by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan Bullmaster semiautomatic bullpup PCP.
This report covers:
- The test
- Scope performance
- H&N Baracuda with 5.50mm head
- Scope adjustment
- Group two
- Group three
- Evaluation
- Group four
- Group five
- Summary
Today I take the Hatsan Bullmaster out to the 50-yard range. I might have said in the past that I would attach a bipod for this test, but instead I rested the rifle on a sandbag.
I shot the BullMaster off a sandbag rest.
The test
It is important to remember that the BullMaster is a semiautomatic. However, it is also a repeating pellet rifle. It doesn’t handle the pellets the way cartridges are handled in semiautomatic firearms, so that’s one accuracy-killer that can be discounted. It feeds from a circular magazine. The bolt that pushes the pellet into the breech is operated by air instead of manually by a bolt. Therefore we can expect airgun repeater-level accuracy.
I filled the rifle at the start of the test and shot 30 shots before refilling. The first group was fired with the UTG 3-12X32 AO Bug Buster scope set exactly as it was for the 25-yard test. Remember that I am also evaluating this scope, along with the BullMaster.
Scope performance
I will address the scope first. Some of you expressed concern that a 3-12 power scope needs a larger objective lens than the 32 mm it presently has. You predicted the image would be dark. I shot immediately after dawn under an overcast sky, so the available light was quite low. I have to say the image was a little dim. I could see the crosshairs against the black bullseyes, but I have had 12-power scopes with brighter images.
Here is my assessment. For shooting deer with a centerfire rifle out to 125 yards or woodchucks with an air rifle out to 50 yards, this scope is fine for all legal hunting times. But for shooting groups at 100 yards, this is not the scope to get, unless the need for the small size and light weight outweigh your ability to see fine details.
H&N Baracuda with 5.50mm head
Hatsan sent me a tin of H&N Baracuda pellets with 5.50mm heads with this rifle. At 25 yards they turned out to be the most accurate pellets of the ones they sent. So, I started the 50-yard test with them.
The first group landed low and to the left of the bull. Ten pellets went into 1.222-inches, from center to center.
The first group of H&N Baracudas went into 1.222-inches at 50 yards.
Scope adjustment
I adjusted the scope after this group. Judging that the group was one inch low and one inch to the left, I needed to move it in the opposite direction by that much. The scope adjustment knobs move the strike of the round 1/3 minute of angle. That’s roughly three clicks to move the round one inch at 100 yards. So, at 50 yards it’s twice as many clicks. However, as I started adjusting I was distracted because I couldn’t hear the clicks. With my electronic earmuffs turned on I can hear sounds much better than with the unaided ear, but these clicks are silent. They can be felt, though, so I concentrated on the feel, which is very slight. It takes a safecracker’s touch.
While doing that I forgot I was shooting at 50 yards and adjusted the reticle three clicks up and three clicks to the right. It should have been six clicks for both, of course.
Group two
The second group landed higher and more to the right, so the adjustments worked. I obviously didn’t adjust the elevation far enough, but the windage was now good.
This time 10 Baracuda pellets went into a horizontal group measuring 1.68-inches between centers at 50 yards. There were no called pulls in any group shot on this day, and the sandbag rest was as solid as I could hope for.
The second group of Baracudas went into 1.68-inches at 50 yards.
I adjusted the scope up two more clicks after this group, and I left the windage alone.
Group three
Group three is obviously higher, but it also moved more to the right. My scope may not be mounted level with the gun or the movement could be inside the scope itself — it’s impossible to tell from what I have done so far. This time 10 Baracuda pellets went into 1.583-inches at 50 yards.
Ten Baracuda pellets landed in this 1.583-inch group at 50 yards. This group did move up, but it also seems to have moved to the right a little more.
Evaluation
The first group was the best with the Baracuda pellet. I shot all three groups on a single fill, so you have now seen the performance across much of its useful fill. There are more shots on this fill, but I wanted to change pellets, so I refilled the rifle at this time. Since I didn’t know where the next pellet might land, I left the scope where it was.
Group four
I shot this group with JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets that weigh 18.13 grains. I hadn’t used these until the last test at 25 yards, because Hatsan didn’t send them with the rifle. They performed very well at 25 yards — giving the smallest group. The Baracudas grouped larger at 25 yards, but only because of a one-shot flier. Nine of them were in a very small group. So, this 50-yard test is a way of sorting out exactly what’s what.
Ten JSB Exact Jumbo Heavys went into a nice round group that measures 1.049-inches between centers. I think this may be the pellet for the BullMaster.
The Hatsan BullMaster put 10 JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets in 1.049-inches at 50 yards.
Group five
I was excited, so I reloaded and tried another 10 JSBs. This time 9 of them went into 0.861-inches at 50 yards. Unfortunately, one pellet opened the group to 1.377-inches and it wasn’t a pull. Still, I think these JSB pellets are right for this rifle.
The final group of JSB pellets are in 1.377-inches at 50 yards, with 9 in 0.861-inches.
Summary
In this 5-part series we have taken a long and detailed look at the Hatsan BullMaser. We learned that it is a true semiautomatic, but the bullpup trigger does have a long second stage pull. The rifle is heavy, but it gets lots of shots on a fill and is quite accurate.
We also learned that the new UTG Bug Buster 3-12 scope is worth consideration. It looks like it was made for a gun like the BullMaster.
My thanks to Hatsan USA for affording us this chance to see this rifle, to Leapers for providing the scope and to BKL for providing the cantalever scope base that cleared the BullMaster’s high magazine.
Hi BB
As always off topic with a question about a new revolver. It is re: the Umarex Polymer Version of the Python. Specifically the dual ammo rifled versions useing the 10 shot rotary clips – plastic for steel BB’s and metal for lead pellets. Both available from Pyramyd AIR.
I read either on this blog or possibly elsewhere that steel BB’s, as they travel up a rifled barrel, tend to develope a spiral path as they follow the rifling and when they exit the muzzle centrifical force at the moment they exit causes the BB to fly off at a slight tangent to the spiral which greatly affects the POI.
We’re not talking about BB’s coming out of the barrel flying sideways – I’m assuming these guns use Polygonal rifleing and the centrifical force is not that great – but just a general inaccuracy and larger groupings. I have yet to get any make of BB to group better than 10 shot groups of 3.5 inches at 7 yards. Barely plinking accuracy.
I have both the 2.5 inch and the 6 inch version of these dual ammo Pythons and both are very poor BB shooters.
Also, I was stumped for a while when shooting pellets gave no better and even slightly worse results than the BB’s. That problem was a simple fix that I will remark on in a later blog entry.
Am I correct in my assumption about the accuracy and is the “Dual Ammo” feature of these pistols just another sales pitch??
Cheers
Dave
Dave,
This is almost worth a blog. I don’t think I ever said that BBs tend to spiral. That would not be something I would say because I don’t believe they do.
The problem with accuracy is the barrel. It has to be tight for the BBs, yet it needs to be large enough for the pellets. I have tested some revolvers that shot both BBs and pellet well. I think the Colt SAAs do.
There is some “sales pitch” happening in a dual fuel approach, but not as much as yo0u think.
You are shooting at 21 feet. Back up to 16 feet and you will get my results. Also try many different kinds of BBs. You have seen me do this and how astounding it can be.
B.B.
Hi BB
Apologies for taking so long to reply to your comment.
I guess it wasn’t here that I saw the info about the spiraling pellets. I’ll keep looking for it and if I ever find it again I’ll pass the article on to you.
Regarding the distance I’m shooting at I moved up to16ft. and tried 4 different BB’s. And yes, the groups did get smaller, but only by about 50%. Compared to Halfsteps smooth bore Python I think I can honestly say the rifled barrel Pythons are not made for steel BB’s. Hornady Black Diamonds and RWS BB’s had the best groups at around 2⅝” at 5yds. Not good when compared to some of my other guns like the Webley Mk VI – 10 shot ⅝” groups at 7yds. or the Dan Wesson 8″ that will do ¾” groups!
When I switched over to properly seated pellets both the Daisy Black Box Wadcutters and Gamo Match Wadcutters grouped inside of the 1¼” bullseye on my targets for 10 shot groups – a big difference that indicates to me that pellets are the best way to go with these guns.
Cheers
Dave
Dave
If you search for “pellet spiral” you should come up with a july 17 2009 blog here .
It is about PELLETS, not BBs
tt
Dave,
Spiraling PELLETS? I thought you were talking about BBs. Yes, I have written about spiraling pellets.
B.B.
Hi BB
That was Twotalons comment. It is about pellets and not BB’s – I was talking about the BB’s and the fact they follow a spiral path caused by the rifleing and only within the confines of the barrel – not while in the ensuing trajectory. When the shot takes place the BB, being considerably smaller than a pellet, would eventually be forced sideways in the larger bore by the swirling gasses behind it and contact and follow the spiral of the rifling being held against the rifling by centrifical force. Exiting the muzzle the centrifical force would make the BB fly off at a tangent to the spiral of the rifleing. The centrifical force at this point would cease to exist and the BB would now follow a straight trajectory. Because the above happens so quickly and the forces involved are not great the new trajectory of the BB will differ only slightly from the axis of the bore.
I think where on the circumference of the muzzle the BB exits is a random thing and affected by all the factors normally associated with accellerating a projectile but still be enough to cause larger groups.
Cheers
Dave
Redrafter,
I have a couple of the 6″ BB only versions of these Pythons and they get about 120 shots per cylinder and will put about 95%( 114 bbs) in a 3″ circle at 12 yards. Mine shoot Daisy Zinc and Hornady Black Diamonds the best , with just a slight edge going to the Black Diamonds. They are so cheap to shoot, you could almost use it as an excuse to buy one as a dedicated BB gun. 😉
Hey Halfstep
The BB Version of the Python seems to handle BB’s way better than the rifled version. Compared to your groups mine are more than double in size at about 7″ at 10 M or 11 yards. Both rifled Pythons are shooting about the same size groups which leads me to think the rifled barrel is not in any way optimized for BB’s. Pellets, once I figured out they needed to be seated, work much better, even in the smooth bore Brodax. I would be curious to see how pellets shoot from your BB only Python.
Cheers
Dave
Dave,
I only have bb cylinders and they are too small to accept pellets. I am guessing that the pellets wouldn’t fit down the barrel since it is probably a smaller ID as well. I’ll look into it some when I have a chance and will let you know what I find. I put the snubby dual ammo version on my Xmas list to my daughter. If I end up with it under the tree, the deep seating tip will come in handy, so thanks for sharing.
Halfstep
The barrel on your Python is the same as the Brodax which handles pellets fine. All you need to shoot pellets are the metal rotary clips designed for shooting pellets in these guns.
If you’re going to be ordering the snubby you will have the 2 metal rotary pellet clips that come with the snubby. At the same time order an extra pack of 3 of the pellet clips. You’ll need them and FYI the shot count with pellets in these guns really drops. 80 to 90 shots at 5 second intervals at 65°F is what I generally get. Keep an ey on the shot count. The guns are really efficient and shoot hard up to about the last 5 shots. When the power starts to fall off and the POI starts to drop STOP SHOOTING! It can get messy if you get a stuck pellet.
Cheers
Dave
Redrafter,
I misspoke. Out of 100 shots 80% went into 3″ circle and 94% went into 4″ circle. Should have check my notes before I posted. That is still good accuracy though.
Halfstep
That is good for shooting bb’s out of it.
GF1,
Eventually I am gonna try the plastic Blaster BBs out of them. I’m guessing that they will be more accurate because they fit the barrel tighter.
Halfstep
I keep forgetting about those. I do have them bookmarked. I need to order some.
And how did you end up doing with the stormrider. Better shooting results after you removed the baffle material?
GF1,
Did a lot of shooting this past weekend because the wind was super calm and it was warm outside. Didn’t have any joy at 50 yds since everything I tried shot 1 1/2″ or bigger. At 40 yds I had one pellet that gave sub 1″ over and over and that was a new pellet for me, the JSB Ultra Shock Heavy Diabolo. At 35yds I found a bunch that shot 1″ groups so I’m calling it a 35 yd gun.I was using the Mantis 3-9X32mmAO scope that was included with the gun.Speaking of which, Airgun Depot included high rings that they said would clear the rear sight without the need to remove it. It did not!
That JSB pellet is over 25 gr and at the fastest shot I recorded (751 fps) it gave almost 32 fpe at the muzzle.I think my gun is shooting hotter that the gun BB tested. 14.3 gr Premiers give me a max velocity of 932 fps which I think is quite a bit more than he got. I did some experimenting indoors at 12 yds and found that many of the pellets that I shot (14-15.5 gr) did better at around 850 fps to 750 fps. If I wanted to detune my gun down to that range what approach would you suggest? Lighter hammer spring, smaller transfer port, lighten up the hammer, or somehow limit how far the hammer can travel, or something else all together?
Another issue I have had with this gun is it was almost impossible to get some pellets to load. It was so hard that I actually broke the bolt handle off and had to turn it and run a die on it to rethread it. Now the handle is short but it still works. After that I decided to find out why it was so hard to load ( my first one was hard to load also and I recall that BB had problems loading some pellets in his review gun) so I took it apart. The lead-in at the breech was not flared out enough and formed a step where it pressed into the breech block. I put the barrel in my mini lathe and held a bullet nosed mounted grinding stone against it with the tailstock ’til it was flared enough. Now it loads nice. That hard loading is a REAL problem when you are using the magazine because when you push forward it goes part way then stops and the automatic thing for me to do was pull the bolt back and give ‘er another hard push forward. I would do it without even thinking and of course that let the mag rotate and I would end up with one pellet in the breech and one pellet halfway in the breech and half in the mag. And it was a royal pain trying to push a rod down the barrel to get that second pellet back into the mag so I could take the mag out. It was shoved up the butt of the one in front of it so they acted like one Looonnnggg pellet. I was afraid to even use the mag after going through that a few times. Now it’s all good.
Halfstep
I’m not familiar with that gun. But I would start by putting a lighter striker spring in it. Or get another spring from Diana and cut it to a shorter legnth. Then of course you will have to go more than likely to a lower fill pressure. Hard to say without having it in front of me to see what’s inside it.
And it sounds like you did a good thing chamfering the barrel were the pellet loads. I call that the lead in chamfer. And yep very easy to damage the pellet if it’s not loading smoothly.
And I will have to search those pellets. Kind of on the heavy side for the way I have my Maximus tuned right now. But I think that would be a nice combination of speed and weight at the distance your saying it’s shooting a1″ at.
I will see if I can search up a parts digram for it. That would be a help to see what is in side to tune on.
GF1,
Don’t some manufacturers just use a smaller transfer port to make their guns comply with Euro rules and Canadian rules? I thought that might be a simple place to start. Have you ever reduced the port size to get more shots at a lower velocity?
Halfstep
Yep definitely the transfer port hole smaller. That will give you more shot count with the same fill pressure.
Here check out the Crosman 1720T. It comes with two transfer port orafices. One installed and another you can put in. I had two of the 1720T’s. One low power and one high power.
/product/crosman-1720t-pcp-target-air-pistol?m=2705
Very nice guns with the 1399 shoulder stock too.
/product/crosman-1399-custom-shoulder-stock-fits-many-crosman-pistols?a=198
GF1,
Any chance that you know the orfice size of the two ports or maybe just the difference between them?
GF1,
If you look up this guy on YouTube he takes one apart (In Spanish)( as another name but same gun). Nicolas Figueroa is his channel.
Halfstep
Ok I will.
Halfstep
Sorry no help on the transfer port sizes.
I’m sure I had that info wrote on the target. I was anal about notes back then. But that was 4 or 5 years ago and I’m sure I pitched stuff when we moved.
I should of kept not in a note book I suppose but I didn’t.
GF1,
It’s all good. Just thought it would give me a starting point if I pursue this. I have been trying to record as much stuff as I can on my computer because I have been generating lots of notes and data lately and it’s all on little slips of paper or targets that I mislaid and can’t find when I need it. In other words, I haven’t thrown anything out but I might as well have because I can never find it. So I know what you mean.
Halfstep
You will have to let me know what you end I’m doing.
If you get it worked out I may have to get one. 🙂
BB et al..
Second off topic entry this evening – hope you find this interesting.
As I mentioned earlier with the Rifled Polymer Pythons – I’ll just call them RPP’s in future – the accuracy with pellets was the same or worse than with BB’s. At first I thought it was pellet choice in the RPP’s but after testing with about 10 different pellets over the last week or so I decided it had to be something else.
Disregarding the pellets that were too small to be retained properly by the metal rotary pellet clips I was left with about 7 different types that all shot 3 inch or greater groups at 7 yards. The something else turned out to be seating the pellets in the clips. After a few trial and errors I found that Gamo Competition and Daisy Wad Cutters were the best of what I had. These are El Cheapo’s from PA and the trick is to seat them useing the head of the Cap from a Crosman Pelgun Oil tube. When you seat them with the black Pelgun Oil Cap just listen for or feel the crunch as the pellets are seated. Sometimes the seating takes a little bit of force.
Groups from both the 2.5 inch and the 6 inch RPP’s went from over 3 inches to less than 1.25 inches at 21 yards.
Clearly, seated pellets are the only way to shoot these RPP’s for any kind of accuracy. I expect now that I can sight in the RPP’s better the resulting
groups will continue to get smaller.
Cheers
Dave
Redrafter.
Here is the one I have.
/product/colt-python-357-co2-pellet-bb-revolver?m=4060
Mine shoots pellets real well. But not bb’s not good at all. It likes the Daisy wadcutters as well and also the Daisy pointed pellets.
And I also deep seat but with a Bic ink pen cap. My Bengamin WildFire likes the Daisy wadcutters too. And I also deep seat the pellets for it too.
And the Colt I have is also good out at pretty much the same distance of 21 yards. The Wildfire does 35 or so yards pretty well.
And agree deep seating seems to be the way to go for these types of clips.
Gunfun1
Your 6″ RPP is identical to mine – bought from PA as well. They’re just a nice gun to shoot now that I have the ammo problem sorted and believe me when I say you need the 2.5″ Version as well. The ‘snubby’ is an absolute hoot to shoot! – and the Dan Wesson ‘snubby’ holster is a perfect fit.
Right now its up for grabs which pellet I will settle on useing. The Gamo Match are really poorly made with no QC. I discard quite a few of them but they seem to have a bit of an edge over the Daisy Black Box pellets. I have a couple of tins and boxex of each so will probably know by next summer which ones will be the best for what I have in mind then.
BTW about this time last year I think you had seal problems with your Brodax pistol. Were you able to fix it or find new seals. The reason I ask is because I’m having similar problems but may have found an easy fix.
Cheers
Dave
Dave
Just noticed a typo or mebbe it was brain freeze in my second entry. Where it says 21 yards should be 7 yards or 21 FEET!!
My bad!
Redrafter
No never did get a seal for the Brodax. Tryed different things and would not last. Interested to hear what you tryed.
And no typo for me. My Python shoots surprisingly well at 21 yards. And that is bench resting. And the trigger stop I did on it helped tremendously. I’ll post a picture of it.
And I should mention that the 21 yards for the Python and 35 yards for the WildFire is outside plinking at aluminum 12 oz. cans. And that is using no support. But for sure both guns are very fun fast action shooters. Definitely worth the money.
Hey Gunfun1
The trigger stop looks interesting. I think I read here in the blog that you made it from hot glue. How does it work on the Python shooting double action?
I will post how I repaired the seal here later this evening when the next blog starts – 10:00PM Mountain Time. I’ll try to get it posted at the very beguining. That way may be able to help others with the same problem as well!
Cheers
Dave
Redrafter
That’s exactly why I did the trigger stop was to speed up my shooting in double action. Plus it seemed to help stabilize the gun some.
I made it long and started trimming it off a little at a time just to where the shot would break at the stop point. Definitely a more precise trigger that way.
Hey Gunfun1
I may have try to make a trigger stop like yours as my plans for this gun next summer will be mostly double action shooting.
I’ll keep you in the loop and let you know how it works.
BTW I finally got the seal fix posted in the new blog. Only took 2 hours as the Internet here was major hiccuping. Sometimes I get this big itch to take all this technology down to the range and use it for target practice. Wouldn’t it be neat to load a computer up with 2 or 3 loads of binary and then shoot it. Ha ha!!
Cheers
Dave
Redrafter
Ok will check out the new blog.
And l do hope you try the trigger stop. I think you will be surprised at how the gun shoots with it once you get it set.
And yep like to take my phone for a walk one day if you know what I mean.
Dave,
You are doing all the right things. Maybe YOU should write that blog I mentioned in my other comment? 😉
B.B.
BB
Don’t mean to criticize here. But your groups always look bigger than what you measure. The dime does help put it in perspective but the group’s look scattered.
I wonder if backing up away from the target some and show the whole target and some of the white outer edge of the paper when you take the picture. Maybe that would help get the size better. I don’t think detailed close ups of the holes is really necessary.
And I hope you don’t take this the wrong way because you definitely know how to aim and shoot a camera for sure. Maybe I shouldn’t post this. But here it goes anyway.
GF1,
They look bigger to me, too.I often measure them several times at different points in the writing process, just to make sure they are close. They will never be exact but I do try to get them as close as I possibly can.
I think the problem is mental. Since the group is measured between centers, it will look larger than it is, because it is larger. To get the size I measure from the outside of the two farthest holes and subtract one pellet’s diameter.
Sometimes there is tearing of the outer holes that I can see easily but you can’t tell in the picture. That will make a group appear larger than it really is.
I don’t want to back up too much because then we lose detail. I dislike seeing a group that’s the size of a pencil eraser onscreen, but is really over an inch.
B.B.
Gunfun1,
I’ve actually felt the same way about some of the groups I’ve posted, which is part of the reason I’ll occasionally include a thumbtack or pencil in the photo for scale. Measuring the groups for non-wadcutters in particular has been one of the hardest parts of my blogs. I measure REPEATEDLY with good digital calipers accurate to a thousandth of an inch, and have been extremely cautious not to under-report group sizes. Of course center-to-center means you measure the outside edges of the group at its widest point, then subtract one pellet width (.177 or .22 inches). It is arduous work with pellets that don’t leave nice, crisp holes.
Hiveseeker
And see. Your picture does seemed to be backed off more than BB’s picture. I know your group is at a closer shooting distance and your group is tighter.
What helps your picture also is that type of target with numbers calling out the rings helps. Along with the pellet next to the numbers and the group.
And your backed off enough to make your mind pick up on the whole target. Not just seeing holes in a location. There’s actually more detail that is captured being farther away from the target when the picture is taken.
It’s kind of like when you see a picture on a wall of a pretty girls face. I don’t want to see part of her nose and a part of her mouth and a corner of her eye. I want to see the whole picture of her face. 🙂
Gunfun1,
Thanks. The distance is just what looks “right” to me. And in my last blog I showed an entire target page with 5 groups to save space! Though some tiny groups deserve the close-up treatment. Wish I had bigger back yard; 20 yards is as far as I can go.
Hiveseeker
20 yards is a nice shooting distance. Especially for some off hand shooting.
HiveSeeker,
If you want to get very accurate group measurements, place a piece of plastic behind the paper target. Round plastic lids work well or pieces cut from milk or water jugs. Unless the group is actually a “one holer” the outlying shots can be easily determined since there is normally little or no tearing around the individual shots.
As an example for .177 caliber, use two # 15 drill bits of which the nominal size measures .180″, normally the shank is a bit smaller, mine being .178″. Poke the two shanks through the two widest shots and measure as usual subtracting the actual measured diameter of one of the drills used.
Personally, I believe that corrugated cardboard when used as a target backer can also skew the group size on lower velocity air guns since the pellet can kick one way or another due to where it strikes the ridges and valleys of the cardboard.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster
That plastic behind the target is a good idea. I believe that’s why the gorilla tape I use on my pellet/bullet stop gives pretty good group hole size.
I think that gives a more accurate hole to measure. Not that I’m worried about measuring the group size but helps give a better visual of the group.
Gunfun1, I’d forgotten you’d mentioned that. Think I’ll give it a try. Also, should have mentioned with my pic above that laying the target on a bright contrasting color paper is a big help. Also, sometimes looking at the back of the target shows a pellet impact or edge a bit better, especially if the shot has “frayed” the black ink on the target paper.
Hiveseeker
Try it and let me know how it works for you.
Thanks, Bugbuster, though — whooeeee! — that seems like a lot of work. Gunfun1 below just reminded me of his Gorilla Tape idea. Now, I’m actually in favor of protecting them there gorillas, but it sounds good enough that I may give it a try!
BB
It’s not about not measuring right. I know your doing that good. It’s just that the groups look separated for being that small.
I knew you had a reason behind why you took the closer up shots. But just figured I would mention it. You should post maybe one picture of the best group shot of the day with the whole target showing along with the way you do it now.
And you know that brings another thing up. We now have that feature to easily post pictures but I don’t think I recall you ever posting any additional pictures throughout the comments.
Maybe you could do that even today of a farther away picture if you still have the targets laying around. I know your busy but it would be interesting to see the difference.
BB
And I just seen what’s giving the illusion the group is spread out I believe.
If I was to see the whole target it would be easier to see that’s a pretty small diameter target your using.
What is it about a 1-3/4 inch diameter?
BB,
Yes, the new Bug Buster would be a superb hunting scope as is the rest of the Bug Buster line. I have one of these on top of my HM1000X.
/product/utg-4-16×56-bubble-leveler-ao-rifle-scope-swat-ao-ez-tap-illuminated?a=7683
It is great for long range shooting, but it is one big honker. You would not want to mount this on a Maximus. Whatever happened to the decent quality 3/4″ and 1″ scopes? I guess the scope manufacturers have been doing the same thing as the airgun manufacturers.
RR-
I had the bubble scope on my Discovery before I got the Marauder. It’s a great scope and its range is a lot farther than the Disco can shoot but it’s a good fit for the .25 M-rod.
BBB,
LOL! I’ll bet that Disco was a sight with that humongous scope on top!
BB,
P.S.
Don’t pay any attention to GF1. Your pictures are fine. 😉
🙂
Hiveseeker
And I didn’t even read all the comments before I replied to you above.
See what I mean about your big smiley face. It’s whole face is kinda cute. 🙂
Now just think if you only showed the right quarter of the picture of the smiley face. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy the whole smiley face. 😉
Here. See what I mean.
(Thumbs up!)
Hiveseeker
🙂
RR
Read my comment above to Hiveseeker. Then read the comment below I made to Hiveseeker.
I think you will get what I mean then.
GF1,
Oh, I get what you mean.
No matter what you do, you cannot make everybody happy.
By the way, I like your quarter smiley face. 😉
RR
I know. It’s me.
When I look at the picture of the group with it taken that close my attention is focused on what the quality I guess I’ll say of what the holes look like.
I’m not really seeing a group on the target. I’m just seeing the shape of the holes pop out at me.
Really I should be seeing a target and then focus on where the group’s at and what the whole group looks like. That way then my attention is drawn to the size of the group is. Not what each individual hole looks like.
So you like my quarter smiley face. So let me ask what do you focus on when you first see it. A eyeball starring at you.
I see a bean setting on a corner of a yellow plate. 😉
GF1,
I see a smiley face peeking around the corner and if he moves just a little more to the right I will put a pellet between his beany eyes.
I like to study the group, looking for sub groups and such. I try to analyze how the rifle, projectile and shooter are interacting, looking for ways to reduce the group further. Until I achieve the best grouping regularly, it is irrelevant where the group is on the target.
RR
Now that would be a quick way to turn a smiley face into a frowny face.
😉
Anyway back to the gun.
BB
Between the trigger pull and the bolt cycling. Do you feel that you need to hold your point of aim follow through longer when you take a shot with this gun.
I know on my spring guns I need to keep my hold longer than some of my PCP gun’s. And by hold longer I’m talking keeping the scope on target and grip the same till after the pellet lands.
I find if I come off my hold or start relaxing as soon as the shot goes off I don’t shoot as good of a group as when I stay holding.
Maybe this gun likes to move still after the shot is released.
GF1,
You just described a perfect follow-through. I do that instinctively, so yes would be my answer. I always follow through after each shot.
B.B.
BB
Me too. But I do catch myself at times not. It’s like I’m shooting through my group and I go wow. I’m lifting the gun off the bag or getting my hand ready to grab another pellet.
I think the longer a person shoots they forget about all the things they do naturally. Then some times it just pops right out at you and realize man I been forgetting to do such and such.
But I would like to shoot the gun to see how it actually feels on the rest. I know my FX Monsoon needed held onto with that semi-auto action. It would bump the gun pretty good.
GF1,
I think I know what is happening. You are looking at the holes on the target — thinking they were all made by pellets. They weren’t. These were domed pellets that tore the target paper.
The second target is the worst. There is a long tear on the right side that extends way past where the pellet penetrated. When I measure the target I can see this, and I enlarge the targets so you can see it, too. But on targets like this, the tear makes the group look confusing.
Mike a dime and you’ll have an ideal reference. That’s what we do with overhead (pictures from space) photos when we are interpreting intelligence.
B.B.
BB
I just replied I think about the same time you was replying here.
But here’s my comment again.
“BB
And I just seen what’s giving the illusion the group is spread out I believe.
If I was to see the whole target it would be easier to see that’s a pretty small diameter target your using.
What is it about a 1-3/4 inch diameter?”
And ok I will try that with micrometer on the dime.
B.B.,
I’m curious about the performance of the magazines in this semi-auto. Did you test all 3 magazines that came with the Bullmaster? Any problems?
kevin
Kevin
Are mentioning that from what your buddy’s exsperiance was with his FX Monsoon he had?
No, just semi auto’s in general
Kevin
True.
Kevin,
No, I only used one. These mags are so stiff and odd that I was glad just to be able to make the one work.
B.B.
Thank you
B.B.,
Thank you for telling me about the Airforce/GunPower connection.
I am hoping to catch up on these reports on Hatsan air rifles. I probably mentioned that a month or so ago I got to shoot a .30 Carnivore. It is a heavy rifle, but I enjoyed the opportunity to try it out.
~ken
Ken,
I shot one at the Pyramyd AIR Cup, but I haven’t tested one yet.
B.B.
BB
Was it the .30 caliber or .357?
Did you like it?
GF1,
It was the .30 caliber. I thought the gun cocked easier than I remembered (it’s basically a Hatsan 135) and it was decently accurate. The rifle I shot had been gone through by Rich Shar, as I recall, so perhaps that’s why it was so nice.
B.B.
BB
Good I have been thinking for a while now to go to .30 caliber this time around instead of .25 after I let my .25 Marauder go.
I have eyeballed this .30 Hatsan for a while. Matter of fact I was waiting for you to review one when they came out I remember. But you never did.
Probably not going to happen?
GF1,
I wouldn’t say that. I am certainly interested in it. But I have had a number of airguns pushed at me, including the three Hatsans under test at the moment. I only have some many days available, so I will be looking for an opportunity.
B.B.
BB
Ok was just wondering if it might happen.
All I know is my Pyramyd AIR wish list keeps growing day by day.
🙂
Ah, yes. The difference between a rich wood stock and a synthetic stock. I certainly like the look and feel of wood, but a good synthetic stock works well for me these days.
~ken
BB
Hey wait a minute. We are talking about two different types of guns here.
Here is a 135. It’s not a PCP.
/product/hatsan-135-qe-vortex-air-rifle?m=3976
Here is the Carnivore. It is a PCP. This is the gun I’m talking about.
/product/hatsan-bt-big-bore-carnivore-qe-air-rifle?m=3571
Ken
How did you like it.
I have thought about one of those in the past. And that paticular caliber too. Not the .357 caliber model.
Gunfun1,
I definitely like it. In fact the only thing I didn’t like is the weight. Scoped it is over 10 pounds. But, with a rest, even a bi-pod, I think would like this rifle a lot. Of course lugging it and other equipment around requires that I exercise more.
~ken
Ken
Yep heavy guns and the extras does make for more work.
But definitely willing to overlook that if it’s accurate. 🙂
GF1,
Sorry. I though the Carnivore was what they named their breakbarrel .30 caliber.
No plans to test the PCP Carnivore.
B.B.
BB
It didn’t even Dawn on me that the gun you was talking about was a gas spring till I remember the .30 caliber break barrel Hatsan makes.
Yep definitely don’t want the break barrel gun. I’m talking .30 caliber pcp for longer distance shooting.
And bummer you not going to get the PCP Carnivore in your hands.
Yay, for the Star Wars looking gun. The comparisons at the beginning of the post between firearms and airguns and semiauto vs. bolt-action raise a lot of questions for me. I take it that airgun repeater level accuracy is better than firearm repeater accuracy. Why? If it’s because the round is moved by air instead of a bolt, what difference does that make? The bolt seems like it would be more secure. This all has to do with the mechanism of operation so I guess it really is one question about the difference between semiauto and bolt actions. Once the bolt chambers the round into the chamber, what difference does it make whether the round comes single-shot or from a magazine or whether the bolt is operated by hand or by gunpowder gases (firearm) or air? This history would seem to be erased once the round is in the chamber. So why the differences in semiauto, firearm and airgun accuracy?
In the pic, it looks like there is no second bag under the buttstock. I’ve found that this makes a difference for bench-shooting.
Matt61
Matt,
Thank you for suggesting Friday’s blog!
B.B.
BB
Could you comment on the bag that makes your gun a wiener in a hot dog bun vs the usual square bag?
I’m trying to decide what to order.
Idaho,
I’ve used lots of bags and I like mine the best. It’s three times as long as wide and there are many different way to use it. Also, fill with crushed walnut shell. They are as dense as sand but weigh half as much.
B.B.
BB
Thanks much.