My new/old Webley Senior slant grip pellet pistol.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
This report covers:
- The test
- Note
- H&N Baracuda 15
- H&N Baracuda 18
- H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme
- Note to self
- JTS Dead Center
- H&N Slug HP 0.218
- However
- Summary
When I wrote the report titled Testing new pellets recently I mentioned that I might do a similar test with the Webley Senior pistol. Several readers responded favorably and even added the Crosman Mark II and S&W 78G pistols to the list — because they are also .22-caliber air pistols.
Initially I wanted to test all three pistols in one report but when I thought about it I realized that this would be a sloppy way to test important new pellets. I get tired when shooting and pistols tire me fastest of all. So I decided to test just the Webley Senior today, and I added a slug to the test at the request of one reader.
The test
I shot from a sandbag rest at 10 meters. The pistol was held in two hands but did not touch the bag. My hold will become important as I present the results.
I shot 5-shot groups with all pellets because the Senior pistol has a heavy trigger and is difficult to cock. I did not want to wear myself out by the end of the test, so the results would be suspect.
I wore reading glasses with a +1.25 diopter correction. They help me see the front sight sharp and crisp, which is the secret to accuracy with an air pistol.
Note
When I tested these new pellets in the two rifles it was the first time I had ever shot any of them in either rifle. But I have already shot the first two pellets in the Webley Senior. I’ll mention how they did then and we can compare that to how they did today.
H&N Baracuda 15
The H&N Baracuda 15 proved to be the most accurate pellet in the Senior in the Part 6 test. Five pellets went into 1.427-inches at 10 meters. Today they did both far better and a little worse Five pellets are in 1.716-inches at 10 meters with four of them in 0.359-inches at 10 meters. That’s right — 0.359-inches! And the one pellet that went wide of the group was not the first shot because I looked at the target after that first one and saw the pellet hole in the bottom of the bull.
Yeah — I couldn’t believe it, either. Five H&N Baracuda 15s are in 1.716-inches with four in 0.359-inches.
Do I know why that one pellet is low and right? Not for sure, but I do have a theory that I will explain a bit later in this report.
I will say that I was taking great care to carefully squeeze the trigger and hold the sight picture for each shot. So, given the tight group of four, that one lone pellet does surprise me. We will come back to this group but for now let’s move on to the next pellet, which was also shot in the Senior previously.
H&N Baracuda 18
Next up were five H&N Baracuda 18s. In Part 6 they didn’t do very well, with five going into 2.962-inches at 10 meters. Today the Senior put five into 2.419-inches. It is a vertical group where last time it was horizontal, but both times it proved to not be the pellet for the Webley Senior.
Once again the Webley Senior proved its disdain for the H&N Baracuda 18. Five pellets are in a vertical 2.419 inches at 10 meters.
H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme
The H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme isn’t brand new but it is a pellet I have not tested a lot, and the results I have seen indicate that it warrants more exposure. In the Webley Senior five of them went into 1.389-inches which was the smallest 5-shot group of today’s test.
The H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme pellet was the most accurate pellet in today’s test. Five went into 1.389 inches at 10 meters.
Note to self
This was also the point at which I realized what might have thrown that shot wide on the first group. One of these shots caused the Webley to twist wide to the right in my hands and I saw that it was caused by how I was holding the grip. I adjusted my left hand ever-so-slightly away from the bottom of the grip and the pistol seemed to settle down. That’s a note to myself for the future. So — why didn’t I shoot a second group of Baracuda 15s to check it out?
Why no more Baracuda 15s
I thought about shooting a second group of Baracuda 15s, but there were two more pellets to test and I suspected I wouldn’t be fresh after that. That wouldn’t be a fair test, because I was really concentrating on the sight picture and trigger pull throughout this test, and it was very taxing.
JTS Dead Center
The next pellet I tested was the new JTS Dead Center dome. Five went into 1.636-inches at 10 meters. It’s almost as small as the Baracuda Hunter Extreme pellet group, so I think these two pellets are about equal in accuracy. I say that because the first group of Baracuda 15s is so much better that it’s difficult to discount.
Five JTS Dead Center pellets made a 1.636-inch group at 10 meters.
H&N Slug HP 0.218
The final pellet I tested was the H&N Slug HP with a 0.218-inch diameter. I think this is the largest diameter slug in my inventory. I tested this one reluctantly because I didn’t know if it would even work and I must comment that its velocity was about half that of the other pellets. The first one was scary because I didn’t know where it might go, but it landed just below the bullseye and I figured I was good to go for the other four. To my great surprise five Slugs made a 1.644-inch group at 10 meters. That’s very close to the performance of the JTS!
The Webley Senior put 5 H&N Slug HPs with a 0.218-inch diameter into 1.644-inches at 10 meters.
However
There is a “however’ with the slugs though. The third one I loaded fell through the barrel and landed on the carpet. They are very close to the size between the lands. Remember — vintage .22-caliber British-made Webleys have bores that are on the large side.
This slug is so close to bore size that it fell through the barrel and hit the carpet.
Summary
I think this was a good test to run and I was surprised by the accuracy of the Webley Senior. I look forward to testing these pellets in the other two pistols and now I’m thinking I might need to drag out the ASP20 rifle for a test, as well.
“Five H&N Baracuda 15s are in 1.716-inches with four in 0.359-inches.”
B.B,.
The four in 0.359-inches is awesome; this ol’ gal is cookin’…pretty sweet!
Thank you for including her in the test. 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
I was blown away by that group. I was afraid to shoot a second one for fear I couldn’t come close! 😉
BB
Tom
Please excuse my comment for it’s not meant to be insulting but you SHOULD shoot another group, exactly to prove if your fear is true.
After all sometimes luck helps even the best shooters…
Bill,
Just for you. Bill. Because I love you! 🙂
BB
Speechless
Here’s prayin’ she does as well the second time around!
This ol’ gal’s a sweetie! 😉
Tom,
I’m amazed that the slugs showed some accuracy despite not being able to fully engaged to the rifling.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Me, too!
BB
BB
Seems slugs like the blowgun mode. Thanks for trying them. I’ve been shooting them with varying accuracy results, not too good and not too bad. Hunters should be trying them in airguns they already own.
Deck
BB,
I also was amazed by how well the Baracuda 15s did. I guess I am going to have to see how they do in that Senior that is visiting at RRHFWA.
Have you tried the H&N Field Target Trophy in 5.55 mm in this old gal yet? The Hunter Extreme was a nicely shaped group. These Webleys seem to like the H&N brand.
I wonder what the Webley Senior’s barrel twist rate is?
I wonder also, what barrel twist rate measurers there are?
I imagine one of those freely rotating cleaning rods with the appropriately sized brass brush for the calibre of gun to be measured. It has distance markings along it’s length. Also, there is a disk fixed at it’s upper end that rotates with the rod.
Just above this disk, at the bottom of the handle, is a pin that protrudes and acts as a pointer over the disk, that has been graded around it’s edge.
So, one would push the brush into the barrel until 0″ is level with the muzzle, rotate the handle until the pointer lines up with the 0° marker on the disk and then, without any handle rotation, push the brush all the way down inside the barrel.
The barrel twist rate could then be simply read off of the disk and rod. For example, if the pin points to 180° on the disk and the rod says 8″, then it’s 1:16. 🙂
Surely something like that must exist somewhere? 🙂
hi3,
No, something like that does not exist and yes, that is how twist rates are measured in the field.
BB
Hi3-
I use a rod like you suggest- usually with a tight fitting jag and patch. Insert fully into barrel and place a masking tape ‘flag’ on the rod flush with the muzzle and with the ‘flag’ upright at TDC. Withdraw the rod until the ‘flag’ rotates to TDC again and measure the distance from muzzle to ‘flag’. Easy, peasy.
pacoinohio, I like your version due to it’s simplicity! 🙂
While looking through the list of 107 possible meanings for “TDC” (https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TDC), it suddenly occurred to me that it doesn’t matter!
As long as the eg Tabata Dental Clinic in Japan doesn’t move. 🙂
Hi3-
Sorry, TDC=Top Dead Center.
hihihi,
I’m surprised!
I would have thought you of all people would EXPECT that the maker of the barrel would have marked the barrel with the twist rate. My DAQ Outlaw .308LA has .308 1:10 hand stamped on it with a cold steel punch; you would think a high volume manufacturer would have a LASER that could do the same but in milliseconds right on the CNC machine!
I have used my Dewey cleaning rods with a cleaning jag and a cloth patch affixed and counting the revolutions of a piece of masking tape, flagged, on the rod. Allows you to clean the new bore and feel the qualities of the barrel bore at the same time.
shootski
Hehe shootski, what a surprising comment. 🙂
For your- and anybody else’s interest, I was looking for a barrel-rifling-twist-rate’ometer, so that I could check which of my airguns would be best suited to shoot non-waisted projectiles, thinking the more spin, the more stable the ‘flying stick’. 🙂
hihihi,
You Sir, would be correct in your surmise!
shootski
hihihi,
I was neglectful with my answer lest a new airgunner/shooter not realize the following fact that effects the rate of spin.
You have been around the B.B. Blog long enough that you know that RPM(S) Revolutions Per Minute (Second) has a VELOCITY VARIABLE. So how fast F/MPS (Feet/Meters Per Second) your flying stick is traveling at the instant it exits the muzzle has a Direct bearing on how fast it is spinning and not just the FIXED value of Bore twist ratio.
shootski
BB-
Errata- Caption for Barracuda 18s-
….Webley Senior proved its distain… Should be ‘disdain’.
‘Distain’ should be used thusly-
Tom had trouble choosing between distain and datstain to refinish the deck.
paco,
Very funny! Criticize me because I can’t spel.
BB
But – can you spelunk? Regardless, also surprised the slugs worked in the Webley; have some .218s from Nielsen, maybe will try them in the HW95 and the Maximus.
B.B.,
Well at least you can chute!
shootski
That’s what his Webley is for, señor shootski – para chute.
B.B.
Yes, drag the SIG out of storage!
I saw this video over the weekend, lots of interesting history. Yes Clarkson is an idiot and I’m sure some of the facts are wrong, but lots of old powder burners shown here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_uMxwUs308
-Yogi
Yogi
Well worth watching. Thanks
Deck
Yogi,
Clarkson makes money with his ID10T approach to it!
He at least knows that the future holds a history of unanticipated outcomes.
I second the motion to bring out the SIG!
I have enjoyed my two in the backyard frequently in recent days. So much so that a new renter (moved in on April Fools Day…) that i hadn’t spoken to called the gendarmerie on me just this morning. I spoke with the responding officer through my gate until he understood i was shooting an airgun and that he in fact had patrolled with my daughter a few weeks earlier. Tensions were immediately forgotten and he shot a few rounds…Lol!
I then got to peak with my new neighbors and explained my range safety measures and showed them my target. The police officer explained they had expectation NO of any action that my shooting range in my backyard was LAWFUL.
They did however, sadly, decline my invitation to come over and shoot.
shootski
Wow shootski, what unpleasant neighbours !
I hope they discover, rather sooner than later, that their illusion of self importance is at best amusing, if not wholly unwelcome. 🙁
My blood’s boiling…
hihihi,
The USA is currently in the grips of a CONCERTED effort by the current Federal administration, the Mass Media, and the Gun Ban groups to exploit any and all misuse of arms of any sort to disarm the countries very MOST Law Abiding Citizens of a fundamental RIGHT.
If you watched any of the video Yogi provided a link to you didn’t once hear that the mosquito kills and disables each year far more humans than Arms of any sort ever have:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/08/05/most-dangerous-animal-world/10090470002/
shootski
Had a neighbor who, despite the fact her husband had been a doctor in the US military and had been around firearms, claimed to hate guns and once threatened to call the law on another neighbor who was stalking an iguana with his air rifle. Sad to say, her lousy attitude caused her to be pretty isolated once hubby passed away. She de-planeted around the time FM started his household pesting and target shooting activities but, had she dropped the same threat on him, woulda told her to go ahead, call, cry wolf, and waste a Palm Beach County sheriff’s deputy’s day.
Maybe us neighborhood airgun airheads shoulda invited her to pop some targets…guess that was not very neighborly of us. Hope she’s practicing archery with the angels.
FawltyManual,
These incidents are an opportunity to educate those who are willing to listen. Almost every neighbor in the past has been much more understanding.
I wish they (April Fools Neighbors) had at least spoken to me but one of the couple seemed to be trembling every time (he) looked at the SIG…smh!
This kind of outcome is suspect since they may try to go the political route which will only make it unpleasant for everyone…other than for their lawyer.
The officer did note once they had gone that he was sorry for the inconvenience and that now he knew why my daughter shot accurately on the range.
shootski
FawltyManuel what a wonderful choice of word, “…de-planeted…”. I can imagine me borrowing that one. 🙂
I suppose, angels’ archery practice includes low targets. 🙂
hihihi,
I hope your blood has stopped boiling! I wore pressure suits above 45,000′ to avoid having mine boil…not a good thing to have happen.
But i did get in more shooting with the .22cal. SIG ASP20 in the afternoon after finishing some more chores. It was WINDY 18mph(37kph) with gusts to 31mph(50 kph) so the best groups i could get at 50yards were just under 2 MOA with .22 Caliber FX Domes Weight: 15.89 gr Head Diameter: .2175 (5.52mm) which fits the bore. I just flush seated them this first time next time i will try variable depths on seating them with my pellet pen.
I’m not certain this pellet is heavy enough for the SIG. They were subsonic but i should give them a chance on a less windy/gusty day from the bench.
I just wanted to see if I would get a reaction from the April Fool Neighbors using a Champion Steel trap. I need to build a rubber mulch trap and not tempt them to file a noise complaint.
Don’t want your blood to boil ;^)
shootski
Do the simplest build of them all. Rubber mulch in a cardboard box. Stick it in front of your steel trap.
You can work on the next iteration while you’re still using this one 🙂
MisterAP,
Yup
KISS for now, Lol!
Have the cardboard box. Need to make a holder/leveling frame out of some bolts and wing nuts a few 1″×1″ to make it a one trip downrange setup. Eventually I want to light it with some bright LEDs for uniform lighting.
But first need to get the rubber mulch.
I have been thinking that eventually I want to build it into a rolling Toter® trashcan with a clamshell lid. That way it can all stay outside year-round.
shootski
Shootski, search the blog for my plastic tote rubber mulch trap. Still going strong.
I am working on a mulch trap cleaner so one can easily reclaim the lead and reuse the mulch.
Does anyone recall the results of pushing a pellet deeper into the barrel when loading it has?
Increased speed or accuracy?
Bob M,
It depends….
I have never seen it work on any of my PCP.
It seems to work, sometimes, on single pump pistols.
I have never done it on a Big Bore and rely on the bolt to position the bullet in the Leade/chamber/bore.
I have been trying it on the Sig ASP20s but results are inconclusive. Heck I’m still trying to find the right pellet and/or bullet (slug) in the .22 caliber.
It might work to engrave on lower powered spring piston airguns.
But i’m no Springer expert so don’t pay much attention to me on them.
shootski
PS: just tried to do a search box check on “pellet seating” and it sends me to the PA Home Page?????
Huh!
PPS: Then i removed the quote marks ” ” and this came up: /blog/2014/05/episode-34-introduction-to-pellet-seating/
Bob M,
Seating the pellet into the rifling can make a big difference on low power pellet guns. High power not so much. On my low pressure pellet gun (100-150 psi) it can make the difference of whether or not the pellet just sits in the lead or comes out the barrel. That is an extreme case.
I have seen a difference in accuracy in low power airguns like CO2 and single stroke pneumatic. The improvement in accuracy seems to come from lowering the extreme spread in velocity. A Beeman P17 is a good example.
Don
If I recall correctly, seating the pellet all the way in was mentioned as important in one of BB’s reports on the Texan.
Edit: This is the Texan one /blog/2020/11/airforce-texan-part-4/
Did a quick search and also found these.
/blog/2020/12/does-seating-pellets-extremely-deep-help/
/blog/2010/02/breech-seating-tests-part-1/
MisterAP
Thank you very much for that info. This blog and its members are amazing. What an education I just received on the subject following those links and all the variables that may be involved with it.
I have missed some blogs or my rememberer is going south.
Looks like it should be something to check on every new airgun you get and every change in pellet used for optimal performance in the direction you wish to go. Speed or accuracy.
At least I have arrived at some general information about deep seating pellets for the various types of airguns , and the best procedure.
You’re welcome, glad it was useful!
Happy shooting!
I watched the video, good info. I was going to reply to Shootski that he was probably redirected to the P/A home page to look into resources, but he obviously figured it out.
I thought it had something to do with giving the air pressure in a springer a clear space to start the air flowing and increase fps but there is more. Surprised to see the pellet damage in the film.
Thanks guys.