Sig ASP20 rifle with Whiskey3 ASP 4-12X44 scope: Part 5

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Sig ASP20
Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

This report covers:

  • Cleaning the rifle
  • What baffles?
  • The silencer
  • Spool steps
  • Why am I doing this?
  • Barrel clean
  • More from Ed Schultz
  • Summary

Merry Christmas, everyone. I am working on tomorrow’s blog today, so, yes, there will be one. Today’s report will be shorter, but it’s to the point.

Cleaning the rifle

Today I will talk about cleaning the barrel of the Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle. When Ed Schultz of Sig said that some of their new air rifles respond to having their barrels cleaned lightly, the jungle drums started to beat aloud — “But it has a silencer! The cleaning patch will get lost in the baffles!”

What baffles?

And, just that quick, I have finished this report. Because, like many other airgun silencers, the ASP20 silencer has no baffles. NO BAFFLES! So, there is nothing to grab your cleaning patch.

The silencer

I showed you the inside of the ASP20 silencer when we toured Sig last July in the 4-part Sig Day report. Three “hair curlers” are lined up in tandem inside the can. They aren’t really hair curlers, but they look a lot like them, and several other airguns are also using them inside their silencers. They are essentially hollow tubes with holes on the sides where the turbulent air escapes. And they have no baffles. A wrap of felt then deadens the sound of that air.

ASP20 silencer spools
Three of these plastic spools snap together to form the guts of the ASP20 silencer. There is a straight hole through their centers.

ASP20 silencer wrap
Each spool is wrapped with felt. The spiny projections on the outside of the spool grab the felt and hold it fast.

Spool steps

Ed did say that where the spools connect there is a “step” that’s 2.3mm high. That’s 0.0906-inches tall. So, if you want some baffles, there you go. Ed uses a common jag to push patches through the bore. Jags are just pointed pieces of metal that have no good way of really holding the patch, other than they are sticking through it and pushing it in the same direction.

jag
A jag pushes cloth patches through the bore of a rifle.

ASP20 hair curler
This hair curler is not from a Sig gun, but it is similar. It is from another airgun silencer and, as you can see, it has no baffles.

Why am I doing this?

You may wonder why I’m harping on cleaning the barrel today. I’m doing it because I mentioned it a couple reports ago and some readers started talking about the horrors of loosing patches in baffles. Well, now you know that there ain’t no baffles in the ASP20 silencer. So, I am about to clean the barrel. I use a loop instead of a jag, but you can use either one.

Barrel clean

It took me about 10 minutes to clean the barrel, using cloth patches, only. I did wet some of the patches with Safari Charlie High Tech Gun Cleaning Lubricant, which I have found works well on spring gun barrels.

ASP20 patches
Starting at the top left and going right, and then down each row, left to right, here are 20 patches that went through my ASP20 barrel. The patches that are slightly yellow are the ones that have cleaner on them.

I used 20 patches in all. The early ones were hard to push through the bore, but after about a dozen patches they started going easier and the last few met with very little resistance. Patches used = 20. Patches lost in the silencer = 0. I even pulled a couple patches back through the barrel — just to challenge things.

In short, there are no baffles and there is no problem with losing a patch in the ASP20 silencer. If you do, just load a pellet and shoot it out. There is nothing inside the silencer to hold the patch.

More from Ed Schultz

Ed told me to try some Wrath Ballistic Alloy pellets. I told him I had some, but when I checked it turned out I had the lead ones only. I have the Crux pellets in ballistic alloy. I have asked him for a tin of the Wrath Ballistic Alloy pellets to test, as well.

He also said the barrel is tight and any pellet with a head larger than 5.52mm will fit very tight. So I have to consider that.

And finally he told me he is sending me a new screw for the rear triggerguard. That one is a wood screw that people are stripping out. I haven’t stripped mine because Sig warned me about it and I warned all of you about it in Part 4. This will apply to all rifles with serial numbers lower than 389. If you need one for your rifle, call Sig’s customer service at 603-610-3000, option 1, and they will send it to you. I imagine they will want to know your rifle’s serial number for their records.

Summary

Where does this leave us? Well, I think the next test is to shoot the rifle at 25 yards and compare the groups with those from Part 4. That will tell us whether the accuracy has changed from the cleaning. I may try a couple new pellets, as well. And, once I have the best pellet I think I can also test the difference on accuracy between a sandbag rest and an artillery hold.

70 thoughts on “Sig ASP20 rifle with Whiskey3 ASP 4-12X44 scope: Part 5



  1. B.B.,

    The thought just occurred to me, what does the “dirt” from new barrels consists of? At what step of the barrel making process does it get there?

    May the Lord continue to bless you with good health. Merry Christmas!

    Siraniko


    • Siraniko,

      Merry Christmas to you.

      The “dirt” comes from the manufacturing process. It gets there every step of the way.

      At AirForce I used to clean the barrels before installation, but I had hundreds to clean, so I couldn’t take a lot of time. Maybe five passes per barrel.

      B.B.



  2. B.B.,

    I have never used a jag type head and really wondered how they were to be used. I use the loop type, for now. Geo linked a newer system awhile back,…..

    http://www.patchworm.com/patchworm.html

    I really like the concept of the silicone plugs applying the outwards pressure. Sure, you still need the right size patch and they all basically do the same thing, but I like it none the less.

    Surely there must be some type of cleaning process involved during the manufacturing. Of course, cleaning out metal chips, filings, solvents and lube residues is different from cleaning out lead build up. I figure at least a high pressure wash of sorts. Then, I would also venture that there is a light coat of oil applied to the inside of the barrel to act as a rust preventative prior to shipping, which in theory could dry out and become gummy.

    I suppose that it is impractical to expect a new gun to be (pull through, patch cleaned) upon arrival. It would stand then that cleaning (any) new air gun barrel upon arrival is desirable. At least that takes it back to new status.

    At any rate, the whole topic of when to clean, what to use, how often and such is an interesting topic.

    Is there a reason you have chosen Safari Charlie’s stuff? Is it better? How?

    Trying the alloy pellets will be interesting. In Part 4, you mentioned the turrets are set up for the 16g Crux lead pellets, so it will be interesting to see how the near/far markings work with the alloys (12.35 and 10.03 grains). I do not see SIG lead pellets offered yet, only the alloys. Those alloys are not cheap. 13.49 cents for one in .22 when my 33.95 JSB in .25 run 6.33 cents each. Those things better fly to the target like laser guided missiles for that price. 🙂

    And,.. with alloy pellets,…. does that create a new/different issues for cleaning? More often, less often, different solvent required. I only use Ballistol, a loop and patches now.

    And, other than environmental concerns (and) being able to boast a higher fps,….. is there any (other) purpose/benefit that I am overlooking with alloys?

    Ok, I am done,….. 🙂 Having the day off, prior days off and the ability/time to drink more than 2 cups of coffee have resulted in this rather lengthy post. At least it should toss out some questions for discussion.

    Merry Christmas to one and all and (Thank You B.B. for all you do, for all of us),…… Chris

    P.S.,… What did everyone get? Looking forwards to hearing of some real surprises. Me? The Red Wolf was my early gift to myself. I figure that should cover me for the next 20 years, or so. 😉


    • Chris,

      The jag works very similar to the Patchworm. You stick the patch on the end and you push it through the bore. I have used jags and loops. I prefer the loop myself.

      A rig I have used since I was a tweeny is a length of good quality nylon string with a loop tied on one end and a small lead shot gently hammered to fit down the bore on the other end. I still have it. It still works.



      • GF1,

        3? Heck, I was finishing my 4th when I hit post! 🙂 I like the grind at home stuff on the days off and maybe? enjoy it a wee much. Nothing compares to the grind your own. Far superior. Just find the bean and roast you like and the grinders are like $10 at Wally World.

        Chris


        • Chris
          It’s been years since I drank coffee. But if I still did I would have to grind my own too. My dad use to when I was a kid. I liked it better than the already ground stuff. Seems to have more flavor. And I guess the cream and sugar will take care of that. I never could drink it black. That was a bit too much for me.




            • Chris USA,

              IF? you really like your coffee so much then why oh why do you hack your beans with a chopper?
              Young man get out there and get yourself a proper coffee mill! One that has adjustable burr grinding stones to get that bean down to the perfect sized particles to make Java to die for. I use a LaPavoni Euromatic machine for espresso/cappachino or I do pour over style for more and larger mugs.

              shootski


              • Shootski,

                Thank you for sharing your barrel cleaning regime. The bore scope sounds interesting.

                On coffee,… I am afraid that I do not go quite that far. Just home grinding is a huge improvement. Like many things, how far do you want to go? Years ago I worked at an instant coffee factory in the QC dept. and had access to green beans from all over the world, small batch roasters. I do not recall the grinder. Roasted many a bean back then for just a cup or two.

                I will have to do some research into grinders.

                Thanks,… Chris


            • Chris,

              Yup, I like my coffee in the morning too. We have a Mr. Coffee that uses the Keurig cups. It only makes two cups at a time. It’s quick and simple and I like a variety of flavors. I like Hazlenut and when I can find it, Mocha. But like all the different flavors. Always black only, and usually two cups… or maybe three. Your flavor sounds interesting too.


              • Geo,

                I try to stay away from flavored things as all too often, things are artificial. Mine is not flavored at all, but rather just the bean and degree of roast. Apparently, the degree of grind affects flavor too, per Shootski, and I am in no position to argue. I grind mine quite well and it works for me.

                My brother had some friends that were getting into the gourmet coffee business and all 3 went to Cali. to take a full “course” in all matter’s Java, years ago. Not sure how that ended up. My sister uses the French press method and also grinds at home. I use a sub $20 Mr. Coffee and use at least 1 cup of grind per 12 “cup” pot. Home grind is a big step up though.

                Like air guns,… I could see myself going off the “deep-end of the pool” if I was to learn more. The more you learn,…. the more things become “must haves/can’t live without”. One must learn cautiously at their own risk.

                A wood fired, stone pizza/bake oven would be nice too! My wallet and waistline begs to differ though. 😉

                🙂 Chris



  3. Watching “Christmas Story”, as is the norm on Christmas Day. However,… I have a question regarding the Red Ryder,…..

    What is the purpose of the ring and leather thong that adorns the left side of the receiver? Does it have a function or is it purely for aesthetics? If not mistaken, other lever actions have that feature as well. Perhaps to tie into a scabbard while horse riding to keep the rifle from bouncing out? Purely a guess on my part.

    Chris


    • Chris,

      On the Red Ryder it is just for looking at.

      It was a feature that was common on military carbines of the 1800’s. A cavalryman would have a harness with a long tipped hook to slide through the ring to keep it at the ready when riding into battle. Nowadays they have a similar setup for their weapons.

      The last time I was in my Way Back Machine I saw a rig for black powder pistols. This was a long rod running parallel to the barrel. Since pistols were still a pretty new concept, they had not figured out the holster thing yet. The rod was for slipping under the belt or sash to hold the pistol handy. Not a bad idea really.


    • Chris,

      The saddle ring was for tying your carbine to your saddle in case you dropped it while on horseback. Like a lanyard on a military pistol. Almost never used ion real life and just a decoration on the BB gun, as was the leather thong.

      You might have questioned the sundial and compass even more since they have no firearm equivalencies that I know of.

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        The sundial and compass made perfect sense. They added the all important “bling”! 😉 And really,… why not on a firearm? There is those survival knives that have the compass and fishing kits and match holders all built in.

        In fact,… been looking at one that purports to be able to saw down trees, split wood, build cabins, kill bears and the fishing kit is guarantied to catch fish so that after you have had a full day of wilderness survival, you got a meal ready. Heck,… for $9.99 plus S/H,… I might even get two. Build the cabin in half the time and eat twice as much fish! Well, that is the plan anyways. 😉

        Chris






  4. BB
    I would like to see a test of before and after cleaning the barrel results.

    And I kind of just shoot a gun and it seems after a couple hundred shots the accuracy comes in. So maybe cleaning just speeds up the process?

    And what I have done in the past is put a couple drops of oil in the barrel and shoot and accuracy comes back in.

    And speaking of oil in the barrel. I was reading the Hatsan bullmaster manual. I read something that surprised me. It said do not oil the barrel. And note it didn’t say why not to oil it. As in what it would cause to happen. But that made me think why it said that. And I don’t know if other Hatsan guns say that in their manuals. But I’m wondering if it has something to do with the performance of the semi-auto action the bullmaster has.

    It looks like the bullmaster uses a similar design as the FX Monsoon. There a piston inside the shroud that gets pushed back by the air from the shot as it exits the barrel. That then pushes a linkage that cycles the bolt. So I’m thinking the oil might make a gummy lead dust that could make that piston not funtion smoothly.

    And thinking farther back. My first Monsoon functioned flawlessly and was accurate right out of the box. My second Monsoon was not accurate out of the box. And I did put a few drops of oil in the barrel at times. And I don’t recall that FX mentioned anything about oiling the barrel. But maybe I caused the second Monsoon I had to have cycling problems because of the oil in the barrel and possibly gummy lead dust in the shroud area.

    So saying that. Oil in the barrel might not be good for guns with the setup like the bullmaster and Monsoon has. But I don’t see it to be a problem with guns with a shroud or no shroud. Heck I still oil the barrel in my guns when I see accuracy go away and it’s worked everytime I have done it.

    So all in all. Can’t a barrel just be shot clean with pellets in a given amount of time?



      • BB
        Well I’m glad you tryed it. And it was dirty.

        Don’t recall how many shots you put through it. But at least now we can see what difference it makes on your next 25 yard test after this cleaning.


        • GF1,

          I bet you pull patches through any of your airguns and they will look the same. And, say it is clean as a whistle,… then you still have to “season” the barrel, right? Then,…. shoot 100 pellets and clean again. Then what? Will the patches be as dirty or will it take as many to get to the final clean one?

          Cleaning the factory “gunk” out is one thing. But after that?

          On the DOC site (Daystate Owners Club) there is (many) that swear to clean about every 500 pellets. Of course these are folks that are shooting the high end stuff all of the time, have several and shoot competitions. Largely from the European region of the world, but all over as well. Good site and folks just like us except that they just play with more expensive “toys”.

          Back to cleaning though,.. if you (in fact) have a “precision” barrel,…. could it be that it (does) need to be cleaned after 500 shots or so to maintain optimal accuracy? I do not know. I only have about 700-800 through the RW and was playing heavily with head and weight sort testing before it got cold,… so I have nothing to offer for my experience this year. Plus I was working on my fundamentals at the end as well.

          I think that Shootski has some high end competition air rifles and competes, so maybe he will weigh in and can share what his cleaning regiment is for the high end stuff?

          Chris


          • Chris
            My answer to that about cleaning is.

            Once you shoot your gun accuracy will pretty much stay the same. Of course there will be variations that happen also. But in a fairly short time you will be able to see the accuracy from the gun your shooting.

            But then if accuracy changes is when you need to do something. I wouldn’t clean every 500 shots. I would clean when I see accuracy change.

            And what barrels do the Daystates use? Lothar Walther? If so that’s what AirForce guns use as well as some Crosman guns and so on. So I wouldn’t say it’s a high end gun needs cleaned more than a low end gun or vise versa.

            I think that accuracy needs addressed if you see a change. Or with a new gun if you don’t think it’s shooting as accurately as it should.


            • GF1,

              The best I can tell you on the barrel is that it is a L/W. The original on-line ad script said “Special Select”,… whatever that means. I may write them someday and ask. At any rate, I seriously doubt that a L/W barrel that you can buy for the 2240 is going to be the same quality as one found on a Daystate. If I am wrong,… so be it.

              And,.. if I am wrong,… are the (barrels) on the “Lego-Matics”,… as I call them,.. (high end competition guns) that are fully adjustable in every conceivable way,… any better?

              Chris


              • Chris
                Hard to say. But yep writing them and asking would for sure be the thing to do.

                And I think them errector guns use CZ barrels in some if I remember right.

                And why does a expensive barrel have to be good. Why can’t a for example a Maximus barrel be good. And what about the Crosman Challenger. It uses a Lothar Walther barrel.

                So who knows about quality in cheaper gun or more expensive guns.


                • GF1,

                  My Maximus barrel is good, as is the M-Rod as well as the RW. All 3 different designs, if not mistaken. Then you have FX always pushing the limits on barrels and breaking the conventional mold. So who knows? It would be interesting to hear from a company that actually makes barrels and what they consider paramount and why.

                  Then again,… each would probably say, “that is confidential” and that they are not going to “go there”.

                  Chris


                  • Chris
                    There’s a pretty good video from FX about their factory tour. The full length video shows some important steps to making their smooth twist barrels.

                    Other than that I don’t recall to many other brand air guns that have videos about their barrel making processes.

                    And in all reality I’m surprised the Maximus barrels are as good as they are with Crosman’s new barrel making process.

                    At least we have nowdays a wide rang of air guns from low cost to high cost that do shoot accurately.

                    Heck I’m surprised how well my Gauntlet shoots and I wonder who makes the barrel for it.

                    But I imagine we won’t know all the details to barrel making very soon from the company’s making barrels. I’m sure they are gaurding that info.


      • B.B.,

        An interesting test for that Patch Worm kit would be to start with a clean barrel, fire 100 shots, clean with a conventional set up (then) shoot 100 more and clean with the Patch Worm set up. Would the Patch Worm do the job quicker (less patches). Would it do it better? Many variables, but that seems like a good baseline test for someone to do. I am sure that you would, but it would be very impractical due to time constraints and putting that many shots through a single rifle. Just thinking aloud,….. 😉

        Chris


        • Chris
          That’s exactly why I believe the more you shoot a given gun the more you learn about it.

          And what would you think happened if you did the test you just described and it shot worse groups?

          What would you do next?


    • I’ve had two ASP20’s now, and both were just as accurate.
      First one I cleaned the barrel, only a few patches and it was coming pretty clean.
      The second one I just took out of the box, mounted the scope, and went shooting. Just as accurate as the first one. I don’t think I am going to bother cleaning it. It doesn’t seem to come with barrel gunk, like some protective film or anything.

      When I did clean the first one, it was very dark grey and lightening with each patch, none of the brown or solid black gunk.


      • Wimpanzee
        Thanks for the info. Good to know.

        And like I mentioned I just shoot a air gun out of the box. Usually I can tell after about 30-50 shots if the guns going to stabilize. Then if it don’t I will take a few drops of oil down the barrel where the pellet loads. Shoot about 20 more shots and the gun usually comes in then.

        Now firearms that’s another story. I usually clean the barrel with a brass brush after every shooting session. And the action also with a patch or such by wiping it down with some oil.

        But I think it boils down to just watching what the guns accuracy does. Then go from there. Just my opinion and the way I have always done it.


        • GF1,

          When you say “a few drops of oil”, are you then using silicone oil? Do you do this on your PCPs as well? If added to the fill port of a PCP, would that not accomplish the same result?


          • Geo
            First off no not in the fill port of a PCP gun. That usually is for keeping the o-rings and such lubbed. And for that I only use silicone oil. No petroleum based oil there. Can go boom as I’m sure already know. But it don’t distribute oil to the barrel that way like it does when put the oil directly in the barrel.

            And as for the barrel for restoring accuracy I use about 3 drops were the pellet is loaded. And I do it with spring guns, nitro piston guns as well as multi-pump and pcp guns. And for that I have used pell gun oil, silicone oil, 3 and 1 oil, and even liquid WD40 when I don’t have the others.

            What I think the oil in the barrel does is allows the pellet to grab any contaminates and push them out the barrel. And on another note I know there are some field target shooters that lube their pellets because it helps accuracy.


  5. Merry Christmas, everyone. Hope Santa was good to you all!

    I got an ONIX pistol this year. It’s another name for the Snowpeak 700PP-SA PPC gun that is sold here as an AIRMAX 700 or something like that. In the UK it’s a ZASDAR. I bought mine from Madrid, Spain and unfortunately the manual is is Spanish, ONLY! It is supposed to have an externally adjustable regulator, hammer spring, and transfer port, but I don’t have instructions that I can read. I also don’t have pictures that give me any clues. If anyone has one of these and can give me some insight into the adjustments, I would be grateful.

    Enjoy the day,

    Half


    • Halfstep
      Did you check the manual for the version sold over here? Maybe search it and see what comes up.

      And you might check the GTA. They talk about the 700. Might be some info there.

      But sounds like a nice pistol.


  6. GF1,

    Have done a search for the manual, both US and UK versions, with no luck so far. Need to do a more general search on the gun, I guess. Will really dig in after Xmas, but I’m done with it for a few days.

    Merry Christmas, Half



    • Halfstep,
      Giles at airgun gear show on youtube has done a review of that pistol. His video may have a piece of information for you. If not, it will be entertaining.
      Gerald


      • Gerald,

        That’s one of the reviews that got me to buy ( I mean got Santa to buy) the gun. I don’t remember if he addressed the tuning particulars though, since I think their guns need to be sub 5 or 6 fpe or they need some sort of special licence or permit. My gun is supposed to be the ” full power ” version which I think is capable of around 9 fpe. You are certainly right about his reviews being entertaining. Would love to meet him sometime. He’s a hoot!

        Half


  7. Hope you all have had or are having a very Merry Christmas,

    As far as cleaning new barrels; YES! I have always cleaned new barrels before ever shooting a bullet or pellet through them. Is that what everyone should do? Depends on if you have a quality borescope to inspect your barrels.
    You could inspect and then decide based on what you find. I personally do not think a borescope is any different than a cleaning rod in that it can score the bore if dirty or from dirt in the barrel. So I have always used a new boresnake before ever introducing anything else into a barrel. After that I run a wet patch with TETRA bore conditioner through steel barrels. On brass airgun barrels all I ever do is dry patch. Once done cleaning I inspect with borescope and then start shooting. I never clean an airgun barrel again until I get a degradation of accuracy OR I know or suspect that dirt or debris has been introduced into a barrel. On firearm barrels I clean with an OTIS pull through (the NOMEX things) while the barrel is still hot. If I plan to shoot that PB more within a month I don’t do any other cleaning until I know it is going back into longer term storage. I do a disassemble, inspection and clean on all my PB once per year. On my airguns only if I suspect something is wrong or notice any hint of corrosion on field strip inspection.
    I think cleaning any barrel too much is bad…remember this is my opinion I am sharing. It is just like sharing stock market tips…only do what you are comfortable doing!

    I base my opinions on the fact that most all of the cleaning products industry grew up during the days of black powder and corrosive primers. Shooters have gotten into passing on a rigid code of cleaning. My opinion again is that we need to clean less inspect more. Spend the money you save on cleaning stuff and buy a borescope or get your guns done by a good Smith regularly.

    shootski





      • Tom, thanks for the clarification. I have seen a number of reviews around YouTube and other sites that show the gun arriving with the scope attached and it was not clear it was not included.

        Thanks so much for your great reviews and this blog. As a relatively new air gun owner (Beeman P1 and Benjamin Maurader Pistol with AR Stock / Hawke scope) I have learned so much from your writings and appearances on American Airgunner.



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