by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This FWB 124 Deluxe is not the exact gun I’m writing about, but it is the same model.
This report covers:
- The test
- Cocking is so easy!
- Shot one — Premier lites
- RWS Hobbys
- JSB Exact RS
- Expanded test
- Air Arms Falcon pellets
- RWS Superdomes
- The dime
- Summary
Today I start looking at the accuracy of the FWB 124 I picked up at this year’s Findlay airgun show. I had already shot it on the set of “American Airgunner” several times, but this will be the first formal test where I can actually see how it’s doing.
The test
It’s 10 shots per pellet at 10 meters off a rest. I used the artillery hold because the FWB 124 is the poster-child of spring-piston air rifles that lunge forward when they fire.
For the benefit of our newer readers, the artillery hold is how we hold spring-piston air rifles so they will shoot their nest.
I held the rifle on the flat of my off hand, just in front of the trigger guard. And that hand was resting on a sandbag.
Cocking is so easy!
I had forgotten there was ever a time when we didn’t need to slap the muzzle to break open the barrel of a breakbarrel air rifle, but with the 124 you don’t have to. The ball bearing breech detent holds the barrel shut, yet opens easily. And cocking, which in Part 2 was measured at just 18 pounds of effort, makes this rifle feel like it was made for kids.
The spring-loaded ball bearing holds the breech tight, yet makes it butter-smooth to open.
Shot one — Premier lites
The first shot at the 10-meter air rifle target with Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets struck just beneath the bull. I was using a 6 o’clock hold — aiming at the bull where 6 o’clock would be is the black bull was a clock face. To move the pellet to the center of the bull I slid the rear sight elevator forward about halfway and raised the rear notch. Shot number two landed close to the 10-ring. Sight-in was over.
Now that I knew my pellets were hitting where I wanted I shot 4 more before looking again. These five were tight enough that I finished the group with another five.
At ten meters 10 Ten Crosman Premier lite pellets went into a group that measures 0.447-inches between centers. The shot at the bottom was the first shot before the sights were adjusted.
That was a great beginning! I had forgotten just how nice a 124 can be. This one performs beautifully and has none of the usual 124 spring buzz. And the trigger is very nice, now that I’m shooting for accuracy.
RWS Hobbys
The second pellet I tried was the RWS Hobby wadcutter. Nine of them grouped together but one was a little outside the main group. The overall group measures 0.609-inches between centers. Nine are in 0.492-inches
Ten RWS Hobbys went into 0.609-inches at 10 meters.
JSB Exact RS
Next up were JSB Exact RS pellets. Ten went into 0.483-inches at 10 meters. This pellet cracked with each shot. I don’t know what it was because they were certainly traveling nowhere near the sound barrier. Maybe it just got to the target quicker and that was what I heard.
Ten JSB Exact RS pellets went into 0.483-inches at 10 meters.
Expanded test
I normally test accuracy with three different pellets. Since I shoot 10-shot groups, this gives me a pretty god idea of whether the rifle/pistol is accurate or not. It doesn’t tell the absolute limit of accuracy unless one of the pellets happens to be the best in that airgun — it just gives a general idea of how accurate it might be.
Well, this 124 is a special rifle. It’s special because it’s a 124 and also because I plan to keep this one. Of all of the 124s I’ve ever owned, this is the one that will be for sale at my estate sale. I just don’t want to be without a 124 ever again, and this one has the best tune of any I’ve tested. So, I decided to shoot it a little more.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
This domed lightweight is a pellet that often proves the best — especially if the rifle/pistol is an accurate one. And from what we have seen already, this one is.
Ten Falcon pellets went into 0.474-inches at 10 meters. That’s the second-smallest group of the test, and very close to the best one!
Ten Air Arms Falcon pellets went into 0.474-inches at 10 meters. It’s the second-smallest group of the test.
RWS Superdomes
The last pellets I tested were RWS Superdomes. They did not do as well as the other four. Ten of them went into a vertical group that measures 0.727-inches between centers. If you look carefully you’ll see there are two distinct groups. It appears like 6 pellets went into the larger group below and the other 4 went high. I don’t know what to make of that, other than Superdomes may not be the best for this rifle.
Ten RWS Superdome pellets made this vertical group at 10 meters. It measures 0.727-inches between centers
The dime
I know someone is going to notice that the dime I used for size comparison in the photos isn’t my usual one. What’s the deal? Well, I recently had the cataracts removed from both eyes and my near vision isn’t what it used to be. I could see that this was a dime when I picked it up from my desk drawer, but I couldn’t see that it wasn’t the right one — the one I wrote about several years ago. I still have the other dime and will use it in the future.
Summary
There you have it. I suspected this 124 was a shooter and I think this first test proves it. I plan to back up to 25 yards next and shoot with open sights again. Then I’ll scope the rifle and shoot a final test at 25 yards. Those two reports might take a while to happen because I have a lot more old airguns to show you.
The Feinwerkbau 124 is an all-time classic air rifle. Even today it holds its own with the best of them. It’s the sort of airgun that made this sport what it is!
BB
Went back and read the dime story. Morgan Freeman, playing a western writer in the movie The Magic of Belle Isle, said something about imagination to the young girl he was teaching to write. I believe it was, “You have to see things that aren’t there to be a good writer” Well BB you are unquestionably qualified. I too had to check the April date on that blog.
Bob M
I bet those who notice the dime also sort their pellets.
B.B.
Sounds like you got a good one. How did you know?
Why is this FWB 124’s trigger better than most?
-Y
Yogi,
I think it’s been adjusted and perhaps more. The Queen Bee had an even better trigger that I didn’t think was possible on a 124, so with skill this trigger can be improved.
B.B.
BB,
She is definitely a shooter, even if she is not the Deluxe. I am really looking forward to the 25 yard tests.
RR,
It is a Deluxe. Just that someone removed the front sling swivel.
B.B.
BB,
Well, that’s no fun. You just have to scratch your head and wonder why.
Nice shooting. Looking forwards to the 25 yard scoped and un-scoped.
Too bad you have to throw out the results due to that dime. I can tell from here it’s not calibrated. 😉
Anyway the fwb124 is the next of the 4 horseman I wish to aquire. I have a beautiful Diana 45 in excellent condition and a charactered pre safety hw35 that needs a new piston. The old one is scarred up a little from the oversized and loose spring jackhammering it around inside my compression tube. The seal is also ruined and in pieces.
Tickets were purchased for the Midwest show on the 3rd. Even my wife is going. 🙂 My unborn daughter will be there as well. I’m starting her as young as possible! 🙂
Punchin,
Which show is that?
Michael
Found it.
Michael
A sweet rifle for sure. I have the one my Dad owned and bought new in the mid 80’s. I shoot it a lot, it’s been resealed. It has accounted for MANY Red Squirrels. It shoots well with the old Silver Jets and current N & H Field Target Trophy pellets 4.51 head diameter.
Mike
Slightly off-topic, but .44 magnum power and 130 yard range with slingshots 2100 years ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/05/26/roman-militarys-secret-weapon-wailing-slingshot-bullets-with-power-of-44-magnum/?utm_term=.257d9a0dc00b&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1
Michael
Michael,
Sorry to burst your bubble but that article is completely wrong. The fastest a sling could propel those clay projectiles is 500 f.p.s. or maybe 600 f.p.s. A .44 Magnum shoots a lead bullet weighing more than twice as much, and shoots it more than twice as fast. That sling had the power of a .32 S&W revolver — about 250 foot-pounds at best. This is what happens when writer who don’t know anything about firearms or ballistics try to write about them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Not my bubble! :^)
A few times the “bullets” are described as being made of lead. The figure “50 grams” is used. Might the author mean “50 grains”? 50 grams would be what, nearly 800 grains?
And the article provides precious little detail about the weapon.
Michael
B.B.,
I didn’t mean to suggest that a projectrile couldn’t be 800 or so grains. Mr. Hollowpoint makes and sells pure lead (He has antipathy for antimony) 20mm bullets for air rifles that range from 1012 to 1750 grains.
Michael
Michael,
I think it had to be a real sling, because I don’t believe the catapult had been invented that long ago. And catapults would be a lot slower — maybe 300 f.p.s. or so.
Yes, grams and grains are dicey. But if they mean grams, the projectile becomes larger, so it’s like being hit by a fastball or a golf ball instead of a bullet.
B.B.
B.B.,
More than one means to an end, right? Ken Norton, I believe, said that getting tagged by a Muhammad Ali right hand was like getting hit by a Porsche going 120 miles per hour, but getting tagged by an Earnie Shavers right hand was like getting hit by a gravel truck going 50 miles per hour. (FWIW Norton fought 39 rounds with Ali but was knocked out in the 1st by Earnie Shavers.)
Michael
Michael
And you know I can relate to that with my car back ground. Well and my boxer arms. 😉 🙂
Gunfun1,
I once had the pleasure of conversing with Earnie on the phone for 15 or so minutes. He was very pleasant and seemed to enjoy hearing how in the 1970s he was my favorite heavyweight (along with Ali, of course, whom I briefly met once, too).
Michael
Michael
I never got to meet any of them. But it’s just what happened on the weekends when we was kids. Lived out in the country. But Friday nights did tend to get exciting when we went into town. So think I should leave it at that. 😉
B.B.,
You’re right to hold on to this one. It sounds like my 124: Incredible trigger, light and smooth cocking, no twang or vibration, and ultra-accurate. I guess it does lunge forward, but I suppose the lock time is so fast, the air rifle simply produces a quick thud, and that’s it. Like yours, mine almost certainly has been expertly tuned.
Excellent report.
Michael
You guys are really making me want to get a early model 124.
Maybe, just maybe one day.
Great shooting! A 124 will really shoot! I bought mine new in 1987 and it won’t be sold, traded, or otherwise lost. It’ll show me every tiny mistake in my technique. Shooting at 10 meters indoors with peep sites, I KNOW any 10 shot group larger than 0.25 can be blamed on techique, not equipment. Has taught me so much. Best pellets for mine are CPL, HN Finale Match Rifle 4.48 head diameter, Superdome, and JSB 8.44 domes, all have printed many 10 shot groups between 0.20 and 0.26 inches with aperture sites or scopes. Mine has Jim Macari seal, spring, lubes, stainless trigger, and laminate stock. The lube tune, heavier stock, and improved trigger really sweeten things. My FWB match aperture rear site is an aquired taste as it makes reaches to the safety tricky, but that’s how I normally it up, with aperture insert in the front globe. Great rifle. So much so that I once almost got a vanity plate for my car, ‘FWB 124’, but in the end I’m just not a vanity plate sort of person.
Should read… SEVERAL ten shot groups between 0.20 and 0.26, not many. Many, even most, groups have been similar to the ones shown in today’s blog. May
Should read… SEVERAL ten shot groups between 0.20 and 0.26, not many. Many, even most, groups have been similar to the ones shown in today’s blog. May
I bought my 124 .177 from Beemans when they were 1st offered by them and had them accurize it for me. I found that the Silver arrow pellet hey sold worked the best and in a vise I used a pencil eraser and red ink as my target, at 10 meters my 5 shot group was all in the same hole. I still have the pellets from back then and have since had the gun refurbished this past year with new seals and chronographed at 831fps. Has a what was considered at the time a premium Beeman scope. It out shoots my .22 Marauder hands down for accuracy. Been offered plenty for it but of course not for sale. Was my 1st and only springer. Never found the need to replace it till I wanted something much quieter. Still gets used for squirrels and shooting ants off my stone wall.
Sorry, meant Silver Jet. They are the ones that come to a point but have the rings around them to seal for better velosity
For the benefit of our newer readers, the artillery hold is how we hold spring-piston air rifles so they will shoot their nest.
Should be “shoot their best.”
Great 124 article. Back in ’73 when I was stationed in Okinawa, I bought one of the first FWB 124s that Air Rifle Headquarters imported. It was the deluxe version with a blond, hand rubbed epoxy finished stock. Robert Law sent it to me in two boxes-one with the stock and the other with the rifle itself. The only thing I dont like about it is the barrels’ rifling comes clear back to the breech where the pellet enters the barrel (see pic at the beginning of this blog). Males loading somewhat difficult without some type of pellet seat tool. The gun has never been taken apart except to replace the plastic trigger with a metal one. It still shoots 7.9 gr. lead at 760-780 fps. I dont know how fast it shot when new since I had no chronograph back then. I just took Robert Law at his word and assumed it was shooting in the 800 fps neighborhood. I still have it and its not for sale.
Reallead
I have a early 70’s ARH catalog from when I was a kid.
I dreamed about getting one of the many fine German air guns that was shown in the catalog.
All I can say is in these later years of my life I been trying to full fill those dreams I had as a kid. I have got to exsperiance many fine air guns for the last 6-1/2 years.
And yes they are what I thought they would be. And more. 🙂
Reallead,
You have a valuable air rifle. Those over-parge stocks were designed so the cocking slot was short to attenuate vibration. I call them the electric guitar stocks. I’ve only seen one, out of the 50 124s I’ve seen.
B.B.
BB
And you know that’s why we’re glad your here. I bet that is not even in the blue book.
GF1,
It (is) in the Blue Book. 7 Variations. Not sure what the “s” stands for,… but it is listed.
See below,.. I did respond to the Pelletgage comment, but did not hit reply first. 🙁
By the way,… why ain’t you got a Blue Book? You have owned and shot about everything in it.
Just kidding,…. you won’t ever even come close. 😉
Chris U
I usually by new guns. Not used ones. 😉
But I have on occasion bought used ones from people I trust. 🙂
But yes I really should have a blue book. But the gun is listed BB mentioned? With the blonde stock? That’s got to be a good look’n gun. Oh and I do like blondes. Be it girls or guns. 🙂
GF1,
Ooops,… the Pelletgage response was on yesterdays blog.
When I got mine I had read that for the best accuracy you needed a pellet seat. You pushed the pellet into the rifling and then with the round side it helped flare out the skirt for a better fit. Not sure if you can still get one but they do show up on the Pyramydair website. I believe there is also an article about using one. Never shot mine gun without using it. I also have a muzzle brake but not sure if it helps but at the time I was told they did.
When I last chimed in here I mentioned that my first air rifle was an FWB 124 that I bought around ’77-’78 while stationed at Parris Island. This was my first experience with an air gun trigger and for many years I really thought it was a “set” trigger. The only way I knew how to shoot was what I was taught in boot camp – using BRASS, breathe, relax. aim, slack, and squeeze. The 124 amazed me when I got the the slack stage and could actually feel a ‘set’ to the trigger and then a light squeeze would release the sear. To this day I have yet to experience a Rekord or T06 trigger but I can’t imagine anything that would surpass the one on that rifle.
B.B.,
I am stubborn but not foolish, (I hope). Pigheaded is what it was called back home.
My budget is not such that I can become a collector of airguns. I think that I shall work on the the artillery hold and shooting a LOT in order to break in the gun and perhaps smooth out the trigger and general operation.
I hate to give up too soon. If the day comes when I give up on the Hunter, I think that the Discovery will be the replacement. I’ve read your review and it seems that you had me in mind when you were advocating for the design.
I will do something to “tune” the spring. Perhaps the “Tune in a Tube” is the best course of action. Rather than trying wheel bearing grease, why invent that which is before me and which is proven?
In the oh so dim recesses of my mind, I recall that someone, somewhere, offered a (plastic?) trigger “improvement” that fit a number of airguns, mine included. Aside from replacing the entire trigger assembly, assuming such exists, are there any aftermarket kludges that are helps for the trigger? I’m not about to do any tampering with the stock fit, etc such as filing or grinding any parts, but would consider replacing parts with improved parts.
Many thanks for the time and thought you invested in your answer to my frustration. I feel honored.
GrandpaDan in PA USA
I think what you are looking for is called a GRT trigger. Also consider looking at GTA. They have a section called “Gamo and Spanish Airgun Forum”. The guys on there can walk you through installing it or anything else.
-Y
GrandpaDan
Don’t get hung up only on the artillery hold. BB is right it is usually a good hold for magnum springers. But on the other hand I have had magnum springers work by actually resting the stock of the gun on the bag and holding the rifle. Not letting it be free to move.
Just make sure first you can hold the gun as still as possible before you pull the trigger. And I hate saying (pull) the trigger. You should gently squeeze the trigger. And keep going till you fill it stop even as the shot done went off. That’s called trigger follow through.
And that’s what also needs to be done with your hold on the gun. Stay in place still looking at your target till (after) the pellet done hit your target. That’s called shot follow through.That’s a way to discipline yourself to keep a steady hold on the target. Any kind of trigger jurking or movent during the shot firing can cause problems to get the pellet to hit where you want.
You may already know all this but I figured I would mention it just incase.
GrandpaDan,
Here again is the link to Tune-In-A-Tube, which I highly recommend, and a link to THE replacement trigger.
https://www.airgunproshop.com/shop/tune-tube-airgun-lubricant/
https://www.charliedatuna.com/
I note that “stock” in my previous post could be misunderstood. By stock I was referring to the trigger parts as they were manufactured, not the part of the airgun that one holds.
I know pedantic…
GrandpaDan
GrandpaDan,
You get points with me for being pedantic. There are over 100,000 readers of this blog all over the world and the clearer we can be, the better.
B.B.
BB,
I had to look that one up in the ol’ paper back dictionary. 🙂 (One who emphasizes trivial points of learning. // A teacher who insists on exact adherence to rules.)
I have one of those books, l also use it to check spelling from time to time.
GrandpaDan,
I bought my first springer airgun (actually a gas ram piston) in 2012. I still have the gun which is a Crosman Nitro Venom .22 cal. The trigger was horrible and the very first thing I did was buy a GRT-III from Charliedatuna.com. I paid $32 for it back then. The trigger was very easy to install and made a huge difference. The trigger is metal and after adjusting to 2#, it shot like a match trigger. That was a very worthwhile upgrade on this airgun.
Geo
How much difference did the trigger make? Alot or somewhat better. Curious as to what it did for your group sizes.
GF1
It made a world of differnce on the Crosman Nitro Venom. It just made is much more pleasant to shoot. I now feels more like the T06 trigger on the RWS34 which is also a very nice trigger. I can’t say that my groups were better because I was never able to shoot good groups with that airgun either, hence the purchase of the RWS34p. My groups were pretty similar with either airgun. I haven’t shot the Crosman since 2013. It’s a nice looking airgun though and it does have a nice shot cycle being a gas-piston.
Geo
Now you say that. And not putting you down cause it sounds like you got knowledge about air guns.
I think you are just lacking technique in your shooting.
And it really makes me wonder what you would shoot like with a known good gun in your hands. Like a HW30s or a RWS 54 Air King. Or a FWB 300s. Or a Maximus to name a few.
I really hate talking about accuracy unless it’s a gun that I know works. I had a Venom and a Titan and a couple NP Trails. I will have to say that I was not happy with them. And there is probably people out there that like them. Along with the 34 you have. There was some reason I didn’t like it when BB reviewed it. Can’t remember but I bet it was cause it wasn’t the kind of accurate I like.
Have you thought about a different air gun?
GF1
I understand why you would say that, being that I shot poor groups with both of these airguns. They are both similar in that they are hold sensitive. The Crosman Nitro Venom gas ram maybe not as much as the RWS, but both have similar requirements as far as shooting technique.
I began questioning myself after I was not able to shoot the RWS34 accurately either. That’s when I began the quest for knowledge here on the forums and YouTube channels. It has been a real learning experience and I have gleaned a lot of information. I could still be part of the problem but I have done all that has been suggested to improve my technique. In B.B.’s blog to GrandpaDan, he made a summation that fits me to a tee also. I just want an airgun that doesn’t take a lot of fiddling around and experimentation to be able to hit what I aim at.
Yes, as I have become more and more frustrated with trying to shoot the RWS34 accurately, I have considered an entry level PCP like the Maximus, Discovery, and for slightly more money…the Gauntlet. I have read lot of reviews and watched a lot of YouTube videos on these particular rifles. I didn’t realize what I was in for when I started with a spring and a gas piston break barrel rifle. So I may have made two mistakes in their purchase and now have about $500 invested in two break barrel airguns which are basically of no use to me. When a sparrow invades my bluebird nesting boxes in the back yard, I can’t get my RWS34 out, make sure I am holding the rifle just so, and noting all the required aspects of accurately shooting it, and still have a sparrow waiting for me to get everything just right before I take the shot. They just don’t stay in one place long enough for this to happen and sometimes I do have to rush the shot a little. Once you miss one of them they get very wary and as soon as they see the sliding door open only slightly, off they go. I guess I have just plainly picked the wrong tool for the job in this case. I have to cock and de-cock often and that is a hassle too with the RWS34. The gas ram Crosman cannot be de-cocked because of the bear trap. So then I have to shoot it to unload it so I don’t have a loaded gun sitting there after the sparrow has flown away.
Geo,
Just so you know,.. despite all of the information that you have been bombarded with,… there will be days when you are on top of the world, can’t miss and ready for World air gun domination! 😉 Then,… and THEN,… there (will) be days that you want to sell the whole lot of them. Today’s session was the latter. Not bad, but nowhere good as I usually am,.. which, hey,.. ain’t all that good.
Hang tuff,.. I am,.. Chris
Chris U
I know what you mean. Some days I hit so naturally like I can’t miss. Then the next day I can’t hit to save my life.
It’s crazy how that works.
Thanks for the motivation 🙂 I am sure you are just being modest. I have followed you and GF1 in the comments for sometime and you both appear to be very knowledgeable regarding airguns and shooting techniques. I wouldn’t even be posting here if I didn’t have problems. But you guys post here with the purpose to help us with those problems…for which I am truly thankful. Hanging tuff…
Geo,
🙂 …. not so much modest, as just being real. I shoot maybe 1-2 days over a weekend and only 40 – 60 shots at that, per session. If I am really into it, maybe 100 per session. Toss in bad weather or having to do other things,.. and that may be less. GF1 said he can do 2,000 in 2 months. Plus, he forces himself to rotate the guns all day long and shoots at various distances and in different ways.
GF1 has helped me a bunch over the 3 years or so that I have been around. Actually, everyone here has. He has owned more air guns than many of us will ever see. Plus, he is not afraid to tear into them and modify them. With all of that, comes a lot of experience.
Hang in there. It may take a switch up in something. I too have a .22 Maximus and would recommend it. I can sympathize with already having money tied up in something and then throwing more on top of that. Luckily, I found this site before getting my first air gun again in many years. Still, knowing what I do now,.. I (might) have done things a bit differently.
Chris U
Thanks. 🙂 🙂
GF1,
No problem. It is well earned. I was thinking,.. (RUN NOW!!!),… 😉 ,… that Geo and Grandpa, and others?, might be wondering,.. “how you can shoot that much”. It should be noted that you have an enclosed breezeway with heat and A/C,.. Year round shooting. Pop open a window and you are good to go. The rest of us have to make 2,3,4 trips to the bench. Some,.. may even have to set up a bench and seat. That can be a motivation factor.
That helps a lot. One thing though,… that is still a bunch of time invested in actual shooting. A patio door open to the wood’s,.. which is 15′ away from the end of the house/living room is my dream 365 day shooting gallery. Everything all set up within arms reach, fridge near, bathroom near, TV, etc., etc., etc.,… OOOOOH YEA! 🙂
Do you think that a Lazy Boy recliner all kicked back might be pushing it a “tad” too far? What would you call that?,… a reverse prone position?
Chris USA,
Long time ago blog member “Wacky” Wayne used to shoot from a Lazy Boy over a heated pool. He got seriously bitten by the Field Target bug and maintains a range I believe in Ashland, Oregon.
Siraniko
Chris U
I call that have’n fun shoot’n. 🙂
And yep I shoot everyday when I get home from work and for sure on the weekends. But if you do the math that’s only 250 shots a week. So divide that by 7 days and it’s only about 35 shots a day.
So in reality there are weeks that I shoot more than 250 shots a week. As the saying goes. Practice, practice, practice. 🙂
Geo
I grew up pesting on my dad’s farm as a kid. Air guns was totally back then. I shot .22 rimfire guns. But that was used mostly in the field and woods. I still pest today for two local cities by my house. And I do now live in the country where I do still use air guns to pest.
I don’t know if you caught it in the big blog yesterday but I did have a Gamo Whisper that I got for pesting probably about 5 or 6 years ago. I’ll get to the point. No way near accurate enough to get a sparrow in the rafters at 30 yards.
I just have to say. If you truly want to hit what you aim at 50 yards and in. And I’m talking sparrows. A .22 Maximus is it. Had a bunch if pcp’s too. And for the money they shoot. And yes you have to get at least a hand pump. But you will get at least 25 more shots out of a fill.
If you lived by me. I would for sure have you over for a weekend of shooting the guns I have. I think you would like what you see at the target.
GF1
You said that you have had a bunch of PCPs and you really like the Maximus. I would not mind a little pump action, that’s no problem for me at all. I have seen some videos and reviews of that rifle and they all praise the accuracy. The trigger, not so much. I truly respect your recommendation as you are a guy who has one and knows it’s capability.
I would like to hear more about your Maximus and why you think it might be the best value.
Do you use a hand pump? Beni or Venturi? What about optics, what scope do you have on it and does it require high rings to accommodate pellet insertion? ChrisUSA has said that you shoot a lot more than most and are a very good shot, so my experience may be different than yours.
It was very kind of you to say that if I lived near you that you would have me come and shoot with you. Some of those high end PCPs are things of beauty. I really appreciate the craftsmanship on them.
Geo
The Maximus is a accurate gun. Mine is a .22 caliber.
It does not need high rings if you stay with around a 44 mm objective lens.
I have a half mildot Hawke side wheel scope on mine. I shoot at 4 magnification with it.
This scope would be good for your sparrow pesting though. I had 3 of these scopes over time. They are very bright clear scopes.
/product/utg-4×32-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa-1-tube-3-8-rings?a=3015
And don’t let the price fool you. They are worth every bit more than they cost.
Geo,
Do not let the trigger on the Maximus hold you off from ever getting one. I have had mine adjusted so light that is was dangerous. It is at 1 1/2# now,.. maybe a tad less. Gunfun did his 1 way and I did mine another. Both ways are easy. I also moved the barrel band back about 3″ which seemed to improve the accuracy. Barrel oscillations, vibration’s and such.
On the loading,… it can be frustrating at the start. I have no problem now, but it is an acquired skill. That is the stupidest loading port there has to be. More room please!
As for scopes,.. because of the loading port,.. you will be limited on the ring placement. The key is to get a scope with some good tube “real estate”. ( the tube portion that is fore and aft of the turret mound) The longer there, the better. That way you can slide the tube fore and aft to get the proper eye relief.
The scope that GF1 recommended looks good.
Chris U
That scope was previously named the golden image scope. And for good reasons.
It does have a very clear sharp image. I guess you could call that a golden image. 🙂
GF1,
Dang Dude!,… That makes me want to replace the one I just got! 😉
Chris
Do you fill your Maximus with a hand pump? That would be my only option.
I did look at the scope recommendation from GF1. I really need more than 4x magnification at 25 yards. My RWS34 has a Hawke 3-9x50AOIR mil-dot scope which has etched glass reticles. It is a pretty nice scope. Would that mount on the Maximus or would the objective lens be too large? Just a thought. I like the Hawke SWAT scopes and the UTGs with a side parallax. It’s very difficult to adjust the front parallax while staying on target with my RWS. I always use the 9x power too.
Geo,
I have a Shoe Box 10 auto pump,… but a hand pump should be ((( just fine ))). Your scope sounds more than good enough. Sorry I recommended/endorsed the other.
I just got a new UTG scope 3-12×44 and I ordered med. UTG rings which put the front bell (with cover) about 3-4mm off the barrel. For a 50, you might want to go high rings.
Not sure about your eyes, but 9 is pretty darn high at 25 yards. 3 would reduce the “shake” by a huge amount. Foer what you are wanting to do,… the front AO would be fine. You do not always have to adjust that for every range,.. as long as you are close to that same range.
Geo,
Catch me at the bottom,… we are running out of room up here.
Geo,
You asked about scope/rings and I may have responded before giving full thought to the matter. Assuming that your 34 scope has no adapter mount and just rings,.. your rings should be fine on a Maximus. The key is where the barrel drops away from the action. If 2 rifles are near the same in that area,.. the scopes should interchange.
Just for your future reference, I have got on the manufacturer’s site and looked at ring specs. and scope specs. for actual dimension’s. From that,.. do a paper mock up,.. drawing only,… and you can tell if the front bell will hit the barrel. For the M-Rod,.. I did this as I had the gun first. My final result ended up just where I calculated.
A pain I know,.. but you can not trust that 1 manufacture’s “medium” ring will be the same height as another manufacturer’s “medium” ring.
Chris U
Remember lower magnification does tend to brighten and sharpen up the sight picture.
I’m telling you you need to try low magnification shooting.
And you need to get over the illusion you can’t see the target to get the reticle on target.
I guarantee if you put that dot or line right on your target your going to hit. Plus you won’t pick up on all that shake that can be deciving on higher magnification.
Like I said people should experiment with different magnification on your paper targets and see what happens.
Remember me talking about sizing my circle target at a 100 for my mildot when we did that hundred yard shoot off.
Try some lower magnification at 35 yards and tell me what you see and what your groups end up like on your target.
GF1,
Yup,… you taught me well,…. say’s the humble Grass Hopper. 😉
I find that 7 at close (25/30) works good for me, about 9 at 70 and 10-12 at 100.
I am pretty sure that I have tried the low/low mag in in the past and ended up where I am at.
Chris U
Imagine what I see at 35-50 yards with open sights.
Or with my red dot at those distances.
You place the sight on target and shoot. It’s like aim error decreases. It’s crazy how it works. I’m thinking to myself I can verily see the steel spinner at 35 yards let alone try to place the sight on it. Then I pull the trigger and I’ll be darn if it don’t hit.
Really it’s a different kind of shooting. And it works. Even out at longer distances than 50 yards with open sights.
You remember BB’s blog about the long range open sight pistol shooting? Pretty cool stuff is all I can say.
Geo
I just did a test that might interest you. Maybe this is related to us thinking your barrel is oversize or not consistent from breech to muzzle.
I took 12 of the Daisy wadcutter pellets that my HW30s shoots good. I loaded them into my Wildfire circular clip. That clip I have to take a Bicycle ball point pen and slightly seat them in the clip for them to shoot good out of the Wildfire.
The clip does size the skirt down compared to how the pellet comes out of the tin. So what I did is pushed the pellets back out. And on my cloth table top shooting bench. And note. I did not push them through the hole they where in. So then took and shot them out of the HW30s.
Guess what accuracy went to you know what. Not good at all. Pellets went everywhere. Then shot pellets straight out of the tin. Again guess what happened. Accuracy was back to normal.
So maybe the head size to the barrel is important as well as the skirt size being to small for the barrel.
I can tell you this. When I did sort pellets I used a caliper. And just a note. I’m a machinist. From maintenance to production. But I measured overall length, head diameter, skirt diameter and waste diameter. Along with weighing the pellets.
What dimension is most important is hard to say. Maybe there is different combinations of dimensions that need to be right. Who knows. But I can say that when you do find pellets that are consistent dimensionally out f the tin. That does help grouping.
So gun, pellets, technique and so on need to be right. But another thing is what kind of accuracy do yo expect out if the gun and what your using it for makes a difference too.
GF1
I appreciate all of your responses to help me figure out why my RWS34 won’t shoot good groups.
That was an interesting and revealing test you did and kind of proves that the skirt geometry is important as well as the head. Even though the measured skirt diameter on the JSB 15.89gr pellets is 5.72mm, because of the taper there is only a knife edge that is actually that size. It is very apparent that the pellet is not engaging enough of the rifling in the bore to seal well.
I expect to be able to shoot 1″ groups, or less, at 25 yards and do it consistently. As I have stated in my posts, my main purpose for the rifle is to dispatch pesky sparrows from my bluebird nesting boxes and feeders. I am shooting paper because that tells me if I am able to call my shots. I cannot accept anything less than those groups, or I may as well throw rocks at the sparrows. My intention is to dispatch them, not scare them away and then later having them come back again.
I too started my career as a certified machine technician. Then a couple years later moved to the quality department as a tool, gage, and layout inspector in charge of machine setup and first article approval. I worked for the last 20 years as a coordinate measuring machine programmer on Zeiss CMM.
I began inspecting the pellets with a digital caliper but then realized that it was too easy to deform the pellet and the feel was not as sensitive as using a micrometer. So then I rechecked the pellets I had measured with the calipers using a 1″ mic with a .0001″ vernier scale. I measured the head and skirt sizes to be slightly larger using the mic…actually about .0008″ larger. I could get a much better feel with the micrometer and I could see the very slight rub on the pellet. Thanks for hanging with me to achieve my goal.
Geo
We got two Zeiss CMM’s at the shop I’m at now. All I can say about them is they are a machine that you hate to love. They do serve their purpose to give a purchase receipt to the customer if you care to look at it that way. Otherwise they tend to be only as good as who programs them. Hard gauges and indicators can do the same. I got t many arguments I can bring up about CMM’s.
But back to the point of what we seem to be trying to figure out. You shooting sparrows effectively.
You know something else that comes into play. How close you can be to your sparrow targets. Stalking was definitely something us kids learned when shooting air guns.
First thing we learned is how close we needed to be to make a effective shot. That was based on how good we where and how well the gun could shoot. You had to know what your gun and yourself was capable at different distances. If you couldn’t hit what you wanted at 30 yards you better get in closer so you could hit.
Back when I was a kid I didn’t have the option of getting a more accurate air gun. I learned what it could and couldn’t do with me shooting it. And it didn’t matter to me if my buddy could shoot it better than me. I learned to shoot it and be effective. That was it bottom line. No hundred different pellets to try. Just shoot and learn how that gun did with me shooting it.
Probably not very helpful but just telling what I exsperianced.
I totally agree. The same with me when I was a kid. We had BB guns like a daisy and you had to be very close to the sparrows. I know we probably missed a lot but we got a lot them too. I don’t think we ever shot paper. We’d shoot cans and bottle and such and if we hit them we thought we had some pretty accurate guns. Then when I was a teenage I got a Crosman muti-pump .177. Man, I thought that was great. I could shoot the heads off of turtles at 10 yards easily with open sights. Again, never shot at a paper target. That old Crosman is close to 60 years old and it’s still in my gun cabinet. The pivot pin is broken but she would still shoot if were to get it fixed. It’s just a keepsake now. I still have an old daisy that I use to ping a squirrel from my bird feeder occasionally when I don’t really want to kill them. They are back in ten so I guess it doesn’t hurt them much.
Regarding Zeiss CMM, you are probably on the other side of the fence and receiving the results of the measurements. The setup guys didn’t like it much when I gave them a report showing out of tolerance dimensions. The operator has to know what he’s doing or it’s garbage in and garbage out though. We purchased the Zeiss because the hard gages being used to verify dimensions on our gear pumps were totally not capable. We had to maintain true position tolerances of .0006 dia. That’s like +/- .0002 on bore locations. We had a Cordax CMM and that was accurate to +/- .0005″ but the Zeiss was accurate to +/- .000050″. The probe system that Zeiss uses makes it the most accurate CMM. There’s that Germany quality again 🙂
Geo
It sounds to me like you pretty well exsperianced things with air guns now and as a kid. Well pretty much like I did.
You know what. I think your just trying to make us all school ourselves here on the blog. I think you got a pretty good idea of what is going on with the shooting situations you mentioned.
🙂 😉
Geo
You know what this totally slipped my mind. This is something I do if I see accuracy going away.
I put about 3-4 drops of silicones based oil in the barrel and in the transfer port opening where the air blows into the barrel.
Do the drops in the transfer port hole first. Then stand the gun up with the butt of the stock on the ground. Leave it like that for about 4-5 minutes then put the drops in the barrel and shoot as normal.
See if your groups start getting better after about 10 or so shots. I do this in pump guns and pcp’s too. Just in the barrel though on those types of guns.
But here’s the oil I use.
/product/rws-air-chamber-lube-dropper-silicone-oil-50-oz?a=3002
Dear BB,
I am thinking of buying a new HW30S (Rekord trigger and open sights), relatively inexpensive here in the UK, as a family plinker.
I had no luck so far locating a Diana 27 in decent shape and I do appreciate classic craftmanship (BSA Meteor is too cheaply made for my taste). Any other good alternatives to the HW30 and what caliber do you recommend?
I already have an .177 HW80.
Thank you
Julian
Julian
Get the HW30s. You won’t be sorry.
Julian,
I think you have chosen the best rifle. If there was a better one, I’d tell you. There are nice vintage rifles like the FWB 124, the Diana 27 you mentioned and the older HW 50S, but of the airguns made today, the HW30S is the best.
Of course the TX200 Mark II is still the absolute finest spring gun made, but it is in a whole different category.
B.B.
They sell it both in .177 and .22, which one to get?
Pacala,
Only .177. The power is so low — why give up velocity?
B.B.
Got something here that’s off subject. As usual for me.
Halfstep you might be interested in this. You know back when we had the leak down problem with the Wildfire. Well at that time I ordered the tube and componants to change my Wildfire into a Co2 gun from Crosman with 1077 parts. They cost right at $29 shipped.
Well then remember I got my Wildfire working on a lower 1400 psi fill pressure by lightening the trigger return spring. So anyway I have been holding onto the parts. Well I decided Friday since I was going to be off 3 days with the holiday weekend to take the PCP tube out of the Wildfire and put the Co2 tube in.
First off it’s kind of a swap in and out thing when you have the end plug valve in the tube. So now basically after I made the swap. I have the PCP tube assembly all together setting on my bench. Basically take the action out of the stock and open the two sides up of the receiver and theirs the tube. It lifts right out with the exception of the barrel band. You have to slip it off and put it on the tube your swapping into the gun.
But the reason I mostly wanted to try it was to see if the valve from the Wildfire would still give good velocity and shot count on the 12 gram Co2 cartridge.
Guess what. Still getting same velocity as it was operating as a PCP. But here’s what’s interesting. I’m now getting five 12 shot clips on a Co2 cartridge. The Wildfire as a PCP would only get 4 clips on a fill. And when I had my old 1077’s before the Wildfires came out I would only get 3 clips per 12 gram cartridge. And of course all the shot counts I just mentioned were usable shots. I could get more but power was dropping off rapidly.
The only thing that is happening which is the characteristic of Co2 is the power does drop if I rapid fire the 12 shots as fast as I can. But load up another cartridge and it’s back to normal. And also if I take say a 1/2 second between shots I don’t see any drop in velocity.
So now if by chance I go out to my brothers house to shoot with my kids and his I can bring my Co2 Wildfire and not worry about the PCP pump. Also since I don’t have a hand pump and only my Shoebox compressor. I now can shoot the Wildfire on Co2 say like if the power goes out for some period of time.
Which also makes me think if I bought the tubes and componants for a 2260 I could convert my Maximus or a Discovery to Co2 power. Or vise versa. Buy the tube and components for a Discovery or Maximus and make the 2260 a PCP. Not that everyone would want to go through the hassle of taking the guns apart and swapping. But at least it’s a way to keep a gun shooting.
Here’s the 1077 parts that work for the Wildfire. And once you put these peices in the 1077 tube. It’s basically a tube sitting on the table. It’s very simple to assemble. The peices all just slip together.
Item 30__ bushing__ 1077-029
Item 31__ o-ring seal__ 130-032
Item 32__ plug assembly__ 1077-036
Item 33__ tube pin__ 1077-031
Item 34__ tube__ 1077A017
Item 35__ peircing knob__ 1077A046
Like I said about $29 shipped.
And in this sentence I meant load up a 12 shot clip and it’s back to normal velocity. Not cartridge.
“The only thing that is happening which is the characteristic of Co2 is the power does drop if I rapid fire the 12 shots as fast as I can. But load up another (cartridge) and it’s back to normal. And also if I take say a 1/2 second between shots I don’t see any drop in velocity.”
GF1,
I had to go into the hospital with a bad infection after my second lithotripsy for that kidney stone, so I’ve been out of touch for 6 or 7 days. I also haven’t been thinking too clearly with the fever and all so maybe that’s why I don’t understand why you are converting your beloved WiFi into a 1077. Now that I have a setup that will finally hold air I ain’t never taking it apart again if I don’t have to. I think it is a kind of fragile build that Crosman is using and won’t hold up to a lot of disassembly and reassembly before it fails. Just my opinion. I bought my 1077s for $36.00 each refurbished(they were like new) so it wouldn’t be worth the time it takes to switch back and forth.
Can you describe the “5 useful clips” that you are getting on co2? Are you talking about a certain amount of drop at some distance or are you using a chrony to measure some velocity spread. I think you explained this with your WiFi detune but I can’t find it. (I try to save comments to my posts and points of interest that come up in the blog in a folder on my desktop) Are you saying with the co2 and wildfire valve and modded trigger spring you are getting same velocity and shot count as with the hpa tube?
I haven’t had a chance to really wring out my WiFi yet (at least I don’t think I have. It’s been a fuzzy couple of weeks) but I’m getting a good shot count and it”s working out to almost exactly 1 pump per shot. Also if you Google Remington Express Wadcutter pellets you may find a major sporting good chain has Wadcutter and Hollowpoints for $3.99 per tin of 500. Very good quality and more than good enough to feed these starving WildFires.
Halfstep
Bummer about the hospital stay. Hope your doing better now.
And basically wanted to see if the Wild fire valve would work with Co2. I was off for the 3 day holiday weekend and figured I would try it while I had a little extra time. And that’s kind of how I am. Sometimes I just can’t seem to leave well enough alone. 🙂
But yep now more clips from Co2 than high pressure air (HPA). 5 clips on Co2. 4 clips on HPA.That’s by shooting and watching for point of impact (POI) drop. And got same velocity over a chrony in HPA and Co2.
And I have been shooting these pellets out of the Wild fire and my HW30s. They are working good in both guns. Obviously the HW30s can stretch the distance a little farther than the Wild fire.
/product/daisy-precision-max-177-cal-7-8-grains-wadcutter-500ct?p=405
And I mentioned the other day to Michael when we was talking that I’m about ready to do something crazy. I didn’t say I what I was going to do. So your the first to hear on the blog. I’m going to get out of PCP shooting.
I already did the Wild fire. Got my HW30s. And got my old FWB 300s on the way. As well as a .22 caliber Air Arms Tx 200 Mrklll.
And then I bet your wondering about the .25 Marauder and .22 Maximus and my Shoebox compressor. Well they got sold. Bet your wondering what I’m going to do for long distance shooting like I did with the Marauder. Well I got a couple Savage 93’s. One is a .22 and the other a .17hmr.
The .22 rimfire I shoot alot already. I got a bunch of different velocity rounds with different weight bullets. 710 fps 40 grain, 950 fps 60 grain all the way up to 38 grain 1500 fps. So that’s a pretty versatile gun. And the .17 hmr. That gun will stretch out to 200 with a pretty flat trajectory.
So yep crazy Gunfun1 is switching it up again. 🙂
GF1 ,
Oh Man! You can’t play football AND basketball? Why does firearms have to REPLACE air guns ? Can’t they live together in a happy place on your “shootin’ out the back door” range? By the way can you do that with firearms too? Shoot out your back door, I mean?
Why the switch?
I bought a bunch of those Daisy pellets (12 beltclip boxes) on Academy Sports website. What they had pictured and described on the site was the old Daisy Quicksilvers which shoot great out of one of my .177 cal Crosman MKIIs. What got shipped were these newer wadcutters that you’re talking about and I try them in everything and nothing likes them. If they work in your WiFi that’s great but If they don’t the Remingtons are much better quality and cheaper at the moment.
Halfstep
Don’t know where I want to start here.
So I will go here first. I have shot air guns of many types along side firearms for some time know. Well goes all the way back when I was a kid growing up on the farm. I hunted and pested and plinked with the different ones.
I went through stages in the last say 7 years of firearms, and the different types of air gun power plants. So yes I shot them side by side. And that’s firearms, springers, nitro pistons, co2 and pcp all in one day of shooting. I would mix them up and shoot different ones on different days.
So I seen different things and what I liked and didn’t like. I turned guns around to get different ones to try. Just like I did my muscle cars growing up drag racing them.
I’m now at the point I just want some known good shooting spring guns that I have owned. And some that I haven’t owned yet like the HW30s that I knew was going to shoot good from the other type of springers in that catagory I had.
So what I call this and have called it this in the past on the blog. The changing of the gaurds. I want something now that’s easy to shoot, makes its own power without having to have extra equipment. Pick it up and shoot and no filling up for the next time. I shoot it when I want then put it away when I’m done.
So basically the pcp’s went to make room for the other type of air guns. And they will be shot along side the firearms like usual. Heck I still shoot shot gun alot. I think I do it this way is so I have a change. I don’t know. But I do know that I’m not going to stop shooting. That’s when you know I’m really crazy. I’ll shoot till I can’t no more is all I can say. 🙂
Oh and here’s one that will be on the way in a fairly short time. Yes u did sell my Shoebox too.
/product/diana-56th-target-hunter-air-rifle?m=3303
And here’s it’s cousin that I had a couple of too. They are sidelever fixed barrel magnum springers that you don’t even feel bump when they shoot. They both share the same anti recoil slide system. Well and similar to the FWB 300s I have on the way too. The 300 isn’t a magnum. So I think you could imagine how smooth the 300 shoots with the anti recoil slide system. And I need to mention that my new HW30s definitely falls into the smooth shooting accurate catagory too. Anyway here is the 56’s cousin. The Diana RWS 54 Air King.
/product/diana-54-air-king?m=398
So do you see what I’m doing. I’m selling so I can get something else. But if you get any of the airguns I just mentioned I’m sure you would like them. Kind of like catching big crappie. But instead your shooting cool air guns. 😉
GF1′
What a relief! I thought you were givin’ up air guns completely. I totally see where you’re goin’ now. If I had an air gun that had it’s own power plant that I could shoot well I’d be in heaven myself. Trouble is I ain’t found one yet and I’m not willin’ to spend years learnin’ to shoot the ones I’ve got. I’ve got a RWS model 52 and it has a pretty good firing characteristic ( It ‘THUMPS” real quick and I guess I shoot it best of my springers.) but it’s kind of heavy and I still can’t shoot it as well as I want. I’m in the same boat as GrandPaDan, I dream of an easy to shoot powerful springer. I know about sellin’ somethin’ you have to get somethin’ you want too. I needed $225.00 more to buy that gun back in 1987 so I sold a Colt ACE, which is a 1911 that shoots .22lr, to a guy I worked with for 225 bucks. There must have been 10 people that came to me pullin’ their hair out cause I sold it to him( instead of them) so cheap.( I still don’t know what it was worth on the open market at that time. Anyone know?) I needed $225 dollars and I never could find anything that gun would shoot accurately and I tried everything (ammo was sooo cheap then, makes ya weep) so I sold it. After all, my brand new Ruger Mark II Target would and still does put 10 rounds of Eley Target through the same hole at 40 feet from a sand bag rest and It was around $225. Now I got a question for you. Have you ever shot a Model 52. If you have, how much does the recoil gadget on the Model 54 and 56TH reduce the felt recoil. I could live with the weight if it shot anywhere smooth as a PCP, and yep I WOULD sell off my other springers to pay for it !
Oh yeah, I think you’d be an interesting character to drink a beer with sometime.Don’t know jack about building and racing cars but I bet you’d be able to teach me anything I might need or want to know !
Also have ya swore off 1077s and WiFis too ?
Halfstep
No have not shot a 48 or 52. But I know people that have them and the 54 air king as well.
The 54 is smooth. If you close your eyes and some one puts a gun in your hand and tells you to shoot. Then open your eyes. You would swear it was a PCP before you opened your eyes. The anti recoil slide system assorbs any shot cycle felt to the shooter. Smooth really smooth is all I can say.
And I have to say now in my comment I love my .22 rimfire rifles. Could tell you a bunch of story’s about them as a kid and now. Along with the car story’s. But yes I’m sure we would have a good time drinking a few cold ones. 🙂
And no way. I like my Wildfire too much. That’s the kind of .22 rimfire shooting I did as a kid when .22 long rifles sold for under .50 cents for a box of 50. I can’t even begin to remember how many box’s I shot on a weekend when I was a kid. All I can say is I was lucky to be able to have so much fun.
Sorry folks,
I have a correction to a comment that I made a couple of weeks ago.
I stated that I had been shooting the .22 Maximus at 100 and 70 yards,.. just playing around,.. and then went on to shooting 30 shots at 50 yards. All without a refill. Mmmmm? Well, today I read where BB estimated 20 good shots on the .177 he tested per the chrony results. 20,.. OK. 50 I would have remembered.
Long story short, I must have re-filled the gun after the 100 and 70, 20 shots. 🙁 x10! But,.. today I re-checked that. I was able to do 34 shots without a POI change on a 2000 fill. Which, is close to my 30 shots in 1″ at 50 yards.
That proves 2 things:
1) I messed up on my original comment 🙁
2) You need to actually shoot and see what your gun is going to do despite the pressure dropping,.. aside from
what the chrony is telling you. It may surprise you.
Chris U
Gosh Chris I think I heard that before about chrony readings and shooting. Just can’t remember where right now. 😉
GF1,
YUP!!!! You did say that! BUT,… you should have “called me out” on the 50 shot per fill bit! You have one and that should have thrown up a red flag to you. Unless you completely missed the comment.
Chris,
The RWS34P came with an RWS droop compensated lock-down mount. This mount obviously would not work on a PCP which would require separate rings. I think I would probably call Pyramid or Airgun Depot to get the correct scope mount rings for the gun and scope.
I recently measured the RWS single mount because I removed everything from my RWS. The front measures 0.8mm (.032″) less than the back to compensate for the break barrel droop in the 34.
Geo,
The drooper mount just means that you are using shorter rings, or should be. My TX and LGU both have drooper mounts and low rings. The goal either way is to keep the scope as low as possible.
The drooper mount will also insure that you do not have to crank up the elevation too far as elevation compensation is already built in.
I have not ever seen a drooper mount with rings built in. The mount/adapter is 1 piece and the rings are another. I think you would be just fine with what you have,
Geo,
I need to quit while I am ahead,… or behind,…. Yes you do have a mount with rings built in. ((I think you would just fine with what you have)). I just looked it up. Mine are separate.
I would send you a picture of it but I cannot insert one into the post.
It is the the first one shown on this page:
https://www.airgundepot.com/search.html?keyword=rws+mount&submit=&prv=&adv=&hawkb=
The mount and rings are all one piece and with a bolt action like the Maximus I believe the mounting rings have to span the breech if I am not mistaken.
I will say that the scope has never moved in this mount on my RWS34. The rings have a thin sticky like tape in them which really grabs the scope well.
Test: something a little different. I pushed a JSB 15.89gr pellet into the breech a couple of inches. Then I used a light at the breech and viewed from the muzzle end of the barrel. I could see all kinds of light from behind the pellet so there was no seal whatsoever. Maybe when the rifle is fired it would blow the skirt of the pellet out to seal. I don’t know but I would assume a lot of pressure would escape past the pellet.
I just got a new tin of RWS Superdomes and tried the same test. I could see 8 distinct dots of light which are the voids between the lands. These look much tighter and did not allow nearly as much light through. I shot these pellets when I first bought the RWS and they were good sometimes and not so good sometimes…maybe that was me because at that time I was still experimenting with the hold and had the forearm resting on my Cadwell shooting bag.
Geo
Got to say first I can’t see that good anymore up close.
But I believe you.
So you think the Superdomes fit better. That’s good. Not got to give us some shooting results.
I have used Superdomes in the past in .177 caliber with good results. Think I tryed them in .22 caliber. Can’t remember now.
But seriously. Give us shooting results with the Superdomes. I want to know what happens.
GF1
I went out this afternoon and shot some group with open sights as suggested by B.B. to take the scope out of the equation. I printed out some new targets with a 1″ bull on a 1/2″ grid pattern. I shot about 50 Superdomes through the bore to re-season it after cleaning the barrel. Then I set my target up at 15 yards. Viewing through the open sights the front bead is about the same width as the 1″ bull. I used a 6 o’clock hold as best I could and shot two (10) shot groups. The first group measured about 1″. The second group was 1.5″ with 8 of 10 within the 1″. By this time I had shot 70 shots and I had to quit for the day.
Open sights are never going to get the job done for me. I don’t know how you guys are able to shoot with open sights at 25 yards or more. The bead is like 3x the width of the bull at that distance. I think open sights are good for shotguns!
Regarding the RWS Superdome pellets, they do fit slightly more snug in the bore. I had one pellet that fell thru the bore with I inserted it but the rest of the 70 stayed in the breech. I would say that there was very little resistance to insert the pellets into the breech. That’s about it for today.
Geo
Read my reply below that I just wrote to you.
No need to reply twice to the same comment.
Geo,
Yes, you are 100% correct on needing 2 rings for the Maximus. I do not know what I was thinking,.. other than,… I wasn’t. 🙁 I think you will need highs with that 50 mm Objective you have. Like I said, the mediums I got left me 3-4 mm. The UTG site I believe gives the exact dimensions. If I can help with any actual Maximus dimensions, let me know. More than happy to assist.
As for the light test, (very innovative). It does not sound good. The only other thing is to expand the skirt and see what it looks like. Yes, the air blast may provide the final seal, but I think it would show less light.
I am going to assume that you are aware of having the correct eye relief. In your case, moving the mount and/or the scope in the rings fore and aft would the way. You want that clear every time that you come down on the stock with your cheek. If your not sure about that, ask some questions.
Chris U
I probably did miss it. But probably skimmed over it real quick. All depends on what day of the week it was and what time of the day. You know what I mean.
At least you caught it and not somebody else. 😉
GF1,
Yup,.. I know what you mean on day of the week and time of day. Hey, if I am wrong or off base on something,.. I have no problem with someone calling me out on it and me admitting it. In this case it was an honest lapse in mind. I am not sure what that says about my mind,.. but it probably ain’t good. 😉
Has anyone reviewed the Umerex Gauntlet? It only costs $299.00 so it is only $79 more than a Maximus. It it a mutil-shot with a ten shot mag, has a regulator, and a fully shrouded barrel. I have viewed some videos demonstating very good accuracy at 50 yards. It’s new so not many empirical reviews. This looks like a lot of airgun for the money. It’s a little on the heavy side and is quite long with a 28″ barrel.
Geo
If you saw videos of shooting results that’s about the best review that I can think of.
It should be a good gun.
But got to ask. How long do you plan on having it if you would happen to get one. Forever or for a little while.
The next question is. If you keep it forever will Umarex be able to supply repair parts. And if so could you do the repairs if you want with the parts you get from them. Or would you have to send the gun in if they would even offer the parts to fix it.
You better do your homework on your next gun you get. They all cost so much for a reason. Do you want to pay now or later is all I can say. And that’s if they are a good company that supports their product.
Geo791,
As soon as the Gauntlet starts selling I will review it.
B.B.
Geo,
The Gauntlet is nice. 3000 psi might not be so fun with a hand pump though. Think about that.
Had it been out when I got the Maximus, it would have been a tuff choice. Real tuff.
I love adjustable cheek pads, love repeaters, quite not so much a concern as I live in the country. Regulated is nice as long as everything works.
Light is nice, very nice,… I did not realize how nice.
Parts availability is something that I do give weight to on making a purchase. (as GF1 said) I do have a 92FS and the LGU and any time I wanted something, I gave up. I wanted a new trigger guard for the LGU as I wanted to drill out the back and add a trigger stop screw,.. and keep the original one. If memory serves correct, they would not sell me one because it had to do with the trigger assy.,… go figure. Maybe others have had better luck with Umerex.
Take care,.. I will be out most of the day but will check back in the PM.
Some things about the Gauntlet I don’t care much for are one, it’s a heavy gun at 8.5# and second, it’s long at 46.9″. I would like the compactness of the Maximus and the lighter weight too. The Gauntlet has a bottle that is removable and the regulator as I understand is built into the bottle. Nice thing about a regulated gun is that even though it can be pressurized to 3000 psi, you can use a hand pump and pump it to only 2000 psi with no loss of fps. The regulated pressure is 1100 psi and you just get fewer shots at the lower pressure. The Guantlet barrel has a full length moderator making it a very quiet rifle if that is needed. It would be nice for that second shot if you miss the first shot.
You and GF1 have made me question the availability of parts and repair. I thought Umerex was recognized as being a good company with good products. With all of the airguns GF1 has I’m sure he has some empirical knowledge of which companies are the best to deal with as regarding parts and service.
Got to ask, if you have a Benjamin Marauder which is known to shoot very well, why did you buy a Maximus? Also, is the Maximus manufactured in China? I bought a German made springer because I thought I would get the best quality by doing so…that may not be true in my case though.
Went out this afternoon and shot some groups with open sights as suggested by B.B. I printed out some new targets with a 1″ bullseye and 1/2″ grid pattern. I shot 50 RWS Superdomes through just to season the barrel again. Then I set my target up at 15 yards. When I look down through the open sights the bead is about the same width as the 1″ bull. I used a 6 o’clock hold as best I could at the bottom of the bull and shot two (10) groups. One group was 1″ and the second was 1.5″ with (8 of 10) w/n 1″ again. I don’t know how good that is but open sights just isn’t going to get the job done for me. I don’t know how you guys are shooting groups out at 25 yards with open sights. The bead is like 3x the width of the bull at that distance. I have no depth perception because I only see basically with one eye. I think open sights are good for shotguns .
Geo
Don’t really know where the parts are made for the Maximus. But they are supposedly assembled in the USA. And as far as customer support and quality. The pump guns and pcp guns are a better quality than their break barrels. I don’t like the Crosman break barrels. Now the PCP and pump guns to me are better quality. To me they are quality made guns that perform and last.
And as far as Umarex goes. Some of the guns they carry they want the gun sent in for repair and the warranty is limited. And some guns they don’t have repair parts for and others they do. So kind of hit and miss with them.
Crosman on the other hand has parts available for guns they don’t even make anymore. And what I like is alot of Crosman parts interchange from different guns if you know what your looking for.
And the Maximus verses the Marauder. Well their both good shooters and reliable. It’s that the Marauder has more features than the Maximus or Discovery. And it costs more. So kind of like a Cadillac or a Chevy if you know what I mean.
And I don’t know how many people on the blog shoot open sight out side. And when I say open sight I mean front post and rear notch. Not dot sights and such. That’s what I mostly done as a kid. I remember how good I actually was. So I have actually been forcing myself to get back to what I knew I could do as a kid. My eyes ain’t as good as they use to be. But I am getting back in the groove of open sight shooting. Like anything practice makes perfect.
And no open sights on shot guns is different. I grew up hunting with shot guns. Completely different than what I been talking about.
GF1
Good to know about Crosman and Umerex and their customer service. I will keep that in mind if I decide to go to the dark side and buy a PCP and pump. Do you have a preference between Pyamid Air or Airgun Depot? I have heard good things about both companies.
Yeah, it was a lot different shooting with open sights. I think the sights on my RWS34 are a lot coarser than the old rifles I shot as a kid. It was actually kind of fun once I shot for a while. I couldn’t tell where my pellets were hitting the target without getting up and walking to the target to see.
Thanks for the explanation of the difference between the Marauder and the Maximus. I think the Maximus would do nicely for my needs and it’s much less costly.
If you read GranpaDan’s post today, he and I are pretty much in the same boat. Only I would never consider a CO2 option.
Geo
Pyramyd AIr by far.
They have better discount sales and their website is set up better then AGD. Plus I think the customer service is better to at PA.
Have had problems with orders in the past with AGD also. Not with PA.
To me PA has their act together. Plus one of the most popular blogs around. 😉
Geo,
GF1 pretty well said it all. As for opens, I do not shoot opens and if my Red Ryder is any indication of how well I do,.. I won’t be any time soon. The peeps on my 499 I love. As for the M-rod, I wanted something that I could play with out to 100 yards. I got the .25. 2 things are needed to play past 50 yards,.. some speed and some weight.
Good comments too,…. I can see that you have been doing your “homework”. 😉