by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Beeman QB Chief precharged pneumatic air rifle.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
This report covers:
- The test
- H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm head
- Bug Buster scope performance
- JSB Beast
- What now?
- Summary
Today we see how the Beeman QB Chief precharged pneumatic air rifle does at 50 yards. Get ready for a pleasant surprise!
The test
I shot the rifle last Friday, which was my banner day at the range. The weather was perfect with no hint of a breeze — perfect for testing the accuracy of an air rifle. The test was ourdoors at 50 yards. I shot off a sandbag rest and the rifle was scoped with the UTG 3-12X32 Bug Buster scope.
The Bug Buster 3-12 scope is a perfect match for the QB Chief.
I looked at the 25-yard test results and selected the two best pellets. First up was the H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm head. At 25 yards the QB put ten of them in 0.334-inches. Sight-in took several rounds and then I shot the first group. I filled the rifle after each group, as we have established that the QB Chief gets around 15 good shots per fill to 2000 psi.
H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm head
The first group of 10 Baracuda Match pellets went into 1.386-inches at 50 yards. As you can see, the group is left of center, so after the group I adjusted the scope to the right. The height seemed to be aove the center of the bull, so I left it alone. I don’t want to shoot out my aim point.
Ten Baracuda Match pellets went into 1.386-inches at 50 yards on the first try.
Bug Buster scope performance
Several readers have mentioned that the crosshairs of the Bug Buster scope are thick, and indeed they are. I can still see them inside the bull, though, and as you will see shortly, they do work quite well. I adjusted the scope to the right after the first group.
JSB Beast
Next I tried some JSB Exact Beasts. These 16.2-grain domed pellets are super-heavyweight for .177 caliber, and as such make good hunting pellets if the accuracy is there. At 25 yards they gave a 0.36-inch group that is all the accuracy you need, but at 50 yards the 10-shot group opened to 2.217 inches. They may have destabilized by 50 yards because I noticed several of the holes are torn to the left.
JSB Beasts are definitely not for 50 yards in the QB Chief. Ten shots in 2.217-inches. Several holes are torn on their left sides and appear to have more pellets through them.
What now?
After seeing what the Beasts did I didn’t feel the need to try them again, but the Baracudas were tantalizing. So, I refilled the reservoir and shot a final group of them. This time it was different. The scope was adjusted pretty well and the shots didn’t wander at all. Ten of them packed into a tight 0.873-inches at 50 yards.
A great group of 10 Baracudas! It measures 0.873-inches between centers. I don’t think it’s typical.
That is a very good group, but I want you to understand that I probably can’t shoot another one as good for quite a while. Rather than say the QB Chief is capable of groups less than an inch at 50 yards I believe the true accuracy of the rifle is somewhere in-between both groups. It’s somewhere around one inch for ten shots.
Summary
This has been a thorough test of a budget PCP. It turned out better than I expected. The trigger was adjusted to a very light and convenient pull and the accuracy is spot-on where it should be.
The rifle has good adjustable open sights and a nice 11mm dovetail atop the receiver. You only need pellets and air to get started with this rifle, but it will grow with you as you want it to.
It is short on breath (fewer shots per fill) but the fill stops at 2000 psi, which is very user-friendly. All things considered, I think the Beeman QB Chief is a best buy.
B.B.,
The QB Chief now seems to be the gold standard among the budget PCPs. Cheap, accurate, and light. I can’t fault the low shoot count due to the relatively small reservoir. Since the lineage of this can be traced back to the QB78/79, conceivably there are some aftermarket parts already available.
Siraniko
PS: Section The Test first paragraph third sentence, “The test was ourdoors (outdoors) at 50 yards.”
Section H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm head first paragraph third sentence, “The height seemed to be aove (above) the center of the bull, so I left it alone.
Siraniko,
Fixed them. Thanks.
B.B.
Tom’s test reinforces much of what I’ve read, and seen in videos, of this air rifle. Seems like a fine first PCP airgun.
BB
But what I like about today’s test is that the gun and you were capable today of that good group.
At least it’s there. Now what would be interesting is if you took the Chief with you each time you go to the range and shoot a couple 10 shot groups. Do that for say 5 different days.
Then let’s see how repeatable the gun is. And maybe you will be more comfortable with the gun even.
That’s what I would like to see.
Forgot to say. And only shoot the Baracudas.
B.B.,
Since 50 yards is the practical limit for most air rifles, glad to see this one has done so well. We can add another one to the budget friendly PCP rifle list.
Good Day to you and to all,…. Chris
BB,
I noticed in the picture just how much shim you have under that scope. It has a visible cant to it and a huge gap on the rear rings.
Many, including myself bemoan the thick crosshairs on the Bug Buster line. I myself find it most noticeable when I shoot one air rifle with an etched glass reticle scope and then shoot one with a Bug Buster. What I and others need to keep in mind is a Bug Buster is not a target scope, it is meant for close range hunting. If you are slipping through the woods on the edge of the day and a bushy tailed tree rat scampers up a tree, just trying to pick out your intended victim in your scope is difficult enough without being able to see the reticle. On more than one occasion I have had to let a deer go by for this reason.
I think the problem is we have a line of light, compact scopes that are perfect for air rifles, but we want all the bells and whistles on it. There is the SWAT Compact scope.
RR
A bit too high of scope rings for my taste also. For the distances I shoot anyway. That would make for a higher cheek weld also.
But if it works it works.
RR,
Always liked the Duplex reticle for for deer hunting. Thick posts for the heavy swamp brush and fine lines for longer shots on the hardwood ridges.
Couple of my scopes have an illuminated reticle, thought it was just a gimmick but find it useful in certain lighting conditions.
Yeah, sometimes you have to let them walk. Spent a whole archery season chasing the biggest buck I have ever hunted. Couple of times I got him close to the edge of my effective range (’bout 30 yards) but never took the shot. Had him dead to rights feeding 20 yards from me one evening but the wind was gusting so badly I never considered putting an arrow on the bow. Watched him for an hour. Massive rack on that one – main beam the size of your wrist, spread was well beyond the ears and the tines an ear-length or better long.
Cheers!
Hank
Hank,
For deer hunting I used a Weaver 2.5x with post and a Weaver Quick Point. 100 yards in the woods around here is a very long shot.
RR,
Where I hunted in Quebec, early in the season a scoped rifle was great in the hardwoods as you had a good chance to get a shot at deer feeding on acorns. Like you, 100 yards would be a very long shot.
After a couple of days after the opener the deer would be holed up in the thick alder swamps with the woodcock and rabbits. Shotguns with buckshot or Brenneke slugs were the weapons of choice. Deer would hold tight and flush wild, was more like grouse hunting than deer hunting. Shots were usually very close and fast – exciting stuff!
Here in Ontario, it’s mostly farm country mixed with bush lots so a good scope on a 30-06 (or a .270) is the ticket.
Hank,
Never was much for scatterguns. My dad never cared for them. The .243 had the post scope and the .270 had the Quick Point.
The Remington 700 Varmint Special .25-06 had a Weaver 12x with extra fine crosshairs. When shooting a groundhog in the head at 500 yards it still looked like he was trying to hide behind a telephone pole.
RR,
Where I hunted in Quebec, early in the season a scoped rifle was great in the hardwoods as you had a good chance to get a shot at deer feeding on acorns. Like you, 100 yards would be a very long shot.
After a couple of days after the opener the deer would be holed up in the thick alder swamps with the woodcock and rabbits. Shotguns with buckshot or Brenneke slugs were the weapons of choice. Deer would hold tight and flush wild, was more like grouse hunting than deer hunting. Shots were usually very close and fast – exciting stuff!
Here in Ontario, it’s mostly farm country mixed with bush lots so a good scope on a 30-06 (or a .270) is the ticket.
BTW,
Some lawns have plastic ornaments, I am lucky enough to have the real thing.
This is “Lilly”…
Hank
They hang out here even when I’m shooting my air guns.
Guess they know me and the family ain’t going to bother them.
We had some mama and spotted fawns playing in the yard the other day. And we was even riding the 4 wheelers.
Hank,
I used to have such lawn ornaments here until we got Goselyn last July. I still see them every once in a while, but they keep a close eye on her. In one year she has killed at least seven rabbits and keeps the squirrels really jittery.
Vana2,
She beautiful isn’t she? On Monday we had two fawns in our back yard. The mother was back behind the pine trees watching them.
Geo791,
Yeah, they are beautiful.
Got a video this morning where she came right to me for a treat.
We have 3-4 regular does that visit and eat the flowers 🙂
Hank
BB,
I think the main issue I have with the Bug Buster line is the price spread is so close. The 4×32 is $85, the 6×32 is $90, the 3-9×32 is $100 and the new 3-12×32 is $108. Most of the time I would be quite content with the 4×32 or 6×32 having used low power scopes for hunting for so many years, but for just a few dollars more I can get one of the variables and turn it down to where I need it.
It would be nice if the fixed power Bug Busters were in the $70-80 range, but likely manufacturing costs are pretty close to the same for the entire line.
B.B.,
Ooooooooh, BARACUDA! (If you’re 50-60, you should get that one, especially if you have a heart. ;^)
I don’t hunt, but if I did, I think the Chief is what I would purchase among the ultra-affordable PCPs currently available.
Michael
Michael,
LOL!!! That hit a nerve and gave me a shiver 🙂
Thanks!
Hank
Michael
Oh yeah Baracuda. Yep know that song too.
GF
Had a ’69 . Looked at a 68 340s, but passed it up . Looked beat to crap.
tt
TT
One of my buddies when we was in school had the bigger body 70 Cuda’s. It was black with a 440, 4.speed. He drove it on the street with 2 ply wrinkle wall slicks to school everyday our senior year. That car still would burn the slicks in all 4 gears on the street. But of course he had a different cam and headers on it and put 4.88’s in the posi rear end. And nope the traction bars still didn’t help on the street. 🙂
Had a ‘71 Barracuda, fire engine red, factory cosmetic hood scoops, black vinyl top, sport rims, thin red wall radial tires, auto, A/C, AM/FM radio, rear seat speaker with FADE KNOB! Sexiest car I’ve ever owned. Dated my wife in it. Good times!
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Motorman
Them old cars were just great weren’t they.
Definitely had some fun times with them.
And thought I would mention it here today since we are talking pcp’s. I’m doing something with my Condor SS that I have been thinking about for a while.
Nope not the peep sights. And it should all be here between today and Saturday.
Here is what’s coming from Pyramyd AIR.
/product/airforce-co2-adapter-fits-condor-talon-escape-pcps?a=1713
And I had to get a similar bottle from eBay since Pyramyd AIR was out. It’s a Ninja brand like what the Gauntlets use.
/product/av-3000psi-13ci-tank-valve-1100psi-set?a=7882
And I already got one of these I’m not using.
/product/air-venturi-buttstock-fits-13-cubic-inch-cylinders?a=7459
So yep my Condor SS is getting regulated too. When the Condor SS gun gets done all my pcp’s will be regulated now.
The QB79, Maximus and Gauntlet and 2077/WildFire.
And I have already tested my Condor SS down at 1100-800 psi and it will get about 6 or so consistent accurate shots at that psi with the factory bottle. And of course just a bit less fps. But still makes pretty good fpe. We’ll see what happens by the weekend for sure though.
I’m feeling that it’s going to work out good with the regulated bottle.
GF1,
It’s the lack of a factory installed regulator that has always stopped me from getting one of their products.
Think that the big-bores (desperately) need regulators because each shot uses such a large percentage of the usable pressure in the reservoir. Would rather have decent 3 shots rather than wow, ok and phhhttt.
Hank
I wasn’t much for regulators. But after trying them I found it’s much easier to get numerous accurate shots out of a broader psi range. Basically no need to find the right working pressure for the gun your shooting if it has a regulator. Fill to whatever you want as long as it’s above the regulated pressure and your poi will stay the same regardless of bottle fill pressure again as long as you don’t go under the regulated pressure.
And I’m finding I like the bottle regulated guns better than internal regulated guns. Just for the fact the regulator is not buried inside the gun and the bottle regulated guns are universal in a sense and can be switched from gun to gun. That I like alot.
At least now we have multiple options to do what we would like to accomplish. That’s another thing that got me hooked on regulators.
GF1,
With the exception of my Maximus, all my PCPs are regulated.
Considering putting a regulator on the Maximus but will likely sell it and replace with one of the newer PCPs that is already equipped with one. Not in a hurry (my granddaughter still prefers my .177 HW 100 anyway – the kid has good taste 😉 ) so I am just watching the market.
Hank
Does any of your pcp’s use a regulated bottle?
GF1,
Not a regulated bottle like you setup – my FX Royale 500 is a “bottle gun” though. Don’t think that is what you mean.
Hank
Right I meant bottle with a regulator.
Hank,
What caliber is your Maximus? I have thought of one for quite some time.
By the way, with the coming of the Fortitude, you may soon be able to get a regulator from Crosman in the near future.
RR,
The Maximus is .177. Got it for my granddaughter to shoot but, as I mentioned earlier she prefers my HW 100.
I put a couple a hundred pellets through the Maximus and find it a fun (light) rifle to shoot – done mostly plinking and a bit of pesting at 10 to 20 yards, no serous target shooting.
I’m watching out for the Fortitude. Hope that the delays are due to Crosman checking out the features/strengths of the competition’s entries into the budget PCP market.
Hank,
The Fortitude most definitely has my attention. It is light and compact like the Maximus, but has all the bells and whistles. What is real nice is as long as everything else works well but I can’t get the accuracy from their barrel, I can always replace it with a LW barrel.
I myself would be interested in .22. I have an AirForce Edge in .177 that I have shooting at about 12 FPE right now. I only get about 25 shots before it drops off the regulator, but it does not take much to fill that little tank.
RR,
The Fortitude would have been my #1 choice if it had been around when the Maximus was offered. I like .22 as well, to buck any wind and the higher fpe. I do not know if you have yet to handle one yet,.. but in my opinion, it points and feels like a dream.
Any trigger tunes are already well established, assuming the triggers are the same.
Looking forwards to industry testing when it finally hits the market.
RR,
Feel that Crosman has gotten their barrel process to the point that they can get accuracy in the same league as many of the high $$$ rifles – that has impressed a lot of people.
Think they would be shooting themselves in the foot (or possibly higher) if they dropped that ball.
If the Fortitude meets the expectations I would get a .22 caliber for myself as a “walk-about rifle” to keep handy when I am out working on the property. You never know when you might get attacked by a pack of feral soda-pop cans!
Have a great weekend eh!
Hank
Hank,
I’m interested in the why on your statement: “…big-bores (desperately) need regulators….” My direct experience with big bore airguns is mostly limited to DAQs from sub big bore .25 cal. Rifles and pistols all the way up to the .575 pistol and rifle. With the idea that Dennis builds a practical hunting airgun that isn’t oversized an over weight gives you at least one full power shot and one follow up shot typically at just about the same power level. With the .308 rifle I get as many as six shots of which four are virtually the same power; based on my chronograph work. The .308 drops the pressure in the tube by 370 PSI on each of the first four shots so with a starting fill pressure of 3,700 PSI the percentage of fill remaining after four shots is well over 50 percent; I think Dennis has his charge flow, valve dwell and hammer weight/spring as close to perfectly balanced as any Big Bore gunsmith/maker.
I will say that what my bias; the KISS principle!
I am a total believer that goodenough beats best virtually without fail.
So what is it that makes you think Big Bores are in desperate need of regulators? Is it some of them or is it to make them that the makers didn’t anticipate them being used for…like formal target fifles?
I’m really intrigued by what airgunners think big Bores are and especially why the regulator is desperately needed…so have at it please. Give me your thoughts.
Thanks,
shootski
shootski,
I am wondering that. as well. The Texan doesn’t need a regulator. I showed how even it is for up to 5 shots.
B.B.
Shootski,
I’ll state the obvious and say that I am very pro-regulator, five of my six PCP’s are regulated and I have had excellent performance from them.
Being a designer by trade, I agree that one should follow the KISS principal whenever possible/practical. That being said, in a comparison of PCPs to cars, I think of regulators like automatic transmissions. Yes they are more complex and add cost but many people (given a choice) prefer them for convenience.
I don’t have a big-bore (yet) so my direct experienced is from .177, .22 and .25 caliber rifles with working pressures between 2000 and 4500 psi. I have helped a couple of friends set up their Marauders so I am familiar with plotting bell-curves and figuring out optimum working pressures.
In general, it seems (sorry to be vague – I’m not in “buying-mode” so I don’t have detailed notes) that (most?) big-bores, work at higher pressures, use large volumes of air per shot and get low shot counts.
From my inexperienced perspective, a rifle that is OK for 2 to 4 “good shots” on a fill is experiencing a major change in pressure (percentage of tank wise) at each shot. A really well designed and tuned valve system might handle such a pressure shift reasonably well but I believe that a regulator might manage it better.
Dennis makes some awesome rifles but, from what I have viewed and read not all big-bores are as well designed/tuned so there is room for improvement.
When I say that “big-bores desperately need a regulator” I am speculating that they could benefit from having a more consistent pressure across their dynamic working range and may be able to eek out another useable shot or two at the same time.
GunFun1 is regulating his Condor SS. Don’t know what caliber it is but I am definitely curious about the results.
Would really like to see tests between a standard and a regulated big-bore to see how it shakes down.
In the mean time I gladly defer to you guys that have and shoot big-bores. I’m not in the market for one at this time but I am definitely interested and curious about this aspect of our hobby.
Cheers!
Hank
Hank
My Condor SS is .25 caliber.
And I’ll have some info about it in a minute below.
I got the bottle and adapter today. Done some shooting. Will have a picture of the gun tommorow.. out of time for today. Got to get ready for work.
Hank,
Thank you for your consideration and full answer.
I have seen numbers on other makers Big Bores and have wondered about the exact things you have pointed out about consistency. That is why I waited for my Quackenbush rifles and pistols. I might buy an AirForce Big Bore (they came out after I joined the DAQ army) but my heart is still in figured wood and deep hot bath bluing.
I have a great gunsmith (not an assembly/sub assembly swapper) who worked on my competition powder burners who had a sign posted that said, “We don’t work on Airguns.” I never bothered him with my Hämerlli or Anshutz air rifles since I had that covered. I did need a gunsmith to swap out a Weaver base mounting system on my .575 DAQ pistol for a Picattiny rail with 8 Milradian of elevation that could work with a scope and a dot depending on if I was using it as a pistol or a stocked pistol. So I brought it along on a powder burner visit (a night front sight, Tritium, installed) on my Mossberg USM1A1-590. When he looked at the DAQ on the counter he said one word, “Grizzly?” I said no Grizzly just wanted to see if you would work on it. He then realized it was an airgun! He did the work…but the sign is still up in the shop. I will say one last thing and that is that when I hunt I usually have just one tag and I’m not rich enough for porters to carry out multiple carcasses if I had more tags, Lol!
I love the prehunt scouting and the actual close stalk a great deal more than the actual shot. But when I do shoot I don’t expect needing more than one shot. I like the idea of a second shot which I load as soon as I drop from follow up. I think regulators certainly have a place to gain maximum efficiency but I’m not looking for that in a Big Bore I’m looking for the power to do the job consistently. With the .575 I’m getting 270ft/lbs at the muzzle with .283 grain lead round ball and carry 200ft/lbs to 75M. I haven’t had time to work up the 350 grain hollow point but expect it will add about 50ft/lbs out at 75M. I still have a strong follow up shot and an adaquate Coup dé Grace. My favorite rifle is still Dennis’s .458 LA that puts out two 450 grain bullets at an honest 500 ft/lb and an adequate Coupe dé Grace. To get that kind of power Dennis actually had to detune his valve…I just don’t see the need for a regulator. Of course I have never owned a vehicle with anything but a manual shift transmission!!!!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Hank; I hope a few more readers will also say their thoughts too!
shootski
Shootski,
Like you, I love the prehunt experience – the hours spent in the bush scouting and scheming as much as the actual hunt. If I did my homework right I usually filled my tag within the first week of the archery season. Still spend hours in the bush following deer sign and interacting with locals – I speak the language pretty well and they trust me. I feel that is very special.
Shootski, you have a heck of a lot more experience in the shooting sports than I do. I have been a casual (but serious) shooter all my life and enjoy plinking, a bit of paper punching and some hunting. I tinker with and tweak all of my own equipment.
I am not hung up on shot count… you only need one – right? I learned to hunt with a slingshot, bow and Crosman 101 – I needed to make the first shot count because there was no quick follow-up.
Learned with bow hunting for deer that the smooth, quiet power of one of my homemade 50# bows was just as effective as the raw power of my 65# compound bow. Adequate energy on target is all that is needed, what goes down range after the hit doesn’t apply.
The thing is that on a hunt, you may need more than one shot and a good follow up. That is why I think that a big-bore could benefit from a regulator. Skim off some of the raw power and trade it in for consistency and shot count – at an adequate power level. Did that on my .177 HW 100, readjusted the regulator to change (about) 100 fps into another 30 shots with still lots of power available.
Think that a big-bore designed with an integral regulator would be a practical solution. Wonder if Dennis would consider a project like that.
I’ve owned a couple of “muscle cars” and enjoyed managing the engine power with a standard transmission for years. Now I am happier with an automatic transmission where I select Regular, ECO or Sport as required with a button. Sorry if that sounds blasphemous 🙂
Cheers!
Hank
Shootski
I’m with Vana2. I think if the big bores were regulated than you could get more than a whopping 5 shots.
That’s one thing that turns me off about big bores.
Gunfun1,
Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from but can’t agree with your desire for shot count when we are talking hunting Big Bore.
See my response to Hank above to understand why I don’t care about the shot count that a regulator might give me. I’m not certain that with a DAQ that would require the regulator to be in the tube
(eating up total volume) would even make up for that loss. I also suspect that the flow that Dennis works so hard to achieve wouldn’t be negatively effected by the regulator. That might mean a loss of both power and total volume…but that is just speculation based on the design of the Quackenbush Big Bores.
Thanks again for weighing in!
Hope your project gets you the results you want!
shootski
Shootski
I understand completely what your saying.
By adding a regulator to a gun that wasn’t designed for a regulator means you have to make up for it in the way the valve allows the air flow to work. The striker or hammer as some call it, the spring and maybe even the transfer port opening. Then yes the volume change in the air resivoir.
But I have added a regulator into a smaller volume resivoir in the WildFire. It still picked up shot count even by the room the regulator took up. I don’t know if you seen any regulators that are internal for air guns. But they are fairly small and don’t take up much room. So you just have to weigh in all those factors if you want to consider adding a regulator.
But on the other hand let’s say Dennis designed a big bore with a regulator. And just so happens now he gets 10 usable shots on a fill instead of 3. Well to me that’s better. And of course that’s just speculation.
But that’s what I’m getting at.
In the big bore debate one must consider the Umerex hammer. Regulated in the design to give maximum consistent power.
Gerald
Gerald
Thanks for bringing it up. I completely forgot about that gun.
Here’s the link if someone wants to check it out.
And the regulator is probably the big reason why that gun is working. Each shot is regulated at 3000 psi from a 4500 paid fill.
That’s some serious air movement there on each shot.
/product/umarex-hammer-50-pcp-air-rifle?m=4336
Gunfun1,
I concur with all you said.
I doubt Dennis will ever design and build a regulated big bore for sale…but I’ll not speak for him.
shootski
Shootski
That’s the thing about people like Dennis.
Sometimes the unexpected is what to expect. Thats how things get noticed and you stay on top. And it’s also good for us air gunners.
And if any one was going to “scratch build” a air gun it would be Dennis.
But also it would be doable for him if he decided to upgrade one of his guns into a regulated gun. After all he knows his guns best.
But at least we get to talk about it anyway. 🙂
GF1.
GF1.
Eagerly awaiting your report. I have long wondered how well that valve designed for flowing CO2 will work with air,. It’s hole in much larger than the valve on my Talon SS tank and huge compared to the hole in my micrometer tank.
Hope it works well cause I will be heading to my local paint ball shop and purchasing a 4500psi Ninja tank.
Mr B.
Got some info below in a minute.
GF1,
I will be interested in your results with the Condor.
You made a good point yesterday that maybe I have not found the right pellet for the Dragonfly. I do not have as extensive an inventory of .177 pellets as I do .22 caliber.
I have tried the basic weights and shapes but maybe not the “best” pellet yet.
I plan on going through what I have shot and retesting some of the ones that showed some promise. I have done quite a bit of work on the barrel since I was testing pellets.
I made a spread sheet of all the pellets that PA sells in .177 and .22 with a column for each gun I test. I need to do a better job of keeping it up to date though.
I will check back in latter after testing some more pellets. My left pumping arm needs some exercise, it is getting almost as small as my right arm.
Don
And I forgot to mention that the number of pumps seems to make a big difference in the group size on my Dragonfly, at least for the Crosman Premier Lights. The testing can get very exhaustive If I need to try various number of pumps along with numerous pellets. My dragonfly did poorly on 4 pumps but my testing was not extensive so I don’t know if 3 or 5 pumps will be better than 4 every time.
I think I will restart a new velocity vs pump curve for the gun now that it is more broken in. Right off I would like to keep the velocity between 500 and 800 feet per second.
Don
Don
Yep got to try more pellets.
And I have seen accuracy change with amount of pumps used with some of my multi-pump guns.
And I’ll have some info below about the regulated Condor SS in a minute.
B.B.
You deffinetly showed the potental of this low cosr pcp. If I had not already filled that need with the Gauntlet I would be puting in an order. The lower fill pressure is an attractive feature because I use a hand pump. With this one I would not have to use my belly on the handle for the last few pumps to reach max fill.
Gerald
Gerald
Remember with the Gauntlet since it has a regulated bottle. You could fill to 2000 psi or even 1500 psi and still get around 15-20 good consistent shots.
That’s what’s nice about a regulated gun. You don’t have to fill the bottle to the high full bottle pressure to get consistent shots. So in reality your Gauntlet can be a 1500 psi gun.
GF1,
By my nature I have to get it near full. It would be like turning my garage air compressor down to shut off at 50psi bacause I’m only filling my truck tires. An item of interest I noticed when filling my Marauder pistol. I fill it inside where it is air conditioned then take it outside and let it settle in at the higher temperature. I see about a 100psi increase on the gage for a 12-15degree warm up.
Gerald
Gerald
Just say’n so people realize that a regulated gun don’t have to be filled to a certain working pressure like unregulated guns.
The regulated guns is like plug and play you fill to whatever you want. Well basically anywhere inbetween the max fill pressure of the bottle and the regulated pressure.
So if you didn’t feel like hand pumping one day to 3000 psi for some reason. You could fill to say 1300 psi and still get the same velocity as you would at 3000 psi.
That’s one benefit that regulated guns are good for.
Hey All,
Daisy BB gun Championships NEWS!
https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2018/7/12/young-shooters-bloom-at-2018-daisy-bb-gun-championships/
Some cool paint jobs on those BB guns!
Support your NRA! Join today for the youth programs if nothing else. That and youth are what will help keep our shooting heratige safe for generations to come.
shootski
Well got the Co2 adapter and 13 cubic inch 3000 psi bottle that’s regulated down to 1100 psi.
First thing is that I noticed is what Mr B. Was talking about. The valve top hat flow opening is exactly the same inside diameter on the Co2 adapter as the one on the bottle that came with the Condor SS. That’s what allows the air flow to the barrel. So that was a good thing so far.
Filled the bottle up to 1600 psi the first time and tryed to shoot but the power was extremely low. Found the top hat needed to be adjusted out about 2-1/2 turns. Now when I close the cocking breech it sets right on the top hat now. That’s how the original valve top hat was set on the bottle that came with the gun.
Now I did a couple shots and the gun came to life. I did some shots and it was hitting about 1-1/2 mildots low compared to the original bottle that came with the gun. I had the power wheel adjustment down on 6. Then went up to max pressure on the power wheel now the gun was shooting 1 mildot low.
Sighted the gun back at 1/2 mildot hold under at 50 yards. And it is accurate so far. But I did do some chrony shots just see how much power did go down. Took about 10 shots and it averaged out at 800 fps with around a 15 fps spread. It was shooting around 950 fps and around a 25 fps spread for 10 shots.
So basically the gun is shooting the same velocity as the .25 Talon SS I had. 800 fps with JSB 33.95 pellets.
Next I need to fill to 3000 psi and see how many shots it gets before it falls off the regulator. In otherwards it’s shot count. Today when I was shooting it fell off at 1000 psi. So not bad. I could probably shim up the regulator to get a higher working pressure and get some more fps. But I can live with 800 fps. And the Ninja bottles use shims and a regular coil spring for the regulator pressure. No bevel springs. So just add or take away shims to adjust working pressure.
I’ll post a picture tomorrow of the gun with the regulated bottle and Co2 adapter on it. Out of time tonight.
Here’s a picture of my Condor SS. Also I put the original bottle the gun came with in the picture so you can see that the legnth works out to be pretty close to the same for both bottles.
And I ended up making a spacer out of the butt piece from the small 13 cubic inch bottle I had. That way I could clamp the adjustable AirForce butt pad on the smaller diameter 13 cubic inch tank.
Legnth of pull is about a 1/8″ shorter with the Ninja bottle and AirForce Co2 adapter. But here’s the picture.
Gunfun1,
Thanks for the picture. Wonder how it will be on the accuracy?
Siraniko
Siraniko
So far good on accuracy. Just started like the original bottle that came with the Condor SS.
But what I’m see tonight after shooting is the Condor SS in .25 caliber likes air.
So far what has happened is I lost alot of fps, and the shot count improved only a little.
There might be more I can do though. First there is one small hole going through the Co2 valve to feed the top of the SoI can drill it out and add ao
Hit the post button accidentally.
So there is a hole going through the Co2 valve.
It’s small. So going to open it up and see what happens. And I want to make the regulated psi a bit higher in the bottle. So need to add shims there to raise the working pressure..
And who said changing air pressure wasn’t tunning a pcp. All I know is they all need some magic every once in a while. 😉
And maybe need a bigger volume bottle that’s regulated when it’s all said and done.
GF1,
From the picture it looks like you gave up a fair but of air volume to use the regulated bottle.
Gerald
Gerald
Yep lost alot of volume. And I tryed some 100 yard shooting this evening with it. Definitely can tell a difference with the 150 fps velocity loss. Need alot of hold over and lost alot of energy at the target. And that’s my main use for the gun.
So I ended up putting the original unregulated bottle it came with back on. For now anyway.
I’m going to see if I can get the flow up on the adapter and up the regulator pressure and try again. Want to get the velocity up some more first. If that works out then I’ll try a bigger volume bottle. We’ll see.
/blog/2018/07/beeman-qb-chief-precharged-pneumatic-rifle-part-6/
Greetings,
First post here.
I’ve had my Chief for about two months now. I’ve rigged it similarly to this blog article. By that I mean, with a UTG Bugbuster 4-16×44 30mm AO scope.
Presently it is mounted on high profile Dovetail 30mm ring mounts, because the medium mounts cause the scope to hit the rifle barrel when I apply the necessary shims.
I’ve also had a Winchester Daisy scope on the rifle, on medium mounts as well.
Shims?
With both scopes, I’ve run into an issue that the author of the article might have encountered as well, and that is when the mounts are left flat (not shimmed), I run out of vertical elevation room, in need of more upward range.
Yes, both scopes have had a need for shimming in order to gain upward elevation at 60’
At 60’, I was hitting a 9” target, but, was a couple of inches low of center with both brands of scopes. With the Winchester, I improvised by using a couple of layers of Gorilla tape on the rear mount to see if I was able to get back up higher on target, and have room for adjustments with the scope. It worked, but, I was called a redneck, and told to get the shim out.
I gave up on the Winchester Daisy scope, thinking I needed a better scope. So I got the UTG.
The UTG still comes up below target at the top of its adjustment as well. I’ve now shimmed it to gain upward mobility. This shim is multiple layers of aluminum duct tape folded over onto itself, and burnished flat.
To add to this legacy of shooting low, the stock open sights came in at a low 6 o’clock sighting as well.
I’ve had to go to the high profile mounts now, with the UTG, because the medium profile mounts (which also need shims), when shimmed, cause the scope to hit the barrel at the objective end.
I’m totally at a loss.
I suspected a bent barrel, and, contacted the repair/customer service manager, Peter, at Beeman.
I brought the rifle to Beeman in Santa Fe Springs (I live an hour or so away), and, Peter, their service guy, took me into his tech facility, and, we broke the gun down to its bare components multiple times over. We wondered about a bent barrel; nope, it proved straight. We literally had the barrel out, and removed from the rest of the breech mechanism, multiple times over.
He found an issue with my safety, and after not being able to fix that, he replaced the entire trigger mechanism, and, now the safety works far better than it did.
Peter and Beeman get an absolute rave review from me for their customer service – AAA+
To add to this elevation issue, I lose zero every time that I pump up.
Help me here, please.
My pump up routine is, as follows:
Lay rifle on carpeted floor, extremely carefully, on its side.
Fill w/ Hand pump
Pump to 2k-psi, disconnect.
I am extremely soft-handed when handling the rifle, as it seems to lose zero for no reason. I cannot be anymore gentle with it when I pump up; yet it loses sighting nearly every time.
Does this rifle need to be pumped up in some sort of rack, in a vertical (scope on top) orientation?
I understand that it might vary in its elevation when going through the entire range of air pressures. But, it also ranges in windage, left/right setting, requiring re-centering. That shouldn’t be effected by air pressure.
Is this due to the two mounting rings?
I should be able to set the rifle down without having to completely readjust every time, correct?
I realize this is a long first post. But, these are the issues that I’m facing, and could sure use some help. please and thanks
Moke,
Welcome to the blog.
No, the Beeman QB Chief is not sensitive to being handled when pumped. You should not need to use kid gloves like you describe.
Is the elevation on your scope set very high? If it is, that is the problem. At some point around the 3/4 elevation mark the erector tube inside the scope is loose and starts bouncing around with normal handling. Then the scope, not the rifle, cannot maintain a zero. Tell us about the elevation first before anything. This problem will affect both windage and elevation. The solution is pretty simple, if this is the problem.
B.B.
B.B.
I’m a bit of a neophyte with scopes.
My history with rifles, complete, has had me with a .22 Sears Roebuck rimfire single shot from the late 40/early 50’s. I’ve also had a Crosman 2100 Classic 10-pumper w/ iron sights for 20 years or so. Prior to that as a kid, a Crosman 760 multi-pumper.
My 2100 Classic, though it defines cheap, has devastated my rodent issue,.. ground squirrels. They now stay out of its range; enter the Beeman/UTG.
This Beeman Chief 1322/UTG is my first scoped combination.
The vertical elevation turret had hit its maximum point. On a 9″ target, I was hitting fully 2″+ below center.
To counter that, I added three folded layers of aluminum duct tape that I carefully folded onto itself, and then burnished flat.
Those three layers brought me to dead-center zero, but, still at the top of the turret adjustment to get there.
So, I added another four layer AL tape folded shim.
At this point, I am at 7 layers of shim at the rear.
I have no way to estimate how far into the turret adjustment I am, without totally scrambling the settings. But, I would have to think I’m within the upper 1/3 of vertical range on the turret settings.
My scope rings are UTG dovetail medium and high [profile, with the high profile presently mounted..
I also tried a Dovetail to Picatinny rail adaptor, to try to use the supplied rings that came with the scope. Same results.
Does this help with your question?
I’ve attached an image of this rig.
Moke,
Okay, this is excellent! You have discovered why your zero keeps changing.
The erector tube contains the crosshairs and the tube is under spring pressure. The adjustments work against the spring. Relaxing the spring by adjusting the elevation relaxes the spring to the point that the erector tube is no longer under tension and will (not can, but WILL) bounce around as the rifle is handled.
The fix for your problem is a scope ring set that has a lot of slope toward the front of the gun. There is way too much barrel droop (we call it that but it’s actually the barrel pointed down) to fix this with shims.
Now, a Bug Buster is not a scope that takes well to a drooper mount because there isn’t much scope for the rings to grab onto. I recommend that you call Pyramyd AIR and ask their tech department which scope mounts you need to correct a severe droop problem. There are many drooper mounts, but this problem is similar to one I had with a Diana 34 when I was working to design a dropper scope mount base. I had to bring the strike of the pellet up 21 inches at 20 yards!
B.B.
I’ve researched it a bit, and, I think I’m going to go with this dovetail to picatinny adaptor, and use the supplied with the scope medium profile rings.
/product/utg-drooper-scope-rail-11mm-to-weaver-adapter-compensates-for-droop?a=4191
I also looked at a RWS droop compensator, but, it seems a common concensus that the rings need to be stronger.
Does this UTG Drooper rail adaptor seem like a logical direction?
I’m tall, and have plenty of upward room to have a scope fit my eye height, without having to bend my neck 90º to look through a scope. So, I’m not so worried about a tall mounting height.
please, thanks, much gratitude for the help.
Moke,
I have had 2 of those on side lever springers and they work great. While it is nice to have good rings (4 screws per cap), with a PCP you should be able to get by with about anything. My springers did not droop. I just got them to help keep the elevation turret down.
Is the adapter you listed going to fit (without covering the loading port?)
Also, you should be able to drop ring height to a medium and maybe even a low,… with the extra height of a droop adapter. You get too high and you loose your ability to get a proper cheek weld.
On sight in,… I will do about a 30-40 yard zero and use holdover for further out. I do not adjust the turrets for different ranges. Try 30 yards for a start. You may not have droop, but you should not have had to run the elevation up that high for 60′,.. as you stated,.. or 20 yards.
That is some crazy droop and I am at a bit of a loss as to an answer for you.
A (very) straight edge across the dove tail and out over the barrel may be revealing. If it does show droop, it would appear that the barrel bore (what the barrel fits into),… is not bored parallel to the dovetail.
As for the scope,… get it re-centered. (VERY) carefully run it full up and full down, count the clicks and run it back to center of it’s adjustment range. (TIP: Back that turret base lock ring off more than what the manual says. B.B. taught me that. About 3/4 – 1 turn. It should feel somewhat loose and the turret will turn easier.) Assuming that the scope turrets have lock rings at their base.
**** Also, if you post on the (current) blog, everyone will see it. Very few people will ever see a new post on an older blog. I use the RSS Comments, so I see all of the new post no matter how old the blog. We go off topic all of the time,… believe me.
Keep us posted,… Chris,…. ohh,… and welcome too! 🙂
thank you, Chris
Cheek weld has been an issue with me, regardless. I’m tall, and have, as good description, a bit of a horse face; a long face. I’m always forced to bring the gun up to my eye level, by sticking the butt plate bottom high up on my collar bone. I’ve since removed the stock Chief butt plate, and made a straight drop down foam butt pad, to get better eye relief, and better interface with my shoulder.
When the scope sits high, it fits my face/eye level better. So, I’ve been building up a cheek pad, which is presently in the Ace Bandage hold it in place fitting mode, before going to leather. I shoot ambidextrous, and am doing both sides. My right side is my natural side; but my right eye is out of whack. So, often times, I shoot left, depending on circumstance.
120′ is pretty much my maximum shot. I have an acre, with the house near center. I have a backyard gallery that reaches 120′ with probably 60º width. To either side of that, I have two galleries that range about 40′; one just under, and the other right at that mark.
That is my backyard patio area.
Out front, I have a couple of reaches that range to 150′, but, it is sort of at the risk of bootleg shooting, as that crosses property lines It is at a large cut off tree trunk, its root ball dirt mound, and a large ground squirrel den. This is at the base of a sharply rising hill, with nothing around; a good backdrop.
That den is the motherlode, and base of this areas infestation, as it is at the edge of a macadamia nut farm that has gone feral. I see them running to and from it. So, I drop the occasional greeting out their way.
But, within my own property lines up front, I have a wide-angle 120′ gallery out there.
I sight to 60′, as I read that is a good measure, and can somehow correlate to the mil.dot specs? (unknowing rookie is I).
My typical shots run between 40′ -> 90′, but, there are occasions for extra length. So, 60′ makes sense for me, around here.
thanks again, Chris.
Moke,
All that is sounding good. I am 6’4″, so I can relate a bit. I value a gun with a cheek riser very highly.
I would (not) relate specific mil dots to specific ranges,.. initially. At 60′,… you should be dead on the cross hairs for sight in zero. Yes, shimming the scope and/or adjusting the turret will get you there. You must do that a bit. Maybe 1 turn up from turret center.
Using mil dots to shoot at different distances (comes later),.. after you have it zeroed at 60′.
I do admire your efforts to shim. Very innovative. On new scoping, I use an .011″ thick piece of toothpaste tube in the rear, at the bottom. Soft, forms and has some grip. I would not go past .011″ as you are risking bending the scope outer tube. Not good.
If you get the drooper mount, no shimming should be required at all.
It sounds as if you are on the right track. Keep us posted as things progress,…. Chris
In a followup question to the turret being max’d out vertically, and the tensioning issue,..
Is there a risk of this same tensioning phenomenon at the lower end of the adjustment range?
Moke,
Not a bit. At the lower end the spring inside the scope is fully compressed and suffers no damage.
The scope base you chose is the one I developed with Leapers for the Diana that had the drooping problem I told you about.
B.B.
Wow. Very nicely done.
I’m thinking this DT_to_Picatinny Drooper compensating rail might be my direction.
At this point, my frustration level is high, as is the wife, who I bamboozled into allowing this. So I hope this brings an end to this.
Moke,
I hope so, too. It should.
B.B.
Moke,
🙂 ,…. best of wishes on the wife. 😉 Regardless,.. you have landed yourself in a very good spot here on this blog. Anything you need to find out can be found out here and I think that you will find everyone here to be pretty good bunch. Respectful,…. no BS.
I personally have found my journey back into air guns a learning curve. Rest assured,.. this blog and the people here will get you from point “A”,.. to point “B” the quickest.
Chris
Moke,
I too would like to welcome you to this blog. And as Chris has stated, you are in very good company here. I hope to see more postings from you. The UTG drooper scope rail looks like a very good option. It is interesting that the Benjamin Chief has so much droop though. I have not heard of that being a problem from any of the users, other than you. Murphy’s Law showing up?
Also, as Chris advised, it is best to post your comments and questions in the current day’s blog where they will get more attention.
Geo
Greetings again friends,
Leapers Drooper mount arrived, and mounted.
I sighted the scope to a good zero. This drained a reservoir. THis has played out so many times, I cannot suggeest how many, but, I went to pump the reservoir back up. Almost invariably, this would cause the gun to lose zero, and I’d have to start all over again.
Not this time.
I went back out, and fired 5 more roun ds into an extremely tight pattern, and, it stayed zeroed.
So I took it live, and out to my long range shot, across over to the squirrel den on my neighbors property at the base of a giant Eucalyptus tree (giant dirt mound from the root ball). This shot is every bit of 175′, and if it measured out to 200′, I’d agree.
i had two shots at squirrels. I missed the first one, but, parted the hairs on the squirrels back in doing so. THe shot was so distant that the squirrel only paritally spooked, but stayed put. The second shot whacked it, and sent it flying towards this drainage pipe. I never found that one.
Then, I saw another, and, took aim,…
Moke,
Very nice and I am very happy for you that your frustrations now seem to be behind you. 157’+ (58 yards+) is a good shot.
What range did you zero at and how much hold over did you need to use (mil dots) for the 157’+?
Did you re-center the scope turrets or just put on the new mount and run the elevation down until you were sighted?
Chris
Don’t forget, in the future, post on the (current) blog and more people will see your comments. Hope to see more of you in the future 🙂
Hi Chris,
Sighting,…
I made a lead trap, because of the frequency of having to re-sight. It is a wood frame that is holding a piece of scrap steel at 45º, and deflects shots into a small Rubbermaid trashcan that it sits on.
I started out no more than 20′, to make sure I was hitting the target, and then moved out to my 60′ mark. I red somewhere, maybe here, that 60′ is a good air rifle sight-in depth.This is essentially shoooting across the patio.
I just kept adjusting until i was centered. All of the adjustments were downward, with some substantial turns at the beginning.
Hold over,…
At that range, it actually shot rather flat. My first shot came in a bit wide-right. So, I compensated about four clicks left, took aim at mid-body, at the center of the reticle, and hit exactly where I aimed.
My long range shot is actually from above, shooting downward. The target area might be as much as 15′ lower than the shooting position. So, I’m not sure if that would cause in difference in the “flatness” of the shot.
Stupid question,… not sure what the current blog is, or, where to find it. I found this thread in a Bing search of Beeman Chief and Scope.
Moke,
Just click on Home either at top left or bottom left of the page and that will bring you to the latest articles. Click on the comments and you can post almost anything you like. Just keep it within tolerance that family members can read and see.
Siraniko
Moke,
Here is the current blog.
/blog/
B.B.
and,…..
Moke,
No one has said anything but it may not be appropriate to post pictures of dispatched pests. B.B. monitors the blog and will usually tell us when something we post is a little too graphic for a family audience. It was a good shot though for 58 yards.
I do apologize.
Mods: If it is an inappropriate image, please delete.
Moke,
I looked at it right after you posted it. Normally we don’t show dead animals, but your picture is not offensive, so I left it up.
This blog is read by parents with their children and George is right that I monitor it very closely. We want parents to be able to show the blog to their family with no risk of upsetting anyone. If I receive complaints I will take it down, but so far no one has said anything.
B.B.
No worries…just wanted to make you aware. We know you are new here, as at one time we all were and had to conform a little as to what is appropriate for this particular blog. We are all family 🙂
Well, I need to offer a huge thanks to B.B., and all.
This compensating mount has made a huge difference. Though its still a bit early to declare a total victory, we are in unknown grounds at this point.
I like to maintain the air pressure above 1500lbs. So I was regulary pumping up, and, the action of laying the gun on its side would scramble the scope settings.
I’m at my third pump up now, and, the sighting has stayed dead steady; scary accurate.
Lets call my image posting above, what I consider to be the “nice tight grouping”.
With B.B.’s help in this thread, and with his droop compensating mount, that has allowed for three more nice tight groupings to occur in the last 36 hours or so; two days.
I’m new to scope shooting. My now early-experiences were as frustrating as possible to imagine. But now, it is whacking what it is pointed at with amazing accuracy. Without your help, B.B., I doubt I’d have ever figured the problem out. It is now scary accurate.
I’ll report back to this thread (to keep it on topic), should anything change drastically. Until then, many many thanks.
Moke,
Thanks for the feedback and I’m glad it’s working.
B.B.
BRAND NEW TO BLOG so this might be wrong place due to age of post but quick question re Chief. Got a new Chief ii and 4.50 per the tin H&N Barracudas will not load in the breech. JSB Exacts and junk Cabelas load and fire fine. I would never use the junk pellets, just testing load ability. Have you heard of any issues related to this pellet? Could the HNs be 4.52 maybe and that is cause? The HNs were the tightest groups in my Chief so I was excited to have an awesome tin of accuracy. In the ii they won’t load, I am NOT forcing with any pressure as other two pellets the bolt slips home like butter.
Hbdmax,
Welcome to the blog.
I can’t say and the Chief is no longer here for me to check.
Anybody?
BB
BRAND NEW TO BLOG so this might not be wrong place due to age of post but quick question re Chief. Got a new Chief ii and 4.50 per the tin H&N Barracudas will not load in the breech. JSN Exacts and junk Cabelas load and fire fine. Have you heard of any issues related to this pellet? Could the HNs be 4.52 maybe and that is cause?
Hbdmax,
You should post your question in the current day’s blog in order for more people to see it. There are only a very few of us that use the RSS comments to view new posts in older blogs. I’m sure you will get more replies if you do post in the current blog. You do not have to be on topic, many post comments and questions that have nothing to do with the topic of the blog, and B.B. is fine with doing that. Welcome to the blog too. 🙂
Geo