Dragonfly Mark 2.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12
Part 13
This report covers:
- The test
- 4 pumps
- 5 pumps
- 6 pumps
- 7 pumps
- 8 pumps
- 9 pumps
- What have we learned?
- Summary
Today we advance the 25-yard accuracy test of the Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 multi-pump rifle. We are testing which number of pump strokes is the best. I will explain the details as we go.
We started this test in Part 13, when we discovered a good pellet. That was the Air Arms 16-grain dome that gave us 5 shots in 0.331-inches at 25 yards on 8 pump strokes. Now we use that pellet alone, and test it by shooting groups with differing numbers of pump strokes from 4 through 15.
The test
My plan is to pump the rifle 4 to 15 times per shot to shoot groups with this pellet. Today I will pump 4 through 9 times per group, which gives us 6 groups. The next time I will complete the test by pumping 10 through 15 times per group, giving us another 6 groups.
That is a lot of pumping, but in the end there will be just one group per set of pumps, so the data isn’t conclusive. I’m hoping we see a relationship that suggests what the best number of pumps is — something like 7 to 9 pumps seems best — FOR THIS PELLET AT 25 YARDS.
Guys, if you think about what you just read you’ll soon realize that this could be a lifetime of testing and still never cover all the bases. I’m doing this because we all want to know, but I’m not going to make this my life’s work!
I’m shooting off a sandbag rest at 25 yards indoors. The Dragonfly is rested directly on the bag. The rifle is scoped with a UTG Bug Buster 3-12X32 scope that was zeroed in Part 13. I have purposely not centered the shots inside the bullseye to preserve the aim point. Let’s begin.
4 pumps
With 4 pumps the rifle put five shots into a group measuring 0.483-inches between centers. I was surprised that it hit the bullseye and of course it took out the aim point, but that wasn’t as big a problem as I thought. This is the second-largest group of today’s test and this number of pumps is definitely not recommended for accuracy. However, compared to many air rifles this is an okay 25-yard group.
On 4 pumps the Dragonfly put five 16-grain Air Arms domes into 0.483-inches at 25 yards.
5 pumps
Surprisingly 5 pumps gave the best group of today’s test. I blew away the aim point with the second shot, yet I still managed to put five into 0.196-inches between centers. That’s good for the silver trime. And it proves I don’t need the aim point to shoot well.
With 5 pumps the rifle homed in on the target, making the smallest group of the test, at just 0.196-inches between centers. Not bad for 25 yards!
6 pumps
On 6 pumps the rifle put five into 0.492-inches — the largest group of the test. Notice, too, that the group dropped lower. I am amazed that there are such dramatic differences with just a single pump — open with 4 and 6 pumps and tight with 5. This suggests an additional test after testing with all the numbered pump strokes is completed.
On 6 pumps the group opened to 0.492-inches at 25 yards. And the point of impact dropped.
7 pumps
On 7 pumps the point of impact dropped even lower and also went to the left. But the pellets stayed together in a group that measures 0.382-inches between centers. So the group movement was real. That is a fact we have learned. The number of pumps affects where the pellet goes. They are all hitting inside the black at 25 yards, but it’s still something to keep in mind.
On 7 pumps the Dragonfly put five pellets into 0.382-inches at 25 yards.
8 pumps
On 8 pumps the point of impact remained to the left of center but climbed just a bit. It’s lower than the group shot with the same pellet on 8 pumps in Part 13, but it’s close to the same area. In Part 13 five pellets are in 0.331-inches and in this test with the same number of pump strokes 5 are in 0.293-inches. That is the only confirmation group (more than one group with the same number of pumps) that we have and look how close it is. That is impressive!
Eight pumps put 5 pellets into 0.293-inches at 25 yards. It’s the second smallest of this test.
9 pumps
This is the final group for today’s test. On 9 pumps five pellets went into 0.357-inches between centers in a nice round group.
On 9 pumps the Dragonfly put 5 into 0.357-inches.
What have we learned?
For starters we learned that groups are very affected by just one pump stroke. Now remember what I said at the start — this test isn’t conclusive. However, it does point out what other tests might be done WITH THIS PELLET AT 25 YARDS. Like I said — this could become a lifelong exercise!
We have also seen how the point of impact moves dramatically with just one pump stroke. And, in case you didn’t notice, it moved around in a clockwise circle as the pump strokes increased. That is the same direction as the twist of the rifling.
I will tell you right now that there were no called pulls in today’s test. All shots went where I aimed them. Given the sandbag rest and the Dragonfly’s light trigger it’s hard to make a mistake.
Summary
This test could only be done with the Dragonfly Mark 2. Any other multi-pump would flat wear me out. I pumped the rifle 195 times for this test. And on the next test where I pump 10 to 15 times per shot the count will be 375. I must really love you guys to go through this!
B.B.,
I know it’s a ton of work for you, but I, for one (and I’m sure I won’t be the only one), really appreciate these data points Hence, even before you do your next 375-pump report, I’d like to thank you ahead of time for that one as well as for this one!
Blessings to you,
dave
P.S. The difference that one pump made was quite surprising; with my 1322 carbine, pumps just seem to affect the drop; I use 3 pumps [indoors] on the 5-meter range; 4 pumps puts me on target at 15 yards; and the 5th pump allows me to hit cans end-on at 25 yards. Of course, that’s just plinking offhand, and not any kind of detailed analysis like you are doing here.
I think this multi pump air rifle warrants this much more involved eding, as you have shown that this is not just another pumper. It’s pulled quite a bit above the average air gun of this type. I’m a fan of this group of air guns. When comparing to the Crosman 362 and considering the price of that gun with a steel breech to mount a scope, then the price of a 362 set up that way, is much closer to the price of this rifle. The pump linkage looks a bit spindly on the Dragonfly, but you haven’t had an issue with that.
birdmove,
I like my Mark 2, but I also like my Crosman 362. After I got my Sheridan, I also bought a Crosman 1322 (the old model with the sliding breech), and then a Crosman 1377 with the pull-back hammer (this was a 1981 model).
So, I guess you could say I’m a fan of pumpers…they’re what I grew up on! 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
“I must really love you guys to go through this!”
We all love you too, B.B.! I remember a while back we were discussing getting more exercise to improve shooting performance, well, here you go!
Seriously, though, I share Dave’s sentiments. Thanks for this information, and thank you in advance for the next installment.
I performed much the same test with my Crosman 362 with several pellets. Lucky for me, the max number of pumps is 8.
“I performed much the same test with my Crosman 362 with several pellets. Lucky for me, the max number of pumps is 8.” LOL! Good one, man! 😉
Thanks, Dave.
But it’s true. You can check out my results (and anybody can post their results) here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1A7DbYotHteZNxjIdSZfcG00edrjkUYcus0OD43qLPPM/htmlview
Roamin Greco, that’s some great data; thank you! 🙂
Great cardio….
-Y
BB,
Thank you for the effort you put yourself through for us the readers! I sure hope somebody will step up to the plate and do the same experiment with a different (lighter) weight pellet.
Siraniko
BB: While we all admire your strength and dedication to duty, don’t you get at least an iota of pleasure in shooting this beautiful and accurate pumper? Certainly you might derive some joy from having led so many of your flock of readers to wait in line for our pre-ordered Dragonfly MK2 rifles to arrive at Pyramyd. AND YOU WERE RIGHT! Speaking for myself, I love my Dragonfly. . . so far, it’s all that has been promised. Here I am approaching my 75th birthday with biceps bulging and a smile on my face . . . all because of you! Take joy o master. . . you’ve called this one right. Although this has been written with tongue in cheek, My Dragonfly MK2 is right up there among my favorite new toys. Orv.
Orv,
I get several iotas of pleasure doing this sort of thing. Here I am, shooting a multi-pump with a scope. Even old BB (just turned 75) has fun with this one! 😉
What is the plural of iota? A gathering?
BB
B.B., iota is a Greek letter. In that sense, the plural is iotas. But in the sense that means “a very small amount,” I don’t think you would use the plural; I think you would either say, “more than an iota” or just use another word.
I really need to find my round tuit and get that 101 up and running. At the moment I am working on my Junior though. Perhaps the 101 will be next on the list.
Hey BeserkleyMike, you should record B.B.’s results in your spreadsheet. What was that link again?
B.B., I predict that you will get at least one more tight group as the # of pumps increases. My sense is that these things have a cycle to them. I think it is fascinating how the pellets seem to be spiraling as the number of pumps is increased. That makes the variable power feature a bit less useful unless one finds a predictable pattern…and then can remember it.
B.B.
400 pumps in order to share some more knowledge with us. We are all grateful for your efforts. I suppose your zodiac sign (Virgo) has something to do with it.
Don’t ask how I know; born on 08/31…
Bill,
I just saw this comment. I suppose you mean that Virgos are supposed to be perfectionists?
BB
B.B.
Exactly, virgos are supposed to be the perfectionist workers of the universe. And with a very critical attitude that makes them usually not quite adorable…My comments here show this often. Ah well, happy birthday to us all.
BB
The spiral pattern correlation to barrel bore twist is eye opening. This should also apply to all multipumpers unless it doesn’t.
Accuracy is impressive. That trigger must be better than I imagined for the number of shots with no called fliers. Here is one more observation: The pumping mechanism is holding up for hundreds of cycles. I hope you weren’t given a special prototype rifle to test.
Deck
Deck,
A “special prototype”? I don’t think so but how would I know?
BB
BB
You wouldn’t or at least I wouldn’t know if it was hand picked and pretested.. Again I’m hoping you got a random shipment.
On another note I have to log in my password each time I respond to a comment.
Deck
BB-
I think you are committed to using the same format for part two of this test. To prove the apparent observation of spiraling about the aim point due to changes of pressure and velocity, might I suggest the following. Instead of shot groups, use one shot per bull for the chosen group quantity (5 or 10) and introduce a distance variable. To make it manageable, how about 5 bulls and 5 shots per at 5, 8, 11 and 14 pumps and use 22, 25 and 28 yards. That would be 190 pumps per distance and 3 yards variation between each 20 bull target sheet should get some meaningful data.
For you this is a labor of love, B.B.; that’s why you love doing it and we love you for it. Though lukewarm about multi-pumpers, if FM spots one of these at the Hickory airgun show, may have to test shoot it if possible, then try and resist temptation…or not.
Remember, age is just mind over matter – don’t mind, it won’t matter. The young man 😉 who’s rejuvenating FM’s Kübelwagen is a mere 81. Granted, his son is also involved in the business, but like the Energizer Bunny, the dad is still going and going. Keep moving, pumping and shooting. You’ll keep on truckin’ for a long time.
B.B.,
“And, in case you didn’t notice, it moved around in a clockwise circle as the pump strokes increased. That is the same direction as the twist of the rifling.” I’m going to play Devils Advocate and say, Not so fast B.B.! I don’t think you have a big enough data population to call that more than a casual observation that needs more study. So the armchair readers who just need to know IF there is something to your observation should send funds to support the additional testing and related expenses.
On a IT related issue i have needed to enter my password at least twice to actually be able to create a REPLY/POST for the past few days.
shootski
Good timing on this blog entry for me anyway. I received my Dragonfly 2 this morning from PA. Everything looked good out of the box. As reported the manual has very minimal amount of info…Just the facts, Ma’am. I will clean it well tonight when I get home from work but had to try a test shot, just for functionality as I forgot to order the 10 shots test.
Mine needs umm, let’s be nice and say tweaking or fine tuning. At first I thought it was defective as it would not build air pressure. I fiddled with the forearm screws to make sure all was tight and tried a few more times. Finally got a little frustrated and really torqued the forearm back as I had noticed it did look like it extends as far on mine as it does in Tyler’s video. It broke loose and I was able to pump it up and fire it.
It is VERY stiff to fully retract in the last 3 inches, then super easy back to the reset. I am going to have to do some research on that. Also seems the interior cutout on the wood forearm is a touch off center and causing the scissor mechanism to scrape in the inside of it when opening it from a fully closed position. Shouldn’t be hard to correct but worth mentioning. I thought the trigger felt fine though, which is nice.
HBUCS:
Mine was also stiff for the last three inches of extension when I received it, but it’s starting to smooth out. Didn’t have the pump arms scraping the wood issue, tho.
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
I hope that is all it needs is to be cleaned and broken in but it really feels like it not only stiff but feels like the linkage binding badly.
And…..she’s dead. PA said to try to oil it and try to work through the stickiness in the stroke and I did try and it did get a little bit better but quit firing after about a dozen shots. Luck of the draw, happens to the best of them and I know PA will take care of me on it.
HoBob’sUSCASA,
Bummer that she died so soon! Hope your next one doesn’t suffer Infant Mortality!
I hope she lives a long and fun filled life with you.
shootski
10-Q Shootski. I don’t want to be misunderstood here. I am not disparaging the gun. I can see the potential, The fit and finish seems excellent on this one. MOST people seem very happy with their Dragonfly 2’s and most is about you all you can ask for. Nobody is perfect.
The ONLY complaint I think I would have if mine had worked correctly is how CLACKY sounding the linkage is. Kind of defeats the purpose of the cool feature of not having to clack and close on every pump as it is still just about as noisy. Bolt could be a touch longer as well but has good positive engagement. A lot more positives than negatives for sure.
HoBob’sUSCASA,
Aye, Aye! Mate!
I got that you like the airgun enough to let PA fix it or send you another. You are a lucky man that that option exists! I have an airgun SIG ASP20 .177 that is turning out to be a real shooter but no more of them will ever be built…!
Drives me crazy that it is now shooting MOA with the 10.03 grain JSB KNOCKOUTs at 25 and at 50 yards. I will need to keep shooting it with regular Diabolos but being an ornery cuss i just needed to prove that it could go MOA with bullets (SLUGS) just because!
But they aren’t building any more….
shootski
Oh man, You are the Lucky One! I missed the boat on the ASP20. It’s on my short list of must haves if I can ever find one. Although I prefer .22, you can bet I will snarf up a ,177 if I ever find either one. WIlling to take the chance on trying to find parts to have one of those, I kick myself repeatedly for choosing something else when they were available.
Shootski
Stupid me tried shooting JSB 25.38 grain KnockOuts in his big box store .22 caliber break barrel. The rifle has good handling features, a smooth shooting cycle, but can’t shoot sub 1” at 25 yards. It still can’t but it likes the slugs better than pellets.
Glad the ASP20’s are getting a good home. Mine now has a Whiskey 3 scope on it.
Thanks.
Deck
Tom:
As someone who has an engineering background, I’m fascinated with the database that you’re building. The more so because I’m one of those that pre-ordered (and subsequently received) my Dragonfly Mk II last spring. Great fun! Thanks for all your work! May the cardio workout extend your mortal sojourn!
Motorman
St. Louis. MO
BB,
In the next report, could you ask for a front cap piece with black blade front sight as a part for this one? It can easily be replaced. They can make extra $$ for that part.
Fish,
Draw it. “They” are watching.
BB
BB,
I’ll draw a mental pic.
The Dragonfly’s front sight is part of the muzzle cap that also includes the barrel support. I would like to see a replacement muzzle cap with a SQUARED BLACK BLADE front sight, instead of the fibreoptic one that comes on the gun. Such a replacement part will sell a lot, and ‘they’ may even overcharge a bit; we will buy.
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