to shoot OK while I haven’t shot in on paper yet. I can hit my 40 yard target with it if my off hand hold is good. BTW, the target is a small juice can on a fence post behind the house. Did they put stronger springs in the new ones? The old one was much easier to cock out of the box.

    Mike

    • Milan Says:

      Mike i am just guessing (so guys correct me if i am wrong )…but it depends…You know did you ever (or lately change the spring on your 34 ? ? Keep in mind that new rifle /gun needs to be broken in -so SPRING WILL eventually soften (and be easier to cock )and even if they did put the stronger spring it means little or nothing because -the real power of air gun is capacity of air it can hold (and use ) ….

      • Mike Says:

        I haven’t changed the spring. However, the other 34 was much easier to cock when new, a lot easier.

        Mike

        • Slinging Lead Says:

          Mike

          I have read many times that Diana used very hard steel for their mainsprings. This resulted in many broken springs, which in turn makes the rifle easier to cock. Perhaps your son’s 34 had a broken spring.

          • Milan Says:

            You guys remember that spring broke on my 34 last summer ………then i took another spring,replace it and since then i had no problems so …SL perhaps you are on to something .
            Yes easier cocking might be because of broken mainspring (and lower power too ).It would be good to check that out just in case (spring in your older 34) .

  • PalmCanoe Says:

    B. B. Pelletier,
    Is Randy still in the air rifle repair business? Is so how can I contact him?

    PalmCanoe

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