Hatsan BT65 QE: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Hatsan BT65 QE
Hatsan BT65 QE air rifle

This report covers:

• How quiet?
• Stronger pellet trap
• Fills with a probe!
• First pellet — Benjamin domes
• Let’s talk
• You make the call
• Next up — the JSB Exact King pellets
• Beeman Kodiak pellets
• Bullets
• Trigger-pull

How quiet?
I felt like a new airgunner because I didn’t know what to expect from the .25-caliber BT65 QE air rifle. I was planning on taking it to the range the next morning, but if I could shoot it safely in my office without blowing out the windows, I could save some range time that was sorely needed for other tests. It all came down to just how quiet this Quiet Energy precharged pneumatic really was.

I had already tested Hatsan’s reviewed the AT44-10 Long QE and knew that it was very quiet, despite being reasonably powerful. But the BT65 QE is the most powerful smallbore rifle Hatsan makes. In fact, they are basing their big bore airguns on this very powerplant. So, by “quiet” do they mean in comparison to a 30-30, or do they really mean quiet?

I warned Edith what I was about to do, then closed the door to my office and touched off the first shot. Bravely I did not elect to wear hearing protection, because I really needed to know the answer.

While the BT65 is not stealthy, it is quiet. It makes about the same noise as a magnum spring rifle. So you may not want to shoot it in your backyard if your neighbors live close and are touchy; but if nobody’s home, then at 100 yards no one will know you’re shooting. I was able to shoot the entire velocity test in my office without hearing protection.

Stronger pellet trap
I did have to use my beefier pellet trap, though. This is a very strong Homemade pellet trap blog reader Jim Contos shared with us back in 2011. Whenever I shoot an airgun that develops over 30 foot-pounds in my office, this is the trap I use. It’s a quiet trap that’s similar to the Air Venturi Quiet Pellet Trap, and Jim showed us how to make this one for ourselves. The only reason I don’t use it all the time is because it’s smaller than my regular pellet trap.

Fills with a probe!
Before I could shoot the rifle, it had to be filled, which was when I remembered that all Hatsan PCPs fill with a proprietary Hatsan quick-disconnect probe instead of a more standard Foster quick-disconnect coupling. If you only own one precharged airgun, this is no problem, because your fill tank will always be set up for it, but I shoot dozens of different PCPs all the time and most of them now use the Foster quick-disconnect coupling. My fill hose had to be changed over to the Hatsan probe to fill the rifle. Fill pressure is 200 bar (2900 psi) according to the owner’s manual. But the manual also recommends filling to only 190 bar, and I discovered in this test that on my tank’s gauge the needle must stop at 180 bar for the optimum velocity.

First pellet — Benjamin domes
The first pellet I tested was the .25-caliber Benjamin dome. I selected this pellet because past testing showed it to be very accurate — a trait that isn’t shared by all .25-caliber pellets. This one is worth trying.

As I said, the first shot was a quiet surprise. But the reaction on the pellet trap wasn’t that quiet. Dust seal was blasted everywhere, as the quarter-inch pellet ripped in with the power of a .22 short. I wanted to see the power band, so here are the first 24 shots.

Shot   Vel.
1         915
2         919
3         925
4         933
5         919
6         940
7         933
8         946
9         950
10       954
11       964
12       968
13       967
14       960
15       964
16       959
17       955
18       957
19       940
20       943
21       934
22       919
23/24  718 (double feed)

Let’s talk
First observation. This rifle’s bolt has to be pulled back REALLY hard to cock the rifle. If you don’t do it right, you won’t cock the action but you will advance the circular clip, which sets you up for a double-feed. I doubt most men will be able to cock the BT65 while it’s still on their shoulder because this rifle has to be cocked very deliberately. I certainly could not do it. And that’s why shots 23 and 24 were a double-feed. Two pellets were fired at the same time on that shot.

Next, this string shows that the max fill pressure is not 3000 psi (207 bar). I hadn’t found that information in the owner’s manual yet, but the shot string plainly shows that the velocity is on the increase when it starts. That means the valve is partially locked, and the fill pressure has to be lower. After the last shot was fired, the air reservoir on the gun had 1,800 psi remaining.

You make the call
This is why you need a chronograph. Because you need to decide where you want the rifle to start in velocity, you need to know how high to fill it. My guess at this point was about 180 bar, but that’s debatable. Which shots would you want your rifle to have?

I like everything from shots 6 through 21. That is a total of 16 shots on one fill. But if you want to accept a different spread in the string, you’ll have a different number of acceptable shots on the fill. The choice is yours. Just know that you need a chronograph to make the choice.

That doesn’t mean that you must have a chronograph to own a PCP. Plenty of PCP owners don’t have chronographs and do just fine. They use their results on targets shot at long distance to determine where the best shots are. They just don’t know what velocity they’re getting.

If we take my string that starts with shot 6 and use the first 10 velocities, the Benjamin dome averages 955 f.p.s. That means this 27.8-grain pellet produces an average 56.19 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Hatsan claims 52 foot-pounds for the .25, so they’re being conservative. That 10-shot string varies by 28 f.p.s. from the lowest to the highest.

Next up — the JSB Exact King pellets
Another great .25-caliber pellets is the 25.4-grain JSB Exact King. I shot another string with this one also starting with a 3,000 psi fill to confirm what I suspected about the power curve.

Shot        Vel.
1            915
2            922
3            933
4            936
5            942
6            944
7            952
8            958 (180 bar)
9            961
10          967
11          977
12          984
13          988
14          985
15          990 (158 bar)
16          994
17          990
18          991
19          992
20          980 (148 bar)
21          978
22          964
23/24     DNR (double-feed that didn’t record)

I stopped at shot 23/24 because the rifle was clearly falling off the power curve, and also because it was a double-feed. There might have been 1 or 2 more shots in the string. Do you notice that this string is similar to the first one, but not exactly the same? On this one, the gun comes on the power curve (in my opinion) at shot 8 and falls off at shot 23. That would be the same 16 good shots as with the first pellet, but perhaps I could have shot it a few more times at the end. The reservoir contained an identical 1,800 psi after this string.

If you take the first 10 shots from my chosen string (starting with shot 8 and running through shot 17) with this pellet, the average muzzle velocity is 979 f.p.s. That give us a muzzle energy of 54.07 foot-pounds. Again, the test rifle exceeds the stated muzzle energy.

Beeman Kodiak pellets
Next, I tried the 31-grain Beeman Kodiak pellet. This time I only filled the rifle to 180 bar, so I knew there would be fewer shots. The first shot was a double-feed and shot 3 was below the curve at 906 f.p.s., but shots 4 through 13 registered a low of 920 f.p.s. (shot 13) and a high of 935 f.p.s. (shot 7). This power curve was much steeper and shorter, giving only 10 good shots on a fill. I might have squeaked a couple more out of the gun with this heavy pellet, but the velocity went up and then down again pretty fast.

The 10 shots that I did record gave an average of 927 f.p.s. That works out to a muzzle energy of 58.17 foot-pounds. That will be very close to the maximum this rifle will deliver, for the Kodiak pellet just fits in the circular clip. But I had one more thing to try — a 72-grain bullet that I cast. This bullet is for the 25-20 WCF, but it’s fairly light at a nominal 65 grains. Mine weigh 72 grains because the alloy has more lead and less tin.

Bullets
This bullet does not fit into the rifle’s clip as it drops from the mold, and my bullet sizer only takes it down to 0.258 inches, which is still too large. Perhaps a 0.256 inch bullet might work? Tin Starr bullets is working on a lighter bullet for me to try later. If it works, I’ll test the energy for you.

Trigger-pull
The trigger-pull of the BT65 is clean and crisp. Stage 2 breaks at 2 lbs., 15 oz. out of the box, which is ideal for a sporting air rifle of this power. I adjusted it down to 1 lb., 10 oz, but then stage 2 became less positive. As this release weight is too light for my tastes, I adjusted it back to the factory setting for the rest of the testing.

I think the BT65 lives up to its advertising so far. I can’t wait to see how well it does at 50 yards!

99 thoughts on “Hatsan BT65 QE: Part 2

  1. BB
    A little while back I asked about swaging .25 caliber…….pellets. I was going to say bullets but I don’t think that’s right.

    It was about that pellet that looked like the old .20 caliber Sheridan pellet.

    I almost made the swage tool but decided not to after reading the blog more.

    I learned that the size or fit to the barrel was important. And weight could be controlled along with the size of the pellet to the bore.

    Do you think that if the size and weight of a sawaged pellet could be controlled and a consistent pellet could be made.

    Could that possibly be a pellet choice for the Hatsan.25 caliber QE?


    • GF1,

      Yes, I think it would be easy to control the weight of a swaged pellet for a .25. Just make sure the lead slug you start with is uniform.

      If any pellet rifle will handle it, this BT65 would be a good one.

      Read what I did with swaged bullets here:

      /blog/2013/08/swaged-bullets-part-2/

      B.B.


    • Paper patch? No… butterbands? Maybe? Hollow base if thicker wall might still engage with this much power. So lets see, its got good power, consistent string with several pellets, indoor volume control, can’t wait to see the accuracy test!


  2. BB,

    I guess I do not understand the “double feed” part in the test. I think of the 92FS pistol and it’s rotary mag/clip and try to picture it. Of course it does not have a bolt.

    While I do not understand it, I would guess that pulling the bolt back, advances the mag. and when pushed back, readies the gun for the next shot. Does it also push the pellet (from) the mag. and (into) the barrel breech at the same time?

    Are double feeds common in similar guns?

    Sorry, just a little confused on the double feed bit. Maybe a short video if you can replicate the situation?

    Thanks, Chris


    • Chris,

      I thought I explained what was happening here:

      “This rifle’s bolt has to be pulled back REALLY hard to cock the rifle. If you don’t do it right, you won’t cock the action but you will advance the circular clip, which sets you up for a double-feed”

      A double-feed means that 2 pellets are in the barrel to be shot instead of just one.

      Some airguns are made in such a way that double feeding is more common and has to be watched. You just do whatever is required to not allow it.

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        Thanks for your comment. As you know, I am not into PCP’s at this time.

        And yes, you did explain that.

        What I did not understand, and not sure I do now,…is that the pellet is loaded into the breech (leaving the mag, even though that the rifle is not fully cocked).

        At that point, the gun won’t fire, and the bolt is cocked AGAIN, advancing the mag. AGAIN, and pressing another pellet into the breech AGAIN, behind the first one.

        Close?

        Sounds like something could get blown up with all that added back pressure of 2 pellets.

        Can’t be too good on the gun and valve system as well.


    • Chris,USA
      The bolt on a Hatsan is actually a lever style arm that when pulled back can be pulled far enough to allow the magazine to advance one index for the next pellet to be loaded as that is what actuates the small link that rotates the magazine but unless it is pulled back completely by about another 1/2 inch it does not actually cock the hammer. So if you are not paying attention and actually do not pull it back all the way as the last 1/2 inch is quite a bit more pressure to cock the hammer it is possible to load a pellet into the barrel with out cocking the gun so that when you pull it back again to load and cock it you can load another pellet as well as cock it so know you have to pellets ion the barrel at the same time. It is possible to load more than just two into the barrel if you are not paying attention and actually pull it back till you hear and feel a definite click and stop on the lever.

      It is something I feel they should address by not allowing the probe to engage the next pellet or rotate the magazine until it has been fully cocked as my AT 44-10 22 cal is the same way only it may require less pressure to actually cock due to it being only 22 cal as compared to 25 call since the hammer spring would be somewhat lighter.

      BD


      • BD,

        The lever that turns the cylinder/clip is progressive, so it has made most of its arc before the sear is approached. There isn’t a way of holding the clip in place until the gun is cocked.

        The action could be redesigned to allow this to happen, but I suspect it would become more complex.

        B.B.


        • BB
          I know in it present state that is true but it would not take much to redesign it so that the magazine is not rotate until the sear is actually set as it could be a all in one linkage that cocks and rotates in one motion instead of rotating the magazine before the sear is latched and ready to shoot.

          It can and is a liability issue that one day in this sue for anything that my idiot self caused nation we live in know could potential cost Hatsan a boat load of money,

          I mean if you can get a million buck for spilling a HOT cup of coffee in your crotch because you are dumb enough to put it there in the first place then anything is possible as has been proved over and over in this country in way to many cases that should never have made to court ion the first place.
          People are no longer made to be accountable for their own actions anymore.

          BD


      • BD,

        Your reply helped explain the how’s and why’s and some of the mechanics behind this.

        That is immediatly where my head goes when trying to understand mechanical things.

        Not just, if you do this,..this happens. Why? How?

        Too much info. and not needed for the average person, and maybe even not me, but that’s just how my mind works.


        • Chris,

          Here is something similar, It is possible to cock some TX and Weihrauch rifles without setting the safety. Then the gun will fire without taking it off safety.

          It’s also possible to pull a Diana 48 compression chamber back to almost cock the rifle and set the safety, but not quite. then the sidelever cannot be returned home.

          these are timing issues in the mechanicals of the guns.

          B.B.


          • BB,

            Thank you for this and the above reply. It’s good to know I am learning something.

            😉

            I know it takes a lot of years and tearing down a lot of airguns to understand the “guts”, how they work and why.

            You commented yesterday, that your “style” is best suited to new airgunners and also that, “If 1 person ask, there must be 100 more out there that are wondering the same thing,….that did not ask”. Too often, I feel like the one. But that’s ok. I wish more “newbies” would join in. But then again, you would get bombarded more than you do already,……one thing I will say,….is you got one HECK of a “crew” of experienced people that “got your back” and help take on the load.

            Looking forwards to your new “mini-books”.

            Chris


            • Chris,.USA
              Glad I was able to explain the way a hatsan cocks and can double feed and I think that BB should have been aware of this possibility and made very sure the gain was in fact fully cocked to start with since he is supposed to be the expert here ,

              BD


          • BB.
            BD,
            Chris,USA,

            Gentlemen FEAR NOT for Hatsan has solved the “double feed “problem.According to the P.A.website advertisement for the Carnivore rifles(item #5 in the description),an anti double feed solution has been instituted in that line.

            BB,Sorry that the cast bullets didn’t fit.And I was soo waiting.I’m wondering about this cast bullet idea, or a swagged slug solution, for the Carnivore in .30cal.How do we know if it’s power is enough at 75 fpe.?It is more power than this rifle has but it is also a bigger bore.

            How does the sizing die do it’s job?Does it shave off a tiny bit,or is it like a micro swag action?Does one need to have that reloading equipment to use one?

            Tin Can Man


            • TCM,
              Apparently a press doesn’t have to be used in swaging lead projectiles as I considered ordering a .22 die set frrom a guy in Australia or New Zealand that consisted of an upper and lower die(bring your own hammer)but I don’t recall if the guy still had all his digits


            • TCM
              I have no fear as I make sure my lever is fully cocked before shooting and I am glad to hear such a extremely expensive and difficult solution was actually completed without much difficulty and expense.

              BD



        • Chris,USAS
          The only stupid question is the one not asked so don’t not ask because you think it is not worth asking because if you don’t know or understand you never will until you ask for help.

          We all need help at one time or another so that’s what this blog is for to ask and answer questions.

          I go into very deep detail from my days at Harley as test mechanic for the durability fleet bikes that real people rode to try and break and I got to diagnosis and fix the problem, then write a very lengthy and detailed report for the engineers to use to correct the issues that I found and documented for them to read so that is where I get my in-depth and through documentation and it is a hard habit to breaks.

          BD


  3. A simple pellet trap I use in my garage is a 5 gallon paint pail with lid that I got from Lowes, along with a bag of shredded rubber mulch from the garden department. I cut a 3 inch diameter hole in the center of the lid and tape my target over it, using the 10 or 12 bull targets which I cut into individual units. This has contained every airgun I own with no impact noise at all. With a well moderated gun you will only hear the ping or thunk of the gun. Cheap and simple.


    • Christoph,

      You are a genius. What a wonderful idea for a pellet trap.I was talking with my son last night about extending my backyard range with another pellet trap using your idea, Thanks for your post.

      Mr. B.


    • Christoph,

      Welcome to the blog.

      Your pellet trap sounds like it works. I just want to warn you that in WW II one of the companies that made the M1 Carbine used 10 feet of wet sand to stop the bullets from the guns they test-fired and they ended up shooting through the cinder block walls after the first shift. The wet sand displaced and never fell back, so after 100 or so shots had been fired, there was a clear path through the sand to the back wall.

      B.B.


      • I use the rubber multch too but I just fill a cardboard box with it. I get a box that’s 12″ deep by 10″ wide by 12″ high. I staple my 8×10 target to the front and just tape up the holes with duct tape when I shoot out the center. Total cost is around $10.

        It works better then the electricians putty I used to use. It’s cheeper and lighter. The multch doesn’t seem to shoot out. And I can even reclaim all the lead, just shake the box and it falls to the bottom.

        It will stop a .25 maurader at point plank range. I’m taking a friend to ta private range this weekend and I’m going to see just what it will stop. Starting with a ruger 22/45 then a 9mm handgun, .40, .45. If it stops the pistols I’m going to hit it with a .223, 30-30, and then. A 30.06. I don’t think it will make it past the .223. But I think it will stop 500lbs (.40)



          • Hi BB,

            My trip to the private range was postponed ( they went hunting, without me, punks). So I took my freind to the public range. Angeles, a very nice range. I managed to talk the range master into letting me shoot my pellet trap with my 10/22 at 50 yards. It stopped 10 rounds dead center. 50 gr at 1080 fps. I didn’t want to push my luck so I didn’t get the chance to hit it with a 40 cal pistol, but they let me shoot it with my AR. Well ok, my freind Doug shot it when I wasn’t looking. It stoped the first round. But his second shot was high and right and I think it flew out the back corner. I’m going to take it apart and inspect it to see how far the lead traveled. But I’m confident this type of trap will work for any caliber air gun. It stoped a 3,000 fps 55gn. I didn’t think it would do that. Very impresive, I’ll take picks and do a write up for airgin guys who are interested. I got the idea from teds holdover. I’ve heard indoor pistol ranges are going to rubber mulch systems, this seems to be a proven method.


    • The duct seal, in a 2×4 and 2×6 box, backed by 2×6 and an 1/8th steel plate and again 2×6, with 4″ of ductseal depth, I’ve witnessed, stop a 44 magnum hollowpoint! Won’t last long though…



    • Christoph:

      I too use shredded rubber mulch for my pellet trap, except I use cardboard box instead of pail. I just tape a new piece of cardboard over the front when it starts to get badly shot up. I too have never had a pellet go through it. I actually have two pellet traps – one uses an old notebook computer box that is about 3 ” thick that I use with my Crosman 1377. The other is a box that is about 8″ thick that I use with my magnum springer. I like the idea of the pail or kitty litter can – both would give me a handle to carry the target.

      BB:

      I understand you caution about shooting in the same place. I’m sure that would eventually bore through the box. I just shake the box when I replace the paper target and the mulch will settle, preventing the shoot through.

      Jim


  4. My pellet trap is an empty kitty litter box stuffed with rubberized plastic sheets from a discarded archery target. I have lots of kitty litter boxes and worn out (center only) archery targets. Ed


  5. “This rifle’s bolt has to be pulled back REALLY hard to cock the rifle.” Would this lighten up over time? If not, I sure would look elsewhere for a .25 PCP.

    Mike


    • Mike,

      I don’t think the bolt will lighten up, but I do think the shooter will get used to the gun and cock it more reliably as time passes. You don’t want to write the BT65 off too soon, because there aren’t many repeaters on the market that are as powerful or accurate — or so I have heard.

      We shall see.

      B.B.


      • BB
        I have the AT 44 s10 in 22 with the 23 inch barrel and it is the same lever setup which does require a definite intentional pull all the way back to load and cock but I have never had a double feed as I suspect the hammer spring on the 25 cal is a good bit stronger as well.

        But that does not bother me because as you say there are not many PCP guns on the market with the power the Hatsans have as mine shoot some old ELEY magnum 30gr bullet shared pellets I luckily found on ebay for 20 bucks at 870 fps for just over 50 fpe out of a 22 and they are accurate enough to put them inside 3/4 inches at 50 yards and blow holes thru 1/16 inch washing machine metal backing at that range. So I do like my Hatsan as it is a power house.

        BD


      • BB,

        The BT 65 QE in.25 is on my short list. In fact it’s sitting in my cart on Pyramid rite now waiting for my tax return to come in. It’s power, rep for accuracy, and adjustable stock are what attracts me to the rifle.

        Do you think the bolt can be worked on, lubricated, polished parts etc… For smother operation, or is this just a limitation of the mechanism?


  6. BB, on the use of the chronograph: a lot of shooters around me spend all their money on a PCP rifle and nothing is left for the chrono, so they all keep filling their guns to the top fill pressure. You mention that the proper fill pressure can be also determined by the pellet impact, not using a chrono. I can understand how they do it, but have you ever compared the results to see if one method would lead you to a different result? By “result”, I mean a different power curve, or a different fill pressure limit.


    • Fred_BR,

      That is just guessing and I don’t think it is very accurate. I have never seen any kind of a guess compared to chrono results, but if I had to do it, duct seal would be the best medium.

      Spaltology, which only works with round pure lead balls, is almost as accurate as a chronograph. I have used it to get to within 50 f.p.s. of the actual velocity.

      Read about it here:

      /blog/2009/09/splatology/

      B.B.


  7. It’s a good idea to standardize all your fill fittings to male foster ends. That way your able to quick change to any rifle/pistol combination from pump to bottle. The fill probe with Hatsans AT platform and Evanix are interchangeable they where within a .001 in dia and the air ports are close enough in length to work. The Hatsan magazine looks like Gen 1 Evanix was used as inspiration, so I’m not surprised other areas are similar.



  8. I am surprised that so many PCPs are not regulated.

    My AR20 and HW100 are not fussy about air pressure at all. As long as the pressure is more than the minimum the regulator is set to the pellets velocity doesn’t change much from full pressure down to where it falls off the reg.



      • Thanks BB!

        Optimum initial fill pressure and the bell-curve always get a lot of attention in the reports which kinda implies it is a big concern.

        Never had to deal with it so I was making it more of a problem that it really is. Guess that once you have done a bit of testing you have the numbers for that rifle and away you go.


    • Vana2,

      Just looked up both guns on P.A. All I can say is WOW !

      BB’s comment on “a well balanced valve” got me to thinking as well.

      No reply needed, just WOW !



  9. Hi BB,
    can’t wait to see the 50 yard test, this is leading up nicely to the introduction of their new big bore. PCP rifles like this and the Galatian series look to be the kind of rifles that will attract new shooters into the airgunning world.
    Off the subject, I picked up a Webley Alecto in .22 a few months past and have really been enjoying shooting it (the additional exercise has been good, too). I don’t remember you going into depth on the type of compression mechanism.. How are they able to generate so much power from 3 strokes? And why wouldn’t some manufacturer try something similar in a rifle – since the extended length would help with pumping? I remember years ago someone converting a Sheridan Blue Streak into a Field Target competitor and modifying it so that only 3 pumps were necessary. Just curious.


  10. B.B. and Gang

    Front page story in Sunday’s Washington Post about Gun Industry support for collegiate shooting teams. Some interesting photos of students and their pistols and rifles.

    Gun industry’s helping hand triggers a surge in college shooting teams
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-industrys-helping-hand-triggers-a-surge-in-college-shooting-clubs/2015/03/14/6bc31f4e-c8cd-11e4-a199-6cb5e63819d2_story.html

    You may need to register to see the article. I don’t know because I’m a Post subscriber and have been registered for a long time.

    Enjoy,

    Jim


    • Jim K.,

      That is a very encouraging article. I do wish the slant had been just as much toward airguns as firearms. Airguns are mentioned but the slant is on firearms. I’ll take it though. I wonder if any of the airgun organizations are involved in this movement? Thanks for sharing.

      G&G


  11. Crow funeral.

    Most of us know what happens when you shoot a crow, and when other crows notice that. The whole colony gathers and swarm around the scene of the crime….. making a lot of noise. In my country hunting crow is forbidden. But in our village they terrorise the neigbourhood and all the little songbirds. So I do hunt them. I used to take heart/lung shots, but after one crow flew away 20 meters and dropped dead on my neighboors car….. I only take headshots ever since.

    Yesterday I shot a crow, thinking I could take the crow undetected by other crows. Boy…. I couldnt be more wrong….not only did his colony come to the funeral…..at least two other colonies visited the funeral. It was a complete mayham. Never seen so much crows together.
    So much for shooting undetected crows….

    Does anyone know if in the breeding seizon, different colonies interact more than usual?


    • dutchjozef,

      What are crows afraid of? Owls? What if you brought a full-size rubber owl statue with you when you shoot crows? Keep it under wraps til you drop one, then pull back the cover and scare off the other crows until you bury the body. Don’t know if that will work . . . trying to think outside the box 🙂

      Edith


      • Edith:

        A group of crows is called a murder of crows for a reason. Get enough crows together and they might just attack an owl. I’ve seen them attach a hawk when we were using a crow call to attract them.

        Jim


    • Dutchjozeph,

      Interesting story,….I never would have expected that kind of “fellow crow” reaction. Instead, more like they would all fly away.

      From the sound of it, your out numbered !

      In fact, it sounds like you need a “full auto-belt fed” airgun.

      Thanks for sharing that, Chris


    • Dutchjozef
      Send the crows to Alabama as they are nuisance birds here and fair game all year long so if they hold funerals that’s just more target practice for me.

      I wish I could get just one to see how long it takes for their family to arrive.

      BD


    • Hmm, new idea.

      Don’t know why I haven’t tried this yet.

      Semi-auto FX Monsoon verses starling flock.

      But what’s crazy about the starlings is sometimes they fly after the first shot sometimes they don’t.

      I bet if I open up on them with the 12 shots that I’m going to be lucky to get even 2 birds.


      • Gunfun
        I just wish they would feed in the field behind my house so I could get to shoot at them but they always seem to feed in the neighbors front yards.

        BD



  12. BB
    I just thought of something that could cause a problem with the bullets or the swaged pellets.

    The side will be smooth. If the .25 caliber magazine is like the .177 Hatsan QE that I had it uses a o-ring that holds the pellet in place. That o-ring catches in the waist of the pellet. It keeps the pellet from sliding for ward or backwards out of the magazine.

    I can see the nose of the pellet or bullet possibly getting a small piece sheared off. That could cause accuracy problems and you would never know that was happening. The nose of the pellet or bullet would be mushroomed or damaged at impact.

    Maybe they won’t move around in the magazine. But its something to keep a eye on. Especially when testing the big bore Hatsan QE if it has the same type of magazine.



  13. B.B.,

    I feel confident this rifle is going to be a real shooter. I don’t understand why it is so difficult to cock though. I have not heard of this issue with any other PCPs including big bores.

    Also, I was wondering if Hatsan has plans to offer the QE Series of rifles with wood stocks. On that subject, for anyone who’s interested, I have ordered the 1077W with the wood stock.

    G&G


  14. Now that I’m thinking about it. My Hatsan A44QE that I had must of had the fix for the double indexing. I could back as many times as I wanted but it would not double index.

    The reason I remember is because I was trying to feel if the pellet was dragging in the clip when the bolt probe was loading the pellet. Also if the pellet was mis aligned with the barrel from the clip not indexing true to the barrel.

    I do believe that was part of the accuracy problem.


  15. Also has anybody heard of the new Predator pellets that have the .050″ shorter polymer point to fit the clip and magazine guns.

    I wonder if they will make a short tipped metal mag for the same reason.




        • Gunfun
          I think if they did they would sell good as the 22 cal metalmags shoot quite well in the hatsan, their not the most accurate but good enough to hit your kill zone on a medium sized animal.

          BD




              • Buldawg.
                I do believe Hatsan listened when they introduced the QE models.

                I mentioned multiple times with the changing times in modern air gunning that a pcp gun should be made with or have the option of a shrouded gun.


                • Gunfun
                  I agree with you on that although I am glad they offer it with and with out the option as I wish Benjamin would do also since it is nice to have the option to use it or not when you wish to be quiet or are not concerned with the noise.

                  That’s one reason I bought the Hatsan without the built in moderator so I could have the choice and it was on sale for a price I could not refuse which I admit was mostly the main reason.

                  But as I told you I found a Hatsan made moderator for it for a very reasonable price and it work extremely well and actually better than the marauders do but then it is 8 inches instead of 4 inches so it should be twice as quiet.

                  BD



                    • Gunfun
                      I will be bringing it for sure along with several others as well.

                      I have left three messages and it says his mail box is full so I may just have to wait till the match in April to talk to him and I will bring the firepower as he most likely will have the 2240 but it may not have a barrel and he will just have to ship me one or get it at the next Heflin open match in May 16th and 17th.

                      I have not heard from Lloyd yet either so I may just fill the gun to shoot it a few times just to see how many shot I get per 2000 psi fill as if I remember right he said the 16.5 inch tube was 105 cc and the 14.5 inch tube was 87 cc. So it will be interesting as to how many shot I get per fill and at what tune level. I would like at least 20 at 750 to 800 fps. So I may just play with it some until it get the rest of the parts.

                      BD




                    • Gunfun
                      Yep talk tomorrow and I will try out the disco barreled gun I got from you with the 16.5 inch tube and let you know how it works out.

                      BD



                    • Gunfun
                      I had a bad night again with leg and feet cramps so I have not even got to shoot any gun as of now and got to go get some groceries in the house so I doubt I will get to shoot today, but I will let you know when I do get to shoot it .

                      BD


  16. BB,
    I’m in the market for a nice PCP that is quiet enough that the swat team won’t swoop in on me (again) if I shoot it in the backyard and accurate enough to take out slugs and spiders in the garden 50 yards away while I enjoy my early morning cup of coffee. I’m an old grey haired lady that cant cock a Beeman kodiak or any of those big magnum springers anymore so was considering a PCP but you scared me away from this one when you described the bolt as “really hard to pull back.” What do you recommend for a powerful (over 900 FPS in .22), nice looking (wood stock) PCP that is quiet, capable of immediate follow up shots and able to do a string of 20-30 shots before it needs to be filled?


    • Tina,

      Okay, you’re an old gray-haired lady. What airgun would I suggest for you?

      I would suggest a Benjamin Marauder, except it’s too heavy for you. And the accuracy is sometimes not what it should be.

      I would suggest an AirForce Talon SS in .22 caliber. For $700 you get a rifle that will hit those garden spiders at 50 yards. But it hasn’t got any wood, so you wouldn’t like it.

      Maybe a European PCP would be good for you? Look at the guns from Air Arms. I am not the one to tell you about them, but several of our readers own them and can tell you what they think.

      B.B.


  17. B.B.,

    First off, thanks for your mention of my PVC pipe cap pellet trap. While the front steel piece now has a bowl shaped crater, the second steel piece and the PVC cap are both as good as new. Maintenance has been a matter of adding duct seal to the middle of the trap.

    I’d like to add something to the great mix of trap ideas. It could save someone from putting a hole through a wall, something no one who reads this blog has ever done…

    Cutting boards! There are cutting boards behind all of the traps in use here. They are sandwiched between the wall and the back of the trap as a final layer of protection. Traps include a Beeman clay trap for multiple bull targets, the PVC trap, and the often mentioned box o’ rubber mulch design. The cutting boards were on clearance at restaurant supply house and are pretty substantial.

    The rubber mulch design has become a favorite here. It is an extremely quiet design that is very cheap to make. An occasional shake to settle the rubber mulch and a top off is all that’s needed.

    Thanks again.

    Jim C.


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