0

HW 30S : Part 8

HW 30S peep sight
The Mendoza sporting peep sight is mounted too far forward on the HW 30S.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4 β€” Rekord trigger
Part 5 β€” lube tune
Part 6
Part 7

This report covers:

  • A couple updates
  • Disassembly
  • Removing the mainspring
  • POP!
  • Mainspring out
  • Why is the spring bent?
  • Tune in a Tube?
  • Removing the piston
  • One more thing
  • State of factory lube
  • State of TIAT
  • Summary

Today we disassemble the HW 30S and see what’s what. You will remember that this rifle was a little buzzy when new and I tuned it with Tune in a Tube through the cocking slot. That is all that has been done to this rifle, other than shooting it. It’s also helpful to remember than the first time I tested the velocity in Part 2 it was slow, shooting Falcon pellets at an average 601 f.p.s. After some shooting in Part 5, they averaged 647 f.p.s., so a small break-in occurred.

A couple updates

You also remember that the trigger was too light in the last accuracy test? I discovered that the aluminum adjustment screw had backed out all the way and needed to be reattached. The trigger blade was just flopping around.

And remember that the Mendoza peep sight didn’t adjust low enough? Reader RidgeRunner suggested that I try mounting the AirForce peep sight from the Edge, which I did. It fits fine and is super-adjustable, so after the tune I will test it.

HW-30S Edge peep
The Edge peep sight fits the 30S fine. Hopefully it will adjust low enough.

Disassembly

Step one is to remove the barreled action from the stock. The 30S has a single screw in the bottom of the forearm and two triggerguard screws. Then the action comes out of the stock.

HW-30S action out
The barreled action is out of the stock.

Step two is to punch out the two pins holding the Rekord trigger assembly in the rifle. Then the trigger and the safety and spring come out.

HW-30S trigger out
Punch out two pins and the trigger assembly, safety and safety spring come out.

Removing the mainspring

Now for the hard part, which is not hard at all, if you know the “secret”. You don’t need a mainspring compressor for this. If you are careful, you can safely remove the mainspring without a compressor.

The HW 30S has an internal end cap that restrains the mainspring, not unlike the HW 95 and Beeman R9. But on the HW 30S, this end cap is held in the spring tube by a single small screw.

HW-30S end cap screw
That single screw (arrow) holds the end cap against the mainspring.

Obviously the mainspring is under some tension. What you do is place something to cushion the end cap when the screw releases it, then carefully unscrew that screw while pressing down on the barreled action.

I used an old piston seal. But anything that will cushion the end cap will do.


HW-30S end cap cushion
An old piston seal cushioned the end cap when the retaining screw was removed.

POP!

The end cap came out of the gun about 2-inches when the screw released. It’s almost all the way out, but not quite.

HW-30S end cap out
That’s how much tension was on the mainspring pushing against the end cap when the retaining screw released. That’s the screw above the spring tube.

Build a Custom Airgun

Mainspring out

With the end cap out the mainspring slides right out. Oh, oh! There is a small kink in the spring. That’s where the small amount of buzziness came from. If you can’t see it, when the spring is rolled on a flat surface it becomes apparent.

HW-30S  mainspring
The mainspring is canted (bent)! I pointed to the area with the pin punch, but you should be able to tell without that. The bend is gradual, and to the right of where the pin punch points.  This spring is toast!

Why is the spring bent?

If you are going to be a serious airgunner, this is a lesson you need to learn. Making and hardening a coiled steel mainspring is something of an art. Ask anyone who has ever tried to make a spring of any kind and they will tell you there is a very fine line between too soft and too brittle. You try to harden the spring within those parameters. When you make hundreds of the same springs, a couple are bound to be outside either limit, like this one. It is too soft in the area where the bend is.

Is this common? Not really, except I have experienced that many Diana springs are slightly too brittle at their ends, which makes them break off.

So, whaddaya do? Well, I chose not to get a replacement Weihrauch mainspring. I could have bought one and it probably would have lasted for many years, but I was going to install a Vortek PG3 SHO spring kit in this rifle anyway. This became the right time and I ordered one.

Pyramyd Air was out of the Vortek kits for the R7/HW 30S so I went straight to Vortek. I also ordered a new piston seal on the recommendation of Tom Gore, the owner of Vortek. Until the kit arrives the rifle will not go back together.

I will also tell you that the factory mainspring was loose on the spring guide. That helped me decide not to replace the factory spring, because I would have to do something about the loose plastic guide.

Tune in a Tube?

I found that the small amount of TIAT that I put into the rifle was more or less evenly distributed around, with the least being on the coils that are inside the piston.

Removing the piston

We are not done with the disassembly yet. The piston still needs to come out so we can examine the piston seal. To get the piston out the barrel has to be removed from the spring tube. The pivot nut on the right side of the barrel and the pivot bolt on the left side need to come out. If you break the barrel open the tension on the pivot bolt will be released.

HW-30S pivot nut off
On the right side of the barreled action remove the barrel pivot nut and washer.

HW-30S pivot bolt out
Flip the gun over and unscrew the pivot bolt. If you break the barrel open the tension on the pivot bolt will be released.

Now the base block and barrel slide out of the action forks, revealing the thin base block washers on both sides. 

HW-30S barrel out
With the pivot bolt out the barrel and base block slide out of the action forks.

One more thing

If this was a conventional breakbarrel you could now disconnect the cocking linkage from the piston, but on this rifle there is a steel bridge in the way. Remove the pin from this bridge and the cocking link pulls away from the piston. The HW 30S has no cocking “shoe” like other Weihrauch rifles. The end of the cocking link connects directly to the piston.

HW-30S bridge
Drive that silver pin out of the bridge to allow the cocking link to withdraw from the piston.

HW-30S link out
With the barrel separated it’s possible to pull the end of the cocking link out of the piston and slide it back out of the bridge.

Now remove the piston. The cocking link was all that held the piston in the spring tube, so it now slides right out.

0HW-30S piston out
The piston slides right out.

State of factory lube

The rifle I have was lubricated well from the factory. I don’t care for the thin grease they use, but they never know where in the world their rifle may be going. I’m sure they selected something appropriate for everywhere.

State of TIAT

The Tune in a Tube was applied ultra-thin, yet it coated the mainspring very well. It did not get on the piston, nor does it need to.

Summary

That is a complete disassembly of the HW 30S powerplant. Even if I hadn’t planned to scrap the factory spring, I wasn’t going to assemble the rifle in this report. I will take my time and show you all the things I look for and do. I have some experience with those Vortek kits, having installed a couple of them, and I am anticipating a smooth tune with this is finished.

I know the Vortek kit produces more power than the factory 30S, but that’s not what I want. I want smooth shooting and easy cocking. Anything more than that is a waste, in my opinion. We shall see.

73 thoughts on “HW 30S : Part 8”

  1. B.B.,

    Is there a significant difference between the factory seal and the Vortek seal to justify the change of piston seal? Thanks for letting us peek over your shoulder as you give your HW30s a once over inside.

    Siraniko

  2. B.B.

    The cocking bridge that you showed pictures of has some of the worse welds/brazes that I have ever seen. Are you worried that they would crack with a stronger spring?

    -Y

      • Guys,

        I looked at both photos again and I agree. When I install the Vortek kit I’ll try to take more detailed photos of those welds, because frankly they look like some of my work, where a coathanger was used instead of a welding rod πŸ˜‰

        BB

        • “they look like some of my work, where a coathanger was used instead of a welding rod”

          LOL! Been there done that! (It was an emergency repair done in a parking lot using a 12 volt battery and a coat hanger)

          The welds aren’t “pretty” showing the classic ripples you usually see but it looks (from what I can see) that there’s good penetration into both parts. They should be fine.

          Hank

  3. BB,

    Thank you for this. A Vortek kit may end up in my grandson’s HW30S. You said that the piston slipped right out. Perhaps the Vortek piston seal is a little larger / tighter fitting. That in itself could likely help boost velocity.

    Question: If you were to leave the safety button and spring out, would the trigger assembly function properly?

  4. BB,

    as a matter of principle, Weihrauch should provide a new spring and the rifle should get a new test with a good mainspring.

    But then, there’s only so much you can do and there probably isn’t time for too many redundant tests.

    Anyway, I’m looking forward to the tuning report…

    Stephan

    • Stephan,

      I don’t blame Weihrauch for this. I have had broken mainsprings in three Diana rifles and I blamed them at first, until I realized how difficult it is to harden and temper springs.

      I’m alsao looking forward to the next report, which will be the description and installation of that Vortek tuning kit. πŸ™‚

      BB

      • B.B.
        While I have no doubt that making springs properly can be difficult, I can still see no reason to forgive a faulty one in a new product. I am not on speaking terms with anyone from Weihrauch and so would have no qualms about asking for a replacement for ANY faulty parts. I am sure that they, as a reputable company, would be happy to provide any parts that might be defective, particularly to someone who has a following like you have.

        I am, of course, thinking in the terms that an average ( well, above average if I am willing to dismantle my new rifle) consumer might. I expect certain deficiencies in some products made by some companies, but expect better of others. Weihrauch is one of the others.
        Ed

  5. Hi BB,

    What a great series on such a great air rifle. The HW30S is probably my favorite air rifle. And Vortek has great products. One of those kits really made a difference for me. Hopefully it works out well for you too.

    Best regards,

    Carel

    • I wouldn’t say I “blame” them. Mistakes and part failures can always happen and maybe this was the one out of 100 mainsprings that is bad.

      It’s perhaps a little unsatisfactory for everyone including Weihrauch because we didn’t get to see the full potential of the stock rifle. But how many times are you supposed to disassemble and reassemble a single rifle…

  6. BB,

    I’ve made lots of springs over the years (have a special little wire-feeding jig I made for the lathe) and agree that de-stressing and tempering to the exact right hardness are not easy. Still, Weihrauch’s spring supplier should have better control over their process. Could be a metallurgical issue.

    Guess that the springs’ performance is still within acceptable parameters for the typical user.

    Springs are challenging to temper but fish hooks are an order of magnitude more difficult to get right – there is so little margin for error between one that snaps and won’t hold its shape.

    …Just rambling.
    Hank

  7. I am more than a little lost here, If the peep sight was too far forward on this gun, how did they use similar peeps on say a Stevens Diamond pistol, when held at arm’s length? I never could understand that!!!

    • Barrika,

      It all depends on the diameter of the hole of the peep sight. The farther the distance from the eye the bigger the diameter of has to be. At arms length the diameter would have to be significantly be bigger than if it were only a few inches from your eye for it to be used. If you brought a large diameter peep sight closer it would function more as a ghost ring sights than a proper peep sight for accuracy.

      Siraniko

  8. BB,

    I am glad that the Edge peep works in this little beauty, although from the picture it looks a bit flimsy. We’ll have to wait to learn how it works.

    I look forward to see what the Vortek kit does. One of those made a marked improvement in the behavior of my D34.

    Henry.

  9. BB, These very nice photo’s. I remember the Vortek airspring didnt work out very well. Why is adjustable preload for spring guns limited to swapping out a few thin washers? On some motorcycle forks, the preload is adjustable for handling by threading in or out. The R10 is too much in the house, sometimes I would like like to detune it for that, but I guess thats what this rifle is for there for.
    Rob

  10. Off topic…
    I ordered my first CO2 airgun – Beeman QB78 Deluxe from PA back in March… So is 3 months out of stock normal for this particular AG? The Sheridan 2260MB is in stock… Wondering if I should cancel the QB78D and get the 2260MB (I’m sure that’s never been debated before )
    Any thoughts are appreciated.
    Jeff

    • Bob,

      It’s as simple as replacing the barrel and base block with cocking link for another. If you want a lower lever of indenture it gets pretty hard pretty quick.

      BB

      • BB
        I think Bob and me too want you to show how to interchange barrels with the same breech block that comes with the gun.

        Just change the barrel and nothing else in other words.

        • GF1,

          Find someone else. I leave the barrel inside the base block that you are calling the breechblock. Way too much trouble for me to go to that level of indenture.

          BB

          • BB,

            Can the barrel not be removed from the breechblock using a special tool to loosen the star nut?

            You touched upon the subject in the report on the HW50 back in 2010.

            And what in tarnation is a base block? Is that some kind of Eastern thing? ;o)

        • GF1,

          Yes, that’s exactly what I wanted. The Weihrauch break-barrels have a star nut at the breech, which seems to suggest that with the right tool the barrel could be loosened and pulled out of the breechblock for calibre changeovers, something similar to what the Diana 34 EMS seemed to promise.

          • Bob
            That’s what I was thinking about too. And for some reason I’m pretty sure I remember someone mentioning that tool.

            I bet if a person had that tool a barrel swap could be pretty easy. I sure would like to know.

  11. BB
    How much spring preload does the spring have?

    I’m thinking the spring was to long and coil bind bent the spring. If that happens on the valve spring on engine heads it will stretch the valve stem and sometimes will pull the valve head or retaining locks and grooves right off the valve stem.

    Coil bind is not good. Zero preload is better in many ways than too much preload. And most of the time with less preload the the piston won’t be pushed so fast as to where the piston seal can seal correct and then gets blow by past the piston seal.

    Some spring guns will actually speed up in velocity with less spring preload and be a less violent shot cycle. Seriously I know. Messed with it too much. So in reality it might not be the spring tempering.

    Think about it.

  12. Apologies if you’ve mentioned this already – the feel during the cocking stroke for example – but is there any galling between the cocking link and cylinder?

    I’ve no experience with one of these myself, although I take an interest whenever they are discussed on the UK forums, but you’re not showing the area on the underside of the cylinder forward of the bridge – that’s the spot isn’t it?

    iain

    • Iain,

      No galling whatsoever. I have seen people write about galling there, but the pictures they post are where the bluing has rubbed away. There was no loss of metal.

      The part of the cocking link that touches the steel pin is rounded, so it’s hard to see where galling would start.

      I will try to show a picture of what I’m taking about next time.

      BB

      • Thank you, that’s interesting to hear.

        I had always understood the problem to be that the cocking link, far from its rounded outer side contacting that pin in the bridge, was being pushed up against the cylinder and contacting the area below the transfer port.

        But, you do always read of it varying from gun to gun.

        iain

      • BB,

        Mine had the galling issue, and if the problem is there (for some reason it does not happen on all units) it occurs on the main spring tube and is from the rough edges of the two edges of the U-channel cocking link rubbing over the spring tube. I had visible loss of metal on my tube with only about 100 shots or so. I put a plastic spacer of the right size inside the U-channel of the cocking link and since it is now the contact point, the galling stopped (and cocking was smoother too).

        I expect there is a point where the wear stops happening, as enough metal is removed that there ends up effectively being the appropriate clearance in place. I think it is a tolerance issue on the U-channel dimensions, as much as anything. Hope that helps.

        Alan

    • Iain,

      I think galling was a problem with the HW50 rather than the HW30. Many reviewers commented that the cocking effort of the HW50 was much higher than expected for a 12 ft-lb rifle. The cocking stroke was said to lighten and become smoother and quieter after a few thousand shots though, presumably because the cocking link had worn a path by then.

    • Until about six months ago, it would probably be more accurate to say it was a 225 euro, converted into Sterling, but then with postage added, rifle.

      Anyway, for old time’s sake I just checked and, if I may post a link, found this as well

      https://www.versandhaus-schneider.de/index.php/cPath/40_1678_942_944_950_2034

      HW30S, new style stock, with diopter sight. Although I’m not sure if that is ex-factory, or a combo put together by the shop like some rifle plus scope deals.

      iain

      • Yep, importing from the EU has become prohibitively expensive, not to mention the high likelihood of goods being wrongfully seized by border force. What a mess

      • Iain,

        That’s a combo put together by that shop – you get a HW30s with iron sights in one box and a Gamo diopter in another.

        I bought that same package from them in December 2015 for 199 EUR. Am shocked to see the price has risen over 50% since then.

        I was never happy with the Gamo diopter as there is only one screw to fasten it to the dovetail. That wouldn’t matter on a recoiless PCP, but on a recoiling springer it’s a big deal. The diopter of course doesn’t have a recoil pin either, to anchor it to the receiver and prevent it from creeping.

  13. B.B.,

    I have a recent HW30S that shoots smoothly, but now that you spoiled me with your tunes on my Winchester 427/Diana 27 and Walther LGV, I can feel very slight room for improvement with my HW30S. I doubt that I’ll risk opening up the air rifle to replace any parts or even apply Tune-in-a-Tube. I have a zero-success rate working on air guns; therefore, I can live with it. But reading this day’s blog and looking at the Vortek PG3 SHO Tuning Kit and other tune kits, I am wondering about something. (And no, I’m not about to whine. ;^). I’m merely curious.)

    Why do tuning kits for higher-end springers such as Weihrauchs and the TX200 provide an improvement? Yes, they certainly do, but shouldn’t these air rifles not really need it? I get that the degree of improvement a super-nice kit like the Vortek will offer only slight improvement to such guns but great improvement for lesser quality springers. I also get that some air gunners are perfectionists and tinkerers, and a big part of the hobby for them is customizing and upgrading.

    Nevertheless, if Weihrauch and Air Arms increased their prices by 5 percent and paid much more attention to tolerances and lubrication, the high-end consumer would be fine with it, I think

    Any thoughts?

    Michael.

    • Michael,

      Whine, whine, whine! πŸ˜‰

      Why do new airguns need a tuneup — asks the man who owns guitars!!!!!!! Okay, Mr. Luthier, you tell me why new guitars have to be tuned.

      It’s this — “they” manufacture them to a standard. But with some work, the airguns can be made even better. Why does a top-rated pickup improve the sound on some instruments?

      Here you go — Air Arms makes them about as good as they can. Weihrauch makes 10X more of them to a good standard. And Village Number Two in China makes them good enough that the customer (the company with their name on the box) keeps on buying them.

      BB

    • Michael,

      The same reason why even flagship cars from BMW or Mercedes benefit from being tuned (or Anshutz rifles or…) High-end factory products still come from a factory, and are still subject to variation in tolerances.

      Besides, Weihrauchs and Air Arms aren’t that expensive when compared to firearms. The HW30S is in the middle of the price range for Ruger 10/22s and expectations for those are um… ‘realistic’. The TX200 Mark III is about the same as some of the Ruger Americans listed at Brownells.

      I think we just need to keep in mind that high-end factory products are still a world apart from the attention lavished on the stuff that comes out of a custom shop or tuner… and that’s reflected in the price – diminishing marginal returns means that ‘much more attention to…’ cost well… disproportionately more. Labour is expensive! Especially when the inspection/tuning needs to be done by trained and experienced eyes and hands instead of random interns or casual hires.

      Cheers,
      Nathan

  14. BB

    I was about to echo Michael’s comment until I read your reply.

    It is spot on for me to point out once again that my HW30S will remain as is. It is accurate, accurate, accurate as advertised and mine has the smoothest shooting cycle of any sporting gun I own. No TIAT or tinkering for this one. Just got one of the best I reckon.

    Deck

  15. Bob Ryan,

    About 40 years ago, Robert Beeman gave a name to the block that the breakbarrel barrel is pressed into. He called it the base block. Since then people have made up all sorts of names for that block, but I have stuck with a name that is now entering its 4th decade.

    That is what a base block is. πŸ™‚

    BB

Leave a Comment