by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
My Beeman R8 Tyrolean is an accurate pellet rifle that I enjoy shooting
This report covers:
- RWS Superpoints
- Vogel pellets
- Air Arms Falcon pellets
- Discussion
- Conclusion
Today I move back to 25 yards and we see how these three pellet shapes do. I shot 10-shot groups from my Beeman R8 Tyrolean off a sandbag rest at 25 yards. The scope setting was not changed for today’s shooting from where it was for the 10-meter test.
RWS Superpoints
You may recall that RWS Superpoints were the pellets that surprised me the most in the first test. They gave the tightest group. Today 10 Superpoints went into 0.464-inches at 25 yards. That’s larger than their 10-meter group, but it’s still impressive. I am changing my opinion of pointed pellets — at least in this rifle.
Ten RWS Superpoints went into 0.464-inches at 10 meters. The point of impact shifted up as expected, and also went to the right a little.
Vogle wadcutters
Next up were the Vogel target pellets. These I expected to begin spreading out. At 10 meters they grouped 10 in 0.379-inches between centers. At 25 yards the group measured 0.472. That’s much tighter than I expected. However 25 yards is about the limit at which wadcutters hold together. At 50 yards I expect to see a group that’s perhaps two inches or larger.
Ten Vogel wadcutter pellets made this 0.472-inch group at 25 yards.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
Air Arms Falcon pellets are the ones I was most excited to see at 25 yards. In the past these pellets have been extremely accurate in this R8. This time 10 of them went into a group that measures 0.509-inches between centers — the largest of the test again. Ah — but this time 8 of the 10 pellets are in 0.286-inches. That is about the group I expected for 10 shots with this pellet from this rifle.
Ten Falcon pellets went into a group measuring 0.509-inches between centers — the largest of the session. Eight of those pellets are in 0.286-inches, which is closer to what I expected the entire group to be.
I watched as shots number three and seven flew apart from the main group. The hold for those shots was perfect, so I cannot say I did anything to send them astray. The other 8 shots show what the rifle can do — and even wants to do with this pellet.
Discussion
Once again the Superpoints gave me the tightest group. They are becoming something of an embarrassment, because they fly in the face of what I have been saying about pointed pellets for so long. They were an afterthought when I began, but I’m glad I included them in this test.
The wadcutters are holding their own with the Superpoints at 25 yards. I expected to see them start to spread, although I’ve seen wadcutters do well at 25 yards a few times in the past. But beyond 25 yards they have never held together in my experience. The test at 50 yards will be an interesting one!
I think the Falcon group shows part of what I had expected to see at 10 meters. The tight 8-shot group shows my past experience with this pellet in this rifle. The 2 stray shots are not what I have experienced. I might need to clean the barrel, though I won’t do anything until this test is completed.
Conclusion
This test was really just an excuse to get me shooting my R8 again, but look at all I have learned! I am really anticipating that 50-yard test!
BB,
Pelletgague testing time on the Falcons? Inconsistent head sizes?
Jim
Jim,
Not in this test. This is a test of the performance of the pellet shapes.
B.B.
BB
Don’t clean the barrel until you have ruled out head diameter variation. Your R8 barrel may not want to be clean.
Decksniper
Decksniper,
This is gettin’ confusing. 😉
B.B.
BB,
Maybe worth the time to sort your pellets for the 50 yd test to rule out the possible inconsistency of your sample pellets. But this is interesting – I like the concept.
BB,
Have you looked at the Air Ventury V10 match Pistol? It looks interesting on paper but I am hoping for more information. Thanks.
/product/air-venturi-v10-match-air-pistol?m=61
Jim
Jim,
Unless I am mistaken, the V10 is the Gamo Compact.
Jim,
I tested one a few years ago.:
/blog//?s=Gamo+Compact&btnGo=
The biggest difference is Gamo made the trigger adjustable on this new one. I tested one of those a long time ago, too, and the trigger could be adjusted very fine.
B.B.
BB,
I remember reading the series on the Gamo Compact but did not realize that V10 was the same pistol. I’ll reread the Camo Compact series.
Thanks,
Jim
BB,
So you are doing this whole test series just so you can rub in our faces that you have a superb sproinger that is no longer available. The gall. 😉
RR,
Aww! You peeked! 😉
B.B.
BB,
This test is showing something else besides pellet shape and performance. It is also helping to illustrate the relationship between sproinger power and accuracy.
If we observe the performance of your Beeman R8 and then compare such to the performance of your Beeman R1, I believe we can come to the conclusion that generally speaking, the more powerful the sproinger, the less accurate. If you were to compare the performance of the HW95 with these, you would probably find the accuracy would fall between the two of these. All three are from the same manufacturer and have the Rekord trigger.
In your experiments with the R1, did you not observe that accuracy improved as power was reduced?
RR,
What you say is somewhat true. However rifles like the TX200 tend to be exceptions to the more power is less accuracy rule. In general, though, I would agree with you.
B.B.
BB,
Can we state here that when a rifle is that accurate, the pellet is not of importance anymore?
With accurate I mean that balanced (good barrel, exact the right power, good trigger and you name it) that the rifle is near perfect in everything. In that case it seems that the pellet form is less important that previously expected (if the pellets are of good quality)
Which means that we have a new requirement for a good rifle: it must be capable of use different pellet types and still be accurate in the range it is intended to use.
For instance: your Beeman shoots well at 10 and 25 yards but is expected not to do so well at 50 yard wich is in my opinion also the largest distance it will consistent perform anyway.
If this is true you have made life a bit harder for all rifle makers as the perfect rifle is a combination of all properties resulting in rifle which is superbly indifferent to the pellets which are used.
Seeing this, I would hold on to this Beeman for dear life. It is not always that you can find such a rifle.
Regards,
August
August,
I had not said it the way you just did, but I do think you are right. In fact, that gives me an idea for another test like this.
As far as holding on to this rifle — you bet!
B.B.
August,
BB is probably as surprised as us that all three pellets are doing this well so far. If I recall correctly he has tested other pellets in this particular rifle and most did not do so well.
My experience with not only air rifles, but powder burners is you will end up with just one pellet or load that will work well. Sometimes you will have a couple of other pellets that work almost as well, but even then they will have a different point of impact, sometimes drastically different. I had a Gamo CFX that liked the H&N FTT and grouped the JSB Exact almost as well, but almost two inches to the right.
The fact that these groups have so close as the same POI is amazing, but I think in the next test we will see some drastic differences in groups.
RR,
Gosh, I hope we see that! 😉
B.B.
Could we be seeing the effects of improved manufacturing methods?
Perhaps pointed pellets are more accurate these days?
Does anyone have “old” RWS Super points to compare to these recently manufactured ones that are performing so well?
BB, I also find pointed pellets quite accurate in my 10.5- 11 fpe evolution copy up to 25-30m. In fact it shot 14.8 grains pointed pellets the best and could put 10 in 6mm at 16.5m in my backyard. Domes struggled to keep 14mm at the same distance. But .22 airguns got banned in August this year here. My bad luck.
But I think it is more with the gun you are shooting. It will probably shoot nearly all pellets this good?
BB, how much power does the r8 generate? I have heard lower power guns generally like pointed pellets.
But again nearly all the guns I have shot hardly break 12 fpe and not all of them like pointed pellets.
Riki,
” .22 banned in August “,….. that is a bummer. It sound as if things are getting worse,… not better.
If they were “banned”,… that must mean that prior to August that they were (not) banned. So,….. what are the people to do that already .22 air rifles and what will the availability be of .22 pellets in the future?
Riki,
This R8 is putting out 7.3 to just over 8 foot-pounds, depending on the pellet.
B.B.
B.B.,
Nice shooting there young fellow!! Yesterday was in the low 60’s and mostly sunny so I broke out the TX and LGU ( .22’s ) and shot 3 ten shot groups with each at 30 yards. I was just playing and not trying too hard and ended up with 6 groups all under 1″ with the largest amount of holes in 3/4″. (18.13 for the TX and 15.89 for the LGU, both JSB domes)
Again,… nice shooting and looking forwards to the 50 yard testing.
Chris
B.B.
I see something strange about your group sizes . If the groups had increased in a linear fashion from 10 m to 25 yds, the groups should have been considerably bigger . Even bigger under normal conditions .
This does not figure .
twotalon
TT,
Groups do not grow in a linear fashion. I used to talk that way, too. If a gun shoots an inch at 50 yards it will shoot two inches at 100 yards. But that’s not always the case. It might still shoot an inch, or it might expand to three inches.
I don’t know the reasons for this. I just observe that it happens this way.
B.B.
B.B.
Luck of the draw on groups ?
I like to shoot several groups to look for consistency . Even if they are 10 shot groups .
tt
TT
What’s been up? You still shooting that FWB?
GF1
Been a while . Not the best conditions .
Had been a bit concerned if I was having scope problems or if it was just the wind playing with me .
Still not sure .
Have other scopes, but not really good conditions for playing around .
tt
TT
I got lucky with about 4 good days of very calm wind. But it’s back now.
At closer distances like 50 yards and in the wind hasn’t really bothered the pellets with the guns I have been using. They are bigger caliber guns and heavier pellets. Now the .177 caliber guns making power and with a heavier pellet. They start getting blown around out at about 50 yards. Now long distances at say 100 yards and out where I’m at. The wind can change around in a blink of a eye. Sometimes it stays steady, sometimes it changes directions.
I found that if I shoot a gun alot in different conditions. I can tell if it’s the wind affecting the pellet or if the gun is shooting differently. And then it’s always nice to have another accurate gun around to see if it’s getting blown off the same kind of ways as the other gun. If it’s hitting dead on. Then I look harder at the other gun. But if it’s getting blown around in a fairly similar way. Then I know it’s more than likely the wind if I haven’t cha anything else.
BB, one reason could be that in some cases the bullet “Orbits” around a central point. So, if the bullets print a three inch group at 100 yds., at 200 yds,, they could drift back in and you end up with a 1.5 inch group at the greater distance. Spin drift also plays a part too. Check out the “Coning Theory of Bullet Motion”. It will make your head spin, it does mine.
Mike
Big Iron,
I would have guessed that you could end up with the same size group with 2 different pellets,…. but have them land at a different POI at the same yardage. I would (not expect) that the spiral/cork screw would tighten as distance increases ( your 100/200 yd. example). I have not read those books. I always assumed that the groups will (always) open up the further out you go. Interesting.
That stuff would fit well with the “what is accuracy” article started awhile back.
BB
Well does this not beat all? I would have expected groups to grow in linear fashion. I shoot at 10 meters only at home. Guess I could stretch it to 25 and do some tests.
Decksniper
This is where a lot of testing methodology falls flat on its face, I have plenty of rifles that will do well with one pellet at 20m and a pellet that I would otherwise discount at that range has superior ballistics at 30 to 50m, this isn’t even an anomoly it’s actually the norm, H&N FTT are a killer for being st the bottom of a 10m group and then gradually losing their disadvantage as you reach out
Dom,
I think you are telling us to keep an open mind. I have to agree, though it’s hard for us old silverbacks to do. Seen too much, I guess.
B.B.
Its easiest demonstrated with an Rws Hobby, out shooting a JSB Jumbo at 10 yards, we really wouldn’t expect that advantage to continue at 50 yards, the same goes for lightweight alloy pellets, we understand that, even if its top of the 10 yard group, there’s going to be a point where pellets that have been mediocre at that range are going to perform better, the Bell curves cross over.
Weight and energy retention are big parts of it.
I’ve said it before but H&N FTT hold energy significantly well at 30m compared with a shuttlecock design like the JSB’s and RWS and this extra velocity can change everything at 50 yards.
Working out which pellet a rifle likes needs you to be thinking about what typical range you might be using it at
My HW35 loves Hobbies at 10m, JSB Exacts group best at 25m and 35m, I’ve got to give it, marginally to H&N FTT, a pellet that groups 50% larger than the hobbies at 10m
Add in the fact that the H&N are retaining 25% more power at 40m than the JSB exacts and the least accurate pellet at 15m turns into my best 30m bunny basher
I recommend, when you have established which pellet the test rifle likes at whatever shorter range, as you really start reaching out in later parts of the test, throw in a pellet that hadn’t performed that well at the shorter range, provided its well made and fairly consistent on the chrony
As a sort of “wild card”
I think you’ll find the results illuminating as often as not
Chris, the pellets will be available for only next 2 months then they will sit in our closets. I have 5000 pellet stock but they won’t last very long. The .22 pellet manufacturers have also been told to stop manufacture. Nearly every Indian airgunner has a .22 (I have 2) which will have to be ditched or stored in the attic. Basically anything above 4.5 mm is banned, including 6mm airsoft and even cap guns as per new law. God save my soul!.
BB, a 8fpe gun putting in half inch groups at 25m,, you are on the verge of curing my magnumitis. 🙂 the 50 yard test should do the rest. Do you plan to test the pointed pellets in the tx200, to see how they do at a higher power?
Riki,
Do I plan to test pointed pellets in the TX200? Well, I hadn’t. My plan was the retest the Walther Terrus, which I have now treated with Tune in a Tube.
This test is growing into a monster with a life of its own!
B.B.
Riki,
This is indeed the cure for magnumitis. The Brits hunt with air rifles at under 12 FPE. Their “secret” is accuracy. You do not need a tremendous amount of force if you can place your shot properly. I recently watched a video that if my feeble memory serves me correctly was by the gentleman who does the Airgun Gear Show, in which he was successfully shooting eggs out to 100 yards.
“What good is 50+ FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at?”
To kill a rabbit with a shot behind the eye you need around 7fpe in 22 and around 6fpe in 177, as you creep out the range with just 12fpe, penetration becomes more important than outright energy which is why you’ll see 177 favoured a lot in UK hunting, it flies flatter and is marginally more forgiving to slight aiming errors and penetrates further through fur and feather.
There is a totally different hunting culture here, if you can’t drop a rabbit, right there, where its hit, then you won’t get a second invite, none of this “following a blood trail” or “wound channel” malarkey, you switch that animal off at the plug or don’t come
Dom,
That is my philosophy. I want my quarry to drop dead when hit with no suffering. I have always been a head shot guy.
If you turned up at a deer hunt with a crossbow, air bow, black powder gun, etc etc in the UK you would be invited to explain to the rest of the hunt how it will provide a cleaner kill than the Sako 270 that everyone else is carrying, then you would be invited to leave in a procreation fashion with some vigour.
And that filters down through most elements of gun sports
Riki,
What about rebarreling the airguns from .22 to .177? How doable/feasible is that over there?
I hope and pray that sort of thinking does not get into some legislator’s head. Then again there is no money to make with such a law. Registration is bad enough.
Siraniko
Riki,
Thank you for that first hand insight. Many people shoot indoors (only) for various reasons. I enjoy shooting at 41 feet in the Winter. The extra noise adds to the excitement. In fact, I shot my 92FS .177 outdoors the other day and my bb rifles and it was not nearly as fun. Matt61 shoots at something like 5 meters.
Instead of trying to hold a 3/4″ group at 30 yards,… I just try to make 1 hole groups at 41′. My indoor traps are homemade and are 1/2″ plywood boxes with cut out fronts. In the back is a sheet of .125″ steel and a swinging rubber matt hangs between the front and rear. It is not quiet, but it works. Hopefully at some point you can have an indoor range for your .22’s.
I would say that at least fire them once in awhile even if it is only for 1 or 2 shots. Keep them oiled and wiped down to prevent rust. It is not good just to let things sit for long periods.
I wish you the very best.
B.B.,
Wel, now I am surprised. Each of the pellets surprised me at 25 yards. I suppose it might be that the Vogels are doing unusually well for a wadcutter at this distance because of their “pedigree.” But in all, each pellet is challenging long-held beliefs.
Curiouser and curiouser,
Michael
B.B.,
Off-topic (and please if you watch the show, no spoilers for those here who are behind in episodes) but in the latest episode of HBO’s excellent series “Westworld” there was a rare need for a character to use a futuristic firearm, and I swear it was an Umarex Morph (without buttstock or barrel extension).
Many of the early episodes prominently feature an Uberti replica of the LeMat. The replica, as I understand it, is modified for .38 Special bullets, and the show has a character loading his with .38s. That is not an error; however, as the show takes place in the future. The theme park is set in the old West, but everything takes place in a vague future.
Each episode is a veritable cornucopia of 19th Century weapons.
Michael
Michael,
Sorry. No watch.
B.B.
I just once again checked out the scene in the latest episode with the Umarex Morph in it, and I have no doubt that it is a Morph. The prop folks did add a couple small details to the right side, but yep, Morph.
Michael
Siraniko, rebarreling is impossible here.
Ridge runner, I myself have always hunted with the 11 fpe .22 but recently switched to 13.6 fpe .177 due to the law. Badly placed shots never kill irrespective of power, neck shots taking out the spine kills instantaneously. A friend of mine had a gamo rifle of 27 fpe( he was the son of a politician) and was far less successful than me in hunting because he almost never connected . But I just want to know how does it feel to shoot a accurate magnum like the Diana 350?
Chris, I have a indoor range of about 10m and the backstop is my maths book backed again by a steel plate. I shoot a lot as I have to crack shooting events to get a arms license. At my backyard of length 16.5m, I shoot out .22 pellets with the new .177 and it is indeed very satisfying. Thanks for your tips and wishes man.
Riki,
Do keep in mind that with sproingers, the more power they have, the more difficult they are to shoot accurately. Right now, if I was interested in buying a uber magnum sproinger I would give serious consideration to one of the new Diana N-TEC line such as this one.
/blog/2015/05/diana-340-n-tec-classic-air-rifle-part-4/
This one seems to have made BB pretty happy.
RR,
Since you are getting set up for HPA, check out the California Air brand of low pressure air compressors. I have the 5510 SE which translates into 1.0 HP and 5.5 gallon tank. It has a gauge, runs super quiet, 2 cylinders. It runs about a minute for 2 times during a 25 min. tank fill. 3.10CFM at 40 psi and 2.2 CFM at 90 psi. Life expectancy is 1000 hrs. for similar compressors and this is 3000. By having 2 cylinders it can run at a lower rpm which = less heat and quieter. 178$ out the door. Ordered through Lowe’s and picked it up.
Just thought I would pass it on for when you are doing your homework.
Chris,
I appreciate it. What will likely happen is I will not go with a Shoebox, but an Omega. Thanks though. If I small compressor dies sometime, a nice two cylinder would be sweet.
RR,
That was my first choice as well. But, I came to the conclusion that simpler is better. Plus, when talking to Joe B. (the tank guy),… he used to carry them and quit. Too many problems. Do your homework and best of luck and wishes for whatever you end up with.
Chris,
LOL! I was just over at Lloyd’s house a couple of weeks ago and he had two Shoeboxes that needed overhaul. Hmmmm…I think that whatever you have, you need to keep on top of it.
I have met Joe. I bought my HM1000X from him.
I’ve had some success with the Crosman Hunter pellets. They call them a pointed pellet, but the point isn’t as distinct as the pointed ones you show here. It’s more of a rounded radius before the point. These come in .22 and .177, and my 1322 and 1377 carbines both like them the best of the pellets I’ve tried in them. My 2400KT Custom Shop CO2 carbine does also. But, I don’t generally shoot farther than 11 yards.
Strange how different airguns can be. Most of my guns don’t like the Crosman hollow points at all. Yet, in my 1077, they are the distinct favorite by a large margin.
I buy the hunting “field pointed” crosman pellets by the carton. They work well in my Beeman p17, where they make loading easier and range is not an issue, and they work great in my qb36-2. With the rifle, they shoot decently over 75 yards for plinking, though irregularities make them a less than optimal choice for groups. I would like to see what they can do with real sorting technique — I just ignore the obviously defective ones.
The crosman hollow points are great in my Diana 34. They were the internet recommendation to break in 34’s and the Ruger xhawk clones years ago, and many found them the best after testing. For my purposes I found they worked well enough that I’ve not tried much in the way of alternatives. Of course, not shooting for groups, just practice offhand at 25 and 50 yards. The 34p is amazingly similar to my flintlock, just a couple feet short and much chunkier in the fore end though not as bad as many air rifles.
I realize cheap pellets don’t always work, but it’s nice when they do.
Hello, all,
I saw this possibly relevant test of “cheap” pellets on Youtube…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATQFjRBdM3U
Jerry,
Very nice. Thank you for that. 20 minutes. I had a few pop up adds that came on in the video,… but clicked off after a few seconds. First time with that on YouTube. Do not like that.
The video is quite nice for showing that cheap pellets,…. and guns to some degree,… are not the way to go. Very simple test and very easy to see results. Of course, weigh and head sort for the ultimate,… but these were low, mid and high end pellets pulled random from the tins.
Thanks,…. Chris (P.S. It is amazing that so many good shooters often find the Crosmans doing best in some guns. That has always puzzled me a bit.)
When I first shot my marauder .22 my best groups out to 34 yards were with Crosman pointed pellets. I did not shoot past 34 yards back then. When I ran out of the that first tin, the next tins were not so good. I wish I tested that first tin at 50 yards, but I don’t have a safe location for that distance at home.
I have heard that it is not the shape of the pointed pellets but they are a hard shape to make concentric and uniform.
The 50 yard tests will be very interesting.
Don
This is the highest level of airgunning. I can appreciate the effects from the effort that I am pouring into my perfect reloads. Maybe that’s why I don’t have effort left for experimenting with pellets. But I’ve also been lucky. The JSB Exacts, RWS Hobby pellets, and HN match pellets work great.
Gunfun1, congratulations on your success with the Maximus. You are an interesting test case of the one gun theory since you have been the model for the multi-gun shooter. So, this has extra weight coming from you. They say that converts are the most enthusiastic, like St. Paul from the Bible. 🙂
ChrisUSA, I’m glad to share my discovery. But it’s worth pointing out the relevance to the one weapon principle. You’re supposing that what might work for me will also work for you and that the weapon is not completely individualized. So is a good weapon transferable or is it individualized? How about both. 🙂 And now I will follow Slinging Lead’s advice to run for Congress. Just kidding. Seriously, I think the two ideas are compatible. A well-thought out platform increases the chances for performance and sets the stage for one to choose preferences. Accordingly, there are physical characteristics of my knives that support good performance. They are small enough to be able to control for rotation and speed, but weighty enough to stick. They have long points to penetrate which are robust enough not to snap off. They’re also cheap at $22 for 3! For a good start to knife-throwing you can try the Gil Hibben cord wrapped knives in the large size.
Matt61
Matt61,
Thank you for the recommendation. Throwing knives are like air guns I am sure. Some are tried and tested and some are just pigs with lipstick that look cool but could not hit the side of a barn,… from inside the barn. I assume that your recommendation is the ones that you are currently having the best luck with? I (had) the SOG’s with the finger grooves and no handle wrap and they did ok but I never gave them a true try. I do agree,… both can exist. A better air gun will make even a poor shooter shoot better. Same for knives.
Since you are quite the theorist in many ways,…. I wonder if just like that a spinning motorcycle wheel will force the bike to remain upright,…. has any carry over to throwing knives? Flat and wide VS more thin and spike like?
I will check them out,….. notes made,…… Christmas to me! 🙂 Chris
Matt61
When I was a young’n I was a one gun shooter for the most part. Me and my buddies growing up would take turns shooting each other’s guns. And I would shoot my dad’s guns every once in a while. But shot my pellet gun first then my dad got me a .22 rimfire rifle and shot that a whole lot. So yes I believe the more you shoot a gun the more you learn it.
And the Maximus I got is a special one I’m going to have to say. It’s just way to easy to shoot good. I don’t know if it’s the changes I made to it or it has a good barrel or what. All I know is its a shooter.
Wow, B.B.! I also am glad you included the pointed pellets…not what I would have expected…but interesting! =)
I often recommend RWS pointed pellets, but be very aware that not all pointed pellet designs are made equal, if you look at the profile you will see that it has a very long skirt to head ratio, creating relatively high drag and unusual stability for a pointed design, compare it to a H&N pointed pellet (or whatever Beeman rebrand you have) and you’ll see that it is a much more symmetrical design.
In short this has two effects, firstly, as you’ve noticed the RWS holds unusually good groups out to 30m on a still day, but (and I have the broken chrono to prove this) it loses a load more energy, in my tests a full 30% over the similarly weighted but far less stable H&N, making neither particularly suitable for hunting at range (the H&N falls apart quite suddenly at 20m) but for completely different reasons.
The RWS, as we’ve mentioned before, with their long soft skirt, have an added advantage of being as close to a “one size fits all” pellet as I’ve found.
As an aside, I’ve found no penetration advantage with pointed pellets, the Crosman pellets, being generally harder seem to almost always edge that, but not all barrels like them, and when a barrel doesn’t like them, it really doesn’t.
I made several posts back in June 2016. Then because of the hot humid weather and some other extenuating circumstances, I was not able to continue my posts on the subject of my RWS 34P’s accuracy. So, I thought I would re-post to a more current blog date to get more input from you all. Hope this is acceptable?
6/19/16
Hello Mr. Gaylord. Being that you are the “Godfather” of air gunning, I would appreciate your input. I have read and studied your “artillery hold” and have tried various hand positions on the forearm but am not able to shoot consistent groups at 25 yards. I have a .22 calibre RWS 34P with a Hawke 3-9X50AO scope. I have owned this rifle for three years now. The stock screws are tight, the barrel was cleaned before use, and the scope mounts are tight with lock-tite. I have tried several 25 piece samples of the following pellets: JSB Match Exact 14.3g, 15.89g, & 18.13g, and RWS Super-H-Point and RWS SuperDomes, H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66g in .552mm, .553, & .554. I have also tried Crosman Premier Domes 14.3g. My goal is to shoot consistent groups of less than 1″ at 25 yards in order to dispatch house sparrows on my bluebird nesting boxes and feeders. The best of five 5-shots groups came from the JSB Match Exact 15.89g pellet. The first time I tried them the group measured .52″ to 1.1″ but on another day and sample the group measured .45″ up to 2.1″. I have done all of my testing shooting from a bench with Caldwell shooting bags. I tried placing my hand under the forearm and those groups were not as good as letting the forearm rest on the bag. I am holding the gun as loosely as I am able and still hold the cross hairs on the 1/2″ target. I can not adjust my scopes POI because my groups are too open. I know the RWS 34 is a great rifle and I have read many reviews of people getting 1/2″ groups at 25+ yards…I just can’t do it consistently and am a loss as to what else to try. I do have some more sample pellets: Crosman Premier HP 14.3g and JSB Match Exact RS 13.43g., and some more H&N FTT in .555mm, and some more RWS SuperDomes. I am about ready to trade this RWS 34P in on a PCP because I just can’t master the thing. I’ve shot firearms my whole life well but this thing has me stumped. Thank you for your consideration and help.
11/23/16
B.B.
It has been some time since this post. It has been a hot summer and a busy autumn here in MI and here it is the day before Thanksgiving and I am just now responding to your request. I did as you suggested and adjusted my scope 60 clicks down. I printed out some new targets with two 1/2″ dots one 3.5″ below the other all on 1″ grids. I tried all of the sample pellets referred in the above post. Here are my results shooting 10 shot groups as you suggested. All shots were taken at 25 yards with very little wind.
1st = H&N Field Target Trophy 5.55mm 14.66g groups are: 1.28″, 1.5″, & 1.13″
2nd = JSB RS 13.43g groups are: 1.7″, 2.5″, 0.9″, & 2.2″
3rd = RWS Superdome 14.5g group 1.25″ (only 9 pellets left)
4th = Crosman Premier HP 14.3g groups are: 0.7″ (5 shot), 0.5″ (10 shots w/2 flyers), 1.3″ (10 shots)
Based on the above results it would appear that the scope is NOT the issue. It also tells me that of ALL the pellets I have tried so far, the cheap CPHP pellets seem to group the best. I also had some fair groups previously using JSB Match Exact Jumbo 15.89g. One day I shot 5 (5 shot) groups of 0.52″-1.01″ and then a week later I shot 5 (5 shot) groups that ranged 0.45″ up to 2.10″.
Another thing, I tried the hold you suggested by resting the rifle on my off hand just ahead of the trigger guard. Using this hold the rifle is so muzzle heavy I am not able to stay on target. It feels very uncomfortable to hold the rifle in this manner.
Still not very happy with the groups I am able to shoot at 25 yards. I purchased the RWS 34P for the purpose of keeping the sparrows away from my blue bird boxes on my back fence line. I have four nesting boxes at 25-30 yards. I have made some kills at that distance but have had many more misses too.
11/24/16
Good morning Mr. Gaylord. Yes, I was much happier with the CPHP groups, even though I had two flyers from the 25 shots. I bought a 500 tin of the CPHP to continue trying to improve my groups. Those pellets surprised me that they shot as well, or better than, all the other higher priced pellets. I AM a perfectionist and maybe my expectations are too high for this rifle.
No, I have never tried shooting the rifle without the scope. I have some vision impairment, who doesn’t at 70, and I took great care when I mounted the scope to get the reticles perfectly aligned to the rifle. I locktited all the mounting screws with blue loctite. I have checked all my stock screws and scope screws and none have ever loosened on me. I doubt I would be able to even see the 1/2″ bull at 25 yards without the scope. I always have it zoomed to 9X too.
I will continue practicing my hold and adjust my off hand to the position you suggest. I know also that I must be very consistent with the hold, doing it the same each time. When I get poor groups then I change my hold. And so it goes…
11/29/16
B.B.
Got a warm (58º) day so thought I should get out and shoot some groups with the CPHP 14.3g pellets. I purchased a tin of 500 following my decent groups with the sample. Well, sad to say but today my groups with those pellets were very poor. I shot (5) 10 shot groups. There was at least (1) flyer in each group. I was very conscience of my hold, my breathing, and my trigger finger position. I tried to hold the rifle exactly the same each shot and did NOT rest the rifle on the bag. Here are my results today:
Group 1: 1.03″ with one flyer 3″ from the center of the group – no, I did not pull this shot
Group 2: 1.10″ with one flyer 2.6″ from the center of the group
Group 3: 1.48″ with one flyer 1.5″ from center of group
Group 4: 2.10″ with one flyer 3″ from the group
Group 5: 1.15″ with three flyers 2.0 to 2.5″ from the group
This last group was wild. I hit the 1/2″ bullseye with 5 pellets, and 5 scattered 2.5″ left, 2.5″ down,and 2″ right & 1″ down – looked like a shotgun pattern!
So, I have tried all these sample pellets, tried all of your suggestions using the artillery hold, and still here I am after threes years trying to shoot consistent groups with this break barrel RWS 34P.
I have had difficulty separating the right pellet with the right hold. Just when I think I’m making some progress, I’m right back where I started. You are correct… I AM FRUSTRATED! This is probably my last chance to shoot outside here in Michigan this year. The temps are dropping and snow is a coming.
Thanks for trying to help me with this rifle. I am at a loss.
B.B. has already responded to these posts and he told me he is writing a blog next week to address “Why My Gun Won’t Shoot”. I look forward to reading this blog. I welcome any and all input from my fellow airgunners.
Geo
Geo
Geo,
I am at a bit of a loss as to anything to suggest. No one can say that you have not given it a very earnest try. B.B. did a part 1 of “what is accuracy?” for me after I was having the same issues. I have done the weigh and head sort as well but could not get conclusive results as some not sorted groups were better than the sorted ones. At least it did eliminate those 2 variables.
I will be looking forward to the article as well. I wish you the best and hope that something finally works for you.
Chris