by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Air Venturi TR5
- Webley Nemesis pistol
- Ataman BP17 PCP bullpup
- Velocity Outdoors (Crosman and Benjamin)
- Crosman Triple Threat
- Ravin crossbows
- Ruger 10/22
We are still at the Air Venturi booth as we open today’s report, having just looked at the M1 Carbine. Let’s see what else they are showing.
Air Venturi TR5
The Air Venturi TR5 target rifle was shown and announced at the 2018 SHOT Show, but never made it to the dealer’s shelves last year. I was told we could expect it early in 2019. I think that means by April-May. That’s my fudge on their March stocking date.
The rifle will come in both the original black as well as a new bright green color that resembles the stock on the Umarex Embark more than a little! I asked if they were going to be targeting the SAR program and was told, “We’ll see.”
Tyler Patner holds the green stocked TR5 target rifle that he said is for parents who want something for their kids besides black.
Tyler told me the rifle is rated at 500 f.p.s. but is testing a little faster — up to 550. And it comes with adjustable open sights, but also has a muzzle piece with a dovetail for a target front sight and then an optional aperture rear sight can be used! And the forearm has an accessory rail underneath, so, despite the tactical look, this really is a little target rifle. Two of the same kind of 5-shot self-indexing magazines as the IZH61 had come with the rifle, and IZH61 mags will work, too. The adjustable buttstock has five different positions, plus the buttplate itself adjusts up and down for better fit. The new rifle will retail for $130, which is partly driven by the 2019 25 percent tariff increase on certain Chinese products.
The TR5 will now come in both black and green.
Webley Nemesis pistol
Next I saw the new Webley Nemesis CO2 pistol. Yes, the name has been recycled. This is a brand new airgun.
Webley’s new Nemesis is a CO2 repeater. Look at the slot for the bolt. You can put it on either side!
A CO2 pistol isn’t that different, but a repeater is. The Nemesis comes in either .177 or .22 caliber, with velocities of 450 and 400 f.p.s., respectively. According to the website it is slated to sell for $120. The magazine is a tandem switchable affair with a total of 14 shots in .177 and 12 in .22. After the first half have been shot, you flip the magazine around for the next half. A second magazine stores in the grip, with the piercing tool. A single-shot tray is included.
This view of the top shows the fiberoptic sights and the dovetails for optics. That new UTG Micro Reflex dot would be great here!
Ataman BP17 PCP bullpup
Bullpups come in all sizes, from the Hatsan Bully to the new Ataman BP17 that is the chihuahua of PCP bullpups. I have read Tyler’s reviews of the gun and was intrigued, to say the least.
The Ataman BP17 is little, yet in .22 caliber it pushes 820 f.p.s.!
This is a hunter’s airgun. Tyler showed me how easy it is to cock by flipping the sidelever with the left thumb (or right thumb for lefties). Yes, at $1400 it’s not cheap, but for an exterminator, hunter or pest eliminator it might be ideal.
The sidelever is right where your off hand rests. The thumb cocks the rifle and loads the next pellet without shifting grips!
Air Venturi is bringing out a new electronic target called Badabang. It consists of 4 steel paddles that react to being hit, and the whole thing fits neatly inside a steel case. The real news is this target is run by a smart phone app that and records the scores and tracks your data as you play.
The Badabang electronic target is scored by a smart phone app.
This target is scheduled to be available early this year (means a few more months) in its single user mode, but upgrades are in the works to allow two shooters to compete in the various games over their phones. So you can compete with a friend in another country, if you want. And upgrades to the app will allow the system to grow and morph as times passes! The possibilities are endless. There is already some talk about a rapid-fire competition at the Pyramyd Air Cup in August!
Velocity Outdoors (Crosman and Benjamin)
I’ve already shown you several new offerings from Crosman and Benjamin, but there are more that I saw in their booth at the show.
Crosman Triple Threat
New from Crosman in 2019 is the Crosman Triple Threat revolver. It’s the model 357 that we all know and love, only now it comes with three interchangeable rifled barrels — 3-inch, 6-inch and 8-inch. It has two cylinders to shoot either 10 pellets or 6 steel BBs. It shoots alloy pellets up to 465 f.p.s. and steel BBs to 425 f.p.s. I told their vice president of sales that this kit reminded me of the Dan Wesson Pistol Pac that was so popular several years ago. The suggested retail will be $69.95, which is a lot of gun for the money. It’s expected around the middle of the year.
Crosman’s marketing director, Sara Calgagno showed me the new Triple Threat revolver.
I know this is an airgun blog, but we have openly discussed the acquisition of Crosman by Velocity Outdoors. There are several other significant companies that are under the VO umbrella, including the Ravin crossbows.
You may remember when I reviewed the Sub-1 crossbow from Mission Archery last year. We were all stunned by the performance that can be gotten from a modern high-tech crossbow. Well, the Ravin is the other high-tech crossbow that the industry is talking about, and it is now a part of Velocity Outdoors.
Velocity Outdoors now owns the Ravin crossbows that are competing for the top tier among high-tech crossbows. Their 200-pound draw weight is cocked with just 12 pounds of effort, thanks to a built-in cranking mechanism! And, it launches a 400-grain bolt at 400 f.p.s.
Now that they own the company, Center Point, their archery company, can use the special Heli Coil technology that allows the bow limbs to be so close together. They can offer it in a bow that sells for a lot less money. Instead of $2000, you can get a lot of the same features in a bow for $800 and change.
On the other side of the Ravin display were the Center Point crossbows that can now use much of the same technology, yet sell for a lot less.
I tell you this to show that the Velocity Outdoors acquisition was a good thing. Crosman is still Crosman, but they are now under the umbrella of a much larger sporting goods corporation. The people in the company care about what they do and they still want to make great airguns.
I didn’t go to Media Day at the Range this year, which was where Umarex once again showed the Hammer big bore and let the media shoot it. The gun I shot at the 2018 Texas airgun show was the same one from a performance standpoint, but marketing manager Justin Biddle tells me that the guns at this SHOT Show are made with production tooling. He gave me an estimated release of March, but I would plan on a couple more months to be safe.
It wasn’t the Hammer that I went to see, though. I went to see their new licensed Ruger 10/22 pellet rifle! What it is, is a .177-caliber 10-shot repeating CO2 gun that has both a single action and double action trigger pull. I own a couple 10/22s and this is a dead ringer!
The new Ruger 10/22 pellet repeater from Umarex is a 10-shot CO2 repeater.
The rifle uses two 12-gram CO2 cartridges. You can shoot it as fast as you pull the trigger in the double action mode, or you can cock the bolt back manually and the trigger becomes a fine single-stage trigger that releases at about three pounds. The magazine looks just like a 10/22 mag and even releases and installs in the same way. It has open sights and an 11mm rail for scopes. This rifle will be perfect for the Badabang target from Air Venturi.
There is a LOT more to come, including some huge news from an unexpected quarter. And, for the first time in what seems like a very long time, I have been sworn to secrecy about an airgun that you’re gonna love. I know something you don’t know…
63 thoughts on “2019 SHOT Show: Part 3”
Very nice offerings. You should convince VO to market the triple threat with a pistol pack option.
The Badabing is intriguing, especially for competitive speed challenges.
But I think so far on today’s blog’s offerings, my money would go toward the TR5, then the Badabing.
Hopefully it’s accurate, if it is, it will quickly become a favorite of many shooters..
To those that have never shot the IZH 61, you really don’t know what you are missing..
I like the Triple Threat. That is a pretty unbelievable price for a gun that also includes 3 barrels to swap. The smart target is pretty cool too.
Good Day to you and to all,………. Chris
I think the big question for most of us is… will the 10/22 pellet rifle fit a 10/22 rimfire stock or chassis?
Now that would be interesting, I’m running Hogue aftermarket on mine and quite prefer them to the original Ruger stocks. That said, on second thought, unlikly as the C02 cartridges have to be provided for.
I’d hope they find some way to fit the CO2 cartridge in the rear of the receiver, since the main benefit of using the form factor of a common firearm is in the ability to take advantage of accessory availability. Without that, it becomes a lot more meh
You know I missed the boat on the Izh 61 and since 2018 shot show have had hopes the TR5 is as goo as i want a bug buster and dont think a person should need to spend for a 10m rifle in order to get one or have to get a pcp. I thought perhaps the Diana Chaser might be accurate enough oh well that was a bust. So ok the TR5 is coming and lets face it they hardly needed a lot of development you know why reinvent the wheel. What is important is the only thing in question barrel quality or more precisely bore quality. It certainly is the implication of the refined trigger and moderate power along with the ability of adding quality sights & a hamster rail . I prefer thinking of the color green as indicating its intended use as a bug buster, but that might just be me. If it is good enough i would like to say i would purchase another bug buster scope, but until they make a laser etched reticle model i am not buying any more.
On another note i am not a person who collects or even particularly likes pistols yet i have my p17 yet that Webley Nemisis caught my eye and i hope it is accurate.
Your thoughts reflect those of everyone here at the show. Let’s hope these guns are accurate!
A glass etched Bug Buster would be real nice. The big question is why not?
I see Leapers in a few hours. I will talk to them about that.
I would buy an etched glass bug buster, I still would rather not have it illuminated. I guess the illuminated reticle sells.
I spoke with them and you will get your wish. They asked me to please hold off reporting it until next week. I have a lot to tell you!
Awesome! I may end up with some more Bug Busters after all.
I understand and i never liked illuminated wire as at least on the older ones like the 6×32 bug buster it glows on every level, but on the laser etched hunting scopes on lower settings i have been able to make some predator shots that i could not have made without it being lit. That 36 color lighting system protrusion has presented me with another issue it gets in the way of mounting an IR system that mounts on rear of scope.
I emailed the suggestion a couple of years ago and also 2 or 3 months ago told them how much i liked the scopes they make. I told them how much i like the bug busters specifically for the 3yd close focus told them what i wanted and why. The response was telling me the product i wanted was and included a link for compact 4-16×44 scope with 10yd close focus. I responded informing them of my original request & why again, got zero response.
I think they have not done it for the same reason they don’t make a 10-40×56 or larger objective they just have to believe the market is out there for those products. I understand not doing the target scope, but as far as the bug buster scopes with the close focus to my knowledge they are it so if they don’t i have no other option.
I have several UTG scopes including a Compact SWAT and an older Bug Buster. Overall I have been quite satisfied with their scopes, I too want a finer reticle. Although I was tempted, I did not buy the new Bug Buster because of the wire reticle. I will just have to wait to see what they come out with next.
Here is a scope that I am very pleased with.
By itself it is not recommended for uber magnum sproingers, but I have one of these coming.
I am not crazy about UTG’s lighting controls, but still prefer them to the other ocular mounted systems. The one mounted on the side of the Hawke works nicely.
You won’t regret getting a wire until you have had an etched glass. Then,.. you will. Word to the wise. The extra coin is worth it.
I have etched glass scopes, including UTG. That is why I did not buy the new Bug Buster. Hopefully it will be offered in etched glass before I pick up another scope. Otherwise I will go with another Hawke.
I hope Air Venturi will give Tom a TR5 to review very soon. Though I’m not a decent break barrel shooter, maybe the lower velocity of this air rifle might help me? The 5 round magazine is a great feature also, though we are now post Gamo-Swarm, still a good feature. I am a fan of Crosman’s multi-pumpers with the 5 round magazine, though these have to be pushed by the shooter round by round, they work well.
As I have mentioned previously, I have always been drooling for a Lelya, but have never had the money when the opportunity offered itself to have one move in.
Her ugly cousin, the BP17 will soon be available and is promising to show us what she can do. From what I have seen so far, she is another hot little babe.
Maybe one of these ladies will be moving in to RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. We could use a little young blood around here. 😉
To listen to Tyler, the BP17 is one of those good cooks whose looks will grow on you pretty quick. She is also peanut-sized, for those longer woods walks.
What I find attractive about the BP17 is that it is a Bullpup that appears to be ambidextrous. The magazine seems to be recessed. I am impressed.
I would say that ambidexterity and compactness are its two most prominent qualities.
I wonder what she looks like under that black dress? 😉 Might have to make her a new outfit.
I saw his review and was really quite impressed with the performance. I would really like a good .22 PCP. Right now it is a toss up between this and the FX Dreamlite.
Really? I think that history, sales, service and reputation would put the Dreamlite at the top. Just me, but that would tip the scales in FX’s favor in a second. Just my 2 cents. I do not have an FX,… but well could have,….. so I can not speak with first hand knowledge of FX. I guess that I like a little bit of track record and reputation before plopping down the big bucks.
LOL! You may rest assured that before I am able to plop down the big bucks, both of these air rifles will have a track record.
The truth is I really want an Edgun Lelya and have for many years. This is why the BP17 is appealing to me. Whenever it does happen, it may be none of the above. We’ll see then. 😉
Somewhere along the way,…. a bull pup design must have made quite the impression on you. Never held one. Maybe I would like it. Maybe not. Why the Edgun Lelya? I did look it up. Most web links were “?” per Norton. I did watch a video, just to get an idea of what it is. So why? Why is that the Holy Grail of your air gun desires?
It was not the bull pup design that made the impression on me, it was the Lelya. She is a slim, light and petite air rifle that fits in close. The build quality, performance and appearance is top shelf. You will very rarely ever see a used one for sale and when you do, it is not for long. They are for sale at Edgun West and Edgun has a YouTube channel.
The BP17 is of similar size, weight and operation. Get rid of that black dress and she might be pretty.
I’ll take a good look at the Badabang, too. I hope theres a slightly wider version that incorporates a fifth paddle. The BP17 looks pretty interesting, too. Enjoy your trip.
I thought the Badabang was for younger shooters at first. Now I’m thinking it might become a permanent resident with me. What a great way to test action air pistols! And for the BB guns, use Dust Devils or lead balls.
If only poor little Ralphie had had Dust Devils! He wouldn’t have broken his glasses.
That could be accomplished with software since it feeds data to a smartphone…even doable with a single paddle!
Wow! This is some SHOT Show. The Badabang looks great, but I went back to a flip phone a few years ago. Maybe I should go back to a smart phone. I will if I get a Badabang.
The Webley Nemesis (CO2 model) didn’t impress me until this morning. That looks very nice. And the Triple Threat is definitely on my radar as well. It looks like a cross between two Crosman classics of its golden age, the 357 Six / 357 Four and the 38T / 38C. Very nice.
Thanks for the peeks into the SHOT show B.B., everyone seems to be bringing interesting things to the table.
Personally, I liked TR5 form Air Venturi. Assuming it is accurate, it looks like it would make for a nice gun to teach good shooting practices to young ones. And to reduce the feral can population, of course.
I also find interesting the Badabang, it looks like it could find its way to my home.
Intrigued about the mystery airgun – any hints? Caliber? ETA?
No hints. 🙂
Hi bearded BB,
I am happy to see the TR5. I love my old IZH60. I think it is the best airgun I have seen for kids to learn to shoot with. I like how it separates the cocking and loading operations which is safer for kids. With my two girls, I tried open sights, red dots, scopes, everything I could come up with. The one that clicked with both of my girls was apertures both front and back. I wish that they had made the TR5 a single shot. I think it is best for kids.
I like the single shot version as well. But we are in the minority, I think.
I saw you do a cameo appearance with Airgun Depot at the Umarex booth. Do you think you will get one of their new underlevers to try out?
I hope so.
DavidEnoch, I’m sorry I didn’t pick up an IZH60 or 61 when they were available.
I agree that the IZH60 and 61 are the best airguns for teaching kids to shoot.
The low power, safe and easy cocking, light weight, low noise, lovely trigger, great accuracy and adjustable length of pull make these guns ideal for beginners of all ages.
The IZH60 maybe has a slight edge in the accuracy stakes, but the IZH61 has the advantage of kids not having to touch lead when loading pellets.
I put a red dot on mine some time back and my 8 year old was soon bowling over soda cans at 30 yards.
She found the red dot much easier to use than either the open sights or a Bugbuster 3-9×32. I have yet to let her try it with a peep sight. That’s an idea for the summer.
When you started talking about that Crosman Triple Threat, I immediately also thought of the Dan Wesson pistol. We do think alike in many areas. Is that scary or are we identical sons from different mothers?
Fred formerly of the DPRoNJ now Happily in GA
My first handgun was a Dan Wesson Model 15-6. I later picked up another barrel or two. That was a .357 magnum. I was just 21 years old. I’m now 65. I shot that thin a lot, all with hand loaded ammunition. I was a very good hand loader by the time I was 14, as taught by, and supervised by, my dad. That handgun was used in self defense (no shots fired) in a home invasion about 11:00 PM on November 1st, 1976, Why do I still remember the date? It was the night of my 22nd birthday. That old 15-2 eventually wore out.
Wow! I don’t think I ever heard of anyone wearing out a Dan Wesson revolver!
You know it’s funny, because the guy I talked to had never heard of that. He just thought a three-barreled set would be nice.
Now I can usually find some good in any airgun but for the life of me I can’t see why anyone would combine the looks of a semiauto pistol with a bolt action. Unless of course you were looking for something that would make it into Ripley’s believe it or not book.
OK like I said the benefits may be in having a place for optics and such but surely they could have designed a bolt action pistol to incorporate that. What is the point in designing features found on a semiauto. Surprised they left off an exposed hammer.
Perhaps I got up on the wrong side of the bed today but the thing that set me off was reading on another web site that the M1 Carbine air rifle was manufactured by Springfield Armory. Was it shipped directly from their manufacturing facility there in Taiwan ? Do they have a company there ? Of course not.
Licensing your trade mark does not entitle you to claim you manufactured it and mislead the public. It may just be distributers that make these claims, but I for one do not like being misled into believing I am purchasing something I am not getting. Even if it’s officially subcontracted to a foreign manufacturer.
It may be the way things get done these days with our global economy but lets cut the bull.
Or … could this be one of those ever elusive full auto bolt action guns the press keep talking about ??
One more thing. The Crosman Triple Threat, it claims to have a “Full metal frame” and under material it has “Full metal” . Are those three interchangeable external barrels that appear to have half of the frame attached to them made of composition plastic? It sure looks like it in the picture.
If it is we have another example of the public being misled. If not it’s one heck of a deal.
The one in the back seems more evenly colored,… so maybe some camera flash at work? I think mock ups of future working models is not uncommon either at shows. Mock up or not, I would think that you would want the display models to be spot on and perfect. Like you said,… if it all pans out, is solid and looks good,…. then it would be a no-brainer buy in the revolver Co2 market. Heck,… that is Wally World price point territory.
More than likely the flash did expose the plastic. Look closely at the P/A picture in new items. 99% sure the barrel assemblies are not metal.
But you know what there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
As airgun enthusiasts we are always looking for the next best perfectly engineered airgun to fill our desire and the shot show is like airgun nirvana. We expect to see an outstanding, must have, airgun at every turn, forgetting they don’t make airguns just for us.
The Triple Threat was probably made for young people who just want a nice airgun they can afford and have fun with. Big box customers. Companies don’t just make them for dedicated airgunners.
They need to make money too.
No, I’m ‘not’ disappointed with the revolver, it’s the misleading presentation that tic’s me off. Don’t tell me an airgun is made by a US company or that it’s made of metal when it’s not. I have enough misleading information from politicians and the news.
A Sig semiauto M17 pistol with MADE IN JAPAN etched on the side is a bit disappointing for someone expecting German engineering even if it is just as good or made to their specs. Just don’t mislead us “Shoots like a Sig because it is a Sig” … only it’s made in Japan. I know those days are over for them and I congratulate them for that but it was just an example.
I know many guns are licensed to be manufactured elsewhere but they are often required to be called something else, P08, Luger, and are usually identified with markings but it’s no big secret.
Sold, and or, trademarked by a US company, OK. Manufactured overseas, OK. Mostly or half metal OK. Just don’t try to cover it up.
I agree on the general topic of misleading. I did go to the PA site. Pretty good pics there. Whatever the barrel/front is made of,.. I think that they should have made the finish on the frame and the finish on the front the same. It appears that if plastic, there is a steel barrel insert encased from the description.
I wonder how that top latches/secures and what is involved in removing the barrel/front at the pivot point? The 2 points look fragile.
I think I can see a spring loaded ball retainer sticking out of the lower pin and the top would have to be some sort of square latch to keep it aligned. Could be a sliding latch. Noticed a small block sticking out on top of the receiver.. I don’t think it was made to be a serious target pistol.
The Badabang looks very interesting as a target solution. More complicated than dirt clods, but I hope it may have a future. Its portable, software driven, requires sensors. Impact energy can be measured? Shot placement tracking?It needs a carrying handle, and maybe an onboard light. Neato!
We’ve come a ways from Lawn Darts and Super Elastic Bubble Plastic! The Frisbee made it..
I still have my set of Jarts with the original box. They were a lot of fun, and much safer than horseshoes, unless the pits are clay.
The BP17 if moneys no object. I would put the Prod down for a try with that one.
Is the TR5 an unlicensed Chinese made knockoff of the Baikal/ IZH MP61 then?
I wonder if the TR5 has a hammer-forged barrel and excellent adjustable trigger like the Russian gun.
Does the embargo on importation of Russian guns to the US apply only to distributors importing directly from Russia, or are individuals also banned from importing them from stockists in Europe?
Oh, yes. The importation of a banned item is prohibited regardless of where you get it. Otherwise it really can’t be banned.
A buddy of mine from years ago used to go to Cuba on vacation all the time in the 1980s and 1990s. From Chicago to Toronto to Cuba. But you are right. He couldn’t bring cigars back.
On the Webley Nemesis is that trigger finger groove at all comfortable? I keep looking at the two photographs and wondering how that can equate to a good hold; notice the low hold and gap between the beavertail and the web between thumb and (Triggerfinger) index finger?
Late to the party…but the TR5 is on the want now list. I got an Embark, and it is fine, not good. If the trigger didn’t suck it would be great. Sorry I missed out on the Izzy.
It’s my understanding that the Umarex 1022 is drilled and tapped on top of the receiver exactly as the Ruger is and will accept the dovetail rail meant for the firearm, but it won’t be included with the gun. It will, instead be fitted with the flip up sights like the Ruger is supplied with.
The comparisons that are being made between the Triple Threat and the Dan Wesson guns is not really accurate. I’m pretty sure the Wesson guns have a over-barrel and a liner that threads into the frame. The cylinder gap is set as the barrel is screwed in and then the muzzle end of the barrel gets a nut screwed onto it that tensions it between the over-barrel and the frame. It looks like the Triple Threat just sticks a new barrel onto the Webly-ish hinge pin. As for whether the barrels are encased in plastic or not, it’s anyone’s guess. It looks identical to the basic action that has been around since ’82. I own one from 1984 that has a 8 ” barrel and it is all metal. I’m repairing my sister-in-laws 357 from 1992 and it has a plastic over-molded barrel. Her’s is only 6″ so that may have been the norm all along for the shorter barrels, I don’t really know. My guess is that early on Crosman found out that the plastic barrel was cheaper and good enough and that is what the Triple Threat will be equipped with.
Daisy’s Powerline 44 from the mid 80s, I think, is actually much more like the Dan Wesson gun. Mine came with a blow formed plastic attache case that has a place for the 4″, 6″,and 8″ barrels and their over barrels as well as a 5 pack of CO2 carts and a belt pack of Quicksilver pellets. It also held the gauge block for setting the cylinder gap and the spanner wrench that locked everything down, once adjusted. I think it also came as a limited edition chrome called a 144.
You didn’t actually say what type of power plant the TR5 has. I take it from the comments and the comparison to the IZH that it is a spring piston gun, but for the life of me I can’t tell from the photos whether it is a break barrel or a side or under lever. I’m not familiar with the “IZZY” It looks very odd to me. It appears to have some sort of a folding stock which is surprising in a target rifle.
The TR5 is a spring-piston rifle that cocks via a sidelever. When I put the link in the article I expect readers to go to the description to find out more about the gun.
Are the Triple Threat’s barrels encased in plastic? Well, from the photo and the price I would say that they must be. That way a thinner barrel will have the support that it needs.
I didn’t know that Daisy put out a pistol pac! Thanks for that.
I wasn’t expecting these guns to be on the site yet so I must have overlooked the link. I see now how it works. Do you think it is actually a copy of the IZH that everyone raves about?
Here’s a pic of the Daisy 44.
It’s as close a copy as I can tell. I won’t know for certain until I test it.
BTW, I seem to recall that I got the 4″ and 6″ barrels in the kit. The 8″ was a separate purchase. The case will accommodate any barrel mounted to the gun and only one of the other two in the blow molded cut out. All of the barrels are rifled and the sights are really good and fully adjustable, but the gun is not particularly accurate with the few pellets that I shot from it back in the day. It may be worth another look, though. I have many more pellets to choose from now. Everything is metal and, if you look at the over-barrel in the lower right corner pic,you can see just how thick the casting is. Hard telling what they would have to charge for a gun built this way today.