Octane combo from Umarex: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Octane combo
Umarex Octane gas spring rifle combo.

Today’s report is both interesting and a little different. I shot the .22-caliber Octane combo from Umarex at 25 yards and used the Umarex 3-9X40 scope that came in the package. I’ll talk about the scope and mounts first.

The scope is a variable with parallax adjustment from 10 yards to infinity. It features a duplex reticle and comes with 2-piece Weaver rings that have 4 screws per cap. The top of the rifle has a Picatinny adapter clamped on the 11mm dovetails that are cut directly into the spring tube, so the scope rings mounted quickly.

I found the scope to be clear and sharp, and the parallax adjustment to be close to the actual distance once the eyepiece was adjusted correctly. This is one of the nicest scopes I have seen bundled with a combo airgun. I don’t think you need to buy anything other than pellets — lots of pellets.

Sight-in
I sighted-in the gun at 12 feet with one shot, then backed up to 25 yards to refine the sight picture. Veteran readers know I’m purposely trying not to hit the center of the bull, as that erases the aim point.

I was finished sighting-in after 4 more shots and ready to start shooting for the record. The first pellet I selected was the .22 caliber 14.3-grain Crosman Premier that had done so well in the 10-meter test with open sights.

After the first 5 shots, I thought I had a slam-dunk accurate rifle, but I guess I got a little sloppy. Shot 6 went into the same hole, but shots 7 through 10 moved over to the left of the main group. Six consecutive shots went into 0.449 inches; but after 10 shots, the group measured 1.067 inches.

Octane combo Premier group 1
The first 6 Crosman Premiers went into a tight 0.449 inches, but the remaining 4 shots opened the group to 1.067 inches at 25 yards.

After this group was finished I discovered the scope base screws were both loose. That made the scope loose, as well. I tightened them and checked them frequently throughout the remainder of the test.

The second group of Premiers opened to 1.382 inches. This one is very horizontal, but within it is a tight group of 4 shots that came early in the string. That group measures 0.188 inches between centers.

Octane combo Premier group 2
These 10 Premiers are not very impressive for 25 yards, at 1.382 inches between centers; but at the 9 o’clock position on the bull, 4 pellets went into a tight 0.188 inches!

Following this group, I noticed that both forearm screws had come loose. So they were tightened — a lot! And for the rest of the test, I monitored their tightness closely.

What’s happening?
The Octane recoils a lot, and you have to watch all the screws. Once they’re tight, they probably won’t back out for a long time; but the first time you use the gun, they probably need to be tightened just a bit more than normal. At least, watch for them to loosen.

This is nothing new. We have always been told to watch the screws on spring guns that recoil heavily. I just forgot it this time until it became obvious downrange.

JSB Exact Jumbo
Next I tried JSB Exact Jumbo pellets. They did very well for the first 6, then the last 4 wandered over to the right. And when I say “wandered,” I mean they really went places! The group measures 2.822 inches between centers, with 6 of those shots in 0.763 inches.

Octane combo JSB Exact Jumbo group
Interesting group! Six shots in a tight 0.763 inches, then the last 4 stretched it out to 2.822 inches. Go figure!

After this group, I played around with holding my off hand at different places under the forearm, and then some non-standard holds that included resting the rifle directly on the bag 2 different ways. By the time I was finished, I’d fired over 60 shots from a rifle that takes 39 lbs. of force to cock. I never reported that effort in Part 2, like I normally would, so now you know that the Octane is hard to cock — like all powerful gas spring airguns.

I suspected that I was tiring at this point. The term used in competition is I was “blowing up”! The Octane wanted to put them in the same place, but something prevented it. I shot one final group of Premiers — just to see if I could see what it was doing. But that group wasn’t worth reporting. I had clearly pushed past the point of fatigue, so the session was over.

Here’s what’s at stake. Priced at just $200 with a very good scope, the Octane is poised to take its place beside legendary air rifles like the RWS Diana 34 Striker Pro combo. It’s actually $100 less than the 34, yet offers the same power. If it also gives the same accuracy, the Octane suddenly becomes an important air rifle; and if the horribly heavy trigger has a workable solution that the average owner can follow, then folks, we have a winner. So, I want to give this air rifle every chance to compete. It seems to want to do well, so I need to find out what needs to be done.

104 Responses to “Octane combo from Umarex: Part 4”

  • Michael Benner Says:

    BB,
    Been following you for a while I just picked one of these up and haven’t had a chance to get it out to shoot yet first thing I did notice and change is the breach oring when I got mine it was almost completely smashed by the card they shoved into the space, that and I tightend the action a slight bit as out was loose and upgraded to a decent leapers scope. I’m looking forward to your opinion on this and hope you figure out what is holding yours back accuracy wise
    My best to you and Edith, mike

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Maybe Charlie Da Tuna will get curious enough to come up with a new trigger for it. The amount of trigger pull itself is no longer a deal breaker, as long as it is crisp. My BSA has taught me that. I think what this air rifle really needs is a new stock.

    As for the 499 being more accurate than the Diana, maybe so, but that old Diana is made of steel.

    • DMoneyTT Says:

      I’m afraid that a true 2-stage trigger would be very hard to do on this rifle, as there is already limited sear engagement. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, just that it would require a lot of reworking of the trigger components. Basically a full redesign. If I was going to offer an adjustable trigger with a lighter pull, I would definitely use a torsion/leaf spring instead of a coil spring for the trigger/false 1st stage spring. To lower the weight, the trigger adjustment screw would need to be moved so that it pointed more towards the muzzle. This would increase the amount of leverage being applied to the lever beneath it by the trigger manipulation. It may necessitate having the adjustment screw come out behind the trigger blade instead of in front of it. I would also include a set of bushing with it too. It would honestly be a very easy part to make. I could design one in no time, but I don’t have the necessary machinery to produce a nice finished product like buyers would want. Maybe I’ll make a one-off by hand and see if anyone wants to take on production of them. I wonder what the demand is for Octane trigger upgrades. There seems to be plenty of interest on blogs and forums, but it could be the same 100 people displaying their interest. Even if 100 were sold, I have no idea if that would be enough to allow parts costs to be low enough to break even. It’s a shame that Umarex (or is it really a xisico?) made such a nice rifle, and put together a good trigger group in general, but stopped short at the trigger adjustment screw. A simple relocation of the screw’s contact point and the selection of a rounded-tip screw instead of a sharp one would have made a world of difference in the quality of the trigger.

      • DMoneyTT Says:

        Oh, and about the stock. I was worried I wouldn’t like it. The comb appeared to offer no cheekweld. After shooting mine a while I noticed that it worked just fine for me. The polymer and skeletonized stock were also critical in keeping the weight down, which is a big consideration for Umarex since this rifle is already pretty heavy and many use the gun for hunting. Having said that, I prefer wood by a long shot, and since I’m not a hunter I would be fine with a big, heavy stock to help stabilize the rifle. Unfortunately, I am not that great at woodworking. I’ve inletted a couple stocks but never created a complete one. Let us know if you come across something that might work. I would love a nice heavy walnut stock on my CFR. One can always dream.

        • RidgeRunner Says:

          The CFR would likely be a good candidate for a nice wood stock. There are several out there who make some pretty nice looking stocks and I have seen at least one stock company that makes stocks for DIYers. As for fixing that stuff from Wang Po Industries, I get tired of it after a while. I’ll just save up my pennies until I can get an HW90 and if I don’t like the chunk of wood it is on, I will have something worth restocking. Wish I still had my CFX.

        • Wyldman Says:

          The Ruger Yukon is the exact same rifle with a very nice wood stock, though it’s not a thumbhole dedign. I find it much nicer than the standard Octane stok. The checkering on the forearm and pistol grip is all cut, instead of being pressed in. It may be possible to order one from Ruger if you reslly dislike the plastic thunbhole stock from Umarex.

  • /Dave Says:

    Fatigue always seems to pay a big part in finding what a magnum springer wants… Took me quite a few sessions with my HW90 to figure it out. Hard to cock, not to mention big and heavy! I always feel as though I’m pulling out a bazooka when I dig it out of the safe.

    /Dave

  • Mike Says:

    It may have potential. Loose screws are common on many new guns. This includes firearms. It’s always a good idea to check.

    Mike

    • Ben Says:

      Spot on Mike. Every gun needs to be gone through, cleaned and inspected on purchasing, with the only exception being high end customs because you are already paying a professional to do it.

  • Joe Says:

    B.B.,
    At the end of your article, you said if a gun is accurate, has a good trigger and price below its competitor’s gun, it will sell. If a company made a copy of the TX200 that is all that, but it is Made in China, will it sell? Also what about the craftsmanship of the gun?
    Joe

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Joe,

      I guess I would put ther BAM B40 (the rifle you refer to) in a different category. It is a lot more expensive than the Octane, so it goes up against guns like the TX 200, where the competition is really fierce.

      B.B.

      • Joe Says:

        B.B,
        Is this why Benjamin will not be selling their version of the TX200 copy? I think it was called the M77.
        Joe

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Joe,

          I don’t know. It might be. But they have now had 3 years to think about it and I would think they could make up their minds.

          B.B.

  • pete in the Caribbean Says:

    B.B.,
    Could be we have a scope problem. Seems odd that it would be very accurate @ 10m with open sights and then become a shotgun @25 yds with a scope mounted. I had my TF 87 zeroed @20yds and lent it to a friend only to get it back shooting all over the place. I had to remount the scope and install a new shim to compensate for the barrel droop so as to get back the accuracy. I would shoot the Octane @25yds with open sights and mount a new scope to see if that solves the problem.
    Merry Christmas to you and Edith and all the blog readers.

    Pete

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Pete,

      That’s a good call! I will shoot the rifle at 25 yards with the open sights and see what happens!

      Thanks,

      B.B.

      • Bradly Says:

        B.B., did you ever get to try it with the open sights? Thanks, Bradly
        I hope I didn’t double post….I sent in one and couldn’t find it.

  • Michael Benner Says:

    As far as trigger pull goes there is someone who posted a decent work up on polishing the octane trigger and lightening the pull just above 2 pounds on gatewaytoairguns I’ll see if I can find a link and post it here so we have decent relevant information on the topic of the gun. I would suspect based on the articles I’ve read on the AH that a decently heavy pull would cause more interaction with a gun that is decently hold sensitive would cause an accuracy issue coupled with the weight and cocking effort it wouldn’t be hard for a fatigued shooter to lose accuracy in a long group based on a hefty pull.

    • Michael Benner Says:

      http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=55718.0

      If you read the post BB this guy had an similar issue as yourself the pull weight was indeed affecting his grouping he explains in length how he remedies this problem hopefully it helps.

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Michael,

        That person, DMoneyTT, has promised to write a guest blog for us that will have photos of what he did. I think that is needed, because the description isn’t that clear.

        B.B.

        • Michael Benner Says:

          BB, ill be home in a half hour and am gonna preform some surgery on the trigger group I’ll take pictures and pat the results here but not having shot the gun I’m going to run pellets through first. hopefully he can clarify soon there is a video on YouTube on adjusting and polishing the group so maybe I’ll give that a once over as well. I’ll take pictures of everything I see and post them online as well as try to give an accurate description as to what I polished and where.

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    Triggers do make a difference. I can’t stand a heavy trigger. I would say the groups will tighten up better with a lighter trigger.

    The last group you fired in the last picture seems to me that it is because the gun is getting pulled to the side when you shoot.

    Have you tried putting your thumb behind the trigger guard and squeeze the trigger with your finger. I also put my hand on the bag and then wrest the gun in my hand with a fair amount of pressure from my finger and thumb to stabilize the gun from side to side movement. It seems to help when I have a heavy trigger that wont cooperate.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      GF1,

      No, I haven’t tried that trigger method yet. But I’m going to remove the scope and try shooting with just the open sights, to see if perhaps that will make a difference. I will report what happens, either way.

      B.B.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        Sounds good. And you know it looks like the gun is making two groups when you shoot.

        Is it throwing those shots that look like flyer’s at the last 4 shots you took (the last picture again) or are they random through out the 10 shots? If they are at the end. Then fatigue would be part of it I guess. Especially if your fighting a hard trigger.

      • Bradly Says:

        B.B. did you ever get around to trying it with the open sights?

    • RidgeRunner Says:

      My ideal trigger is a very light, very short first stage, just enough to let my finger know it is there, followed by a very crisp let off of a few ounces with almost no over travel.

      Having said that, I find the trigger on my BSA quite nice once I get used to it. It is an adjustable engagement single stage that is very heavy. I have it adjusted to where it is safely engaged, but there is no noticable creep. It breaks loose real nice.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        RR
        You just described the trigger on my Crosman 1720T.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          This is the part of the statement that describes my 1720T trigger.

          “My ideal trigger is a very light, very short first stage, just enough to let my finger know it is there, followed by a very crisp let off of a few ounces with almost no over travel”

          And I don’t mind a single stage trigger if it isn’t heavy. Heavy s–ks. Sorry just me.

  • Tim Says:

    Thought the parallax was adjustable to 3 yards, not 10. Or did I get lucky with mine?

  • Michael Benner Says:

    Ok so after ripping the gun from the action things were fairly straight forward the only two parts that should need any real attention are the sear ( its an extremely rough mill compared to the other parts in the group) and the adjustment screw ( which is extremely sharp ) my pictures coupled with those of which I found in a Yahoo group should be enough, that being said I am far from an expert ive polished one other trigger which was an old Chinese under lever oddly enough to my unexperienced eye id say the old under levers mill work exceeds the quality off the sear on the octane. Links to follow soon. One warning I have would be too keep the trigger group pointed vertically to keep the pounds from failing. My result was the gun going from a 10lb too a very light and crisp 2.8 pull.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Michael,

      If the machining is as rough as you say, they could have used a wire EDM to cut them out. They leave rough edges if you force the work through too fast.

      B.B.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        We had a EDM at work. They would be awfull slow making production parts.

        I would think they would profile the parts out on a verticle CNC. or stamp them out on a punch press.

    • Ben Says:

      Pay the most attention to rounding out and smoothing the adjustment screw and surfacing the point where it contacts the trigger group. That’s quick and it’s where you’ll notice most of your improvement. Also plan on doing this every couple thousand shots. The sear is rough and can be improved with some elbow grease unduobtebly. The pull from your finger has gained alot of mechanical advantage by the time it reaches the sear, youd be surpriswed what you can get away with there. Where that bugger of a screw engages is a different story.

      • DMoneyTT Says:

        Well put, Ben. After tearing apart my trigger group I was shocked to find that pointed screw-tip galling deeply into the lever beneath it. Umarex would sell a LOT more of these rifles if they would just replace that sharp screw with a regular grub screw or a ball-tipped screw. It’s an easy fix for us, but shouldn’t take too much on their end. In all other regards I’m fairly impressed with the design and the decent tolerances obtained for such a cheap and mass-produced rifle. Other than some polishing, there really wasn’t a lot that the trigger group needed. It was certainly crisp and relatively creep-free right out of the box.

        • Ben Says:

          I just had to polish the contanct point of that blasted screw again. I recal you mentioning that you had a solution. My best friend in the world comes from a family of uber roller chair geeks. They’re geniuses and they have a state of the art fab shop. Send me a rough blue print of your fix. If I’m successful, at the very least I’ll have a couple extra made and I’ll send you one. After this last polish, the trigger is fantastic! The rest of the group really worked itself in and smoothed out dramatically. I just counted the empty tins yesterday and it’s about 5000 shots in.

          • B.B. Pelletier Says:

            Ben,

            If you had to do it again, the hardness shell has been penetrated and the screw tip is going to wear regularly until you harden it again.

            B.B.

            • DMoneyTT Says:

              I’m surprised that the screw tip needed polishing. I kind of figured it would flatten/file itself to the matching surface and still move pretty easily. You could always replace the screw with a hardened (or stainless) screw of the same size, but with a more appropriate tip on it, like a sheet metal screw or similar. I haven’t fired as many pellets as you since my trigger job, so I can’t really say how mine has been handling the stress. I am more worried about the lever that the screw contacts, since it cannot be as easily replaced. If this lever is case hardened, it is not terribly effective, and the polishing/galling would remove what little is there to start with. If your lever is wearing, I would try to re-harden it if possible. Without knowing the carbon content it is unclear how well this would work, but the easiest method for case hardening low carbon metals is to repeatedly get them glowing cherry hot and then quenching them in a high carbon environment like motor oil. An acetaline torch will definitely get it hot enough. A propane torch will get hot enough, but it may take a while. There are also case hardening materials used to help with the process that are available at welding supply shops.

  • Dallas Smeed Says:

    I have been considering a gas ram .22 breakbarrel for a while now, and found your comments on the Octane interesting. To tell the truth, I was getting a little tired of hitting a squirrel with a .177, and having up run the tree chittering the squirrel’s equivalent of “sticks and stone may hurt my bones…… When Pyramyd offered a Christmas special on the Octane for under $190.00 , I ordered one. After reading your blog, I carefully tightened up all the screws and cleaned the barrel. I had to cock the gun to clean it and when I fired the gun after cleaning, I was alarmed at the loudness. Not wanting to scare the neighbors, I rented time at a local range to sight in the scope. I could not get the scope to lock in. Toward the end of an hour of shooting ( and having to retighten the scope mounts several times) the scope seemed to lost the ability to focus. I left the range pretty disappointed in my new toy. The next morning I tried the 10 foot method mentioned in the Pyramyd Academy piece on sighting in a scope. On the fourth shot, the reticle snapped, leaving the crosshairs looking like the burnt out filament in a light bulb.
    I have since purchased another scope and will try again.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Dallas,

      Welcome to the blog!

      I’m sorry to hear about your scope problems, but I’m sure Pyramyd Air will make it good for you under warrantee.

      Please keep us updated on the progress of your rifle.

      Merry Christmas,

      B.B.

      • DMoneyTT Says:

        My scope crosshairs started to spin within the scope after about 600 shots. Umarex offered me a replacement with no hassle, but I opened up the scope and loc-tited the crosshair insert in place. Worked fine after that, though I have since put it on my super tricked-out Daisy 880 and put a Bushnell Sportsman 4-12×40 on the Octane. Had a Bushnell Elite 5-15×40 on the Octane for a while. It has great glass, but my groups haven’t changed and the Sportsman is performing well. I felt a bit odd having a scope on my air rifle that is worth significantly more than the gun, though I wish this was always the case.

  • Michael Benner Says:

    Ok first things first to remove the action from the stock you need to remove 3 screws two at the the cocking arm one at the base of the trigger group flip the gun with the trigger group facing vertically and remove the action from the stock. Below is a link of what you’ll see one the stock is removed.

    http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w599/michael_benner1/Mobile%20Uploads/

    Next what I did is remove all the pins from front to back 8 pins in total rear most being the one eclipped on either end take note as to what goes where so things go easier on reassembly.

    The two parts that need the most attention are the sear and the trigger adjustment screw pictured below with red arrows pointing to where I polished

    http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w599/michael_benner1/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-12-23-17-46-37_zps18dcab35.png

    ( you can see here the rough milling on the sear the goal isn’t to take to much just enough to much and you’ll need a new sear so remember less can be more )

    http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w599/michael_benner1/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-12-23-17-46-58_zps2f41494c.png

    ( Here you can see the trigger adjustment screw and how sharp it is I believe this is where the extra trigger weight is coming from )

    In the confusion of putting the gun back together I totally forgot to get a picture of the polished sear but I did get one of the adjustment screw which is below

    http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w599/michael_benner1/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-12-23-17-42-28_zps2c28a3b7.png

    ( here you can see how much I rounded the adjustment screw)

    As you reassemble remember to use your preferred lube to lube all of your parts for your benefit I’ve included pictures of the pieces how they fit in the housing just incase you didn’t take good enough notice and need a little help you should be able to see them all under the photobucket account linked for the rest of the photos

    • Michael Benner Says:

      I forgot to mention remember to make sure the gun is uncocked and unloaded

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Michael,

      Thank you for those pictures and for your descriptions. After looking at the sear I can say I believe it was wire EDM’ed. That means the metal has been case-hardened, so you need to do very little smoothing. All sears are going to need this treatment.

      Merry Christmas,

      B.B.

      • Michael Benner Says:

        BB,

        So based on the fact that the sear is hardened and doesn’t need polishing its safe to assume the the adjustment screw being rounded is what is causes a dramatic lightening of the trigger pull because if that’s the case you could just back the screw out round it and reinstall with similar results, the only other thing attributing to the pull lightening could be the lube, I would be interested to see if just rounding the screw would work. it would make this trigger easy enough to crisp and lighten up for someone not all that handy.

        Merry Christmas to Edith and yourself

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Which screw are you talking about rounding?

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            Sorry I know what you mean now. Yes that would help. But if you go to far it may get touchy on the adjustment. Will be hard to control.

            • Michael Benner Says:

              If you look at the pictures I posted links to you’ll see I took a decent bit from the screw it lightened the pull considerably 10lbs down just under 3 it still adjust rather smoothly and if I tinkered with it id bet I could get the trigger down closer to 2 but 3 lbs is comfortable. As far as the sear polishing I did use a file but knocked down very little and there its still plenty of positive engagement with the piston, I took not much more than to strip the rough edges from the engagement face itself . The reason I ask is the last paragraph of the article I think the average Joe could handle rounding the edge of a screw that is accessible without removing the action and dealing with the trigger group, and as I mentioned before replacing the breach seal if needed

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                I believe you are right about rounding the screw.

                Radius just the outer edges of the screw and leave a little flat in the middle and you will be able to feel the trigger a little better when it gets ready to release.

                • Ben Says:

                  Even with the screw rounded, the point where it contacts the trigger group needs periodic smoothing and polishing. It’s very soft low quality Chinese metal and a divot forms, Mine seems to need it every couple thousand shots.

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Michael,

          I’ll try that first.

          B.B.

          • Michael Benner Says:

            BB,
            I look forward to your results and am glad to have provided you with some off the info needed. You and pyramidair solidified my choice in staying with springer for now. Im only 23 and I learned on an old Chinese springer which I just rebuilt for my father so along with nostalgia you guys provided the knowledge and confidence to attempt the repairs and deliver into one of my newest rifles so I thank you and look forward to being a big part of the community

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              Michael,

              You are 23 and an airgunner already? You have a very long and productive life ahead of you!

              Nothing wrong with a springer. I have them and love them, but only the accurate ones.

              B.B.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        We made form and shave tools for the Acme Screw machines at work with the EDM we had.

        We never had any finish that bad come off the EDM. It would take 8 to 10 hours sometimes to make one tool depending on how complex it was. Probably like you said they were pushing it to make the sears which are pretty simple.

        And if it is only case hardened depending on how good a job they did hardening the sears you have to watch so you don’t file to much and get into the softer metal. You will have a useless trigger pretty quick if you get the soft metal.
        I myself use a buffing wheel on a bench grinder. (very lightly) I only use a file to knock off sharp corners if needed. Or a round file to deburr holes.

        But I guess you wont be able to mess with the trigger will you BB? Its a test gun that you have to send back right? I would like to know the difference it makes on your gun before and after if you was to mess with the trigger.

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          GF1,

          What they do is put 12 plates of steel together and then cut parts. It may take 18-24 hours to cut all the parts in a 12-inch by 12-inch by one inch sandwich, but they will get a couple hundred parts.

          I say they are case-hardened because they use cheap low-cabon steel (1015 or something), and it can only be case hardened.

          B.B.

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            Yep we have stacked plates to make multiple parts also on the EDM’s and CNC’s and for that fact and on the Bridgeports also. But there is more chance of the wire breaking because of the interrupted cut. But I guess that’s there way of keeping the cost down I guess.

            And its funny you say 1015 we make parts for the adjustable seat tracks for Lear. 1015 is a little hard to cut. We make the same parts out of 12L14 and tools will last twice as long. Notice the L in the description that means it has lead in it. Easier to machine. And alot better finish.

            So if they make the sears out of 1015 that should be pretty durable and that would explain the rougher finish of the sear.

  • Mike Says:

    I was sad to hear the Mikhail Kalashnikov has died. I certainly respect his ability as a firearms designer. My condolences to his family.

    “When western civilization melts down, I want a AK-47.”

    Mike

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    After all of this it will be interesting to see what actualy makes the gun shoot better.

    Sure a lot of stuff going on to get this gun to shoot.

    • Ben Says:

      I had a hard time getting accuracy with a scope as well. For me it all came down to the stock, mainly comb height. I’m currently running a scope with low rings and a “monte carlo check piece I spent way to much time shaping out of a scrap of fir hand rail and bolting on. Also got some grip technique and theory that I would like to run by some more experienced shooters. But I’m tired and it’s a little in depth and I already typed it once hit a wrong button and lost it. I’ll try tomorrow. This gun is accurate and I own guns that are half minute of angle accurate and don’t use the term liberally.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        Ben this is exactly what I’m talking about.

        “Even with the screw rounded, the point where it contacts the trigger group needs periodic smoothing and polishing. It’s very soft low quality Chinese metal and a divot forms, Mine seems to need it every couple thousand shots”

        This should not have to happen to shoot a gun. Anybody can perform a trick. But how long will the magic last.

        I ain’t saying anything bad about what you say or anybody else says about the trigger. All the things said could help. But sometimes you just cant fix wrong. Sorry…..

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        And please tell me know about what you done to the stock and the technique you use. Sounds to me like you put some old school tech in your gun.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Here I go again.

          “And please tell me know about what you done to the stock”

          How about this. And please tell me (now) about what you done to the stock ….

          • Ben Says:

            file:///G:/my_pictures/1227130040.jpgfile:///G:/my_pictures/1227130040a.jpgfile:///G:/my_pictures/1227130041a.jpgfile:///G:/my_pictures/1227130218.jpg Here’s the pictures of my rigged up stock. It’s not pretty. The only thing I’m proud of is recessing two Allan wrenches into it. I live in Alaska and in the bush iron sights are great to have when Murphy’s law prevails. A remove the wing nut, grab the allen, remove scope. Also I included a picture of my low mounts and ground weaver base. I am currently co witnessing pretty bad but I have plans for a rear peep set lower than the factory sights. I’ll cut and sand the front post soon.

  • Ben Says:

    I just started shooting pellets a couple months ago and through a few turns of blind luck, I’ve got a rifle that any body that loves to shoot would love to shoot. Don’t put your thumb over the stock. Use that thumb hole stock. Make a firm pocket in the crook of your thumb and middle and ring fingers, let your pinky hang loose. Grip it much like you would grip the riser on a bow, find the sweet spot on your off hand, for me it’s a few inches back from the slot in the underside of the stock and resting on the pad of the ball of my index finger(getting a stable open offhand was very difficult for me, I’m more than comfortable with a sling) Then get fine sights and a good cheek weld wow. The gun recoils strait back then strait forward and right at the end of the forward travel it drops down. The front heavy balance of the rifle makes it shoot like you wish a good target bow would. Also mine is .177 and it seems to be perfect for the barrel and the force pushing it through the twist.I can’t wait for a break in the cold weather. I only have sixty feet in my shop and I can’t find a small enough target to aim at.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Ben
      So yours is a .177 cal. gun. Maybe that caliber works out better with the combination of the backwards gas spring for some reason also. And heck 60 feet is a good distance to shoot at.

      So your shooting the gun standing up then it sounds like. If so hitting small targets with your gun at that distance is pretty good. What type of things are you shooting at?

  • Ben Says:

    And Gunfun 1, I’ll get you a picture of my wood check pad. Also I have been shooting JSB heavy’s seated deep to stay subsonic, recently I’ve been also shooting the JSB monsters, they also are pinpoint accurate but land almost 1/2 left of the heavys. And I believe they are a little more forgiving. This brings me to my questions. If it’s the same piston transferring the same amount of energy, does it compress slower in the .177. If so can restrict or open up air flow in a springer to slow or speed up the oiston? I like to reload and it I would like experimenting. I’m going to go shoot some lead.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Good I would like to see the gun.
      And I think the heavy pellets do make a difference. But what do you mean by restricting air flow? I think I know what you mean. But tell me when you get a chance ok.

      • Ben Says:

        It looks like my attempt with the pictures failed. Oh well, I have to bed a stock for a good friend soon and plan on dying leftover accraglass and making it look cool anyhow. I’ll post a picture of my finished product then. I’m a roller chair shop geek but about as computer illiterate as your likely to find.8

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Ben
          I’m not good with this computer stuff either.
          You did try photobucket? I would try to explain but I will probably mess up and forget a step without actually seeing it and doing it. Knowing me. Sorry.

          And what kind of work do you do? Accraglass? Do you mean acrylic glass or something?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Basically I’m curious about the ballistics of .177 and .22 in gas piston( shot my son’s spring piston a few months ago, couldn’t put it down and couldn’t sleep with a raging carpal tunnel). I’m wondering if and or how different calibers or even different pellets affects the stroke of the piston. Also did you understand what I was describing about the hold it wants firm Resistance in your firing hand against the recoil. Combined with the front heavy balance and good amount of weight it shoots great and consistent like this. I have another cheap break barrel here, my sons Crosman Optimus. and that gun shoots completely different. That seems to like as light of a grip as possible and jumps all over when you shoot. Try what that hold on the Octane. If you get right, it’ll seem like a lot less recoil both from your eyes and your shoulder.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Ben did you sign in as Anonymous?

      Anyway yes I think the gun needs more attention on stabilizing the side to side hold for some reason.

      And yes on a spring gun or gas spring gun I would think that caliber size, fit of pellet and weight of pellet would all play a part in how the piston transfers the air to make the pellet move. Especially if they use the same nitro spring for the different calibers. Works a little different on pump, pcp and Co2 guns. That’s stored (energy/air) that the valve releases.

      So hmm maybe that’s part of why some spring and gas spring guns have different characteristics when they shoot. All that definitely makes a difference when I have shot the pump, pcp and Co2 guns.

  • Ben Says:

    Good morning, I guess I forgot my name on the last one. I can’t get the physics of the gas piston off my mind. Also my groups opened up quite a bit last night. I assume it had something to do with all the trim and railing material I lacquered in my shop yesterday. It’s hard to shoot strait with blurry vision and a light head. I’m taking my Octane outside today in the cold. I don’t believe the marketing that cold weather doesn’t affect them. I’ll post pictures of my stock(it’s not some pretty custom job but it’s functional) and anything else interesting while I’m at it.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Ben,

      That isn’t “marketing.” OI have been testing airguns with gas springs for 15 years and they really do perform much better in the cold than steel spring guns.

      B.B.

      • Ben Says:

        I’m inclined to believe you. The gun shot just fine. It seemed to handle the cold better than I did. I just take any information as suspect until I test it out.

    • Michael Benner Says:

      I had limited amount of space yesterday but I got outside at my parents and had my father and sisters try the gun at 15 yards. The gun grouped well 6 shot groups well inside of a dime. Another thing I was so amazed at odds how quiet it is. I swear this thing is quieter than my beeman and my venom along with going through a solid 3/4 Pine board behind my target. I did however change the scope on the gun for a leapers.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        Mike

        Did you notice yourself having to hold the gun any different when you shot it?

        • Michael Benner Says:

          I turned my hand to match the length of the rifle as opposed to letting the stock rest on my fingers I found it better supported the weight I also took advantage of the thumbhole instead of resting my finger in the groove along the back of the rifle it felt more stable that way. I found the shot cycle very smooth and quiet. It seems the biggest thing to over come with the octane especially for my sisters was the muzzle weight. I simply tried the AH in different positions until I found a rock solid position the supported the weight and provided the most stability

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            Mike

            So the muzzle of the gun is heavy. I think that’s a good thing especially with a springer/nitro gun. Maybe a little hard to hold the gun up for some people but I think that helps with the vertical pattern of groups. And then I guess the thumb hole is a good thing then. Sounds to me like it helped you stabilize the side to side movement.

            I hold my .25 Benjamin Nitro gun almost the same. The reason I’m talking about it is because it is a hard gun to control. And this is one of the ways I try on difficult guns.

            I use my thumb through the thumb hole to stabilize the side to side movement on my trigger hand. But I do it a little different on the other end. And this is standing up shooting not benching it the way I’m talking about. I put my thumb on one side the gun and fingers on the other side right in front of the trigger guard then I lock that arm into my rib cage and stomach. And I hold that hand with a little firm grip. That stabilizes the up and down movement of the gun while my thumb on the trigger hand stabilizes the gun side to side. Its the only way I have had any luck with the Benji.

            I tryed same thing on front hand but with the trigger hand I put my thumb behind the trigger guard and then pulled the trigger with my pointing finger and that helped. But not as good as the way I described above on this gun (notice I say on this gun). My Gamo Whisper is all about the artillery hold to make it shoot good. So you never know what each gun may want. Like my Diana 54 Air King. I don’t hardly have to even think about how I hold that gun when I shoot it. It just settles in naturally.

            • Michael Benner Says:

              Gun,
              Your right on with the side to side my sisters problem is more the fact that I have a utg cqb adjustable AO on the octane so the tube isn’t as long as some so they have to try to get a cheek weld closer to the end of the action it fits me naturally because I’m 6 ft tall with long arms they ended up turning the rifle more to get a clear sight picture which affected the grouping they were getting. I’m not experienced enough to say the gun is or isn’t hold sensitive but the lightend pull on the trigger helps when you have a 10lb gun with a 10lb pull you fight yourself the entire time you shoot it

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                Mike

                Both of my teenage daughters shoot. And yes that is a big problem for them also. The scope and length of pull on the stock. When they were younger I actually cut the back of the stock off on a later model plastic stock Crosman 760 so the length of pull was more comfortable for them. And when they started using a scope I had to use shorter scope rings so they could rest there cheek better for line of sight.

                And I agree about the trigger. If your fighting it you lost everything that you have learned practicing your hold of the gun. Like I said before heavy triggers s–k.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Ben
      I myself like the idea of a gas spring. I wish they were more smoother to shoot like some spring guns.

      My nitro piston .25 cal. Benjamin break barrel kicks more than I like. But I do like that you don’t have to worry about spring fatigue like a steel spring. Like they say you can leave them cocked as long as you want. Think about the gas struts that hold your hood or rear deck lid up on you car. Well dont compare to hard they do wear out on the cars.

      Depending on the area you live in the gas/nitro spring may just work better in the cold. That would be a good test to perform. See if the FPS goes up or down verses a cold nitro piston or a hot nitro piston.

  • Michael Benner Says:

    OK so had the octane out at a friends house for range for the first time, I was scoring roughly quarter sized groups at 20 to 25 yards. I think BB will do much better I chalk this up to the gun being more accurate than I am one thing I will warn you about with the octane is the front and rear sight are fragile!!!!! Not that it matters to me as I’ve said before I have a scope mounted. The rifle bag I had the gun in broke and the gun landed decently hard against the front sight and chipped the Mount holding it I know I’m sad about it to. That and somewhere along in the impact the rear sight wheel cracked no damage to the gun itself though it is my only complaint with this rifle thus far I hope everyone else that ordered the octane is enjoying as much as I am and I will be looking for BBS part 5. Hope everyone had a merry Christmas and has a healthy new year

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      It didn’t knock your scope out of adjustment then I guess. That’s what I’m always afraid will happen if I drop one.

      I haven’t dropped one yet. Knock on wood. But I had my Gamo Whisper propped up against the back door and my wife let the dog out. Well you know what happened. It slid down and hit the floor. Nothing broke and the scope was still on target when I shot it. So I guess I got lucky too. But I don’t prop guns up against the door no more. But I started to get mad but it was my own fault.

      And yep it will be interesting to see what happens when he shoots it open sights the next time around.

  • Luke Says:

    Hey guys. Just wondering, on Air gun reporters review, he had the gun pushing 24 to 25 fpe. In yours, only 21 with the best pellet. Any reason why there would be such a difference? I’m interested in buying a powerful knock down .22 and am deciding between this gun and the Hatsan 125. Which would be the better choice for hunting?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Luke,

      That difference can be a combination of different pellets used for the test and slightly different gas spring pressures.

      As for the difference between the Hatsan 125 and the Octane, I would get the Octane. Always best to hit what you are shooting at.

      B.B.

      • Luke Says:

        Thanks for the reply. The Hatsan is that inaccurate? Just because of the recoil? I was actually kind of leaning towards the Hatsan because of the extra fpe. Now Ive got something to think about…thanks for the advice! It is much appreciated!

  • Big Mike Says:

    I purchased this gun from Pyramyd after a lot of research. I was torn between this and spending the extra and going PCP, but decided a year or two with a good break barrel to hunt with my son would be fine.
    I ran into a lot of the same problems with one extra that I’ve never had before – reverse droop. My POI is as much as 18 inches high at 25 yds even with the scope dialed all the way down, which as we both know, isn’t good. Center adjustment and I’m over 2 feet. I’ve never shimmed a scope before and I’m not finding much of a selection for rings. Any advice?

    • DMoneyTT Says:

      I would use either shims made from aluminum cans or just add layers of black electrical tap on top of the bottom part of the rear scope ring, between it and the scope. I usually do this on any airgun before I even sight in the first shot because I know it will almost never shoot too high and if I want to get out to 100 yards it is a necessity. Also, the tighter (further clockwise) the elevation and windage knobs are, the tighter the springs are compressed within the scope, making a consistent point-of-impact more attainable, especially with a cheap scope and a heavy-recoiling rifle.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Big Mike,

      Shims can’t correct that much barrel deviation. Your rifle needs to go back to Pyramyd Air for a look.

      B.B.

      • Big Mike Says:

        Thanks for the reply, BB. I had already shimmed by the time I got your reply. It helped, but introduced other variables. In the process of doing this I found a significant barrel rise coming out of the receiver block. Far more than what is probably spec (4mm/9.5cm). Also have oil coming out the rear end. So, after several unsuccessful calls to Pyramyd (they’re swamped) I’ve sent them an email and hope to hear back soon.
        Thanks for the advise
        Big Mike… :-)

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Big Mike,

          Let’s stay on this, so nobody drops the ball. Pyramyd Air is also getting ready to go to the SHOT Show. There’s always something.

          B.B.

  • Steve Says:

    Hi Tom, I have two Octanes, one in .22 cal and another that I have converted to .25 cal. I had the same problem you experienced with the factory scopes and replaced them with Centerpoint mil-dot scopes and have been quite pleased with the results. I don’t do a lot of paper punching, primarily use my Octanes in the field, but my field experience has been good with both calibers. The bottom of a soda can at 50 yards lazered is not much of a challenge, and I have shot (mostly hits… :-) )out to a lazered 100 yards as well. I do find myself fighting the trigger and have to concentrate to make sure I do my part correctly. I think many, if not most of my misses are caused by the heavy trigger pull, but I plan to work on that in the near future.

    There is an active Yahoo UmarexOctane Group with a great deal of useful information about the gun, including many pictures, videos, links to parts suppliers, etc, and is open to all that would like to participate.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Steve,

      Thanks for this! I was leaning in this direction and you have pushed me over the edge.

      B.B.

      • Ben Says:

        Thank you for the all the information and testing. I was having a terrible time finding answers to a lot of airgun specific questions and I’m finding a wealth of them in your blog. Also recently I had to polish the point on my trigger group where the adjustment screw contacts for the third time for time. I now have seven tins of pellets threw my .177 Octane and after a quick polish the trigger is fantastic. It seems all the rest of the parts have smoothed out and it’s a whole new rifle to shoot. Infact it’s so light now my first few groups opened up considerably and I’m in need of some dillegent practice reworking my hold. 2

    • Ben Says:

      Thanks Steve, I’ve been shooting my .177 octane like crazy. I’m about to get a second one so friends can play too. I want to get the next one in .22 but was curious about accuracy. What size and brand pellets are you shooting? I’ll order some with the rifle.

      • Steve Says:

        Hi Ben, my go to pellet in .22 is CPHP. I also have good luck with Crosman Premiers,Crosman Field Pointed, and RWS Super H Point for close in small game. The Octane really likes the Crosman pellets, biggest problem is Crosman pellets are not terribly consistant. Chairgun tells me that JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Heavy would be a good one to try, as my .25 cal Octane seems to like the Jumbo Exact Kings pretty well. My .25 also likes H&N Field Target Trophy pellets and while I have not shot those in .22, I suspect that they will do well also. The lighter pellets shoot flatter but the heavier pellets retain more energy for downrange hunting. I don’t shoot a lot of paper, mostly hunting and field targets. I like the Diabolo style pellets the the best for accuracy and long range. I shoot a lot at 50-100 yards and those pellets allow me to hit the bottom of a soda can at 75-100 yards pretty consistantly.

        My Octanes have not proven to be particularly pellet sensitive. I do have a chrony and CPHP typically averages 20-30 fps faster than all others that I have tested. Crosman Premiers are probably the most accurate that I shoot in .22.

        • Ben Says:

          Thank you, I’ll order a box of premiers with the rifle I had good luck with the premier ultra magnums in .177 as well. And then I tried some JSB and just started stacking pellets through the same hole. I’m stuck indoors (thank god I have a shop with 60′ to play)so I’m currently hunting paper. I shoot about six days a week, breathing down helps me deal with stress, pain and keeps me centered. I fought the trigger as well, big-time, just round out the adjustment screw on the trigger and grind and polish the point it contacts on the trigger group and the rest will smooth out slowly as you get some rounds through it. Until it smooths out, I’d recommend double hearing protection(plugs and muffs better yet muffs with a radio) and finding a safe place where you can close your eyes and spend an evening shooting pellets blind and deaf just feel the trigger. Then spend your next session focusing on your sight, making sure it stays on target through your squeeze. Then when that’s ingrained into muscle memory watch your sight through the shot cycle and adjust your hold,when I’m stacking one hole groups the sight stays on target through the recoil, into the forward recoil then drops down when it hits the end of the forward recoil, it’s quick but you can see it.

  • Ben Says:

    If you read a post and I right and it sounds like I don’t know what I’m talking about. There’s a good chance that I don’t. Odds of me being completely lucient over the next year are slim. However A couple things about the Octane that I noticed and thouroly tested are, The sticky nature of the recoil pad, I love it shooting off handed and everywhere but the bench. There it makes settling in for the shot laborious and opens my groups slightly, I remedy this with tape, duct tape had was a little to slick and I currently uses blue masking tape. The second is both the JSB .177 heavys and monsters group fantastic I can’t pick a winner until I get outside and test down rang but I will say the lighter pellets are definetly more forgiving. Which leads me to my question HAS ANYBODY SHOT BOTH THE .177 AND THE .22!? Also this gun just keeps getting better. Both in accuracy and the trigger with the exeption of that blasted scew really worked itself in and smoothed out and lighten up almost to light. I just had to polish the screw contact point again. I also cleaned the barrel for the first time in long time. The night before last. And this lead to something that tested my hot temper to it’s limit. Yesterday I woke rested and feeling well(rare these day) I grabbed a quick bite and walked out to my shop. Both the rifle and myself were shooting well, very well. I spent all day tinkering and fine tuning precision. I went through about half a total of a half a tin combined between the two pellets I was shooting. I reached the enevetable point of fatigue where not only had accuracy suffered but I couldn’t prevent old bad habits from manifesting with all the concentration and discipline I could muster. So I went in the house had dinner, took a nap and then showered did some reading and when I was feeling rested even put on the best close I own for shooting a rifle. I walked out to the garage and knew I was going to shoot the best twelve shots I’ve ever fired with air. So I stick a fresh target in the trap carefully inspect and load my pellet pen. Check my rifle and screws, got in my chair and started breathing down. I settle in and settle in again for the first shot squeeze, and fire as close to perfect as I can ask. I take a bit to savor the feeling and log it into memry, then take the three breaths and settle into the second shot, and same thing. Perfect, as long as I don’t get impatient I know I cand o this twelve times(I even convince myself I’m going to shoot the perfect group I always dreamed of but will never be able to do) third shot, still relaxe my bench and chair are perfect. I’ve practiced everything dillegently and painstakingly from the ground up. Fatigue won’t be an issue I just need to stay focused. Third shot take my time squeeze perfect bam\ shot goes .5″ to 9 0′clock! What the @#$%^&*I’m out of ny chair and strom acroos my shop in anger and confusion in hind sight. The shot looked off as before I saw the point of impact and it was off but not that far off and not that direction. My brain is cranking ideas of what happened(did I forget to seat the pellet and smash the skirt? And then it dawns on me and I have to lagh almost histarically. I had been shooting a group of heavier pellets before my nap. I must not have finneshed the group. I inspect the pen and sure enough two pellets will hide behind the rubber by the tip. There’s no way I could get back mentally or physically where I was. I still shot a hell of the group but way below my expectations. Well I only have about three things going for me for at least a couple months, a pellet rifle, a computer and time. So bear with me if some days I sound like I’m on dope it’s because I am(it’s prescribed but what’s the difference it still makes me stupid). I’m here to kill time learn something that I haven’t been able to find solid help learning and when I’m rambling, I mean well, I’ve trained a couple people that are better bench rest shooters than I’ll ever be but now’s not the time and a computer is not my mode to do it. So take I wright as suspect and bear with me, none of my friends that shoot everything take my playing with “BB guns ” seriously, they won’t even try.

Leave a Reply


7 + = 10

NEW: Dan Wesson pellet revolvers!
Dan Wesson pellet revolvers

You wanted Dan Wesson revolvers that could shoot pellets, so we ordered them. Six-shot pellet shooters that so closely copy the firearm, you'll be stunned by the realism. An excellent way to hone trigger control and maintain accuracy with your firearm -- without range fees, expensive ammo or leaving your house. Pre-order yours now. Get it. Shoot it. Love it!

Ka-BOOM!
Airburst MegaBoom reactive targets

Airburst MegaBoom bases transform ordinary plastic soda & water bottles into booming targets that deliver up to 150 decibels when punctured. Get the base and charge your own plastic bottles or get the MegaBoom bottles filled with BoomDust that mists like smoke when the bottle is punctured. Low-pressure air pump and blast guard accessories also available. A real blast!

Archives