Home › Blog › 
Education / Training › Gamo 126 single stroke pneumatic 10-meter target rifle: Part 2

Gamo 126 single stroke pneumatic 10-meter target rifle: Part 2

by
↓ 233 comments

 

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Gamo 126
Gamo 126 single stroke pneumatic 10-meter target rifle.

Part 1

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • RWS Basic
  • Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
  • RWS R10
  • Warmed up?
  • Second string of RWS Basics
  • Pump effort
  • Trigger pull
  • Discussion
  • Summary

Today is velocity day for the Gamo 126 target rifle we are testing. We learned a lot from the comments in Part 1 and I also learned a lot while researching the rifle for this report. Today we will see where this particular one is.

The Blue Book of Airguns said to expect a velocity of 590 f.p.s., but many owners say 550 is about as fast as they ever shoot and some even say less. The rifle also starts loosing velocity over time, so we should be able to assess the health of the gun I am testing right away.

RWS Basic

I will start with the lightest lead wadcutter anyone is likely to use — the 7-grain RWS Basic. I will warm up the action with several shots before starting to chronograph the results.

The first string of Basics averaged 434 f.p.s. The low was 415 and the high was 449 f.p.s. The spread from low to high was 34 f.p.s. I guess this 126 is getting tired again, following its reseal.

Sig Match Ballistic Alloy

Next to be tested were Sig Match Ballstic Alloy pellets They weigh 5.25-grains and should be the fastest that I test today. Ten of them averaged 496 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 490 to a high of 501 f.p.s. That’s 11 f.p.s., so this pellet might be accurate. And the rifle may be warming up, so I need to test Basics again.

RWS R10

The next pellet I tested was the 7-grain RWS R10 Match Pistol pellet. I also tried a different way of pumping the gun. Instead of forcing the pump lever closed as fast as possible I went with a smooth motion that was decidedly slower. R10s averaged 454 f.p.s. with a spread that went from 449 to 460 f.p.s. That’s an 11 f.p.s. spread.

Warmed up?

It seemed like two things had happened as I shot this test. First, the rifle’s pneumatic mechanism had warmed up and second, the different way of pumping seemed to have given the shots more stability. So I wanted to try RWS Basics once more.

Second string of RWS Basics

This time 10 RWS Basics averaged 452 f.p.s. That’s faster than the fastest pellet in the first string (449 f.p.s.). So one or both of the things I said were working. The spread for this string went from a low of 432 to a high of 462 f.p.s., so a difference of 30 f.p.s. That is close to the 34 f.p.s. I got in the first string, so I think this Basic pellet is just not that stable in this rifle. But the rifle pump mechanism definitely did warm up a little!

Pump effort

The Gamo 126 and Walther LGR 10-meter target rifles both share a common flaw, in that their pump stroke is on the closing stroke when their levers move forward. This tends to make both rifles harder to pump than other single-strokes, though the Gamo has some kind of pump assist in its oil-filled piston and is actually easier to pump than any other 10 meter single stroke rifle.

The rifle I am testing requires 15 pounds of force to pump if you go steady and smooth. If you force the lever the effort spikes to more than 20 pounds. Only the awkward placement of the pump fulcrum at the rear of the action gives any hinderance at all.

Trigger pull

Now we come to the thing I am most interested in — the trigger pull. I told you in Part one that the 126 has a world-class trigger and now we will see how correct that was.

This is a two-stage trigger as all target triggers should be. I mean real target triggers — not just triggers that have the name target in their title. Stage one takes 3 ounces to complete and stage two breaks at 3.4 ounces. That’s an average of 5 pulls.

Discussion

The powerplant in my rifle is not performing to spec. But it is fairly stable if I pump it correctly. I can live with that long enough to get through the accuracy test that comes next.

Summary

It seems that reader Geezer was right about the Gamo 126. It apparently does have performance issues. I always heard that it did, but now I know what they are and why they exist.

Does a 126 belong in a collection of vintage 10-meter target rifles? At this point I think it does — warts and all. But I still need to see the accuracy to know for sure.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

233 thoughts on “Gamo 126 single stroke pneumatic 10-meter target rifle: Part 2”

  1. B.B.,

    I have always speculated about what happens when warming up both Single and Multipumps. Is the warm up perhaps also expanding the pump head material and causing the length of the stroke to be slightly longer and thereby decreasing the volume of the Headspace resulting in higher final pressure?

    I have ordered some lightweight pellets from PA to feed the SIG Target Pistol when it arrives; two are old standbys and two are light oddballs to add to a variety of .177 I have on hand.

    Also in:
    RWS Basic
    I will start with the lightest lead wadcutter anyone is likely to use(d) — the 7-grain RWS Basic. I will warm up the action with several shots before starting the (to) chronograph the results.

    shootski

  2. B.B.

    “Does a 126 belong in a collection of vintage 10-meter target rifles? At this point I think it does — warts and all. But I still need to see the accuracy to know for sure.”

    Well what else should be in the collection?

    -Y

  3. BB,

    “Does a 126 belong in a collection of vintage 10-meter target rifles?” That depends on the “collection”. Is it a collection of vintage 10-meter target rifles that are only looked at every once in a great while or is it a collection of vintage 10-meter target rifles that are enjoyed on a regular basis? We will see.

  5. I have a Walther LGM 2 SSP. They corrected the pumping issue you mentioned by having the charging stroke as the lever is closed on the back stroke which is towards the rear. It seems to work well.

    Mike

  6. B.B.

    Are the FWB 600 series rifles old enough to be considered to be classed as “vintage”?

    I just love plinking with my 10 meter rifles – they are just soooo accurate and nice to shoot. Besides being tasty, Cheerios or Froot Loops hanging on a string make fun reactive targets.

    Hank

    • Vanna,

      I have been getting my best accuracy at long range in quite a few guns with the JSB REDESIGNED pellets below. They were mentioned in the video.

      /product/jsb-redesigned-monster-pellets-22-200-ct?p=1420

      They seem to work well past 50 yards. I know you are stretching out your range. Those pellets are worth a try. It looks like more of the slugs I ordered are on back order now. Not sure when they will arrive.

      Don

      • Hi Don,

        Good suggestion for the JSB Redesigned Monsters – Santa brought me a couple of tins!

        Waiting (impatiently) for the new gun to be available. I plan on focusing on the sub-50 yard range for several tins of the 18 grn JSBs before re-tuning specifically for the Redesigned pellets to see how they do. Slugs are on the radar but I have a lot of work to do before I think I will be qualified to shoot at the ranges where they justify their costs.

        That being said, silly me is looking at molds for casting my own slugs.

        Please let us know your experiences with slugs!

        Hank

          • RR
            My .22 Maximus likes the Hades pellets but seems my. 22 Vectis likes them the best. Even better than the JSB and AirArms pellet of the similar weight.

            I want to try the .25 caliber Hades pellets in my Condor SS. I wonder if the .25 caliber Hades pellets or in stock yet. I’ll have to check.

          • RR,

            Santa brought a tin of Hades for the HW100 (she has been good all year!) specially for pesting!

            Looking forward to trying them out. The rifle is already tuned to the regular JSB 15.89 domed pellets so I will be able to do a direct side-by-each comparison.

            • Hank,

              They seem to be good. I have not tried them yet. The HN multi weight slug sample pack has my interest. 2 head sizes for .22. None in .25 that I am aware of. FPS,… along with a “preferable twist rate”,… seems?,.. to be a factor. Not so sure that anything in my stable is up to “snuff” for slugs.

              Much to learn and try to keep up with,… for sure!

              Chris

              • Chris,

                Yup! Lots of stuff to learn/try with slugs. Here are a couple of random thoughts on slugs…

                Fit to the bore and how it engages the rifling are considerations for the diameter and length of the slug. The slugs aren’t as ductile as a pellet so fit is more important.

                Slugs can be shot at higher velocities but will often be fine a typical speeds.

                Because of the (relatively) large contact area (slug to bore) friction is high and lubrication is a good idea. A slug will often shoot 30-50 fps slower than the same weight pellet but with its superior BC the slug overtake the pellet within 50 yards or so.

                The new FX Hybrid slugs are very interesting (except for the price) – a guy I know tried them in his Maximus with good results out to the 50 yards he was shooting starlings at.

                Anyway, I will need to do a lot of shooting before I get to trying slugs seriously – have to learn the gun and tuning. My supplier stocks the H&N sample packs so I might pick up one of those with the gun just for giggles. The owner shoots an Impact and mentioned that he was going to try out the .22/700mm barrel so he will be able to advise me which to try.

                Cheers!
                Hank

                • Hank,

                  Very nice that the supplier (shop owner) has one also. That will be a big benefit by being able to learn from what he tries and has success with. That should cut down your learning curve by quite a bit and maybe save you some $. Did him having one already influence your purchase decision?

                  On bore fit,… do you maybe? get the feeling that you will want to size (every) slug to an exact size? What would you use to do that? I say that because of what we find with pellets. What is on the tin is often not what they are. And,… variances within the tin.

                  My thinking in the end is,.. that I would not trust anything I bought (or) made if I were going for an known and desired exact size. I do agree with you 100% on size. With the much lower power pushing the bullet down the bore vs a firearm,… fit to bore (repeatedly done so) might in fact be “hyper critical” to consistent results at target.

                  I did look briefly at a Mc Master Carr catalog and there is some precision dies that might be good, offering a range of precision hole sizes. There might actually be pellet sizers that could adapt. On the T Robb,… I seem to recall that one of the benefits was that it sized the pellet head (only). Apparently other ones size both the skirt and head to the same size.

                  On lubing,.. I agree that it should be a good benefit to do so. Any thoughts on what to use? Dry or wet? Spray on that leaves a dry film? Etc..

                  Yes,.. much to learn,……. Chris

                  • Chris,

                    Yes, nice the the owner has one. He can “test” any rifle in his (substantial) inventory and that he has his own personal Impact that he is very fond of it says a lot. He mentioned that he had casually shot a magazine (28 pellets) at a 50 yard target and the hole was a bit bigger than a dime but would easily fit under a quarter. Seeing that he said that he needed to learn to relax more when target shooting – trying too hard was not helping his groups. He was shooting with a .25 barrel – wonder what his CTC was for that group.

                    Slugs are interesting but I think too many people think that they are a substitute for real skill. Under 60-70 yards, pellets rule, beyond that the slugs are in their element and the superior BC, higher velocities and better wind-bucking capability really stand out. That being said, if the shooter can’t hit a paint-pail at 150 yards with a laser shooting a slug isn’t going to improve his accuracy. For long range shooting you have to be right on your game because the slightest thing can throw the shot totally off target. The really excellent shooters can (regularly) achieve MOA (… MOP – minute of a pigeon?) accuracy out to 200 yards and they really know their stuff.

                    To me, MOA means nothing as I have always been hunting orientated and MER (Maximum Effective Range) with all shots consistently in a 1 inch circle is the gating factor to me. With current technology the maximum effective range is probably around 125 yards – that is what the technology might be able to do… not what I am capable of LOL!

                    Been thinking about sizing dies for slugs. They are reasonably priced and I might get a set from these people…
                    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564&osCsid=gaudgvdu237m9p0gnd40qdped6

                    Lubing is an interesting subject. Lots of options; there are commercially available products specifically for bullets/slugs but people are also using oils, silicone sprays and even Pledge furniture polish to reduce friction and lead fouling. Haven’t really looked into it yet. Mostly, the lubricant is applied to a pad of paper towels and then the pellets/slugs rolled on the prepared surface and let dry.

                    Anyway, the tinkering, tuning and learning for long range shooting is going to be a real adventure and I think that in spite of the high sticker price on an Impact the cost per hour for this entertainment is going to be very reasonable. A buddy was over visiting; he commented “it must be nice” to have that kinda $$$ for a “BB gun” – I replied that I don’t smoke or drink so that if he would give up his pack a day, case a week habit he could easily afford new toys. Guess that it was nasty of me but I had him shoot my .25 Royale …now he is thinking about quitting smoking LOL!

                    Cheers,
                    Hank

                    • Hank,

                      These (I would guess) are made to fit into some sort of hand press apparatus (without looking further)?? Link saved and will look into further.

                      A block gauge with some funnel effect added and a holder could make a good hand outfit. I would slug the barrel and get something that is precion +/- .001″ steps above and below. Kind of like pellet gage that has your target size somewhere in the middle.

                      Then, where does a choked barrel factor into this theoretical conversation?

                      Chris

                  • Chris,
                    Another good source of YouTube videos on slugs, and other airgun stuff too. This guy makes his own slugs and sells them on ebay. He demonstrates very good accuracy with an entry level Nova Liberty PCP at 100 yards. He has several videos regarding his slugs. He also has an interesting recent video about his experience with the Yong Heng compressor. Slugs are just now becoming more interesting…but really only for someone shooting longer ranges, 100+ yards. Because of the design of the new FX slug, large hollow area and lighter weight 22gr, they may work best in PCPs of lower power, and in choked barrels. Your RW could probably handle any of them. I have watched several video reviews by various airgun YouTubers and they have all demonstrated very good performance with slugs at those longer ranges.
                    Geo https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGPuLw4384KuLzSkGSWLs2Q/airgun-videos

                    • Geo,

                      Thank you. Saved and will check out. I am most interested in .25 data as that is what the RW and M-rod are. Yes, reducing the weight should help to boost the fps. Hollowing it like they are also affects balance. Not so sure I want to start shooting alloy stuff down my barrels just yet,.. (cause you know),… that is the next place slugs for air guns are headed. Heck,… maybe there is even some out there already.

                      I am at the learning stage on bullets and slugs at this point. The better BC is the main interest and the benefits that it can (possibly) bring to my shooting.

                      Chris

                  • Chris USA,

                    My experience with bullets/slugs in Big Bores as well as a .25 PCP that gets 80 FPE out of a 45 grain bullet is that undersized by as little as .001 hurts accuracy. On the other end as long as your bolt of other feed system can push a bullet/slug into the bore that that basically is all the sizing needed for a custom fit. I have sized bullets/slugs with sizing dies mounted in a manual press and have found that much more than .003 oversized to actual bore size is not good for accuracy. I have taken them down in size with multiple precision sizing dies (smaller by .0010 each step) but more than three steps just hurts accuracy. I suspect that it may be that the swaging may cause some deformity that only the bore can detect and react to?
                    Do look for that trailing zero when you compare dies; it is significant!

                    shootski

                    • Shootski,

                      Thank you for the insight. So,… sizing is not the “be all/end all” magic bullet either? 😉 It has it’s own Gremlins lurking as well. Of course it does! It can’t be THAT easy. 🙂

                      Thanks again,….. Chris

            • Hank,

              I hear they have good expansion, but when I shot them in my Tomahawk my first 25 yard 10 shot group would hide under a quarter. I’m impressed.

              P.S. The Exacts which I shot just before these were about 1 1/2″.

            • Hank
              My Vectis is shooting faster than my Maximus. The Hades shot from the Vectis definitely do more damage when they hit.

              I already appointed my new Vectis with the Hades pellets as my new pesting gun.

              Let me know what you think about the Hades pellets when you try them.

              • GF1,

                I put a four magazines (56 pellets – domes/hades/domes/hades) through my .22 HW100 but can only say that I think that the hades were grouping a little bigger than the domes.

                I have to do a proper test because between a dirty barrel, the gusting wind and very cold temperatures neither the rifle nor myself were shooting well. I could see the groups spreading and shifting as the rifle got colder and numb-fingers me didn’t help at all.

                I’ll have to reserve my comments until I can give the hades a fair test.

                Hank

                • Hank
                  I wouldn’t mix them up like that.

                  I found that either pellet don’t group good if I do that. I guess what I call seasoning the barrel is what works for me.

                  My JSB 15.89’s work good if I only shoot them. Same with the Hades. When I switch to the other pellet I have to shoot about 4-5 shots for the gun to come back in.

                  And here’s what is funny that I found. My Maximus that I modified to accept the 3000 psi hpa 13 cubic inch 1200 psi regulated bottle will shoot pretty much everything I throw at it. Here is the ones I’m talking about. JSB 15.89 and 18 grain. The AirArms 15.89. RWS Superdomes, and Gamo match diabolo pellets. And the JSB Hades pellets.

                  Now here is what happens with the Vectis. The Superdomes are all over the place as well as the Gamo pellets. The AirArms and Jsb 15.89 are good. The 18 grain JSB’s throw fliers every once in a while. But the JSB Hades pellets make small clover leaf groups.

                  And both guns was at 50 yards. As you can see my Maximus seems to be not pellet picky but the Vectis is. So I don’t think we should say that a given pellet isn’t as good as a another. I think it should be more like we need to find the right gun for that pellet. How about that twist on the subject. 🙂

                  • GF1,

                    Wondering about the seasoning – can see that when switching brands and alloys but from the video tour of the JSB plant, all the lead is dipped from the same pot.

                    I shot a mag (14 pellets) of the domes then a mag of the hades then repeated that. Between the cold and being all bundled up I know that my hold wasn’t very consistent so I am not too surprised that the groups were not as tight as the normally are.

                    Think that I will stick to shooting my 10 meter guns indoors until the weather outside doesn’t require gloves, sweaters and ski-jackets.

                    I have quite a stock of different pellets. Like your idea of buying guns to suit the pellets… can I mention to my wife that you suggested that?

                    • Hank
                      I seen it going from different pellets of the same weight and same brand on many different guns. Don’t ask me why exactly it’s happening. I’m thinking it’s more of a fit thing.

                      And sure you can tell your wife. I even got a few guns for sale if you want to give it a shot and see what happens. 🙂

                    • Hank,

                      “Like your idea of buying guns to suit the pellets… can I mention to my wife that you suggested that?”

                      Uhhhh? You might want to hold off a “wee bit” on that (very inventive) way to acquire more air gun arsenal. I mean,.. with still having to get the brand new FX .22 Impact,… and all.

                      Just my most humble 2 cents on the matter,…………. Chris 😉

                • Hank,

                  As for GF1’s theory on “seasoning”,… I would say that for sure would apply to different alloy mixes. Regarding the same alloy,…. head sizes could play into the mix (if) one pellet is taking out more lead deposits (or) leaving more in the rifling. Maybe.

                  I did try that when I first got back into air gunning and can not say for sure that I could notice it. One “off” day can blow a BIG hole into what you “think” you have nailed down.

                  I will say,.. GF1 shoots a whole bunch,.. so I suppose that does warrant lending him some “street cred” on the theory. 😉

                  Chris

                  • Chris
                    “street cred” maybe a little anyway. 😉

                    But I think it’s more about size and fit. Maybe even heat. Maybe the different fit pellet does deposit lead different in the barrel.

                    I don’t know exactly why. But I do know that I have seen the change happen when going from one pellet to different pellet. Heck I have seen it in .22 rimfire guns using the same brand and bullet type but different weight or velocity projectiles. It’s almost gaurenteed that I have to let a few shots go by before the gun comes in and groups again after a switch.

                    All I know is what I seen happen throughout time.

                    • GF1,

                      Yea,… only a “little”. We can’t have you struttin’ around like some know it all Rooster,…. now can we? 😉 Got to keep you “in check”,.. after all!

                      😉 Chris

                  • Chris,

                    When seriously testing pellets I will clean and “prime” the barrel with a couple of shots to settle things down. Haven’t been doing that when checking different head sizes though.

                    No “reply” button on your previous post (again). Been thinking about selling off the guns that I don’t use a lot to fund other things that are becoming interesting. Figure that the Impact alone is going to keep me entertained for quite a while so it makes sense to focus my attention more closely.

                    Yup, “street cred” is something to pay attention to.

                    Hank

  8. Vana2,

    I have NO clue why you think this is “*OFF TOPIC*”
    I think you have done a service to airgunners who read B.B.’s blog! Especially the new ones! If they don’t get the message by watching the video they never will. I enjoyed the links Matt Dubber provided! The one almost made me feel like I was back in advanced Ground School! I fell asleep half way through it…joking! (Inside joke understood by almost anyone who was in the military and knows what happens when the lights are shut off!)

    shootski

    • Shootski,

      I found a better formatted link to the “A Team” Benjamin PCP tuning instructions. It points to a site for the latest version that did not work for me, but the link below is easier to read:

      http://www.bcsportsmen.org/ft/A_Team_PCP_Tuning_Procedures.pdf

      lol, I spent an hour formatting the post in your link so I could read it better before I looked for this one. There may be some differences I have not compared them in detail. I had a similar version at one time but can not remember where I filed it. Good information.

    • Shootski,

      Never was in the military, but I bet those classes were very much like, and about as well received as, the 15 or so annual OSHA mandated safety films that I sat through as an industrial maintenance man year in and year out. They were pretty exciting the first 10 to 15 times you watched them, but after 42 years of it I can hardly keep my eyes open thinking about them.

      Half

  9. shootski,

    Off topic because it was not about a 10 meter gun??

    I thought that the subject of velocity (which is always close to a shooters’ heart) would be of general interest. I am reading a lot about airgun tuning and it is amazing how many people are tuning into the transonic range and are surprised that accuracy goes out the window.

    I know what you mean about trying to stay awake during those lights-off training sessions – having taught college for a couple of years – I was the one GIVING them LOL!

    Hank

  10. B.B,

    I am most curious to know why only about seventeen names (by my count, maybe a few more) were compromised because of this hack and not everyone who post here. What was the common denominator? Inquiring minds would like to know

    Bugbuster

  11. Going way off subject here.

    Had to post. I’m about ready to have a exciting weekend. My oldest daughter went to the hospital this afternoon to have her first baby and me to be a first time Grandpa. Man making me remember when she was born about 22 years ago January 2. They kept saying the middle of January for her baby. I kept saying it was going to be around her birthday. So a nice birthday present for her I would say. And can’t believe I’m actually a bit nervous right now.

    I think I’ll go shoot to take my mind off it a bit. Now I just wait. We was texting but they said she had to stop for now. There was no texting back when we had her. Anyway I’ll be quiet now. Had to say.

      • TT
        Haha you know it. Now I get to see what mom thinks (my daughter) when she see’s him out doing donuts on the 4 wheeler when he gets older. And yes suppose to be a boy. She always use to tell me I worry to much when she did. She would always say I know what I’m doing dad. Well we’ll see.

        And I think you might drink more than a extra beer for me. I think I’m going to need it. And thanks.

            • Congratulations on being a first time Grandpa! I only have one grand child, a grand-daughter, and she just turned 26 in October. She has lived with us since she was 13, and she still lives with us. She has a serious boyfriend who is in military officer training. They are talking about marriage next spring and we will miss her terribly when she leaves.
              Geo

              • Geo
                I know what you mean. I know your talking about your grand-daughter. But I can relate. I definitely missed my daughter (the one that is now having the baby) when she moved out about a year and a half ago. We texted everyday. Well and still do. Sometimes we text for a while. Sometimes just to tell each other love you. I’m for sure thankful we have a good relationship and we get along. I wish everybody could be so lucky.

    • GF1,

      I welcome you to the Grandfather Club. Spend as much time as you can with your Grandson. He will grow up so fast. Leave him with lots of wonderful memories of visiting with his Grandparents.

    • Hey Gun, CONGRATULATIONS man!!! I know you have got to be extremely excited as you should be. Hope all goes well and your a grandpa to a happy and healthy baby boy or girl.
      Truly can’t believe how fast it goes. My oldest (and only lol) was born Jan 18th coming up on 15yrs ago. Was the only moment where time stopped for me. She was born and they put her right into my arms and I just stared at this beautiful little girl in amazement that something so perfect could come from someone so messed up like me. Cherish every moment cause as you know it flies by. Enjoy brother and again, all the congratulations in the world man!!! Keep us posted on how everything goes.

      • Mr.Josh
        Yep I’ll never forget when my two girls were born. And yep time flys by. The one having the baby will be 22 in a few more days and the youngest is 19.

        Been up off and on all night texting with her and her husband. I’m starting to get nervous. Hope the baby (he) comes soon and definitely praying all goes well. I was nervous worrying about everything when we had our two daughters. And as it goes you never stop worrying. But thanks. Hopefully I’ll know something soon.

  12. This really is off topic, but I’m playing the “FRIDAY BLOG” card.

    I got a .22 caliber Seneca Aspen for Xmas and got some really different velocity results with mine, out of the box, than BB got with the pre-prodution .22 caliber one that he tested awhile back. I just want to share those results with anyone who may be interested. I thought I would do it on this current blog and also make a quick post of the data on part 5 of BB’s test to leave it tied to the topic.

    The first thing that you are going to see is the “TRUTH” as spoken by The Godfather many times throughout that report. That TRUTH is that with this gun you NEED a chronograph. My gun is not performing anything like BB’s was so it would be a mistake for me to base my charging/filling strategy on just what he reported at that time.

    I shot full strings at HI and Lo settings with Hobby pellets,as BB did, and I also shot JSB Monsters, which BB shot for accuracy but didn’t use during the velocity portion of his testing. I also included JSB Jumbos as a mid weight pellet. I use an FX Radar chronograph and I graphed everything and will just let you draw your own conclusions about what pellet weight the gun shoots best and at what power setting. I HIGHLY recommend this chrony, by the way

    I don’t know if any of these are accurate yet, and I will be testing them and many others soon, but I’m really hopin’ the Jumbos work out. That is a mighty fine power curve. I’ll share whatever I find.

    Here’s my results.

    Half

    • Half
      It looks like your gun likes the low power setting. Pretty flat curve on low. The Hobby or the Jumbo pellet would be my choice on low setting. That is if they are accurate.

      I had to edit my comment after I remembered what you said after toping the gun off after each shot or a couple shots. That’s probably what I would do on the high power setting. Sounds like it will be a versatile gun as in the way you want to pump it. And again if it’s accurate.

      • Gunfun1,

        Wishing you a Grandchild that hasn’t a Apgar Score of 10 across the board as well as a daughter who is healthy and will be a great mother! Remember your only job is to unconditionally LOVE the Grandbabies and SPOIL them!

        shootski

      • GF1,

        I have something going on. Normally if you reply to one of my comments it shows up in my INBOX on my email, but this reply and Chris’s reply didn’t show up, yet Benji-Don did. Anyone else noticing this?

        Well anyway, back to your comment. I especially like the Jumbos since I can get 16 shots with just a 12 FPS spread, without doing any pumping along the way. Just fill and forget until you shoot a mag and a half then refill. And even though it’s on the low power setting, it’s still over 19 FPE, which ain’t nuthin’ ta sneeze at!

        Did you notice how much higher my gun shoots the Hobby pellet than BB’s test gun did? Do you think it’s just a higher hammer spring tension, since I doubt they test the gun on the assembly line, after turning the adjustment X number of turns, to make sure they didn’t miscount. Can you imagine doing that all day and NOT counting wrong, at least a few times a day? I have to believe that it is a mistake of some kind rather than a redesign of the valve, since that velocity exceeds the advertised speed by over 150 FPS.

        I’ll for sure be posting the accuracy results when I get them.

        Half

        • Half
          Since the other day when they had the blog problem I was receiving blog replys in the section where I get notifications for sales and such. Now it’s back to normal like I use to receive them in my in box.

          And I would say it’s just the striker spring adjustment. I have had probably 7 or more Marauder rifles over the years and that’s between the gen 1’s and gen 2’s. Those guns were all a little different in power or should I say velocity.

          I wouldn’t worry about it. I think it’s just variation in the springs and probably assembly and setting the adjustments like you say.

          But yep it sounds like a nice gun. I might end up with one sooner or later.

    • Half,

      You are the DATA MASTER! What a fine, fine display of data! 🙂

      Keep us posted as you move further. Looking good so far. After that,…. then the all important (accuracy phase) of testing,…… 😉

      Chris

      • Chris USA,

        Thank you, Chris. I try to make it purty! Your reply didn’t make it to my inbox for my email account for some reason, so I just saw this by browsing the comments. Have you had any problems like that? Maybe related to the problem from the other day?

        This gun looks like it was hand tuned to the JSB Jumbos, as far as velocity is concerned. That many shots with such a small extreme spread would make you think that it had a regulator in it. I don’t really think it was tuned, I think it was just assembled with too much spring tension on the hammer, ’cause it’s shootin’ much faster than it’s supposed to. If the Jumbos or some other 16 grain pellet shoots accurately at that speed, I sure won’t complain though. The Hobby did a fair job on Lo setting also, though I wouldn’t expect them to be very accurate at a long distance or even at short distance at those speeds. I don’t know what to expect from the Monsters but they shot at a good energy level on Lo and still had a decent spread. We’ll see.

        I have lots of pellets to shoot for accuracy and with my new FX radar clipped to the end of the barrel it’s easy to monitor every shot for velocity as well. And I can do it outdoors, at a longer range, even in the dark, since it doesn’t use light and Siri tells me the velocity and I don’t have to read it.

        Half

        • Half,

          I opted out of replies getting sent on my phone and it seemed to knock it out the mail too. I do believe they both are tied with e-mail. I do not need additional phone hassles with just getting my first smart phone. I do not use it that way.

          Chris

          • Chris
            And you call me Gramps. 😉

            And why don’t you use your phone for emails. All you do is click on it and read it. Just like your computer or even when you text on your phone.

            Chris check into it more. You’ll see it ain’t that hard.

            • GF1,

              I do get e-mail on it. What I do not want is crap coming through all day and then having to clear it. Not to mention the phone showing a new message throughout the day. I opted out of PA notifications because they were one of the worst. Not to mention other sites that have my e-mail.

              I am keeping it simple for now. Calls, receive text from family and reply, maybe take some pics and the navigation which I did try. I knew where I was going, but it kept redirecting me anyways (shortest route I suppose). It did work pretty nice though.

              At the family get together, many had their phones in their face much of the time. Some not as much. Some, none. Mine was off,… in the car.

              Chris

    • Half,

      Thanks for sharing, an Aspen has been on my wish list. I hope yours is accurate, I think most of them are.

      I always like the graphs, they make it easier for me to see the relationships of the data.

      The Jumbos on high power for pesting look to have 3 or 4 shots that can be maintained by a few pumps, either after each shot or after 3 or 4 shots. That is the way I would shoot it. You can easily enable me to get one if its accurate. And for target and plinking look great on low power.

      Let us know more about your radar chronograph. They seem to be the way to go.

      Don

      • Don
        I didn’t see your comment here about using the high power setting and toping the gun off after shots when I just edited my comment.

        It’s looking like it might be a cool gun. I have almost bought one and haven’t yet. I want to know if it’s accurate.

      • Don,

        HAM has had some recent reviews of the latest chrony’s. I am very impressed. Very small,.. some are. My Shooting Chrony with corded remote read out does just fine. It will give the occasional “error” reading for seemingly no reason,… but overall it has been quite reliable. I use the BB method of indoors testing with a 500W halogen shining at a white ceiling. It works very well.

        Yup,… knowing when to give it a “top off” pump or two seems to be key. That sucker could shoot even fps forever with the right (shoot/pump/shoot) combo!

        Chris

        • Yep, I also have a shooting chrony. My errors are usually when I don’t get lined up over the center of the chrony. There are a few errors I just can’t figure out. Used mine today tuning my Mrod for the JSB monster 25.39 gr pellets. Hope to test accuracy tomorrow.

          • Benji-Don,

            I left some of my personal impressions on the FX in a comment below to RR. On my old PACT Precision Chrono, just getting my cell phone too close to the electronics would cause me to get screwy reading sometimes, as well as the alignment needing to be just so-so, as you just stated. Also, I found that the setup that worked just fine when I stopped one session would start giving me trouble the next session. It is finicky with BBs as well. All went away with the FX.

            Half

        • Chris,

          I too would like the latest bell and whistle, but my Caldwell and Kindle will likely do just fine for a long time. Is it as accurate as a FX? Who cares. It does what I want. I would not likely trade mine for one. I would feel I was taking advantage of someone. 😉

          • RR,

            The FX radar isn’t anymore accurate than my PACT Precision Chronograph, in fact they read every shot identically when I tested them together. It is WAAAY more convenient to use, especially on a PCP, since it just clips onto the end of the barrel. That may get in the way of cocking on a springer and it may have an impact on harmonics. I’m not sure. The reviews I’ve seen were with PCPs and they reported that accuracy was not affected on those guns. It can also be used on a shorty tripod in front of the gun like any other chrony or if need be can be slid several inches back under the barrel if your bench is short. But the real convenience is there’s no real alignment to worry about and it doesn’t care about the lighting (actually works at night, in total darkness, if you like to shoot at a lighted target on a lazy summer’s eve) and it tells you, audibly, each shot as you take it while displaying the last 10 shots in your string on your smartphone or tablet. I don’t get errors in the form of missed shots or velocities that are obviously 3 times what they should be. My PACT unit has to be turned off and back on sometimes to unfreeze it. Haven’t had that with the FX either. The strings can be Named, Saved, Copied and Pasted into other documents and added to emails and texts or just stored in the app on your phone. And it fits in the pocket of my “Roomy Fit” carpenter’s pants.

            As the old Alka Seltzer commercial would say, “Try it. You’ll like it!”

            Half

            • Half,

              Right now my Caldwell is doing just fine. It records to my Kindle app and I can name and sort strings, etc. as you describe. If the Caldwell dies I will give it a try, unless something better happens along by then.

            • Half,

              In my opinion,… anything attached to the barrel will skew accuarcy testing through a change in harmonnics. It does sound like a nice, simple chrony set up though. I would not use it in conjunction with accuarcy testing because it would be off the gun normally.

              Chris

              • Chris,

                The reviews that I’ve seen that had the FX mounted on the barrel specifically said that their accuracy was not effected by having the thing on the barrel. They were reviewers that I trust, one of whom is Giles of Airgun Gear Show. I don’t recall if springers were used though. My thoughts are that harmonics are a greater factor in springers, because of the spring, and firearms, because of the violent high pressure build up from the burning propellant. I think that a small bore PCP may not generate that much vibration. Case in point, the cheapest 4 X 15 Tasco scope is safe on a small bore PCP but wouldn’t stand a chance on a 30-30, much less a magnum springer. Just my thoughts and I will test accuracy with the best pellet with the radar attached and without, so I will know for sure.

                Half

                • Half,

                  Very good. Looking forwards to hearing the results of that.

                  From my real world experience with the Maximus,… moving the barrel band did affect the POI. What was on end of the muzzle did too,…. stock cap OR proper air stripper OR a baffle insert unit.

                  With the M-rod, I have played with removing the baffles and replacing them with bronze weights (bushings) up to 5 3/4 oz. Every variation made a difference to some degree.

                  Those are both PCP’s. My minimum range is usually 30 yards and my usual pinking range is 50 yards,… so that distance may show things better than a closer range. I attribute all of that to harmonics,… even if slight. I also respect what you say about air gun reviewers that you trust. I do as well.

                  Keep us posted as to what you get,…….. Chris

                  • Chris,

                    The reviewers didn’t show the actual targets, as I recall, so it may come down to just how one defines accuracy and what constitutes a change in it. I’m sure that I will be applying my own standards to my tests and that there will be readers that disagree with my conclusions.

                    You’ve done your work and seen your results, so who am I to argue at this point. I totally trust that you saw what you saw and that all you’re doing is trying to further this great pastime we call airgunning. Maybe I’ll have something to add after I do some work, but right now I’m just parroting what I’ve researched and made some speculations.

                    Won’t be adding anything to the mix today though. It’s cats and dogs here in the Derby City.

                    Half

                    • Half,

                      Very well. What I found was that accuracy was (sometimes) affected by what I was trying. What I also found was that for whatever I was trying,… that the POI was (almost always) affected. So, kind of a mix of the two things I suppose.

                      You do (superb) testing and post great results. I have 100% confidence in whatever you come up with.

                      Raining “cat’s and dog’s” here too! ;( 54 degrees F is nice for December end though! Getting out Friday at 59 F was good.

                      Chris

                • Half
                  I just read your and Chris’s comment about harmonics.

                  Me and Chris did a competition at one hundred yards. I had my .25 Marauder already setup with weight in the muzzle instead of baffles plus many other mods. It did help my Marauder. After that if I remember right Chris done it to his Marauder and it helped.

                  And as far as moving the barrel band in different locations I did that back when I had my Benjamin Discovery’s and it made the gun more accurate. I mentioned it to Chris and he done it on his Maximus and it helped.

                  So even with pcp’s there has to be harmonics or something involved with it. Oh and if I remember right the AirForce Edge has weights available you can purchase to add to the barrel shroud. I would like to get a set and try on my Condor SS and see if it helps that gun get even better than it is. But haven’t checked into it yet to see if they fit.

                  Anyway figured I would mention that.

              • Mike in Atl,
                My understanding from researching the RADAR Chronographs is that in the consumer range of gear the only one (to date) that does the multiple distance velocity observations is the LabRADAR; the FX does muzzle velocity only (although I guess you could set it up down range if it could detect the firing report. Still puts it at risk.) I bought the LabRADARbecause over the years I have sent quite a number of sky screens and even a few chronographs to the parts bin when collecting data for BC and other Dope figures. If I had gone with the Lab when it first came out it might have already payed its on way by now! There have been very expensive (thousands of €$¥£ pick your money unit) RADAR Chronographs for decades but it wouldn’t leave much for ammo to shoot for it.

                shootski

                • Shootski,

                  The Labradar does indeed look like the tool you need but at north of 600 bucks, for me not so much. The FX at only 200 looks good to me if only it could read at different distances.

                  Doing some more research on the FX after posting to Half I found that, as you said, you would need to place it downrange to pickup those speeds.

                  Mike

              • Mike,

                Your replies aren’t coming to my inbox so I only see them if I rescroll the comments, so I’m sorry for the late response. It strictly reads muzzle velocity and provides the usual stats like Hi, Lo, Avg, ES and SD. If you put in pellet weight I think it provides FPE at the Avg velocity, as well.

                It’s pretty cool to be shooting a nice group and hear “721”, “718”, “720”, and then see a shot drop a half inch and hear “625” and know right away that you’re off the power curve or off the reg and that shot should be thrown out.

                Half

                  • Mike,

                    The video manual says it reads 8 inches in front of it and 3 inches on either side and above and below. I doesn’t really explain if it is triggered by sound or not. One of the issues that Giles was having when he tried to compare the LabRadar and others to the FX in real time for accuracy was that the microphone that triggers the LabRadar needed to be taped to the muzzle of his suppressed sub 12 FPE PCP to work properly.I assume that the FX doesn’t trigger this way since it has no external mic, anyway, and it has settings that let you adjust the return so that it doesn’t mistake random things as pellets or ignore pellets that are small and need more return. It also has a setting for Nerf guns that I don’t think have much, if any, report.

                    Knowing all of this, my best guess is that if you put it downrange at 25 yards and can place a shot 3 inches or less over the top of it it will read it. It reports and stores the info on a smartphone through Bluetooth and I don’t know where you would have to place your phone relative to the Radar to maintain that connection. The unit actually hangs upside down when it is on the gun compared to its orientation when on a tripod.

                    That’s all I can tell you. I won’t be shooting at mine downrange since Chairgun has been telling me all I need to know about expected terminal velocity based on the measured muzzle velocity. Hope this helps,

                    Half

                    • Halfstep,

                      I agree with your concept of getting the item that fills your needs.
                      I will add that the LabRADAR seems to have owners who hate it and owners that love it. IF the posts are to be believed and being honest then it appears to me that the group that hates it doesn’t intuitively understand how it sets up and functions along with not reading the manual or watching the videos. The folks that love it (including me) understand how RADAR functions or have read the manual and/or learned from the good instructional videos. To clear up a point the LabRADAR has three modes to acquire the start timing impulse: the first is by an internal microphone, the second is that when it is turned on and not timed out it will pulse the signal down range and if it detects a return (echo) it will start the timing process, and finally there is the external microphone that should NOT be taped or affixed to the barrel but positioned as specified in the instruction manual for airgun and moderated weapons. Giles did not apparently understand that there is a multilevel adjustment for sensitivity for detecting quieter muzzle reports. By using tape to affix the microphone to the silencer who knows which mechanical noise (Hammer, Tappet Valve, Sear…) triggered the acoustic sensor
                      There is a way to get it to function with Bows and Crossbows. No Hank they said nothing about slingshots!

                      shootski

                    • Half,

                      Depends on the bluetooth, there are several levels, but basically it is wifi.

                      I use a bluetooth speaker for music and it seems for my application about 100 feet is the range.

                      I understand about shooting at your chrony, even a light weight airgun might kill it if you miss (or hit it) shootski has more above.

                      If my chrony dies I may get the FX, if I hit the lotto yes labradar would be the way to go.

                      Mike

          • RR
            I have a Caldwell also. Works just fine. That is when I decide to use it. I can’t remember the last time I used it. And for some reason I can tell when my guns start changing velocity. Wonder how that could be. 🙂

      • Benji-Don,

        See? That’s why I wanted everyone to make their own interpretation. I, personally, was more excited about the Jumbos on Lo. The idea of pumping from 2600 to 3700 ( which, I swear is no harder than going from 1000 to 2000 or 0 to 1000, for that matter, very easy) and getting 16 shots at over 19 FPE ! That’s my idea of cool and very useful in a hunting/ survival situation.

        Half

  13. Hey all,

    My Maximus has a (male foster, fill port) valve leak. 🙁

    Better to just replace or is there some “shade tree” fixes out there? It bled off to 0 after charging,… slowly, but audible. Out the fill port,… NOT the valve.

    I did “slam it”/shock it with the tank,…. but something is still going on. Dirt? I doubt. I am careful there. I also use some silicone chamber oil every other fill or so. A drop or two. Do they come apart? Remove, clean and blow out?

    Any advice appreciated,…… Chris

    • Chris
      Empty all the air out of the gun. Then unscrew only the Foster fitting out of the gun. Once you get it out tap the check valve out. See if yours has a o-ring or if it’s a slip fit with no o-ring.

      If it has a o-ring clean it and replace the o-ring. If it’s a slip fit kind clean it up and slip it back in. Use some silicone oil on the o-ring and check valve. If it doesn’t have the o-ring oil it also with some silicone. Then assemble back on the gun and fill the gun as normal and see what happens.

      I think you will be ok after that. Let us know.

      • HEY GRAMPS! 🙂

        Thanks for the advice. Will try Sunday as Sat. is X-mas big family get together day,.. all day.

        Will reply back. My very first PCP (anything) issue. 🙁

        With everything that has gone on over the Summer and crazy work,… the poor gals’ do not get shot as much as they need. I did get out today. The thought being to top off all 3,… M-rod, RW and Maximus and shoot. That puts the tank down and that means the Shoebox needs to get used,… plus the LP compressor to feed it. Believe it or not,… I do try to “practice what I preach”. (at least cycle everything once a month)

        Chris

        • Chris
          That’s pretty good not having some kind of issue along the way.

          Once you open the gun up and look at the fitting and check valve I’m pretty sure you will know the story. I’ll be waiting to hear what it looks like. You will have to post some pictures with your new (smart) phone. 🙂

          And yep I’m suddenly feeling my age. Well at least I’m not too old of a Grandpa. But really I’m very happy.

          • GF1,

            I suppose I have been lucky. Then again,… I do not swap out my guns like you do either. Run out in traffic enough and eventually you will get “hit”. 😉 All a matter of beating the odds. Play less,… get burnt less.

            Chris

            • Chris
              True. But you know me. I like trying out different guns.

              But as it goes time will tell the tell. Everything wears out in some way sooner or later. What is your oldest pcp right now? Your Marauder. You have shot your Maximus more lately haven’t you. Maybe the more you shoot the more chance of getting hit by the car. Who knows.

              • GF1,

                Yup,… I know you. Yup,… everything will wear out sooner or later. (some guns should have never been “let out of the gate” either) All guns have had minimal shooting. Ohio Winter,.. now,… of course. Today was near 60,… so I forced myself to get out and get set up. I did enjoy. I also see that I am getting “rusty”,…. fill to what psi?, hold over was what? I do have notes, of course,… but there is nothing that compares with staying in daily (or near daily) practice. (like you)

                Chris

                  • GF1,

                    .25 RW,… of course,.. and the .25 M-rod. Not the Maximus,… obviously. Nothing to brag about,.. but not bad either for not having shot in quite awhile. 50 yards is my go to. Some “off” shots can not be explained,… other than not pellet sorting. Straight from the tin was the order of the day. Then again,.. if I am not in practice,… all bets are off on any kind of a definitive (excuse) for not doing better.

                    Chris

                    • Chris
                      At least you got to enjoy some shooting.

                      But yep practice, practice, practice is the name of the game. 🙂

      • Don,

        Yup,… can’t be too careful.

        1) Gauge reads 0 psi.
        2) Dry fire a few times. Nothing but hammer/spring noise.
        3) While I do not have a degassing tool/screw,… I did have a 3″ screw with the right thread to work. Bottom and give a slight, easy 1/8 ~ 1/4 turn,…. nothing. In fact, I think I got it a few years ago just for that purpose.
        4) Finally, when removing the Foster fill nipple, go slow and easy. Especially at the end.

        Chris

      • Don,

        In fact,.. I did get that screw (at work or local small hardware store) awhile back in order to install the HUMA regulator kit in the Maximus. I think I was “in” 4 times before the final 5th. time. That was up to 2800 – 3000 psi each time. So yea,….. I do have some practice with depressurizing safely.

        Chris

        • Chris
          How did your Christmas get together go yesterday? And no Grandpa yet. Getting closer though.

          I think you said you was going to work on the Maximus Foster fitting leak today. Let us know how it goes.

        • ChrisU,

          I have a degassing tool that came with the Marauder but it doesn’t fit the Fortitude. For the Fortitude I used a bolt and a piece of brass rod I cut to the right length to put in front of the bolt to open the valve.

          I decided to exercise my Marauder after reading your discussions. It had been setting about 7 months it still had 2,700 psi, same as it had when I put it away. I tuned it yesterday for the JSB 25.39 gr. monster Redesigned pellets .22 cal. Getting ready to punch some paper today.

          Don

  15. B.B.

    Many thanks to everyone for assisting with my hand pump issue. It was, indeed, the check valve. In the video Geo791 posted, this was the last thing the fellow looked at and corrected (I do appreciate his thorough how-to). This was the first and only thing I looked at and corrected (I had a lot of help with information and ideas I am grateful for).
    I am posting a photo of the a check valve. On mine, the black o-ring had slipped off. It looked okay; no visible damage, so I slipped it back on, put everything back in place and proceeded to attempt to pump air into the .177. Voila!!!
    Many thanks to everyone.
    ~ken

    • RR,

      It looks like Gamo is coming back with some good airguns. I got such a bad taste in my mouth 20 years ago that I have stayed away from them. I do like some of the oldies though.

  19. I set up my .22 Marauder yesterday to shoot the JSB Redesigned Monster Pellets 25.39 gr at 750 fps with a fill at 2,700 psi. The 2,700 psi is what my tank was at and seemed like a good start. It is now shooting the JSB 15.89 gr pellets at 960 fps, I think that is a little too fast. I tethered the gun to the tank for the target shots.

    Previously I had the Marauder set up for the JSB 15.89 pellets and lots of shots. I had the hammer set light and the metering screw 1 1/4 turn out. That gave me lots of good shots with the lighter pellets but was lobbing the Monster pellets at less than 500 fps, ok for close shots but not good for distance the accuracy may be ok but the trajectory was too much to deal with for longer and variable distances.

    Now I have the Marauder set with the metering screw at 3 1/4 turn out, the hammer spring tension at 4 turns in and the preload at 2 turns in.

    I had hoped for a little better results with the monster pellets. I am going to use B.B.’s excuse; I shot out the x and lost my reference. I thought I had the gun sighted to hit a little low, oh well. I went ahead and shot a 10 shot group. It came out at 0.4 inches C2C.

    Below is the target.

    I hate to burn a bunch of the monster redesigned pellets building a power curve. The JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Monster .22 Cal, 25.39 Grains, are the same weight and a little cheaper. I have a full tin or two of those and they have not been as accurate as the redesigned pellets. I think I will use those instead and then test the results with the Redesigned pellets.

    Don

      • GF1,

        That will have to wait till the snow melts this spring. I can get to 42 yds in the back yard but going there from 35 is just too much trouble for an extra 7 yards. I think it will hold up at least to 50. One problem with the Marauder is the multitude of variables. I just picked 750 fps as a practical velocity without pushing the envelope to much on the power settings. Another 100 or so fps may be better at 100 yds????? or not.

        I forget what my RAW is doing for fps with the redesigned pellets, it does well at 100 yards with them. I haven’t got to paper yet but have been hitting aluminum cans with ease at 100yds with the RAW.

        I wish I knew what kind of testing JSB did to change the design for the redesigned pellets. They look like a hybrid of a cylindrical and diabolo pellet.

        Don

        • I just checked my RAW with the JSB redesigned 25.39 pellets. Here is the results:

          10 shots Average velocity 944 fps, Energy 50.2 ft-lbs, std deviation 2.53, and spread of 8 fps.

          As set up it shoots the JSB 15.89 pellets at 1113 fps.

              • I have to change what I was saying about the redesigned pellets. I would have sworn there was a short cylindrical section just behind the head of the pellet. I just put on some reading glasses and gave them a close look. The skirt is tapered all the way to the waist. As shown in the picture. Many of the pellets have a change in color for a short distance at the waist. Maybe that is what gave me the impression of a short cylindrical section.

                They have shot very well for me at longer distances in any case.

                Now the “not” redesigned pellets look different than the picture on the tin; more like what I was talking about. There are actual pellet pictures for both types at the links above. Maybe they have changed also. I will have to try them again.

                At this point I have confused everyone including myself. When it stops raining I will test both pellets and post the results. Sorry for the confusion.

                • Don
                  I bookmarked both links of the pellets.

                  It looks like the first design is like the .177 caliber JSB 10.34 grain pellets I like.

                  The redesigned ones look like normal diabolo pellets. Maybe that design makes more drag and stabilizes the pellet better.

                  I would like to do some side to side comparisons of both pellets to see what they do in close and out far. I will have to get some.

  20. Off topic:

    BB,

    I must comment. This blog has the ability to generate (so much) conversation/comments. (139 to this second) I visit “The Daystate Owner’s Club” on an daily basis (trust me, they welcome anyone interested,… as it should be),… as I have one,… and often there is no new comments and maybe a dozen on a “hot” day. DS is world wide and super high end, to boot!

    You got ya’ some kind of hoo-doo magic going on is all I can say. 😉

    Perhaps?,…. in the world of popular blogs,… that is why you are “The Godfather of Airguns”? I do (not) know.

    On that,… why are you called that? Sure,.. someone called you that one day and it stuck,…… but why? Why/how?,… in your usual “humble” opinion do you account for that? I do not think that any other blog even comes close with the level of reader involvement/activity that we all here, take for granted.

    Chris

    • Chris U,

      I think it is because Edith and B.B. required us to respect each other on the blog. Edith’s ethics and ability to call us out for infractions with no animosity still makes me consider what I post every time. The standards were set and we are following them. That combined with B.B.’s honesty in his reviews sets the tone. This is the only social media I join in and that is why.

      There is so much to learn on this blog, some of the others are also good technically, but this one teaches you also to be a better person.

      Don

      • Don,

        I could not have said it better myself. Although I may push the envelope sometimes, I keep reminding myself that this is a family show.

        Also as you say, the vast amount of knowledge and experience available here is astounding.

    • Chris,

      Thanks. This is the hottest blog in the shooting sports.

      In 2013 while filming the 2014 season of “American Airgunner” host Rossi Morealle was going around the Round Table introducing his guests and when he got to me he momentarily forgot my name, so he said, “And here is the Godfather of Airguns…” I liked the handle so I trademarked it.

      B.B.

  21. B.B., and Readership,

    I know B.B. has experience shooting Big Bore bullets/slugs out of airguns for quite a few years so maybe you (Tom) could do a search of your past posts on the subject (perhaps a listing of the elegant ones) as well as adding any new ideas and thoughts now that the Airgun community at large seems to be embracing them. The various effects of lubricating rounds, the different types of PB alloys, and the effects of various barrel configurations (Choked/Unchoked) as well as ranges and the steep power curve required to reach out just a little farther. At a minimum It is not ever a bad time to remind shooters of the downside of high BC ammo as well as the upside! Not to mention the need for a CHRONOGRAPH…Lol!

    shootski

    • Shootski,

      You have summed up what goes on here every day. I know the big bore guns are still not typical blog subjects but they are getting more attention.

      I spent quite a few years shooting black powder guns and learned from some old timers. I say keep an open mind and experiment. Much of the theory is developed after someone has an idea and finds it works. With the larger bore it is easier to cast quality bullets/ammo/pellets, each bore and power will optimize with a specific lube, weight and shape etc. I think there is a lot to improve on in the large bore projectiles.

      Now would be a great time to be in charge of developing big bore airgun setups with unlimited resources. I would start with computer modeling with goals of target, medium, and large game configurations. Even though I think most of the advancements come from new ideas refinement comes from modeling with science.

      Maybe sabot bullets could play a big role in upping the velocity of big bores for a flatter trajectory or going to helium, just a thought.

      Don

      • Don,

        I have often thought of the sabot. They should do fine in big bores without silencers, shrouds or air strippers of some kind, but I can see someone trying them anyway.

        Your pointing out the unlimited resources is the key. Every manufacturer is in it to make a profit, not dump all of their resources into something that may give them a return. We will always be leading the research and the market. When they smell the profit, they follow the trail.

        Some companies are more farsighted and try to lead the market while others never seem to catch on.

  22. GF1,

    Here is the foster valve apart. Housing, the “piston” with O-ring. That is it. No springs or anything. The slotted head on the piston was to the rear (open side of housing) but I fail to see any need for a slotted head,.. as nothing threads. I had to blow the piston out with a air hose. It turned free with screw driver, but would not come out, even with tapping. The piston is flat on the other end with no seal or O-ring to seal. Just metal to metal.

    Really, I am not even sure how it would work. It seems like the piston would be blown out of housing and into the air chamber the second I hook up the high pressure hose. The nipple end has a brass mesh filter in it and can be seen inside the back of the housing.

    Not even sure if this pic will post as I had quite the time doing it and it has been awhile since I have posted one. 🙁

    Chris

    • Chris
      The piston won’t come all the way out of the Foster fitting. Look at the gun where the Foster fitting screws into. That keeps the piston from coming out.

      And I’m not exactly sure what the screwdriver slot is about. And I have had the fittings with no o-ring on the piston and they seal fine. It’s about how the valve seats inside the Foster fitting.

      See the angle inside the Foster fitting. That’s where the o-ring seats and makes the seal. In the picture it looks like your o-ring is flat. I have put regular black o-rings in and have worked fine.

      Oh and about your cell phone. One of these days I bet you will start messing with emails. It really does make it easier than getting on a computer all the time.

      • GF1,

        The O-rings sits inside the smaller bore, (for sure) and does not fit/rest on the taper. I do see what you saying about the female side keeping the piston in. I looked at it after I posted and was DUHHHHHH! 🙁 LOL!

        There is a bit of dirt in there and where the flat end of the piston would be. Since the O-ring fits in the bore,.. I believe a good clean of all parts and some silicone grease will do the trick. I do not have a supply of O-rings just sitting around so I am a bit reluctant to go ripping it off now.

        Thanks,… Chris

        • Chris
          Look closer at the o-ring. It is flat on the side. But also it has a small taper wore on the front that matches the angle inside the Foster fitting. The o-ring does seat on that angle as well as on the side.

              • GF1,

                The taper you see on the seal (might) be from it seating back into the female side. (( The slot would also allow air to enter the air tube/chamber with less restriction. ))

                I did a depth check and that O-ring is (for sure) in the inner small bore when the high pressure is holding it to the front. Before blowing out the piston, that O-ring was nowhere to be seen.

                Chris

                  • GF1,

                    To be clear,… the slot is not in the fitting. It is at the back and together like it came apart. It looks as if it will work either way,… so that does lend some solid credence to Shootski’s theory (OF) once the O-ring fails,… the slot would allow air to escape into the fill nipple,.. thus indicating an issue.

                    As for my previous theory of the seal (taper) being caused by seating on the female side,….. maybe not. If it was sealing (the O-ring) on the female side,… no air would get into the tube.

                    On the other hand,… if the piston comes metal to metal on the female side,.. the air would have difficulty passing. With the slot, it can still be metal to metal,… and STILL pass air.

                    It does work just fine now,… but if I had to guess,.. that slot is meant to be to the front?,… or maybe the rear? Maybe a slot on each end would be good? Maybe?

                    LOL!,…….. Chris 🙂

                    Anyone else out there that has one out and ready to have a “peek see” at?

                    Chris

                    • Chris
                      I think I got one downstairs that is still assembled in a extra tube I have.

                      I’ll see if I can take it out and look at it. I think it’s a Marauder tube. But that shouldn’t matter.

                      And no I’m not taking a working gun apart. That’s one thing I can’t stand is a leaky pcp. And my luck I put it back together and it won’t work. Why just because it always seems to work that way.

      • GF1,

        All fixed and back up and running. I guess some bitty bit of dirt made it somewhere where it was not supposed to be? Nothing is getting past the brass, mesh filter on the inlet,… so go figure.

        It is kind of funny in retrospect that I have torn into many things air gun and yet had no experience with the guts of a simple male Foster valve.

        Thanks for the assistance. (posted a pic of my range at the bottom,.. earlier) Barely!

        Chris

        • Chris
          Read my reply above this. I do believe the o-ring contacts the angle in the Foster fitting. They do on the ones I have took apart that have o-rings.

          But yes dirt particles is what I’m thinking caused your leak down problem.

        • Half,

          I do not know. It is odd. The O-ring (for sure) seals inside the smaller bore, not the taper. Not so sure the flat face of the piston, and it’s seat, is good enough for a seal. It is all fixed and holding 2800 like a champ though,.. so all is good in my small little world! 😉

          RW and M-rod actually shot/cycled. Shoebox got the same, as well as the LP compressor to feed it. Maximus back up and holding air again. I am a happy (enough) camper at this time. 🙂

          Chris

          • Chris,

            In high pressure hydraulics in the industrial world there are many types of valves that seal positively with the sharp cornered edge of the cylindrical moving member contacting the center of the 45 degree tapered face of the non-moving member as well as vice versa.

            Here are cutaways of 2 types of cartridge valves.

            • Half
              That’s what I have seen with hydraulic valves we use at work to. Along with air valves even. As well as airguns I have messed with.

              Oh and as far as the slot goes I believe it pinpoints a area for the valve to open quicker when filling the gun.

        • Half and others reading this section on Foster leaks,

          The slot in the piston is often because the manufacturers take/order a properly sized screw/bolt blank (not threaded) to use as a piston. It also has the effect of letting you know that your O-Ring(s) IS bad much quicker by venting air out of the Foster’s tip; if it was a disk surface it might not leak at high tube/cylinder pressures and only start leaking at lower internal pressures. I have no dea if the manufacturers did that on purpose or it just was a lucky coincidence. Regardless, a BUMMER to have that leak happen on your walk through the Squirrel woods after taking the first half of the day’s limit.

          One other safety feature for HPA everyone should know about is the partial (say half of the threads have a single V cut into them so that you are protected from a BLOWOUT if you failed to depressurize before unscrewing) pressure relief cuts some use on the threads of fittings that keep HPA contained.

          shootski

            • Gunfun1,

              Yup! A SIMPLE fitting…Lol!
              Does a few things though.
              Can ruin your whole day real quick too!
              Especially if it is a few cent O-Ring and you don’t have a few of the right size/type on hand. I usually replace them anytime I open one up.
              The debate on Guns and Viton as well as what Durometer will go on past all our lifetimes!

              shootski

          • Shootski,

            Yes, I have seen the V cut in the past. On the head slot, it was facing to the butt of the gun. From what you said, if it was at the front end (and if) the O-ring were bad,… then air would enter the slot and go out the fill port. As installed, I can see no purpose of the slot (other) than what you mentioned about the manufacturer using a non threaded screw as a blank.

            Perhaps it is installed backwards from the factory? The way it is made, it looks as if either way of installation would work. Your comment does make sense.

            Chris

            • Chris USA,

              That was PURE speculation on my part Chris! I thought I had made that clear…oh well, my body language would have let the reader know. I have seen various QD (Quick Disconnect) pneumatics fittings with all manner of internal configurations…not just the FOSTER™ kind.

              shootski

    • Chris,
      I downloaded this picture and blew it up larger to see more detail. I can see some small particles of debris in the bore, maybe just a very small metal chip from manufacturing? This appears to me as just a poppet valve design. The reservoir pressure forces the piston and flat o-ring into the bore. When the pressure from the compressor is more than the internal reservoir pressure, the poppet would move towards the reservoir and allow air to enter. I do believe the purpose of the machined slot is to allow a larger volume of air to enter. Otherwise, the volume of air would be just the amount that could escape around the periphery of the piston. I think chamfer is just a lead-in for the seal. The reservoir pressure (3000 psi) would definitely force the seal into the bore though. The seal looks similar to the seal on my multi-pump’s exhaust valve assembly which has a flat seal instead of an o-ring. The brass piece had a flat seal and all of the other seals were o-rings.
      Glad you were able to fix the leak by just cleaning and lubing.

  23. Here is the 100 range,. The woods start at 32 yards with about a 5-6′ rise out to the 100 yard. 0-32 flat. The target on elec. fence pole is at 50 yard. Some markers are knocked over by deer. The tree in the center with the dark spot at the bottom is about 110 yards.

    • Chris USA,

      Looks great in the Winter! All you need now are a few of those LED projector bulbs to light it up for night shooting! Is there a understory overgrowth problem in the growing season? Or does the leaf cover keep that down?

      shootski

      • Shootski,

        The under growth stays pretty well down all year. The “may apple” ? plants can get 12-18″ tall and cover the floor (thick in areas) in the spring. They are usually only an issue if target is placed low. I often place fluorescent painted cans low. I prop them up on fiberglass driveway markers/poles as well. The occasional tree will fall across the lane. The multiflora rose bush at yard’s edge (right) does require an occasional trim back throughout the Summer. That needs to go someday.

        Overall, it works nice and I consider myself very lucky to have 100 yards available anytime I want to shoot. It can be improved, better markers (which I did improve), wind flags (which I do have, thanks to Hank’s superb design) and lights????….. I will have to work on the lights. 😉

        I can say for sure,…. the tree canopy will definitely make the woods dark in the Summer. That will test a scope. If I am fighting poor light (like just after daybreak), I have some orange fluorescent stickers that I got at work. 3″ x 5″. They work super nice.

        Thanks for the tips on valves.

        Chris

      • GF1,

        Nice pic? Still working on that. I had a pop up from the blog that anything above 2MB would not get posted. Then,… I tried (poorly I think) to resize, but not sure I did anything. Wherever I looked, I could not seem to find the MB size. Like I said,… still new to all this “smart phone” stuff. But HEY!,… I did get me a couple of ’em up on the blog!

        Chris

Leave a Comment

Buy With Confidence

  • Free Shipping

    Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

    Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

    View Shipping Info

  • Shipping Time Frame

    We work hard to get all orders placed by 12 pm EST out the door within 24 hours on weekdays because we know how excited you are to receive your order. Weekends and holiday shipping times will vary.

    During busy holidays, we step our efforts to ship all orders as fast as possible, but you may experience an additional 1-2 day delay before your order ships. This may also happen if you change your order during processing.

    View Shipping Times

  • Shipping Restrictions

    It's important to know that due to state and local laws, there are certain restrictions for various products. It's up to you to research and comply with the laws in your state, county, and city. If you live in a state or city where air guns are treated as firearms you may be able to take advantage of our FFL special program.

    U.S. federal law requires that all airsoft guns are sold with a 1/4-inch blaze orange muzzle or an orange flash hider to avoid the guns being mistaken for firearms.

    View Shipping Restrictions

  • Expert Service and Repair

    Get the most out of your equipment when you work with the expert technicians at Pyramyd AIR. With over 25 years of combined experience, we offer a range of comprehensive in-house services tailored to kickstart your next adventure.

    If you're picking up a new air gun, our team can test and tune the equipment before it leaves the warehouse. We can even set up an optic or other equipment so you can get out shooting without the hassle. For bowhunters, our certified master bow technicians provide services such as assembly, optics zeroing, and full equipment setup, which can maximize the potential of your purchase.

    By leveraging our expertise and precision, we ensure that your equipment is finely tuned to meet your specific needs and get you ready for your outdoor pursuits. So look out for our services when shopping for something new, and let our experts help you get the most from your outdoor adventures.

    View Service Info

  • Warranty Info

    Shop and purchase with confidence knowing that all of our air guns (except airsoft) are protected by a minimum 1-year manufacturer's warranty from the date of purchase unless otherwise noted on the product page.

    A warranty is provided by each manufacturer to ensure that your product is free of defect in both materials and workmanship.

    View Warranty Details

  • Exchanges / Refunds

    Didn't get what you wanted or have a problem? We understand that sometimes things aren't right and our team is serious about resolving these issues quickly. We can often help you fix small to medium issues over the phone or email.

    If you need to return an item please read our return policy.

    Learn About Returns

Get FREE shipping on qualifying orders! Any order $150+ with a shipping address in the contiguous US will receive the option for free ground shipping on items sold & shipped by Pyramyd AIR during checkout. Certain restrictions apply.

Free shipping may not be combined with a coupon unless stated otherwise.

View Shipping Info

Text JOIN to 91256 and get $10 OFF Your Next $50+ Order!

* By providing your number above, you agree to receive recurring autodialed marketing text msgs (e.g. cart reminders) to the mobile number used at opt-in from Pyramyd AIR on 91256. Reply with birthday MM/DD/YYYY to verify legal age of 18+ in order to receive texts. Consent is not a condition of purchase. Msg frequency may vary. Msg & data rates may apply. Reply HELP for help and STOP to cancel. See Terms and Conditions & Privacy Policy.

Customer Support

Shopping Services

GET TO KNOW US

PyramydAir.com uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. By continuing to browse the site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. You can find out more about how we use them in the privacy policy. All other designated trademarks, copyrights, and brands are the property of their respective owners.

Copyright © 1999-2024 Pyramyd AIR. All Rights Reserved.

Customer Support

Shopping Services

GET TO KNOW US

|
|

credit cards

secure checkout

Copyright © 1999-2024 Pyramyd AIR. All Rights Reserved.