by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
AirForce Condor Ring-Loc Kit.
This report covers:
- Update
- The .22
- 0.232 orifice
- 0.166 orifice
- 0.145 orifice
- 0.125 orifice
- Discussion 1
- .177 Condor
- 0.166 orifice
- 0.145 orifice
- 0.123 orifice
- 0.145 orifice with .177-caliber 18-inch barrel and power wide open
- 0.123 orifice with .177-caliber 18-inch barrel and power wide open
- Temperature affects the results
- Discussion 2
- Summary
I’m not doing an historical report today because there are too many current airguns and other things on my plate. Today I will tell you more about the performance of the new Ring Loc Kit from AirForce. They have given me mounds of test data to choose from and I am abbreviating it for you. Today we’ll look at the performance in .22 caliber, as well as a glimpse into the world of the .177.
Update
The Ring Loc Kit contains orifices in sizes 0.232-, 0.166-, 0.145- and 0.123-inches. There is also that experimental orifice that has a pilot hole of 0.070-inches that’s too small to shoot anything, but serves as a pilot/guide for a small drill bit. I hope to get to that one soon.
The .22
The Condor first came out in .22 caliber in 2004. As I have reported, we tested the first 100 of them to make sure they all shot 14.3-grain Crosman Premier pellets at 1,250 f.p.s. or more. That was what we promised in our first ad campaign. That Condor produced up to 65 foot-pounds with the heaviest .22 pellets of that day, but since then AirForce has added the .25 caliber barrel which has pellets that are much heavier. Also several new very heavy pellets have come to market in .22. So the factory energy is now 80+ foot-pounds out the door. We looked at some of the .25 caliber performance data in part 2 and saw muzzle energies up to 102.77 foot-pounds, and AirForce has seen energies of up to 105 foot-pounds in their testing. So today’s Condor with a Ring Loc Kit puts out the same energy as a standard speed .22 long rifle cartridge at the muzzle. However, the air rifle is still safer than the firearm. The diabolo pellet design (wasp waist and hollow tail) slows the pellet much faster than the solid .22 long rifle bullet, making the Condor much safer downrange.
0.232 orifice
Let’s look at the .22 Condor’s performance with the 0.232-inch orifice. Remember, this orifice is the size that comes standard on the rifle as it comes from the factory (no kit). With a 32-grain pellet and the rifle set at maximum power it produces a top speed of 1100 f.p.s., which is 86 foot-pounds of muzzle energy! It shoots a 21 grain pellet out at a maximum of 1200 f.p.s., which is 67.16 foot-pounds and with a 14-grain pellet it sends it downrange at 1350 f.p.s. for a maximum energy of 56.67 foot-pounds. All these numbers come from an information page AirForce is making for their website, and some rounding has been done, but it still gives you the idea of where things are.
0.166 orifice
The 0.166-inch orifice is going to give less power than the 0.232-inch orifice but will have more shots per fill because it conserves air. Using these same three pellets and with the rifle’s power wheel still set on maximum, here are the numbers.
32-grain pellet — 1000 f.p.s. — 71.07 foot-pounds
21-grain pellet — 1130 f.p.s. — 59.56 foot-pounds
14-grain pellet — 1245 f.p.s. — 48.2 foot-pounds
0.145 orifice
This is the orifice that gives the Condor much more control over velocity. The power wheel really works with this orifice, rather than what it does when it’s running wide open. You can equate this to the jets in a carburetor. With large jets you can get a lot of power but the engine may never idle right. With small jets you get less power but better mileage and more stabile performance.
32-grain pellet — 925 f.p.s. — 60.81 foot-pounds
21-grain pellet — 1050 f.p.s. — 51.42 foot-pounds
14-grain pellet — 1160 f.p.s. — 41.84 foot-pounds
0.125 orifice
This smallest orifice is better-suited to the .177 and perhaps to the .20 caliber than to the .22 and .25 calibers. Once more we look at maximum numbers.
32-grain pellet — 780 f.p.s. — 43.24 foot-pounds
21-grain pellet — 910 f.p.s. — 38.62 foot-pounds
14-grain pellet — 1035 f.p.s. — 33.31 foot-pounds
Discussion 1
That is a very broad range of powers! But that’s not everything. All those numbers are with the power wheel turned wide open. We know that there is some adjustment possible with the 0.166-inch orifice and a lot with the 0.145-inch orifice. We haven’t looked at any of that yet.
I will get to that when I start testing the Ring Loc Kit myself, but for now I am still briefing you on the overall performance at the top end, using numbers provided by AirForce.
.177 Condor
A .177 Condor is a strange beast. It’s like a Chevy Corvette with a 6-cylinder engine. The first Corvette did have only 6 cylinders. The Blue Flame Six was Chevrolet’s stopgap in the 1953 ‘Vett because their first modern V8 (they did make one in 1918-19, but only around 4,000 were built) was still two years away. And that is exactly what most Americans think about the .177 Condor. If you’re going to build the world’s most powerful smallbore air rifle (and from 2004 through the present day, that’s exactly what the Condor is), don’t hamstring it by making it in .177. HOWEVER — there are Condor owners who have .177s they love, and AirForce has to think of them, too. The Ring Loc Kit does work on .177 Condors, with the exception of the 0.232-inch orifice. AirForce cautions people not to use that one because the smaller bore tends to hold the valve open and exhaust all the air or to not open at all — depending on the ambient temperature!
They do have data for the other orifices. Let’s look now.
0.166 orifice
The three pellets they tested were 16 grains, 10 grains and 7 grains. Let’s look at the results.
16-grain pellet — 1170 f.p.s. — 48.65 foot-pounds
10-grain pellet — 1300 f.p.s. — 37.54 foot-pounds
7-grain pellet — 1430 f.p.s. — 31.79 foot-pounds
0.145 orifice
This orifice is probably the best all-around one for the Condor in all calibers. In .177 it is on the large side, but still give some control over velocity through the power wheel. Let’s see what it does wide open.
Unfortunately I don’t have any results for the 0.145 orifice in .177 caliber with the 24-inch Condor barrel. I do have results for the 18-inch CondorSS barrel, and I’ll show them in a moment.
0.123 orifice
The 0.123-inch orifice is made for the .177 caliber. It works best with that caliber and not that well for the .25. We’ll look at it with the 18-inch barrel in a moment.
Unfortunately I don’t have any data for this orifice with the 24-inch barrel, either. However, I did have a long conversation with Ton Jones last Friday. He told me he did more testing of the .177 with the smaller orifices than with any other combination. Like me, Ton wanted to know how low the Condor could go, so he could safely shoot squirrels in his back yard. He wanted a quiet gun as well as lots of shots, and the smaller orifices give you both things.
0.145 orifice with .177-caliber 18-inch barrel and power wide open
16-grain pellet — 1050 f.p.s. — 39.18 foot-pounds
10-grain pellet — 1180 f.p.s. — 30.93 foot-pounds
7-grain pellet — 1280 f.p.s. — 25.47 foot-pounds
You can probably boost the energy by 10 percent for the additional 6 inches of barrel on a 24-inch Condor.
0.123 orifice with .177-caliber 18-inch barrel and power wide open
16-grain pellet — 960 f.p.s. — 32.75 foot-pounds
10-grain pellet — 1070 f.p.s. — 30.93 foot-pounds
7-grain pellet — 1190 f.p.s. — 22.02 foot-pounds
Once more you can probably boost the energy by 10 percent for the additional 6 inches of barrel on a 24-inch Condor.
Temperature affects the results
Ton noticed that the ambient temperature affect his results. In warmer weather the air is less dense and he got faster velocity and fewer shots. On low power in .22 with the 0.145-inch orifice he got 60 shots in warm weather and 75+ when it got cold.
Discussion 2
When AirForce tested the kit they shot and shot until the tank pressure dropped to a certain level. When I test the rifle I will be looking for a velocity spread that doesn’t grow larger than a certain number of f.p.s. — like 20. Those two different tests are going to give two different sets of results. But the relationships will stay the same. The 0.232-inch orifice with give the most power with the fewest number of shots and little to no ability to adjust power. The 0.123-inch orifice will give the most shots at the lowest power and the greatest amount of adjustability. It would be humanly impossible to test all the possible data points that the Ring Loc Kit provides, I believe. They are:
4 calibers,
three barrel lengths,
every pellet of each caliber, and
all the power settings on the power adjustment wheel for each of the above conditions.
That is a set of hundreds of thousands of data points. No one will ever test it all. But you don’t have to! You can set up your Condor to do whatever you want — indoor plinking at 25 feet or groundhogs at 75 yards and anything in-between. Just select the right orifice, caliber, barrel and pellet. The Condor is a systems airgun and with the Ring Loc Kit it covers almost the entire spectrum!
Next I’m going to show how the Ring Loc Kit is installed and then do a little testing of my own. I plan to drill out the 0.070-inch orifice to see how very low I can get the Condor to go, which should be a lot of fun.
Summary
If you like shooting, this kit gives you so much more to like! From squirrels in the trees at 10 yards to jackrabbits way out there, the Condor now does it all.
B.B.,
Is it correct to assume that AirForce was using a 24″ barrel to obtain that .22 caliber data set?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes. The Condor barrel is 24-inches. The CondorSS barrel is 18 inches.
B.B.
You say the .070 orifice is too small to shoot anything.
Before you drill the .070 (1.7mm) orifice, please shoot it..
You might be surprised..
My daily gun for pest control is an old Gunpower Stealth, with a 12 inch barrel in .22.
With a tank date of 12/97. And a gun serial number of 667. , it’s an early one.
It is a UK. Legal sub 12 ftlbs .
And it uses a .070 orifice.
Yes the valve back then is vastly different from the condor valve we have today.
I have put the UK tank on my 12 inch talon SS in .22, and it shoots at 12 ftlbs on the nose at power wheel setting of 6.
The UK Stealth gets over 300 good shots in .22, and if you don’t mind a point of impact shift toward the end, you can squeeze 500 shots from a 3000 psi fill.
The early style valve setup of a sub 12 ft lb Gunpower Stealth
Hi I wonder if you can help-I have an original Gunpower Stealth from the initial 250 batch and the bottle leaks slowly from the centre of the top hat put 100 bar in and put it in a glass of water )and is the early valve as you have pictured here-do you know how to disassemble so I can inspect the valve-with help from a friend we got the valve out of the bottle-23 years of being undisturbed! There is the white nylon allen key/hex which once unscrewed allows the spring to come out and then the internal white nylon portion has the top hat stem coming through i presume into it and it does not unscrew so how do I get them apart-is it simply pull apart-fearing damaging the internal portion! If I cannot disassemble can I safely use silicone spray to lubricate as I am only hand pumping?
If I need to replace the valve there are Condor Talon valves for sale on ebay from China and all appears to be the correct size but the aperture at the centre of the top hat is 5.5mm or larger whereas mine is just under 2mm what will this mean-will I turn my legal under 12ft lb into a firearm with the larger aperture? Appreciate any advice, many thanks Peter
Peter,
First of all, you shouldn’t have disassembled the valve.
How many times did you hit it with a mallet while the tank held pressure? That’s how you fix slow leaks like that.
Assemble the valve after cleaning everything without solvent. Then pressurize the tank and hit the top hat with a rubber mallet.
If that doesn’t work, send the tank to Air Force and they will fix it.
BB
Peter,
I’m making your question tomorrow’s blog.
BB
Hi Tom, many thanks for your reply-I was not aware of the mallet method-I scoured the web for ages trying to find information on the old type valve and drew a blank! When you say I should not have disassembled the valve what have I done that will affect it? Is it the depth of the nylon retaning ‘bolt’ that determines muzzle enegy and I have disrupted this? Or the breaking of the original I assume loctite seal on the bottle? The bottle has never been tested and internally there is no rust just shiny metal inside. I am using a hand pump and take it to around a 100 bar and thats an effort!!
What should I use to clean the valve-I have silicone oil spray but it says this is not a metal to metal lubricant,I have a light mineral oil or Isoproponol?
Many thanks Peter
Peter,
My answer to you will be tomorrow”s blog. It’s too detailed to get into here in the comments.
BB
It seems to me, the valve/orifice combination is the key to adjusting the power of the gun.
The power wheel is just the fine tuning…
Since this ring lock set is (at this point in time) proprietary to the new condor, and new valve system, if you own an older gun you have to change tanks to change power.
No power wheel changes, and all shooting the same pellet gave these results.
My .22 caliber talon SS with a 12 inch barrel shoots
10 foot pounds on CO2 with Crossman 14.3 premier domes
it shoots 12 foot pounds with the UK legal bottle and valve
it shoots 22 foot pounds with a standard flow Air Force bottle and valve
It shoots 32 foot pounds with the condor bottle and valve
With this $50 kit you can do what it used to take 4 different bottle setups to achieve.
Way to go Airforce!
Ian,
For some time there has been an aftermarket valve stem with interchangeable orifices like the Whiscombe transfer ports. Like I told Chris below, John McCaslin has a great market research team. I wish he would get around to changing out that pistol grip, making the rest of the models side cockers, add regulators and bring out a semi-bullpup.
I have been aware of one available for the condor valve for sometime.
But not for the standard valve.
I can tell you finding parts for the older British valve is hard to find on this side of the pond.
In talking to Airforce they have the newer UK valve parts in stock, but not the older parts.
Eventually I will have to upgrade to the newer valve just for convenience.
But will run the older one for as long as it last.
22 years and counting.
I had to upgrade the valve on my Talon SS because it was the real old version and needed new parts.
I like the edge side cocking, and the dry fire feature.
But the side cocking adds an extra machining operation to the production cost.
One on the left, and one on the right, instead of the single slot in the top.
Pistol grip yes, make a standard AR-15 compatable mount.
Regulators, yes please, and adjustable.
Bull pup?
There are conversions out there, but not they just don’t look right.
Think about cutting that large slot under the scope mount and then cutting a slot for the cocking lever. You could have a much stronger frame with the side cockers. Besides, the Texan models do not have an opening on both sides. You could still use it left handed.
The bullpups at present are conversion kits. What if you start with a frame set up for such?
I totally agree, it just involves a lot of retooling, and changing their iconic profile, that is immediately recognizable.
There are blank tubes out there that have the top and bottom web that runs the full length of the tube.
A machinist blank canvas.
Ian,
Indeed. It can be involved as I pointed out below, but still something they should give serious consideration to. Use the Texan series as a model and go from there.
Like this.
I would like to have one of those.
I will shoot you a link when I get a moment at work, or google Airforce condor frame blank
They aren’t very expensive.
Please do.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35-cm-Aluminium-Alloy-Airforce-Airgun-Condor-Talon-SS-DIY-Breech-Model-Frame-/292794667203
This might interest you
And this.
Ian,
Thanks for all three!
B.B.,
Fascinating. A true tinkerer’s dream as well as a data collector’s dream.
I wonder,….. could you have a pellet that shoots at 1/2″ at 50 yards and (another) that does 1 1/2″ at 50 yards,….
then,…… dial the fps (up or down) and get the 1 1/2″ pellet to shoot 1/2″?
Good Day to you and to all,……… Chris
Chris,
LOL! How true! The data geeks have found Nirvana!
Chris,
I have a theory on the velocity and group size. Using the numbers from the 0.145 orifice, if you were to slow the 14 grain pellet down to the 1150 FPS of the 21 grain pellet, it would have a good chance at producing the same group size. That is assuming they are both the same diabolo shape, then each would exit the barrel with the same speed of spin.
I also think that the rate of spin is more critical to accuracy with the bullet shape projectiles.
Thanks for hearing my thought wanderings.
Gerald
Chris,
The short answer is yes.
The longer answer is whether the pellet in question is capable of doing such in the first place. It may require adjusting the top hat in addition to the hammer spring, but usually it can be done.
Also,.. with the higher fps available,…. to what extent have bullet shaped projectiles been explored with the Condor?
With the better BC of bullets, the effective range could be extended significantly, not to mention a much flatter trajectory.
Chris
Chris,
Since before the Condor, there have been those who have been exploring the possibilities with AirForce air rifles. When AirForce doesn’t have the caliber they want, they take a custom barrel and machine it to fit. These guys have been shooting .257, 308, .357, .458, etc. just as AirForce was exploring .25.
John McCaslin is very cautious when it comes to something “new”. I remember him talking about the Texan several years before it actually came out. The Talon was silenced long before the Talon SS. There was also a Talon P at about that same time. The “Condor” has been around as the Talon has. I have even seen guys take multiple frames and cut an piece them together to make them longer. People were building the Escape line long before Ton suggested it to John. Custom frames, valves, stocks, tanks, regulators, etc.
It is true that introducing a new model and setting up a new production line is not only difficult, but very expensive. Then you have to go through all of the tweaking of the line to get it right. He does have a very inexpensive market research team though.
BB,
Have you shown the Edge to John yet?
RR,
I have shown it to him and he has tried the trigger in the dry-fire mode, but he hasn’t seen it shoot yet.
I have asked to borrow an 18-inch .177 barrel to test it and they have said yes.
B.B.
BB,
Cool. That is what I wanted to do next with it. Another thing I wanted to do was see if I could adjust the regulator to around 1500 PSI and test it with and without the plenum with the 18 inch barrel.
Like I have said before, I wanted to see what modifications I could do with it and still be able to return it to original. I can see right now I am going to have to get another one.
BB
So on the next report your going to show how to adjust the top hat distance to the the breech when it’s closed?
And a question. Have you ever had the top hat turn? My AirForce guns all have done that. It seems the locking setscrews get bumped loose from the firing cycle.
How I noticed is the guns started poi-ing different. What I started doing was putting some blue Locktite on the setscrews after I got the top hat adjusted how I like.
My Condor SS is done up with the blue Locktite. Even though I never had any come loose on my other AirForce guns. I still randomly check to make sure the top hat doesn’t spin after I load the pellet and the breech is open.
I figured I would mention. And I’m sure that would be a issue for a person that’s new to AirForce guns. I bet thier guns would be getting returned in 2 days if they had that issue going on. Definitely frustrating if you have it happen. Groups go everywhere.
GF1,
Yes, that is exactly what I’m going to do. But only for this kit.
Yes, top hats do get loose. That’s why they have two screws instead of one.
A close adjustment that I used to do at the factory was put a quarter under the hat and adjust it down snug. Try that.
The factory puts blue Locktite on those threads too, unless they have changed something.
B.B.
BB
Maybe my first Talon SS had the blue Loctite. That was 6 or more years ago and don’t seem to remember it. I know the last 3 other AirForce guns did not have any sealer on the set screw threads.
And yep I remember you talking about using a quarter as a adjusting gage. It does get it close. But not on the money. On the money does matter. I bet even more so with that .177 caliber barrel and this kit your reviewing. That would be the difference I’m guessing between the valve dumping and working.
I thought that’s why the top hats adjusted in the first place. That’s another way to control how hard the striker hits. And it does make the power wheel more usable if you get the top hat set right.
I know you know but others might not. There’s more to just screwing the top hat on and getting results. You know that matters also with your usable shot string as how the top hat is adjusted.
And yes for the others that are going to chime in. A o-ring behind the top hat throws in another variable working as a anti-bounce device. I found if you get the top hat adjusted right you get the power and shot count working out right. The o-ring then is not needed.
GF1,
We used the o-ring under the top hat for the early Gunpower Stealth guns, but when the power adjuster came out with the Talon we didn’t use them anymore.
You’re right about the clearance. As best I can recall, it was 0.080 to 0.082-inches for the Talon SS and Talon — the standard tanks. I think the Hi Flo tank approached 0.1 inches.
But the kit is adjusted completely different. They is a special process that I will show.
B.B.
BB
Ok I’ll be waiting for that report. It sounds interesting.