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Ammo › Comparing the T05 trigger to the T06: Part 2

Comparing the T05 trigger to the T06: Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

RWS Diana 34 Panther
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Pro-Guide spring retainer system for RWS Diana rifles — Part 5 The RWS Diana 34 Panther
Part 5

You’ll notice that I’m doing something different in today’s report on the RWS Diana model 34P T06 trigger. I linked not only to Part 1 of the T05/T06 trigger report, but also to the entire RWS Diana 34P report (it used be called the 34 Panther) that was done way back in 2007. I did that because in changing the rifle to the new T06 trigger, I also had to replace the piston. (In Part 1, I mentioned that the T06 trigger requires a different piston to work.)

I also linked to the report where I installed and tested the Air Venturi RWS Diana Pro Guide spring retainer system in this rifle. That single link takes you to the fifth report in an entire series on just the Pro Guide, and that tune is still in this test rifle.

On to today’s report
When I removed the old piston from the rifle for the new trigger installation, I saw that the edge of the seal had been chipped in a couple places, which might have had an effect on the old velocity figures. Although the mainspring remains the same (it’s that Air Venturi Pro Guide upgrade kit I told you about) for both pistons, I have no way of knowing if the piston seal was damaged when I did the velocity test before, so I’m doing the test, again, today.

Here you can see the main cut near the top of the piston seal and a smaller one at the 3 o’clock position. What looks like a third nick on the other side of the seal is just some excess material sloughing off. Although these are very small imperfections, they might have caused some loss of velocity.

You saw the T06 trigger adjustments in the last report. Here’s what the T05 trigger looks like.

The T05 trigger and piston shown together. Compare them to the same picture of the T06 trigger and piston in the last report.

Some of the more anal among you may wonder whether the new seal made it into the gun okay this time, or am I faced with yet another damaged seal. Well, knowing what happened last time I was very careful to tuck in the new seal past all sharp edges of the mainspring tube as the piston slid in, which is usually where such damage happens. I feel reasonably certain that the new seal isn’t damaged. If testing proves otherwise, I’ll pull the piston and examine the seal.

Something new
Another reason I’m doing the test this way is because of a new BKL product. Last week, I told blog reader Kevin about a new BKL adjustable low mount, and now I’m going to show it to everyone. The mount I’m using here is a prototype, but the production mounts are very close to being completed and shipped and should be available for sale in less than two months.

This new mount is adjustable for height, so it’s an anti-droop mount. And, this RWS Diana 34P is the very gun I used to test the original Leapers UTG Diana drooper mounts. This is the rifle that shoots 21 inches low at 20 yards (that’s 6 inches low at 35 yards with the elevation cranked up as far as it will go)! What better gun on which to test an anti-droop mount than the very one that droops the most of any I’ve tested?

The new BKL adjustable mount is lower than most adjustables, yet it allows a 50mm objective to clear the spring tube when full droop is applied. The black post at the rear of the mount controls the vertical adjustment. This mount is a prototype that hasn’t been anodized black.

I’m not going to cover the mount today, but I’ll do a special report on it after the accuracy testing is completed. Remember, folks, what we’re really looking at in this series is the performance of the new Diana T06 trigger. But time and circumstances have allowed us to also look at some additional things as we do.

Today’s report
We’re going to establish the velocity of the rifle with the new piston and seal. I didn’t expect to have any velocity change from the old piston until I saw that seal. As I report the findings, I’ll remind you of the velocities obtained with the same pellets back in 2008 in Part 5 of the Pro Guide test (after it had been installed in this rifle).

Crosman Premier lite
The first pellet I tested was the venerable Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domed pellet. This pellet proved to be quite accurate in this rifle, and I expect it to continue to be accurate in this test. In the original model 34, as it came from the factory, this Premier pellet averaged 919 f.p.s. After the Pro Guide was installed in 2008 in the gun with the T05 trigger, the average velocity increased to 936 f.p.s. When I tested it this time, the average was 956 f.p.s. The spread went from 937 all the way up to 971 f.p.s., so the gun is getting used to its new situation, but that’s still a small increase.

RWS Hobby
The next pellet I tried was the RWS Hobby. In the factory 34, Hobbys gave me an average of 1021 f.p.s. After the 2008 installation of the Pro Guide system, the average was still 1021 f.p.s. With the latest T06 trigger installation, the average is still 1021 f.p.s. Apparently, that’s a speed this rifle likes for Hobbys. The spread this time went from 1011 to 1031 f.p.s., so just 20 f.p.s. That’s pretty consistent for a springer.

H&N Baracuda Match
The last pellet tested was the H&N Baracuda Match. These pellets underwent a weight change over the past two years; although they became lighter, they still registered lower velocity with the latest tune. In factory trim, they averaged 820 f.p.s.; after the Pro Guide was installed, that increased to 825 f.p.s. With the latest tune, they now average 801 f.p.s., with a spread from 795 to 808 f.p.s. That’s a very tight 13 foot-second spread; but as you can see, the average has fallen. I do believe this is a different pellet than the one I used before even though the name is the same, but there’s no way to prove it and it doesn’t matter anyway. The current pellet is all you can buy, so it is what it is.

Based on the results of this test, which I verified with additional shots after the chronographing was completed, I proved that the gun was shooting as well as could be expected when the T05 trigger was installed. The cuts on the piston seal appear to have made no difference. There has been almost no change with the new installation.

The T06 trigger
My initial impressions of the T06 trigger is that it is a fine sporting trigger, but it offers no substantial improvements over the T05. This trigger has some creep in the second stage that I’ll try to adjust out. The T05 had zero creep. Its pull can be adjusted lighter than the T05 pull, but it’s somewhat creepy, which more than offsets the lighter breaking weight.

The real test of a trigger comes when you’re trying to shoot for accuracy, so I’ll reserve final comment until then. After the accuracy test, I plan a special report on the new BKL adjustable low mount to show you all the features. By that time, I’ll have hundreds of shots on the gun with the scope mounted, which will serve as a test of it’s stability. And, there’s more…but you’ll just have to wait.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

53 thoughts on “Comparing the T05 trigger to the T06: Part 2”

  1. I take airguns apart and reassemble them every day for work. Many seals have the same cuts etc. when I remove them, at first I thought it was cuts from installation. After some trial and error I found that many are cut when removed. To make sure the seal is good and not cut when installed you can either deburr everything the seal might touch and sliding the seal and piston into the tube or put the seal into the tube first, sliding it past all the places it could be cut and getting it facing the right way at the port end of the tube and then sliding the piston in behind it with every light lube on the mushroom then pressing the seal onto the piston. As the velocity numbers were the same for both seals it was either good to start with or the damage didn’t matter for the short time it was used…

  2. B.B.

    Is chipping of the seal a common thing (assuming there was no cut to start with)? Would this be more likely to occur in cold weather or if the piston is slamming hard?
    I have noticed that the seals in most of my rifles seem pretty hard and wondered if hitting the front of the compression chamber hard might tend to damage them.

    Don’t answer this right now…save it for the new drooper mount report.
    What kind of range does this new mount allow for? As an example…..0 to 4 or 5 degrees? Something like that.
    For a rifle with some upward droop, I could see switching it around backwards.
    Sideways error in direction might take a bit more work.


    • twotalon,

      The chipping or slicing happens when the seal is installed, not during use. So, like I said to Mike, I should have deburred the spring tube or at least to have taken more care when installing the last piston.

      The range of adjustability of the new BKL mount is something I’m going to find out. That’s why is is mounted on the same rifle I used to help Leapers design their UTG drooper base for RWS Diana 34s. If this mount can correct 20-something inches of downward deflection at 20 yards, it’s a keeper in my book. And, since it’s adjustable, anything less is also possible.


      • I might have to buy a few of these when they become available. Adjustable mounts seem to be in scarce supply.
        Something that is springer rugged and adjustable for windage as well as elevation would be good too. Even better in some cases.


        • Beeman sells a mount at PA made by Sportsmatch in England that is a one piece mount with adjustable windage and elevation, and a scope stop screw. It is about the best mount I have come across, but they are a wee bit pricey.


          All the ratings are five stars, and I haven’t even left mine yet.

  3. B.B. I noticed that the link to your report on the Talon SS has been removed from the product’s page. Is this a mistake, or are you planning a refresh? 1,000 shots on CO2 might just change my mind about switching from springers.

    • You might want to ask yourself one question first…..
      Is there something about CO2 that you would like in the first place? It is temperature sensitive to a considerable degree, and does not provide a great deal of velocity compared to most springers and PCPs. You also need a handy way or place to get a refill when you need it.
      If you are looking at AF rifles, please note…
      They have some strange ergonomics in the first place. A fat short CO2 bottle could make it stranger.

      So what matters most to you?

      Don’t get the idea that I am against lower power or CO2. Everything has it’s place and purpose.


        • Fused
          I like my Air Force talon on co2. It has about the same performance as an HW 50 with a bit better accuracy. The leanght of pull with co2 bottle is about 14.5 inches which is about standard. I prefer the 9 oz. bottle with a detachable but pad. this gives at least 400 shots.

          • Fused

            I really enjoy shooting my PCPs. They are accurate as all hell. What I don’t enjoy is keeping track of how many pellets I have shot, and wondering if an errant shot is due to pressure change.

            My favorite powerplant the springer, is self-sufficient. No loud or increasingly difficult pumping, relatively no temperature sensitivity except at very low temperatures, no driving around to fill up tanks or buying expensive cartridges, and no stopping every so often to pump up or gas up a rifle. A spring or gas piston should last for years if not decades.

            One thing I really like about my springers, is that to a varying degree, they really force me to relax. I can’t shoot worth a damn unless I relax. And being able to truly relax is one of the things I struggle with. They are like therapy to me. Them and the cats.

        • I did not want to scare you off. Just wanted you to think first to see if that would fill the bill for you.

          I had thoughts of getting a 2260 a couple of times but the low MV , distances involved, and the way the wind swirls in my back yard would have made it impractical. I need to get the pellet (with some weight) out there with some speed and stability under adverse conditions. Temperature would not have been a consideeration because I would be shooting from indoors.

          I passed on CO2 as an option for my Talons because I use them indoors and out. I usually need pellet weight and speed because of the wind and distance.
          I can go quieter at close range with the TSS with the Micro if I want.
          No place to get a CO2 refill around here (or air either) so it’s just pumping for me. Not going to go CO2, buying a bulk tank and fill setup. Just not practical for me.


    • Fused,

      No one should be removing links to articles.

      Do you remember if the article linked to the 2-part blog B.B. wrote about the AirForce CO2 adapter? I can’t find any articles or blogs specifically about the Talon SS CO2 model.


      • Edith,
        There use to be a link to an old style – even before the old blogger site. The format is like the ones that are listed as articles on the website. I’m sure I’ve read it before. But now there is no longer a link. I believe that the review included more than the SS, so it may be categorized differently.

        • Fused,

          So it was an article, not a blog. I did a search for TALON on that page & found 3 instances…2 in Tom’s bio at the bottom & one about the Talon itself…long before the CO2 version was even thought about, much less invented.

          I did another search for CO2 and got 6 hits. Two were in the article “How to load pellets in airguns – Part 2: CO2 and pneumatic guns,” two in “Walther Lever Action CO2 rifle,” one in the powerplant listing section in the LH column and one in the article “What About CO2?”

          None of these are specific to the CO2 Talon SS and shouldn’t have been linked to the Talon SS CO2 product page.

          I’ll ask others at PA if they removed an article link on the Talon SS CO2 page & report back what I find.


          • It was my confusion. The article is linked to the PCP version only, like you say it should be. I could have sworn that the bottom table was data from CO2, but it was just low power setting. Memory failed me again. Thanks for checking though.

  4. The additional, highly relevant, links to today’s article is brilliant!

    Although I don’t have any hard numbers to back it up I’m convinced that the RWS Diana 34 is one of the most popular airguns for those that are starting to get hooked on this hobby. Smarter folks make it their first quality airgun purchase the rest of us seem to take longer to get around to owning a 34 but eventually most airgunners acquire a 34.

    Surprised about the creep in the TO6. Hope it can be adjusted out otherwise it’s a step backwards in the evolution of diana triggers in my view.

    The glimpse at the new, low adjustable mount is momentous. I think I recognize the tasco custom shop. The old b-square adjustables are impossible to find. The new b-square adjustables sacrificed quality and materials and didn’t work well for me. Other adjustables like sportsmatch are too high for many guns. The airgunning community has waited a long time for a low adjustable mount that works. Hope this one does.


    • kkevin,

      I just ran a brief operational test for AirForce before they ran some parts for the mount. I mean I just finished it a few minutes ago. This new mount appears to have the right stuff!

      Although it isn’t really a low mount, it’s a lot lower than the other adjustables, and that count for something. The scope was an AirForce 4-16, but it was a scope they have used for testing and the last time it was mounted on a Hatsan 125, so it had some problems. I swapped it out for a Leapers 3-9 that I trust and just put them all into Roosevelt’s head on a dime at 25 yards.


      • B.B.,

        Ccccute. Guess I’ve developed a typing stutter.

        Yes, your picture of the new mount appears lower than any other adjustable currently available. This is exciting. Your initial impression that it has the right stuff is very encouraging. I can’t wait for these to hit the market. No more bending barrels and shimming. This is big news.

        Sure wish I could shoot like you with a 3-9 leapers. Your group sizes, with unfamiliar guns, never cease to amaze me.


            • Could that dime be related to a guitar pick I own… something I picked up at Elderly Instruments some decade ago… I’m pretty sure I could cover a 5 shot 100 yard group from my .308Win Browning A-Bolt with this guitar pick.

          • B.B.,

            LOL! You can always make me smile.

            I know you’re extremely busy so I have a suggestion. Not a suggestion as much as a plea.

            I realize that Mac has laid down in front of a train for you lately but I’m begging him for a short article on divulging which 3 airguns he’s shot most in the past year. The icing on this cake would be a short paragraph on which 3 firearms he’s shot most in the past year. No testing, no hoopla. He could bang this out in a moment and relieve some pressure from you.

            Mac has become known and respected by this blog. His contributions have been enormous so he obviously owes nothing to us. Sure would be an interesting, valuable and alternative perspective though.


  5. BB, I noticed that Pyramid Air is once again carrying the Mendoza RM-200. I know in your initial review you were impressed by the craftsmanship as well as fit and finish, not to mention accuracy with the right hold. I was wondering: Is this the exact same rifle made by the same company? I just want to make sure one of the aforementioned traits has not suffered due to a change of manufacturer or something along those lines.


    • HK,

      I don’t know if they’re importing the Mendoza guns, again, or if these are rifles they had stacked elsewhere from a previous shipment. I’ve asked purchasing about this & will report back when I get an answer.


    • HK,

      Trust Edith to find out. I know Mendoza was not making airguns for a while and they are again, so this could be a new gun, but Edith will find out for us.

      As far as changes go, Mendoza is about as likely to make changes as the Russians, who say if it works, don’t fix it. But then they did change the IXH 60/61, didn’t they? You are wise to ask.


    • HK,

      Purchasing just told me that the RM-200 airguns were warehouse finds. So, they were “discovered” in their hiding place and now put online to sell. Doesn’t sound like any new ones are coming in. Get yours now!


        • Edith

          Scarcity AND peer pressure? No fair. You know how a can’t resist my buying impulse. Any FWB 124s or Beeman R8s in the dusty corners? I know you have enough flashlights to look for em.

          • Edith

            Sorry, another question. The photo of the rifle shows what appears to be a Mendoza sticker on the left side of the rifle. Could this be atrocity be removed with no trace of it’s hideous existence? If so, I don’t think I could resist any longer.

  6. Well, on the subject of pellets, PA tells me that the RWS Hobbys should be back in stock on July 1. I will be checking as it has been an extremely long drought. >:-)

    Duskwight, yes I agree with B.B. you’ve got all the brains of the Mickey Rourke character without the malevolence as in one of my favorite scenes from the Iron Man film.

    Justin Hammer: Hey that helmet looks awfully small. (Trying to fit his head in.) (To assistant), Can you put your head in there?

    Mickey Rourke: Dronebetter.

    Hammer: What’d he say? Drone better? Drone’s? I thought we were buying suits?

    Actually, I liked the Rourke character better than Tony Stark who is so obnoxious that I believe I will pass up the next Iron Man film. Bladerunner, eh? Now, tell me what you liked about that film. At the risk of ripping on someone else’s favorite film, I must say that the film kind of went over my head. I only watched part of it, and I remember a scene where the big blond evil android Roy is chasing Harrison Ford and rams his head right through a wall to frighten him. At that point, someone sitting next to me said, “This is a weird movie.” I had to agree. The book was okay, but the main thing I remember is that developing romantic relationships with androids was strictly forbidden by law. That would be too bad if they looked like the actress in the film, but if they looked anything like that monstrosity of a pack robot that I linked for Slinging Lead’s benefit, I believe I would be fine.


    • Matt61,
      I’ve known a few “Justin Hammer”-like characters throughout my career. It’s amazing how far these guys can go. Before they’ve completely burned down the house, they’ve already got their escape planned and ready. Such characters don’t just come out of thin-air, as in someones imagination. – They were someones real-world nightmare.

    • Matt,

      Well, I have to confess, I like weird movies 🙂 Among my most favs are Lynch’s “Dune”, Coppola’s “Apocalypse” (both – long/directo’s cuts) and so on. I like “El chuncho, quien sabe?” (A Bullet for The General) and both “Ghost in the Shell” full-length movies.
      Maybe you should watch “KIn-dza-dza” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091341 😉

      All right, back to “Bladerunner”.
      I love the mood and ideas of it – loneliness, questions of friendship and humaneness/humanity (I must say Ridley Scott is almost always about “what makes us humans” this or that way), beauty, ugliness, love, morale, right to live and to terminate lives and so on. I thought much on that, so this movie is a kind of a parallel view to my thoughts.
      I also like beautiful music by Vangelis, and I like camerawork and overall style of this film.


      • the movie was actually fairly faithful to Phillip K. Dick’s book, unlike the Schwartzenegger movie, Total Recall (based on the book, “We Can Remember It For You Wholesale). The book and the movie deals with a human falling in love with an artificial life form and the artificial life form developing feelings and emotions with one fallling in love with a human. If you look at the cast in this movie, Harrison Ford, Edward James Olmos, William Sanderson (remember the Bob Newhart show – Larry, Daryl and Daryl? This is Larry), Daryl Hannah (Splash star), Rutger Hauer, Joe Turkel (appeared in the Sand Pebbles with Steve McQueen and whose brother I used to go skiing with) and Sean Young, it was phenomenal. Great movie, great direction, interesting weapons.

        Loved the movie and own the Director’s Cut as well. By the way, the movie out now, the Adjustment Bureau with Matt Damon, is based on another one of Phillip K. Dick’s books.

        Fred PRoNJ

  7. BB,
    I was looking back at part one of this report and you made a statement in the 7th paragraph (right under the close-up of the trigger blade) that unless the original trigger was really bad, the new trigger would not affect accuracy. Unless I missed it, I would have expected a feeding frenzy on that statement! If that is true, then why is there always so much noise about trigger quality and function? I need help understanding that one, but maybe that is part of the report!
    Thanks very much,

    • Lloyd,

      I said that because I wanted people to think about it. Triggers don’t change the accuracy of guns, any more than steering wheels change the speed of cars. Of course a good trigger can make a gun easier to shoot and therefore more likely to deliver its potential, but that’s only if a similar gun (or the same one) has had a bad trigger before and that is being used as the basis for comparison. The point I was making is that this rifle didn’t have a bad trigger before, and the new trigger could not possibly be so much improved as to make a difference in the accuracy.

      I see the same logic when people think that longer barrels are more accurate. If that’s true, why do Olympic target rifles have 16-inch barrels but 25-inch barrel shrouds? It’s the separation of the sights that makes the difference, not the length of the barrel.

      I’ve seen all sorts of fabulous claims for the new T06 trigger on the forums, often by people who have never seen one by their own admission. I guess you could say what I was doing was trying to effect an attitude adjustment. The T06 is a good trigger, but the T05 that it replaced was also a good trigger. Adjustability and the presence of a metal trigger blade are the biggest differences.


      • BB,
        Thank you for the detailed response. When I re-read a few times what you had originally written , I was pretty sure that is what you meant. But it definitely made me pause and think seriously about how little a trigger might affect the accuracy of a gun. “BB the paradigm shifter.”
        Because anyone can post on the internet, so much of the info on forums is : opinion, anecdotal, , misleading, with some verifiable truth thrown in on occasion. Buyer beware, shall we say. Not blowing smoke here, but when I want airgun facts, your blog is the Number One place I go to, and the place that I always recommend. Most everything else is just opinions that have to be filtered through.
        As always, thanks,

  8. BB
    The T05 and the T06 pistons look the same except that the T06 has the slot squared at the piston head while the T05 is rounded. Does this make the difference? Seeing that the the T06 trigger cant work with the T05 piston?

    • Ton,

      I believe you’re right. That’s why I showed both pistons from the same angle.

      It isn’t much, but it seems to make a difference. Did you note that the T05 piston rod ends in a shorter, more tapered angle?


    • Chuck,

      Not really selling it. They are announcing that they WILL be selling it sometime in the future.

      That’s the problem with catalogs. They must be finished weeks before they are mailed, so often things are only guessed at. It’s not unlike the due dates on this website, except when there is a change they can change in a minute, while the catalog remains the same.


  9. BB,
    In connection with your response to my question on the T05/T06 piston difference.
    Yes, I see the other difference between the T05 and T06 Piston! I wonder if that change has any real operation value and is not just more spares to sell by the manufacturer! I’ve seen it happen with a pair of drum brakes I had left over from an older model Japanese car from the 80s. The old brakes would not fit on the newer model only because of a pin sticking out from the drum! A drilled hole fixed that problem. Another such case was with terminals on a battery for a cordless phone. Manufacturer no longer made batteries for that phone, but when I checked that the amps, volts and size of a newer model were the same I bought that battery, clipped off the terminal and soldered on the old one. When I told the sales clerk that that was my intention, he was bold enough to tell me that that was not allowed!

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