by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Air Venturi Seneca Aspen precharged pneumatic air rifle.
This report covers:
- High power
- Coolest test
- What you do
- Low power with Kodiaks
Well, well. Lots of interest and discussion of the Air Venturi Seneca Aspen PCP with a built-in pump. As well there should be. This is a ground-breaking air rifle that offers many features never before seen. However, it has confused people a little. For example, many readers are focused on the “PCP” part of its title, when it is the multi-pump aspect that dominates.
Did you notice that I never filled from a tank in Part 2? I won’t today, either, and today is a continuation of the velocity test. It just is not that convenient to use a tank for the few shots that you get. I will fill from a tank at some point, but that will be after I learn the power curves of the rifle. And I did say curves, with an “s,” because every pellet you use has the potential of changing the maximum and minimum optimum fill pressure slightly.
Today I will test the rifle with a heavy pellet. I’m going to select a Beeman Kodiak pellet, because I think it will be the best of the heavy .22s for accuracy. Kodiaks are no longer available, so I linked to the H&N Baracuda that is the same pellet. So the Kodiak/Baracuda for power with accuracy, but I know there are some who also want to know the “absolutest mostest powerfulest” this rifle can be, so once I determine the optimum pressure for a heavy pellet I will also test it with an even heavier pellet.
Because I have done this before with a different pellet I don’t need to waste my time or effort pumping to 3,626 psi. On the other hand I am shooting a different pellet, and a much heavier one this time, so I will pressurize the rifle to 3200 psi just so I don’t miss anything. Just to remind you, I am shooting a genuine vintage Beeman Kodiak pellet that weighs 21.5-grains. The current Baracudas that replace the Kodiak weigh 21.14-grains. But we need to know the actual pellet’s weight to calculate the energy.
Once again we learn the value of a chronograph. In this string there are perhaps 9 good shots, starting with number 16 and running through number 24. We can argue whether shot 15 should also be included in the good shot string, but the point is with the data, we know what we have.
A second thing we learn from this string is the peak performance came at a lower pressure than when we tested Hobbys. Hobbys started peaking around 2600 psi on the gauge and ended somewhere under 2300 psi. With these Kodiaks the power curve starts around 2400 psi and ends below 2000 — probably well below. Not only does that tell us where this pellet likes to be, pressure-wise, it also suggests that an even heavier pellet will probably like an even lower pressure.
Next I will test the rifle’s power potential. We saw with the lightweight Hobbys the rifle could generate around 23+ foot-pounds on high power. I estimated that this heavier pellet would top 30 foot pounds. In fact, the strongest shot was number 21 at 768 f.p.s. With this 21.5-grain pellet that’s 28.17 foot-pounds — a little less than I figured. Let’s see what more weight can do.
I will now shoot a vintage Dae Sung pellet that weighs 28.5-grains. Because it is even heavier than the Kodiak, I believe it will generate the most power on less than 2400 psi. But I will pump to 2600 psi, just to cover all the bases. Pay attention because there is lots to learn in this next string.
The first thing to notice is how few shots I had to shoot in this string. By using the chronograph and understanding how the pellet weight affects the power curve and pressure curve, I can start very close to the results I want.
Next is the “magic number.” That is the velocity at which the weight of the pellet in grains equals the energy it generates in foot pounds. That number is 671 f.p.s. In this case, that’s a very handy number.
Now for the power. At 681 f.p.s. this 28.5-grain pellet generates 29.36 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. That isn’t the limit of the rifle, because there are heavier .22 caliber pellets out there, but it is very close to it. The Air Venturi Seneca Aspen in .22 caliber is a 30 foot-pound rifle. That’s in the middle for PCPs, but for multi-pumps it is screaming!
For the next test, if I want to shoot this pellet at the max power/velocity, where do I need to begin? I would say around 2000 psi. And, if I do start there, can I stay pretty close to there by adding pump strokes after each shot? Let’s find out. This will be the coolest test I have ever conducted!
Shot……….Velocity……Pumps added after shot
6……………..627 — 1,200 psi remaining
Okay, 2 pumps are not enough to keep the gun at 2000 psi. Remember how fast the pressure drops when you get close to the bottom of the curve. I will try 3 pumps after each shot, and I will also watch the gauge. This is the same test, starting at 2000 psi.
Shot……….Velocity……Pumps added after shot
Do you know what this rifle is? This is a regulated pneumatic rifle. And YOU are the regulator. Total velocity variation in that string is 8 f.p.s. That is perfectly acceptable for a regulated PCP.
What you do
Here is the deal. To operate the rifle this way you have to watch the pressure gauge and add as many pumps as needed to keep the needle at 2000 psi. I noticed the pressure was falling after shot 7, so I added 4 pumps before shot 8. I then added 6 pumps before shot 9 and that turned out to be too many. However — IT DOESN’T MATTER! You could pick the rifle up after a week of storage and, as long as the gauge shows 2000 psi, it’s going to shoot like this WITH THIS PELLET! I think this is the coolest test I have ever run, and I could not have done it without a chronograph and a Seneca Aspen.
Please understand that the data I show here was gathered from this particular rifle. You will have to test your own Aspen like I have today, to discover all the relationships for it. They will be close to the ones shown here, but there will be differences. And, of course, the data will change with each pellet and power setting.
Low power with Kodiaks
Speaking of changes, let’s now test the Kodiak pellet on low power. Looking back at Part 2, we see that the .22-caliber RWS Hobby pellet came on the power band when the air reservoir held close to 2800 psi. From today’s testing we know that a heavier pellet will lower the starting point pressure, but let’s stay safe and start with 2800 psi in the tank.
I see that the rifle got 19 useful low power shots (shots 1 through 19) with Hobbys. Remember that I had to run a second test to prove that 2800 psi was the right pressure for the Hobbys? Since I am starting at a pressure slightly higher than the Kodiak pellet likes on high power, I think we will see the entire power curve. I will watch that pressure gauge closely at the start.
Okay, the distribution tells me I can get 18 low-power shots (shots 3 through 20) if I’m willing to allow a total spread of 24 f.p.s. If I want a tighter spread, shots 6 though 19 are 14 shots total with a spread of 13 f.p.s.
At 629 f.p.s. the Kodiak pellet is giving me 18.89 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. That is more than most other multi pumps can give at their maximum.
But what if I want to shoot on low power with the Kodiak pellet and get the most power the rifle can give on every shot? Well, let’s see — duh! Just pick the highest velocity (629 f.p.s.) and note the pressure that gives it (2200 psi). Now, keep the rifle at that pressure for every shot.
Wanna see? Of course you do! I start at 2200 psi on low power with the Kodiak pellet.
Shot……….Velocity……Pumps added after shot
There you have it. Ten shots with a spread from 624 to 631 f.p.s. That’s just 7 f.p.s.
“But B.B.” you say, “I can’t carry around a chronograph all the time!” You don’t have to. Once you know these numbers all you have to do is keep the onboard pressure gauge needle pointing as close to 2200 psi as you can and the gun does the rest (with this pellet on low power). You are the regulator!
This Seneca Aspen is an extremely interesting air rifle! I have seen this sort of thing in multi-pumps before, like a Blue Streak giving very tight velocity spreads when pumped the same number of times with each pump stroke being consistent. But the Blue Streak was a single shot. The Aspen is a repeater! Guys — this is the gun you have been asking for, even if you didn’t know how to frame the question! If it’s accurate, it’s a world-beater.
And I am not ready to move on to the accuracy test yet. I still need to adjust the trigger for a 2-stage pull.
77 thoughts on “Air Venturi Seneca Aspen precharged pneumatic air rifle: Part 3”
Missed it by THAT much.
When a friend and I were discussing this rifle about a month ago I had guessed shoot once and pump 3 times to keep the pressure up. Apparently it is 3~4 pumps and an occasionally 6.
This is what a Marauder SHOULD have been.
I have a question, does this rifle have a dessicant package in the pump assembly?
Not that it matters to me, my Marauder that I had offered a couple of years ago as a test bed for a multi pump conversion has now been sold, and one of these are on order.
There is a clear plastic tube surrounding the pump shaft in front, visible when the pump handle is open that was filled with desiccant at it’s shot show presentation but it’s not filled now as sold.
As BB noted 6 pumps was too much to maintain the pressure in that case. But, remember, at a lower operating PSI the air bleeds off faster per shot dropping the PSI faster. The higher the PSI the fewer pumps are required to maintain a specific pressure. Nothing drastic, probably a pump or two.
Would desiccant really matter in this case? The total amount of air you are pumping into this rifle will have relatively minimal water with regards to the volume. The amount of water condensing inside increases with the amount of air you are pumping. In a 500cc bottle this can be significant, I think this is a non issue with this rifle. Besides any water that might have gotten in will be blasted out immediately in my opinion.
I myself do not think desiccant would help much. It may serve as a good intake filter and may remove some of the moisture, but the condensation is going to be in the output of the pump. As there is not a water trap as in most hand pumps, this will collect in the reservoir. Most will be blown out with each shot, but likely some will still remain behind. If this was mine I would “flush” out the reservoir when I was finished shooting it and fill it with “dry” air from my compressor when I was going to store it. I would also introduce a drop of silicone chamber oil to the reservoir on occasion to help prevent leaks and reduce the possibility of corrosion.
Maybe all of this would be a bit “over the top’, but that is just the way I am.
Recently got an older FX Independence in .25. Had a slow leak that got faster. Was going from 2500 psi to 500 psi over night. The Independence has been to know to leak and needing rebuilding. Got a Hill pump and put 2 drops of silicon chamber oil in while pumping up to 2500 psi with the Hill pump. Leak slowed. 2 days later added another 2 drops. Has now held 2500 psi for 2 weeks. I would highly recommend using a hand pump,scuba bottle or compressor to occasionally add a drop or two of silicon chamber oil.
Thanks for sharing that info. I think it will play a very important part in maintaining these PCP pump rifles and probably every other one too.
This is something I have been doing for quite some time with all of my gassers. Several years back my Edge leaked down, so the next time I pumped it up a couple of drops of silicone chamber oil went in the Foster fitting and it sealed it right up. Now I do all of mine periodically.
I don’t know about ther dessicant package, but I doubt it. I will check into it.
This is the kind of test that was lacking from previous reports.
Here’s something that I’d like to see: there is a second power adjuster for the hammer. If that gets turned in a few turns can you maintain a decent shot string with heavy pellets on high with a shoot, pump(s)? The fill initially I would think should start higher, because the hammer would hit harder.
Personally I would pump it to 2100 before shooting half a magazine, rather than putting 3-4 pumps into it between shots.
To each their own.
I would probably do the same thing – pump as required when required. For hunting that might be after a couple of shots, for plinking after a magazine full.
Different folks, different strokes eh? LOL!
I detect a lot of enthusiasm and excitement on your part. You don’t issue a Buy it, Buy it, Buy it very often and having another one following right behind it looks entirely possible. I suspect good accuracy may clinch it.
Owning the FX Independence and FX Indy I immediately saw the potential in this Airgun and the price made it a no brainer so I got it ASAP. I think it’s safe to say we have an ‘affordable’ Holy Grail Airgun here and you certainly have the credentials to declare it so when testing is complete. Good days ahead.
Just a note
We spoke about the pressure gage on this rifle and others the other day and the possibility of replacing it with a clearer more precise came up. I’m sure cost restraints came into play in deciding on this gage.
It’s important to note that the gage is recessed into a cutout in the stock and actually flush with the stock on the lower portion..
Unless a replacement is the same size you would have to cut out the opening in the stock or have it protrude out beyond the stock. A dangerous situation when you consider it may have over 3,000 psi behind and it would be there sticking out in harms way. In addition a much larger gage may interfere with scope mounting rings.
This is fascinating for sure! Edw (above) mentioned a power adjuster for the hammer. I knew it had one and reports have been done on other sites,.. but I have not read them.
Q: Is this something that you plan to explore?
Either way, you have demonstrated that very consistent strings can be achieved with a top-up pump or two,.. (once you know the max. fps and what pressure that was achieved at).
What would be the test? What would the results be? More power, at a different higher/lower pressure? Less shots? More top-up pumps required? No benefit? More work with no gain?
The gauge is on the side (the correct side for me and how I would pump) as opposed to the end or under,… another plus for top-up pumps.
Looking forwards to more.
Good Day to one and all,…….. Chris
One of our readers has mentioned adjusting his power so I believe something does exist. I will look into it.
I’d mentioned tuning my gun, but the tuning I did was to find the widest consistent powerband. There is an external hammer spring adjustment screw just for that purpose. Well, the manual does say that after a while the hammer spring will get weaker, and this same screw can be used to get the performance back.
I sacrificed a little top fps in order to have exactly 20 shots (2 magazines) with the least amount of standard deviation. That’s personally my favorite way of using the gun.. pump to my known pressure, load up a pair of mags, and go shoot. My chrono work helped me find my gun’s magic setting, and now I just use and enjoy it.
Thank you for reminding me! I did photograph the external adjustment in Part 1. Too many guns to keep them all straight!
You did what I would do — loose at the top end to gain shots. Good work! 😉
In case anyone is interested, this is what part of the test looked like. My gun served up a 20 shot string with a std dev of 6.1 in one of the tests, and that was without any pumping between shots. The first shot was never part of the best string, so I learned to pump to 2600 and dry fire the first shot.
It is worth noting that I wasn’t doing anything special with the pellets.. not weighing or sorting them, nor even being really careful about what condition the skirts were in. If I were really serious about all this, I’d have done that before using the pellets to set the gun. My bet is the peaky nature of some of the shots has more to do with the pellets than the gun.
You have done your homework! Thanks for the look at what you were able to accomplish. This is the kind of thing that keeps this blog interesting.
I admire your chart work. I am partial to using charts and graphs myself.
Did you play around with many different pellet brands and weights or did you just decide to work with the 16 grain one from the start. Is it accurate and if so, would you consider it your most accurate pellet? Can you recommend any specific ones.
I’ve done a lot of work with the hammer spring preload on my two Gamo Urbans and a Gamo Coyote and have found that, as well as finding the best shot string length and consistency, you can make a pellet more accurate by tweeking its velocity. As you have probably noticed yourself, it does open up a gnarly can of worms, but, for me, it is just another really fun aspect of the hobby of airgunning.
I want to learn all that I can about this particular gun, so thanks for sharing.
With you on the charts, I have a hard time just looking at a list of numbers so I charted B.B.’s shot string from part 2 and as others have said a regulator might be nice but as B.B said “you are the regulator”. Start at that sweet fill and you could easily hold in the 936 to to 946 fps all day, 10 fps spread not bad at all.
In addition you could chose about any velocity that suits you fancy as sometimes a little slower is more accurate.
Hi Half! Thanks, and sorry for the late reply.
I started my work on the shoulders of research already done. If you want, look up the HAM Nova Freedom, and you’ll see what I mean. I started with the pellet that was found best in their test, and found that it shot horribly in mine. I don’t know if it was the pellets themselves (damaged skirts in a way I couldn’t see?), or a subtle difference between the guns, or what, but consecutive shots could be 100 or more fps different. Clearly not the pellets for my particular gun.
I tried a bunch of different weights / brands I have, and found that JSB in 15.89 and up shot well. I didn’t bench test the pellets for accuracy against paper, so I don’t know if there’s a little accuracy yet to pick up. And I haven’t ever scoped the gun. It came with fiber open sights that seemed oddly okay. For plinking, why throw more weight than you need, so I stayed with the 15.89. That’d give the flattest shot. With it, I was able to hit a 6″ skillet @ 50 yds free standing for almost all of a 20 shot session, and that’s the pellet I hit a soda can at that same range with. That’s good enough for me : )
Along the way I found that the 25.39 had a very similar trajectory on high as the 15.89 on low. That meant if I really wanted to smack something, I didn’t have to re-zero the gun! That opened up a new world of fun 😉 .
Definitely a fun, interesting gun.
Thanks for the mention. I figure with a swappable transfer port and hammer adjustment there is a huge range of power options. I will be getting one in .22 as soon as I finish buying Xmas presents.
Wonder if you are aware? This is the Nova Freedom which is highly rated with a brand new name. I would love to own this gun. Top performance & Convenience. You guys over there are so darned lucky. You have it all. Keep up the great work. God bless.
Yes, I’m aware of this is the Nova Freedom by another name. I mentioned it in Part 1. It is highly rated and I hope to learn why. We have already made a good start.
“This is a regulated pneumatic rifle. And YOU are the regulator.”
Yes, I found that to be the coolest part of this test, the part where you showed that adding
about 3 pumps each time to keep the gun at 2000 psi yielded only an 8 fps velocity spread
Such a low variation should really help prevent vertical stringing when you get to the accuracy testing.
Your passion-inspired diligence is making for a great test many of us may refer back to in the years ahead.
Thanks and have a blessed day,
I grant you it is an interesting rifle. I assume that all of these shots are shot with the gun on “full power”? In part 1 you mentioned that it has 2 power settings.
It seems that all the fascination with this rifle is because of the pump. Wouldn’t this gun be even more fun if it was just a pump and not a hybrid? It could be smaller and lighter….
If the pressure gauge is so important, why did they put such a small one on the rifle?
I did both full power and low power shots in both tests, last time and today.
The pressure gauge on the Aspen is standard-sized. The face or dial is just a little hard to read, but I can read it with just my bifocals to keep the shots regulated.
There is indeed very much interest in this air rifle. If it had come along five years ago, I would have purchased one. As it is, if one should show up on the doorstep of RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns I would gladly take it in. I see this as a very good air rifle for someone who wishes to transition from sproingers to the world of PCP. If the accuracy tests show this to be on par with the velocity tests and it also shows itself to be durable, this will indeed be a world class air rifle.
This Seneca Aspen might really flip the PCP world around a couple times. I can imagine designers at other companies reverse-engineering it as we read this.
I also though of another way to think of this air rifle. One could think of it not as a PCP or a multi-pump, but as a single/multi-stroke hybrid.
Those tests with the top-off pumps really illustrate what this gun can do, but I was equally impressed by the near straight-line graph the peak of the shoot curve produced. Because of a quality valve that was apparently tuned well, you end up with a plateau more so than a “peak”, for a fair number of shots, and that is with no additional pumping.
Please, Please, Please be accurate!
Help me understand your sound measurements. What sensing device are you using and at what distance?
Your thorough reports have answered all my other questions. Oh, and accuracy is coming.
I’m using my old tanker’s ears at whatever distance the muzzle is from them. The numbers are not an exact scale. They are simply representative relationships. In other words, if that was a 2, this had to be a 2.2.
Thanks. I was hoping you did it this way because it may be the best way to measure backyard noise. Lots of variables make decibel readings hard to correlate. Muzzle blast, piston noise on springers, recoil compensators, distance the perceived sound travels, people’s hearing sensitivity, hearing aid frequency, etc.
Yes, the Aspen is moving higher on the “want to have” list 🙂
Once you find the golden pellet it would be easy enough to put a couple of pieces of tape on the gauge to “bracket” the working pressure range. No need to read the numbers at all.
Even at the low power setting there is plenty of energy available for small game hunting. And at the cost of 3 pumps per shot it is a dream come true – the fact that it is a repeater is a major bonus!
I really like that the Aspen has a side-lever – the mechanical advantage it gives is great! Bolts work fine for chambering a cartridge but don’t have the leverage needed to (easily) cock a hammer-spring. Being able to tune the hammer force is a very nice feature.
Looking forward to the accuracy tests!
Would you consider a blog on 3-stage pump design?
Think that a lot of people don’t understand how they work.
That’s something I might could do! 😉
I’d love to see that too. 1/2/3 stage differences.
I agree with some previous comments. This is looking more and more like a multi-pump with PCP characteristics. I was dead set on getting one of these but I’m glad I got the Maximis instead. I have enough to do trying to shoot field target than winder how many times I’ve pumped between shota. Now if I was thinking about a gun for prepper use, this would win hands down.
This is a great in depth look at the Aspen. It has great power and versatility.
A couple of observations about it. The hammer spring is easier to access than some other PCP’s which makes fine tuning easier. Those with a Marauder know you have to take the stock off.
On the other side, using the pump onboard is the way to go. It looks to be near impossible to run it tethered to a bottle.
You don’t have to take the stock off a Marauder to adjust the striker and the striker spring. But you do to adjust the transfer port flow adjustment.
I checked and you are right. I remember having the action out but it was to install a debounce device.
I have the Gauntlet back from service and hope to sight it back in this weekend. The invoice says they replaced the valve assembly. It arrived with a charge of air and I really liked that.
Glad to hear you got your Gauntlet back. And yep nice they filled it. Especially since you had a leak. But also if your hand pumping.
Let me know how the Gauntlet goes.
In the real world of serious gage indications, especially Aviation Maintenance, any gage that has an expired “Calibration Sticker” is considered “Out of cal” . So unless your gage is calibrated on a regular inspection schedule it cannot be considered accurate. Same for torque wrenches or anything that measures something.
I would say airgun gages give you a ‘ good ‘ indication of the air pressure and provide a good reference point for consistent performance for shooting various pellets but, should not be considered extremely accurate. Even the best.
Fortunately most things that are meant to operate at a specified range have a lot of room for error before things really go bad so extremely accurate gages are not critical. I believe this is also the case with airguns.
If a gage pointer stops at ‘0’ when it hits a stop pin in the gage face is it really reading ‘0’ or just stuck against the pin and would read lower if it could, being out of calibration?
If you look at the gage on this Aspen you will note that there is a rectangular box at zero. When it is unpressurized and the indicating pin is someplace in that block the gage is considered usable. It’s a rough calibration indicator. But look closer. That block is about as wide as a 400 psi increment reading probably with a true ‘0’ meant to be in the dead center. Without being ‘Calibrated’ you never really know.
So if your pointer is in that box someplace it’s OK but could be reading 200 psi low or high. So much for real accuracy but still good for establishing an operating reference for the rifle. Therefor some rifles will operate better at different pressures because the gage in your rifle may be reading 400psi different than another.
If you truly want an accurate reading plug a ‘Calibrated’ gage into the fill port. You can also get a better idea of what your rifle gage is really indicating. So that pointer, that may be bent or twisted to be ‘pointier’ and easier to read, just helps you pick the reference point you want and is no guarantee of the exact pressure in reality.
You could say that a larger gage with more markings gives you a more precise inaccurate reading.
You got that right, but I think it’s safe to say you get what you pay for and a quality built gage has a ‘better chance’ at being more accurate and probably for a longer time.
And think about this. If you do get an extremely fine gage with very precise indications to serve your needs you may be wasting your money if its not calibrated.
You are talking to a retired EW man . I think I know about test equipment, calibration standards, and procedures.
Glad we’re in agreement.
I agree that it is only a reference point. I have a $5 voltmeter that reads 143 volts at the 120 volt outlet. That’s OK because 90% of the time I am checking for a voltage yes or no condition. For that test it gets the job done.
I can never keep the test leads from falling apart with those meters. I just use a battery charger with a light that comes on or a light bulb with a socket adapter that plugs right into the wall socket. By the way that works out really well for under sink lighting when its plugged into the disposal wall socket.
At least you know the meter is out of cal by at least 23v high. 😉
To be useable for other testing it is good to know that it reads about 10% high. In checking an electronic circuit that had to be 11.3 volts or it was bad, my meter read 12.4 volts. Knowing how far off the tester was told me the circuit is good.
I use a simple two probe neon bulb to do that! Of course in Spain I watched an electrician take two stripped wire leads and plug them into an outlet…wet two of his fingers and run that ON-OFF test on 240 volts!!!
As far as gage calibration and accuracy: I was taught that mechanical pressure gages only are accurate in a limited part (normally central) of their dial range. Electronic pressure gages have the issue of aging out of accuracy although they can have a much greater calibrated indication range.
Anyone for opening a Cal Lab for airgunners…Lol
Shoot Clean or go home!
As some have mentioned today,… this is shaping up be more of an multi-pump article. A multi-pump,.. that has air storing capabilities (after the shot),.. that can be topped up with one or two pumps. A PCP fill valve almost seems to be mute point.
And,… as B.B.’s testing has shown thus far,.. the top 1000 psi (3600) is not even needed (or wanted).
If the valve was different,.. it may use that top 1000. If regulated,.. it for sure would. Hammer adjustment? That will usually get you some power, but less shots. As it stands now,.. it is a multi-pump with topping capabilities. That is not a bad thing. That is in fact a VERY good thing. PCP power/performance without the usually needed support equipment.
And,.. since you just saved a bundle of cash on a pump and a tank,….. get you a chrony to get the very best of this rifle.
Perhaps you have mentioned this,… perhaps not. How does the rifle carry at the side with the pump handle (like you would a brief case)? Does the muzzle tip up? Does the butt tip up? Or,.. does it carry fairly level without a whole lot of struggle or sea-sawing?
That’s going to depend on the optical sight I install. I would like to wait to comment.
It sits perfectly level without much tendency to sea-saw at all and would also depend on what scope you have on it, but there is an inch or so room to slide your hand fore and aft to balance it out. You can’t actually grab it tight with your fist without being uncomfortable. Not really enough room for your knuckles to go through.
It rests very comfortable on your fingers and your thumb rests on the top angled section of it to stabilize it as it sits upside down.. Actually very comfortable to walk with and keep stabilized. A wide contoured grip area keeps it from digging into your fingers, call it ergonomically friendly, especially when pumping it.
And don’t forget, it comes with a 4×32 AO scope too. Looks a lot like a scope that came the Winchester lever action. This guy really knew what we was doing when he designed this rifle.
Thanks for the reply. I am all about ergonomics, shooting or otherwise.
I wonder if the inventor is “listening in” and what he thinks? I wonder if anyone has to ever seen him comment in a blog?
Someone mentioned that this rifle would make the ideal “prepper” rifle. Would it be? What if a seal leaks? A springer? What if the spring breaks or a seal goes bust? Breech/bolt seals on both? Which is more reliable? Which will become just a club sooner,.. as opposed to an air gun? Perhaps the idea of a “prepper” air rifle needs re-visited?
Do we settle for the ability to take bigger game at the expense of less reliability? Or is it the opposite?
I do not have the answer. I am just tossing it out there for discussion.
Everything can break. I have a 30 Cal M1 Carbine that split the receiver open. Need one of each, air and powder.
I’ll try to give you an answer. My view is to find a robust and simple weapon, any type, then buy another identical weapon and preserve it. Order typical failure potential parts and make certain to have the tools required to work on your weapons. My personal choice isPB/PCP/MULTI-PUMP/Edged weapons and lots of wire, cord and rope. Snare traps are the best survival tool to keep you in meat, gill nets correctly used are a great way to fish when it is for survival. The PBs only come out for defense and the airguns for when trapping isn’t getting it done. Properly done farming is your long term best hope for survival.
Shoot Clean or go home!
Thank you. A wealth of knowledge there. I have never done much reading on the topic of prepping. Your prioritization’s seems to make a lot of sense. If ever going mobile,… I can see where weight conservation and selection would be extremely key. I can see it now,…. “I am ready to go! Me and my 350# of survival gear.” …….. NOT! 😉
If staying put,…. well practiced and knowledgeable use of weapons, trapping, etc. would be key.
It would be a good part of the package. But I would lean to a traditional springer for a prepper small game rifle.
Something like an r9 or 97k in .22 and a couple extra piston seals and springs will last forever, be repairable and your ammo doesn’t have to be kept dry.
This (Aspen) would be a good choice until it breaks. In a shtf situation I’d not worry too much if a nutrea or opossum took a bit longer to die.
I like Shootski’s comment on opening a Airgun Cal Lab.
I don’t think its too practical for most airgunners, a working reference psi once established on your gage will always remain the same, unless the gage starts to fail.
However, how hard would it be for Pyramyd Air, or the manufacturer, to throw in a gage deviation note on a 10/10 check? Say at center or full reading after a gage calibration. It may even help find a bad gage !
All they need is a calibrated gage on their air servicing equipment to compare it too. Just a thought …
Great idea, butt ugly and made in China. I would like to see Crosman, Air Arms, Feinwerkbau , or Diana build one that performs as well or better, with good looks and light in the hand.
Welcome to the blog.
Welcome too. I agree on the looks and weight,… BUT,… Bob is right as well. You will find nothing better for the price. Think about it,…. you are bringing a 3 stage hand pump on board the gun. That is going to bring some weight to the matter. And,.. like Bob said,.. the inventor seems to have taken great care to make a quality product. He does own one. And,.. it has to actually work! This one seems to be doing that in spades.
Like Bob said too,…. stick around. Plenty to learn. I learn something new every day here. And,… there is room for plenty of differing, respectful opinions. A really good, mature minded bunch here is all I have to say.
See you around,….. Chris
Come on Greg
I would like my airguns to fill themselves over night while I sleep but that just aint’ gonna happen. And you will never get something like this from any place but Asia for this price. If you do, it will probably be made in Asia anyway and re-labeled with their name !
There is a an extremely fine Airgun that works the same and it’s made to be a top of the line product called the FX Independence. Just get ready to fork out $1,700.00 for it.
The weight can only be reduced by removing many of the amenities that are well in demand today. A bullpup or take-down rifle with a skeletonized stock, and grip, no barrel shroud, a tiny air reservoir with little to no available extra shots and a skinny pump handle that will hurt to use it may be good for use as a bug out Airgun.
I’m sure those guys you mentioned will eventually jump on the band wagon and make one, but not for this price.
This is not your ordinary China made compromised air rifle. It’s a major advancement by a relatively new company that seem to take pride in its well planned and thought out products.
Stick around the blog and join the rest of us in sharing and learning information. Have a fine Airgun day !
Well said Bob. I agree with everything you said. But, I will never buy one, no matter how well it is made. I will never buy anything from China, if I can help it. I would rather go without. I check the label on everything I buy. How can an American buy Chinese ? They are not our friend.
I have been shooting air guns for almost 60 years. I understand .
“I will never buy anything from China, if I can help it”. The problem is…you can’t help it. Show me anything that is 100% made in America today? Remember Sam Walton, the founder of Walmart? Remember his logo made in the USA? Look at it today, everything in the store is made in China. From a quality standpoint, I will take Chinese products any day over Mexican products. I worked for Parker hydraulics for over forty years and I can tell you that the products that came from China were of higher quality than the stuff we were manufacturing on own shop. Parts from Mexico were always junk. And another thing, just because the label says made in the USA does not mean that the parts are not made in China. A Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry both have more American content that a Ford or Chevy. Too bad, but that is just the way it is today. The big corporations have sold us out and the only thing that matters is the bottom line.
Sad but true. The foreign car/parts companies will set up with import parts at first and transfer to local made. Consumer Reports dictates my car buys. If American made want’s my car money, they had better deliver ($ and quality). On $,.. I will pay up for quality (read: reliable and hassle free). Toyota Rav4 driver. Subaru might be the next. From what I have seen, it is no contest,… still. At best,… they (U.S.) might have one model over their (entire) line-up that does as well.
I am not rich and want the most bang for my buck. Period.
Toyotas have very good quality and few problems. I drove a friend’s Rav4 which is about the same size as my Chevy Equinox. I have to say that I prefer my Equinox over the Rav4 though, even though the Rav4 is probably a more quality vehicle. I bought my Equinox from a dealership as a certified one owner vehicle. It is a 2011 and had 56k when I bought it. I’ve had it for five years with no problems with the exception that I recently had to replace the cam vvt solenoids on the engine. I’m able to do some of my own auto repairs so it was a cheap and easy fix. We bought a 2015 Buick Encore 1.4 turbo for my wife last year and she loves it. My daughter traded a Toyota Prius for a Subaru Crosstrek. She loves the Subaru, especially in the Michigan winters. My son just bought a used Subaru Forester which is another very nice vehicle. He found a 2011 with only 30k like new.
I’ve had many Ford cars and trucks and most were junk. The last straw was a 1984 Mercury Marquis which was the most problematic car I’ve ever owned. No more Fords for me. My grand daughter bought a 2005 Honda Civic two years ago. It has 175k on it and looks and drives like a new one. Toyotas and Hondas are still the most reliable vehicles and that the reason they also have the best resale value. Guess that enough about this subject huh?
Without checking,… The Equinox (and the similar Buick, GMC models) are one of the few U.S. that are doing well. It has been awhile since I studied up,… so I could be wrong. If reviews are good,… I would not discount them at all. My sister has 2. Being single,… I do not need anything too big.
By the way,… the Rav4 will (run over) a full size Doe with (0%) damage. I did this last week, 4:30 AM, hit it at 5-10 mph after a hard brake, the right side went up and stayed up, still going, I hit the gas. Had the oil changed and peeked under and confirmed 0% damage. Not fun. Seen several this week already and am very wary. My first one in over 40 years of driving. Over due? 😉 Rut season.
A fellow worker (last week) came to a full stop behind a full size Buck that just stood in the road with it’s rear facing the truck. He had to bump the rear legs, at which point it just looked at him and casually meandered off. It’s nose was up and sniffing.
As for you Ohio hunters,…. you have my full blessing to shoot/blast away!!!!!
Wow! Glad your Rav4 was not damaged. If you had been driving a car you wouldn’t have fared at well. I hate to drive at night any more because I can’t see the deer in time to avoid them if they come out right in front of me. We have a lot of deer here in west MI. I, like Vana2, enjoy watching the deer in my backyard. I just threw a bucket of corn out back this afternoon for them. Tonight one was munching down on it already. Have no desire to ever shoot one again either…and definitely down want to hit one with my vehicle.
I respect your hard core decision and you sound like a true American Patriate and many years ago I felt the same way, and still lean to the right on many of my beliefs, but at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I still bought stuff at that Harbor place but I did choose to buy a Harley and remain a Ford man at heart.
As a retired Navy guy at 71 I got to meet a lot of working people in many Asian countries and they are no different than we are when it comes to wanting a good life.
Nobody gets to choose where they are born and most people don’t get to choose the government that controls their life. A lot of them hate their situation more than we do. It’s the corrupt governments and people at the top making bad decisions who deserve your anger. They certainly have mine…
I doubt this new Chinese company is a government entity, I admire this guy for having the guts to jump into this very competitive business believing he has created something special that will lead to a successful and rewarding life. He sure isn’t trying to rip us off at this price !
60 years eah. Did you just jump back in, in your ‘old’ age, or been at it all along with more airguns than you care to admit ? I still have my first 1894 Daisy replica.
Yes Bob, I have compassion for those people . But I will stand for America . You support communism every time you buy from the country that wants to own us. It is time for us to take a “Hard Core Decision”. Or, start speaking Chinese. Where do we draw the line?
Yep, 60 years. I never put them down. I started with a Daisy pop gun. I learned how to shoot mud out of the barrel. Then, my first bb gun was a Daisy Spittin Image 1894. I don’t have it anymore. Wish I did, but it was worn out. Then a Crosman 760, first generation. Then on to a Sheridan Blue Streak, Benjamin 312, Feinwerkbau 124, R1 , Beeman Kodiak, and many more. I like old German and English springers and American pump rifles. Not a fan of PCP. You could say I am old school. Heck, I still refuse to put a scope on my rifles.
You’ll enjoy this blog and find a lot of info on your airguns in past entries and BB covers a lot of old airguns.
Black rifles and PCP’s are not preferred by a lot of old time traditional airgun lovers. But, be it novelty, the increase in performance or just getting tired of using pumps and break barrels a lot of airgunners are “Moving over to the dark side” (Hi-Powered PCPs) If you try one you might get hooked but it really only depends on where and what you use an Airgun for. I like them all.
It took awhile,…. but PCP’s got me “hooked” and there is no looking back. Yes,… BEWARE!!!! 🙂
(Any increase in cost,.. perceived or realized,… it is just easier to shoot better. Which,… works out very well for my time/schedule/work limited outdoor sessions.)