by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The BSA Airsporter Mark IV.
This report covers:
- My mistake
- RWS Hobby pellets
- Eley Wasps
- RWS Superpoints
- Cocking effort
- Trigger pull
Airsporter Mark IV? I thought this was a Mark I, B.B. What gives?
Apparently B.B. Pelletier is the only person in the world who can’t recognize BSA Airsporter variations. I read the serial number and compared it to the table and concluded this was a Mark I in .22 caliber. Their serial number begins with the letter G. Unfortunately, there is also a prefix GI in the list, which looks for all the world like the number one at the beginning of the serial number. Only it isn’t. I know that now, after an embarrassing first report.
Actually, I’m pleased this happened, because it illustrates one of life’s frustrating little problems — namely that BSA didn’t give much thought to assigning their serial numbers, or to the positioning of the prefix letters or to their fonts. Let me show you what I saw.
This is the serial number. It is supposed to read GI 06364. Does that look like the letter I after the G, or the number one? It’s a san serif font (no crossbars on the ends of the letter), plus they spaced it away from the G prefix.
This serial number makes the rifle an Airsporter Mark IV, manufactured from 1969 to 1971. That’s a more mundane rifle than the Mark I I thought it was, though it’s still an Airsporter.
Today we are going to see how well it shoots. Reader Dom thinks I may have lucked out and gotten one that’s very powerful. We’ll know in a few minutes.
RWS Hobby pellets
I decided to begin with RWS Hobby pellets, because they are so light. Also, I have found the skirts of Hobbys to be wider than average pellets, so I thought they might work better in a taploader.
Hobbys averaged 512 f.p.s. The range went from a low of 488 f.p.s. to a high of 524 f.p.s. That’s a span of 36 f.p.s., which is pretty broad. At the average velocity this 11.9-grain pellet produced 6.93 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. I think Hobbys may not be as good in this Airsporter as I envisioned.
Dom suggested trying Wasps in the Airsporter. They are certainly fat pellets. Ten Wasps averaged 535 f.p.s. with a range that went from 515 to 544 f.p.s. That’s a span of 29 f.p.s. At the average velocity this 14.5-grain pellet produced 9.22 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, which I believe was Dom’s prediction.
The last pellet I tried was also a recommendation of Dom — the RWS Superpoint. He likes them for all taploaders because of their thin skirts that swell to seal the air behind the pellet. These 14.5-grain pellets averaged 487 f.p.s. with a range from 469 f.p.s. to a high of 500 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 31 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet produced 7.64 foot-pounds of energy. That tells me that the RWS Hobbys are definitely not the pellet for this rifle, because even Superpoints did better.
The underlever cocks with about 23 pounds of effort if you pull it through the stroke fast. If you go slow it gets sticky and spikes to 10 pounds heavier.
The single-stage trigger breaks at 3 lbs. 15 oz, which is very close to 4 lbs. I has guessed it was 2 lbs. before I measured it. It is extremely crisp! There are two adjustment screws, but I like it so well where it is that I’m going to leave it.
Well, Dom, you can relax. I have an absolutely mundane BSA Airsporter. It’s probably going to play the same in the accuracy test, too. We don’t need the mirror to tell us that this Airsporter is not the fairest in the land.
92 thoughts on “BSA Airsporter Mark IV: Part 2”
It’s still a fine rifle in my opinion, its running, of anything a little light on power, which breaks your run of highly powered old BSA’s, maybe a drop of tune in a tube?, it certainly should make a foot pound or so more than a meteor.
I’m so sorry to have been the harbinger of doom reference this rifle
You have been the voice of reason. That’s a good thing! 🙂
I for one will forgive you for being mistaken concerning the serial number on this air rifle. Anyone who has attempted to research BSA serial numbers will know exactly what difficulties you can encounter with such. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their use of the various prefixes they select for their serial numbers. “I say, what prefix should we use for our serial numbers this month?” “Perhaps QW? I do not seem to recall such previously, eh what?”
Like you said,… we are all learning together. Sure,.. each of has a little forte of knowledge of what we feel somewhat expert on. The air gun world/history is so vast that it would take a lifetime to begin to know it all. Thank goodness for things like the Blue Book and the internet. Hey,…. Blue Book,…. another one for the gift list! 😉
You can’t order a Blue Book right now. They are all sold out.
I just submitted my chapter for the next edition of the Blue Book that should be available soon. It is definitely a gift I recommend!
One lifetime? I think it will take a lot more. Too much documentation is missing, especially of those from the past. This reminds me of a saying, “Documentation is like sex. When it is good, it is very, very good. When it is bad, well, at least it’s better than nothing.”
Cute,…. real cute! 🙂 And,…. true. Like any specialty in life,….. those that devote their entire lives to it are the real experts. The Blue Book is an amazing piece of work thanks to the many people who have contributed from their various knowledge bases. More so,…. it has an absolute ton of pictures. In fact,… as far as space taken up on the pages,… I would venture to say that pictures take up at least 40% – 50%. The 11th edition is 8 1/2″ x 11″ and 1 1/2″ thick and 736 pages. $30.00 per the price stated on the book itself.
There is nowhere to reply you made to me about the .20 caliber pellets.
I will reply at that bottom so we don’t keep jumping around.
GF1 and Siraniko,
This air rifle is not running at full power right now. It has actually been tuned down at the factory for optimum accuracy for the JSBs. It should have no problem dealing with these “light” cast bullets.
My main issue is filling it with air. Hopefully by the end of next month that will no longer be an issue.
My 36 pickup was restored about 10 years ago. Some work was good some not so good. The original flathead v8 and transmission was done professionally and seem to have been rebuilt very well. The rest of the work was hit and miss. The are a few upgrades that make it more of a driver, hydraulic brakes, alternator, electronic ignition and 12 volt system. I think I almost have it as a reliable driver. It has kept me busy for a couple of months.
Very nice! I had to look that one up (’36 Ford) to be sure what it was you were talking about. I wish you the best with it. It sounds as if you got it most of the way done. It would be really something to drive a piece of history like that.
Well BB, here you go again testing a classic! You know that I am utterly unable to stay away from these, LOL.
That’s a very interesting shot of the serial number! I too would have read it as “G1” instead of “GI…!”
Somehow in all the years I have bumbled about with old airguns, I have never hooked up with a single BSA gun for very long–my loss. But I am a big fan of the Airsporter’s no. 1 rival in the UK marketplace back in the day, Webley’s Mk 3 underlever. I will very much look forward to further installments on the Airsporter!
I lost out on a Mark III Webley on Gun Broker a couple weeks ago. The bid went too high for me. It was a nice gun, but I have owned them in the past so the mistique isn’t there.
Did they make the Airsporter in other calibers other than .22?
.177 and .22 and .25 (some variations).
No .20 caliber? I thought that was a popular caliber back then. And the available .25 caliber version kind of surprises me.
Seriously? You didn’t know that Dr. Beeman popularized the .20 caliber in the 1980s? He was a one-man band back then. Sheridan was the only .20 when the4 Airsporter was popular.
I knew about the .20 caliber Sheridan’s back in the early 70’s when I was a kid. I almost got one but didn’t because of the caliber size. There never seemed to be many of those pellets on the shelf for sale back then like the .177 and .22 caliber pellets. So that’s how I ended up with my .22 caliber Benjamin 392 back then.
And around 1977 my mind shifted to cars instead of hunting and guns for a while. Didn’t keep up with guns actually in the early 80’s but started hunting again with my wife’s brother in the late 80’s. We hunted together as kids growing up. So he actually got me back going in hunting and air guns again.
So no I actually thought the .20 caliber was available before the 70’s. But did know Dr. Beeman talked about .20 caliber from things I read and heard about that caliber. I just thought he was trying to push that particular caliber and it was around forever like the other calibers.
Nope. Dr. Beeman was fascinated by the .20 caliber and he was its main proponent. He tried to get the European manufacturers to make their guns in that caliber, but they resisted.
The .20 is dwindling today, although I suspect it will never go away.
Good info. I never realized it was that way about the .20 caliber pellets.
It probably is a well balanced pellet for how weight and size works out. I have not tryed .20 caliber. Maybe that should be put on my list of wants and to do’s.
I would not wait too long. Just about the only .20 sproingers I know of are the few Weihrauch models that were also Beemans. You will probably want to stock in a bunch of pellets also. You do not want to end up like all of the Remington 5mm Magnum owners.
That’s what’s in the back of my mind when I think about .20 caliber. Will I be able to get pellets.
Here’s what Pyramyd Air has in .20 caliber. Not much selection. But at least there is a nice choice of types of pellets and the popular brands also. Here look.
I still may look into doing something. And your forgetting also that AirForce offers .20 caliber barrels. That would probably be the route I would go. That way I could change to a different caliber barrel if .20 caliber went away.
And check out the Benjamin .20 caliber pellets in that PA link I just gave. They resemble the old Sheridan cylindrical pellets I remember as a kid seeing them on the shelves at the store.
That mold seem looks awful. Nice,… but awful. I guess that those are not tumbled or whatever it is they do. I have to look really hard to see the seams on most everything I have.
I had looked at the .20 offering at PA. I had forgotten about the .20 barrels from AirForce. Since you already have a Talon SS, it would not be much for you to try out. By the way, you can get new barrels from Weihrauch.
Now if you really liked the .20 and was afraid your supply might dry up, you could give casting a try.
I had thought about casting and swedging/swaging or whatever it’s called in the past.
Might experiment with it in the future.
Now that I have this .357, I can see me trying my hand at it. Maybe I can talk this guy into making me a kit for it.
If you try it I would like to know what you think.
I have already tried these in my HM1000X.
I first soaked them in mineral spirits to remove the lube ring. At 50 yards the accuracy was not near as good as the JSBs, but the rifle is at present tuned for the JSBs. I shot a 5 shot group that was under 2 inches. That was much better than my experiences with the Rogue and the Bulldog.
Once I have a chronograph and a compressor so that I can play with tuning this rifle, I think I may be able to squeeze a little bit better performance out of these. I will certainly keep you abreast of such.
I think you are going to need a little bit more power to push those fast enough to see the accuracy you want.
PS No Reply button under your name had to post here.
Ain’t that bullet a little heavy. The JSB’s are only 81 grain.
Going to bet you won’t get the performance out of the cast bullet like you will out of the JSB’s.
GF1 and Siraniko,
This air rifle is not running at full power right now. It has actually been tuned down at the factory for optimum accuracy for the JSBs. It should have no problem dealing with these “light” cast bullets.
My main issue is filling it with air. Hopefully by the end of next month that will no longer be an issue.
A little different situation going on with that bullet verses the pellet.
Well at least you know what the pellets do. Next when you tune for the cast bullets we will see what happens. Then we can compare. It will be interesting to see.
BB, my head is spinning after that 13 part report on rifle twist rates. Is the 1: 16 twist rate also used in .22 lr ? If so I am in trouble as the .22 lr sold in India has way higher than that, I think 1:8, the same used in 5.56 NATO caliber Indian army rifles.
I remember that report of Diana 25, because I was searching the net about accuracy of smooth bore air rifles. The experience is difference because my air rifle is copy of Diana 23. At 5-6 m, you can take apart a matchstick head, but after that accuracy falls rapidly. In that report also the Diana lost its accuracy at 25 m. I was wondering if these bores were rifled would they have held their accuracy? I also found that increasing the velocity, the pellet remained steady for a little longer distance. And if rifling is so much necessary for stability, why the diabolo skirt? Does the comparatively low velocities of air rifles, the high drag of pellets and optimal rifling twist all compliment each other to provide the absolute stability and accuracy?
The answer is:
read this blog. You have asked several fundamental questions that take many sections of reports to answer.
And the twist rate for .22 long rifle is universal around the world at 1:16. There are a few deviations, but they are notable because they are so rare.
Have you thought about also what can happen when a barrel length is changed.
There is a lot to learn and too much at once can seem overwhelming. Everyone has their own style of learning and tolerance for how much information can be absorbed at one time (i.e. “head spinning”). I have only been at this a couple of years and still have much to learn.
I sense that you are trying your best to figure out how to get the best accuracy ( with the rifles and pellets ) that you have access to. You mentioned India made rifles. It could be that they have not reached the same level of manufacturing quality that ones abroad have ( from the previously mentioned quality aspects that you asked about).
The other thing is the pellets that you are using. Are they India made?,.. or are they name brands that can be bought else where in the world? You had mentioned before that they look like something that came from the 1960’s. Siraniko mentioned that there is pellets being “homemade” in the Philippines,… so I figured that maybe you had some of that going on as well. You know from reading here how important good pellets are and that even the same 2 rifles will sometimes not like the same pellet.
So,…… it could just be a combination of things. (poor rifles, poor pellets). Early on, I tried to understand it all,… all at once. For me,… that did not work. As time went on I focused on things that made a difference to (me) and things that (I could change) and make me and/or my gun more accurate. Twist rate is fairly low on that list as it is something that I,… can not change.
Hang in there!,…….. 😉 Chris
On the .20 caliber Benjamin cylindrical pellets.
I see those lines on my JSB 10.34 grain pellets. Even on the JSB .15.89’s. also seen them on the JSB 34.95 grain pellets.
Remember the head of the pellet contacts the rifling in a very small area around the head. The skirt does engage the rifling harder. That line probably doesn’t affect the way the pellet fly’s at all. If anything it my slow the pellet down and stabilize it more in flight.
Perhaps you are right. I just had an idea,…. ( everyone say’s,….. ooh no! ),…… I was thinking that some of those stick type clips like the 760 uses would be ideal on something like the Maximus. You have to manually advance them,….. but hey,… you would have 5 or so pellets ready to go, in place and already loaded. As long as the bolt would pass through the clip. The clip would stay in place while shooting. That would totally work and something that I would totally do.
I had a Daisy 953 I believe it was that was like that also with the flat style clip.
I like that idea for the Maximus. As long as the bolt would push the pellet true to load it in the barrel. I know with the 953 I had to pay attention where to stop pushing the clip to get it aligned right. Maybe not a issue target shooting or plinking. But would slow you up in a pesting or hunting situation.
I seriously can load another shot pretty quick with a single shot gun. Even out in the feild. I have a Crosman pellet pouch that attaches to your belt. Works pretty well. Here one of these.
I just took a stroll through the mag. and clip section on the P.A. site,…. 10 pages. I did not see any of those type of clips in .22. (Open) style circular clips would work as well as long as they cleared the scope. There is a bunch of those.
In fact, if the loading port was say 3/4″ front to rear,…. then a 1/4″-3/8″ thick clip would be ideal. It would allow you visually see the bolt go in the rear of the pellet, apply additional pressure to pin the clip and drive the bolt home.
I may be getting a Maximus yet.
I can’t remember where I seen it but someone makes a rotary style clip for the Discovery.
From what I have seen so far with the Maximus I have. What will bolt onto the outside of a Discovery will do like wise to a Maximus.
So that said. You could probably have a Maximus with a clip if you search the internet for Discovery add ons.
Yup,…. found 2.
BNM looks to making entire breech’s that use M-rod mags. Looks like you can get the Weaver rail instead of the 11mm. Cool,…. thanks.
Thats exactly the ones I was talking about.
Looking further at the Discovery and the Maximus,….. I see that the bolt sits down into the “loading trough”,…. so the stick mag. idea would (not) work for sure. If just a circular open clip was used,.. the outer rim would have to be quite thin. But,… at the same time,… that would act a bit as of a locator.
Just wanted to say that the stick mag. idea was out. Heck,… it was out anyways as there is none in .22. Looking like BNM would be the way to go,… or Crosman could just raise the bolt (or) lower the trough/opening and install a M-rod type mag..
The latter would seem best and most cost effective. I may wait this one out and see if Crosman takes a hint.
Remember all the what ifs everybody was comming up with when BB reported on the Maximus.
Ain’t it funny how we keep trying to turn the Maximus into a Marauder. Well I can say that I went a “different” way with my Maximus. 😉
I bought some parts and barrels from Crosman awhile back. I tried to order a Maximus barrel as B.B. said he was told by Crosman they were improved and more accurate than their previous barrels. They would mot sell one to me without the part number. They have not put the manual or parts list on there site yet. Did you get a parts list with your Maximus? I would like the part number if you have it.
Is the Maximus barrel the same OD as the 13xx and 22xx? I would like to try one on a few different guns including the Texan Fireball.
It sound like you got a very good barrel on your new Maximus.
No part list with the gun and Crosman is usually slow to add a new gun to their parts diagram on their website. So no good news there.
But on the other hand. When it does become available with a part number it is same diameter and will go on anything if the correct Crosman steel breech’s go on including a Discovery if you want to put a Maximus barrel on a Discovery.
Here’s the steel breech’s I’m talking about. Just make sure you get the correct caliber breech to match the caliber barrel you use. They did make the two bolt probes different for the .177 caliber barrel and the .22 caliber barrel.
This one is if you use a .177 caliber barrel.
This is for a .22 caliber barrel.
Those breeches will fit on any guns they list in either caliber.
If you have a .22 Discovery or a .22 Maximus barrel it will slip right in the breech with the correct bolt probe in the breech that match’s the barrel. Likewise if you have a .177 Discovery. The .177 Maximus barrel will slip right in the breech with the correct bolt probe.
But if you want to change barrel caliber on the Maximus or Discovery you have to have the correct breech because of the bolt probe. But the breech from the Discovery or Maximus will fit either gun in either caliber.
So the trick is having the right breech and caliber for the barrel you use on the particular gun your putting it on. And of course the next trick is getting the Maximus barrel.
Hope I didn’t make that confusing.
Thanks for the quick reply. Not confusing at all. I have a few .177 and .22 steel breaches so no problem there.
I also want to try it on the Fireball multipump. I think I can make a non destructive swap with the Maximus barrel.
What is the fireball multi-pump?
I think you have the Blue Book of Air Guns. The one I have is called The “Apache – Fire Ball – Texan” see under Apache. Mine was missing a few parts and the valve and pump seals leaked. I have it working but the accuracy is horrible with #4 buckshot (.24 cal) they are not made to exact specs so they are all different size shape and weight. I tried airsoft balls but they needed to have a patch to fit the barrel. I have the .177 bb smooth barrel insert but it is messed up pretty bad. I heard somewhere that the Crosman barrels are a direct fit for diameter. I have a Discovery barrel in .22 cal so I could try that, just haven’t had time.
At some point I plan on taking it apart again and take some exploded view pictures. They should help anyone who in the future wants to work on one. It took me a long time and building a few new tools to get it apart and back together again. The valve is still needs a little work to improve on the seals. Once in a while they don’t seat on the first pump or two.
Nope don’t have a blue book. But ok now I know what your trying to accomplish.
Definitely give a update on what you end up doing. Sounds interesting.
I was curious too. Here is what I found.
Here is a picture of one: http://airgunsmith.com/review_airguns/?reviews_pistols=apache-fireball1948-1949-multi-pump-6-shot-250-caliber-250-caliber
The Apache Fireball Pistol is a fairly rare airgun, especially in working condition. They were manufactured between 1948 and 1949. They are a .25 caliber multi-pump pneumatic pistol that shoots round balls. We’ve included a sample of 6mm airsoft balls with this gun to get you started.
These were dual caliber, so if you had the insert you could also shot BBs. There is no insert included with this one. It’s also missing the repeater mechanism.
This one has a polished zinc finsish receiver, and the barrel and shot tube retain about 80% of the original finish.
It’s been cleaned, lubed, and resealed in our shop. Velocity was tested at around 379 fps.
Mfg 1948 – 49
First off do not panic. Do not automatically assume the twist rate until you can confirm it. If in fact it is using a faster twist rate than recommended for air rifles then you have another factor to consider, which is the actual bore diameter. Think of it, the NATO designation of the round is 5.56mm which actually comes out as 5.70 mm while air rifles usually use a 5.52mm nominal bore. Pellets would be rattling down the barrel even as you load them. So you have to confirm both the twist rate and bore diameter. To confirm bore diameter would require a tight fitting brass brush and a cleaning rod that will allow the brush to turn as it engages the rifling. A piece of tape with a tab to mark the beginning and a ruler should allow you to make the determination of the actual twist rate.
At the velocities most pellets are driven the diabolo pattern aids in stability along with the rifling. To eliminate the diabolo would require bullets to be driven at higher velocities with faster twist rates. Heavy pellets require higher velocities to achieve accuracy. What weight and make of pellets are you using by the way? Our Philippine local pellets in .22 weigh in at around 18-19 grains. We don’t have any makers of 15 grain pellets to my knowledge. Our .177 pellets weigh in at 9-10 grains we don’t have anything lighter made locally.
PS We have a similar problem with some makers using barrels for .22 LR which are also 5.70 mm.
Thank you for that insight. That is some rare information that I bet a lot of people are not aware of ( firearm barrels used for airguns ).
That’s more common than you think. Many airgun manufacturers don’t know that a firearm in .22 has a different internal diameter than an airgun. They hear .22 and they think it’s all the same. A 1:200 mm twist is very fast! I’s 1:7.9 inches. So heavier pellets can be used. But the internal bore is 0.223 “where an airgun bore is 0.2165″-0.218”, and that destroys the accuracy.
Thanks for the link on the fireball multi-pump pistol. There was no where to reply up there so replied here.
No problem I was curious too and did not have a Blue Book either. I did have the internet though.
What did we ever do in the old days without the internet. 🙂
We used to use the library for research. Unfortunately the information we would get would be about 5 years outdated. Magazines and Journals would be a 1 or 2 years behind.
The way I did it was made friends with a few people in their senior years of life that did the things I was interested in.
You won’t believe what you can learn from a person that’s been there and done that if you know what I mean.
I do. You don’t have enough time to make the same mistakes they did. That’s the fun part of this blog, the open exchange of data and ideas.
I do not have an Apache pistol but from what I know all the Apache pistols and rifles were made to shoot #4 buckshot. They were called 0.25 caliber but were made to shoot buckshot at .24 cal. Some are rifled and some are smooth. Some came with a barrel insert that screwed into the end of the .24 caliber barrel that was .175 smooth bore to shoot BBs. In the literature they were advertised as .25 caliber they are not.
The air soft 6mm BBs are 0.236 inches most are smaller, I tried them and needed to build an insert for the threaded end on my barrel so I could use a patch. They were that loose.
The #4 buckshot I have ranges from 6.10 to 2.20 mm (0.240 to 0.244 inches) and they are not round.
I can not remember if I tried .25 cal pellets in the Apache or not. Mine has a rifled barrel. I think I did and they were too big. Maybe they would work in the smooth bore?? I will check on the .25 pellets and get back with the results.
I would like to know what they used in the velocity test. Looks like they used air soft BBs.
Once I get back into the Apache Fireball rifle this winter I will provide more information. I learned a lot the first time though and think I can do better going though it again with better fitting seals. I was getting about 580 fps with 20.4 gr #4 buckshot, 15.2 foot pounds. Accuracy was poor but the buckshot varies a lot in weight and diameter.
Will provide more later. The Apache rifles looked a lot like the early Crosman 100 and 101 models made at the same time late 1940’s.
So it is a rifle. I was thinking a Discovery barrel wouldn’t look right on a pistol.
Either way sounds like a interesting gun.
I am surprised to hear you say that. I can easily see you with a Maximus barrel on a 13XX Crosman platform in the near future. LOL
Oh I can see a Maximus barrel on a 1322 no problem. But with a 1399 stock or one of the RAI adapters to attach a AR butt stock.
What I meant wouldn’t look right on a pistol is. A long Discovery barrel on the fireball pistol with factory pistol grips an no butt stock. If some kind of butt stock could be added to the fireball pistol like the 1399 stock then yes I could see the long Discovery barrel on it.
Totally agree just could not help pulling your chain. I have a 1377 scoped with a1399 stock and an 18 inch barrel. It does clean kills on squirrels up to 25 yards.
I have to admit I have a 2240 with a.24 inch barrel to make it back yard friendly. It is very quiet but ugly. My plan was to shorten the barrel till the noise was just tolerable. I don’t think I can figure it out without a decibel meter; bad ears and no short term memory. The long barrel did add velocity and the long sight plane works well with open sights. Ergonomic it is not.
I got that .177 Disco/1377 conversion I did. It is a very accurate gun at 50 yards and in. And quiet.
I bet a Maximus barrel would work nice. I got another 1377 just sitting around. Might try a .22 caliber Maximus barrel on it. Well as we know whenever Crosman finally releases part numbers.
That should be making 9.5-10.5 ft lbs. it is clearly unwell and in need of a service. Which would let you experience the joy of trying to get that streamlined, rounded, back block off.
Did you ever end up selling the BSA Airsporter Stutzen?
Perhaps it wasn’t accurate enough for your tastes, but it sure was pretty.
I included it in a trade for the Don Robinson Airsporter.
With so many good products out there, it is hard to get excited about something that is not first-rate, unless you are a collector. There, anything goes. I just saw an original WWII German paratrooper helmet selling for $10,000. If that’s out of your range you can try the original B-17 instrument panel for a mere $5,000.
B.B., I sold on those 5 yard standing targets. Can you point me to the course of fire for the world championships that use them? I might try scoring myself against the best. And if I’m using pellets instead of bbs, there is a saying that there is no such thing as a fair fight.
In the spirit of Thanksgiving, I can report two dazzling new successes. My tomahawk throwing was not going too well. I couldn’t get it to stick and the repeated impacts kept working the head loose from the shaft. So, I regrouped. I bought an all steel tomahawk with a double head to increase my chances and found a target with softer wood. Now, I’m sinking those throws like Kirk Douglas in The Vikings!
I’ve also found new perfection in case trimming. Those thousandths of an inch different from the trim-to length were bugging me. Then, I realized that rather than trimming slightly short I could trim slightly long. Then I could use the hand trimmer to finish the job to absolute perfection. But this raises another question. B.B., as you shoot a gun, the chamber will wear down on the barrel side. Isn’t that what throat erosion is? If so, a case at a uniform length will start peeping over the edge and become too long. Of the two options, it sounds like a short case is better than a long one which can cause overpressures. So, to keep pace with throat erosion, is it actually better to trim slightly short?
They are used in the Daisy BB Gun Championships.
Thanks. It looks like the B.B. gun championships have all the different shooting positions. Too bad the age limit is 15 and that doesn’t include emotional age. Incidentally, there is no conflict between my new cast trimmer and the Lee hand trimmer. I see from the Lee website that the hand trimmer is not perfect as I had assumed but within +- .010 of the trim-to length. So my new trimmer is better on all counts. The Arsenal of Democracy is going full-steam ahead.
I don’t think the .20 is dead yet. The Open PCP class at the Tennessee state field target championships was won by a shooter with a .20 cal USFT with a 8×32 Bushnell scope and JSB 13.43? pellets. I think he only missed one target under 30 yards. It definitely bucks the wind well.
Thanks for that info. I might just try something in .20 caliber after Christmas is over.
My problem will be it turns out to be real accurate and I’ll have to buy a bunch of pellets and sell my other caliber airgun and get more in .20 caliber.
Not that it would be a bad thing though. 🙂
BB, will read the blog with earnest.
Gunfun1, that will be too much for me , but to my very limited knowledge, I think it will increase the power with length ( up to a limit) in PCP and no idea about springers.
Chris, I already did all I could man , from applying moly at metal to metal contacts, installed Diana piston seal, shimmed the breech seal , lubricated the trigger as per BBs advice and put black tar on spring. Only thing remains is to put Teflon buttons on piston, but I think that can’t be done here. And trying to improve my shooting also. These were the first questions I asked.
These are for knowledge only. Indian guns are reasonably accurate and jsb exacts 8.44 grains are my pellets of choice. There is no one around for at least a 1000 miles to answer my queries, so I ask them here.
Siraniko, not the air rifle barrel, but the .22 long rifle barrel, the only gun I can move to step into the world of firearms. The twist rate of the lr is 1 :200 mm, the rifling is forged out from the same machine as of service rifles. Pellets locally made are of extremes 7.4- 9.9 grains, nothing in between.
And thanks for the replies guys.
Sorry, I had forgotten you were in India that limits to .177 for airguns. From what I scanned from the internet there seems to be no problem unless you are going for farther distances. The articles you are going to look for are the ones using drop-in .22LR conversion kits in M16/M4 for training. They do mention that heavier .22LR rounds were preferred for accuracy.
I have shot .22 rimfire rifles since I was a kid. Did a equal share of plinking, pesting and hunting with them.
Back then there was mostly shorts, longs and long rifle bullets with pretty much only a 40 grain bullet. There was round nose and hollow point in the long rifle round.
Back then I found the mid size cartridge (the longs) to be the most accurate back then. They still used the same weight bullet as the long rifle round and the short round. The shorts were to slow. The long rifles were to fast.
No there was some other .22 long rifle rounds back then that CCI came out with that was called stingers. They were hollow points with a small metal star pressed into the hollow point. They were accurate and did some damage when they hit. I used them on ground hogs/woodchucks back then. And you better only use them on something you weren’t going to eat. It tore the meat up inside when the bullet fragmented.
And to what I was thinking about when you said a heavier bullet in .22 rimfire. I still shoot .22 rimfire and I have several different .22 long rifle rounds I use. They range from 710 fps with a 40 grain bullet to 1080 fps with a 40 grain. Then I got a 1575 fps 38 grain round. But the absalutly most accurate I have right now is the Aquila 950 fps 60 grain sniper round. It shoots flat and retains energy good.
So as with the .22 rimfire rounds I mentioned I also believe that the right velocity for a particular airgun and pellet weight is important.
One air gun might like a 14 grain pellet as to where another gun that’s the the same might like a little heavier or lighter pellet.
But I do believe weight and velocity plays a part in acurracy.
Your statement make me wonder now of my thought to limit my power range to 20 fpe in .22 especially with the fact that our local pellets (sometimes mandated to be used during a competition to level the field) weigh in the heavy side of 18 to 19 grains. Add to that the posted experience of most of the experimenters stating that using locally sourced brass barrels that the recommended velocity would be around 850 fps. I will definitely have to start somewhere though. Given that air is cheaper than lead I may have to sacrifice and opt to increase the velocity to achieve the accuracy. Lot of thought needs to be given to properly design the procedure to find the best velocity. I see a long summer ahead of me.
And that is good info to think about that you just mentioned.
And you know how it goes. You have to go out and test it on paper and see what happens. But hey look on the bright side. You will be having fun shooting. 🙂
Oh and forgot I also have a few different brands of the standard velocity 1200 fps 40 grain rounds.
The 950 fps 60 grain bullets have been the most accurate along with a flat trajectory and retained energy.
I had forgotten that you had mentioned JSB’s in the past and said that they were about 30$ per tin. That is a big start knowing that you are using good pellets. You have read a lot and learned a lot already. I can tell by the detailed questions that you ask. Every rifle will have it’s limits,… even the best ones. My earnest best wishes for you as you continue your air gun journey. Chris
Yep that’s pretty well it. So what does velocity do to accuracy. Sometimes it can help to have more velocity sometimes it can hurt. That’s what multi-pump air guns are good for.
I just tested some different length barrels and different caliber barrels on a Crosman 1377 with a steel breech. Plus could use different amounts of pumps to try different velocities with each barrel.
That’s one of the reasons I think the .22 caliber Maximus I just got and put a 1200 psi regulated bottle tethered to it is so accurate. I believe I hit the right velocity for the JSB 15.89 grain pellet I’m using for that particular gun. Plus the regulated is feeding the gun with air consistently.
Suppose to say. Plus the regulated (bottle) is feeding the gun with air consistently.
When you do take your Apache apart and take pix, think about a guest blog. That will ensure your information’s longevity.
Thanks for the confidence I will give it a shot. The gun has some unique features.
What you do in a day will likely take me a couple of months and it may not be very good.
Just the fact that you do it is all anyone wants. This blog is becoming the library of airgun knowledge for the world because of things like this.
Glad to hear your eye is doing much better. I have mostly completed a two part report on the Apache – Fire-Ball – Texan air rifle I have. I know you are very busy. I have sent in two requests to firstname.lastname@example.org with the subject “I want to be a guest blogger”. I am not sure they are getting through as I have not had any response. Again I know you are busy and I don’t want to push.
I did not know any other way to get in touch. You can delete this comment; thanks. My email is email@example.com