by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Benjamin’s new Bulldog bullpup big bore air rifle is a .357-caliber 5-shot repeater.
This report covers:
- Tin Starr Bullets
- Tin Starr 101-grain SWC
- Air management
- Tin Starr 108-grain truncated cone
- Air Venturi round ball
- Eun Jin 9mm domed pellets
- Tin Starr 128-grain round nose
- Back to the Tin Starr 101-grain SWC
- Velocity
- More to come
Thanks for being so patient on this report. I last looked at the Benjamin Bulldog .357 big bore air rifle on April 2. April was a very busy month for me and I had to put all trips to the range on hold. But I’m back in the saddle now, and there will be more tests of this Bulldog, as well as a couple accuracy tests of the Hatsan BT-65, which was also left hanging.
Tin Starr Bullets
The good news is that, while I was busy, Johnny Hill of Tin Starr Bullets made me a bunch of new bullets. I like his bullets because they’re pure lead and very soft. That seems to make a difference when it comes to accuracy. Last time, I tried his bullets that were sized 0.356, but today I’ll show you what they do at 0.357 inches. The difference is dramatic!
I also ordered and received some Air Venturi bullets, as well as some 9mm diabolo pellets. Today, I’ll test some of these for you.
If you read part 3, you’ll see that the 145-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet does well in the Bulldog. But I thought the rifle could do better than just well, and I was hoping that the lighter Tin Starr pure lead bullets would do the trick.
The day was perfect with no wind, though wind doesn’t play much with accuracy in big bores at 50 yards. The Bulldog had been emptied of air from the last test when I checked the air release system to measure the trigger-pull. And the rifle woke up immediately with a fresh 3,000 psi fill.
I tested a good number of bullets and pellets in the Bulldog.
Tin Starr 101-grain SWC
The first bullet I tested was the 101-grain semi-wadcutter from Tin Starr. I figured the Bulldog would do best with a lighter bullet, and this was the second-lightest and the shortest bullet I had. The first group was okay, but not outstanding. Five bullets went into 3.081 inches at 50 yards, which isn’t stellar, but 4 of those bullets are in 1.659 inches, and they’re centered in the bull. That caught my attention. I figured if there was time remaining at the end of the session, I would return to this bullet.
Five Tin Starr 101-grain semi-wadcutters are in 3.081 inches, but 4 of them are centered on the bull in 1.659 inches. This is worth a second look.
Air management
If you recall, I tested the Bulldog for velocity back in part 2, when I shot my chronograph. I learned at that time that the first 5 shots are probably the best, so I divided today’s test into a first magazine/second magazine test. I kept track of which magazine was in the fill for each bullet and noted it on the target.
I also tested velocity today. At the end of this test, I’ll show you the chronograph numbers for 10 shots with a selected bullet.
Tin Starr 108-grain truncated cone
After the 101-grain semi-wadcutter came the 108-grain Tin Starr truncated cone bullet. This was the second magazine after a fill. Five bullets went into 3.267 inches at 50 yards. This group is more open than the first one, so I didn’t pursue it any farther on this day.
Five Tin Starr 108-grain truncated cone bullets went into 3.267 inches at 50 yards from the second magazine of air.
Air Venturi round ball
After 2 magazines (10 shots), I refilled the rifle to 3,000 psi and moved on to the next bullet. Next up was the 67-grain Air Venturi round ball. This is a cast bullet — not swaged, so it does have a flat from the sprue cutoff. Because the Bulldog feeds from a magazine, it’s impossible to keep the sprue aligned the same way for every shot, unless you load each ball singly.
I was surprised to see 5 of these balls go into 3.789 inches at 50 yards. That’s not too far off what I can do with my Nelson Lewis combination gun. And round balls are cheap — especially if you cast them yourself. This is a result I wasn’t expecting — finding a plinking bullet for the Bulldog. So, I decided to shoot a second magazine.
Five Air Venturi round balls went into 3.789 inches at 50 yards on the first magazine.
The second magazine of Air Venturi round balls went into 3.597 inches. What’s better, they went to the same point of impact as the first magazine. So, the Air Venturi round ball is a good plinking round for the Bulldog. It has enough power, accuracy and penetration (especially penetration!) to be good on game up to coyote size out to 50 yards.
Five Air Venturi round balls went into 3.597 inches at 50 yards on magazine two.
Now we know there are 10 good shots in the Bulldog — as long as the distance is limited to 50 yards. But airgun hunters consider 50 yards to be the distance at which long shots begin, so this is good news.
Eun Jin 9mm domed pellets
Next up were some Eun Jin 9mm pellets. These are small for the Bulldog’s bore, and we learned in part 3 that this rifle does not like bullets that measure 0.356 inches or less. Five pellets went into a large group that measured 5-7/8 inches between centers, and I stopped right there. No use wasting ammunition or air.
Eun Jin pellets scattered widely.
I do have other 9mm pellets to try, so this isn’t the last time you’ll see them. It’s always possible that one of them may be accurate.
Air Venturi 95-grain hollowpoint
Next, I tried some Air Venturi 95-grain hollowpoint bullets. These are listed as 0.356 inches, which means 9mm, so I didn’t know how well they might do. These were shot on the first magazine after the fill. They all landed high on the target at 50 yards, and 5 grouped in 3.597 inches between centers. I decided to move on.
Five Air Venturi 95-grain hollowpoints went into 3.597 inches at 50 yards on the first magazine.
Tin Starr 128-grain round nose
Next, I tried a Tin Starr 127-grain round nosed flat point bullet; but when it took me 3 shots to get one hole on the target, I stopped. I think this bullet is too long and heavy for the Bulldog.
Back to the Tin Starr 101-grain SWC
Finally, I decided to give the Tin Starr 101 SWC bullets one more try. Boy, am I glad I did! This time, the first 5 bullets went into 1.852 inches at 50 yards. This group got me excited, because I finally found a good bullet for the Bulldog. This was the first magazine after a fresh fill.
Five Tin Starr 101-grain SWC bullets went into this 1.852-inch group at 50 yards on the first magazine.
I reloaded the magazine and shot a second group. This time five 101 SWC bullets made a 2.138-inch group, and the point of impact was almost the same. This is a good bullet for larger game like small whitetails that don’t go over 90 lbs. on the hoof. While .357 is a small caliber to use on game of that size, the fact that this is a semi-wadcutter means the hole will be large. I would certainly limit the distance of engagement to 50 yards and under, but that’s easy to manage in the field.
The second magazine put 5 Tin Starr 101-grain SWC bullets into 2.138 inches at 50 yards.
Velocity
This 101-grain bullet performed the best on this day, so I also chronographed it. I now own a Shooting Chrony Alpha Master that allows me to place the chrony out on the range and operate it safely from the firing line. Here’s what I recorded with the 101-grain SWC with a fresh fill to 3,000 psi:
Shot….Vel. (f.p.s.)
1……..813
2……..840
3……..827
4……..817
5……..806
6……..805
7……..758
8……..782
9……..763
10……746
The average velocity for the first magazine is 821 f.p.s. At that speed, this bullet develops 151.2 foot-pounds at the muzzle. While this is only a little more powerful than a 40-grain bullet from a high speed .22 long rifle cartridge, that big bullet with the sharp leading edges cuts a nice hole in game. So, this bullet is effective beyond what the energy suggests.
More to come
There are many more bullets to test in the Bulldog. Also, I think I’ll try the 101-grain SWC at 100 yards and see what happens. You haven’t seen the last of the Bulldog.
Edith,
In the third sentence under the paragraph heading “Tin Starr Bullets” I believe the 0.365 should be 0.356 .
David H
David,
Fixed. Thanks!
Edith
BB,
Wow. Really. I would just as soon use a .22 LR. I would be expecting clover leaves at that range.
I guess I am just blissfully ignorant of the capabilities of big bore air rifles. Thankfully, I was not interested in this particular air rifle anyway. If I had purchased it, I would be sending it back to PA for a refund.
No, seriously. I have seen five shot groups at 100 yards that were better than that. I have seen 3 inch groups at 300 yards. I have watched a video of a guy shoot a Pepsi can at 614 yards. No, these were not Crosman air rifles. I have to believe that Dennis’ air rifles will do better.
While I agree with you that this rifle reminds me of a construction grider, and is about as powerful as my .38 S&W revolver, it’s the promise of better things to come in regards to PCP air guns that keeps me reading blogs about guns like this. The guy shooting a pepsi can was using a .25 cal ,from a tethered rifle, shooting cast bullets that you could make yourself. Where I live , there is no .22 RF and we cannot order any online. Our local Walmart hasn’t even had plinking grade bulk .22 RF since Feb. 2013.What little is available is expensive crap, and any variety requires a long road trip . The RB groups show promise and if they would work in some other guns ,they would be a cheap subsitute for a lot of shooting , and big bore airguns that would use DYI cast bullets would be wonderful option for me.
Robert,
I too hope for better in the future. I do not expect such from Crosman though. Their business model does not allow for such.
Well, there is a solution. You could buy an Olympic Anschutz rifle like me which is made for the target ammo they are selling now. 🙂 The .22 LR shortage is a continual mystery to me. Where is it all going?
Matt61
Where are they going? People are either hoarding .22 LR, or probably more likely buying them just to resell and making around 100% profit
I heard Tx is cranking up another factory in Pflugerville I believe specifically for .22 RF. Have yet to get confirmation but maybe someone else here’s heard the same and can recall more about it
RR,
Only an AirForce Airguns Texan can produce cloverleaves at 50 yards. Big bore airguns are not that accurate.
B.B.
BB,
There are a few and I do believe we are going to see more in the near future. The airgunning world in the US is just starting to wake up to quality air rifles, much less big bore.
Of course, that brings us back to the question “What good is +500 FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at?”
big bores not accurate?? the xp ranger will outperform any new big bore coming out. the extreme big bores as well.. big bores are accurate a lower end maker like crosman might not be but you cant lump the good big bores out there with it
My experience with Quackenbush 30 and 45 indicates other guns are capable of excellent accuracy on the range and in the field and for a lower price. I cast my own bullets. Not much of a problem these days with availability of less expensive molds from Lee and excellent custom molds from several producers. Cast Bullet Association provides a lot of good info for casting uniform reproducible bullets even though they tend to focus on firearms.
B.B.
When using the soft lead bullets, were they lubed? If not, it might be worth a try to give them a quick shot of alox.
Tom,
We never lube bullets for big bore airguns. They aren’t as accurate. That’s not just me; it’s everybody.
B.B.
I wonder…..
I have noticed some times when switching pellets for accuracy testing. That it some times takes 3-5 rounds before the gun settles back in to its “groove” with a new pellet.
Even with its favorite, I can move to a different pellet, it shoots a large group then settles down, and when I go back to its favorite, it takes a few to tighten back up again.
Is this possible that the big bores do the same? I admit I haven’t shot anything bigger than .25 out of an airgun, but it seems to be the same across the board in .177-.25.
thanks for the review.
Ian
45Bravo,
The bore may season with different bullets, but these are all the same temper, so I wonder.
B.B.
That has been a common occurrence in my experience also. When changing pellets, I usually shoot 5 pellets off to the side of the target.
How can you shoot such an ugly gun
Haha. Yeah, I wondered the same thing, but to each his own.
If you get drunk enough, and it’s dark enough …..
Say….that works for other things too .
No thanks on “The Gorgon” .
twotalon
I think BB had to double bag this gun while shooting it. Then he took a long shower…
I do not own a chrony, but for those of you who do-I’m curious about repeatability of fps scores.
So, when a particular chrony and rifle and pellet demonstrate a particular speed pattern, how likely is it to show that same speed pattern the next time, and the next twenty times? And, how similar will those speed (fps) patterns be on the next 20 tried? I don’t have any reason to doubt that they do, I’ve just always been curious.
Rob
Funny you’d ask that. I’ve been experimenting with that very subject and my results are inexplicable. If we were talking powder burners-never more than a 1 or 2 fps variance for hand loads, slightly more for factory rounds. I recently put 99 .45-70’s over the chrony and 82 of those read EXACTLY the same fps.
Airguns are hit or miss. In my latest attempt I actually bothered to hand sort and weigh my Disco’s favorite pellets, (H&N FTT) and could only achieve “ballpark” consistency. 27 of the 99 rounds matched as far as fps.
Makes no sense, can’t explain why, and of course your mileage may vary.
Sorry, missed a couple of zeros. That should read 10-20 fps for firearms.
My kingdom for an edit button!
Dangerdongle,
Interesting handle,……how did you come up with that one?
On sorting, I head and weight sorted 3 brands of pellets, and ran an unsorted and sorted chrony test. I expected the sorted pellets to have a much tighter fps spread.
They did not. In fact, the 3 types INCREASED 1.5, 2.0 and 11fps spread. Go figure.
I would be suspect of 82 of 99 at the exact same #. (XXX.0~XXX.9) I assume those were hand loads? As for airguns, I would say that a head and weight sort batch is the same as hand loads for powder burners.
As you said,…makes no sense.
Chris
Dangerdongle,
My experience has been that the better the quality of the airgun the more consistent it is with FPS as well as accuracy and everything else. I don’t think there is too much mystery there. Maybe airguns are more sensitive to quality of build than powder burners. I rarely shoot the latter so I don’t really know.
G&G
Looking at this rifle- seems very high tec looking. Something like this seems like it would be too outlandish for powderburning community. Do you think airgunners are more accepting of more “modern” looking equipment?
Once again, we are reminded why form should follow function and not vice/ versa.
Last target (#8) has same caption as target #7. Should read, “2.138 inch group” from “second” magazine.
Thanks for these reports.
Bob,
Thanks. I corrected it.
B.B.
Some rambling thoughts that were provoked by todays article and comments………….
Big Bore airguns aren’t accurate but are they accurate enough? Depending on your intended game (I doubt many consumers buy a big bore for plinking) energy should be as an important factor as accuracy in testing. B.B.’s report today on the Bulldog showed an amazing 1.852″ group with the 101 gr Tin Starr SWC but in Part 2 of his report the 145 gr Benjamin Extreme did 2.337″ at 50 yards. The Benjamin Extreme wins in my book.
Hunting medium sized game with a bow or a big bore airgun should be limited to 50-60 yards as B.B. stated in todays article. Don’t think this is stressed enough. Stalking to get close to your target is a HUGE part of bow and/or big bore hunting.
There are many well done videos on Crosman’s site regarding the Bulldog. Among my favorites are the First Impression video of many folks shooting the Bulldog for the first time (including B.B.) and Part 4 of Ian Hartfords African Safari using the Bulldog exclusively with Benjamin Extreme 145 gr noslers exclusively to take multiple types of game:
https://www.crosman.com/connect/?s=bulldog&source=pepperjam&publisherId=43737&clickId=1270127293
kevin
Kevin : Good point about the woodsmanship. Just went through a hunter safety course with my youngest and I sat thru the entire course with him. The instructors stressed knowing your range and limitations, as well as animal anatomy to place your shots for lethal effect Another thought I had reading todays blog was that the RB loads were maybe going too fast for best accuracy.
Kevin remember.. these are all the same people that said the rogue and np2were great guns and a “game changer”.. 1 was a flop and the other is just ok at best if you get one that functions..
Leadchucker,
An important piece of info to keep in mind: Sometimes, the person testing the gun doesn’t have a production model. They have a pre-production model, on which a huge amount of attention has been slathered so it performs beyond anyone’s wildest dreams. Then, the committees get together and change some things that “make no difference to performance,” and that’s how you end up with great reviews for guns that under-perform.
Edith
B.B., have you tried the Tin Starr 101 at any faster fps? Keith-style bullets generally like to go fast. His 44 mag loads with a 250 grain out of a six inch S&W were about 1200 to 1300 fps. And EXTREMELY accurate.
Mobilehomer,
Welcome to the blog.
No, I haven’t tried these Tin Starr bullets anywhere but in this rifle. Being pure lead, they would not want to go too fast. Maybe 1,000 f.p.s. is tops? And of course they would need to be lubed.
B.B.
The accuracy needs to improve. If this were a firearm I would expect more.
Mike
BB:
This is a fascinating series. Just the thought of companies developing a big-bore airgun that could take down a coyote or small deer is incredible. When I was growing up the largest live target was a squirrel or small bird.
I don’t hunt so a big bore airgun is out of the question. However, if I were going to purchase a big-bore, I’d be more inclined to get the Air force Texan.
Bow hunters and black powder hunters are purists and enjoy the challenge of the hunt. Now they have to step aside to air gunners who cast their own bullets and enjoy the hunt. Truly fascinating.
The accuracy seems to be on par with slugs from a smooth bore shotgun at 50 yards. Reminds me of the results they were getting from the Benjamin Rogue when it was available. Not accurate enough for varmints and too small for deer in many states. I think they should have done more development work before they let this d get out. If I needed a big bore air gun, I’d get an Air Force Texan instead of this, no contest!
At this rate the Biulldog ain’t making many friends
I was gonna compare it to my first handgun purchase, a.25 that was prompttly traded for a guitar after only one clip of ammo fired @20 yds.
BB
I was wondering if you were going to try JSB Kings.
Hawaiian Eye,
Kings are .25 caliber. The Bulldog is a .357.
JSB does make a pellet for .35 caliber that I do intend trying next time.
B.B.
BB
I’m sorry I ment JSB exact .35s
Stan
Stan,
Yes, they will be tested next.
B.B.
That gun looks like it is out of Star Wars. The various targets reminds me of my experience last week trying to discern just what a target means.
Mike, yes, I had a good time at the range, but it is nothing like what you get in the UP. You live in a range year round, and I am jealous. I thought you already had an Arsenal and told me that you cannot get MOA out of it, which is consistent with other reports. I believe that Arsenals are built on converted Saigas like I have, so between us, we will find the limits of this design! Let me know your range report.
Matt61
Actually the Bulldog does look a lot like the carbine carried by astronaut Jack Harper on Oblivion.
Is anyone else having problems with the blog or is it just me?
Yesterday it was half a page that I had to resize and relocate.Today I have logged out in order to dodge duplicating my last comment that had been stored somehow and now I’m stuck with a warning a bout duplicating a comment.Maybe I’ll call it quits until the next blog come around
Thanks, it is very nice here as long as you don’t mind the winter. I don’t, in the winter I just do winter things. We are very fortunate. We have a great range in the area. One pistol and two rifle range areas with a covered firing line. We also have Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays. Of course, there is lots and lots of state owned land that is open to all types of outdoor sports including shooting. I will probably head to the range Thursday evening and shoot a couple rounds of Trap. That range opened for the summer last Sunday. It’s a great day. I just came in from shooting the Walther LGM 2. It’s accuracy is impressive and addictive!
Mike
Mike,
Did you mean the LGV or LGU or is this a gun I am unaware of?
G&G
The LGM 2 is a single stroke pneumatic Olympic class target rifle from the 1990’s. They are no longer used for that but still very, very accurate!
Mike
Mike,
cherish your state owned land on which you can hunt!
When I was living in both Ks & Mo there was always a good place to hunt.Now I’m back in Tx. And you gotta know somebody who doesn’t mind or pay someone else’s taxes for the Year
Matt,
I think the Bulldog looks like the automatic Berrita carbines carried by Starship Troopers.
B.B.
B.B.,
I was completely unaware that big bore airguns are no more accurate than this. It is disappointing but then I don’t guess anyone will be using these for target shooting. I was thinking that big bores would be the ticket for long range target shooting but I guess not.
G&G
Off-topic question :
I have an R9 and 1″ Vortex diamondback 4x12x40 scope. I’d like it shoot hunter field target with it.
What rings would be best ?
The diamondback could be mounted in a 1 piece BKL 260D7, but it would require padding the scope ring bottoms with a shim to allow the scope’s turret saddle to clear the BKLs base.
I hear the BKL 2 piece mounts crush the scope tunes easily due to using 2 narrow rings-halves.
I hear the Beeman/Sportsmatch rings align the scope to the side of the bore.
I hear the Leapers/UTG rings don’t line up flat inside the scope tube hole when put next to each opppther (which is the reason they are so much less expensive).
I hear that the BKL mounts slip from half the posters. I hear that Beeman/Sportsmatch rings slip from the other half.
What’s your advice ?
JohnG10,
You have heard a lot more about scope rings than I have. I have shot Hunter Field Target with UTG Accu Rings and done well.
I would not pay much attention to what you read on the internet. Most of it is excuses for why the shooters are doing as well as they think they should.
I would get a set of rings that put the scope in the best position for my eye and then pay attention to mounting the scope. I favor 2-piece rings over 1-pice for their flexibility.
B.B.
I’m kinda hoping Crosman will realize this thing won’t sell with that kind of accuracy… It’s one thing to spend $100 on a breakbarrel that won’t hit nuthin’ but @ this price I’m sure they’ll just liquidate current stock and start over.
Who’s gonna copy the giradoni first?
G & G, many big bore rifles are more accurate than this Crosman offering.
G&G,
This is why it is a good thing for airgunners to also understand black powder shooters. Round ball BP guns are very similar to big bore airguns. The AirForce Texan is the exception to the rule.
B.B.
B.B.,
I don’t know why but in the picture of you and the Bulldog that rifle looks like it is 4 ft’ long. It just looks huge. But I know it’s a bullpup and the picture is an illusion.
G&G
BB,
Do you think if this rifle has constant muzzle velocity in its 10-shot string, it WILL shoot a tighter group than you did here?
Joe,
At 50 yards I don’t think the velocity has much to do with the accuracy. At 100 yards, it certainly will.
B.B.
I wonder what would happen if this was tried.
Top the gun off to whatever start pressure you think is best. Do a dry fire to knock the valve then do a shot at the target.
Do that 10 times to make a 20 shot group and see if the gun will produce a better group. Or really should only repeat the above 5 times since the group sizes where only 5 shot groups.
And just maybe another thought. Maybe the right projectile has not been found yet that will work in a air gun. What about that dumbbell design that has been talked about before.
The reason I bring up doing a top off and dry fire is for the fact of you should be making a one shot one kill. The second shot is for a back up shot. That way it would give a more true result related to hunting.
Suppose to say 10 shot group not 20. I think that’s called a fat finger. Or in my case a thumb.
BB,
Did you ever contact Dennis Priddy about his PRB ball flask sidelock airguns? I’m not sure what accuracy he is getting, but he shot one on the offhand line at NMLRA eastern nationals, and I doubt he would have bothered unless the accuracy was probably better than this.
In terms of power, a bp pistol is pretty close and I’ve seen better groups from them, though it takes a dedicated shooter to do it!
I just don’t think there is either the power or the ability to obturate in these big bore airguns, yet, to shoot bullets satisfactorily… Either PRBs or sabots need to be given another chance! I think they would be a very attractive alternative to rimfires and/or small (pistol) cartridges if the could achieve 2 or better 1 moa at 50 yards.
BG_Farmer,
I don’t know who Priddy is. I don’t follow muzzleloading competition.
B.B.
He builds airguns (along with regular BP) with standard PRB barrels, not sure if they are Green mountain, rice, or what, but appropriate for patched round ball. I thought I had mentioned him several time, sorry if I am mistaken…
BG_Farmer,
You probably did mention it. I have had a real short term memory problem since my stay in the hospital. It doesn’t seem to be getting better.
B.B.
So the only thing i take away from this is that the only mass produced big bore air rifle worth is the Texan if it could shoot sub MOA using the best ammo for for a given gun, firearm or airgun. Well before i start getting all the same old tired responses about why it simply cant be done and that it would make them so expensive that the public could not afford it. I would just like to remind any of you who have forgot or are not old enough to remember the big 3 auto manufacturers publicly stating the same thing about adding seatbelts, airbags and side impact protection for cars. That i am expected to believe that accurate affordable airguns are somehow simply not possible is just as blatant a lie, but since the result of this lie does not result in injuries & deaths from a product that most people must use nothing can be done about it except if we just refused to buy airguns that do not at least perform on equal footing with firearms. All the time i hear airgun enthusiasts complain that airguns are not taken seriously and seen as children’s toys and toys for people with more money than sense The real problem is that for the most part it is the reality of the airgun industry and if you have any doubts as to the manufacturers real opinions just look at the packaging and how they are marketed. All the best value for the dollar air guns as far as i can tell cost under $300 because any costing over that should be sub MOA accurate and since that excludes like 99.9% of them. Oh i am positive most of you disagree or are in some way offended by what i say. I have heard it said that we are in the golden age of airguns right now and as we have seen one of the major manufacturers is producing an air rifle they know cannot reliably shoot a drink can from a bench rest at 50yds and the price of that gun is $1000 well come on how does something like this make it to production. Quite simply put it is the opinion of the people at Crosman / Benjamin that their customers simply put have more money than sense.
It sounds harsh when you put it like that :)!
The problem is that what sounds harsh is simply the truth and people do not speak it for fear of getting other people mad, or they simply cannot admit it to themselves. Admittedly my airgun experience is very limited in comparison to most other people here, but i do follow new & old products for airguns & the airguns themselves. I live on rural farm 1200 acre & have chickens & guineas & i own & use a Gamo big cat .177 W/grt3 for around the house pest removal, Hatsan 125 sniper .25 & i have the trigger on it around 1lb a little low but that gun is new and i am not experienced enough with it to be effective past 35yds or so [yet]for field hunting and a Savage 93r17 FVSS for long range pest removal & in perfect conditions is capable of sub 1/2 MOA and cost $350 my most expensive gun. My air rifles required skillful adjustment just in order to be usable for their intended tasks & i have had other air rifles over the years that were just never going to be any good my Savage however came new in the box with a perfectly adjusted 2.5lb trigger & 1/2 MOA & i have yet to see an airgun have half the quality without being 6x the cost and still the accuracy is not there. I like air rifles & the ones i have & use are purely a matter of choice of the right tool for the job. The air gun industry was handed a golden ticket with ammo shortages and responding by flooding the market with the SOS in grater quantities and changing the names around in hopes that the newbies will not notice always with short term gains in mind. Bleak, harsh and i just wish it looked like some manufacturer was looking at a long term gain strategy.
mike , there are some very accurate air rifles on the market. yes you do have to pay more for them but if you were to ever “treat” yourself to one of them you would be astonished. I have a beeman rx2 in .22 that will hit ping pong balls EVERYTIME at 50 yards, and that is gas springer gun. also a beeman r10 that is deadly in.177. Basically if you don’t like to play with airguns then you wouldn’t understand the obsession with them. now I also own a .25 marauder that will consistently shoot sub dime size groups at 50 yards. I have tweeked it a tiny bit but I wouldn’t hesitate to kill a squirrel at 70 yards with it. in fact I took a gray squirrel with my r10 at 72 yards. I don’t recommend that people take those kinds of shots, but there are a few people with the skills to do it.
If you are limiting yourself to no more than 300 dollars for an air gun, then SURE you will disappointed. The airguns you mention are marginal at best. That would be about like trying to farm 1200ac with a Ford 8N.
You assume that because i do not own something that i have not shot one and i also know enough to know that Beeman does not make the RX2 or the R10 & i am well aware of the HW90 & the HW85 enough to know that any shot made at 70yds with an R10/HW85 likely doesn’t have enough FPE to be an ethical shot by any calculation given the kill zone and possibility of any wind. Now to commenting on an air rifle you have not used My Gamo & Hatsan are not marginal and they are quite accurate & the Hatsan has a gas spring & an adjustable comb & sound suppression & an all weather stock and it is quite accurate and yes i could have spent the $700 for an overpriced HW or if i wanted to get the re-branded RX2 for the lifetime warranty that doesn’t cover any wear & tear. Honestly did you not read what i wrote, or did you just not understand?
No i do not own a Weihrauch HW90, do you own a Hatsan 125 sniper vortex piston or a Gamo big cat, I enjoy what i have and they work very well or i would have returned them or replaced them. And no i do not want a Beeman /Weihrauch as they are over-priced. Hunting and attempting unethical shots just so you can say you made one! “That would be about like trying to farm 1200ac with a Ford 8N”. Look i have no issue with owning quality i do however not like paying 2x & 3x what something is worth and you overstating the quality & abilities of Weihrauch rifles is no different than Gamo & other companies misleading claims. The simple facts are that an HW85/R10 has a muzzle velocity of 700fps w/14.3gr ammo and i am not going to bother talking down to you in order to mock or belabor the point about the power or accuracy of the gun in the wild with every other factor involved. Not to demonize you, most hunters have tried and made marginal shots and likely miss a few & after a few decades i have also encountered the barely living & maimed results of some of those shots and cured me of wanting to make them. Point is people spending $300 have every right to expect an accurate rifle, but most manufacturers dont feel that way & this idea that just because a rifle costs X$ defines it. I bought my Hatsan from Pyramyd and made my mind up to return as many as i had to in order to get a good one and i only had to return 1, but if it had taken 5 or switching vendors i would still have picked it over the HW90 and the reasons are simple all weather stock, adjustable comb & sound reduction, a feature BTW i had little expectation of and has proven to be very quiet, all features not found on the HW90 but all very useful for field hunting. I stand by everything i have said and your willingness to judge the quality of my rifles based on nothing more than your beliefs i think is a good enough indicator about how much attention should be given to your opinion.
Milk, you assume I don’t know anything about your guns, but ive already owned them and have passed them on. As for the R10 it consistently shoots 985fps with a 8.6 grain H&N field target trophy thanks to a fellow named Jim McCarrey. You are probably not familiar with this gentleman. And I know your not familiar with me, and that’s ok.
Im not bragging about this, but I am pretty well known and pretty knowledgably when it comes to making things go down range. I own 6 national titles and 2 national records and have coached for several years now. Tried out for the US Olympic team twice. I have consistently shot into the low to mid thirties in high power silhouettes.
Accuracy in air guns, is much like speed and handling in cars. You have to pay for it. Since I work in “Quality Assurance” in a Global Company I clearly understand that Accuracy / Quality are not cheap. Try buying a Swarovski Scope for under 300. Its much the same with air rifles.
Don’t think im putting down your air rifles, because im not. They work good for what they were designed to do. As for hunting ethically, if 30 yards is the most your comfortable with then stay there, but if you can hit 8 out of 10 rams at 500 meters offhand, then a 72 yard gray squirrel might not be that difficult with the right equipment.
You can go ahead and blast me again if you want, I wont be answering back anymore. Thats too much wasted time and energy that could be better spent shooting.
Im wondering what it the rate of twist in this barrel? and im assuming it is button rifled instead of cut riflings…? the rate of twist will tell you pretty quickly about what type bullet to look for.
Paul,
I don’t know the twist rate for the Bulldog barrel. I assume it’s 1:16″, which is standard for a .357 Magnum and .38 Special, but I don’t know.
Cut rifling is out of the question for a production gun in this price range. The barrel has to be buttoned or hammer forged. I think Crosman sources this barrel, because they haven’t worked much with this caliber.
Yes it would be nice to know these things, but I think by shooting the gun and looking at the results I am learning them empirically.
B.B.
I think you should slug the bore of that air rifle. It looks like you might have an oversized bore, and need to shoot a different sized bulle