Daisy 880: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

 

Daisy 880
The Daisy 880 multi-pump is a classic.

This report addresses:

• Examining a new Daisy 880S sent from Daisy for this report.
• Examining the test data Daisy sent with the rifle for pellets and BBs.
• Running the same velocity test as I did for the first two 880s tested.
• Testing this new rifle with RWS Hobby pellets.
• Testing the new rifle with BBs.

This test is unprecedented. In Parts 1 and 2, I tested my own Daisy 880; and when it failed to achieve the velocities several readers felt it should, I ordered and tested a second brand-new 880 supplied by Pyramyd Air. That rifle also failed to live up to the velocity claims. When there was a question about whether all 880s are Freimarked (the letter “F” inside a pentagram is marked on the outside of a gun to indicate it develops no more than 7.5 joules of energy at the muzzle) for the German airgun market, I asked Joe Murfin, vice president of marketing at Daisy, to clarify this for us. He assured me that all 880s and their related variants are Freimarked, but that the mid-500 f.p.s. velocities I had gotten from both airguns was on the low side.

Joe had his Quality Assurance Manager inspect an 880 and send it to me for independent testing. This will be the third 880 I’ve tested in this series. Regardless of the outcome, it will be the last one. I tested both previous rifles with 7.9-grain Crosman Premier pellets, and I’ll also test this rifle in the same way. Naturally, Daisy didn’t test it with Crosman pellets, but they were kind enough to include a test sheet that unfortunately doesn’t specify which pellet they used. I will, therefore, test the rifle with Premiers, so we can compare it to the previous tests. Then, I’ll test with lightweight lead pellets. I’ll also test it with Daisy Premium Grade BBs, and we can compare my results with the velocities they got with what I must presume are also BBs.

Daosy 880 inspection sticker
The Daisy 880S I’m testing today came with this inspection sticker on the outside of the box.

The rifle they sent is actually an 880S model that comes with a 4X15 scope. After velocity testing and 10-meter accuracy testing with open sights, I’ll mount the scope and finish shooting at 25 yards. They sent test targets that I’ll show when we get to accuracy testing.

Test data submitted
Inside the box was a sheet with two velocity test strips. There is no indication of what pellets or BBs were used to create these test numbers, but I’ll assume the higher velocities were achieved with Daisy Premium Grade BBs, and the lower velocities were obtained with lightweight lead pellets. I have Daisy BBs, so I can test them in the rifle; but lacking knowledge of exactly which pellet was used, I used an RWS Hobby wadcutter. At 7 grains, it’s about as light as lead pellets get.

Daisy 880 velocity tapes
The two tapes Daisy sent with the rifle. On the left is what I presume to be the velocity with BBs and on the right I presume is the velocity with lead pellets.

To put numbers on this, Daisy got an average of 699 f.p.s. with steel BBs (with a 29 f.p.s. spread) and 681 f.p.s. with lead pellets (with a spread of 28 f.p.s.). We will keep that in mind as I test the rifle.

My velocity tests
I tested the 2 other rifles with 7.9-grain Crosman Premier domes, so it seems only reasonable to continue that test with this rifle.

Pumps   Velocity
2            381
3            457
4            510
5            547
6            576
7            603
8            609
9            622
10          656

If you compare this test to the two rifles that went before, you’ll see that this rifle is considerably more powerful. Also, there was no tapering off of the velocity as the pump strokes increased, the way there was with the last new rifle I tested. True, the amount of velocity increase wasn’t as great as the pump strokes increased, but it always went up.

Next, I tested the rifle with 10 shots on 10 pumps each. In other words — as fast as the rifle could go. Again, this was with Crosman Premier lite pellets. A few early shots went slower; but then the power ramped up, and the rifle gave me what seemed to be its best. The average velocity with the Premier lite pellet was 645 f.p.s. with a spread from 624 to 660 f.p.s. — a total of 36 f.p.s. That works out to 7.3 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

We can’t compare the velocity of this pellet against what Daisy has provided, because we don’t know the weight of the pellet they used. So, a second test was needed. This time, I used the RWS Hobby pellet that, at 7 grains, is about as light as .177-caliber lead pellets get. It should give numbers higher than the Premier.

Indeed it did! The average velocity with Hobbys was 680 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 671 to a high of 686 f.p.s., so just 15 f.p.s. And notice how close my numbers are to the Daisy tape on the right. I’m getting essentially the same results Daisy got.

On to BBs
With what I presume were BBs, Daisy got an average velocity of 699 f.p.s. and a spread of 29 f.p.s. I assume this is also with 10 pumps per shot.

I got an average of 676 f.p.s. with a spread that went from a low of 669 f.p.s. to a high of 680 f.p.s., so the total variation was only 11 f.p.s. The average seemed a bit slow in light of the Daisy numbers, so I oiled the felt washer behind the pump head with Crosman Pellgunoil. After that, I got 3 shots at 712, 710 and 708 f.p.s., respectively. I didn’t bother rerunning the test, as it seemed the rifle was performing up to snuff with the oil. That’s another reminder of just how important oil is to a multi-pump’s operation.

Evaluation thus far
Here we are on Part 4, and it normally takes only 2 parts to finish the velocity test of a gun. This has been an interesting exercise, and I know I’ve learned from doing it.

Next up will be the accuracy test with both pellets and BBs. I’ll test BBs at 15 feet and pellets at 10 meters — both using open sights. Following that, I’ll mount the scope that came with this rifle and back up to 25 yards for a final pellet test.

My thanks to Daisy and to Joe Murfin for providing the test rifle for today’s report. The results indicate this rifle is representative of the gun many of you have received. And, it represents the rifle everyone can expect to receive when they order a Daisy 880.

78 Responses to “Daisy 880: Part 4”

  • J. Says:

    Interesting results. I wonder why the big difference between the standard 880 and the 880S. (As far as I know the only difference is the addition of the scope.) Thanks for going above and beyond with the testing for the 880.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      J.,

      The scope is the only difference.

      B.B.

      • J. Says:

        That’s what I thought. I’m thinking that would mean that the variation we’ve seen is simply the difference between a low-end and high-end 880. Which brings us back to luck of the draw when it comes to getting a good one.

        Anyway… On to the accuracy tests. Any thoughts on what pellets you’re planning on using for the accuracy test? Also might the 880 be a good candidate for one of those high-end vs. low-end pellet tests you ran not too long ago? :)

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          J.,

          I thought about that, but I’m not sure what to do about it.

          No, I don’t think I want to use the 880 for that pellet test. I’m thinking of a Diana 34.

          B.B.

          • J. Says:

            OK. That makes sense about wanting to use a higher end gun for testing the premium vs. budget pellets.

            The reason I asked about was that since the 880 is a inexpensive gun (and since younger shooters probably make up a sizeable part of its market share) I thought it might be good to test it with an inexpensive pellet or two. (I’ve had reasonably good luck with the inexpensive Daisy and Crosman wadcutters in my 880 at 50 feet. But then again I’m not exactly the most demanding shooter when it comes to accuracy since I usually settle for minute of soda can.)

  • Ronald Fernandez Says:

    B.B., Vince, Caribbean Pete, and Rifled DNA,
    Thank you for your respective advice, instructions and suggestions regarding my Philippine-flooded Weihrauchs (HW35 & HW95). I have now set my sights on building a spring compressor and subsequently learning how to actually detail strip both air rifles.
    By the way, as a testament to the quality of the bluing that the Weihrauch factory applies to its airguns, allow me to report that the exterior blued finish of both of my air rifles held up quite well, after I flushed out all the moisture, silt and gunk (in my opinion, the flood mixture was more akin to sewage) with WD40 & CLP gun oil. And take note that I was able to clean the rifles, about twenty days after the flooding had occurred. Overall, there has been very minimal loss or fading in the bluing, with only a few tiny areas, particularly on the HW35, to which the bluing had been stripped off, exposing the bare gray carbon steel.
    -Ronald

  • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

    I’ll be watching this one closely. All this talk lately of the $100 PCP based on the 2100B and now some more data on 880 is making me want to take another good look at multi-pump guns. I have a 1377 I play around with sometimes, but I kind of miss having a rifle around. I cut my teeth in airgunning on a 760 pumpmaster like many kids did growing up in the 80′s so I’m just curious to see what the other guns I never got to try out are like.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Mitchell
      I don’t know if you are interested in this. But figured I would let you know.

      Its easy to make that 1377 into a nice little woods walker type rifle with parts you can get from Crosman. The biggest problem is it may take a few weeks for your parts to arrive because of some procedures they do to the barrels before they ship.

      I will tell you what I did and I can put a parts list together for you and post it if your interested.

      I get a .177 cal. or .22 cal. barrel and breech from the Discovery rifle depending on what caliber I want to make it. And get the front barrel support band from a Crosman 760. That will hold the barrel in place. I don’t use the little screw that takes a .050″ allen wrench that’s under the bolt in the disco breech. I leave it out. And I get the transfer port bushing from the Disco also.

      That takes care of the barrel and breech. Oh and now you can mount a scope on the gun because the breech is machined for scope rings. You know just like the Discos .

      Then I buy the custom skeleton stock from Crosman. Its the one like they use on the Marauder pistol. Its the 1399 custom stock is what they call it. !399 is the part number of that stock.

      It turns out to be a real light weight little rifle and its just as accurate as a Disco but the feet per second is about a hundred or so less than the Disco if you pump it up to 10 pumps.

      PA sells the breech and the stock but you have to get the barrel and the band clamp and the transfer port bushing from Crosman. Or you can drill out the 1377 transfer port bushing and also the factory barrel band so the barrel will slip through. You need a drill that is a little over .435″ for the barrel to slip through the 1377 barrel band. And I think the diameter of the hole that’s in the 1377 transfer port is around .070″ if I remember right. You can leave it alone and it will just be a bit slower in feet per seconds.

      I will post the Crosman part numbers if you want.

      • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

        You know, I considered doing some of those upgrades you mentioned. A scoped woods walker type rifle on a 1377 chassis would be a whole heck of alot of fun. Everything I own is .177 anyways, only because I can’t afford more than one caliber and .177 does everything I need out of air guns. Basically I would be looking for something like the 2300S only multipump and with the skeleton stock you mentioned. I’d have my self contained lightwieght handy little carbine, and if it had a real nice barrel on it, it could be a serious tack driver. Would you happen to know if you can get lothar walther barrels to use on a 1377? I think I’m going to have to do some research now! Thanks for the excellent idea GF1…

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Mitchell
          I already did a 2300S with the Disco set up in 177. And I tryed the lothar walther barrel on the 1377.

          Best combination is what I talked about above with the Disco barrel. And the 177 version seems to be more accurate than the 22 Disco setup on the 1377. From my experience anyway. It will hold nice groups at 50 yards and closer. And I have shot RWS 8.3 Superdomes to JSB 10.3 grains in 177 and the gun loves them.

          I have the part numbers written down out in the garage. I will go get them and post them in a second.

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            Here is the part numbers.

            177 Disco barrel 1760SE-001
            177 breech assembly 1377SBPK

            22 Disco barrel 2260SE-001
            22 breech assembly 2240SBPK

            Crosman 760 barrel support 760D008
            screw that holds barrel 781A012

            custom shoulder stock 1399

            The transfer port sleeve/bushing is the same part number for the 1377, and 177 and 22 cal. Disco. So you can use the one that comes in the 1377. Or you can drill it out for some more air transfer. It not like worrying about maintaining shot count if you were to drill it out for a PCP gun. I think the biggest I went if I remember right was about .110″.

            Also here is the part number for the rubber gasket/seal that goes under the transfer port sleeve. Again it is the same for the 1377, and 177 and 22 Disco. 130-036 is that part number.

            Here is the breech assembly and 1399 shoulder stock that PA stocks.

            http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_1399_Custom_Shoulder_Stock_Fits_Many_Crosman_Pistols/198

            http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_177_Cal_Steel_Breech_Kit_Fits_1377_1740_1760_PC77_Air_Guns/4386

            http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_22_Cal_Steel_Breech_Kit_Fits_2240_2250_2260_2289_1322_Air_Guns/4387

            Hope that helps.

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              I forgot.
              The barrels if I remember right are around $30 and that barrel support clamp is like $8. The screw and gasket are like a buck a piece through Crosman. And I live in Illinois and have never had a problem getting any parts shipped to my house.

              • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

                Holy smokes GF1, you can’t ask for much more than that! I copied down your post and I’ll get the parts ordered when I can. I’ll be sure and drop you a note and let you know how I get on with my conversion. I have to say thanks for doing all the testing and leg-work, you just saved me a considerable amount of time tinkering and what not. I take it you have yours scoped since you are running the different breech? If so, what are you running? Once again, thanks big time for the help. A cool muzzle break would just be icing on the cake for a rig like this…

                • Gunfun1 Says:

                  Mitchell
                  I have played around with a bunch of different types of sights on it. Scopes, red dots, and now it has the See All Sight on it that BB and Edith ran across when they were at the SHOT show. He has done a blog about the sight also.

                  Here’s a link to that sight if you want to check it out.
                  http://www.seeallopensight.com/

                  Anyway glad you like the Disco barrel set up. And I will definitely be interested in what you think about yours after you make it.

            • Feinwerk Says:

              How do you order Crosman parts? I couldn’t find a place on the website. Do you just call the contact number on the website and ask for the parts dept?

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                Feinwerk
                I should of gave the the phone number.Wasn’t even thinking about it. But yep that’s exactly how to order.

                Here is there number. 1-800-724-7486

                And after they transfer you to parts the first thing the person will ask you is. Do you have part numbers. They usually wont look them up for you. So that’s important to tell them you do. And I usually tell them the total amount of parts I will be getting so they are ready for my list of parts when I start reading them off.

                Hope that helps.

      • Matt61 Says:

        What exactly does one do with a woods walker gun? Plink at targets of opportunity?

        You’re right that the main value of the Porsche 918 is the one-time driving experience. Over time, even this will become familiar, and you don’t need the other capabilities unless you are a professional driver. So not only are you paying $900,000 for one car, you are really paying for the one-time experience of driving it….

        Matt61

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Matt61
          The reason I call it a woods walker is because its a nice little light weight gun to carry for a long period of time. I haven’t weighed mine. But I would say that with the See All Sight it probably weighs in at around 4 pounds. And the gun is a bit smaller than my other rifles in length. So Its easier to maneuver walking through the woods. And the power supply is self contained. So you dont have to keep track of filling it all the time. That’s my definition anyway. Maybe somebody knows the true definition of a woods walker.

          And as far as the high performance electric/fuel hybrid cars go. I really don’t think it will be long before we start seeing more everyday lower cost production models being produced. Probably wont get the same performance of the Porsche that we have been talking about. But I believe that we will see more and more of them fairly soon.

  • Calin Brabandt Says:

    Thanks for the re-test, B.B.! It seems re-tests are often required for these Daisy guns. After reading your Powerline Model 35 blogs and several online user reviews, I was debating whether or not I should buy a Powerline 35 to replace my 8-year old daughter’s Buck, but I guess I got one of the good ones, because its velocity and accuracy are both good. After shortening the Powerline 35′s stock with my chop saw to better fit my daughter (I used the same fine tooth blade I use to shorten quality wood stocks but water cooled the plastic from a little spray bottle), the Powerline is actually turning out to be a better youth gun than the Buck. The Powerline is easier to charge and the sights are better for training a new shooter than the Buck. I also did some work and hardware store swapping on the trigger/valve springs. As you said in your 35 review, a 6+ pound trigger on such a light gun just doesn’t feel right. My daughter’s gun now breaks at 2 lbs – 9 oz and it has much more of a two-stage feel to it (trigger takeup, then valve spring), instead of its previous creepy feel with lots of stacking before the break. It turns out that there’s no reason (other than lawyers) that these guns can’t have fairly decent triggers.

    -Cal

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Calin
      Just did a little work on my 953 trigger. Same problem. Same results. Much nicer gun to shoot now.

      Also I took the plug out where they cross drill the transfer port and made the transfer port hole a little bigger. Well actually about .030″ bigger and made a .030″ bigger plug for the cross drilled hole.
      Yes the fps did increase I’m happy to say.

      And I did fit the striker spring to length when its relaxed and with a heavier spring. And also increased the front spring pressure a bit on the forward catch on the striker. And I put a bit heavier spring that holds the knock plunger to the seat on the pressure side of the valve. Got about 70 feet per second more out of the gun. Not much but just figured I play around with the gun a bit and see what it could do. I always mess with the Crosman/Benjamin guns so it was kind of fun to look inside unfamiliar territory if you know what I mean.

      But as they say with engines and race cars. The engine is just a air pump. The faster you get the air in and back out the the faster your going to go.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        And no I don’t hear any air leaking back through the compression tube. Just thought I should add that in. Well or anywhere else for that fact.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Cal,

      You have had some good luck with your daughter’s 35! As you know, my experience was a bit different.

      B.B.

  • Michael Says:

    B.B.,

    Thanks for this additional follow-up on the 880.

    I have two of ‘em and love them both. One is a classic with metal action and pump lever, and the other is about four years old. I like them because they are pretty accurate at the 10 meters to 25 yards I shoot them, and because they are the only multi-pumps I’ve encountered that’re almost effortless to pump, even the last few strokes. (They are kinda loud at 10 pumps, though.)

    I find it fascinating that an older one and a new off-the-shelf one performed similarly to each other for you, but then one that Daisy cherry-picked performed so much better than the other two. That makes me want to get the chrony out this summer and test my old one and newer one to see how they stack up.

    It also makes me wonder if anyone who wants a new 880 ought to contact Daisy to have John Dalbiy pick it out and test it before he or she purchases it. I’m curious if they had to go through a bunch of them to find that particular hot one, or if they just grabbed one randomly and brought it up to snuff especially for you.

    Well, now I’m just being cynical! ;^)

    Michael

  • Pete Hallock Says:

    B.B. Thank for your continued testing of this classic Daisy 880. I guess it would be a good idea to pay Pyramyd Air the custom $10.00 to test my purchase. What do you think, would PA do it?
    Best wishes to you and Edith !
    Pete Hallock
    Orcutt, California

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Pete,

      I think they would do it, but I also think it would be a first.

      B.B.

    • StevenG Says:

      Why spend 20% of the purchase price on having that done?
      This is a $50 gun. That means this unit is a really good one and the other might have been a bad one. The average will be somewhere between them. For $50 there is not going to be much QA going on. If you are willing to spend more than $50, then do that on the gun not on making sure you get a good $50 gun.

      • Pete Hallock Says:

        Yes, I know it is a $50 Gun. But it is more than that when we add shipping. Besides, as these excellent Daisy 880 reports show, I can not call Daisy and have them pick one out for you or me.
        If Pyramyd Air is willing to do the $10.00 test, we will ( ‘we’ meaning PA ) will have a base line to work with Daisy. Ten dollars is zip compared to the fun we will all have. Right ?
        Thank you for your reply, SteveG!
        Pete

        • StevenG Says:

          http://www.pyramydair.com/service-popup/G/4940/402/S/10_for_10_Test/1

          That includes testing the gun for 10 shots and making sure it works. I am not knocking the service, I am 100% sure it has saved many headaches and returns, however if they pull an 880 and get 600 fps for 10 shots at 10 pumps I think they would mail it out. We have already seen that this is not out of the ordinary for this air rifle.

          What you want is them to go through several guns and cherry pick one, I don’t think they offer that service.

          • Pete Hallock Says:

            No. Pay my $10.00 and cancel the order. A shot across the bow…sort off. Lol.
            Pete

            • StevenG Says:

              I don’t understand what you were trying to say.
              I am not trying to dissuade you from buying an 880, it is a fine gun for what it is. I just think your $10 is not going to ensure you get a cream of the crop unit. It will however ensure you get a functional one.

      • Calin Brabandt Says:

        I agree that the test service is a lot of money when compared to the price of the gun, but I personally think PA’s “10-for-$10 Test” would probably be worth it with these Daisy Powerline guns, if it would keep a lemon from shipping. On the other hand, I see no promise of an accuracy check in PA’s description of the service. Only the chronograph tape is delivered to the customer with the gun and the only listed test items that gate shipment of a multi-pump pneumatic or springer are:

        Confirm that the gun cocks reliably for all shots.
        Verify that the trigger functions reliably for all shots.

        Given the following note, I’m concerned that a “lemon” might still be shipped:

        *It’s normal for spring-powered airguns to have erratic velocities with the first 25-150 shots because factory lubricants burn off and cause a dieseling effect inside the compression chamber.”

        Even though I got lucky and received a good Powerline 35, I was worried about the prospect of returning the product and I would have been interested a service that included assurances that the accuracy and velocity problems, which B.B. and others have witnessed, would be caught by the test.

        In many ways, there aren’t any good low-priced options that compare to these Daisy guns for youths. The cost of the PA service is like the trigger and stock job on my Daughter’s Powerline 35. I probably have something like two hours invested in the project (though I enjoyed doing it) and I haven’t even designed and 3D-printed a new nylon butt pad yet. It doesn’t pencil-out to spend two hours of time making the gun function as I desire, except I don’t think there is another gun that would work as well for my daughter. Her next gun will probably be a Venturi Bronco, once she’s strong enough to handle the 18 lb. cocking effort. Even cocking her Buck was too much for her.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Here is something to remember.

          PA is probably one of the better places to purchase anything. They have a excellent return policy. Without me stating all the words in the policy it is something that people should read and know.

  • StevenG Says:

    This sounds like Daisy sent you a ringer.
    Picking up a random one at a big box store to test would be a lot more fair.

    • kevin Says:

      StevenG,

      You’re kidding right?

      Linked to this series was B.B.’s old 880, a new, randomly picked 880 and now this 3rd 880 that was picked by Daisy. That’s a decent sample for testing this model wouldn’t you agree?

      kevin

      • StevenG Says:

        That is why I said it sounds like a ringer. Both the old one and his randomly picked one where not as good. With two samples showing much lower velocities we can surely assume that this unit is the one performing better than average and not that the others are worse than the average.

        I am not even suggesting anything nefarious, simply that daisy double checked to make sure the unit they sent BB was within tolerances and normally their QA is not that thorough. Meaning for the average buyer they might well be more likely to receive a lower performing unit.

        • kevin Says:

          StevenG,

          IMHO, we don’t have enough information to draw the conclusion that 880 in todays article “is the one performing better than average and not that the others are worse than the average.”

          Considering that B.B.’s 14 year old 880 shot cpl’s at 616 fps and this “hand picked” 880 shot cpl’s at 656 fps I would say this indicates that the first new 880 that B.B. was sent was an underperformer and the anomaly.

          kevin

          • StevenG Says:

            That’s a 50 fps difference even between those two.
            if you think they did not select a better performing unit before mailing it out, I have a bridge in NYC to sell you and some oceanfront property in Arizona.

            We have 3 samples, and only one of them makes the claimed speed. That says something.

            Sure the only way to really know would be to buy a great many at various retailers and compare, that is not practical. What we can for 100% sure say is the VP of Marketing would never send out a gun for a review without making sure it the cream of the crop.

            That means while this is fine writing as usual from BB, we cannot pretend this is a review of the kind of gun you will find at Walmart. This can only be a review of cherry picked and possibly hand tuned units coming from the VP of Marketing. I don’t usually buy airguns that way, maybe you do.

            • kevin Says:

              StevenG,

              It’s actually a 40 fps difference between the two guns. Less than 7% difference.

              You’re also incorrect that only one of the 3 guns made the velocity claimed by the manufacturer (715 fps per the owners manual with pellets) since B.B.’s 14 year old 880 went 722 fps with Crosman Super Sonic pellets.

              As we know, velocity claims are usually obtained using lightweight pellets and velocity claims are about marketing. What’s more relevant to me is what does the most accurate pellet in the gun weigh. That’s the primary reason I read this blog since manufacturers will never provide us with that kind of testing information.

              I’m a fan of the Beeman R7/Weihrauch HW30. Well made German gun. I’ve introduced a lot of folks to the world of airgunning. Many of these newbie’s airgunners are powderburner buddies of mine and asked what would be a good, self contained, accurate, backyard shooter with a great trigger. I usually recommend the R7/HW30. I’ve probably had a dozen or more R7/HW30′s run through my hands since I offer to buy the guns for them and get them set up with a scope, adjust the trigger, do pellet testing, etc.

              The velocity spreads of these dozen or so R7′s/HW30′s I’ve had, using the same pellet (usually cpl’s work best) exceeded 7%. Point is that in mass production, even quality mass production like you see from Weihrauch, you have tolerances that will result in a velocity variation of more than 7%. First hand fact.

              Don’t need anymore beachfront property in Arizona. Tell me about your bridge in NYC.

              kevin

  • StevenG Says:

    That is why I said it sounds like a ringer. Both the old one and his randomly picked one where not as good. With two samples showing much lower velocities we can surely assume that this unit is the one performing better than average and not that the others are worse than the average.

    I am not even suggesting anything nefarious, simply that daisy double checked to make sure the unit they sent BB was within tolerances and normally their QA is not that thorough. Meaning for the average buyer they might well be more likely to receive a lower performing unit.

  • Rob Says:

    The lesson is to NEVER buy your 50 dollar airguns from the big box stores.

    Buy them Directly manufacturer and their the Vice President in charge of Marketing and the Quality Assurance Manager.

    PA is going to have to step up its game to keep up with Daisys level of service.

    Seriously, a bunch of hoo-haw in terms of precedent. Now, every time some company promises light speed from their airgun, people are going to expect BB to let the company cherry pick a gun that is nuclear powered.

    • StevenG Says:

      I could not agree with you more. This can’t be considered any real review of a normal 880. This was a cherry picked one and we all know it.

  • Mike` Says:

    At the end of the day, a $50.00 airgun is just that. Unless it’s a used Diana 52 that a gun shop thinks is junk! :)

    Mike

  • springman2381 Says:

    Hi BB,
    In one of the debates about the first 2 guns, and their performance levels, it was contemplated a bit, about possibly doing a step by step blog piece showing how to go about re-sealing one of these very expensive precision, world class, Olympic match rifles (the daisy 880). I have a couple, you have a couple, my neighbor has one, and i bet several other blog readers have a few 880/922 rifles that need some new seals. And if you run a few searches, on the search engine of your choice, on the matter, there is virtually No info on how to go about doing so on one of these fine rifles. I was only even able to find one set of disassembly instructions on the web and it was very poor, with pictures the size of a tic tac, and one of the steps including cleaning with wd 40, and I know that is wrong…. I might be able to figure it out, but a nice set of clear instructions would benefit me and probably hundreds of other air gun tinkerers for many years to come. Thanks for the great reviews bb.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    springman2381,

    I have been resisting this, hoping for a reader to step forward with a guest blog. I guess I did mention that I could reseal my 880 if necessary — but I really don’t want to do it.

    The issue is time. It takes me about 4 hours to write each normal day’s blog, plus I am responding to reader’s comments for another 3 hours. Add the articles and other stuff I do and the day gets long.

    Now throw in a disassembly and rebuild of a gun I don’t know, and the time to write triples. I have to stop and take all the pictures. Still, as you say, someone has to do it.

    If Mighty Mouse won’t swoop down to save the day I guess I could do it. But there is still some time for a shy reader to step forth and reveal his 880 rebuilding skills. ;)

    B.B.

    • springman2381 Says:

      I’m sorry, lol… I wasn’t thinking about that. I totally understand. If I could find some instructions somewhere, i’d gladly take pics and write up a solid set of instructions, and report it back to you for the blog. It is right down my alley mechanically – but I’ve never been able to find a shred of info on the subject, which surprises me, because soooo many people own them, and i’m assuming that many of them need resealed. I mean your records show 2 out of 3 needed resealed lol, and the one that didn’t was possibly “cherry picked”, haha.

      • springman2381 Says:

        Someone will probably come forward, that is an 880 expert i’m sure, but if not – I am going to just dig into it.. and figure it out. I got 3 of them, 2 of which need resealed. Does someone sell a reseal kit for these that you know of?

        • kevin Says:

          springman2381,

          Jim Coplen (1 507 281 2314) sells kits for the older 880 (steel) and newer 880′s. He also sells parts for the 880. Most folks contact Daisy for a schematic of the 880 before they rebuild them. You might also ask Jim for suggestions on information that’s out there on rebuilding the 880.

          kevin

        • Robert from Arcade Says:

          As Kevin mentioned Jim Copland is the one to contact for parts for older 881′s and 880′s. If you call Daisy you can get the complete shot tube and valve assembly for the newer 880 guns. It was about 15 bucks total for a complete new power plant, plus shipping.FWIW, I have sucessfully installed one of these assemblies into my own 881 just to see if it would work.

    • Calin Brabandt Says:

      Haha–I’ve already done that math in my head, B.B. and I know this blog is a full-time job for you!

      Guest blog? I don’t have an 880 but I think my daughter’s 35 has the same basic powerplant. Too bad I didn’t do this when I had it apart for the trigger job! Still, I took the time to figure out how to take it apart (without schematics) and perhaps I could create a guest blog rather easily, if you think it would have value (Powerline users with a need to know). My daughter’s brand new gun doesn’t really need resealing. Can the seals be purchased from Daisy? If yes, I might be interested in doing it anyway.

      On the subject of another possible guest blog…I’ve been testing the penetration and expansion of .177 and .22 pellets shot into gelatin. Your experience with the Beeman Devastator piqued my interest and I’d like to measure the benefit of expanding pellets when shot from moderately powerful air rifles. (I’m using a .177 LGV Master and a .22 Diana 34.) So far, I’ve tested ten different pellets and have the penetration, expansion, and chrony data for all the shots (and the recovered pellets and calibration BB, of course). I plan to test a few more varieties of pellet samples and could take all the needed photos.

      My free time is very limited and I don’t know if (or which) of the above topics would be of maximum interest to readers.

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Cal,

        Pick one and make it the first of many! ;)

        B.B.

        • Calin Brabandt Says:

          I’d prefer to finish my gelatin testing first. I’ll take the photos during the next round of testing. Maybe springman2381 will do the 880 reseal guest blog. I’d be happy to answer any questions he might have about removal and replacement of all the parts.

    • Calin Brabandt Says:

      While I was composing my reply, I see Kevin posted the seal information and availability from Jim Coplen. I don’t know if Jim has seals for the 35, but I could call him.

      springman2381: I don’t know if the Powerline 35 is exactly like the 880 but I wrote up a quick list of the dis-assembly steps in an Amazon.com review. I would not say it’s comprehensive (as it would be if I did a guest blog here) and it lacks photos, but it might help you with your re-sealing project. The steps are the same ones you need to perform when replacing seals too. Sort the reviews with the newest first and you’ll see my review.

      BTW, I don’t write PA reviews anymore, because I once spent a great deal of time writing a review on a gun that I purchased from PA. It had been discontinued (I think I got the last one) and replaced by a “new” model that only differed from the old model in cosmetic markings. (I confirmed this with the manufacturer of the gun and I noted the cosmetic difference in my review.) Nevertheless, PA refused to publish my work and my efforts were wasted. I suspect my review was rejected because the editors want customers to believe that “new” models are, in fact, really NEW, instead of merely re-marked or cosmetically changed old models! My Amazon reviews are never rejected!

      • springman2381 Says:

        Ok, Calin I will check that out in a little bit here, and see how easily this rifle comes apart for me, and see about ordering the seal kit that “kevin” mentioned up above. I’m sure I can figure it out, I have disassembled one like it before, but it was slightly different model, and it was a loooong time ago. Nevertheless, I have walked my way through many airgun projects like this through the years, and shouldn’t have much of a problem with it..

        Also, Calin, about your review that didn’t get on the board at PA – Talk to BB’s wife about that, Depending on when this was, I think that she is the one who marks approval of the reviews on the PA site. I think I’ve read that here before right??? I may be mistaken.. if so guys, please correct me.

        • Calin Brabandt Says:

          springman2381:
          I don’t recall any real gotchas in taking the 35 apart, other than the spring and detent ball in the plastic safety actuator. Presumably the 880 will be similar. It’s best to make sure the safety stays in place in its plastic frame cover half or perhaps you’ll get a sproinggg…”Doh!”. I was very careful but I still managed to dislodge the safety on my last tear-down.

          I don’t know if you intend to do any trigger work but I did not remove the circlip on the air release/transfer valve (or whatever it’s called), because it looked like the circlip might not survive R&R, necessitating a search for a replacement if I removed it. Unless you are replacing this valve, you won’t need to remove the circlip either. I cut coils from its spring in situ, only a little at a time, checking the seating force between every trimming. The couple of coils or so that I cut from the valve spring in total still left a fair seating force between the valve and the seat (maybe half the original force) and it “balances” nicely with the the lighter replacement trigger spring, I also did not need to remove the trigger in order to remove the trigger spring and, ultimately, I replaced the trigger spring with a spring from the hardware store. Oh…one more thing–the barrel sleeve, compression cylinder, and action assembly was somewhat difficult to extract from the black sheet metal frame and barrel housing. It required a pretty good pull to the rear using pliers on my daughter’s 35. Thanks for the advice to talk to Edith about my gun review. I think I talked to Laura in the past, but might not be remembering her name correctly–it wasn’t Edith, however.

  • Bradly Says:

    B.B., Thank You for this report. You have shown more patience than most. No one can say you weren’t fair to Daisy. I’m glad to see this one turning in better #’s. I don’t current own a 880, but I’ve always liked them because they are so darn easy to pump compared to my Crossmans. Again, Thanks for going above and beyond! Bradly

  • Desertdweller Says:

    I appreciated this series of reports. The findings were, I think, fair and typical for this gun.

    The idea that Daisy would send a “ringer” does not sound right to me. I’m sure they made sure it worked, but selecting an unusually good sample sounds a little stretched to me.
    Come on, people, it’s a $50 gun. It isn’t supposed to last forever, or become a family heirloom.

    It’s an entry-level gun, or a first step up from a Red Ryder or 750. It’s a good gun at 25 yards. I wouldn’t want to use it to kill anything, it wasn’t designed for that. It is a good low-cost intro to multi-pump pneumatics. In combination with a low-priced springer, it can give a newcomer a taste of the two most common powerplants.

    It is also cheap and easy to repair. At the same time, it is cheap enough that it is practical to replace the whole gun rather than rebuild it. Daisy provides a very good level of parts and tech support if you choose to repair it.

    It is pneumatic, so it won’t eat scopes. The little 4×15 scope that comes with an 880S is serviceable and adequate at shorter ranges, and if you upgrade to the adjustable scope Daisy sells for $30, it should outlast the gun itself.

    It is what it is. If you do not expect more from it than it is designed to deliver, it is a very satisfactory gun.

    Les

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    I think one point people are missing is.

    You don’t think the other company’s out there are producing their cheap under 100 dollar guns and there isn’t variation in the fps of their guns they manufacture.

    Maybe Some body should go by all the different brand single and multi pump guns and do some chrony testing with the same pellet on all the guns tested. Oh wait a minute while your buying one of each you need two buy 2 more of each so we can compare them to BB’s test he has done.

    I wonder who and how that test will work out.

  • duskwight Says:

    B.B.

    Just found your pic from Toys That Shoot at Derrick’s blog. I must admit that you look really good and I hope feel OK.
    I hope in a few days I’ll be able to step up with a blog on shooting <12 ftlb PCP at 100 m in open air, prone – if the weather will be OK. If not – I will make an attempt on that long-promised magnification vs groups test indoors.

    duskwight

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      duskwight,

      100M on 12 foot-pounds sounds intriguing!

      Any time you are ready to write, I’ll take it. No hurry!

      B.B.

      • rob Says:

        Ive tried shooting at a 100 paces (never measured it off more precisely). That seems to be just out of my gun’s (or my) ability. I cant shoot regulargroups, but i have hit pop cans occasionally. Its a thrill. It would be cool if the blog had a place to post pictures of our best shots-with us being on the honor system of course.

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    Ed
    Back when I was a kid one of my buddies went up the road to have a BB gun war. And they had rules also were they were suppose to shoot and not shoot. He wasnt so lucky. He did loose a eye. And Im dead serious. Im not making it up.

    And Im sure you can make your own decisions of what to do or not to do.

    But I sure wouldnt teach or say anything about having BB gun wars to my kids or kids that I was teaching to shoot air guns. And I wouldnt teach them about using a gun on animals if I didnt want to dispatch them.

    Matter of fact if my kids belonged to a shooting club and a teacher said anything about what were talking about how to use a airgun. Me and that teacher or person would be having a talk.

    Sorry just my thoughts about guns and the way I was taught.

    And you can keep on doing whatever you think is right.

    Have fun shooting and be safe.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    So, here we are sitting in the living room, watching TV as I continue to work because I just don’t have enough hours in the day, and you guys have gone off the deep end and are talking about disciplining critters with guns — and bragging about how you’ve got good judgement to do so. Makes me wonder what good judgement means in your mind. I’ve removed that entire thread and trashed it.

    What part of the first rule of shooting is confusing you? “Do not point a gun at anything you don’t want to destroy.” It’s easy to understand.

    When commenting on the blog, this is how I think when I write. I suggest you do the same:

    I think of CowboyStar Dad. He’s got 2 young boys who like to shoot. For all I know, he allows his kids to read this blog and the comments. Even if he doesn’t, there are other dads who allow their children to read this blog because it’s a place to learn. They shouldn’t have to be concerned about people saying cruel things. Think about how you’d react if you had 2 young boys & someone started telling them about ignoring the basic rules of gun handling. Is that how you’d talk to your youngsters? I doubt it. Nor would you want someone else saying those things.

    I think of Desertdweller’s grandchildren. They’re engaged shooters, and Les has shared Pyramyd Air’s catalog with them. The blog’s URL is in that catalog. What if they came here and read about supposedly enlightened shooters who simply ignored the basic rules of shooting? Do you think Les would like it if you told his grandkids that it was okay to ignore the rules of gun handling?

    When kids see adults ignoring fundamental rules, they wonder which other rules can be tossed out the window. Things get dangerous after that.

    So, be on your best behavior. Act decent. Speak decently. Be responsible. Know that people are watching you to see how you act and what you say…and they will emulate you because they don’t know any better. Personally, I hope the kids who come here act more responsibly and considerately than what I’ve read in some of the comments I had to remove.

    Thank you for understanding. If I see someone repeatedly writing about disciplining animals by shooting at them, I will not think twice about banning them from the blog. In that regard, I am heartless.

    Edith

    • kevin Says:

      Safe and responsible handling of guns is paramount,is always endorsed and emphasized on this blog.

      It’s the number one reason I endorse and am very proud to be a part of this blog.

      The quality of information disseminated is second.

      Kevin

  • eric in ok Says:

    I resealed my 880 I have had since 12 that’s 38yrs ago I resealed,replaced buttstock some screws and barrel shroud and for 60dollars rebuilt gun I paid 25dollars for but ohh the memories. got the parts form man in ny think his name was Charles Beahling or something like that he had an add I haven’t seen in a while ill dig threw the gun room and see if I can find info he had parts and walked me thou the build over the phone while I in shop working on it very helpful I cronographed it afterward I got high 600s on 10 pumps been a few years can run a few string if anyone interested. I just wish I had crosman premiers when I was 12, Eric

  • Chris Says:

    I have 3 Daisy multi pumps, a 1975 all metal 880, a new all plastic 880 and a 822 all wood and metal. The 1975 gun is nice, but for having better materials, shoots no better than my new 880. I don’t know if I have a ringer but this thing is an absolute tack driver and packs quite a punch. I don’t have a chrony but based on previous experience I would guess it’s right around the 675-725 fps mark with 7.3 grain Crosman pellets. I love my 880, hope you got a good one this time around!!

  • DavidS Says:

    Yes that does seem a lot closer to what most of us get with our new Daisy 880′s. Nice review, and thank you for trying so hard to get it done.

    While you have not had the opportunity to find this out yet:
    If you get a dud (lower power/ poor accuracy) Daisy 880, or other Daisy gun you can exchange it through Daisy for no cost. There customer service is excellent.

  • DavidS Says:

    BB:
    Also I can not speak for any one outside of the small circle of people that I know personally that shoot the Daisy 880, though:
    We all will always tear down a new gun, check the seating of the pump tube, make sure that the end of the barrel fits snug in the end of the shroud (usually takes a bit of electric tape or plumbers tape), and just do an over all check to make sure that every thing is good before we ever shoot a single pellet (and we do NOT shoot BB’s).

    I mention this as it does make a difference in velocity and accuracy. For velocity the pump tube is often seated to far back from the factory, and getting it forward where it belongs makes a notable increase. For accuracy if the barrel does not fit snug in the shroud it will have a negative effect on POI vs POA, and most of our Daisy 880′s have come with a barrel that is a bit loose in the shroud.

    I do not know if this type of check is normal fro other Daisy 880 owners or not, though it is something to keep in mind.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      David,

      Wow! That seems like a lot of work for a new airgun, doesn’t it?

      B.B.

      • DavidS Says:

        It is a lot less work than I have to do with my Crosman guns.

      • DavidS Says:

        It is a matter of compensating for the small errors that are made in assembly at the factory. With the low cost AirGuns it is needed. Especially the Crosmam and Daisy guns.

        Though the Daisy guns do take a lot less work for a new gun than the Crosman guns.

    • J. Says:

      “I do not know if this type of check is normal fro other Daisy 880 owners or not, though it is something to keep in mind.”

      I really doubt that most people who buy a new Daisy 880 (or Crosman 760) are going to spend the time and effort to do what you described. I know I never have and I’ve owned several 880s and 760s. More likely most of them just rip open the packaging, scrounge up a couple of (most likely very cheap) pellets, and go shooting (probably at soda cans, eggs, etc…). And ironically since they probably don’t have chronographs, etc… they’re probably happier with their new guns than the people who test their guns to make sure they meet a certain spec.

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