by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Umarex Gauntlet.
This report covers:
- The Gauntlet
- Test 1 — shot count and the power curve
- Power
- Impressions
- Frequent pellet jams
- Test 2 — different pellets
- H&N Baracuda Match
- JSB Exact Heavy
- Air Arms Falcon
- Discharge sound
- Evaluation
Today we will look at the Umarex Gauntlet’s velocity and shot count, but before we start I have to tell you something. Yesterday I started shooting the Sub-1 crossbow. It was fantastic! I wanted to report on it this week, but I can’t allow the week to pass without doing the Gauntlet. So many readers are awaiting my findings. And, as I told you on Monday, we have two guest blogs this week, so the Sub-1 report will wait until next week.
The Gauntlet
The Gauntlet accepts a fill to 3000 psi, which makes it sort of friendly to hand pumps. The manual doesn’t mention cocking the rifle before starting to fill, so I filled it from empty to 1000 psi with a prototype Hill hand pump. The rifle was uncocked at the start and filled immediately. I stopped at 1000 psi because this pump has no pressure gauge and it was too difficult to tell where I was. The fill nipple is opposite the pressure gauge, so I had to pick the rifle up and turn it over to see the pressure. Too much bother!
Reader GunFun1 took a filled tank off his rifle to demonstrate that it is possible. So, even though partial disassembly of the rifle is needed to remove the air tank, it is possible to install a filled one. That was a question we had last week.
I completed the fill to 3000 with a carbon fiber tank.
Loading
The Gauntlet receiver has a notch in back for the bolt to be held out of the way. This is for removing and installing the magazine. You need it because the bolt probe is long and narrow and will get in the way if the bolt isn’t locked back.
To install or remove the Gauntlet magazine, the bolt has to be pulled back out of the way like this.
The Gauntlet bolt nose is long and thin — a tuner’s trick for better airflow. It does get in the way of the magazine unless the bolt is locked back.
Test 1 — shot count and the power curve
The Gauntlet has a regulator. That means that all the shots should be within a small variation for the entire power curve. At the end of the curve, when the pressure inside the reservoir drops below the pressure at which the reg is set, the velocity should drop suddenly as the regulator is no longer able to do its job. We call that “falling off the regulator.”
I conducted this test with the Crosman Premier Light pellet. Other pellets will give similar results at different velocities, of course.
Shot……….Velocity
1…………….951
2…………….958
3…………….943
4…………….936
5…………….935
6…………….941
7…………….936
8…………….938
9…………….940
10….………..943
11….………..939
12….………..943
13….………..937
14….………..933
15….………..936
16….………..928
17….………..935
18….………..933
19….………..938
20….………..939
21….………..934
22….………..931
23….………..930
24….………..936
25….………..938
26….………..938
27….………..941
28….………..937
28….………..934
30….………..928
31….………..937
32….………..931
33….………..944
34….………..934
35….………..937
36….………..929
37….………..930
38….………..929
39….………..928
40….………..936
41………….. 939
42………….. 934
43………….. 931
44………….. 929
45………….. 930
46………….. 936
47………….. 936
48………….. 930
49………….. 933
50………….. 930
51………….. 932
52………….. 931
53………….. 928
54………….. 927
55………….. 932
56………….. 929
57………….. 928
58………….. 924
59………….. 930
60………….. 925
61………….. 936
62………….. 935
63………….. 928
64………….. 926
65………….. DNR
66………….. 918
67………….. 934
68………….. 925
69………….. 923
70………….. 927
71………….. 925
72………….. 942
73………….. 930
74………….. 937
75………….. 922
76………….. 937
77………….. 934
78………….. 936
79………….. 931
80………….. 928
81………….. 925
82………….. 927
83………….. 924
84………….. 924
85………….. 929
86………….. 932
87………….. 920
88………….. 922 fell off reg (valve fluttered)
89………….. 928
90………….. 910
91………….. 907
92………….. 910
93………….. 902
94………….. 890
95………….. 889
96………….. 881
97………….. 886
THAT is a comprehensive string! The average velocity will depend on which shots in this string you are willing to accept. In the first 20 shots the velocity varies by 30 f.p.s (958 high, 928 low). That’s a big spread for a regulated rifle. It is usually down around 10 f.p.s.
However, the spread remains within that range until shot 54, when it increases by one. After that the spread grows to as much as 36 f.p.s. across the first 89 shots. I note in the string that the rifle falls off the power curve at shot 88, when I heard the valve flutter. But shot 89 was still within the range. After that, though, the rifle is clearly off the reg. Velocities keep dropping in a more or less straight line.
What this means for you will depend on the kind of shooting you do. If you hunt or shoot groups at long range, better stop after the 6th magazine. If you are plinking at cans, there are at least another two full magazines to go.
Power
I’m not giving an average speed, because it depends on where you draw the line. Instead of a mean velocity I’ll go with the mode, which is the most frequent velocity recorded. I think it’s 936 f.p.s. which occurs 9 times in the 89 shots. At that speed the Premier pellet develops 15.37 foot-pounds at the muzzle. Heavier pellets will generate even more.
Impressions
I was expecting a tighter velocity spread than this. But I wasn’t expecting to see a shot count this high! The valve in the Gauntlet seems to wring every last bit of energy out of the air it has to work with.
Frequent pellet jams
I had in excess of 10 pellets jam in the magazine during this test. One was a double feed that I shot out of the rifle. That probably just means the Premier Light is not right for the Gauntlet mag! Let’s try something else.
Test 2 — different pellets
Now I will test the rifle with several different pellets to learn the Gauntlet’s potential. The rifle was filled to 3000 psi again.
H&N Baracuda Match
I tried 10 H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads. They averaged 866 f.p.s and ranged from 851 to 875 — a spread of 24 f.p.s. At the average velocity they produce 17.74 foot-pounds.
JSB Exact Heavy
Next I tried 10 JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. They averaged 878 f.p.s. with a spread from 872 to 884 f.p.s. That’s just 12 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet generates 17.70 foot pounds at the muzzle.
Air Arms Falcon
The last pellet I tested was the Air Arms Falcon pellet. At just 7.33 grains you know it’s not going to generate much energy. These averaged 977 f.p.s. The spread went from 964 to 991 f.p.s., which is a 27 f.p.s. spread. At the average velocity this pellet generates 15.54 foot pounds at the muzzle.
None of these three pure lead pellets had a single jam or misfeed. That means I was probably right about Premiers not being good in this rifle.
Discharge sound
The Gauntlet is quiet enough for larger backyards. It’s not the quietest PCP around, but it’s not noisy, either.
Evaluation
So far so good. I think it comes down to accuracy, which has always been true. Now I will mount the Bug Buster scope with sidewheel and start testing!
Back when the Gauntlet was first announced, a couple of us were wondering how it would do if it was “under-filled”, to facilitate using a hand pump. Any idea on how that would affect the shot count?
Rocketsci,
How underfilled were you guys talking about? Instead of 3000 psi the tank was only filled to 1000 psi using a hand pump, as I understand it from the text, and it achieved a lot of shots before falling off the regulator. I’m wondering how many shots before it falls of if B.B. started out at 3000 psi?
Siraniko
Siraniko
BB worded it wrong. Well not wrong.
I believe he forgot to say he topped the gun off to 3000 psi before he did the full shot string of 97 shots.
And if I’m wrong my gosh he should get 200 plus shots out of his gun filled to 3000 psi.
Also I should note that my shot string from 3000 psi is about the same shot count BB got with his .177 Gauntlet. Only thing is mine is shooting a little faster with JSB 10.34’s. And I have shot mine at paper so mine does get 7 usable 10 shot mags on a fill from 3000 psi. That means a good point of impact to point of aim.
GF1,
You are probably right. I read the paragraph twice and there was no mention of him filling it to 3000 psi nor did he mention abandoning the hand pump and shifting to a compressor or tank. He also didn’t mention what the pressure reading was when the shots fell off regulator.
Siraniko
Siraniko
He noted on his shot string that the gun fell off the regulator at shot 88.
Siraniko,
I wish I could tell you that, but the gauge on the gun doesn’t read accurately. It was reading 2000 psi when I refilled for the second test, but my tank gauge told me the gun was really at 1100 p[si.
B.B.
BB
Wow really. I know we talked about this in the past with gauges not being true to each other.
But the Ninja bottle that came with my Gauntlet and the similar Air Venturi bottle along with the bottle on my Condor SS all read dead on to the liquid filled big face gauge that came on my China compressor.
I don’t call that coincidence. I have actually had good luck with the bottles like I described. For some reason the only ones I have seen that don’t match up is the gauges that are like what the Marauder’s and Maximus use.
Did you by chance use your buddy bottle or bigger hpa compressor to get some other readings just to see?
GF1,
I used the gauge on my carbon fiber tank. So far it has been spot on. Also, with the number of shots I fired and the reg. going off, I know the reservoir was below 2000, which is at the center of the green band.
B.B.
BB
Ok here is what I’m going by.
“I stopped at 1000 psi because this pump has no pressure gauge and it was too difficult to tell where I was. The fill nipple is opposite the pressure gauge, so I had to pick the rifle up and turn it over to see the pressure. Too much bother!”
So the guns gauge said only 1000 psi and you got 90 something shots. And you backed up the guns gauge with your carbon fiber tank but it said 2000 psi.
I’m still not getting it. Even if you filled to 2000 psi from your carbon fiber tank there is no way you will get 90 something shots out of the Gauntlet. Sounds to me like both the Gauntlet bottle and your carbon fiber tank are way off.
Like we talked before gauges can be off. Goes to show there needs to be a calibration gauge of some sort to see what the fill devices gauge says.
GF1,
Okay, I just added a sentence after that paragraph to complete the thought.
B.B.
BB
Ok I just read it. Makes more sense now. Thanks.
GF1:
You mentioned your China compressor above. If you don’t mind, which one do you have and how do you like it?
I lost a great friend and the local dive shop owner to a heart attack last week. I’m now trying to sort out air fill options.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim
Sorry to hear about your friend.
And just search ” China hpa compressor for sale”.
A bunch will come up. Most are direct from China. Try to find the ones that are for sale through individuals selling them new in the USA.
B.B.,
Well they had to cut a corner somewhere. The gauge is definitely the weakest link in any PCP. The only way you can get a reasonable accurate gauge is to use a bigger one which will break up the smooth lines of any air rifle. If this were the only problem it’s a small price to pay. One will just have to depend on the gauge of whatever you are using to fill the rifle with.
Siraniko
PS. I agree adding that last sentence/paragraph made more sense.
Siraniko,
These small gauges are incredibly cheap. They cost less than $5 when purchased in volume, so they must cost just pennies to make. It’s a wonder they work at all!
B.B.
Rocketsci
Read my comment below to Siraniko for more details.
But my .177 Gauntlet will get probably 20 usable shots from a 2000 psi fill.
And that’s equivalent to other guns like the Maximus. Here’s the thing though. With the regulated Gauntlet you will get 20 consistent shots out of it. The Maximus unregulated will progressively fall off every shot.
So yes if you want to stop at 2000 psi with a .177 Gauntlet you can get a reasonable shot count. And I might ass a very accurate gun for those shots.
Yep the regulator makes a gun versatile no doubt.
Whoops
Disregard that word in my sentence.
How about this.
“So yes if you want to stop at 2000 psi with a .177 Gauntlet you can get a reasonable shot count. And I might (add) a very accurate gun for those shots.”
Gunfun1-
Thanks, that’s what I was looking for. 2000 psi fill from a hand pump sounds fairly reasonable, and I believe I could go to a full full if I ate my Wheaties that morning.
Rocketsci
I would say so.
B.B.
Can the “spread” on the regulator be tightened? Even at the expense of # of shots.
Wouldn’t most shooters be happier with a 20fps or less spread with just 60-65 shots?
Can the regulator be changed?
-Yogi
Pack an extra bottle and leave the pump at home…
Yogi
Yes but it won’t come from the regulator.
The pellet fit and weight will play a part as well as the transfer port adjustment if your lucky enough to have that option on your gun.
And you could actually increase shot count by adjusting the transfer port to flow less air. You would just loose some velocity.
Yogi
Oh and if you want to get inside the regulator on these bottles the shim washers can be added or taken away.
It don’t add consistent spread but it does change operating pressure the gun sees. So if you hit that sweet spot in regulated pressure you could change the way the hammer hits the valve. So if it hits in a way that it don’t bounce it could tighten up the spread.
And that’s just a scenario I through out there. It’s multiple things that work together that will change how consistent the velocity is.
Yogi,
Yes, the regulator “can” be changed. But it isn’t straightforward. It will involve some serious design work. It’s not the stuff a home tinkerer can do.
A better plan is to learn where the best part of the power band is, in relation to the starting fill and stopping point, and go from there. For example, by filling to 2900 psi and stopping after 40 shots the spread would be around 16 f.p.s. That’s 928 to 944 f.p.s. No work done on the rifle — just better air management on the shooter’s behalf.
B.B.
Yogi,
It can take a bit of shooting before the regulator settles in. Regulators use a bunch of belleville washers stacked to control the inlet pressure and they may need to lap them selves before they play nicely together.
Most regulators are adjustable though you know what you are doing before you start changing things. Taking notes to be able to return to factory settings is a real good idea!
On the .177 HW100 that I use for target shooting I adjusted the regulator to gain shot count. Traded 150 fps to double my shot count – getting an easy 5 magazines (70 shots) per fill now.
Hank
Hank-
Thanks for the reply. Are belleville washers the wavey ones?
-Y
Yogi
They are cupped. I use them at work all the time in hydraulic and air applications.
Not B.B. Yogi but…
This link: http://springipedia.com/belleville-washers-stacking.asp and some others will give you some more info and ideas on Belleville Springs (aka; washers.). My first knowledge of there use was on a Hamilton Standard propeller Belleville Springs are used to control the driven propeller to very tight rpm tolerances. As with all things produced by human endeavors tight performance tolerances and uniformity checks and selection cost $$$$. So cheap regulator s just like inexpensive pressure gauges will usually provide wide a wide variety of results.
shootski
Thanks Shootski,
Sounds like these would make good stock retaining washers too?
What are the wavey washers that you sometimes see next to the breech block on break barrel springers called?
-Y
Yogi,
They are called wave washers!!! Wow! They can be used as a “locking washer” or as a filler for dimensional issues like in a Springer because the also have an axial linear loading cabability as well as shock absorption.
I think if you are talking wood stock without a bedding Pilar that what you are looking for is called an escutcheon. They keep the wood fibers from being crushed by spreading the load over more wood and also keeping it linear.. If you used a spring type washer instead I would think it might just cause the accuracy problems you are trying to prevent. But I’d certainly defer to a professional stock maker.
shootski
What might be happening with the Premieres and the hardness is the barrel is on the tighter side.
You may want to try the single shot tray when it comes to the next report with accuracy. Did you forget about it? Anyway you might be able to feel the pellet load better with the single shot tray.
And that fpe falls in the rules with Hunter feild target if I remember right. So far by the feel of the gun. Do you think it would shoot off a stick like in feild target. What I’m getting at is the .177 Gauntlet may just surprise a few people at their next feild target match. I’m telling you mine is so simple to shoot it’s rediculous.
B.B.,
For me, I would discount the first 2 shots. That brings the spread down a bit. Perhaps the reg. will settle in a bit with more shooting? Very impressive shot count.
New Hill prototype ehh? From what I gather, Hill is already at the top of the hand pump food chain. That will be interesting to see what the innovation is.
Bummer on the jams. As you know, some people have re-indexed the mag. spring in the M-rod mags. to add more pressure.
Looking forwards to the accuracy phase of testing.
Good Day to you and to all,….. Chris
Chris
I have two .177 Marauder mags that I use in the Gauntlet along with the Gauntlet mag. And I say this because the Gauntlet mag is wound tighter than my Marauder mags. Saying that mine have fed the JSB’s fine
I think BB means the way the pellet pushes in the barrel is causing a problem. That’s the hardness thing he’s talking about I believe.
And on the Hill pump. I wonder if it’s a 4 stage hand pump. FX has a 4 stage hand pump. I think Air Venturi does too. I my be wrong about the Air Venturi hand pump though.
And maybe they added the shop compressor booster to their hand pump like I did. Remember.
GF1,
I do not plan to get a hand pump, but I find any innovation interesting. As for jams, I would not hold my breath on Crosman head size consistency for 1 minute. Could have had some “fat” ones in the mix.
Chris
Let’s put it this way. I hope I don’t have to hand pump. I hope my compressor keeps chugging along. But I do got a Benjamin hand pump for those just incase purpose like if the electric goes out. Ole Gunfun1 is gonna keep shooting one way or another. 🙂
And you might be right with the consistency with the head diameter on the Premieres.
Very interesting. Does it work like a 5 stage pump now? I want to know more.
Rk
Don’t know about a 5 stage pump or even a 4 stage pump. The Benjamin hand pump is only a 3 stage pump.
I got the idea to add additional air to the pump from using my old Shoebox compressor. You can adjust the first stage air intake on the shop compressor and that makes the pump fill faster and slower to a point. It’s like supercharging the HOA compressor in a sense. Or boosting the performance of the hpa pump.
It doubled how fast my hand pump filled. And with only 30psi from my shop compressor. I could of went to 40psi but it makes it harder to pump once you start getting up at 2500 psi.
That’s all I can say. I don’t know how many stages it is by doing that. But I do know it works. 🙂
GF1,
Hatsan showed a 4-stage pump at this year’s SHOT.
B.B .
BB
Thanks. Maybe that’s what I was thinking of.
Gunfun1
What an ingenious way of using a shop compressor to aid your hand pump when filling your tank/gun. I have seen a shop compressor used in tandem with an old Shoebox compressor. I have a few questions if you don’t mind. What psi do you set your shop compressor for most efficient use? Besides using fewer pump strokes to fill your device, does it make the hand pump easier to use when reaching a higher psi, such as 3000-3500 psi? Have you established a maximum psi are you able to achieve with your system? Up to 4500psi? I admire people who like to think outside the box.
Ciao
Titus
Titus
The best pressure I found is 30 psi for my Benjamin hand pump. Above 30 psi it makes it harder to pump.
Also as you start getting higher the harder it is to pump even at 30 psi.
And I only hand pumped to 3000 psi. And I think the Benjamin hand pump is only rated to 3500 psi if I remember right.
Bit it does work nice.
BB,
I am really looking forward to hearing more on the new Bug Buster. I have one in my wish list.
RR,
It’s coming!
B.B.
Any potential barrel (or other) damage from the double feed you mentioned that you shot out? I had that happen when a friend shot my Marauder because the bolt takes a fair amount of force to cock all the way, and he pulled it back twice.
HS,
I doubt it very much. Even a soft steel barrel is much harder than the hard lead of Premier pellets.
B.B.
Thanks, B.B. Accuracy did not seem to be affected after the fact, but I worried about possible damage from two pellets being compressed together in the barrel.
Everyone,
Well — today’s report is causing a lot of you to think. Good! There is a lot to think about with the Gauntlet. I’m reading your comments and taking it all in. I plan to test accuracy next, but that doesn’t mean the testing has to end. This is an interesting air rifle and I plan to give it a very thorough test.
B.B.
B.B.,
From the pictures in your previous report on the Gauntlet and the one Gunfun showed your bottle had a pin check valve and his had a ball. It looked like the pin would release way before the ball. It may not be safe if the bottle has a pin valve. I don’t know just throwing that out there.
Don
Don
I agree about the pin verses the ball. I will take the ball over the pin any day.
BB
Yes it is and of course you will. 😉
But you know something else I mentioned with my Gauntlet it has to o-rings on the bolt probe that seals the barrel when the bolts closed.
I think that is a good thing. Definitely no air escaping from barrel in my Gauntlet. And I was trying to see in your picture up above if it’s got two o-rings on yours. I think it does. But it looks like the picture is cropped right at that second o-ring.
Oh and accuracy. I can’t wait to hear what happens with your Gauntlet. And what more could come after accuracy. 😉
I meant it may not be safe to unscrew a bottle with the pin check valve.
Don,
I understood what you said.
I have other PCPs that have pins and can have the tanks removed safely, so I think we are okay. Also, if it didn’t work that way, the entire reason to have a removable tank would be void.
B.B.
B.B.,
On your photograph of the bolt probe, at least in the photo, it looks as if the probe O ring may be damaged on the underside. Potential cause of velocity spread? Or digital artifact?
shootski
Shootski,
It’s just the angle of the picture. Only the front o-ring shows. There are two. I just inspected the bolt and both o-rings look okay. They did seem dry, though, so I greased them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks for checking!
I noticed the two O-ring design choice. I was always taught that two O-rings weren’t needed if the design was well executed. Specifically that it added no immediate better sealing compared to a one O-ring design.
shootski
Shootski,
Although not pretending to be an expert, I believe that you are technically correct – with a proper design two O-rings do not increase the safety margin of a one O-ring solution. However, there is a caveat: the human factor. A dual O-ring can prevent a drastic failure if one of the O-rings got nicked during installation or if there is a minor manufacturing defect on the bearing surfaces. As we all know, both are probable in mass production products.
As a disclaimer let me say that my experience is with oil field equipment, rated for 30,000 psi in fluid – quite different from our current discussion – but I think that the same principles apply.
Henry
It looks like the regulator settled in after a few shots and didn’t go back up into the 1950s again. I wonder if a second shot string would be more consistent.
950s, that is!
B.B.,
That shot count is impressive, to put it mildly!
Michael
B.B.
Wow what a shout count and I bet with the bug buster you’ll have some great groups.
Thanks
Bill
Shot count
B.B.,
Do regulators “wear” out? Also, is there any more “up keep” on a regulated gun?
Thanks,
Doc
Docx,
The Belleville washers that act as springs inside the reg do eventually go soft and have to be replaced. As far as I know, they are the major wear items. The greater stress they are subjected to (regulating high pressure into very low pressure, the faster they wear.
There is no upkeep, beyond repairing the reg when it fails.
B.B.
BB
From what I see at work. They also crack.
B.B. and Gunfun,
I know you can’t know the day the reg will fail and every gun is different, but in general about how many years will they last? If it’s the pressure, would leaving a regulated gun under pressure wear them out faster (or maybe leaving the gun at 3,000 psi vs 1000 psi)?
Thanks,
Doc
Doc,
I have used them at work when specifications on 15-38 kV switchgear specified the use. They are at their optimal working range when not fully compressed. They act as a spring and can maintain pressure/torque in response to heat effects. For air guns, in response to air pressure. As for storing high or low/reg. life,…? I do not know. I would say that it has to do more with the metallurgy than anything else. I am sure some are made of better steel than others, like anything else.
Doc
The ones we have at work will usually last year’s. Some do occasionally fail sooner. Most everyone I have seen fail is from the washers cracking.
So who knows really. And as it’s said. If it’s mechanical. Sooner or later it can break.
GF1,
On the above, gauge accuracy topic,… my Guppy tank, M-rod and Maximus are all very close. Within 25-50 psi. 100 at worst. The Shoe Box,… as you know,.. has no gauge, but does have an adjustable shut-off.
Chris
Here is what I had on my Shoebox.
/product/air-venturi-inline-air-pressure-gauge-0-to-4500-psi?a=3865
And remember I had a older Shoebox that had a mechanical shut off instead of what the newer Shoebox have.
And I had that gauge on my Shoebox from right when I got it. I had it for close to 6 years and filled many different brand guns. It was always the Crosman/ Benjamin gauges that didn’t read right. And I’m taking 300 psi difference on some.
All I know is even the small Air Venturi gauge that I gave the link too seems to be consistent with most gauges. I even put that gauge on my old.25 Marauder. Of course just the gauge not the whole assembly I just showed.
Doc,
I had a Daystate Huntsman that lasted me 4 years and was good when I sold it. My Career 707 went south in three.
B.B.
B.B.
There is a typo in the caption for the 3rd picture of the bolt nose. Blot should be bolt.
“The Gauntlet bolt nose is long and thin — a tuner’s trick for better airflow. It does get in the way of the magazine unless the blot is locked back.”
Thank you for the nice review of the Gauntlet. Looking forward to the accuracy test. BTW, I bought the Gamo Urban PCP and I am hoping to see you review that airgun at some point. It’s a real shooter.
Geo
Geo
Have you got to shoot your Urban outside yet?
GF1
No, I have not had an opportunity to shoot my Urban outside yet. Today the weather here in southwest MI is snowing and blowing again. Also, my new BKL offset rings should be here today and then I will install those before doing any more shooting. I will keep you posted though 🙂
Geo
Geo
Ok was wondering if you got your rings yet.
George,
Got it. Thanks,
B.B.
I was curious what the velocity stats would be for each mag that BB shot in his string so I plugged in the numbers and I’m putting them here is case anyone else is interested. I started with shot 3 on the assumption that the regulator needed to be “woke up” with the first couple of shots. The middle mag and the first mag seem to be the best, but for any one mag, I like them all except #9.
That high velocity spread is not promising for accuracy. It actually seems to be less desirable than a sensitive springer. My IZH 61 was jumping around the other night, but I noticed that when my technique came together, it was as accurate as anything else. Variable velocity seems to be intrinsic to the gun and cannot be corrected by technique.
ChrisUSA, the wind is acting directly on the pellet with the pressure of the air molecules, so it is not action at a distance. True the wind is remote from the gun, but in that case it is acting equally on different combinations of guns and pellets and wouldn’t explain why some do better at longer range than others. What I’m wondering about is the cause of why some pellets do better at distance while others that have performed equally well at short ranges fall off. This difference happens long after the pellets have left the gun. My conclusion is that there is no action at a distance but that tiny differences in the starting conditions (associated with better quality and fit with the gun) just take awhile to manifest themselves.
Right you are about tactical flashlights. The military procurement system is highly complex and hard to generalize about. I’ve heard that often the military get overcharged. Their sniper rifles cost tens of thousands of dollars! And I don’t know that the performance is commensurate. Also, I’ve heard that often soldiers, even in elite units, will buy civilian gear that is cheaper and better than the military issue. On the other hand, there is no denying the resources behind the military that outclass anything else. Some of that goes in the wrong direction. It is amusing to read about the history of the Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW) which was intended to replace the AR design a long time ago. It was so heavy with its armor and sensors that when they field-tested it with the 82nd Airborne, the troopers outfitted with the system toppled backward and were unable to get up, just like turtles lying on their shells.
Still with all of their resources, the military cannot avoid coming up with something good. As one of Dirty Harry Callahan’s bosses said in a movie, “The pressure flows downhill, Callahan.” It is fascinating to see how night vision technology which was once top secret is now for sale on the market. And the same with the Head Up display HUD in fighter planes. I asked my uncle if his new corvette was equipped with it, and he scoffed and said that technology has been around since 2007. It hasn’t trickled down to me yet. What I’m waiting for which I think would be a great idea for the military is to create night vision that works underwater. Maybe they have such a thing already. It seems like it would be very useful to the military and it would make a killing in the commercial market.
Matt61
Matt61,
Thank you for the very insightful response,.. as usual. 😉 I see your point. Over at HAM, they recently did an extensive pellet BC test. It would be most interesting to see if:
Take A, B and C pellets at 25 yards,… all shoot pretty well.
Now,.. take those same pellets and factor in the BC and see if the ones that have the better BC are better at distance, like say 50 yards.
That is the best I got for you on a contribution.
That would be a nice test for B.B. to do and the information is already, readily available. What you say B.B.? A credible experiment?,…. or B.S.?
Thanks Matt,…. Chris
Matt61,
An object flying in an air mass is operating in a vector system created by that air masses total motion. There are some non-ideal losses due to inertial forces. Simplified the effects are almost as if the lateral air mass movement could be added and subtracted with the round/object path to (or past the POA.) Unfortunately we are also usually not shooting our airguns outside of ground effects which add turbulence at all angles to the problem. I won’t even try to discuss Coriolis Effect especially if you are shooting on a N-S oriented range.
The first tactical flashlight use of a white (actually blue) LED that I witnessed was in the mid 1990s. Red LED Flashlights had been around for some time in aviation applications.
On your wish for an underwater imaging system. That has existed in the Marine world for a long time as a 3D SONAR. Some of the high dollar commercial 3D fishfinders are amazing! No color of course but that can be overlooked. However there might be systems that operate in the “water window frequencies” that would potentially be more to your liking.
shootski
Shootski,
I saw an episode of “The Long Rangers” and they demonstrated the Coriolis effect quite clearly. 1000 yard shots if I recall correctly. 3-6″ high and low difference if I remember. 3 shot groups. It has been a few years since I have seen it.
Shootski
My dad taught me about the Coriolis effect when I was a kid. Let’s just say he was a well trained very good shot.
But a lot factors into how that pellet makes it from point A to point B.
GF1,
What do you think of BC affecting the better groups at 50 yards when all (tested) pellets show similar accuracy at 25 yards?
Chris
We had that conversation in the past.
Of course. Like I said it all makes a difference. But weight and aerodynamics takes effect differently at different distances.
BB and all,
I’m really enjoying this series and the related comments.
I got my Gauntlet for Christmas and I am having a blast with it. I’ve not had a pellet jam (jet) but I have had a couple of double feeds. I’ve learned to listen for the click when cocking the bolt so I know that I’ve pulled the bolt all the way back.
My guns seems most accurate with the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets that BB linked above, at least out to 30 yards, which is the maximum distance I have been able to test so far.
Jim
Jim
Same for me. And not one jam or even double feed.
And as far as shooting goes. It’s so easy to shoot accurately it’s not funny. I totally am glad I got my Gauntlet. In .177 I might add.
My opinion is that the true potential of a powerful rifle like this is lost in 177. To use the car anology that BB sometimes use. It is like trying to make a Fiat perform like a Farrari.
Ton
Why do you say that. Explain what you mean. Not sure if I’m following your analogy.
Gunfun1,
A 22 pellet is more efficient than a 177 I think that’s established by the experts. Open the link below and scroll down to “which caliber is better 177 or 22”
http://bsaguns.co.uk/support/FAQ.aspx
A powerful plant should make maximum use of its power why bottleneck it with a 177? Everyone has his preference I know. I could never see the point of a 12 fpe Webley Patriot in 177; why not get a HW 30s in 177? Anyway just my opinion.
Ton
Yep understand it’s your opinion.
And ok on efficient. But I don’t think efficiency is the main concern. In my opinion intended use and accuracy is what it’s about. And that could be had in any caliber with the right combination.
And no problem on your opinion. And sorry but that’s my opinion. And we are both entitled to that. 🙂
Ton,
There was mention of a .25 cal version, guess it just has not been perfected just yet.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/exclusive-sneak-peek-umarex-gauntlet-25-caliber-prototype/
Mike
Mike
Yes I been hoping to hear it is available. Especially after what my .177 Gauntlet has been like.
Gunfun1,
That was from August, and I have heard nothing since then. Also nothing on the Umarex site as well. Guess it is just wait and see.
Mike
Just noticed Tyler says summer/fall 2018 in the Q&A on Pyramyd AIR.
Mike
All I can say is wish it was sooner than later.
Just a comment regarding regulators. When purchasing mine, from a person whose business is repair of all types, regulators were described as one of the higher maintenance items, at least on upper end guns with overall excellent reliability. In other words he repairs them frequently.
That said, their benefits are obvious and it may be a fair tradeoff. I think this would be true if the regulator design is easily serviceable. I know on some models like the HW100 it is not.
Notably, the Wolverine from Daystate is now available with a regulator. This from a company that, having had prior models with regulators, went away from them in favor of their “self regulating” valves. Of course this may be a matter of consumer demand, and keeping up with market trends.
Idaho
The regulator on the Ninja bottle the Gauntlet uses and the one on the Air Venturi HPA bottle are very simple regulators to work on.
And yes they are not internal like the Huma regulator I put in my Maximus. Those would be more difficult only for the reason the gun needs somewhat took apart to work on them.
I definitely like the regulated bottle design. I wish more guns would come available with this system. I’m thinking it will soon be a trend in the future.
And one more note since we are talking regulated bottles. I sure wish AirForce guns would release a regulated bottle for there guns. Or at least use their Co2 adapter and a regulated Air Venturi bottle and make it another choice when ordering their guns. I think AirForce would sale a ton of them if they did it. Heck people would be converting their guns they have over I bet.
Anyway sorry about the rambling on about the AirForce guns. But I just wonder why some things don’t happen or take so long to happen. Especially since it’s a obvious thing.
GF
I agree the regulated bottle makes sense. It is a complex operation to get at the one on the HW 100.
Daystate is using a regulated bottle. I suspect it will be a continuing trend.
Idaho
I think it will also be a continued trend. It just makes sense.
The the bottles can even be used on other guns. Like if you decide to take one gun to the range or out in the woods. You can unscrew a bottle off another gun instead of taking a hand pump or buddy bottle. You go back home and screw it back on your other gun. Pretty nice if you ask me.
Gunfun1,
Regarding the speed variations that BB noted, most of the talk has been around possible pressure variations in the regulator. Definitely a good possibility but given the simplicity of the mechanism I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Also mentioned were pellet irregularities, also a contender I guess, but not convinced yet. What no one mentioned is valve adjustment, or breaking-in period. Could the hammer be hitting the valve too hard or not hard enough? Bouncing?
Forgive me if the question doesn’t make sense, I have very limited experience with PCPs – just a 1701P – but I am planning to get a Gauntlet real soon and I am trying to learn as much as I can on the subject. Thanks in advance,
Henry
Henry
Sorry didn’t get back to you yesterday. I usually don’t go back and read the older blogs. I just decided to today for some reason and seen your reply at the bottom. If you reply directly to me then I will see you did. So keep that in mind in the future.
But as far as your question goes. Yes you could be right about valve bounce and such. But here’s something I have seen.
That fps spread of 36 over the shot string of 89 is good in my opinion. I have seen almost that much spread on pcp’s that only get 25 shots from a fill.
Here’s the the thing. The fps spread doesn’t bother me. Why is because I want to know if those 89 shots hit pretty much the same on paper. If I see no point of impact change over those 89 shots on paper then I know the fps spread is ok. That would be then called 89 usable shots. If at some point the shots start dropping on the target is the point where the fill pressure area of operation comes in.
In other words don’t let the chrony numbers mislead you. It’s very good information to know. But also it’s even better information to know what the pellet does on your target.
Hope that helps.
Thanks GF1, I noticed that I posted in the wrong place after it was too late and I didn’t know how to correct it.
Regarding your answer, it makes sense and I am totally in agreement with you – perfect speeds mean very little if the POI changes and viceversa. Anyway, BB wonderful reports and your experience as well as that of others convinced me to give the Gauntlet a try, and I am placing the order for a 0.177 with Pyramid later today. I am hoping mine turns out as good as yours. Hand pump for now, Air Venturi tank next, and a compressor later on. It never stops.
Thanks again, and please keep commenting. I (we) all learn from each others experiences.
Henry
Henry
That’s good news. Glad to hear your getting a .177 Gauntlet. Especially the .177 caliber. Seems everyone goes for the .22 caliber.
And now you have to report back when you get yours and your first impressions. Well and of course how well it (and you ) shoot. Will be waiting to hear. 🙂