Daisy Targeteer shooting gallery: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

A history of airguns

Part 1
Part 2

Targeteer shooting gallery
Daisy Targeteer shooting gallery.

This report covers:

  • Velocity
  • Ebay comes through!li>
  • Target
  • The test
  • First 10 shots
  • What about Daisy steel shot?
  • Bottom line

Today is accuracy day for the old Daisy Targeteer I’m testing. In Part two I showed you how I solved the feeding problem and got my pistol back to operational condition, though “operational” is a stretch. It’s weak and there is nothing that can be done about it. Today I will show you how I made a target to test the accuracy of the Targeteer.

Velocity

This is just a reminder of what we are dealing with. I have to shoot either original Daisy steel BBs, which are collectable in their own right, or number 6 birdshot. The birdshot is easy enough to get, but it has to be sorted by dropping it through the shot tube. If you don’t you’ll get one stuck and have to deal with it. The Daisy BBs go about 120 f.p.s. and the birdshot goes about 105 f.p.s., so neither one is powerful enough to go through a paper target. I will address that in a moment, but first let me tell you what I did about the shot.

Ebay comes through!

I went looking for Targeteer shot on Ebay, because I do want to shoot this gun from time to time. I found a guy selling new-old-stock tubes of Daisy shot for $15 per tube. That’s not cheap, but it’s at least available. I bought several tubes, plus I bought the box the tubes came in when they were sent to stores. That will make a nice man cave decoration!

Targeteer ammo
The bulk box that the Targeteer tubes came in makes a nice display for the man cave.

Target

I told you in Part 2 that the Targeteer will not penetrate paper. So, how do I test it for accuracy? Well, aluminum foil came to mind. I did some quick testing and found that it works perfectly. So I made up a target for this test.

I bent one end of a wire coat hanger into a rough circle, and the other end I made into a stand. Then I folded aluminum foil around the wire frame and marked the center with a Sharpee (indelible felt-tipped marker).

foil marked
The target, as I marked it.

Targeteer target
There is my target, standing up. No, I don’t plan on shooting it here! This is just to show you the target.

The test

The Targeteer is a short-range pistol. I decided that 10 feet was the right distance. I also decided to shoot off the UTG Monopod, because you don’t care how accurate I am. You want to know about the pistol. So the pistol is supported for this test.

Each BB is loaded singly, unless I say otherwise. I cock the pistol, drop a BB down the muzzle and then ram it into the breech.

Backstops? We don’t need no stinking backstops!!! Seriously, I could stand the target against a window and be safe. I didn’t, but I could have. This is one BB gun that’s safe indoors. I stood the target on my bed. And there was a cardboard box behind it that proved helpful in a way not expected.

Targeteer target setup
This is the target, the way I set it up. I eventually had to stuff the target base under that box flap, to keep the target from toppling over every time it was hit.

First 10 shots

The first 10 shots were number 6 lead birdshot fired from 10 feet away. I aimed at 6 o’clock on the bull. They all missed the target by shooting over, but being lead, they made marks on the inside of the box. And, to my utter surprise, two of them are still stuck in the cardboard!

Targeteer target backstop
The shots all went high and hit the box, instead of the target. The arrows point to two lead shot that are stuck in the cardboard.

After seeing that I decided to aim lower. The adjustable rear sight is already as low as it will go, so I aimed at the bottom edge of the target circle and began to hit the target. The lead shot were hitting about 4 to 5 inches high at 10 feet.

Targeteer target results
Aiming at the bottom of the target (bottom arrow) I hit the target 3 times out of five (arrows) at 10 feet. The spread is okay left to right, but not so good vertically.

What about Daisy steel shot?

I tried Daisy steel shot, as well. It was hopeless. Loaded one at a time and rammed down the bore they did their best, which was to stay on the box most of the time. Forget hitting the target.

Then I loaded them through the gun’s internal gravity-feed magazine — thinking that if the gun’s own feed mechanism was working the BBs would shoot better. Forget that! I got mostly double feeds, which means the air tube on the plunger is withdrawing too far. I have nothing to show for steel shot because it didn’t hit the target.

Bottom line

You may be disappointed by today’s results. I’m not, because I’m not finished. I’m going to test and review the catapult shooters soon, and today’s test gives us a baseline against which to compare.

I knew coming into this test that the Daisy Targeteer is not an air pistol with any sort of performance. I’m just glad I got it to shoot at all and that I figured out how to record its accuracy. As far as I’m concerned, this one is for decoration only.

91 thoughts on “Daisy Targeteer shooting gallery: Part 3

  1. Hi BB et al..
    Well, another off topic entry!
    The M14 that I recently converted to HPA was starting to give me real problems with the scope. Once again I’m beaten by the cheap plastic construction of this gun as the scope just lost zero (by a lot) when carried. The M14 scope mount moved so much on the breech that you could hear it creak and groan while slung on your shoulder. Had to re-zero at every new shooting location!
    After reading your recent blog on peep sights I decided to give the M14’s peep sights a try. I had tried them before but not having consistant power and an accurate pellet until now with the HPA and Daisy wadcutters I thought the M14 peep sights would never amount to much. They turned out to work very well with the Daisy wadcutters shooting about .600″ ctc at 15 yards compared to .720″ with the scope. I attribute that to the scope mount moving just a hair on every shot. Not sure if it was from the tiny bit of recoil, my hand grip or maybe just the long loading and pulling action of the trigger! Also when carried over the shoulder the peep sights never lost zero. A little custom comb work with ½” camp foam and some camo vet tape to fit my cheek properly and the gun is now a pleasure to shoot.
    With the consistant power and the accurate Daisy pellet I’m starting to index mark the rear sight ramp for different ranges. Pencil lines first and verifying each range over several days and then useing a scriber to make deep lines in the plastic at 10 yard increments. When all the lines are scribed I’ll fill them with white paint for visibility. Documenting the peep sights this way I think I can get fair accuracy out to 40 yards or even maybe 50 yards but the accuracy of the Daisy wadcutters will be the controlling factor at the longer ranges. I will be satisfied with ‘Sn accuracy (minute of tin can!) at the longer ranges.
    FYI I’ve found the newer belt boxes of Daisy El Cheapo wad cutters now weigh about 7.6 to 7.7 grains compared to the older pellets which weighed 7.8 to 8.0 grains. I haven’t noticed any performance issues though.
    Cheers
    Dave


  2. B.B.,

    I couldn’t imagine that this air pistol would have been so weak and inaccurate too. I can tolerate a weak airgun if it were accurate, but maybe you are asking too much at 10 feet. Could this one actually be made for 6 feet or less distance? Maybe the U-boat captain might have appreciated the weak output in his cramped quarters. I could just imagine him lying in his bunk shooting at the target which would be located at the foot of his bed. Then again how big were rooms in the city way back when this was introduced?

    Siraniko


    • Siraniko
      And maybe it’s a gun you could of given to your son or daughter to shoot in their room with out to much worry. Maybe less chance to shoot your eye out as that saying goes.

      I could see myself setting a small trash can in the corner of a room and lobbing shots trying to make it in the trash can. Who cares if it won’t hold 1″ at 10 feet.


      • Gunfun1,

        I can imagine myself doing that too. Hopefully I won’t have to use a trashcan the size of a 5 gallon pail. I think I’d use a 5 pound can of coffee and start at the foot of the bed to begin with slowly increasing the range.

        Siraniko


      • GF1,

        Did you mean 1″ at 10 feet,… or 1′ at 10 feet? I think this one was doing well to hold 1′ at 10 feet!

        Hey,… at least B.B. got to shoot a piece of toy air gun history. Very creative with the target and back stop I thought as well.

        The fact that it stuck 2 shot in the box does indicate that it is not a toy and in fact that you (could) shoot your eye out. A good reminder that even though something is called a toy and marketed as one,.. it would be best to not treat it as one.








          • B.B.,

            The bent wire coathanger is certainly an old standby for lots of improvised projects!
            Just in case you want a permanent class act target system for the Man Cave; I have used a wood box with a pair of notches at top front; left and right to hold a dowel for a roll of tin (alumnum) foil or parchment paper with a short length of rebar as a weight and shot targets roller at the base. The system works for weak sling shots/spit-wad shooters, air soft as well as very low powered pellet and bb guns. Use some painter tape to hold the used targets rolled onto the rebar. I used an old walnut floorstandng speaker. You can experiment with ammo stoping items but I have found six old worn out cloth hand towels hung vertically in the box stop amost any rebounds.
            Perfect for the Man Cave! Gets lots of requests to try it.

            shootski



            • Shootski,

              I like the idea of a roll down target roll. That might actually sell. 😉

              My indoor trap is a small crate made of 1/2″ OSB with 2×2’s in (all) inside corners. (I have 2)
              18″ wide, 24″ tall, 12″ deep.
              Hinged front door w/latch.
              8″x11″ cut out in front door.
              11 gauge (1/8″) steel plate in back.
              1/4″ thick rubber mat hung inside, mid point to back. (think semi truck mud flap thick).
              Corrugated cardboard backer behind target, hung over opening.
              Cardboard backer secured with binder clips.

              Works great for indoor shooting and chrony work. Many a .22 springer and .25 M-rod shots into it. When I chrony, muzzle is 4′ from target/box.

              GF1 recommended 2×4’s for an additional backer when doing close .25 chrony work. They did eat through the 2×4’s eventually. After 300 shots plus,… there was just a big ball of lead in the 2×4’s. I will be upgrading to hardwood 4×4’s in the future. 1/8″ steel is 100% intact and undamaged.

              Anything I have (air guns), I can shoot indoors and at close range. Around 45-55 fpe I suppose.

              If not doing chrony work,.. 41′ is normal shooting range.

              After awhile though,… indoor shooting target practice just got plain boring. It does work though in the Winter to itch the ol’ trigger finger. 😉 Plus, I like to cycle the guns even through the Winter,… once in awhile.


              • Chris
                I have I a steel plate behind the 2×4’s also. My trap will stop .22 long rifles at 50 yards no problem. And that’s around a 110fpe.

                Oh and also I use about a 1″ thick piece of phone book on the front. It’s all taped together with black Gorilla tape.

                The phone book turns into kind of mulch mixed with lead and wood so I really never end up with a hole. It kind of fills itself. And after a handful of targets I just put some more black Gorilla tape on. It works out pretty good actually.


      • BB
        Actually RidgeRunner and Vana2 was talking about the Bug-A-Salt and patterning with aluminum foil. I jumped in the conversation and mentioned that I used aluminum foil to pattern my long barrel 1322 and QB79 when I was messing around with salt loads and bird shot loads out of those two guns.

        Anyway glad it worked for ya.


  3. Does anyone have any info on the factory specs for this? Wondering if, because of age, that it is just shooting weak. Tired springs, bad seal, crud in the mechanism, etc.
    Not sure if they can even be reassembled after being worked on. Disassembly is possible always! Getting it back together and working can be a problem.
    Seems like with the seemingly lousy accuracy that this could have been quite a turnoff for new shooters.

    Silver Eagle


  4. BB
    I need to change my email address for this blog. How do I go about doing this. Tried to set up a new login but that’s not working either.
    And what’s with the ‘gotchas and 24 character password requirement now? My online banking doesn’t even require that much security!
    Dave



  5. Here in Columbus just set our table up at the Midwest airgun show. Dennis Baker was super nice helping us get going. It looks like 50 plus tables of vendors will be set up. The range is at a different location with shooting tomorrow and Sunday. Pyramyd Air is just down the aisle and we’re in the room with the giveaway stage. So far so good, pretty nervous but we’re gonna give it a shot.
    Carl


    • Carl,

      Wow!,… a “real”, “live”, “on scene” update!!!! I think that you just did a “one-up” on B.B. there! 😉

      Best wishes. Make some good contacts! My weekend schedule went from so-so,.. to worse and I will not be making it down to “C-bus”, as is the latest tag name for the capitol city.

      If I would “sell” one point,… it would be that your spinners are built heavier and that they can take a hit from a higher power gun,.. at a closer range than most out there.

      Again,… Best of wishes,…. Chris


      • Chris,
        Thanks for the well wishes and I hope to see you here sometime in the future. It might take several to get rid of the inventory. But I’m doing it in style with two nice looking ladies drinking a craft brew in Columbus.
        Carl


        • Carl,

          ….. “in style”,… what other way is there? 😉

          Nice looking set up by the way. I see the 2×4 display got a coat of paint and some logo. Nice.

          Enjoy. A nice little Vay-Cay ehh? Well deserved,.. from the piles of product that I see.

          Later,… Chris




      • RR,

        I have been giving the Sportsmatch (adjustable) rings a serious look. I see the only come in high and extra high. I looked for mediums, but could not find any. I do believe that I used medium BKL’s on the M-rod with a 56mm objective scope. I do not want to go higher than needed. 3mm gap with cap on.

        Q:,..I may have asked you before,… but do they adjust (fully) without removing the rings,caps or scope???

        (I do see that they come in 2 types with the more expensive one adjusting for W and E, while the cheaper one just adjust for E.)

        Q:,.. Also, did you use the W adjustment at all in your RAW 1000X set up?

        Thanks,.. Chris


        • Chris,

          The fully adjustable ones that I have do adjust fully without removing the scope and yes I did indeed adjust both vertically and horizontally. The were the right height for my UTG scope on my RAW.



    • Carl,

      Well yeah!,…. Duh!!!! What would it be without the beer,.. (ah-em?,…. SODA),.. cozy’s? Any salesman worth their weight is going to have some “incentive” at the ready to whip out at a moments notice.

      It is said,.. or so I am told,.. that it is (always) best to keep the adult type refreshments away from anything that is related to something that is shooting projectiles. Or,.. so I have been told anyways.

      “Cold Preservation Refreshment Insulators”,… perhaps? 😉

      Chris


    • Carl,

      The cosy’s are an excellent marketing idea, just hope you have enough to give one to everyone, that will put your web address into a lot of hands.

      Mike


  6. Off Topic – HellBoy Tactical BB and ?… Pellet Rifle

    Hate to say it BB but I think I prefer some of my free toy Airsoft spring pistols to the Targeteer 😉

    Well I did not give up on my HellBoy. I installed the 20″ rifled barrel from my Remington Air Master pump rifle and added some Airsoft outer barrel extensions. Also added an extended M4 Carbine RIS. I centered it in the outer barrel with tape in three places and locked it down tight, disabling any spring action. Just about a simple drop in job.

    Dust Devil BBs hit 508 fps and Crosman Copperhead BBs 495 fps. Accuracy improved a little but still nothing to brag about. Two would go into the same hole then move over two inches away, then move again. 1 min of beer can accuracy with BBs.

    Then I thought I would try to take advantage of the rifled barrel and shoot a few pellets. I have a lot of Crosman Competitions and they just happened to fit nice and snug inside the magazine exit port. Much easier than trying to put them in the barrel, one at a time of course..
    With a new CO2 cartridge and shooting from a table using a bipod I put 10 pellets into a 3/4″ hole at 10 meters. adding two more fliers and it opened to 1 1/2″. Now this is a whole new rifle to play with.

    To be honest I think it’s a whole lot easier to remove the mag and insert a pellet then using a break barrel rifle but it’s really not what you want a rapid fire M4 Carbine for. Just not a total loss in the accuracy department if you want to take the time.
    Hard lead pellets and light weight alloys will not fit in the mag opening unless you drill it out a touch, especially going in skirt first. They might enter the barrel nose first but it’s extremely awkward putting them in.

    I’m submitting two additional pics to P/A’s customer pic section for the HellBoy, adding to the one I have with the grenade launcher installed and the takedown photo.
    Bob M



      • Gunfun1
        The highest I got with the stock HellBoy short carbine barrel which is only 14 1/2″ was 465 FPS.

        The Remington or Crosman 2100B barrel is about 6″ longer and added 30 FPS with copper BBs. It drops off some as it gets cooler during continued firing like any other CO2 rifle.

        This is an extremely realistic AR as far as looks go. By the way, there is actually no way to hold down the upper if you trimmed off the metal on the ‘upper’ rear section allowing it to pivot open on the front pin like a real AR. There is nothing there to put the retaining pin through. A block of plastic that holds up the cocking lever is held in place with that pin now.


        • Bob
          It’s definitely a good looking gun. And I guess they had to change something so the firearm version wouldn’t interchange?

          And if I owned it I would have to use bb’s. Got to have that repeater rapid fire action.

          I would think it should be a good feral can killer now with the way you have it set up. I like it.


    • Bob,

      Way to go on getting it accurate. Hats off to all of the work and innovation. It is too bad that went from a repeater to a single shot though. At least you had an idea, carried it out and had success with it. That is always a satisfying thing. I can identify with that as I am the type to work on things as well.


      • Chris USA
        I looked into getting a replacement barrel for the Remington AirMaster and found some on e bay but when you added up the cost and shipping it came to about $30. So I just ordered a Crosman Legacy on sale this weekend from P/A for a bit more and will have a bunch of spare parts left over.

        Heck I may even try to put the short HellBoy barrel in that one for a toy plinker once I remove the long barrel. Interesting to see how pellets might work in that short smooth BB barrel.



  7. A view of the main hall. Every one here is very nice, very helpful. Tyler Patner is manning the P.A . booth.
    Sales are good, feedback has been very positive, so many firsts today.
    Carl


    • A far cry from the quarterly Gun Show here in San Diego. Tables are surrounded with people two deep and you need to say “Excuse me” ten times to walk down an isle and wait in line to buy any ammo. Of course it’s not strictly an airgun show.

      That looks like a totally enjoyable experience.


    • Coduece
      Looks like a nice show.

      You run across left hand FWB 300’s? Or right hand for that fact.

      And if any one is selling the factory front globe sight you might want to grab it. They are kind of hard to get a hold of nowdays. Decksniper pointed that out the other day also. He’s got a modded FWB 300. And come to think about it I forgot to ask what he done to his and see if it’s got any goodies like mine.

      Anyway have fun. And I would like to see more pictures of the show if you get a chance.


      • Gunfun1

        My FWB 300S was tuned by a pro in Europe. He reads BB’s reports. He would be the one to say what was done to my rifle. He reported to me that tested velocity was high on my rifle vs norm after completion. We had done good business before so I knew what to expect.

        He uses the same nickname here as his real name so I’m letting him decide about a response out of privacy concerns. I do know my rifle is so consistently accurate, It may take a serious PCP competition rifle to beat it.

        Decksniper




  8. B.B.,

    Do you have an opinion on the Athlon line of FFP scopes. I have been doing a lot of research of late and they are in the running over Hawke and UTG. P.A. carries them. Not too many FFP scopes out there at this time.

    Thanks, Chris




      • GF1,

        Well,… I placed an order today with P.A.. I guess I will be the P.A. Blog “Guinea Pig” on the Athlon FFP line of scopes. Lots of good reviews. Went with a 8-34×56 and some Sportsmatch rings (fully adjustable,.. the same ones that RR recommended, I do believe).

        As they say,.. we shall see how it goes.



          • Geo,

            Well, I had put to something on it. Getting something new gave me the chance to reexamine scopes and rings and see what is out there. FFP scopes seem to on the up swing. If UTG had offered one, I most likely would have went with them. I would look for them to come out with a FFP in the near future.

            As for the rings,.. I have learned that the more the scope is off from it’s center on each turret that some distortion in sight picture starts to happen. We all know that running a turret up or out too far is not good as well. There is several types out there, but the Sportsmatch seem to be the only one that has windage adjustments. There is a Burris ring that uses a cam shaped internal ring.

            The idea is that you center the turrets and sight in at, say 50 yards. If it hits 3″ low at 50, then you adjust the ring height, and not the scope turrets. The turrets are then used to fine tune. It also decreases the amount of hold over required as well. Shimming the rear ring is similar in concept.

            The windage feature does the same sort of thing, but also allows for correction if you zero at 50, lets say for example, but hit left at 25 and right at 100. This could be a ring issue or barrel to mount issue. Either way, these allow for scope position correction first and use the turrets second.

            Yes, it will be interesting. Now I just need a week off and a weeks worth of good weather! 😉 It is hotter the all get out here right now.

            Good Day!,….. Chris


            • Chris,

              I think that it’s great you are trying something new. I look forward to your reports on the scope as well as the rings. This will be good enlightening information for all of us.

              On the FFP, I don’t think that the FFP scopes would benefit us airgunners at shorter ranges as much as powderburners at longer ranges. I know you said that you want to shoot at 100 yards so maby you will benefit. I think most airgunners are shooting at ranges of 25 to 50 yards. I may be wrong but I do believe FFP scopes would be overkill for airguns. Maybe your reports can convince me otherwise.

              Yeah, it’s been blistering hot here in west MI too. And, the humidity has been unbearable as well. No outside shooting in that kind weather 🙁


              • Geo,

                I will be the first to admit that I need to more fully research FFP to get that maximum benefit from them. But, from the rather extensive bit I did already, they seemed like no-brainer.

                You may not/will not need 32x at 25 yards, but at 100 it might be rather nice. Regardless of whatever magnification you want and at what ever range, the hold over will be the same.

                Less hold over = less chance to cant. (adj. rings)

                At close range, and say a 7x, the reticle can be quite nice to pars the bull, but at 100 it can be lacking in definition. The FFP allows the reticle to enlarge as well. Essentially the same picture you had at 25, only using a higher magnification at 100.

                I look forwards to trying the new things. Hopefully all will turn out nice. Will keep all posted as I learn. It is all new to me too. I will do my best to pass along what I learn along the way.

                One downside to all of this,…. I am/will be, fresh out of (ANY) excuses! 😉


        • Chris
          Yep I like the idea of keeping the holds the same when using different magnification.

          You will have to let us know how it goes when you get it rolling.


  9. Our very modern 1938 Daisy Red Ryder came with a reprint of a booklet from many years ago which was packed in the box with the gun. It showed a picture of a cardboard box (I think it was two feet deep) full of newspapers and recommended that for the living room. So I suppose that’s what Daisy used to give out as their suggestion.


  10. What a day, a day filled with firsts, first airgun show, first on camera interview, first time meeting serious airgunners, first time selling something face to face. After the butterflies faded it was fun I met a lot of very nice people including a group of airgunners from Indiana whom I will be meeting up with. Sold quite a few targets, and got a lot of great input from from various points of view which was very helpful. Most of all I felt like I had finally participated. Like anything else getting started is the hardest part and I’m so glad I took this first step and I highly recommend getting personaly involved, go to a show or a shoot get personally invested it’s been very rewarding.
    Carl


    • Carl,

      That is awesome! 🙂 I am glad everything worked out well and that you sold some product. Did anyone show interest in picking up your product? Did you get some into the hands of any airgun reviewers?

      On camera ehh? Big Time! I watched the evening news in hopes that one of the 4 stations would pick up the show, but if there was coverage,.. I must have missed it. I would think that the club would have made some effort to put the word out to the TV stations.

      Glad you had a good time,…. Chris



    • Geo,

      Very nice. Note the wind flags. Very impressive. That shows that the Gauntlet is good past 50 yards. Wow,… that was a monster scope he had on that. That thing cost several more times than the rifle.

      It sounds as if they have a bit of a friendly feud gong on.


      • Yes, I believe the scope is a Hawke 8-32x56swat. Is that one you were considering?
        He didn’t seem to have the mag dialed up that high in the video though. An aspirin
        would be very difficult to see at 50 yards without using a high power scope I would think.


        • Geo,

          See the above post. Athlon,… which even surprises me. I am wanting to try a FFP (first focal plane). Without viewing it again, I am not sure what magnification he was on. Yes,… that would be a very good shot even with the best of guns. 5/5,.. no less. Very good. I would be happy with that any day of the week!




            • Geo
              I guess that’s why I wear glasses. Because my vision is not that good anymore without glasses.

              And I can see the pellet holes on the white paper when I shoot. Even out at 50 yards. I sometimes don’t draw my black circle dot on the paper. I just pick a spot and shoot. Then aim at that pellet hole when I shoot the rest of the shots in that group.



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