by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Air Venturi TR5 repeating pellet rifle.
This report covers:
- TR5 is a close copy of the IZH-61
- Discovering the IZH-60
- We bought them like hotcakes
- The rifles
- Accuracy!
- Politics
- TR5
- The magazines
- Read the manual
- Importance of the TR5
- Summary
TR5 is a close copy of the IZH-61
Today I start the report on the Air Venturi TR5 Multi-Shot Target Air Rifle. This rifle is a close copy of the IZH-61 repeater that no longer can be legally imported into this country. So, a little background is in order.
The IZH-61 that cannot be imported into the U.S. any longer is a unique repeating sidelever youth pellet rifle.
I have reported on the IZH -60 and -61 many times in the past.
IZH-61 Sight Options
IZH-61 magazine test
Mac tests an IZH 61 with metal clips
IZH-61 — Part 4 New gun – Now we’re cookin’!
IZH-61 – Sight options
IZH-60 Target Pro air rifle
Discovering the IZH-60
That’s a lot of multi-part reports! You need to know the background. In the 1990s when Pyramyd AIR was getting started, they began importing the IZH-60 (single shot) and -61 (repeater) from Russia. It didn’t hurt that the founder of Pyramyd AIR, Joshua Ungier, had spent his childhood years in the Soviet Union and was familiar with both the languages and customs. Josh owned Pyramyd Stone, and imported decorative stone for architectural projects as well as colored gemstones — both of which took him into the Soviet Union and later, Russia and some of the former Soviet provinces, on buying trips. One time while there he saw a strange little airgun at the Tashkent International Airport. It was the IZH-60.
In Moscow, on his way home, he saw another IZH-60 in a department store and was permitted to examine it. He though it might sell well in the U.S. He also learned that the store carried no American airguns like Crosman and Daisy. Josh is always one to spot a business opportunity. Okay, I will now cut to the chase, but if you like this story, be sure to read the 5-part report, How and when PA got started.
We bought them like hotcakes
When the rifles first showed up in the Pyramyd catalog (it was paper back then) everyone was intrigued — especially me because I wrote the monthly newsletter, The Airgun Letter. I bought one to test and started spreading the word. These airguns were cheap in those days — well under a hundred dollars, so people didn’t buy just one — they bought them five and ten at a time. I remember my friend Mac bought more than 30 over the years and gave them away to friends and the children of friends. The single shot 60 came first (I still like it best) and was followed by the 61 later on. Let me tell you something about the rifles now.
The rifles
Except for the repeating feature of the 61, the two rifles are virtually identical. They are small spring-piston air rifles in .177 caliber, only. They cock with a long sidelever on the right side. I don’t think they were ever made for lefties. The Soviet Union didn’t work that way. For their Army battle tanks they selected crew members based on their overall height (Soviet tank turrets have very little space inside and they have low ceilings). When you have as many people as they did you pick the men to fit the equipment — not the other way around.
And the IZH-60/61 was made to be an informal target rifle for kids. So it is easy to cock and has a hammer-forged barrel that the Soviets got right — as they usually do with guns. The sights were open, but the front post was hooded and the rear sight came with a metal plate that screwed over the rear notch to present a peephole to the shooter. It was located too far forward, but an 11mm dovetail on top of the receiver allowed it to be repositioned closer to your eye.
Attach the metal plate to the IZH-61rear sight and it becomes a peep sight.
Accuracy!
The accuracy of the little gun was quite good. Some of them were even better than good. As a result, people started turning them into full-fledged formal target rifles. I remember a guy I wrote about who had installed an Anschütz target front and rear sight worth about $500 on his $90 (at the time) rifle. He shot matches with it. And that was the real story of the little IZH rifle. It was accurate.
Politics
In retaliation to Russian politics and international aggression a few years ago the U. S. imposed economic sanctions on certain classes of goods, and airguns fell into one of those classes. When that happened the IZH rifles and the IZH-46M target pistol could no longer legally be imported into this country. Those airguns are still being made and sold elsewhere, just not in the U.S.
That left a huge hole in the supply of good and affordable smaller target rifles and pistols that are available in this country. Air Venturi started looking for alternate sources of supply. The TR5 is the fruit of that effort.
TR5
The TR5 is meant to emulate the best features of the IZH-61 rifle, while adding a few innovations of its own. It’s made in China and has a slightly different appearance than the IZH, but that was done to make the rifle more ergonomic. In all about 30 changes were made to the new rifle. Many were things Air Venturi had been asking the Russian manufacturer to do for years. Only a few of these changes are things that most shooters will recognize.
1. Improved Stock Adjustability: The length of pull can be altered with an AR15-style adjustment that is very easy to use. It adjusts to one of 5 positions. The pull ranges from 12.5- to almost 15-inches. The buttpad also adjusts vertically and has a soft, grippy rubber buttpad — two features the IZH-61 did not have.
2. There is a UIT accessory rail in the bottom of the forearm — the same as you would find on any of the high-end 10-meter guns. This can be used for slings, hand-stops, bipods, etc. It makes a nice option for an entry-level 3-position or 10-meter gun.
3. Improved Trigger Adjustability. The IZH had a trigger that was adjustable for length of pull only. The TR5 has a two-stage adjustable trigger. From just taking a few shots on the rifle straight out of the box I can tell you that the first stage is present but is quite short and there is some movement but no creep (uneven starting and stopping) in stage two. I will see if I can adjust it to be crisper, but it isn’t bad right now.
4. Velocity: The IZH was rated at 490 fps. Pyramyd AIR rates the TR5 at 500fps with 7 grain pellets, but most of the guns they’ve tested are shooting in the 525 range. That being said, it is still acceptable for them to be shooting in the high 400s. I will test this one for you of course, but the next report will probably still deal with the introduction to the rifle, since there is so much ground to cover.
5. Magazines: The gun comes with two 5-shot mags. They index automatically, and are very easy to load. Sadly, IZH mags (at least right now) are not compatible. If you have some left over you can remove about 0.015-inches off the bottom (when the ridges are at the top and the taller end is on the left).
6. And there is a green stock option! Air Venturi asked for this. The green stock is there as an option to make the gun less threatening to parents. With the semi-tactical look of the gun, this non-threatening color could prove to be a popular option for those purchasing the gun for a junior shooter.
The rifle no longer comes with a peep sight attachment for the rear sight. But it does have a grooved receiver to accept a target sight. And that is among the things I will be testing.
Pyramyd AIR told me to expect this rifle to be accurate. It was not selected especially for me. They just have confidence that all of their rifles will be accurate. I plan to test that extensively.
The magazines
I’ve loaded both magazines to see how they work and all pellets are loose in both of them. They fell out as I loaded the magazine into the rifle. My solution is to lay the mag on a flat surface and press the pellets in as deep as they will go with a ballpoint pen. It works and they don’t fall out after that. If there were two plastic ridges inside each pellet chamber that ran the length of the chamber, the pellets would probably remain in when loaded.
Read the manual
The TR5 probably does not operate exactly how you think it should. My advice is to read the manual that is well-written. The photographs, however, are very dark and it’s difficult to see some details, so have the rifle to examine as you read.
Importance of the TR5
Reader Matt61 owns an IZH-61 that he has shot over 100,000 times. I expect to hear from him while I test this airgun. I know that many readers own one or more of the Russian rifles, and I expect to hear from them as well.
Summary
That’s it for today, but there’s a lot more coming on this air rifle. This is one that will be an instant classic if it’s accurate. We have waited a long time for this one!
Several years ago, I had a 61, and loved plinking in the back yard with it.
It was extremely accurate, and well built. Nothing ever went wrong with it, it just ran, and ran.
I brought a few airguns to a friends son’s birthday party, Its theme was shooting, as his dad was a avid hunter and shooter and the boy was following in his footsteps.
The youngsters shot thousands of airsoft rounds from both electric and gas blow back air soft guns,
and had loads of fun shooting hanging tin cans with the pellet guns i had brought to the party.
The izh was very popular with the youngsters as they could cock it with no help, just supervision.
After the party, I gave him the 61.
He was so happy..
I don’t regret giving the rifle away, but I do regret not having a second one in the closet for me to keep.
When I saw this announced a while back, I promised myself if its accurate, I would have one.
B.B.
It saddens me what the best airgun for the USA Junior Rifle High School Shooting Team and the NRA are just Russian fronts.
Wish I could import one of their pistol though…
-Y
Yogi,
My Izzy is an awesome pistol. It is very well made and shoot way better than I can. They are most definitely worth owning. With a modicum of care it will last for generations.
I have been seeing them for sale every once in a while in the various classifieds. Mine has almost doubled in value since I bought it.
So they made improvements but couldn’t bother with the clip? I suppose sitting at a table or bench that’s not a deal breaker and fine for getting zero. They did not bother so i don’t think i will.
BB
We’ll glad you did this report today. My TR5 will be here today. I’ll hold back on commenting on accuracy till you get to that part.
And got to ask since I don’t have mine yet. How was it packaged?
And just got say. Can’t wait to get mine and shoot it. I’m thinking these are going to be nice little guns.
GF1,
It’s in a brown box with styro inserts. It’s a good package, but nothing flashy.
B.B.
BB
Thanks and how does it look construction wise. Does it seem like a solid built gun or does it feel cheap. Like when the gun is cocked do the linkages feel loose and wiggle or do they feel like a precise fit?
Lucky you! My green one won’t be here till later this week. At least it’s coming from Utah.
Edw
But at least we got ours coming. Lucky me and you. 🙂
Wonder what serial number we will have?
It’s gotta be low. Did you go green or black? Also any idea where you can find UIT rail accessories? All I could find was a 60$ Weaver adapter.
Edw
Yep on the serial number.
And I got black. But I have no problem with the green. I actually like the color green. And makes me think old military for some reason when I see green. So yes if the gun works out. For the price I may end up with a green one too for when my daughter comes over and they want to plink.
And haven’t got that far yet. I’m sure you do some searching you can find the rail accessories. If you do post some links if possible.
GF1,
I’ve only been able to find a 60$ adapter and a 10$ harris sling stud adapter. I ordered the sling adapter and a 20$ bipod. I’ll let you know next week how they work.
Edw
Ok good. Will be waiting to hear.
Works good. Now I’m going to take it all apart and scope it.
Edw
I like it. I have mine scoped already. I put a little Optima fixed ao 3-9 mag scope I got that came on a Hatsan .25 caliber air ram break barrel.
I like my TR5. So far so good. I have been doing alot of testing with it. I’ll tell more as BB does more reports on the one he’s reporting on.
Let us know how you like yours with the scope on it.
I got a scope on. I used 3 .005 shims on the back to get it on paper at 10yds. It is a bugbuster with an offset mount.
Image didn’t make it the first go.
Edw
I shimmed the scope on my TR5 too.
I got more to say later.
Right now I’ll say that I’m at center on my elevation and windage adjustment with my scope mounting..
I have a low end scope on it and it’s still making the gun work.
No regrets yet.
Nice! I’ve got a solid droop going now too. I’ll hold off on the accuracy reports for a bit too…but there is a surprise under the front sight:
Once again…
Edw
Very nice surprise!!
I was going to take the front sight off too just to get it out of the way of the scope picture. (Trying to get accuracy any way I can) Don’t want to see anything in my scope picture. My front sight is tight on my gun. Even after loosening the set screw on the front sight.
How did you get your front sight off?
I removed the set screw and used a heatgun. Low speed high heat for about 10 minutes always moving it. it slid right off with a wiggle motion. Wipe it immediately, I had to reheat because glue residue cooled and I wasn’t ready.
Don’t hold the globe if you want to use it again, mine was very soft when things got warm enough.
Edw
Ok great.
I thought that. Boy oh boy they wanted that front sight to stay in place didn’t they.
Thank you. My front sight is coming off tomorrow..
And maybe I need to get a nice globe and peep on this gun after learning your secret.
Thanks again.
🙂
🙂 I know right. I removed it to clean it up, but I’m thinking of putting one of my spare Diana sets on it.
Gunfun,
I like it that the front sight is attached that well. I’ve had a crosman or two front sight just come off before. Had to reglue them. Maybe it’s a good sign of quality?
Doc
Edw
Well that means Weirauch front globes should work too. And some of the aftermarket front sight dovetail stuff.
Again good find.
The Weirauch front sites have a lot of nice factory inserts
Edw
I took my front sight off today.
From what mine looks like I don’t think it was glued. I didn’t have to wipe anything off.
I think they made the front sight a pressed fit. From what I see with mine anyway.
Either way glad I got it off. And thanks for the heat gun suggestion.
And had a good calm day today shoot’n finally. Had a good time with the TR5 today.
Glad it worked! Mine was definitely glued. Can you find a serial number on yours?
Edw
Haven’t taken the stock off yet. But no don’t see a serial number yet.
If you find it let me know.
So this happened tonight:
Edw,
Did you find the serial number? We’re you looking for something else? Did something happen causing you to do the disassembly?
Siraniko
I didn’t find the serial number. I managed to double feed a pellet, and it didn’t want to come out. So I set to take the barell off. There are 5 set screws holding it on BTW. Once I had that figured out I figured I might as well finish the deed so I could polish everything and see how the guts looked. Piston seal is pristine, and they didn’t over lube it at the factory. I’m going to put it back together with a few .005′ SS washers at each end of the spring and spring guide because those areas cant be polished or are plastic.
Edw
Did you find a serial number.
And can you post a picture of just the barrel.
How does the barrel attach and does the barrel have a transfer port hole in it?
I think you may know where I’m going. Mine just might get a different barrel and main spring.
I think the barrel might be about 6″ too long myself. To take it off remove the three screws in the UIT rail, remove the rear sight and screws completely, remove the screw on the top of the receiver, and there is a grub screw on the bottom of the receiver that is way in there. then the barrel will slide right out with a gentle pull, no transfer port. it is just two o-rings like a fill probe, but with no transfer port.
Getting the piston out was easy too. the pin on the stock length adjuster goes, Then there is a bit of pre-load on the spring, I’d clamp it to be safe, then take off the circlip, and pop the pin.
Edw
We are running out of room here for replies.
I’m going to the very bottom to make a new comment. Go down there to see.
B.B.,
Nice report today. I had little to no instruction as a youngster. Common sense did prevail at any rate. Thank heavens for this site. After some learnin’,…. I turned out to be a decent shot with a fair bit an idea of what I was actually doing. 😉
Ed,
They went to the trouble of dovetailing the barrel and the front sight and yet STILL glued it on!? I do not even know what to say to that,….. other than, STOP it!
Good Evening to one and all,………. Chris
Chris
Really more than you think.
Going farther. The gun is stacking up to be really nice.
I’m waiting for BB to get to the accuracy report. But found out that something BB suggested is more important than he thought when he mentioned it.
It turned the gun into a night and day difference. Let’s see what BB says. But I’m really liking this gun.
GF1,
Glad you are liking it. On B.B., I think he under mentions, more than he over mentions.
He gets you interested and if you show some interest,… he will/can/could bury you,…. while at the same time, not.
It will be interesting to see how you, Ed’s and B.B.’s test all stack up to each other.
Chris
Chris
No a thing that BB mentioned about this gun is important.
You will see as time goes and BB might not even see it yet.
Very interested in this one. By the time I decided I wanted a 61, they were gone. Let us know about yours here Gunfun1, if you wouldn’t mind.
Birdmove
Read more below. And there’s more to come.
Waiting to see how BB’s TR5 does.
An interesting history. I thought the Ataman line was Russian, but I am obviously wrong on that. I must say that I like the original looks better, but LOP adjustability is always a good thing. Very Ray-Beam space age theme going on.
It would be treat to hear from Matt61 again.
Good Day to one and all,……… Chris
I suspect the then admins policy of “change” when it comes to gun “culture” had much to do with the Baikal/IZH ban as a manufacture. Edguns and others seem to have had no disruption, only makers of “firearms”…
I think the deal is that IZH also makes firearms for the Russian military.
Hello,
Izhevsky Mekhanichesky Zavod (IMZ, aka IZH) is the factory that is under sanctions, and not all Russian made airguns. Hence you can see Ataman is available in the USA.
Thanks
Val
Chris U,
Matt61 talked about a writing a book and going to Russia? It would be good to hear from him.
Don
Hello,
Izhevsky Mekhanichesky Zavod (IMZ, aka IZH) is the factory that is under sanctions, and not all Russian made airguns. Hence you can see Ataman is available in the USA.
Thanks
Val
Val,
Thanks for that clarification.
B.B.
B.B.,
This sounds like another rifle that can be used in the Student Air Rifle Program. Especially with the green stock installed. Maybe you should get some SAR Journey pellets alongside the Sig Ballistic Match Alloy pellets for testing? I hope the rear sight is refined enough that it can be used. Not in your description yet but since you didn’t mention it I suppose there are no fiber optic elements present.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
That thought did occur to me, also. I will try the Journey pellets.
B.B.
BB,
I do so wish I had picked up a 60 when I had the chance.. Ah well, if wishes were fishes…
The magazine issue may be a little problematic. When you load the magazine with a pen, will any of the pellets fall out when you shake it? If this thing catches on, this could be a good aftermarket product for someone with a 3D printer. Make a magazine with a groove in each pellet slot that will accept an o ring to hold the pellet in place.
RR,
When the mag is loaded with a pen, the pellets do not shake out.
B.B.
But now we need to see if one mag to the next is the same when loading pellets.
I will let all know when I get mine.
And it might be certian pellets also.
I’m sure more to come on this subject of pellet loading.
B.B.
The loading method that good ol’ Paul Capello taught us in his video of the IZH 61 (that used to be on the PA website) was to hold the gun vertically, with the muzzle pointing down, then insert the magazine. The pellets don’t fall out.
Will S.
Good point also. Plus safety involved when done that way.
I’ll remember that with mine if I have problems with the pellets falling out.
Nice! I was hoping this would get a review. Mine in green shipped today, and should be here in a couple days.
Thanks to Tom and Pyramyd I can log on again!!! Thank you!
Fodo3030
O.K. This is off subject.
I am a little nervous about posting here, of when to post “off subject” and appropriateness, i.e. has the subject been covered before or is the subject a moot point or does it matter.
O.K. here goes:
Has anybody (Consumers/manufacturers, etc.) seen or done any testing of barrel fouling requiring more often cleaning or wearing out of barrels faster, etc. with non-lead ammo? Or any gut feelings on this?
Fouling meaning build up of material to require cleaning to keep accuracy.
i.e. Copper, copper plated, tin, steel, iron composite (dust devils; acting like sand paper, probably too new to have any info.), ballistic alloy, bb in tip of pellet, polymer skirt, darts, platinum alloy, plastic skirt, pointed and belted (Crosman Fast Flight Penetrator), coated lead pellets (Beeman 1222 Hollow Point Coated Pellets), zinc,
By the way, what is a “pointed belted pellet”? What is meant by belted?
BB and pellet guns, smooth bore vs rifled barrels, shallow vs deeper rifling.
You could possibly add softer and harder lead to the testing also. Might be splitting hairs with this one.
Is there more fouling or wear in different calibers, speed (fps/mps), weight of ammo, different manufacturer’s barrels (metallurgy/harness, brass barrels), choked barrels.
Would this be worthy of a separate blog post?
There are a lot of variables and long term testing with this one.
Has any testing been done with airguns or firearms including shotguns that we could look to?
Or is it a moot point, too small of effect on the barrels to matter between the different materials, barrel hardness or smooth vs rifled?
Just wondering or out of curiosity how different pellets will group with my air guns.
Will shooting 500 hard pellets damage a barrel? Or at what point do you start to see more fouling or wear.
Most concern for me would be shooting steel bbs in a rifled barrel. Crosman 1377 and Hatsan BT65 with alloys to get a flatter trajectory.
Thanks in advance,
John
Desert Rat Caver,
I think those are all very good questions and ones I would like answered as well. Problem is, it is all a bit subjective. How do you scientifically qualify/quantify anything? Sure, accuracy falling off, then cleaning, the accuracy comes back is a pretty good indicator that fouling (to what degree?) was affecting accuracy. Wear, a bit harder to determine. Etc..
All in all, good questions,…….. Chris
John,
Let me think about this. Maybe there is a blog in it.
B.B.
B.B.,
To “coat tail” John’s questions, why do air gun makers not use hardened-er steel barrels as used in firearms? A waste? An added expense? Wear from alloy pellets or wear from cleaning would then be a non-issue,… yes? Maybe ok for top end stuff where people might pay more,… like say another $100.
If alloy pellet wear and repetitive cleaning does in fact/can “wear out” a barrel, then something harder seems like a no-brainer.
While I (can not) say for sure, my Red Wolf accuracy seemed to fall off a bit and some (a lot actually) say to clean every 500 shots are so. Could have been just me too? Mine has about 750 through it. I did give it a clean over the Winter, so Spring will tell.
All in all, an interesting set of questions. How to best answer any?,….. Over to you! 😉
Just some thoughts,……… Chris
On my dragonfly I had to remove .005 from the barrel at the muzzle to fit a tko. It took a couple hours of grinding with a diamond bit in a foredom tool, with me not being gentle. That’s got to be about the cheapest steel, its definitely a mild steel, but it took work to remove with abrasion rather than cutting.
Ed,
Thank you for the input. If chemical/powder corrosion is not an issue with air guns, then it comes down making something that will withstand harder pellet alloys and cleaning (even if it is excessive by some standards).
For example, try to find a nylon bristle bore brush. What short time I have spent looking, not much there. Brass or bronze seems to be the “soft” side for firearm brushes.
I do like the “Patch Worm” system because of the added pressure (I do not have), but I also wonder if pressure alone is enough to remove lead in rifling, or is some sort of lead solvent also needed/better/more efficient?
Edit: And, if alloy residue,… what cleans that the best?
Chris
I use JB non embedding paste agressively on all my modern barrels and never had an issue. Same with a brass brush and kroil for initial cleaning. If you want to see take a brass brush and Chuck it up in a Dremel or foredom and try to remove metal from a steel part. I’d bet the brush will desintagrate before it removes any measurable amount of steel.
Edit: brass brush will scrub away residue. And kroil for lube, finish with jb paste and dry patches to clean it up.
Chris,
Firearm barrels aren’t as hard as you think. And rimfire barrels are almost dead soft.
Airgun barrels have very little wear and get millions of shots, if they are handled well and not abused.
To change them would solve a problem that doesn’t exist.
B.B.
In regard to cleaning and wear, for target rifles, at least, I the club I belong to, we have bee teaching 10 to 18 yr olds the art of precision shooting for well over thirty years. We have many record holders and former champions in our rolls. We own quite a number of “club” rifles in both 22 and airgun. The airguns are either FWB, Walther, or Anschutz. the 22s vary a bit more but most are Anschutz. The 22s get cleaned about every two weeks but the air rifles have never been cleaned,, and some have had, as BB mentioned, well over a million shots each,, and they are still capable of shooting all ten Xs 60 times in a row. At low speeds, pellets will neither dirty a barrel more cause it wear. Once you start shooting at speeds in excess of those allowed in sanctioned matches,, things may change,, but this has been our successful procedure since long before I joined the club.
Edlee,
Thank you for that! I have been saying the same thing for years and have been told that by Olympic shooters, but it really helps when someone else who has been there corroborates it.
B.B.
Thank you for thinking about it.
With choked barrels, are the pellet heads/skirts resized or is the pellet heads/skirts shaved any amount or both and accumulates in the barrel? Compared to non-choked barrels.
John
B.B.,
Thank you for thinking about it.
With choked barrels, are the pellet heads/skirts resized or is the pellet heads/skirts shaved any amount or both and accumulates in the barrel? Compared to non-choked barrels.
John
I think most of the wear on a firearm barrel would be due to the chemical residues from burning powder.
I’ve noticed cp pellets will foul rifling when shot fast, I’ve always assumed it was due to the alloy, I think it has bonus antimony in it.
As far as bbs go…I doubt they would ever do any significant wear on a barrel, a modern one anyway. I would bet if anything they would burnish it. I had a pump master as a kid, always shot bb, unless I felt rich and then pellets. Must have had a couple dozen 1500 bb boxes through it, still worked fine. I wish I still had it to take a close look at though.
D R C,
I know that BB advises us to avoid Crosman pellets, with their harder, antimony and lead alloy, in guns that are firing them over 850 or so feet per second. I also know from experience that if you ignore his advice in this matter your barrel will probably foil very quickly. I was shooting Crosman Hollowpoints from my .177 Gamo Coyote at around 1100 fps and it went from printing .5″ groups to 2.5″ groups in about 30 pellets time. Cleaned the barrel after a brief period of panic and all was right with the world once again!
I don’t think typical shooters will ever wear out a barrel in a pellet gun. The metals used for pellets are all so much softer than the steel in the barrel. With BBs it would usually be hard to tell if accuracy was being lost or not, being that they aren’t very accurate to begin with, usually.
My thoughts.
Half
Half,
Thank you. Real life experiences (and solutions) are always a welcome treat. That is pretty solid advice, (at least for Crosman pellets and around 1100 fps). Happy you remedied the situation.
Chris
How about greasing or oiling alloy pellets in soft barrels?
BB,
In Carrollton, Texas there used to be a place called Golden Bear if I remember correctly. A Russian guy ran the place and was involved in importing the IZH60, 61, and the IZH46. I want to say the guys name was Boris but I can’t remember. I wonder if this guy was working with Josh.
David Enoch
David,
Are you perhaps referring to the Plessingers — Boris and Rada? I bought many things from them over my early years of writing “The Airgun Letter.”
B.B.
Thanks for the “How and when Pyramid Air got started” link, B.B. – my eyes literally devoured the four parts; a fascinating, well-written read that was.
Edw
Thanks for the information about the barrel. I have some different barrels that I might do up to work in the TR5. I’m a machinist by trade so pretty easy for me to do. And not that the barrel is bad but I think more accuracy could be had with a better barrel.
And good that the seal is nice. And looking through the slot in the main tube you can see the spring when the gun is cocked. It looks like mine is lubbed about right. I don’t like my spring guns over lubed.
And my gun shoots pretty smooth. The reason I was going to change the spring is I want a little more power out at 35 or so yards. And I think there’s enough room for about a 1/4 inch spacer in front or back of the spring with no problem. My gun looks like it’s got about a 1/16 inch or more between each coil when the gun is cocked so I don’t think there will be coil bind if a 1/4″ is added. That’s probably what I’ll do before I put a different spring in it.
I ended up putting a couple brass washers in, one between the spring and guide and one between the guide and spring cap. They were the stock brass washers from a hw97k. I didn’t measure them, but it looks to be about 3/16 all told. I haven’t put it over the chronograph, I just finished as it was getting dark last night. But it punched clean holes in the paper rather than tearing at the bottom of each shot. I’ll try tonight to get some record of the speed.
Edw
I spent the morning with mine. No complete tear down. And wanted to try some more things.
I ended up oiling the barrel with about 6 or so drops of some 3 and 1 oil and did some shooting with some more pellets. I have had good luck doing that to tighten up the groups. And it did. And one particular pellet keeps winning out. I won’t say yet until BB does more reports on his TR5. But people will be surprised. And just a reminder I have been shooting at about 10 yards. Today I moved out to 20 yards and still bench resting off a bag. Groups were a little bigger than I like though at the 20 yards.
So I decided to mess with the spring. First off very easy gun to change springs out in. Just click the button on the adjustable butt stock and slide in then back off with a little speed and the butt stock is off. And no need for a spring compressor on this gun. I took way harder springs out of guns than this one with no spring compressor. Oh and the main stock doesn’t even have to come off.
But I wanted to try some of the cut down Air Arms TX 200 springs I have that are cut to different legnths. And darn anyway but the outside diameter of the spring is too big so they wouldn’t fit in the piston.
But as it goes I put a spacer at the front of the spring that’s a bit under 3/8 inch. I was still able to get the gun back together by hand no problem. And no coil bind yet when cocked. I still have space between the spring coils. It’s getting close though. Probably no more shimming can be done where I’m at now.
So been shooting now. No chrony ever yet on this gun. But definitely thumping harder now. And like you mentioned. Now my pellet holes are cleaner when they punch through. And yes the groups have tightened up even out at 20 yards that I can live with for plinking. So for now more shooting as is. Still maybe a different barrel later on. All in all I like how easy it is to work on in regard to what I have done.
Have you got your velocities yet that you was talking about doing now with your mod?
Ready for some screwy numbers? I was averaging 510 with 7.9 CPL before any modifications/cleaning.
After polish/lube/cleaning barrel: 485 avg with 7.9 CPL, but 508 avg with 8.44 JSB. So went from 4.6fpe to 4.8fpe.
Over 5 shots each were within 2fps, so very consistent. Still not broken in. I’ll shoot a few hundred now and see where it’s at.
I’ve been pretty much at 20yds the whole time. Groups are improving, and mine has a pellet it likes better also.
Edw
Yep to me it sounds like that’s not enough spacers in the spring on your gun. It’s probably still in that working area. Maybe it might take just another 1/16″ of shim to what you have and velocity may jump up more. Kind of weird how that works but I have seen that before in spring guns.
But yep I’m going to wring mine out this week. I’m off the rest of the week for Easter.
And I’m going to try to make a spacer adapter tonight at work to use a Benjamin Maximus barrel and others like the 2240 barrels and such that all interchange. Then I’ll be able to put any Crosman/Benjamin barrels of those types in my TR5.
Edw
Just a update. Didn’t get to make the spacer adapter for the barrel last night. Got busy.
I’m going to put a bit more spacer in there tonight or tomorrow. I’ll see what I have for laying around. I like your trick of getting the stock out. Easier than the pin removal for sure. I still hate circlips, but i’ll live.
Edw
Good let me know what happens after shimming some more.
And just a note. Even though I still have space between the coils when cocking after adding my 3/8″ spacer. I think I’m at the limit when cocking the gun. I think if I add any more shims the sear won’t latch.
I’m sure you know that but figured I would mention it.
And same here hate messing with those circlips. And glad that worked for you to get the sliding butt stock off. And I actually wire tied my pin groove instead of using the circlip. I just like it better. That way I know that clip won’t accidentally pop off. The one that holds the cocking lever and end cap in the main tube is what one I’m talking about.
Edw
I just can’t hold back. Got to show my Crosman barrel swap mod.
But about it first. These TR5’s are easy to work on.
Had the stock off and barrel out in seriously 2 minutes if that. And found that the barrel from the TR5 steps down in diameter where it’s installed in the breech. It’s just a little smaller than the Crosman barrel. Made a shim out of a 2 litre soda bottle. It was a nice snug fit. Then tightened the one set screw under the breech that actually holds the barrel in. And that’s it. Just put the stock back on with a few screws.
The barrel I used was from a 1377. Basically chose it because you (Edw) made a comment that he thought the TR5 barrel was to long. And I believe that too. But what is nice that I know this works, I can but a Maximus barrel in it which are very accurate. But probably way to long. But at least it can be tryed.
And to say the TR5 barrel is accurate. But it is more accurate with the 1377 barrel.
And notice I haven’t said anything about group sizes or bad things about the gun. What me and Edw have been talking about and doing is things that improve the gun more. What is shown here is the gun can be modded which some people like.
I hope BB See’s what I mean. But darn BB hurry up with your next report on the TR5. And I know your busy. But would like to hear more about what you see with the TR5 you have.
But here’s some pictures of mine with the 1377 barrel then a picture with a Discovery sleeve on the muzzle end to act as a muzzle end cap to protect the crown of the gun.
And here’s a picture with the Discovery sleeve on the barrel
And here’s the picture with the Discovery sleeve. And if anybody is wondering what the part sticking out past the breech under the barrel is the side lever cocking arm.
That’s awesome! I’m hopefully getting one of the machinests at work to part/face/crown mine next week.
I’m planning on taking 7″ off, which would leave 1″ coming from the stock. It will truly look like a bullpup then.
I have a couple old 1377s around, so I might try that first.
Edw
The 1377 barrel came to right at flush with the stock.
The reason I wanted the front part of the stock off is I wanted the barrel to be truly a floating barrel. I didn’t want the barrel to contact any part of the stock to maybe cause accuracy problems. Look at the Izzy. I think that’s why they are accurate. We’ll from what I have heard. I haven’t owned one.
And you should try one of your 1377 barrels. It’s really very easy to do. I stuck the transfer port side of the 1377 barrel in to the breech of the TR5. The 2 litre bottle shim seals the hole. And didn’t figure it would cause any acurracy problems when loading since that what the 1377 and 2240 and Discovery and Maximus do anyway. They push the pellet over the transfer port hole.
If you decide to try the 1377 barrel I would like to know.
GF1,
So,… we have guns that over sprung and can see no fps drop with spring chopping (and) other guns that are under sprung and can benefit from shimming?
We have been there, done that, bought the T-shirt,…. but is does sound to me as if the airgun makers need to do a bit more research and testing to find optimal.
Good to know that it can happen both ways,…….. Chris
Chris USA,
Looks to me they were aiming at a specific market which is why they were limiting the power output (making it kid safe? Ain’t no such thing though) in this rifle.
Siraniko
Chris
Siraniko is right about the TR5. I think it’s a 12 foot pound gun. It has the F mark or Fein mark I think it’s called.
But it’s not what the makers do. They just put a combination together that is effective for what they want out of the gun. Then that’s were us modders come into the picture. Just like cars. They make the cars to get from point A to point B. The modders make them do it faster and quicker.
You know what I mean.
I’m not sure the sidelever could stand 12fpe. At least the way I’m cocking. I have a 12fpe vortek spring I was thinking of trying at some point. Same diameter, and the tight spring guide would fit, bit perhaps a bit long. This is for a 97k, perhaps I should vortek my R7 and have some spare parts.
Edw
I would have to say that Tx 200 spring I wanted to try would probably push the limit of the cocking arm.
I was going to put a price of small diameter steel rod in my TR5 cocking arm and tack weld it at a few places to secure it and strengthen the arm
But with the mods I have made so far I’m happy with the factory TR5 spring.
The R7 is a comfortable 6-7 fpe. I’ll hold on to the idea for a few thousand rounds.
Edw
No I meant when I was going to try the Tx 200 springs I have in my TR5.
That’s why and how I was going to try to strengthen the TR5 cocking arm.