by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Rifling methods
- Barrel steel
- The rifling method
- Availability of steel
- Changes to technology
- Inexpensive barrels
- Business practices — cheap
- Business practices — quality
- Stress relieving
- Summary
Today’s report is in answer to a reader question. Riki from India asked the following.
“BB,what makes a good barrel? I mean in all smallbore air rifles the twist rate is the same, then why is the lothar walther barrel so much more coveted than a chinese barrel ? What does lothar walther do different from the others that their barrels are so accurate?”
I told him the answer would take an entire report, and did he really want to know that much? He said yes and several other readers chimed in, as well. So here goes.
You need to know up front that B.B. Pelletier is no barrel expert. I am writing this partly from what I have read about barrels over the past 50 years and partly from researching them for this report.
Rifling methods
Let’s get this out of the way first. Rifling methods do make a difference to the accuracy potential of a barrel, but I have already written a lot about this subject in reports titled How are barrels rifled?, The invention of rifling and The importance of rifling. I recommend that you read those reports, and I will proceed as though you understand what is in them.
Barrel steel
This is a big one! The type of steel used for barrels has to match: 1. the rifling method; 2. the speed at which the rifling is done and 3. The desired result. I will explain.
The rifling method
Some steel irons out smoothly and is well-suited to broach or button rifling. Other steel tears when it is broached and leaves a surface that’s full of microscopic divots and bumps. You would think it’s a no-brainer, then, to select the best steel for the job, but there are a few catches. First, if the proper steel costs significantly more than another steel that is acceptable but also has a few known problems, some manufacturers will choose the cheaper product and think it’s good enough. And if the cheaper steel will also support higher speeds in the rifling process, it becomes even cheaper because of reducing the overall manufacturing time and it’s even more attractive to those watching the bottom line.
The speed of manufacture
Chinese barrel makers run their rifling as fast as the tooling will allow, to lower the per-item cost. Premium barrel makers take longer and also they reject barrels that don’t meet a minimum quality standard.
Availability of steel
In a closed economy (one that is managed by a central authority beyond the manufacturer’s control) the best steel may not be available. The central authority decides what quantity and quality of resources go to which manufacturer. In that case, the central authority, and not the manufacturer, is the one who says it’s good enough. I am referring to how things work in a communist state.
Changes to technology
As time passes, technology changes how things are done. In the 1960s no precision shooter wanted a stainless steel barrel because they could not keep up with carbon steel barrels in the accuracy department. They were fine for hunters and plinkers, but not for those who chased precision. But, over the next two decades, the alloys of stainless were changed and the methods of rifling changed with them. Today a stainless barrel can be the most accurate barrel of all.
Many barrel makers drill the barrel on the horizontal axis, but I have been told that Feinwerkbau drills on the vertical axis, thus lowering drill bit runout (a wider hole drilled because the bit bends as the barrel turns) from gravity. We would be hard-pressed to see any deflection of a long deep-drilling bit, but apparently FWB feels there is an advantage to their method that’s worth the expense.
Inexpensive barrels
Not all barrels are drilled, however. Many airgun barrels are made from seamless tubing — especially for pneumatics and CO2 guns. Since the tubing is formed by a drawing process anyway, the steel chosen is suited for button and broach rifling techniques. So it works. Before you go all ballistic about this choice, know that it does work very well.
However — and this is a big however — there are things that can be done to improve on barrels made this way. Seamless tubing does respond well to drawing a button or broach through the tube, and it is possible to use the barrel that way without a lot of additional work. But if a better barrel (more accurate) is desired, the tubing can be honed before rifling. Even though the inside of the tubing looks smooth to the eye, there are minor imperfections that honing will address. It’s an extra step that costs extra time and money, but one manufacturer recently discovered that it pays off in greater accuracy. And greater accuracy pays off in increased sales.
Business practices — the desired result — cheap
If a company wants the absolute cheapest barrels they can produce, they use rifling broaches that start out on the large size, so they can be sharpened more times and last longer. Get a gun that has a barrel rifled with a broach like that when it is new and the barrel will be slightly oversized. I have seen this a lot in Chinese spring guns like the B3 underlevers and TS 45 sidelevers. That, Riki, is where cheap and inaccurate barrels come from — along with everything else I’ve said. I don’t see it at all in the rifles made in China for the famous brands like Benjamin, Umarex and Ruger. Just when the Chinese are left to their own devices, will they pull a stunt like this.
Cheap barrel makers who use seamless tubing will not hone the bore before rifling. They also won’t choke the bore, though that step doesn’t have to cost much if it is designed into the rifling process.
Business practices — the desired result — quality
A barrel maker who concentrates on quality will always hone the bore before rifling. If they drill the barrel they have to both ream and hone it, but the better makers will even hone seamless tubing before rifling. They will also choke the bore and chamfer the breech for easier loading of pellets with large heads. This is how a company like Lothar Walther makes a better barrel.
Then there is the hand-lapping that I discussed last week. A top barrel maker will hand-lap their barrels, either as part of the manufacturing process for all the barrels they make or as a special-order option. Lapping is different from honing, though both are aimed at smoothing the surface of the barrel metal. But lapping occurs after the rifling is completed and smooths the cuts that were made to create the lands. Lapping uses much finer abrasive than honing, and it is usually done by hand while watching the bore carefully with a borescope. At least that is how a barrel maker does it.
Stress relieving
Beyond lapping there is stress-relieving through a cryogenic process. When a firearm barrel heats up it will warp and twist from stresses in the metal. A cryogenic treatment done properly will relieve these stresses and realign the crystalline structure of the steel, giving the bore a smoother surface with less tendency to warp and twist. You probably figured out that airguns don’t heat up when they are fired, but as far as I know, nobody has experimented yet with the cryogenic process for smoothing the bore. I don’t know if it is worth it or not, but since an airgun barrel does not wear like a firearm barrel, you could have a barrel that is already in service with a known accuracy badseline cryogenically treated and see the results.
Summary
Riki, there you go. That’s why a cheap Chinese airgun isn’t as accurate as a premium airgunb. Of course there is a lot more to the story when the rest of the gun is considered, but the barrel is where most of the accuracy lives, so this report addresses the primary differences.
What’s surprising to me is not the fact that there are cheap barrels, but the fact that a barrel can be made economically and still be quite accurate.
I feel blessed to have your essays as a resource. Thank you!
Bejezus,
That’s very kind of you. Thank you,
B.B.
As far as I know, there’s almost very little left of the command economy, and what there is, there’s massive overcapacity, not shortages. That said, every manufacturer produces to a spec – some combination of price and quality. Go all the way to one side, and you get match rifles that cost as much as a car. Go to the other, and you get the no-name Walmart special.
There’s a lot of room in the middle ground though – regardless of the nationality of the brand or actual manufacturer.
Will your follow-up article discuss the ways in which air rifle barrels are different from firearm barrels?
Are there important fundamental differences between the barrel blank for an AirForce Texan and one destined for a .45 LC or .45/70 lever gun?
Chanman,
I do hope others speak up and chastise me if I put out bad information here.
One issue is caliber. If I am not mistaken, a .45 LC and other pistols are .451 or thereabouts. If I recall correctly, most of the .45 rifles are around .458. As to what caliber the .45 Lothar Walther barrel for the Texan is, I really do not know. I strongly suspect that BB can tell us as he played with one for a while.
Twist rates of the rifling is usually different, however as everyone starts to explore the big bores the twist rate becomes more like that of the firearms.
Another major issue in the differences of air rifle barrels and firearm barrels is the air rifle barrel does not have to contain the high pressures that a firearm develops, therefore the barrels tend to be thinner walled and not hardened as firearm barrels are.
I do hope I have not made too much of a mess of this and BB and others can straighten me out where I may have strayed.
RR,
THANK YOU!
Now I think I can write that blog!
B.B.
Chanman819,
And they call ME the enabler!
That’s a good idea you have, but I need to think about it. I might be able to write something.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for putting all of this together for us. I had all of these little bits and pieces floating around and could draw them all together if I needed to, but now I don’t have to as long as I remember this particular blurb.
I am curious as to which manufacturer you were referring to who recently discovered that adding a step to their barrel production increased sales. I can well imagine that was a hard one to sell to upper management.
RR,
Some day when we are at an airgun show, ask me.
B.B.
I’m betting it’s Crosman. Just a thought based on what’s been said in the past.
B.B.,
Very nice. I have had experience with honing and reaming,… but on much bigger I.D. bores (non-gun). I can not even imagine what sort of equipment that would take given the small I.D. and length of rifle bores. Thank you for taking the time to research and write on this important topic.
Chris
B.B.,
You also mentioned “cryogenic” which infers (to me) the use of cold. I am aware of heat processes that involve heat like annealing and heat treating and controlled cool down from the heating process or rapid cool down like quenching,…. but I was unaware of metal treating processes that involve cold. Perhaps cryogenic simply refers to temperature,… be it heat or cold?
Chris
Chris,
He means COLD. When it comes to steel it is all about “grain structure”. Extreme cold can change this.
-Y
Yogi,
Yes, COLD. 300 degrees below zero!
B.B.
-300 F is the temperature of liquid nitrogen…
Chris USA,
Somebody once explained to me that is involves cooling the metals to extremely cold temperatures and slowly bringing them back to room temperature. This allegedly aligns the metal on the crystalline level. I believe Cold Steel uses this method of treatment hence their brand name.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I did look up cryogenic on Wikipedia and does mean cold. It is the first time I have heard of cold being used. Perhaps the heat method is more for hardening and the cold method serves another purpose like “smoothing” or something. I will have to research this further. The only barrel that I could even try this with would be the M-rod and the only thing to freeze with would be dry ice. Very interesting. Chris
Chris,
Look up 300 Below. They are one company that does this process.
B.B.
B.B.,
I have Absolute Zero knowledge of such companies! ;^)
Michael
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Chris,
Guitar string manufacturers have used cryogenics in their manufacturing (and marketing hype) process of steel for a very long time. The marketing copy from Dean Markley states, “Cryogenic processing realigns the molecular structure, producing a more brilliant, longer lasting string.” The claims are prolonged harmonic richness, greater corrosion resistance and slower succumbing to metal fatigue. True? Dunno. The cost difference is not huge between these and other high quality strings, FWIW.
Audiophiles have long believed that cable is directional, with molecular structure dictating which side should go to the amp and which side to the turntable or speakers. I’ve never heard a difference in blind listening tests, however.
Michael
Mike,…. thanks for the insight. Chris
Chris, I had the (mis)fortune to take a metallurgy course in college, where we spent about 90% of the time on the iron-carbide diagram – related to steel. “Cryo” treatment (usually with extremely cold liquid gases) is like an extension of the quenching process, going further down the ramp of austenite to martensite conversion (for ya’ll who like big words, allotropic transformation). The change is from FCC (face centered cubic) crystalline grain structures to a stronger and more wear resistant BCC (body centered cubic) structure. It works better with certain steel alloys including the high carbon stainless ones. It is common in heat treatment processes for modern stainless alloys like those used for knives, where wear resistance and the reaction to sharpening methods is critical. I would imagine most airgun barrels are soft steel alloys and don’t see such treatment, but perhaps some barrels would benefit.
Jerry,…… Thank you for the added info. It would be interesting to know if it would aid an air gun barrel in any way. I will check into that 300 Below company that B.B. mentioned and see what else I can find out. Chris
Jerry,
Thanks for that. You saved me some time and money, because I was tempted to run a test on an AirForce barrel.
B.B.
B.B,.
If I can save either for you, wonderful. This has been a good report. Now, one further point, cyro treatment would typically be done AFTER full heat treatment and quenching, extending the allotropic transformation more fully towards martensite. And I expect that the heat treatment would have a substantial mechanical effect (i.e. bending, distorting) on the shape of a long tube with a bored hole. I know that when knife blanks are heat treated, they require straightening with mechanical hammering, for instance…
the above should say changing from FCC to FCT (face centered tetragonal), instead of FCC to BCC. This is the austenite to martensite transformation.
Chris,
I believe Krieger also cryogenically treats the barrels used in the Canadian Forces’ .338 LM sniper rifles as well.
Nathan
Nathan,
That’s good to know.
Thanks,
B.NB.
Chanman819,
Thanks for the added info.. From all of the info. discussed and Jerry C.’s (2nd) link,…. it sounds as if it would be a desirable thing to have for a firearm barrel. I wonder how much it adds to the cost,…. assuming that someone had the choice to purchase a rifle/barrel either way? Chris
Hey Chris,
Talking about metals, ever seen the grain structure on a broken tungsten carbide tool?
Breaks so smooth that it is almost like a mirror!
Hank
Hank,
I have seen plenty of broken tools and tooling but never noticed “mirror” like surfaces. Then again, I was not really looking for it. I do remember seeing a lot of “crystalline” structure though. Like many things,… metallurgy is a whole specialty unto itself. Chris
Chris, all metals are made of a lot of tiny crystals all stuck together.
If you can actually SEE crystals on the broken surface they are too d— big. Bad heat treat.
A decently heat treated hard piece of steel will break – if you chose to break it – with a silky gray surface.
Yeah, I’m a metallurgist. And cryo treating has not been part of my direct experience, I’m told it does great things for edge holding life of industrial knives, some use it for stress relieving. I do not know that metallurgy.
JCKelly,
Thank You for the added insight. I imagine that things that break are often a product of poor heat treating. Inferior and cheaper import products. My extent of any knowledge is,….. mmmm,… it broke,… replace broken part. 🙂 It is cool to get exposure to different fields and to have people such as yourself that has some schooled knowledge comment. Thanks. Chris
Hank, carbide tooling is made with a sintering process, these are essentially ceramic materials, with a very tight crystalline structure – beyond that of metals. They are way hard. This BLOG is taking me back to the 70’s. 🙂
Thanks for all the detailed information in your posts Jerry! Much appreciated!
From my home project annealing, hardening, tempering and case-hardening experience I have always thought of “heat treatment” in terms of elevated temperatures. Makes perfect sense that temperatures in the opposite direction are going to affect the metal’s structure as well.
You would probably laugh at me using my woodstove for annealing and for case-hardening.
Actually, two nesting pottery flower-pot bases (no drain hole) filled with hardwood charcoal powder does a pretty good job for case hardening sheet metal parts 🙂
Hank
No laughter (maybe a quick grin) and I think such home grown tinkering is very valuable. Now, I guess you need to have a cryo bath. Liquid nitrogen is a lot cooler than dry ice, but you can find that much more easily. Maybe something like this 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uUFI0w5Tj0
Here’s a more serious discussion of cryo treatment of tool steels
http://www.thefabricator.com/article/shopmanagement/cryogenic-processingadispelling-the-myths-mysteries
Jerry,
That is a thorough discussion!
Thanks,
B.B.
Jerry, Just checked that big tank we have sitting in the corner here at work… it is liquid nitrogen 🙂
Thanks for that link – fascinating article ( a keeper! ), it really helps with the understanding of steels.
Sure explained a number of things. I wanted to make a knife from a machine-hacksaw blade. I tried to anneal the blade but couldn’t manage it and had to use abrasive disks and grinding for all the shaping.
For another “quick grin”… as a kid I used to make my arrow heads by a process called “train-forging” – yeah, you put a nail on the track and let a train run over it 🙂 Dangerous, but with a quick touch-up on a bench grinder and you had a functional “broadhead” for small game hunting.
That is when I started case-hardening things following instructions in a (very) old book on “Farm Blacksmithing”. Fun stuff.
Hank
Is there a place to order a replacement barrel ? I know there are resources for firearm barrels.
Gopher,
If you own an AirForce gun replacements are available.
B.B.
Gopher,
There are people that will machine barrels to fit certain airguns, but it depends on the gun as they all pretty much take different machining to fit. So availability is often a function of the popularity of the gun.
The Marauder is very popular, thus has people making “upgraded” barrels to fit it. I personally tried two in my Marauder, both from a wonderful machinist name Jim Gaska – he goes by “Marmot Militia” on the web so you can search for his machine works site. I first tried an LW replacement barrel and then later one of Jim’s proprietary Hammer Forged barrels that he developed with TJ’s. Both are excellent shooters.
Alan
I see there are some available but not as many as for fire arms. Like it is said, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. It would need to be a premium air gun to be worthwhile to rebarrel.
Gaska (and likely others) buy barrel blanks from manufacturers like Lothar Walther, then machine them to adapt to the action of particular guns. So, I’d estimate we are speaking of several hundred dollars for a barrel. For target shooters, this is not such a high premium. LW is one of the primary suppliers of top quality barrel blanks used by numerous airgun (and firearm) manufacturers. Your analogy has some merit, but in general, the barrel is such a key item in any gun, and perhaps moreso in a gun like the Marauder, that has a good trigger and repeatable, well controlled power plant as designed. See:
http://www.lothar-walther.com/454.php
Sometimes you CAN make a silk purse out of a sows ear, and as Jerry said the barrel is a very significant part of the equation. Over the years, I rebarreled and regulated my .22 cal Marauder and it is an amazing shooter. It comes close to my Air Ranger in terms of absolute capabilities, but the Air Ranger just shoots well so much easier. But with the right effort, the M-Rod can hold it’s own.
Anyways, here is a photo of 5 consecutive 5 shot groups shot from the Marauder benchrested at 50 yards. This was with the LW Poly barrel in it, shooting it’s favorite pellet. I later tried the HF barrel to get the gun quieter (that 0.63″ LW filled the shroud and made it quite a bit louder). The HF is quieter and is more accurate with pellets straight from the tin, and shoots close to the LW in terms of absolute best results. Here is the photo of the LW groups. A definite silk purse, if I do say so:
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc389/hkydad/50%20yard%205%20shot%20groups%20%20-%20Baracuda%205.55%20no%20weight%20sort_zpstiqilplj.jpg
AlanMcD,
What software are you using to measure the target sizes?
Siraniko
B.B.
Is using JB Non-embedding, a little like “honing” the barrel?
Doesn’t the steel of break barrels need to be much stronger than the steel is under levers or side cockers? How can bent barrels be accurate? Good article!
-Y
Yogi,
It is a LITTLE like lapping, but nothing like honing. JB is much less aggressive than lapping compound.
Airgun barrel steel is dead soft — like rimfire barrel steel.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.!!
Love this kind of blog!
Hank
One of the mysteries of airguns is the critical nature of barrels, and their variance. I have seen inexpensive rifles of the same make that were very accurate, and some that were highly inaccurate. My Gamo Whisper (in my early days of airgunning) was tuned by Bob Werner, but it was a scattergun. A similar gun my friend owned was MUCH more accurate. Likewise, my most accurate field target gun is a Marauder, and after installing the fifth barrel it became a winner (thank you Paul Bracagila). My more expert friends describe how they can lap a barrel to improve it, or use various incantations that have good effect sometimes, but I believe that you inherently have some chance of receiving a sub-optimal barrel even from a good manufacturer – in terms of the accuracy we’d all like to see – FDR’s head groups at 30 yards or so. 😉
I have one of those low cost box store air guns. When I got a pellet pen and tried deep seating the pellet in it the pellet falls out the end of the barrel. I think that the rifeling is not puting any spin on the pellet.
Gopher,
Wow! I do not even know what to say to that. Are you sure that it has any rifling at all?
Gopher,
You have one of the overbore Chinese barrels I talked about. Yours is useless as it is, unless you can find some oversized pellets to shoot in it.
B.B.
You are right that the accuracy is not very good but it is usefull in that it nurtured my interest in this hobby. Now I am enjoying the much better aspects of a Marauder. Reading your blog has helped in making my choice. Thanks.
BB
Your report is a good three day seminar. I learned as much in this one as in any of your very best.
You sell yourself short. You are a barrel expert! Why do I say this? Riki’s request was only recently made. No way have you had time to do the research to write this. It was already in your noggin.
Decksniper
Decksniper,
Thanks, but I have to be honest. Some of what I wrote about was gathered through discussions with barrel makers and those who are contemplating making barrels. Dennis Quackenbush told me some of what I wrote. And some came from reading several articles over the years.
I have been researching cryogenics for a couple years, trying to see if it makes a difference for an airgun barrel. I do want to test it if it might.
I guess people just talk to me a lot and I remember this stuff because I like it.
B.B.
Thanks a lot BB, that helps clear things. Most barrels in India are cut from a broach, and they also drill the hole through a solid rod to begin with. The barrels of most local manufacturers are a bit under bit under diameter, and do not support imported pellets. Can you tell why is this such? In my latest gun, the breech is wider and local pellets fall down a 2 mm and is stopped there as the rifling begins. Are there any differences in accuracy between shallow rifling and deep rifling? My guns have shallow rifling.
BB, you finally made me understand why my hopeless gun doesn’t shoot better, and thank you very much for it.
Riki,
All I can tell you is the Indian manufacturers have decided to make their barrels for the locally made pellets. That’s pretty common, with Germany and the UK and even Crosman here in the U.S. doing the same.
Airgun rifling is nearly always shallow to keep the friction as low as possible. For accuracy you should work with the shallowest rifling you can, because it distorts the pellet the least.
B.B.
B.B.
Are the barrels heated to soften the steel before rifling, or is the rifling done at room temperature?
Charles,
Room temperature.
B.B.
BB and Friends
Thanks for the very informative blog on the different methods that make a barrel accurate. This subject has interested me since I returned to airguns 7 or 8 years ago. Fortunately, most of my airgun barrels are made by Weihrauch, however that accuracy is reflected in the price tag. I believe we have seen the worst from China, as their their newer rifles are consistently quite accurate. I think that reflects the growing popularity of our sport, as well as an educated public not willing to settle for yesterday’s mediocrity. Chinese airguns may just be the bargain of 2017. Speculation of course. Only time will tell.
I was amused at first when you mentioned the use of cryogenics as an aid to accurate barrels. I immediately thought of the cryogenic craze of the sixties, and early seventies when people with means were being cryogenically “frozen”, and put in cryogenic tanks to be “thawed” at a time when science overcomes aging, heart, and liver disease, cancer, etc. I believe Walt Disney had this process performed when he died. My question to having this done on a human would be why would you want to wake up in relatively good health, only to be so far behind in the intelligence factor, you could never catch up. This is merely speculation on my part, but I equate it to a person who’s been incarcerated for thirty years, is finally granted parole, only wanting to be back in the familiar surroundings of the prison world he’s become accustomed to. The world he knew when first incarcerated is gone. Friends, and relatives are deceased. He has no bearings, nothing in common with the so called outside world of today. And that’s just thirty years. The cryogenic person would be looking at centuries of catch up. You would be considered the living Bronze Age man from yesteryear.
But I digress. The two processes have little in common, and as I say it’s all speculation. However, I do love these informative blogs.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
Your take on cryogenics is pretty much the same as my take,….. well,.. at least until today’s informative blog and subsequent discussions. As for getting “up to speed” on past history,…. by that time they will just hook a cord up to your brain and in a few minutes you will be all “caught up”. I would skip that process and go it on my own,.. in lieu of new knee’s, new back, less belly and minus 40 years! 🙂
B.B.,
I won’t pretend I know much about barrels, as I don’t. That said, on the firearm side, there seems to be so many. For example, Glock has Polygonal rifling which if I understand right, means the sharp lands and grooves are “rounded”? Then there is the button rifling you’ve spoke of, hammer forged rifling and my fav. of all, Marlin’s micro groove rifling which would seem closer to what air gun rifling would be like. Marlin claims to have more “grooves” that are more swallow? Is airgun rifling so different like firearms are? Speaking of accuracy and rifling, one of my best shooting rifles was a Winchester Mod. 61 that had a “groove” cut into the barrel. That is what the gun smith said. If you looked down the barrel, you’d see where the rifling stopped, then started again. He said it was a bad thing and the gun should shoot very badly. But he too was shocked when he shot if and it was so dead on! Go figure.
Thanks again for this report.
Doc.
Doc,
Yes, airgun rifling is very much like Marlin’s Microgroove rifling. And Marlin switched to that from “Ballard” or conventional rifling in the late 1940s. Microgroove rifling is good for some bullets, but not for all. Ballard rifling is more forgiving, I believe.
B.B.
Tom,
Great blog, very informative
BB,
What a topic :). I guess there might be another blog or two in the future?
One thing that you didn’t mention is consistency of the twist rate, which usually varies some over the length of the barrel. Ideally, it should be perfect, but the best practical approach is said by some (maybe you?) to be to crown at a point where the rate of twist is increasing (getting faster). I guess this works similar to a choke, increasing back pressure as forward movement is converted to spin. An intentional gain twist would be very interesting in an air rifle, similar to the barrels that are smooth until last few inches, especially if the depth of rifling was also varied from near zero at breech to final depth at muzzle.
Regarding stress relief, one interesting thing I read is that barrels at Harpers Ferry were stockpiled outdoors for a year, so that they got the benefit of many hot/cold cycles.
All I really know is pellet pickiness drives me crazy sometimes!
BG
That’s what we called a seasoned block on our dragracing engines. Would much rather have a block or heads that were used versus new.
BB
Last night I read this before anyone commented and thought to myself, this will probably be a short lived topic for conversation, especially because it was basically a reply to someone’s concerns.
I am now totally convinced you have attracted some of the most talented knowledgeable people around, including yourself, on a wide range of topics. What a eye opening powerhouse of airgun information you have and are creating here.
‘Airgun Academy’ is the perfect name for this blog. Looking forward to more education from you and the outstanding members of this blog.
Thank you all for sharing !
Bob M
Bob,
I was surprised by the number of comments this one got. Apparently this is what people want to hear.
B.B.
Now I got to think why even more.
Wonder why a Crosman barrel in a certain Crosman gun that came with a Lothar Walther barrel of the same caliber and length preformed better than the Lothar Walther barrel.
And should I go on. Multiple pellets tryed in both barrels. Lothar Walther barrels. Guess they cost more than a Crosman barrel. Probably have different steps and material their made from. Should I of shot longer possibly to hone or season the barrels to give them both more of a chance to show what their made of.
Some of the people here know I been a machinist for the most part of my life. Production and one off pieces. There are so many variables that exist in machining it can make your head spin. Pretty much the same as our air guns that we try ever so hard to get to group.
Eliminating variables is part of what makes a good product. And even when the variables are eliminated or processes made repeatable as possible. There will be product that is better than another made from the same process.
But who can say what the best product will be produced in that perimeter to give the best result from that product. How does that get determined and allow us to get the best product in our hands. The customer’s hands.
Testing? What kind of testing? How the product is used I would have to say.
I have found cheap products perform just as well as expensive products. And even better in some cases. But also the expensive stuff shines too.The best I can say is it is good to have a process that can be repeated. But also it needs to be noted there are exceptions of products that are produced in those boundaries.
In production there are variables. They can give good results and they can give bad. Yes I was a brown box Crosman premier fan. Bought the lots and all that stuff. But what’s funny is I sorted those pellets in more ways than can be imagined. Well I have stated in the past how I have sorted. Why? For the best of that product I could find. Did it help? Probably. But I do know of a Czechoslovakian company that makes pellets that give darn near sorted results right out of the tin. And in most air guns I tryed them in.
Now ask why those pellets perform. And I guess the only point I’m trying to make out of all this is. There are variables. And variables affect performance. So it boils down to when you buy a product how much dough are you willing to put out for a product or does the cheap stuff still able to hold their own. But wait. How do you really know. Only one true way to find out.
Referring now totally to airguns. Shoot and see.
GF
That was quite a mouth full . Could say it different, and say a lot . But too pie eyed at the moment and lacking motivation .
Attempt at over simplification……
If it comes out good, then good . If it does not for some reason, then it does not come out good .
tt
TT
Or something like that. 😉
But yep. Who knows what you will end up with in your hand. And here I go. Going to toot Crosman’s horn again. Got the world’s best Maximus for some reason. I can’t keep saying enough how good this gun shoots.
I want to hope other Benjamin Maximus are like the one I got but I highly doubt it.
I got one that just happened to come about when all the right air gun stars were shining and came together in one right place. It really is a special one.
And I got it. How could that be? Lucky me. 🙂
BB, is there any way by which I can distinguish between a good and bad barrel just by looking down the barrel? Sellers here don’t allow us to test for groups before purchase. And is there anything that I can do to make a bad barrel perform better?
Riki,
Sellers everywhere are like that. No, there is no way to know if a barrel is good by just looking. You have to shoot it.
B.B.
Riki,
Maybe you can work your way in to a tester job at one of the factories? There is some new guns that come with actual targets that were shot at the factory. Some older ones did it as well. Then there is something like the 10 for 10 test that P.A. offers where they shoot 10 shots and send you the target. I think they have a 20 for 20 as well. Not only does this show what the gun will do on paper,…. it also verifies the gun is working properly.
If you land a deal like that,… you could have your pick of the most accurate ones. Just an idea for you.
Thanks BB.
Chris, guns here are not sold with targets. Leading airgun manufacturers and rifles from the govt. ordinance factory are test shot only once before public when a new gun is introduced in the market. There are only 3 factories in total and getting a job there is not possible. For a job, I am preparing to crack the medical entrance test and be a doctor.
Riki,
Best of luck with the medical entrance test. Maybe someday you can end up over here and have no air gun restrictions,… depending on what state you live in. Some states are wide open,.. while other states have (some) laws restricting usage and possession.