Beeman P17 is an all-time icon!
This report covers:
- Sorry, Ridge
- The Beeman P17
- Beeman R7/HW30S
- The TX200 Mark III
- All currently sold
- Iconic airguns of the past
- Quality costs
- The point
Recently we have watched reader RidgeRunner labor to make his Gamo Swarm Bone Collector Gen3 breakbarrel air rifle perform. And we (as well as RidgeRunner) are still waiting. He traded a Diana 34 that I detuned to shoot smooth with a light cocking effort to get the Gamo he is now testing. I don’t think he has told us what the cocking effort of that Gamo Swarm is, but I bet it’s more than the 27 pounds of the tuned Diana.
Sorry, Ridge
I’m sorry to say this but what RidgeRunner did was sell his farm in Golconda, India, to get money to travel the world in search of diamonds. I hope you look it up but for those who don’t Golconda was the richest source of diamonds on this planet for a thousand years.
The Beeman P17
If you have read this blog for a while you know that the Beeman P17 pictured above is one of the finest and most iconic air pistols ever made. It’s a Chinese copy of the Beeman P3/Weihrauch HP 40 single stroke pneumatic pistol. I was in Germany in 2006 and spoke with Hans Weihrauch, Jr. who told me that his company repairs P17s under the Weihrauch P3 warranty because they can’t convince the owners that Weihrauch didn’t make the pistol. He said it was better for business to just fix them than to argue.
Beeman P3 looks a lot like the P17 — or is it vise-versa?
This blog has tested P17s, we have fixed them and we have even modified them to increase their power just a little. I purchased a Beeman P3 just to test against the P17 and I found it so similar that I linked that report series to all my previous tests of the P17. I discovered that the P3 was slightly more accurate than the P17 when I tested them and it had a slightly better trigger. Besides that, the two pistols are shockingly similar. That makes the P17 an icon, in my mind.
The P3 retails for $280 at the time this report is published. The P17 retails for $46. Big difference.
Beeman R7/HW30S
Another icon is the Beeman R7 rifle that is based on the Weihrauch HW30S. These are another two airguns that have been reported on numerous times in this blog. The difference between the two models is minor — wood and the marks on the metal. In this instance I would go with the R7 whose stock fits me better, but I covered that in the 6-part series, What a difference a stock makes! I paid extra to have a walnut stock made to turn my HW30S into an R7 — sort of.
If you have read this blog for any length of time you know what shooters say about both the R7 and the HW 30S. You have to make up your own mind of course, but also know that many folks who try these rifles never let them go. And those who do let them go often whine about it!
My HW 30S in its custom walnut stock made by Steve Corcoran. It’s a Beeman R7 wannabe.
The Beeman R7.
The TX200 Mark III
I am a big promoter of the underlever TX200 Mark III rifle. You and I have been through that powerplant many times, tuning, and modifying. Currently it sports a custom tune from Tony Leach in the UK. That tune costs as much as an entire TX200 sold for a couple decades ago. After shooting the tuned rifle for accuracy I thought I would never go back to the factory spec, but I’m starting to have second thoughts about that. The beauty of it is I can do that because the basic rifle was not modified in any way.
The TX200 Mark III from Air Arms is another iconic air rifle.
All currently sold
Every airgun I have mentioned thus far is currently made and sold new. Some, like the HW 30S, have to be purchased from dealers other than Pyramyd AIR, but they are all available right now.
“Yeah, BB, but they are expensive!” With the exception of the P17, yes they are. “Well — the P17 is made in China!” Yes, it is. I’m just telling you things that you know as well as I.
Iconic airguns of the past
I won’t write about these; I’ll just list them.
Sheridan Blue./Silver Streak
S&W 78/79G
Crosman Marks 1 and 2
Diana model 25/27
FWB 124
Talk amongst yourselves.
I go to great lengths to tell you readers what I see when I test airguns. I won’t promote anything beyond telling you what I like.
Avenge-X — accuracy, ease of tuning, caliber swap
Dragonfly Mark 2 — accuracy, ease of pumping
S510XS — trigger, accuracy
Quality costs
Quality USUALLY costs money. The Beeman P17 is an exception. Could an airgun manufacturer make a quality airgun and sell it for less? Well, Air Venturi tried with the Bronco and customers stayed away in droves. On the other hand Crosman tried with the Benjamin Discovery that set the course for that company for years to come. So — sometimes yes and other times no.
The point
What I’m telling you readers is — if the whole world is touting a certain airgun and not just one guy or a couple “influencers”, there is probably a reason. You can look under a lot of rocks to find other things that are just as nice, but don’t bet on it.
You CAN (sometimes) get the HW30s slightly bigger brother, the HW50, at Pyramyd.
Tom,
What is giving you second thoughts regarding the TX200 MkIII?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I just want to shoot the factory tune again.
BB
BB,
You do not have to apologize to me. I am the one who sold “the farm”. Believe it or not, I knew to a point, what I was doing. The trigger right now is one of the best I have ever pulled on a sporter type sproinger.
No, it is not anywhere as nice as the detuned Diana 34, but I sold “the farm” so that I could experience for myself what the latest and greatest Gamo was like. The truth is I could probably make this into a decent sproinger if I was to pitch all these fancy, new doodads over the hill and replace them with “old school” stuff. Is it worth it? Probably not. Will this Gamo be finding a new place to live? More than likely.
Ol’ RR has come full circle now. He started his journey with a Gamo and has learned they are still junk. Well, maybe not junk but there is better out there.
A guy over at the HAM forum says go by the warranty with Gamos. 1 year, junk; 3 years, might be OK; 5 year, probably fine.
OP,
They are probably right. I myself have never and will never recommend that a newbie should buy a Gamo. I did and learned so very much about sproingers from it. I also gave it a lot of time and thought. I normally would not have a Gamo, but as I have said before, I wanted to see where they are now. I have been known to be a bit of a masochist at times. 😉
B.B., I felt the same way about Ridgerunner’s Diana 34. If memory serves, he got a great deal when he bought it, and then B.B. detuned it so it was shooting LIKE a HW30S–smooth and easy. Knowing also Ridgerunner’s own HW30S is promised to his grandson, he needs his own feral soda can shooter. If I were in his shoes, I would have hung onto it. Ah well, Ridgerunner, something to whine about in your old age.
Personally, I’ll be whining about another regrettable transaction Ridgerunner made, but I think B.B. has shamed Ridgerunner enough for one day…. Ridgerunner can confess it to your utter horror when he’s ready.
In other news, I’m working on a new airgun closet to house the PERMANENT residents of Roman Greco’s Institute of Airgun APPRECIATION (hint, hint). ;o)
RG,
You should have no fear of RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns being overrun by feral soda cans. I have quite a few of the “old gals” around here, many of which are ready at a moment’s notice to defend the Homefront from such an onslaught. Something else you may give consideration to is many of the “old gals” here at RRHFWA passed through BB’s hands on their way to here.
As for the HW30S, it may belong to my grandson, but it is located in my airgun closet and will likely be there until I have no further ability to pull it out and pop off a few every now and then.
Many of the “old gals” will be here for a very long time to come. Almost all of them living here now are unique in some way and represent how a certain “obstacle” was overcome on the path to what is. Although the Diana 34 has a quality not seen in many air rifles these days, it is not really that unique in design. A very nice air rifle can be had if one is willing to shuck out the bucks for such as you have learned.
Just so you know, the more PERMANENT residents of RRHFWA are on display in the great room, not hidden away in the closet. 😉
Thank you for clarifying, RidgeRunner. I’m humbled to admit that none of us are really permanent. Some are “more permanent” than others. ;o) You do you, and I reserve the right to pull your chain from time to time.
To me, the 34 is really the epitome of Diana’s spring piston development. It has the right size cylinder, it is not short-stroked. It is powerful enough to hunt with and can be detuned for plinking and target practice. It is not overly large or heavy. With pellets it likes, it can be very precise. The right models have adjustable triggers. I have the Model 36 version, and look forward to discovering its secrets, and I am on the lookout for a Model 38 at a good price, just because I love walnut stocks. Right now, I have more than a few airguns to play with. I only “need” a Winchester 427 to complete the Winchester Diana collection. Perhaps I can work a deal with reader Michael for the “Gaylord” before Honest Bob gets that one, too!
Roamin: You’ll love the M-36. Mine was my first “adult” and high quality air gun. It has gone through three mainsprings in its life and has been rebuilt by UMAREX once. That is the result of thousands of rounds since 1989.
One secret to the M-36 was discovered by me quite by accident. I added a Diana steel muzzle weight to it for scope use. I finally gave up on the scopes because I could never get the things to stay in place on the rail. I gave up scopes and went to a Williams Peep with a Merit Disc. I also kept the muzzle weight but cut a rectangular access hole in it for the original Diana Globe front sight (to use with the Williams/Mert peep.
That muzzle weight was great in taming much of the nystagmus, the weaving motion of the central nervous system when shooting. It damps the polar movement and improves the accuracy of the rifle. It is, to this day, my best shooter with only the Diana 340 Luxus and the Diana underlever with the Hawke scope coming in behind.
Thanks for the tips. How did you know when the mainspring needed to be replaced? And what did you replace it with? I bought my 36 used from an online auction. I anticipate that it will need some TLC (reader Tomek, that’s Tender Loving Care).
Roamin:
The mainspring on my M-36 did two notable things: first, it sounded “crunchy” when I attempted to cock the piece, a sure sign that SOMETHING wasn’t right; secondly, looking in the slot that shows a portion of the mainspring, I could see that the coils had screwed themselves together (it doubled up, so to speak). The latter thing was the most impressive sign that the spring was gone as it, essentially, shortened itself up in itself!
I don’t know if the second symptom happens a lot as I’m not an air gun repair person. I understand the principles but have not the tools to take my air weapons apart, and much more importantly, to put them back together.
The best thing I ever did for my M-36, once RWS Diana betrayed all their local approved service locations and centralized them at UMAREX (I had an outstanding “local’ dealer over on the east side of Cleveland – from Sandusky), was just take the action out of the stock, carefully package it and send it off to UMAREX for a complete service including new spring and seals. It wasn’t that expensive, and the rifle shot better than at any time in its history.
BTW, UMAREX only wants the action and not the stock because they informed me that they have had too many complaints of the stocks being destroyed by the mail or parcel services in transit. I suspect that the breakage would likely be at the pistol grip where the stock is unsupported by steel and at its thinnest profile? Of course, just sending the action meant sculpting a Styrofoam shipping container for the action in a double-corrugated box. Also, finding a couple of heavy and wide rubber bands to go around the trigger “box” to keep the pins from falling out in shipping. I noted that the action, now serviced, came BACK in the styro packaging with the first rubber bands!
I’d send off the action to UMAREX (after calling them in case there are other changes in arranging the servicing) and let them do the total service. The main point being that they have the parts, as needed, to get the job done all at once, AND they are RWS/Diana factory parts or at least recognized repair center parts.
I think that my M-36 shot with far more “authority” when it was returned and put back in service in the basement range. I attribute that to a well-polished barrel (from all the prior rounds, and things that found their “comfortable seating” over the decades since the summer of 1989. All it took was the wearing-in of a few new pieces (like the mainspring) and it was blasting craters in my modeling clay test brick, deep craters at that!
I hope this helps. I can’t recall all these years later what the overhaul cost, I think it was between $100 and $150 but it was and is worth every penny. You can call UMAREX for current prices I think, for that is what I did prior to the sending of the action.
Thanks a lot, LFranke. That’s two bookmarks for you today!
RG,
Pull away my friend.
It does not happen often, but there are some who have benefitted from what I sometimes let leave RRHFWA. Right now I am most definitely going to let a Gamo Bone Collector find a new place to live and will very likely let a Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk do such also. There will very likely be a couple of others joining them in the next year or so.
Roamin Greco,
Small change and you can put RR back in his closet:
Gun Library
shootski
I’m not sure I understand your meaning, shootski, but the irony is that I “borrowed” RidgeRunner’s Diana 50 a couple of years ago. The same one that B.B. reviewed in this blog. It was just like borrowing a library book (except I offered to pay shipping). That’s how we became acquainted, and dare I say, friends.
Roamin Greco,
This LINK: https://maker-marketplace.com/l/163293/walnut-library-with-fireplace-and-gun-cabinets
should ‘(s)plain everything ;^)
I just stopped for lunch…then back to gutting our house…and waiting for TANTO to be delivered TODAY :^)
shootski
shootski
Oooooooh! Me likey!
I can just see myself in that picture, reading my back issues of the “Airgun Letter” while sipping at a nice, hot Greek coffee.
Roamin Greco,
I was thinking of a snifter of Botrys; aged at least fifty years with my coffee for after the portion of
Siropiasta (Baklava).
shootski
Sounds wonderful. I will have to find some next time I go back.
Roamin Greco,
The TANTO was delivered after dinner :^l
It was getting dark fast but i set out the Champion trap and grabbed six Air Arms 10.3 gr. Pellets and six JSB KnockOut 10.3 gr. Slugs (bullets.) I told my wife that i was going to shoot 2 sans TANTO and then 10 shots with the TANTO mounted…she is far better than a Sound Meter or the PAir loudness rating system…usually.
(Aside: the TANTO looks great on the Discovery; not to long and doesn’t throw off the balance.)
Her report: It is quieter but that she needs to listen to more shots to decide if Discovery-TANTO combination is Urban/Suburban yard friendly. She complained about the noisy pellet trap. I didn’t have time to dig out the rubber mulch trap from storage :^[
I shot off-hand at about 30 meters in the failing light; glad the mounted SIG ASP WHISKEY3 scope has such great glass.
The groups of both the 6 AA pellets and the 6 JSB slugs were coverable by my Swiss One Franc coin. It will be fun to get a comparison from a Rest on the DOA Shooting Bench…now if i can just find my rubber mulch trap.
shootski
PS: the JSB KnockOuts make absolutely perfect round holes in the National Target paper at 30 meters.
Awesome. But I would say, if your wife is complaining more about the sound of the projectiles hitting the trap than the sound of the gun, you may just have a winner. In a pinch, a bag of rubber mulch, $7 or so at Lowes and an empty box from a case of paper or similar sized box from the post office (free) makes a great trap.
Recently read in another online publication a piece on the latest version of the HW95, which sports an adjustable cheek piece. Maybe Weihrauch could be convinced to make an alternate version of the HW30 with the old-style stock. FM might even buy one for keeping company to the one already at Casa FM.
FM,
Weihrauch is not likely to go backwards, even if it is to a better design. They, like everyone else, has to move forward with the “latest and greatest”. They do however still make the HW35 in a very similar design to what was original.
If you should want another “old style” HW30, perhaps you should attend more airgun shows. You may find one there but be ready to open that wallet.
I have a Beeman R7 from the Santa Rosa era (HW30S). It came to me with a Beeman branded scope stop and a Williams peep sight. I have replaced the breech seal. It was part of a 3 airgun lot that I won at an online auction.
To RidgeRunner’s point, my newer R7 is nicer in every way, even though it is very similar.
By the way, the HW30S has the Rekord trigger. The HW30 does not.
If I was thin skinned, I would almost feel attacked LOL as I am the one who so called, fleeced poor RR for his 34. Funny thing is, this wasn’t either one of our ideas but another poster here who made the suggestion of trading the Gamo for the 34. Sorry that I cannot recall who it was and it was probably made in jest, but there it is and you know what? It felt like a fair trade to both of us (more guns were involved in the trade but just the same). I liked the Gamo and did my best to represent it accurately. RR and I have spoken several times since I think he would agree that no misrepresentation was made on either side. I found the Gamo to be a powerful, minute of squirrel accuracy, not a tack driver in a good looking like new condition package. I had even referenced it here prior to even the idea of this trade as being a good solid squirrel gun for me, not a target rifle. RR hates the magazines on it, I love the style of them. We are all different and that means something.
As to the Diana, it’s a fine gun and I traded for it to fill a spot in my collection of the 10-12 springer. I rarely shoot it even though I have a great appreciation for it’s personal history being a friend’s gun and Tom having built it and all of the articles here on it. That is very, very cool to me! The gun itself. It’s nice, nothing more, nothing less. I am happy to have it but it’s nowhere close to being one of my favorites to shoot. By chance, right after the trade, I picked up an old Webley Vulcan in a pawn shop for $75 and I can not really tell any difference between it and the 34s shooting characteristics or accuracy. /shrug
What I think is being missed quite a bit here is personal taste, style and fit. One person’s dream gun is one someone else wouldn’t give a second look at and shouldn’t either. Because it does not fit that person’s taste, body type, shooting style etc. BB did not like his HW30 stock and paid handsomely to get a replacement built for it. I love the HW30 stock. Doesn’t make either of us wrong, just different.
I learned to shoot springers with the previous generation of the Gamo that I traded so it fit me and the way that I shoot well. Does that invalidate my opinion of the gun because I shot it well and thought decently of it? I don’t think it should. BB and many others love the TX200, I will never have one because I do not like under lever guns. The Dragonfly made his list as well. I despise mine! Yet we still have guns in common, love my P17, HW30s, Avenger, Diana 25 that made his list. The point is that we are all different and yes there are icons that most everyone will like… but not everyone. One should never underestimate or eliminate the value of fit, style and the apple of your eye. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure but the vice versa applies as well, just not as often.
Happy Shooting!
Bob
Ah, the plot thickens! Good thing the skin is thick, too. All good points!
I consider the TX200 Mark III one of those bucket list guns. After learning that one does not need a spring compressor to work on them (I’m still trying to find my round tuit for building one), one came up for auction with a “missing bolt” I got it for a song and then repaired it myself. It even came with a beautiful walnut stock and a nice Hawke Scope! It is a sublime shooter! If you have never shot an underlever, try to find a way to try out a TX200. As I tell my kids when I serve up the veggies, “try it, you just might like it!”
Congratz Roamin! That is one to be thankful for and proud of! I KNOW the TX is a great gun, I have shot one and it deserves every bit of it’s accolades but it is my posterchild for an example of ‘no gun fits everyone’. I have had a couple of lesser under levers and a couple of nice side levers as well. I just don’t like them. I like shooting them, I do not like loading them. Same for multi pumpers. It’s a me thing, not the gun kind of thing but I know that I am not the only one.
I know people who hate low powered springers, I love them. I couldn’t care a less about a multi thousand dollar 150y pcp with video scopes that cost more than the gun but others dream of them as unicorns.
To each their own my friend!
Yep, I know what you mean about being hard to load the TX. That’s about it’s only drawback, I guess. And side levers seem so awkward to load if one tries to abide my the rule to hang onto the lever while loading. The Diana 50 with its tap loader is an under lever that is easy to load, and I imagine the Diana 46 with its pop-up breech is as easy to load as any breakbarrel.
I share your enthusiasm for low-powered break-barrel springers. I have the following so far: Daisy (Original) 230, Diana 16, Winchester (Diana) 422, 423, 425, and a few more….
RG,
I am so glad that you got your hands on one! I myself have indeed shot them and was not really that impressed with them. They are very accurate, etcetera, etcetera, but they are not everyone’s cup of tea. As Honest Bob points out, they are just not for everyone.
I like the very old and unique. I like to harken back to when the folks that were building these things were still learning what did and did not work. I also enjoy the very unusual. That is my cup of tea.
B.B.,
Icons?
In a pigs eye!
shootski
This caught my eye (from the report by BB):
“Could an airgun manufacturer make a quality airgun and sell it for less? Well, Air Venturi tried with the Bronco and customers stayed away in droves.“
The link takes one to BB’s reports on the Bronco (from 2010). After reading the reports, I can say that I wish I had a Bronco. That appears to be a gun that would suit me very well. So if anyone knows of or sees one for sale, please let me know. I especially am attracted to the trigger that is in the Bronco. I do have a Savage .22 rifle with a similar trigger and like it a lot. Are there any other Airguns available with that trigger? I had said a while back that I thought that inexpensive Airguns that included good triggers should be more common. Is that trigger a reasonable one for manufacturers to consider in the future for putting in a new airgun?
I see Broncos for sale from time to time. It was made by Mendoza, but I don’t know whether their other airguns had similar triggers.
Thanks, keeping an eye out for a Bronco and more information.
Fair warning: I may have to buy one for me, first, then tell you if I find a second one.
Fair enough, nice to know that I am not alone in this endeavor.
Elmer,
Just get an older HW30S/R7. You will like it and it is very likely better than the Bronco.
I agree, and I just might do that. However I would still be curious about the Bronco.
Elmer,
Go for it dude. I know BB has sung its praises, but I for one would like to read someone else’s opinion one way or the other on it.
I read a review by HAM on it. They appeared to like a lot of things about it. Here’s a link to their review:
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/airgun-test-reviews/ham-test-review-air-venturi-bronco-air-rifle/
RG,
If you should happen to get one, I would not mind playing with it for a bit. 😉
10-4.
Your list is pretty good. I own a handful on that list for the same reason. Part of me says you should add an HW35 from the present and a FWB 300S or 601 from the past but you have to stop the list somewhere and you did a pretty good job.
How did the Beeman R1 not make the short list?
Derrick,
Well, BB has tried for many years to tame his and has yet to do such IMMHO.
R1 => R10 => R9 ?
My R9 is very nice.
“…the R7 and the HW 30S.”
BB,
Yes, yes, yes…I’ve owned them both and loved them both…still have the HW 30S.
And what kind of dummy would ever sell their R7?…oh wait…I did…LOL!
Thankfully, I redeemed myself by getting the HW 30S. 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
This is to all you folks out there in LaLaLand.
How many airguns can you shoot at one time? Over the years I have discovered that I am doing good to be able to shoot one. That’s it. There are times I am doing good to manage to do that.
I do not have the luxury of having companies send me airguns and/or pellets to try out. Every once in a while, I will persuade a “new” one to move into RRHFWA. Sometimes they are unique or rare enough to stay. Recently I retired and find I have a little time to tell you folks about that “gal”.
What some of you folks out there do not seem to realize is this is all done on “my dime”. I do not receive any financial or material compensation for doing this. I have been given some “very good” deals by certain people and have done my best to repay such kindness over the years.
Some here may recall that our host has commented at least once that we only posess these airguns, or anything else for that matter, for a limited time. I hope to live for a very long time and enjoy these for a very long time, but sooner or later…
It is, and has always been, one of my goals for others to find the pleasure of with these airguns as much as I have. Over the years, many a nice airgun has found a new home after being at RRHFWA for a bit. Mac, Gunfun1, BB and others have had airguns that stayed here for a bit. Yes, there are a few of these “old gals” that are not going anywhere and will end up in the hands of my grandson, but there are quite a few others that will likely find a new home.
Please enjoy them as I have.
All kidding (and chain pullin) aside,
Well said. Life is too short. THIS life, that is….
RG,
In the next, this is all superfluous.