Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE: Part 5

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Hatsan AT44S-10 Long QE
Hatsan’s AT44S-10 Long QE is packed with features for airgun hunters.

This report covers:

• Inconsistent shots?
• Most accurate pellet?
• 100 yards means scope adjustments
• JSB Exact Jumbo heavy pellets
• Crosman Premier pellets
• H&N Baracuda Green pellets
• Gamo Hunter pellets
• Call it a day
• Conclusions
• Pyramyd Air sale

Today is a test of the Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE at 100 yards. I don’t do this very often for many reasons; but when I find a PCP that’s exceptionally accurate at 50 yards, I feel it’s worth testing at the greater distance. It takes a perfect day for this test because any wind will push the pellet around. We don’t get many windless days here in Texas, but this past Wednesday was one of them. It was so calm that dandelion fuzz would fall straight down.

You also know from reading this blog that groups do not always open in linear fashion as the distance increases. A rifle that shoots a half-inch group at 50 yards will not automatically shoot one-inch groups at 100 yards — even though the day is perfect.

Inconsistent shots?
While testing this rifle, I’d seen that the first 10 shots could be less accurate than the second 10. They sometimes contained fliers that didn’t seem to exist in the second group. Yesterday, blog reader Jerry in Texas asked me why one shot out of 10 from his Benjamin Marauder was dropping in velocity by over 250 f.p.s. I told him I thought some PCP guns do that in certain places in the power curve. I saw evidence of that on the 50-yard range and again at 100 yards, as I’ll show you.

Most accurate pellet?
I also hedged my bets by taking several pellets to the range that hadn’t been tested in this rifle before. I was getting such great performance at 50 yards from one pellet in particular — the 18.1-grain JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy — that I sort of stopped testing other pellets. That’s not very scientific of me, though it’s very much in keeping with being a gun crank. So, I took some other pellets along and gave them a try at 100 yards — even though they’d not been tried by me before in this rifle.

100 yards means scope adjustments
I knew the pellet would drop a lot going from 50 yards to where the rifle was sighted to 100 yards. I guesstimated the drop would be at least 12 inches, which would be 48 clicks on the quarter-minute elevation knob to bring things back up. But when I adjusted the scope, I stopped at 40 clicks because you never know if the clicks are exactly quarter-minute or if that’s just an approximation. As it turned out, both my guesstimate and the adjustments were close to correct, and I had to adjust the scope another 16 clicks up to get close to the point of aim.

JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets
The first pellet up was the 18.1-grain JSB Exact Jubo Heavy that had given me a group of 10 in 0.522 inches at 50 yards. If any pellet was going to excel in this rifle at 100 yards, I felt this one had the best chance. Alas — the best-laid plans….

The best I was able to do with this pellet was 10 in about 3 inches. I shot the same pellet in both the first 10 shots and the second 10 shots per fill with pretty much similar results, except there was a flier in the first group. I’m not going to show you those groups because they don’t help the report and also because the first group fell below the target paper and hit the 2×4 backer paper I always use when I’m not sure where the pellets are going.

At this point, I decided to punt — as in testing something I hadn’t tried before. One reader had recommended trying the 15.89-grain JSB Exact Jumbo pellets, and I thought it was a good choice. It happens to be one of my favorite .22-caliber pellets, and I normally would have tested it at 50 yards; but when the heavier JSB did so well, I decided to just shoot it to the exclusion of all others.

I refilled the rifle with air and loaded 10 JSB Exact Jumbos into the circular clip. The first group was very telling. Nine out of 10 pellets landed in a 1.668-inch group, but the first shot hit about 4 inches above the top of this main group. Remember what I said about inconsistencies in the first 10 shots after a fill?

Hatsan AT44S-10 Long QE JSB Exact group 1 100 yards
Nine of the 10 JSB Exact pellets landed in this 1.688-inch group at 100 yards. The first shot was 4 inches higher. This is a very good group for any pellet rifle at 100 yards.

After that group, I refilled the clip and shot a second group with the same pellet. This time, all 10 went into 2.385 inches. I know that doesn’t sound very good, but I ask you to reserve your comments until you have shot some 10-shot groups of pellets at 100 yards. It isn’t easy! And guns that group in a half-inch at 50 yards do not necessarily group in one inch at 100 yards.

Look at the shapes of these holes. Many are oval in shape, which indicates they didn’t go through the paper straight-on.

Hatsan AT44S-10 Long QE JSB Exact group 2 100 yards
Here are 10 of the same JSB pellets in a 2.358-inch group. These oval holes show some evidence of a tilt on axis.

Crosman Premier pellets
One of the most accurate .22-caliber pellets is the domed Crosman Premier that comes in the brown cardboard box. Sometimes, they’re the most accurate, and other times they’re among the top 3. But in PCPs they don’t do as well — especially when the PCP is more powerful such as this Hatsan. And this was no exception to that rule, as Premiers couldn’t stay inside 6 inches at 100 yards. I didn’t even complete a group with them after seeing the first few shots land so far apart.

I’d planned on trying Eun Jin pellets, as well; but when I started loading them, I discovered that the tin I picked up were .25-caliber pellets.

H&N Baracuda Green pellets
The next pellet I tested was the H&N Baracuda Green. While lead-free pellets are not that accurate as a general rule, Baracuda Greens are an exception. In the Hatsan, they managed to put 10 shots into 5.25 inches, with 9 of those shots in 2.988 inches. That’s pretty good for lead-free pellets; and, yes, this was the first group of 10 after a fill.

Gamo Hunter pellets
The last pellet I tried was the Gamo Hunter. While I have very little experience with this pellet, I do recall it working well in one spring rifle years ago. But it was not suited to the Hatsan AT44. I didn’t see where the first Hunter struck the target; but I saw the second pellet’s flight through the scope, and it was a wild spiral curve to the right that landed a foot off the target! Clearly this rifle is not suited to shoot Gamo Hunters.

Call it a day
After this last attempt, I decided to call it a day. The shooting had worn me out by this time. I think it’s clear that of the pellets I’ve tested so far, the JSB Exact 15.89-grain Jumbo is the best. Out to 50 yards it may do no better than the heavier 18.1-grain JSB Jumbo Heavy, but something about this lighter pellet carries it to 100 yards in better form.

Conclusions
I believe the Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE is one of the finest PCP rifles on the market at any price. It has power, accuracy, a great trigger and very quiet operation –all for a wonderful price. If you’re in the market for a good PCP, I would put this one on your short list.

Pyramyd Air sale
Pyramyd Air is having a “Christmas in July” sale. If you’re planning to make a purchase, click here to visit their sale pages.

212 thoughts on “Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE: Part 5

  1. Well BB I think I was the one that suggested the 15.89 JSB’s.

    I have had good luck with those pellets in lower powered nitro piston guns as well as some of my converted 1322 woods walker guns that I put together. And the FX Monsoon loves them.

    I would of been happy with the 3” groups let alone the 1.6” group. Thats a great group at a 100yards. Just think that 3” group would hit a gallon plastic milk jug with ease. I like it.



  2. I always enjoy seeing good groups and hearing about the relations of external to internal ballistics for a particular gun, which brings me to my point, that Im not very interested in this hatsan, what I can’t believe is I missed the Hand Powered Weapons book review! I was late for a dentist this morning and didn’t see that til now, I love awesome books that teach you a thing er two, especially something scientific and pinnacle prime for ballistics, as long as its not a terrible insistent graph. That’s a cool book and definitely a must have for airgunners, BB I do hope you do these book reports for any similar treasures you unearth.


    • RDNA,
      Yesterday concerning the Trail NP pistol, I am not interested in more power. I am interested in a lower power gas spring in an air rifle. I for one do not need a high powered sproinger, nor do I desire to deal with all the jumping, slapping and vibration of one. PCP is for power. I would like something of high quality to plink with.


      • I’m not sure what gun it was that I was reading about the other day but I’m pretty sure it was a sproinger that only had rifling for half the length of the barrel,this gun started life as a pistol and someone decided it would make a good small rifle.I believe this gun would be a good candidate for your gas spring transplant.I hope someone reads this and identifies this gun for us because I think it would make a very nice little gun that could easily be shot all day for many years.I sure would like a replacement for my little Slavia!

        Reb


        • Reb
          It sounds like it may have a FX smooth twist barrel on it. Their barrels are similar to what you described but I don’t think that FX made any springer’s. So no tell’n what the gun is.


          • I knew someone would say that! No, this gun is actually affordable,no longer in production but maybe more on the collectible side. The rifling of the barrel began at the breech end and was recessed for about half the barrel length from the muzzle. My memory is shot.Grrr



        • Reb
          Yep I remember BB writing about after I looked at your link. That was when I started talking about those 1377 and such wood walkers that I had made a few different variations of.


          • And I asked about a gun I could handle with one hand. That’s when B.B. broke out the 2240 carbine that’s been such a Hot topic,Thanks again B.B.!

            Reb


            • Reb
              That hi-pac pcp 2240 conversion that BB reviewed really changed my mind about the 2240.

              I always liked the 2240′s but wasn’t crazy about Co2 because of our cold winters and shooting out side where I live. And I did make some those woods walker conversions out of them also with the steel breech, longer barrels and the 1399 stock and ran them on the 12 gram Co2 cartridges.

              But man o man do I like my 2240′s on HPA now. Everytime I shoot them they put a smile on my face.

              And matter of fact that is one of the guns I just sold to help get my Hatsan QE. The 2240 conversion to pcp that had that donor barrel I turned down to fit the steel breech from that Flying Dragon 60c. One of the guys at work got it. He absolutely loves the gun. And his younger kids shoot it all the time because its so light. That hi-pac conversion is definitely a cool product in my book.


              • They’ve been around for a little while but what B.B. did for them by showing how reliable, easy to install, operate and maybe tune ;) will probably help send them into stardom. I had high hopes for this system and I’m sold.

                Reb


  3. I have to give Hatsan some credit, they seem to have put together a decent PCP. I would still take the Marauder over this, but now people have more to wimble over.


    • RidgeRunner,

      Once this rifle is available with a wood stock I will take this over the Marauder. I believe this gun will prove to be much more accurate (actually it already is) over time than the Marauder. I have to say that my Marauder, in .177, has not kept up with my personal improvement.

      G&G


      • There are better air rifles out there. That is one of the reasons I have hesitated myself. You can bring it up with a LW barrel. .22 or .25 would have been better also. As far as this air rifle, Hatsan is working on it, but it is not there yet.

        What is needed is an air rifle of higher quality without the European price tag. I personally think the FX, Daystate, etc. lines are about $500-$800 overpriced. Their quality exceeds that of Crosman and such, however the performance of what they offer is not two to three times better.


        • RidgeRunner,

          You’re right that there are better rifles out there. I have four of them: Air Arms S400 MPR FT, Daystate Airwolf, Rapid Air Weapons TM1000 and FX Royale 400. All four of these are capable of and have competed on the national level with respectable results. Some have placed high and at least two have won.

          Maybe some day someone will start selling rifles of this caliber at more reasonable prices. The problem with that is we have no idea when. So if you want to start shooting at that level sometime soon you have to shell out the money now.

          By the way, the performance of these guns is frequently 2 or 3 times better than a Marauder or Hatsan. Again, since there are no viable alternatives to the higher priced guns you just have to pay the price of admission (or don’t). It’s unfortunate, but I was happy to pay. The results speak for themselves with these guns.


          • This is basicly what I have been doing. My plinking pistol is an Izzy 46M. My plinking rifles are a 1906 BSA and an Edge. I am rebuilding two FWB300S’s and I am building up a customized Talon SS.

            Would I pay a grand for an air rifle of the quality of those air rifles of yours? In a heart beat.


          • Now if I was to pay the full admission price, I would go with the RAW. At least most of it is Made In USA.

            Crosman could take a Marauder to the next level. The basics are there. Come out with a Marauder 2 or a Pro Shop version with a match grade barrel and upgraded internal parts. Offer it with a nice walnut or laminate stock.

            People are doing this now, just like they are doing with Crosman CO2 pistols. Crosman caught on to that, maybe they will wake up and see there is a market for such.


            • RidgeRunner,

              I did put a custom wood stock on my Marauder. This was part of an attempt to improve the Marauder’s accuracy and it worked. It didn’t make a world beater out of it but it did improve. Just not enough. If someone added a match grade, choked barrel, nice ergonomic wood stock to it and refined the internals that would probably then make a match grade rifle out of it. But, it would then be in the price range of the better Air Arms rifles. I just don’t know if there is a way of getting around paying a high price for


              • Oh I do indeed understand. My point is that Crosman could come out with a very nice version of the Marauder that would shoot with the best and stand a good chance at being about $1000. Will they? Probably not.

                When the time comes, if I run across a screaming deal on a Marauder I might just pick it up and rebuild it into a decent rifle. A more likely scenario is I will save my pennies and get a RAW.


            • RidgeRunner,

              You saw that one of my rifles is the RAW TM1000. The action is installed in the BM500 LW style stock for benchrest plus it came with the field target style stock as well. It is my best shooter right now and I just shot it for the first time a couple of days ago. After a few weeks I expect it to be better than it is right now. That benchrest style stock is taking some getting used to.

              G&G


              • I’m thinking the HM1000 or HM1000X, or maybe even the HM1000X .357. I am sure I will mostly be shooting long range target with it, but the primary purpose will be hunting. I have a goodly collection of target rifles right now.


                • RidgeRunner,

                  I am strictly a target shooter, never go hunting. So the TM1000 is perfect for me. You mentioned the .357. As you know a lot of target shooters are beginning to use the higher calibers now. My understanding is they do this because the heavier pellets resist the wind better. Thing is not many competitions shoot over 50 yards, the notable exception being the Extreme Bench Rest. I’m not sure it’s necessary so we’ll see how long it lasts. My TM1000 is .20 caliber so that it is viable for Field Target. I had never shot a .20 cal. gun before but I am pleased that it is shooting very well at 40 yds. anyway.

                  I bought the gun from Steve Smith of Wild West Airguns. It was his personal benchrest and F.T. gun. He swears by .20 caliber. I haven’t paid attention to how many other use the caliber. Talk at you later.

                  G&G


                  • I am not a competition shooter myself, except with myself. I just like long range shooting. I can lay my mat on the front porch and shoot 50 yards. I can move to the driveway and set up 150+ yards.

                    I have not been hunting for many years because I have not needed to, but it would be nice to have a nice quality air rifle that is capable of such should I feel I need to. When I did hunt, it was always a head shot, so accuracy is always the first consideration with me. It usually does not take much power to penetrate a skull, except maybe mine.


                    • I’m surprised they skipped over .32 cal, I think it would be a nice compromise of power and drag coefficient.

                      Reb


                  • Since it has been a while, for giggles I went out and priced these things. I might swing an Air Arms or maybe even a FX, but a Daystate, it ain’t gonna get that cold. I am going to have to see it produce a 1/2″ CTC 10 shot group at 100 yards before I even consider dropping that kind of money on them. That is outrageous.


                    • RidgeRunner,

                      I don’t know about the other Daystate models but the Airwolf MCT is quite capable of that accuracy. The British love the Daystate rifles. So do I. Oh well, it’s only money. Can’t take it with me.

                      G&G


          • I recently bought an FX Independence with a Hawke Sport Sidewinder 30 tactical 6.5-20 scope. Yes it was worth saving for. Everything about it is WOW! Now I hardly touch my other guns and want to sell my Marauders.


            • Feinwerk
              I was like that when I got my FX Monsoon. The FX guns are definitely cool guns. But I have a feeling you will come back to your Marauder. I did. :)


          • I am a bit confused. If your other rifles shoot 200% to 300% aka (2 to 3 times) better then an Mrod (family) or Hatsan PCPs . Humm. So B.B.s .624 group of 10 rounds at 50 yards, yes.
            So your guns can shot 10 rounds at .321 or .280, I am impressed. Perhaps you would like to post those targets along side of B.B.s green barreled, $550ish Hatsan.

            Or Rick Eulster’s 21 yard 5 round group of .120 with another AT44 recently, so then your guns shoot .060 and .040 equal distance groups?

            O.i.c.


  4. Three inches is the best I can do with my Mrod at 100 yrds.with the milk jug and water.The jug has a 3” circle molded into the plastic and that’s were they all go.It’s fun watching the pellets arcing down in the flying path to the target.I only keep a few different type of pellets around here that work for me and there could be one that would tighten up the pattern and I’m sure sandbagging would improve that 3” circle but I never need a 100 yrd. shot at a squirrel anyway “I did plow threw ones head two years ago at 120 yrds.” best shot I ever made with the Mrod! but I don’t try to make a shot like that to often just felling cocky that day.So if I did shoot a 1 1/2” at this distance I would be pretty happy and hold on to that target for bragging rights. I did have that rear moment few weeks ago when 5 rounds went into the same ragged hole from the TalonP 24” barrel at 130 feet.Seance most of us air gunners are usually by ourselves when we get all tore up over a hole in hole pattern and there is no one around to express our excitement I just throw it out here to share with others because as it was the topic here back in the winter, this is a lone sport for the most part.If it was catching a 5 pound bass on a ultra lite gear many would understand the excitement but not so with holes in holes with a airgun they only know as a BB gun.


    • I’m here for you, man! I know where you’re at! Bring it! We’ll back slap!

      Where I live firearms are so common it is almost impossible to get anyone’s attention about this stuff. Like you said, to them it is a bb gun. If you want a top shelf air rifle, you go to Wally World and buy the one on the top shelf.


      • RidgeRunner,Just last night I was talking to a Friend I haven’t seen in eleven years over the phone and topic of shooting came up.22 rim fires and crossbow talking.It’s hard to get someones int rest in airgun talk if they are a powder burner as I was for most of my life.I start off telling them about pinpoint accuracy at 200 feet and for sure at 150 for sure with some skill.Then I tell about the 92 squirrels I put in the freezer two years ago with the Mrod.Then I remind them about ammo shortage. Then I tell um that air is free. Then that many airguns have shrouds are are nearly whisper quite and that allot of these guns will out shot a fine 22 cal. powder hands down.”don’t misunderstand I still powder burners”.Then as the main punch line I tell get on the Internet and go too Pyramyd Air and read reviews and watch videos and you’ll see why this is a growing sport and very self fulfilling and just plain fun.So much can be said here but I’ll stop because you folks know were I’m coming from.


        • I have been talking to a friend at work for a few years now. He finally picked up a sproinger the other day. I gave him a pellet sampler to try out and see what worked best in his.

          It is difficult to get many around here interested in airguns because firearms are so prevalent that you can buy them in yard sales.

          With the return of big bore air rifles, I do believe we will see more powder burner guys turn to air.


          • RidgeRunner,Yes we have what is called the 127 yard sale here in KY every year in August.It is the longest yard sale in the world.It was 450 miles long.Now its much longer going all the way into Canada from Alabama.There is many guns for sale but very few airguns and most of them are China stuff.I get very excited hoping to find that one high dollar PCP for a song and a dance but it ain’t happened yet.Springer’s are out there but very few and I have a problems with them at a yard sale because many times Buba will say hey man its works and cock it and dry fire it.So how many times did Buba do that? I’d have to shot out back many times before I would drop cash in a mans hand that I would never see again.But still hoping to find that TX200 or PCP in good shape for $50.00.I know don’t hold my breath but its fun wishing.There are semi trucks here and there with wall to wall guns for sail but those guys are not to yard sailish with there prices and know what there worth.I’m looking for a revengeful divorce ex wife that could care less about her ex airguns and just wants 1/4 of what its worth.Sorry ex. husbands that the kinda guy I am.Who wouldn’t jump on a deal.I just remember here around a year ago one reader here lost his guns in a divorce and had to start over.Please don’t take my comments personal,I lost all in the big ”D” myself. 72 acre farm,van,car,airplane,house,and half my wallet.And I swear I was bathing in a creek to stay clean.Back on my feet now!Good wife,farm,good fishing and hunting etc.


            • I walked away witrh a Sears auburban 12 and a Honda HTR3009 riding mowers and about $250 worth of junk by means of one such rabid ex-wife.
              What else can you do?
              Reb


            • I don’t think you are going to find a TX200 for that price, but I have picked up a Webley Tempest in great shape for $60, and got him to throw in a Daisy Red Ryder. You just have to be ready to jump when the opportunity shows itself.


    • steve
      I don’t now if you noticed above that I used a 1 gallon plastic milk jug as a example.

      My . 177 and .25 cal. synthetic stock Marauders will keep it inside that 3” circle easily on a milk jug at 100 yards. More like 2.5” and under with the .25 cal. And if it ain’t windy out the .177 will keep it at 2” and under with the 10 grn. JSB’s. The .25 cal. Marauder is a little more forgiving in the wind with the 31 grn. Barracudas though. And yes of course bench resting the guns.

      Don’t you just love this airgun stuff. :)


      • Gunfun1,Yes I seen were you used 1 gallon jugs.I like to fill with water at 100 yrds there is no doubt were the pellets hit cause the water will run out in the holes and that helps if you are shooting with a weak powered scope.The more you talk about the ”flat” 177 cal.it almost makes me want a good Mrod in take cal. simply for the shot count vrs.the pumping workout int a larger cal.I get about somewhere around 20 good shots in the 22 Mrod at starting pressure of 2500 psi. ending at 2000 psi. I bet you get much more then that in the 177? I’m just thinking paper puncher here but although I’m not a big fan of the 177 for hunting I’m sure as accurate as these guns are it will take out a squirrel with a precise head shot.Here in KY the 177,22 and 25 cal are legal airgun rounds for squirrel hunting.I will have to say I really don’t think the 177 is a good idea for allot of people who don’t understand the importance of a precise head shot.Many will just see if they can hit the squirrel with a body shot.It will be a long a painful death for any critter with a 177 tiny hole in the body.I’d like to see KY do away with that cal. for hunting squirrel.Please don’t beat me up readers for that its just one mans opinion and I know they can be taking and many have but a 22 cal. and up is much more humane and much more foot pounds.


        • steve
          I do like the flatter shooting .177. But here’s one I will throw out at ya.

          I have had a very flat shooting .25 cal. Mrod. It was modified pretty good and Making serious horsepower with the 31 grn Barracudas. It was in the mid 70 fpe area with the Cudas. The heavy Eun Jin 43 grn pellets were smashing things at 50 yards. 80+ fpe with those.

          You hear people talk about that magic velocity number and a pellet should stay under a 1000 fps. Well I believe that weight, size and design of a projectile matched to the right velocity can still give you a good flying pellet even above 1000 fps. You just got to do more work to get everything right. Been there done that. Ain’t that how that saying goes. :)


          • Gunfun1,I hear ya on the 25.I swear my TalonP 24” barrel 25 cal.Will allot of times out shot my 22 cal.Mrod at 200 feet and beyond.IF its sighted in at 80 feet then at 100 yards not feet,there is a 11” holdover and will easily keep um in that milk jug circle we were talking about.Gotta get sandbags and retry that 100 yrd. and see if I can reduce that circle.I seen Paul on PA videos put those I thinks 30 or 33 grain Eunjins in a very impressive tight circle. And I just ordered four tins ’950′ rounds of pellets last week and forgot to get those Eunjins.I have had any luck with the 43 grn.Eunjis with the talonp but this guy put um in a very tight little circle at a 75 yrds. I think it was .You can look it up.And I do agree with you that a little over 1000 fps. with the perfect recipe of air.weight and nerve’s make for a deadly combo.I’d love to know my TalonP 24” is doing at fps.I do go and reference from BBs reports and others and I think around 1150 fps with a 25 grn. setting a power level 6 is about correct.I only have two PCPs and I just won’t let go of the cash for a crony and one would be useful. so yes these 25 cal PCP are very flat shooting! I hardly can ever see the pellet in flight threw my scope as I can the 22 cal. Mrod so that tells ya something.Last week the sun was just wright and I did for a millie second catch a brief glimpse of a 31 grn. flying to the hunter orange target paper I use.Plus the recoil has to be considered and makes it harder to see a pellet in flight.


            • steve
              The 43 Eun Jins make some serious fpe but they just start going away in accuracy after 50 yards in my MRod. Maybe they would be good farther out if my gun made some more power.

              But I think the power was pushed as far as it would go in my .25 Mrod. I even had the valve out of the gun and took it apart and did some radiusing and opening up and polishing the valve on the inside and the holes and such. And that did bring the power up the most in the gun. But it takes time to do. But not as long as porting and polishing the heads on the race car engines when I was doing them.

              But as anything goes; its always a balance to get something to work. And its usually a fine line between good and bad results.


            • Steve,
              You’re really missing out on a lot of valuable information about your guns’ level of tuning and health by not using a chronograph.They are one of the most valuable tools available in tuning PCP’s for power vs shotcount and let you know if your sproinger is in need of attention(broken mainspring here). They could also let you know if a couple extra pumps is worth it in your pumpers, if so inclined.
              Get one! The one I got has pretty much all the bells & whistleshttp://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Shooting_Chrony_Alpha_Chronograph_Red/838 You can get ‘em cheaper if you want but It’s less than most guns and well worth it.

              Reb


              • Reb,Advice well taking and I know it would be a wonderful tool from everything I’ve read and what BB says about them and the info they can provide as valuable.But many of you guys are very much on the tech. and mechanic end of things.You gentlemen love taking your guns apart to see what makes them tick and improve them etc.I’m just not wired that way.I’ve never touched the inside of any airgun I got.Except to make the custom stocks for the TalonP and Mrod.Yes you are correct in what you say but even if I had one I wouldn’t go inside my guns.I’ve only got the springer pistol and I never shot the Beeman R1.Maybe I’ll run up one one at the 127 yard sale for a song and a dance? Almost forgot.I did take apart the RWS pistol to see why the safety quit working and it was because I’ve simply wore it out.Heck I was proud of that little feat.Honestly I’d rather have one more Hawk scope if anymore money is to be spent on my guns and just the speed be a mystery.Enjoy your day Reb.


    • steve,

      I understand your frustration being a lone shooter. I still do most of my shooting by myself, but finding an airgun club about 6 mos. ago has added a new dimension to my enjoyment of airgunning. Especially now that I can compete with others.

      G&G


      • G&G,I’ve got one friend here local that is really into air guns.He is the gentleman that gave me this airgun fever to Begin with.He gave me a brand new Beeman R1 about six years ago.That is all it took after I saw what a Quality airgun can do.Last week he brought down his new Beeman P1 and let me shoot it.I couldn’t put it down.Its not a tack driver,its a needle threader! Only around the 500s fps.this pistol will put were you aim um.I was doing 1” circle at around 60 feet.I was resting my hands on a surface to do that because the pistol is a springer and not touching the pistol on anything.It cost as much as a good PCP and don’t think I would drop that kinda money on such a short barrel rather have something for that kinda cash that would reach way out there to hunt with.Anyway it was very impressive.Its nice to have at least one good friend so we can get together a few times a year and swap story’s and shoot each others guns.



          • P11 and P1 are both very nice. I have a p1 that was in .22, has a .177 barrel in it now – I wish I could switch it back, but the strap that holds the barrel down got 1 screw with the head stripped out, so its .177 for now! I hit soda cans at 25 yards offhand, or charcoal briquettes at about 15 yards, all day long – its a blast. Easy to cock and shoot!


            • wimpanzee, Yes I’d love to get one of these P11s but I’m gonna remain content with my little RWS P5 mag.177 cal.I’m glad you said 25 yards. I’m hitting um at 60 feet with this pistol but not off hand to much.I hang the pop cans from a fishing line from the pull tab and the string from a four foot tobacco stick at a angle.fill full of water and then the fun begins.Of course the Ferrel can is dangerous and must be handled with care when tying down with the string and those energy cans are the most risky when handling.Good thing about hanging from the string is they can’t run when hit and they stay upright shot after shot.Life is good with a accurate air pistol!



  5. B.B.,

    I’m intrigued by this Hatsan AT44-10. This performance at this price point is impressive.

    I went back and read the previous 4 articles you wrote about this AT44-10 and couldn’t find my answers. Did you ever clean the barrel on this new gun? Do you think shooting at 100 yards with the clip vs. single loading affected accuracy?

    Don’t get me wrong. Those are respectable groups.

    kevin


    • Kevin,

      No, I never cleaned the barrel of this rifle. And I always used the clip. The breech is too narrow to load it singly. It’s not as accessible as a Marauder breech.

      I have just basically shot this rifle continually as I have reported. Nothing of importance was left out of the reports.

      The only thing I have not commented on is the trigger. While it is two-stage and adjustable and stage two does break cleanly, it still pulls off a little hard. But that is more of an observation than a criticism. This rifle is a winner.

      B.B.



      • BB
        I did some testing on my hatsan AT44S10-long with the hatsan moderator on it which makes it rather a long barrel with it being 23 inches for the barrel and 8 1/4 inch for the moderator for a total of just over 31 inches. It is whisper quiet though and you only hear the trigger and hammer to valve noise, then the pellet hitting the target.

        My testing was at 50 yards with 9 or 10 different pellets (see post to Gunfun1 in Gamo P900 review part 3 for specifics ). I sighted to zero with the Crosman premiers from the tins of wally world and then held over or under to compensate for the different pellet weights. The lightest pellet was just over 12.65gr and had to many flyers, the heaviest was the H&N rabbit magnums and they grouped second best. I tried the H&N field targets at 16.36gr and they were fourth best, the JSB jumbo heavys at 18.13 were third best.

        I will have to try the JSB !5.89 pellets now since you found them to be the best at 100 yards, they should do good at 50 also. I am very pleased with my gun and it very easy to shoot well.

        Thanks for the great review .

        Buldawg


        • A gun that shoots Rabbit Magnums? Not only that, It shoots the very well! Wow that’s huge, how much power with them?


          • Reb
            I did not do the math to figure the FPE of the rabbit magnums, but I do know that it was putting 1/4 inch size holes thru .060″ to .080″ thick sheet metal at the 50 yards. The rabbit magnums were shooting at a high of 867.4 fps and a low of 834.7 fps with a average of 853.8 so if you can do the math you should be able to tell me the FPE and if so what is the simple formula to figure FPE with as I would like to know but I am not a math wiz by any means. I can measure and read micrometers and calipers and such but when it comes to algebra and beyond I have never figured out how to add/subtract or multiply letters, give me numbers and I am ok but letters in a math equation make no sense.

            Buldawg



              • Mike In Atl
                Thanks for showing me that link I did not know it was there, I did the calculations as you had the pellet weight wrong. They were 22 cal rabbit magnums at 25.62 gr and max of 867.4 fps = 42.82 fpe. That’s just way to easy, just how I like it.
                Thanks

                Buldawg


                • Yea, wrong weight, I just searched on rabbit mags and it brought up .177 cal, but I thought you might just like that tool, and it may help some other folks as well.


                  • Mike in Atl
                    Definitely like the tool and did not know it was there. We are almost neighbors also as I live in Oxford, AL 2 miles of I-20 about 20 miles east of Talladega super speedway.

                    I will use that tool a lot now that I know it there.

                    Buldawg



              • Yeah, Thanks Mike in Atl! That’s what I love about this blog!
                Been fillin’ out job apps all day.I still gotta check out Chairgun one of these days.
                Reb


                • Reb
                  You haven’t messed with Chairgun yet? You need to go to the Hawke scope site and down load the program. Its free and they also have a app for a phone.

                  Get it and start plugging some numbers in. Kind of cool reference tool that’s for sure.


                  • It’s supposedly downloaded but I got lost somewhere in the installation instructions, too much for me right now, is there a video tutorial?
                    I think I’ll check now.
                    Reb


          • I think just about everybody has bought a tin of Rabbit Magnums at some time, hoping their air rifle would be able to use them. Sooner or later it was bound to happen.



              • Their biggest issue is diameter. They will quite literally not fit in most air rifles unless you have a “large” bore. Also, most sproingers do not have enough umph to do anything with them. They have a very high coefficient of friction compared to most other pellets. They might do decent in a very powerful PCP with a 1:14 twist.


                • Well that most definitely rules my guns out. The only gun I have that has a loose bore and substantially more power than stock would be my 760 and nothing seems to fly straight outta it. A poor boy like me can’t afford to take that kinda gamble with his hard won bankroll. I’ve got the QB-36 torn down right now, I’m tossin’ around ideas on what I’d like it to be when I get done with it.I ran a search last night and came up with an idea I found on GTA about installing a Titan gas spring, featuring a MikeinIowa that has performed this procedure which helped de-mystify this retrofitting(no more broken springs).I’ve been steadily deburring (cocking link and compression chamber last night) in preparation for the rebuild.


  6. BB, Edith–My replacement TF90 red dot sight arrived yesterday. The lenses are crystal clear. Thank you for your advice and another thank you to Pyramyd for their replacement policy. Ed



      • Edith
        I got a email about the North Carolina air gun show in October 17 & 18th and was wondering if you and your husband Tom are going to be there. I am going to try and make it and would love to meet you both in person and talk a while with both of you.

        Hope you are going .

        Buldawg



          • BB
            I knew you stayed busy and that NC would be quite a distance for you to attend. I have a best friend that lives a short ways from there so it is going to be a visit and attend the show for me.

            Buldawg



      • Hey B.B and all.

        I also received my replacement TF-90 Red Dot site. I love it. Took it out to the desert this morning and found that it shoots just as good as open sites on my Ruger Air Hawk–but much more quickly and more easily. Love the rugged metal build and having not had a 10-way adjustable dot before…didn’t know how much I’d appreciate that, but it makes for much more accurate shooting than the brighter more-cheaply made sites. Also, it’s small enough that it clings to the rifle without jiggling as I have found some other scopes to do.

        You’ll remember that my first one would not adjust up high enough to site in. BB, you thought it was due to barrel droop, but it looks like I just had one of those rare scopes that was improperly set from the factory. Gotta love PA who sent me another scope with no questions asked.

        If you have thought about a red dot, you really cannot beat the quality of this one for $20. Thinking about ordering another as a ‘low cost’ Christmas present.

        Rob


        • Rob,
          I really do like, want and will get one of these. Glad you got it worked out and thanks for getting back to us on that one too.Obviously very affordable and sturdy, maybe a little heavy duty for average shooting but I like that kind of reassurance.

          Reb


  7. B.B.

    For those of you interested in “The Practical Guide to Man-powered Weapons and Ammunition” that was reviewed in yesterday’s blog, you can buy it from Amazon in digital format for $9.99 and have it delivered in minutes to your computer, tablet or smart phone. It’s cheaper than the paperback at $11.96 or other sellers – but best of all you get to read it today! I haven’t gotten very far in reading it but I like the author’s style.

    Thanks to B.B. for pointing out this book to us all.

    Jim


  8. B.B.,
    I’m not sure why it came to mind, maybe the visions of 2240′s dancing in my head overnight but I’m wondering how this gun would perform on Co2, I would expect velocity to drop substantially( by about half) but shouldn’t you also get about double the shots per fill? Could there be any danger in attempting this feat that I’m unaware of? Maybe it sounds silly to most readers but I for one would be interested in a gun that approaches 80-100 shots per fill and still has enough power to hunt or at least control pests with.

    Reb



  9. B.B,
    You said “A rifle that shoots a half-inch group at 50 yards will not automatically shoot one-inch groups at 100 yards…”
    What is your theory as to why an airgun won’t shoot one-inch groups at 100 yards?


    • If the error was due to the shooter’s aim being off, then there is a proportional relationship between grouping and distance. However, when variance is due to the gun itself, this is not necessarily the case.

      The easiest way to picture this is to consider the effect of inconsistent velocity. Velocity determines “flight time” to the target, the shot that is slower takes longer to get to the target – and therefore drops more and hits lower.

      But the distance a pellet drops is proportional to the SQUARE of the “flight time”. The relative drop of the slower pellet doesn’t get twice as bad at twice the distance, it is four times as much at twice the distance. This is a simplified example that assumes a constant pellet velocity – but the effect is the same in real life where the pellet velocity is not constant.


      • Vince,
        You said “the distance a pellet drops is proportional to the SQUARE of the “flight time”. ”
        Where did you get this information? Did you made it up?


        • No, it’s basic physics.

          A body accelerating at a constant rate covers a distance according to the formula d=1/2*a*t^2, where d=distance covered, a=acceleration, and t=time.

          For all practical purposes the acceleration due to gravity is a constant 32 feet/sec^2 when the vertical velocity is relatively low. The horizontal velocity of the projectile has virtually no effect on the vertical component.


        • If you ever look at a graphic representation of the flight of a bullet or pellet, you’ll notice that the trajectory is curved. It starts out nearly flat, but curves down towards the ground more and more aggressively the further out it goes.

          If the relationship between flight time and projectile drop were simply proportional, it would be something very close to a straight line.


          • Vince,
            But you still didn’t answer my initial question.
            Also, you said “the distance a pellet drops is proportional to the SQUARE of the “flight time”. You still didn’t tell us where you come up with this. Well?


            • During an attempt to find the answer to your question(curious myself),I found another guy asking the same question and everyone was telling him to “just use the calculators”.Then I found this,It’s for sale or rent so I’m trying to show the book without it’s ad so,I hope this works.http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71KZo6N-wYL.jpg I hear tell your answer is in here. I don’t have the money or desire to decipher all that.I’ll just use the calculator.

              Reb


            • As I said, it’s a standard equation in physics. It’s about as basic as 2×2=4. You can find the equation d=1/2*a*t^2 in any elementary physics book.


            • He did respond — but maybe the response is too complicated?

              The simplest I can put it is:

              Given: acceleration of gravity is 32 ft/sec/sec (ft/sec^2).

              Upon firing, the pellet has a zero vertical velocity. At the end of the first second it will have accelerated from 0 ft/sec to 32 ft/sec down, and will have travelled the average, or 16 feet.

              In the second second, it starts with the 32 ft/sec and accelerates another 32 ft/sec, ending at 64 ft/sec. It will have fallen an additional 48 ft (the average of the start/end velocities).

              If it were in the air for a third second, it starts at 64 ft/sec, accelerates another 32 ft/sec, ending at 96 ft/second; and will have fallen an additional 80 ft.

              That’s the simplified version… You need the formal equations to work out the more reasonable time-of-flight for pellets (at 750fps, a 25 yard target only takes 1/10 of a second).


              • You guys above need to go take a college level class on physics, and if anyone wants to be more accurate in your definition of acceleration, try taking a Calculus class first to learn derivatives and integration, then take an engineering level class on physics where acceleration is dv/dt, and continue from there.


                • I’m beginning to think Joe might be a troll… in any event, Joe, I’ve got a degree in mechanical engineering and 30 years experience as a naval engineer. Your comments are making no sense.


                  • Vince,

                    Joe has been with us for several years, has posted hundreds of comments, and has interacted with B.B. and many of our blog readers. In any case, his previous comments have always been polite, helpful and informative.

                    Edith


                    • Edith, my apologies if my answer was a bit “tart”. But Joe’s comments are (as I said) utterly nonsensical, and his confidence in them (considering his obvious unfamiliarity with the subject) is rather perplexing. This isn’t high-level stuff by any stretch.


    • Joe,

      My main theory is the rifle isn’t that accurate.

      But if you meant why does a rifle that will shoot a half-inch group at 50 yards open to 1.5 inches and more at 100 yards, it all comes down to the pellet’s stability in flight.

      B.B.


  10. Times have changed. I remember B.B. once calling 100 yard shooting with an airgun a circus act. I think 1.5 MOA with an airgun at this distance is outstanding and not at all easy to achieve with a firearm. Another blog estimate compared 100 yard shooting with an air rifle to 1000 yard shooting with a firearm. If that’s true then 1.5 MOA at 1000 yards is superior. Along these lines, I wonder if there is a way to match 100 yard shooting with a .22LR with the equivalent distance for a 30-06.

    I’ve got shooting ranges on my mind as well. I’m making another visit tomorrow! While taking in the sand and surf in Hawaii, I had a great idea. What if I just tried my M1 again with the original recommended load uncrimped. I had one session where this load worked perfectly. Maybe it will again and all the problems will go away unexplained as they sometimes do. I loaded up the beauties last night with an especially shiny batch of Sierra MatchKing bullets. (I can really see how you would look at ammo as money.) Tomorrow is also a big day for offhand shooting with the Anschutz. My performance with the M4 indicates that my difficulties with the Anschutz may be due to the reticle and not to my technique. I will put this to the test by shooting offhand with my airgun scope which I successfully mounted to the Anschutz. Here is the perfect blend of airgun and firearm that will render the decision! At stake are tens of thousands of offhand shots with airguns!! I’m trying to be expectantly cool and confident.

    Matt61


    • Yeah, I agree on the difficulty of shooting at 100 yards with an airgun. I was shooting…and missing half the time…a milk jug this morning. The slightest breeze blew my shot unpredictably. I would love an airgun that could reliably shoot 1.5 at 100 yards…and a place with zero breeze.

      Be really col
      Ol to have an indoor range with that distance. Could really see what every airgun could do.

      Rob




          • Rob
            I was just wondering. And if a airgun is dong this good at a hundred yards I don’t think there are many out there that will fall in the good shooter 100 yard category.

            If there is others I would like to know about them. I find the longer distance air gun shooting fascinating. And I’m talking not modified but factory shipped production models. Not something somebody made. Thats the guns I’m talking about.


            • GF1,

              Customer product reviews submitted on Pyramyd Air’s website indicate that there are a fair number of guys shooting targets and dispatching squirrels at 90 and 110 yards. The guns they’re using? Usually Gamo springers, Crosman Nitro Pistons and other breakbarrels.

              I figure that people are either very, very bad at estimating distances or they don’t know the difference between yards and feet. I think it’s mostly the latter, with a smattering of the former thrown in.

              Challenging such claims gets you a real earful. Guys don’t like it when you question their shooting prowess!

              Edith


              • Edith
                I believe that I have read some of those reviews. Especially the ones that you were making comments on.

                And they sure do like to back up their claims don’t they.


                • Hey Gunfun. Hi Edith.

                  Yes, I love long distance shooting and I really push my airguns to do more than they were built for. I can hit a gallon of milk at a hundred yards–about half the time–when the wind dies. Now, how I measure a hundred yards is to take a hundred LONG paces. I’ve practiced pacing over 20 known yards…so I think I’m pretty good at it. Now, having said all of that, I gotta’ say…I have an extremely difficult time believing anyone can shoot a squirrel ethically at that distance with anything less than a specialty rifle. Even BB’s 1.5 inches is not narrow enough to hunt with in my book. You’re just as likely to miss or knock a toe off as to kill the thing. Just crazy.

                  When I was a kid, I once shot a squirrel with a slingshot at a great distance (I was small so I really couldn’t tell you how far), but suffice it to say I hit and killed the squirrel. Blind luck! More, blind BAD luck! I wasn’t hunting, just playing around…and the rock hitting the squirrel was a fluke and nothing to brag about. It actually taught me a lesson about messing around.

                  Now, regarding my Air Hawk and it’s abilities, I’m really sure it could do much better, but it would take complete windlessness–something I’ve never encountered where I’m at. What about you Gunfun? What do you shoot successfully at distance.

                  Rob


                  • Rob/GF1,

                    The most absurd and ridiculous braggart was a guy whom I knew via an airgun bulletin board run by a guy in Pennsylvania. It was in the 1990s, when the internet didn’t have vast resources. This guy swore he could hit a 10M bullseye pistol target with a plain old Crosman pistol (about 400-500 fps or so) — from a quarter mile away.

                    I told him I doubt I could even see the target at a quarter mile! Oh, my. It was as if I’d questioned his very existence. Others told him he was full of baloney. I guess when you’re caught telling such an outrageous lie, you have two choices. You either cave and admit to gross exaggeration, or you fight tooth and nail to defend your position. He chose the latter. And he kept bringing it up over and over and over.

                    Some people choose to lie, and it’s probably because it’s the only thing they’ve got going for them.

                    Edith


                    • That’s such a BAD lie…because it’s beyond the realm of possibility. Hilarious. I mean, you have to laugh at that.


                    • Edith,Some would rather climb a tree and lie then stand on the ground and tell the truth. And I have a two hundred yard range from my front porch down the gravel driveway.The target holders are every fifty yards up to 100 yrds.I measured it off with a 100 foot tape.I hardly ever shot anything past 100 yrds.I keep in a realist hunting shots witch around 100 feet and under. I do allot off 150 foot practice shooting but that is usually enough distance for me simply because in the real world squirrel hunting even that is pushing it for a head shot and some of these squirrels here act like there on crack and won’t set still long enough for a good shot.But when that happens and there feeding on nuts and won’t remain still I tell myself just like Arnold would say ” I’ll be back”.



                  • Rob
                    Talk about blind luck, back in the late 70s my buddy and I were out hunting/plinking with some 22 rifles and pistols in Tampa, FL area and he saw a buzzard flying over head at maybe 1/4 mile or so I don’t really know how high I just know we could barely see it and he said the proverbial “watch this” and proceeded to take aim at it with a 22 snub nose pistol with a barrel of 2 or 3 inches long. Well he took the shot and I swear on the bible that the buzzard instantly keeled over in flight and spiraled back to the ground not 100 feet from us. If I had not been there I would have never believed it. That was a once in a lifetime shot for sure.

                    Buldawg


                  • Rob
                    12oz. soda can at 65 yards all day with my synthetic stock Mrod in .177 cal. and 25 cal.

                    A 2 liter soda bottle at around 80 yards.

                    And a gallon milk jug at 100 yards. And the calmer the wind the better. And of course bench resting. :)


                    • I’m sure your MROD is more accurate than anything I’ve got, but wouldn’t you agree there is almost an exponential degree of difficulty between 65 yards and 100? Certainly between 50 and 100…and even a large difference between 90 and 100. Maybe it’s just that my rifles are underpowered or that my barrel isn’t as sweet. It just seems like those last few yards really make the challenge. What’s your experience with your Maurauder?


                  • Rob
                    I don’t know if this will post in the right place but you made a comment down a little farther about how the difficulty increases as the shots become farther out but there wasn’t enough room to reply.

                    Yes I definitely agree that it takes more concentration on the longer shots. And then if there is any wind trying to factor that into your shots. Definitely hard to do.

                    Notice how the targets that I use as the distance got farther out the object got bigger that I was shooting at.


              • Edith
                That’s what I like about you, you tell it like it is just like my wife. I agree that most people get yards and feet mixed up. I know if I could shoot 1.5 inch groups with an air gun much less a firearm I would be ecstatic. I hope my hatsan is forgiving enough of me to be able to half as good with my eye sight.

                Buldawg


            • Gunfun1,

              I’m certain you know about the better air rifles out there that are the “full package” when shooting out to 100yds. Of course it seems that right now we are trending toward larger caliber guns for long range shooting. We’ve yet to see if that approach pans out.

              G&G


    • I have been handloading for my M-1 30-06 since the mid 1980′s. I have never crimped any of them and have never had a problem. It should work fine.

      Mike


  11. I have been watching these new quiet Hatsan pcp guns. And the results that BB and buldawg have been getting has almost convinced me to get one. Yep almost and here’s why. This is the gun I want. And I just sold 3 of my lower end guns so now is the time to decide what to get.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_AT44_10_QE_Air_Rifle/3389

    My concern is I wonder if it will still produce the accuracy of the longer barrel gun that BB is testing.
    I know that’s a hard thing to determine and I’m thinking it will still do good with the little shorter barrel.

    Well I think I’m about ready to find out soon enough. Getting ready to hit the buy button. Or should I wait. Is there any specials coming with that Christmas in July sale. Or how about will there be a 10% off and free shipping coming soon. Seems like every time I order a gun the next day a coupon code comes up like that. And I better order soon or the money will get gone all but to soon then I will be out of luck.



      • Well you got me! when I followed the link you furnished, it led me to the gun in .25 cal with 19″ bbl. I thought you may had been suddenly overrun with coyote’s or maybe feral pigs or coons,or even zombies or something. I would think that as long as your part is done that 4″ ain’t gonna make that much difference except extremely long ranges.I like the Idea of the shorter bbl for it’s maneuverability especially with that long a muffler on the end of it.
        Have fun with it!
        Reb


        • Reb
          The hatsan I have has the 23 inch barrel with a 8 1/4 moderator on it so the overall length of the barrel and moderator is 31 1/4 inches, talk about long. I know the moderator does not do anything for accuracy but it is sure whisper quiet. It is made by hatsan for their guns and mine only has 6 baffles, they make one with 8 baffles. I am very happy with mine that’s for sure.

          Buldawg


        • Reb
          Yep I seen that it shows .25 cal. when you click on it. I had the .177 page up when I copied it and pasted it. But it reset back to the .25 cal.

          And we do have Coyotes that show up in packs in the back corner of the yard where the woods start. Our back yard is fenced and they have circled it before in the winter time. I seen them and their prints before. They was looking for food I’m sure.

          And we got all kinds of wild animals visiting all the time. But I wont shoot them unless they become a problem inside the fence.

          And zombie’s well I see them everyday when drive into town. ;)



        • Bear,
          If you’re referring to the” longer is better” rule, that only goes for pneumatics and maybe pillowtalk, not sproingers.

          Reb


          • Reb,
            I was replying to Gunfun and the issues he described in choosing a new PCP. I really do not believe in a simple rule. I think there is some math to do to figure out the optimum length of the barrel. Sorry for the miss understanding


            • No,it was my fault for trying to shuffle 2 conversations around in what’s left of my brain.I didn’t realize the mistake until I had hit the submit button but ther’es no way to delete errant comments so I waited for one of ya’ll to say something so I could apologize
              My bad,
              Reb


            • Bear
              The biggest reason I chose the .177 was because of cost. The shorter barrel one I chose was the cheapest of all the new QE rifles. And I sold some of my lower end guns and that’s all the funds I got right now. And the way I work it is I try not to take any money from the home funds other then buying pellets. I have had a lot of guns and what I usually will do is sell or trade to get another one that I want.

              And I would like to of really got a .25 cal. but the silly rules in Illinois say if its over 18. cal. it has to be under 700 fps. So PA wont ship that particular caliber gun to me. But those are the main reasons for the choice I made. Nothing to do really with the barrel length. Although I do tend to like a longer barrel. But that’s why the.177 cal. rifle. :)


              • Illinois airgun regs are that hampering? You must have a good job! I dislike living within city limits here in Texas because of the extra regulation. I wish I still lived in the piney woods of east Texas.Working with the Tx. Workforce Commission, all my applications state I’m open to relocation within the state.
                I’m still waiting to see what happens with SSI and the Dr probably won’t release me at my 6 month checkup especially after taking on that curb with my bike day before yesterday. Broke those ribs again,about 1/2 mile from the hospital, that last half mile sure was long!

                Reb



                  • The left side of my ribcage feels like it’s stickin’ out about 6″ and my shoulder feels like I spent a couple hours on a tacklin’ dummie. All in the name of better health through rehab!

                    Reb


                    • Reb
                      You got to get some training wheels or automatic outriggers to keep you on two wheel bro. You just can’t keep falling off and expect to heal. There is the old biker saying “keep the rubber side down ” man I hate it that you keep hurting yourself. It seem you are having the kind of luck I had a few years back where you just couldn’t win for losing. hope you get better and stay on two wheels.

                      Buldawg


              • Gunfun1,When I read that law in your state last night I wanted to respond but I saw RED and couldn’t find acceptable words that would be OK here for me to express myself so I just turned this thing off before I said anything. So now I’m a little more calm about that stupid law and I still will refrain from to much comment because I will get on a roll and over welcome my stay here with comments that will make no difference nor change any laws for you.I’ll just say now I understand why you don’t do 25 cal.Just kinda wondering,what would be the punishment for breaking this law? Slap on the wrist or execution by 25 cal. airgun? OK have to stop now.


                • Steve
                  Its not as bad as it sounds. Its just basically a little inconvenience. I can still own air guns above .18 cal. and over 700 fps. I just cant get them by mail order. I guess its considered a firearm in their eye’s.

                  And I guess I’m lucky that there is a privately owned gun shop right up the road from my house and I have known them for many, many years. So all I have to do is show my FOID card and he can get me whatever I want.

                  Oh and you must of missed what guns I have or had. FX Monsoon .22 Cal., .22 cal. Prod, 1st and 2nd generation Mrods in .22 and .25 cal., Benjamin NP XL in .25 cal. And maybe more that I cant think of right now.

                  They are all perfectly legal to own and shoot. Its just that the law won’t allow them to be shipped by mail. So I get to miss out on Pyramyd Airs wonderful sales when I want a gun over .18 cal. and 700 and up fps.

                  But whats funny is I can get any kind of firearm and gun parts shipped to the house. Like I said before silly laws.


    • Gunfun
      Why do you want the shorter barreled hatsan. Do you like shorter guns as there is only 4 inches difference or is the shorter one on sale versus the long model. I just know my 44 long is sweet, but with the moderator it is quite long. Just curious and I know you will like it no matter what length you get.

      Buldawg


      • buldawg
        Look at the response I left for Bear.

        Again money and politics made me choose something. And I really wanted the other more. But I’m happy. I think its going to be a fun gun either way. And now I got to come up with the money for a scope. Looks like I’m going to have to sell some of my RC airplane stuff.


        • Gunfun
          I did not realize ILL. had those kind of restrictions because you have talked about your 25 Mrod, I guess it is rated below 700 fps. I hope ILL see what Mich has done and follows suit. That is plain ridiculous to limit power rating on airguns. It could be worse and us live in Canada or the UK and be limited to 12 fpe. I know you like 177s and now I understand why because you are not limited to the power or fps.

          You will like your hatsan I know that for sure, and if it is to loud keep in mind the link a gave you to quiet it down.

          Buldawg


          • buldawg
            My 25 Mrod is above 700. You have to have what they call a FOID card in IL. to own a firearm. It stands for Firearms Owners Idetification card.

            So if its over .18 cal. and 700 fps I guess its considered a firearm. But it also states that air guns are now (not) considered fire arms. I have a FOID card for along time so it doesnt matter to me.


            • Gunfun
              I read where you mentioned you had a FOID card and did not know what that was, our politicians sure can come up with some meaningless laws sometimes you know. I guarantee whoever came up with that law has never shot an air gun and probably even a firearm. I would never make it as a politician because I have to much common sense to think up such absurd laws.

              You learn something everyday, and you know I sure am glad we grew up in the time we did because if I was a teenager right now I would be breaking some law every day I lived and actually probably are right now anyway. I really hate the world that my grand kids are going to inherit, because their freedom that they have now is so restricted that they will never know what true freedom really was all about

              Buldawg



                • Gunfun
                  Something drastic is going to happen that is a given, it is not a matter of if but rather when and it will not be for the better unless we have a major upset in the democratic lead bumbling idiots brigade in Washington right now. We need republican control of the house and senate to have a prayers hope of turning this country around at all.

                  Buldawg


                  • buldawg
                    I think the drastic thing that happens will be a bigger event then the change of government. I think the world will have to end as we know it. Then it will be up to the people that are left to make things right the next time around.

                    But maybe there won’t be anybody left. Or maybe it will be the government still left. No tell’n how it will turn around. Time Will Tell.


                    • Gunfun
                      Our gov’t will still be here, why do you think the NSA, FEMA and homeland security have been buying up ammo, bottled water and MREs by the billions from all suppliers in the world. They know what is going to happen and so does NASA and NOAA. The most likely event that will take place in the next 12 to 20 months is nothing you, me or anyone else can control. That’s if our economy doesn’t collapse first.
                      NASAS has been warning of a massive solar flare event that will occur on the sun in the next 12 to 20 months that will cause a massive EMP to occur in our atmosphere and literally bring everything in this world as we now it right to a grinding halt. Any thing that creates or use electricity will no longer operate, no power, no water, no food, no medicine, no phones, no radio, no sewage, no 911, no hospitals etc. We will be back in the dark ages so to speak and the only people that will not be affected by any great degree are the Amish people in Pennsylvania because they do not live with the modern conveniences that the rest of use require every day to survive.

                      It could also occur from an attack from another country like China or Russia, North Korea, Irag or Afghanistan because it is very easy and inexpensive to make a bomb that could be detonated 20 miles above the USA which would release it own EMP and shut the entire USA down in an instant.

                      so that’s is why a say it is not a matter of IF, but rather WHEN our way of life as we now it now will come to a END.

                      Buldawg


                  • buldawg
                    I replied here because there wasn’t a place below were you gave all the scenarios of what could happen in the coming months and the solar flares. Yep I already thought about all those things you described. But think about this. Maybe the government can make that solar flare happen with some sort of weapon or something. Now days there is no telling what is possible that can be done.


                    • Gunfun
                      It is very easy to make a device that will create a EMP, junior high school students in a science fair created a device with commonly available components the produced a electro magnetic pulse on a very small scale. It is a very real scenario that one of our not so friendly countries such as China, Russia, Afghanistan, North Korea, Irag, and so on can easily create a bomb known as a HEMP bomb ( high altitude electro magnetic pulse ) that can be detonated 20 mile above the USA that would render all electrical systems and devices useless in a mater of seconds. This countries power grid system is already running on borrowed time and has needed upgraded for over thirty years. Nasa has been warning our gov’t that a solar flare event will occur within the next 12 to 20 months that will likely create an EMP of sufficient magnitude to put us in the dark ages. We will have no choice but to live as our grandparents parents did when there was no electricity or any of the modern conveniences that require electrical power to operate. Our gov’t has protected themselves with shielding and underground bunkers that are protected from the effect of an EMP event whether it is from a attack from one of our enemies’ or natural causes. I am glad I camped out as a kid for so many years and still have my camping gear , I just need to stock up on propane tanks and sterno and batteries, water and canned foods. That is why a say the Amish people will not be affected by it nearly as much as the rest of society because they do not live with modern conveniences to this day and can keep food and medicines fresh and useable without refrigeration or electricity.

                      The next two years will be the time when we will see the changes start to occur and they will most likely take place in a matter of hours not days or weeks. Those that do not know how to live off the land and with out electrical power will be the ones to suffer the most and try to take what they need from whomever they can get it from.

                      Time will tell, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

                      Buldawg


                • Gunfun
                  Just giving you a FYI on my 60C valve repair. I think I have it fixed so it will hold up finally and you may want to try it on your instead of fitting the disco valve in it.
                  I have been fixing a chainsaw and weedeater for my neighbor in exchange for him cutting my yard for me. While fixing them I had to replace the fuel lines on the weedeater and the fuel line they use now is a very flexible silicone based tubing in 3 different sizes, the largest size looked almost like the seal material that Xisico uses on the valve in the 60C.
                  So I cut a piece about a 1/32 inch longer than the seal that came out of the valve in the 60C and worked it down over the shaft of the valve and it expanded right out and filled the recess in the valve between the stem and the brass head of the valve. It sticks out just barely farther than the original seal did when new and is more supple and resistant to tearing or being cut by the seat in the rear body of the valve. It also will seals much better than the original and when the valve was assembled it seemed to help keep the stem centered in the rear body of the valve, where before you could wobble the stem quite a bit in the body it does not wobble near as much.
                  If only hold up for a few month its ok, because I will just cut another piece and replace it at 1 buck a foot I will have enough to make seals for many years.

                  Buldawg


  12. bb welcome to the hatsan bandwagon… try and get your hands on the bt65… its a solid step up from the 44 and from my testing the accuracy is a little better..


  13. Hi BB,

    Your review of The Practical Guide to Man-powered Weapons and Ammunition by Richard Middleton reminded me that I had not reread the book in some time. I have gotten through the first chapters and I am reminded of what an enjoyable book it is. I hope others will enjoy it as much as I do.



  14. BB, I discovered that the action of my recently acquired Beeman C1 moved in the stock (forward when cocked, rearward when fired.) This did not seem to affect its accuracy. I glass bedded the action (tang, rear screw, middle screw and both forward screws.) The rifle has the same level of accuracy as before (.5-1.25 ” with a variety of pellets).Has any other member of this blog glass bedded their rifles, and what kind of results did they get? PS , groups fired at 10 M, indoors, artillery hold, 4X scope. Thanks, Ed


    • zimbabwae ed
      I don’t know about the Beeman C1 but I recently built a RWS 54 that has the sliding action system in it and it was a very accurate gun at 10 meters. that gun should not require as much of a loose artillery hold as non sliding action spring guns, that is why the action moves to absorb the spring recoil and allow you to hold tighter. I don’t know about glass bedding the action but the rear sliding assembly should have a set screw on the plate that the two sliding rods fit thru that sit against a spring and ball that fit into a detent in the bottom of the receiver tube that adjusts the tension on the action when in the forward/cocked position. If that is set to loose it may be allowing the action assy to move to the rear to fast and effect accuracy by causing the gun to jump more than it should. I know the 54 I built had a definite detent in the rear position that was difficult to get to move forward by hand and when cocked you could feel it drop into the detent position.

      Don’t know if that’s is built the same but it is worth checking and I believe you have to remove a screw or something to get to the set screw, I don’t remember for sure. Hope it helps,

      Buldawg



  15. Hey Guys & Girls,

    Broke out the EB22 this afternoon. Hadn’t shot it in a while. What a fun little plinking pistol. I had a blast with it. Soda can accuracy at 30′ plus all day with loose aiming. Much better than most inexpensive action pistols. Didn’t chrony it but sure feels like more than the +- 6ft/lbs. it should be getting at advertised velocity with 15.89 gr. pellets. Highly recommend for those who enjoy plinking with pistols.

    G&G


  16. Hey Guys & Girls,

    Broke out the EB22 this afternoon. Hadn’t shot it in a while. What a fun little plinking pistol. I had a blast with it. Soda can accuracy at 30′ plus all day with loose aiming. Much better than most inexpensive action pistols. Didn’t chrony it but sure feels like more than the +- 6ft/lbs. it should be getting at advertised velocity with 15.89 gr. pellets. Highly recommend it for those who enjoy plinking with pistols.

    G&G


  17. Hey,

    Forgot to add above this should be a pistol prime for modification. Almost same power as 2240, CO2, .22cal. and metal reciever.

    G&G


    • If the Hy-pac conversion would fit it would open up this gun for many more uses, unfortunately barrel swapping is out. It would make a nice holster gun!

      Reb


      • As to why the may have skipped .32 is there are all kinds of .30 and .357 but not near as many choices in .32. Also, the Asians have already been shooting these calibers for sometime now. We are just now starting to show interest in big bore again.


  18. Dear Buldawg, the Beeman C1 did not appear to be designed to slide in the stock. The screw holes in the stock showed damage from the back and forth movement of the compression cylinder. Ed




      • Mike in Atl,

        Thanks. I vaguely remember that now. Didn’t take it seriously at the time. It came like a bolt out of the blue didn’t it? I think doing that with zero explanation was very childish. No, he didn’t owe us anything but it was still childish all the more for that reason.

        G&G


        • G&G and Mike in Atl

          TT had his times that he would comment on a certain topic. And other times he would just make a single comment or none at all. He always had some good info to share.

          Maybe there was something that offended him or he was just tired of commenting.

          I did the car forums about racing and such for many years. Had good conversations and got into some not good conversations at times. Gave advice and got advice.

          I ended up having a lot of responsibility’s thrown towards me and had to deal with them among getting sick and other things. I didn’t have time any more. And there were some people on the car forums that I talked to all the time. Basically friends for along time. But I had to stop. And whats funny is different things have changed in my life from that point in time and I have wanted to go back and comment. But I just ain’t for that right now.

          I think if TT would come back and start talking again nobodys going to tell him to get out. But I don’t know what he thinks so that’s up to him. And who knows maybe hes got something to say to me. Won’t know till something is said.


          • Gunfun1,

            Thanks for telling us that. You’re right in that it could basically have been for many reasons. I should probably apologize to him. I do. I know life can get hard sometimes. Believe me, I know. Of course we would gladly welcome him back. I always enjoyed what he had to say. One of our better contributors actually as far as I’m concerned. We’ll see what, if anything, happens.

            G&G


            • Look, guys….

              I had been meaning to call it quits here for quite a while and quit wasting my time . I simply picked a point and gave notice. That’s it.
              twotalon


              • TT
                There is a point in time for everything.

                Wasting your time ?!? Not hardly.

                Things happen, times change but anything that can be said here to help is not a waist. Nobody’s tell’n you that you have to comment again. But you know you stepped up to the plate when BB was away on trips and helped out with keep’n things rollin.

                Maybe I’m wasting my time here. You know what’s funny is I have thought about putting on the brakes here and stepp’n out also in the past. The blog does take up some time of the day if you get involved with it. But I just keep finding interesting things to learn about. And there is people I like talking to.

                And if you start commenting again don’t worry about if anybody says something. Just have the conversations like you always did. I promise I will talk to you; unless you don’t want that happening.

                Its your choice do what you want. And if it is your last post I will end it this time with see you around had some good conversations and learned some stuff from you in the past. This time I’m not going to respond with “What does that mean”.

                So if this is it. See ya and have fun and be safe. And keep messing with air guns. And if your going to start commenting again. Well I get to say welcome back this time before BB does.



                • OK, but I will keep it few and far between .

                  The 500 is showing close to linear deviation at 50 yds. Most shots going into an inch or less.

                  I am having some doubts about a couple of things.
                  I don’t know if I have the crown clean enough. The crown lapped in funny. It wanted to keep growing feathers in the bore instead of being clean and sharp. Strange metal in this barrel .

                  Also wondering if the barrel is touching the bushing that it sticks through in the shroud. It resembles a vented front bushing for a Talon SS. Have no way to way to see. Adjusting the barrel band position may tell me something. Could be touching anyway. Pulling the shroud and measuring the distance between the barrel and air tube at both ends might tell me something. I know that the shroud gets just a little closer to the air tube at the front end.
                  I have options for fixing this if I want to mess with this , but it will be trial and error.

                  twotalon


                  • TT
                    I’m not positive but I’m betting the crown is the major part of the problem.

                    When I was cutting the Discovery barrel down and trying the different lengths on those 1377 Crosman pistols I was messing with the crown definitely made a difference.

                    The last time I cut it was at about 15” long. And I couldn’t hit a thing with it. I was thinking to my self that it couldn’t be from the shorter length. I recrowned it another time and it definitely got better but not right. So I tryed one more time and then I lightly used some brown scotch brite on it and whatever happened that time around it worked. They were almost dropping one pellet on another.

                    And it sounds like that barrel might be softer metal. We actually have more trouble machining softer metal at work verses harder metal. It tends to get gummy like when its being machined. Almost like the metal is tearing. Is that what you mean by feathering?


                    • GunFun,
                      I used to deal with this on some of those German cars. They cut pretty clean but so soft you had to keep a real close eye on ‘em. But the rear rotors on the Expeditions were the worst!I was applying pressure to keep chatter down when the weighted silencer band turned loose and ripped open the web of my hand.
                      Welcome back Two Talon!
                      Reb


                • GF1

                  I am leaning to the crown also, but have to watch shroud position too.

                  This barrel is different from the other LWs I have crowned. Instead of a fine burr that seems self limiting during the lapping process, it continues to build and looks like foil growing in the bore. I think I will retry it and take extra care to get it all cleaned out . Very strange metal . Each has its own nature, but this stuff is strange .

                  twotalon


  19. BB, I see Pyramyd Air has the Umarex Fuel in stock now. When will you be doing a review on it? I have a Umarex Surge but the recoil and vibrations are too much for me. I am hoping the Umarex Fuel will have less recoil and vibration. What do you think? I may just be too old to shoot the break barrels. I have 2 and cannot shoot either of them accurately, even after I watched your video. I am very happy with the accuracy and sound of the Umarex Fusion.


  20. Reb, I bought it at the Stormville N.Y. fleamarket earlier this month. C1,s have not been made since the 1990,s , when Webley went out of business . It is a used and slightly abused (light rust, barrel, triggerguard) rifle. I am happy to have found it, even with a few ouches. Ed


  21. Slinging lead, thanks for the info. What is interesting to me is that despite a loose fit in the stock, the C1 was able to shoot .5- .75″ groups at 10M. I wonder if the action had moved from side to side instead of fore and aft, if it would have been less accurate? Ed


  22. I’ve been looking for a list of mainspring and gas spring specifications. Does anyone know of one or do I have to look them up individually?

    Reb


  23. AT-44 is a good pcp but never ever fill the gun more than 185 bar !!!
    for some reason when you fill the gun too 200 bar you get 5 or so shot very inaccurate
    but if just fill the gun up to 185 bars you get 20 to 25 onsistent shots actually 20 is more likely


    • man
      I will disagree with that that statement as I have a AT44S10-Long and it is filled to 200 bar every time and I get quarter sized groups at 50 yards with no problems from first shot to shot 25 to 30 depending on pellet weight. I get 40 use able shots per fill, the last ten are slightly lower in fps and fpe but still effective and accurate. Mine is a 22 cal and I love it, you may have got a bad one I don’t know but I do not have that issue with mine. mine shoots 25.62 gr H&N rabbit magnums at 50 yards in groups of .635″ for the first 29 30 shots and then they start to open up.

      Buldawg


      • Hey buldawg
        I did order my Hatsan and they say its ready to ship but no tracking number yet.

        And I had to make a decision yesterday about a scope. I don’t have the extra money to get one right now so I decided to Take my Hawke scope off of the HW50s. Its the scope like you just got for your Hatsan.

        Then I put my Leapers Golden Image scope on the HW50S. Its this one.

        http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Leapers_Golden_Image_4x32_Rifle_Scope_Mil_Dot_Reticle_1_4_MOA_1_Tube_Weaver_Rings/2980

        These are real clear scopes when you look through them like the Hawke scopes. And look at the price 50 bucks. And I sighted it in on the HW50S yesterday and it works wonderful. Its a fixed AO but with the lower 4 power magnification it keeps the scope focused nice and sharp at pretty much all distances. I think it will work out better for the closer in shooting that I do with the HW50S.

        The Hawke scope is going on the Hatsan I’m getting. I’m sure I will be trying it out at the longer distances from time to time so the Hawke scopes new home will be the Hatsan.

        And I just read above. I just may have to try that trick out on the 60 c valve that you talked about.


        • Gunfun
          I think you made a wise choice by deciding to put your Hawke scope on the Hatsan as it will benefit way more from it than the HW does and I have a Bushnell 4×32 on my 2289 and it is also very clear and good at close and long distances,

          I will get my 2240 tomorrow and as luck would have it I just scored another 2240 with the 1399 stock from gunbroker for 55 bucks plus shipping from GA to AL. So now I will have two 2240s, one to swap my 2289 parts onto to make the PCP conversation and then still have a 2240 and 2289 plinkers to play with.
          Life is treating me good right now. I will let you know how the fuel line seal trick hold up on the 60C. If it doesn’t last long I have some more things to try, I refuse to give up because I like the feel of that gun so well. The Hatsan is great but it is more suited for out hunting in the woods than backyard plinking like the 60c is.

          Buldawg


          • Buldawg,
            I believe I was watching this very pistol! Not like I had the money to bid on it but, good job! Is it the one with the plastic breech? It was a good deal and the guy selling it sounded like he knew what he was doing.

            Reb


          • buldawg
            I had that same Bushnell scope on the 2240 conversion that The guy at work just got from me. It was a pretty good scope too for the cost. I think I paid 30 bucks for it. And glad you got the 2240 thing happn’n.

            And I have had a bunch of stuff going on right now. Kids registering for school and book fees cloths for school and all that fun stuff. Been trying to fit my gun stuff in with out the rest of the family getting upset with me.

            So ain’t had much time to think about the 60c. Trying to get the ones that are shootable on the money and done. Pretty well under control now. But I will have to put some time in with the Hatsan now and get it right before I get back to the 60c. But yes the 60c was a nice shooting little gun. I will get it fixed up that’s for sure. Its not ready to die yet. Alot more life left in I’m sure. All in time you know.


            • Gunfun
              Yea the 2240 on gun broker started out at 40 bucks and I had already ordered my new one from Crosman on ebay, but I thought for 40 bucks why not and it ended up at 54.75 but I figure I can always sell it and get my money back. But most likely down the road it will end up with a steel breech, longer barrel and the Hi-pac + 2 on it also because I know my two g-kids are going to fight over the 2289/40 that I will convert soon so might as well have 2 so they both will be happy. I mean ain’t that what grandpa is supposed to do.

              Yea the pistol from gun broker is a plastic breech and it looks new, he stated it was a couple years old and had used it for pest control.

              Yea I am glad I don’t have school stuff to worry about having to buy all those supplies and such. I don’t remember my parents having to buy all the items kids need for school nowadays I believe back then the gov’t actually used some of the tax money to support schools. I know I pay a tax for schools in part of my property taxes now but I don’t see where it is used for schools.

              I hope my fuel line fix hold up I have only shot it a couple times just to make sure the valve was working right and the pellets would actually fire out the barrel fast enough. the main problem I was having was it holding a air charge with the valve seat materials I had tried it would leak down over night, so I made sure it shot and charged to 2000 psi and it has been holding for three hours now so we will see in the morning. If it holds the pressure I will sight it in as I just put a 3×9/32 Bushnell scope on it because I took the Hammers 3×9/40 AO scope off it and put it on my 40 buck springer. The Hammers scope is magnum spring gun rated and came with a one piece pinned scope mount.

              Let me know how you like your Hatsan when you get it. Did you read the post by “man” above stating not to fill over 185 bar because it will not shoot accurately for the first 4 or 5 shots. He must have got a bad gun because mine gets filled to 200 bar/2900 psi and shoots 30 shots with about 8 to 10 fps deviation max and the last 10 are still only maybe 20 fps lower. I know my 22 gets 40 good accurate effective shots per fill and you can still get another 10 that are good for 15 to 20 yards, so I would say 50 shots total before absolutely having to refill. You may even get more with your 177 caliber. I have not took mine apart or done anything to it other than mount scope, fill gun and sight scope and have fun shooting and I don’t think I will mess with it anytime soon, it just to good as it is to try and improve right now.

              Buldawg


              • Buldawg
                Yes you need to shoot with those grand kids as much as possible. I only have a few memories about my grandparents and thy are all good memories.

                And I did see that comment about the fill psi. All I can say is there is no way for me to tell what your gun wants to be filled to with the pellet choices you made. Same as there is no way that you can tell what my Hatsan will want to be filled to with the pellet choices I make.

                And I can tell a few stories about what fill pressure will do to a pcp gun when shooting. All I can say is you got to spend time with the gun and find the pellet that groups the best at the distances you want to shoot at. And fill pressure is something that you refine as you shoot the gun. The more you shoot it the more you learn what it does as you use that air up in the gun.

                So to just make a general comment that a given fill pressure is the magic psi for that particular gun. Well I ant that good yet unless I can shoot it for a while and see.


                • Gunfun
                  I agree that there are to many variables to say that this brand gun only shoot good at this pressure or with this pellet. every gun is unique unto it self.

                  It just like saying if I do this modification to my car and you have the same car and do the same thing that they will perform exactly the same, you know from your drag racing years that what works for one person does not always work for another person or what works today may not work tomorrow.

                  It take time, patience, practice and repetition to get repeatable documentable results with any thing in life. I learned that very well at Harley when testing two identical bikes on the same duty cycle and had different failures or issues that only showed up on one and not the other one.

                  My 60C held pressure for six hours today so I shot a fill up with about 25 shots from 2000 psi down to 700 psi before you could tell it was falling of the curve. No chrony test just seat of the pants and sound of report for judging. Refilled to 1500 psi and it is holding steady. It sure is loud compared to my hatsan

                  Hope you get your hatsan wed and have some tine to shoot it before the weekend.

                  buldawg


                  • buldawg
                    Yep that’s exactly what I’m talk’n about. You can try to build them the same but all the little differences add up.

                    And I’m glad that seal is holding up in your 60c. You will have to keep giving the updates on it. I hope that I will get back to mine soon.

                    And pretty sure I will have the Hatsan by Wednesday. If I order over the weekend it usually goes out Monday unless there is a holiday and makes it to me by Wednesday.

                    And I already have a good feeling that the JSB 10.34′s will work out. They performed in a lot of guns for me so far. But you never know. And by the way I did order another extra clip with mine. It comes with 2 already so I was banking on it to make 30 usable shots. I’m hoping anyway. Will see how it all goes.

                    Oh and when are you going to get your hi-pac ordered for your 2240 conversion?


                    • Gunfun
                      Yea no matter how diligent a manufacture is and how much quality control there is there are always stack up tolerances that will make two identical items different. Heck you know that from your job when you make something even with the CNC and CMD programs used, no two parts are perfectly identical to each other.

                      The 60C has held 1500 psi over night so its is good so far and like I said last night I shot 25 times so I hope it will holdup.

                      I think you will find you will get more than 30 shoots with your Hatsan. Did you order the fill adapter to thread onto the Hatsan probe also, it does not come with one. It has the probe, but you need a BPSS female thread to foster fitting to thread on the fill probe. You may already have one for one of your other guns. I am going to get me one more mag for mine because I can get 40 shots with mine that are in the curve range and I only have three mags now, I think you will need one lf not two more myself. My hatsan likes the heavy pellets also so those 10.34 gr should work good.

                      I am getting some more stuff sold on ebay to pay for the Hi-pac parts so it may be a week or two. It will give me the time to get all the parts swapped from the 2240 and 2289. so when I do get the Hi-pac in will be plug and play. I should have my one 2240 here today and I got some CO2 powerlets so I can break it in a little before I tear it apart.

                      Buldawg



        • There’s not much room up there where this conversation started so I’ll talk here.
          That florescent chartreuse fuel line is some nice stuff eh! I saw a gal commenting on an old posting about the S&W 78/79G earlier taking about filling it in with some sophisticated epoxy that I’ve considered trying on my 392. I have a couple exhaust valves layin’ around and will probably do something to one & see how it works or use it for backup. Hope it works well for you Buldawg, keep us informed.
          GunFun,
          Congratulations on your order! It’s still gonna be a long weekend. Those guns are sweet!

          Reb


          • Reb
            Thanks about the Hatsan. I been looking at them for a while. And the 50 yard test BB did got my attention; then he just did this 100 yard test and well it got my attention more. So that kind of got me hooked.

            There was a few other guns I have been eyeing also. So I almost got one of them. They were cheaper guns so I could of got one of them and a new scope for it. But decided on the pcp thing. Once you shoot a pcp gun its hard to go back to the springer’s and nitro pistons. For me anyway.

            And yep it will be a long weekend. And I don’t have the tracking number but they say its ready to ship. So if it goes out Monday I should have it by Wednesday. Will see how that goes. But yep I’m excited.


          • Reb
            I used to have some of the blue fuel line like the chartreuse line that they use on weed eaters and chainsaws now for my motorcycles fuel line. It was bigger like 1/4 inch or 5/16 ID. and I looked all over my garage trying to find it and looked at Lowe’s and other hardware stores and all they had was that hard plastic clear line that was not the right size. I never thought about weed eaters and chainsaw fuel line till my neighbors stuff quit and needed the line replaced.

            So it has worked out good as I have fixed a couple small problems on two of his cars and fixed his chainsaw and weed eater in exchange for him taking care of my yard work. My friend that usually does my yard work for me is having to have some foot surgery cone and a hip replaced so he out for the rest of the grass cutting season and I can’t do it myself because of my arthritis. Also I don’t even own a lawnmower and haven’t for 10 years because my friend only charges me 30 bucks to keep my yard work done.

            Reb, read the post I left for Gunfun about the fuel line fix and I will let you how it holds up in my 60C.

            Buldawg


            • I need to get out in my yard and do some cutting after it cools off.I sure am glad I got my chainsaw going this spring! The city hauled 4 big stacks of trimmings and a dead Elm, I kept some of it and whatever Oak came down. Now it’s broke down again over at my Brother’s after cutting up 2 Pecan trees

              Reb


              • Reb
                You going to, be able to hang on to a chainsaw with your broke ribs and other injuries. You know if you are applying for SSD they do go around and check up on what you may be outside doing. I know of 2 people that got denied for being seen doing yard work while applying. Now once you are approved for SSD you are allowed to work and earn up to 800 dollars a month, makes no sense but then our gov’t makes no sense either so that’s par for the course.

                Buldawg


                • You know,you’re right! I couldn’t start the mower without really messin’ up my ribs.Don’t get me wrong I wasn’t trying to get the chainsaw goin’ again much less use it,just cut the grass. I was doing that my first week out. If that stuff don’t get done around here they bulldoze the place!


                  • Reb
                    You don’t have any friends, family or kids to help you out. If you live by yourself and got no one to help you its going to be hard to ever get healed up right. I wish the best for you.

                    Buldawg



  24. Id like to give everyone here something to think about, especially because this is often associated with ordering things, but if you have or have thought about using prepaid debit cards, there’s a company that rhythms with green snot that I suggest you read the customer reviews before trusting with your money, me and my wife learned the hard way.


    • RifleDNA,
      That Bites! I’ve never used one.It’s been over 5 years since I had a debit card but every time I need to order something someone volunteers their card so I won’t get one(or they want the cash),I had heard “not so good” things about them but checked it out anyway.It was gonna keep my money tied up! Never did it and never will!
      How long til you get it back?


    • RifjedDNA
      If you are going to get a prepaid debit card to make purchase’s it is just as easy to get a postal money order and pay with it and you are at least protected from money theft or fraud. I don’t understand the need for a prepaid debit card because if you have the money to get the card you should have the cash to get a money order or cashiers check and at least you have some protection with them.

      Buldawg


  25. TT
    It sounds like soft material. We use carbide tools and kick the rpm up and feed it slow if we have the tearing going on.

    If you use high speed or kobalt tooling it will probably chatter at the higher rpm.

    And how does AA keep the baffles in place. Do they use a spring that is a little smaller than the shroud inside diameter. And does it rest on a end piece that slips on the barrel. The Benjamin/Crosman shrouded guns are like that. Some times the spring doesnt keep the baffles pushed forward to the end cap tight enough. Maybe thats going on.

    Either way have you been getting any kind of shooting in. And did you get to try those metal mags out?


  26. GF1

    I can’t tell how the parts are held together .

    Not much shooting lately. A lot of things going on.
    The Metalmags are not first choice so far, so not for much distance. 18 gr Exacts are still doing best.

    twotalon


    • TT
      Well whenever you get things squared away with the stuff going on let me know what you get accomplished with your air guns. Talk to you later then.


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