Crosman’s 2400KT carbine: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8

Today’s report is the start of another guest blog from blog reader HiveSeeker. He’s going to tell us about his Crosman 2400KT — an airgun many will not have heard of.

If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.

Over to you, HiveSeeker.

Crosman 2400 KT
The 2400KT CO2 Carbine is available exclusively from the Crosman Custom Shop in several configurations.

This report covers:

• In the beginning
• Choices
• Crosman Custom Shop
• Special delivery
• “Sassy Sandy” .177 target carbine
• “HiveSeeker” .22 light-duty small-game carbine
Pyramyd Air Cup

In the beginning
A year ago, my beloved Crosman 1377 pistol stopped holding air. Yes, I know — I could have repaired it, and added a half-dozen upgrades in the process. But I’m not a modder. And with a Crosman 760, classic 2100B and MK-177 in the house, my left arm was ready for a vacation from pump pneumatics. A budget of around $150 made a PCP out of the question, so I decided that a spring-piston or CO2 pistol would be the way to go for a replacement.

I also wanted something with more punch than my old 1377 for light small-game hunting and pest control — a pistol that could handle a charging squirrel if things got out of hand around the bird feeder! I hoped this meant moving up to a .22, which is more efficient than .177 for muzzle energy.

I’d installed a Crosman 1399 custom shoulder stock and scope on my 1377; and, if possible I wanted to stay with a scopeable pistol that could be converted to a carbine, too. What I was looking for was something comparable in performance and features to B.B.’s subsequent Crosman 2240 conversion to PCP would turn out to be (see Crosman 2240 conversion to air). In that blog, G & G commented, “I will want to see just how close it comes to being the same as an existing gun you could just purchase.” Without knowing it at the time, I was asking the same question — six months in advance!

I’m well aware that I tread on hallowed ground. More than a few of you can rebuild a Crosman CO2 pistol blindfolded, as we saw from the many comments (including G & G’s) to B.B.’s 2240 conversion series. And there are probably more mods available for this much-loved family of guns than anything out there except the equally beloved 1377. However, I’m going to take the approach of an average consumer who is looking for a reasonably priced, high-performance pistol that they can simply take straight out of the box and start shooting. So, modders, please bear with me — but I don’t think you’ll be disappointed, either.

Choices
My caliber preference proved to be the most limiting factor. Choosing a .22 dramatically cut down the crowd of possible contenders. The power requirement — needing a minimum hunting velocity of about 500 fps or better — whittled down my choices even more. In very short order, I was left with only two pistols near my $150 price ceiling: The Hatsan model 25 SuperTact or the Browning 800 Express. In fact, these were the only .22 pistols I found that advertised the velocity I wanted without moving into pneumatic (specifically the Webley Alecto Ultra) or PCP territory.

I quickly discovered that the Hatsan 25 SuperTact, which is scope-ready with a removable stock, does not actually hit the mark in real-world velocity testing. Scoring under 500 fps with all but the lightest pellets, it got crossed off my list. That left the Browning 800 Express. This gun is advertised at 600 fps in .22, is billed as “the most powerful spring-piston handgun made” and is scopeable. However, it does not have an available stock add-on. I was not satisfied with the single remaining choice my research had turned up.

Then, something fortuitous happened. An online acquaintance that happens to know a bit about airguns asked, “What about the Crosman 2400KT? It’s inexpensive, powerful, and more accurate than most springers!” Despite hours of research, I had missed this gun completely. It’s not available from any third-party vendors. Even at the Crosman website, it does not show up when searching their pistol listings. This gun is tucked away inside the Custom Shop. The 2400KT had completely slipped under my radar.

Even with this lead, I still had some homework to do. Crosman is completely silent on 2400KT velocities — on their Custom Shop website, via email and over the phone. I think I understand this from their perspective. Velocities will vary between different calibers and barrel lengths, and customers will be dissatisfied if they don’t order the right combination and get a different velocity than they’re expecting. However, doing some online research, I found out that the 2400KT CO2 carbine shoots faster than the 2300KT pistol (the other offering in the Crosman Custom Shop), and that an un-modded 2400KT in .22 should shoot over 500 fps. My choice was made!

Crosman Custom Shop
B.B. tells an amusing story about the possible origin of the Crosman Custom Shop (see Crosman’s 2240 Pistol – Part 1). The Crosman 2400KT CO2 carbine offered by the Custom Shop has a nice variety of part selections available. You can choose between .177 or .22, a variety of barrel lengths between 10.10 inches (in a .177 Lothar Walther match barrel) and 24 inches, pistol grips or carbine stocks, trigger shoes, muzzlebrakes, and scope or open sights. The widest selection of options is in the pistol grips, which range from maple ($35) to zebrawood or cocobolo ($60 — the price of a brand new Crosman 2240!). Custom engraving is free.

Special delivery
I placed my order. Crosman stipulates a three- to six-week delivery time on Custom Shop guns, but word on the street was that it usually takes only three. That’s exactly how long it took mine to ship. The Crosman Custom Shop puts together a really nice-looking package. Double boxing, nice Custom Shop shipping label and certificate of authenticity — I was absolutely charmed. Until I opened the box, that is.

I wish Crosman had spent as much time making sure the product arrived safely, as they spent making sure it looked good. The foam padding the gun comes boxed with is inadequate to keep it from sliding the full length of the long box. Both my .177 and .22 carbines received a beating during delivery, though there was no obvious damage. I lost a weekend’s shooting waiting to talk to Crosman customer service to confirm that both guns were probably just fine, and it should be safe to shoot them. This fine gun — and Crosman’s customers — deserve better.

Crosman2400KT Custom Shop
Nostalgic shipping label

Crosman2400KT Custom Shop 2
…and certificate of authenticity make a good impression on the customer.

Crosman2400KT Rough Ride
My brand new .22-caliber 2400KT received a beating enroute to its new home — this is a barrel impact on the inside of the box. I was glad I ordered the muzzlebrake! Better internal padding would have made the package perfect.

“Sassy Sandy” .177 target carbine
Disclaimer: The Sassy Sandy is named for my wife’s feisty performance on the shooting range, and nothing more!

I’m incredibly fortunate to be married to a woman who will shoot and fish with me (and occasionally out-do me in both categories). I wanted to include her in my upcoming airgun adventures, and my real budget was planned for two of whichever pistol I ended up picking out. Of course, I knew what was right for me might not be right for her, but that didn’t turn out to be an issue. When I picked the 2400KT, she was pleased with the selection, and especially with having a number of customizable options to choose from — she hadn’t expected that.

Crosman2400KT Sassy Sandy
The Sassy Sandy is a target carbine in .177 with 10.10-inch Lothar Walther choked match barrel, black custom shoulder stock, black trigger shoe, and black muzzlebrake. The scope shown here is a CV Life 3-9×40. The cost of this setup was $142.68, not including scope and rings.

My wife doesn’t hunt (or worry about charging squirrels), so she wanted to stick with the more accurate .177 caliber. That being the case, I decided to spring for the 10.10-inch Lothar Walther choked match barrel for her — the same barrel as on the Crosman 2300S. Ironically, this made hers the more expensive of the two guns, even though I’m the more avid shootist in the household. She was content with the black custom shoulder stock, and ordered a matching black trigger shoe and black muzzlebrake. Not including scope and rings, the cost for this setup was $142.68 — under my $150 budget with change to spare. The Lothar Walther barrel was the big-ticket add-on at $45.59, compared to only $7.90 to $12.72 for any of the other available barrels. Since I’m not planning to mod either of these guns, I also dropped an additional $10.00 each for Crosman’s lifetime warranty. Shipping for both guns, plus some pellets and accessories, was a ridiculously low $2.50.

I already had a CV Life 3-9×40 economy scope that had served well on a couple other airguns, and planned to temporarily mount that on the .177 2400KT. After spending some time with this combo, however, my wife has come to like the scope and has warned me off replacing it with something better (and heavier). It’s a lot lighter than the UTG that I selected for my own carbine. For a female or youth shooter eyeing a similar setup, I would recommend keeping the scope as light as possible.

For a valid accuracy test of the Lothar Walther barrel, however, I felt that she really needed an adjustable objective scope to minimize parallax. I finally talked my wife into letting me swap the CV Life for a Hawke Sport 3-9X40AO, the same length as the original scope and only a few ounces heavier. My wife and I will be testing both scopes and reporting on whether or not the better glass provides a significant improvement in accuracy.

Crosman2400KT Hawke 3-9X40
The CV Life 3-9×40 scope mounted on the .177 2400KT has performed well on several other airguns, but has no adjustable objective. Accuracy will be tested with this scope first, and then retested with the adjustable objective Hawke Sport HD 3-9×4 shown above it.

“HiveSeeker” .22 light-duty small game carbine
I already knew I wanted a .22 for my 2400KT and selected the 18-inch barrel to give me a little more velocity in the small game department (more on the relationship between barrel length and velocity later). There’s a 24-inch barrel available, but I was concerned that would make the gun unwieldy in the woods. As it turns out, the 18-inch barrel is probably optimal for my configuration anyway. I went with the simulated carbon fiber shoulder stock for a little more visual pizzazz; although this stock looks black on the Custom Shop website, it’s actually a dark blue. I stayed with the black trigger shoe and black muzzlebrake like my wife’s gun. I didn’t want too much shiny “bling” if I was going to use this gun for light-duty hunting, although brass accents would have looked very nice on this setup.

I had already picked out a scope for this gun, so I didn’t include any Crosman optics in my order. Not including scope and rings, the total cost for this setup was $123.57 — well under my original $150 budget. My one splurge was $31.25 for the simulated carbon fiber shoulder stock, instead of $11.75 for the standard black stock. The latter would have dropped the total cost to just $104.07 with absolutely no change in performance.

Crosman2400KT HiveSeeker
The “HiveSeeker” is a light-duty small game hunter and pest chaser in .22 with 18-inch barrel, simulated carbon fiber custom shoulder stock, black trigger shoe, and black muzzlebrake. The scope is a Leapers UTG 4-16×40. The cost of this setup was $123.57, not including scope and rings.

That’s where the story ends today, but HiveSeeker will return soon to finish his description of the 2 airguns.

Pyramyd Air Cup

Pyramyd Air Cup
Tomorrow, I’ll be in Ohio to participate in the first annual Pyramyd Air Cup. I hope to meet and and talk with any blog readers who can make the shoot. Even if you’re not participating in the matches, there will be lots of opportunity to shoot guns supplied by Pyramyd Air at the sight-in range.

Joining me at the event are airgun hunter and writer Jim Chapman and Airgun Reporter Paul Capello. I’m shooting in the hunter field target class with an Air Arms TX200 and scope provided by Pyramyd Air. I’m not expecting to win, but I am planning to have a lot of fun! If you haven’t made your motel reservations, get to it! All the info is on the Pyramyd Air Cup website.

136 thoughts on “Crosman’s 2400KT carbine: Part 1

  1. This is the perfect moment for my posing this question, during a customization/modding article, and right after the wonderfully tight groups with fwb sport…. You had said this Tom… “Now, if it isn’t accurate, the price doesn’t matter. I’m not one of those shooters who evaluates everything by how much it costs. It’s either accurate or it isn’t, and I have NO time for guns that aren’t accurate.”….. now for my question… WHAT!? What about the fact that some need a little polishing here and there to get where they should be? What about the fact that the sporter might cost 900+$, but most guns are not at that level, but could theoretically, and we of course wish they were? Well they all 95% of the time can be made to stack pellets and with the right bit of elbow grease here or there, isn’t very difficult! Is a blog on accurizing airguns in order? Maybe people know about a certain type and you could take entries and piece it together?




      • Not any specific gun, but all guns, depending on their powerplant, have common problems that can kill accuracy in an other wise great gun. Im sure a lot of people went through the hassle of boxing shipping returning a gun that was spraying em on the target, when a quick diagnosis and two twists of the wrist, they could’ve had it shooting how they expected. Not everyone knows the simple things to look for and don’t know how easy most fixes are. You mention alot of diagnostic situations while testing guns, but having it all together in a “your gun won’t group, BBs garage checklist” might be a huge help to beginners, and veterans alike. Each powerplant has its checklist.


        • RDNA
          You just don’t know how true the words are you spoke. But I just hate those guns that think they are the boss and will only do what they want. Everything has its time. But how much time do we have?


      • B.B.

        One pistol you should talk about “accurizing” is the new Legends M712. I’ve read several reviews here at Pyramyd Air and one at the Canadian Airgun Forum that describe this pistol shooting well off-target high and to either the right or the left. As I described in my review to Pyramyd Air, mine shoots at least 7/8 inch to the right and an inch or more high with the rear sight in its lowest position. The possible reason for this is the loose barrel mounting. The Canadian Airgun Forum has some suggestions for repairing this problem. When you continue your review of the M712, could you include a discussion of what repairs and adjustments could be made to make the M712 shoot on target?


  2. Way to go Hiveseeker! Thanks for beating me to it. I was beginning to think I was all alone on this gun and there would be no thorough and objective reviews to learn from. I was sure B.B.’s hands are tied and the 2240 project was as close as we’d be getting. I’m gonna get one but I’m gonna be bulk filling before I get through many Co2 cartridges. For just over $100 you get a game getting little, transportable carbine(ready to rock)
    Congrats & Thanks!


  3. Hiveseeker
    First off nice write up. I enjoyed reading it.

    Here is something I have ran into with the 1399 stock and mounting a scope. The line of sight when you rest your cheek on the stock. I know you have probably heard of the RAI adapter that allows you to put a AR stock on the 2240’s and such. But there’s a easy trick I have used for a long time withe the 1399 stock.

    Take a piece of that foam that his round with a slit down it thats used for insulating your AC lines on your home AC unit. I cut a piece about 6″ long then put it on the stock and fasten it with two small plastic zip ties. It really helps out to repeat your hold and line of sight with the gun. And its a little more comfortable on your cheek.





          • It kept sliding around. I was looking for some compression wrap so I wouldn’t have to deal with the gummy adhesive when it blew across the yard and landed in front of a buncha puppies. I’ve got plenty of the stuff in all sizes. There is also some that acts almost like a putty when you try to form it. I know the Airmaster’s stock is just plastic but the adhesive must come off if I don’t wanna shave every time I wanna shoot it. and I’d be likely to put my eye out with zip tie ends flopping in the breeze or at least scratch myself on the sharp edges if I cut ’em back.


            • Reb
              After you cut them back just take a piece of 180 grit sand paper and give it few swipes of the sand paper and that takes care of the sharp edges. And you position that slit down on the stock and have that tie end up in that slot when you tighten it up. I tighten it so the tie pulls into the foam a little over a 1/8th of a inch and position the tie about 1 inch from the ends.

              And yea I guess your right that would be a bummer if you had to shave every time you shoot. I’d be one clean looking dude if I shaved every time I shot. Or razor burned and wouldn’t be able to shoot or something,or something. 😉


    • Gunfun1,

      That’s definitely an issue. It’s hard to get a good “spot weld” with this low carbine stock. I’ve compensated by really working on my sight picture through the scope, but am willing to try something new. I’m aware of the RAI adapter (we’ll be talking about B.B.’s 2240 conversion here), but that requires modding the gun.


      • Hiveseeker
        I don’t know why they put so much rake in the 1399 stock. Its like they didn’t think somebody would put a scope on it with the dovetails on the steel breeches. Unless that stock was designed with the open sights in mind that the plastic breeches have. I guess that could be a possibility. It would definitely be a better line of sight that way.


  4. Wow, I’m torn between never having realized that there was a custom shop in the first place, and being a little perplexed that the shop seems to be limited to two basic models (which seem nearly the same anyway).

    Nonetheless, I’m certainly interested, and will follow as such.

    One thing I’d be very curious to know: what is the length of pull on the standard carbine buttstock? And does anyone know if that stock is solid plastic, or hollow? (I’d almost certainly want to modify the stock to bring it down to a 12.5″ LOP, like all my rifles. I suspect that might be a reasonably simple mod to do, especially if the material is solid.)

    The other question is: how much difference would one expect in velocities between the 14.6″ barrel and the 18″? You allude that the .22 in 18″ might make 500fps, presumably with 14.3gr Premiers or something similar. Any idea of what to expect from 14.6″ with all else equal? (I’m looking for ballpark, here.)

    Anyway, thanks for the series–looking forward to it!


    • How is it going Kevin. You still doing anything with the airsoft stuff?

      And you didn’t catch any of this. Its a lot of reading. But some interesting stuff to be found.
      /blog/2014/07/crosman-2240-conversion-to-air-part-1/

      But if your not a modder these guns that Hiveseeker is talking about are kind of the same. Instead of buying the pieces and puting a gun together Crosman is doing it for you and they are ready to go.


    • Cut down? There is nothing there to cut down.

      Just so you know, this stock is hollow. It is the same stock that comes with the Marauder pistol package.

      LOP? I’m clueless. I am certain it has been noted somewhere around here and I am certain that HiveSeeker will be happy to enlighten us in this matter.

      As for the difference in velocities, you can probably expect around 25-50 FPS. If I recall correctly, I believe BB stated somewhere in this blog that the optimum length for a CO2 rifle barrel is around 18 inches due to the limitations of compression and expansion of this gas.



      • Hm, hollow, eh? That would seem to complicate the matter of reducing the length of pull.

        And I fully admit I’m a bit persnickety about LOP. I like it short, where it seems the rest of the world wants it as long as possible.

        I am aware of the RAI adapter, which would seem to be functionally acceptable, but I haven’t warmed to the aesthetic at all. 🙂


        • Kevin
          The LOP on the 1399 stock that is on the two guns that hive seeker is 12.5 inches from the rear of the trigger frame to the butt of the stock so I believe it is right at the length you are looking for in as designed condition.

          I my self find it just about the right length for me and allows me to get a good sight picture with a scope although the foam trick that GF1 has talk about may help but I have not done it yet so I cannot say from experience.

          Buldawg


    • HiveSeeker,

      Well done, Sir! I’ve been looking at Crosman’s Custom Shop website, so your report is of special interest to me. I look forward to reading your accuracy and velocity tests.

      RB




        • Kevin
          No problem. And all I can say is the modded 1377/22’s and 2240’s on Co2 or HPA are nice little guns. And what a lot of people mis is they are very light guns when loaded up with a nice size scope even. And they are a accurate combination.


    • This reminds me of my Winchester model 12 in 12ga It was my Stepfather’s chicken hawk gun. He stood 6′ 4 and I’m 5′ 5″. Wow! That thing was huge! A few years later I was browsing a pawnshop next door to the shop and saw the model 12 as soon as I got in the door-$125 later and the gun fit perfectly in 16 ga It was probably only about 1/2 inch shorter at the trigger but the pump was a whole other story. I want it back!


    • Kevin,

      You can add your name to the list of people begging for other guns to be offered in the Custom Shop, especially the 1377 and 1322!

      The pull on the 2400KT is long, just over 15″.

      And you are using your secret precognitive abilities to peek at Part 5! We’ll be talking about barrel length in detail, so hang in there.



  5. Great article; HiveSeeker!
    Both of your beautiful Crosman 2400KTs remind me that up here in Canada you require a handgun (RPal) license to buy one – something that puts it out of the reach of us ordinary air gunners.
    Just very jealous of you!


  6. Hiveseeker is doing an excellent job with the review! Unfortunately I have tried ordering from the custom shop and they wouldn’t ship to IL, including the rural region where I live.


    • Mark
      I live in Illinois about 20 or so miles from St.Louis.

      I never have tried ordering from the custom shop. But have ordered numerous parts from Crosman including barrels.

      How long ago was it? Was it a .22 cal. version? Maybe that’s why. There could of been something to do with the law in the past. But that has changed about a year ago I believe.

      What did they tell you? Or did you ask.

      Sorry for all the questions but I have thought about ordering from the custom shop. I like the engraving and some of the options that are available that you can’t normally get.


      • The issue was last December, as I recall. I attempted to order a 2300KT, but the order failed when I entered my address. I called customer support, and the best they could do was tell me I could have it shipped somewhere else (as in, outside of IL). They said they had no way to circumvent the system. I was able to order a few small parts recently without an issue, but that doesn’t resolve the issue of ordering an airgun.


        • Mark
          I wish I knew why. I think I will try to find out some more info. I have talked to them in the past and this would definitely be something that needs to be known about.



            • Illinois has some funny airgun laws.

              But in short if the velocity is 700 fps and up on anything over .18 cal. it has to be done through a FDL. And they say right in the same sentence that airguns are no longer considered by state to be firearms.

              I just purchased a .25 cal, air gun but it was under 700 fps by mail with no problems and I live in Illinois with out going through a FDL and I have bought some air guns that I did have shipped to a dealer by me. I’m thinking the issue with the shipping from Crosman is part of why they don’t want to list any velocities for their custom shop guns. It just keeps them out of trouble and less they have to worry about keeping track of with the different combinations that can be made through the custom shop.

              Not for sure though. Just a wild guess.



  7. I’ve always liked the look and convenience of these so
    I’m really tickled to see this report.
    My biggest concern is the temp sensitive nature of CO2.
    So here’s a Q for all you CO2 shooters:If I zero one of these
    rifles at 85*F how much will my POI change at 45*F all else being equal?
    I know that the FPS will have a big change I just have trouble
    wrapping my head around how much that affects POI.
    Big thanks to any and all who can/will answer 🙂


  8. Wow! I had a lot of responses to my short list yesterday.

    Pete,
    No problem, I understood you. From all I have seen and heard, the TX is the top. If I had a thick wallet and more time to play, I might consider a 34 in there. I have tried to buy one before, but could not reach a deal that satisfied us both and then I bought that 1906 BSA. That was over a year ago. Since then I have shot my Edge and my Izzy once. Not much sense in buying up a bunch of toys I am not going to play with.

    RB,
    Do not under any circumstances buy one of the air rifles on my list! Once you try one of the top shelfers, nothing will satisfy. I have owned a FWB601 and I am rebuilding two FWB300s. My plinking pistol is an Izzy 46M. I can tell you from my own experience that you will not be satisfied with less. I will likely buy others when the price is right, but it will be with the intention of selling them.

    Matt61,
    A while back I bought several tins of RWS R10 Match rifle and pistol pellets from Neal at ISS. He asked me what I was going to use them for and I told him plinking. He said there were much cheaper pellets that I could use for plinking and I told him I was very serious about my plinking. At the time my plinking rifle was a FWB601 and my plinking pistol was a 46M.

    Buldawg,
    From what I understand they are nice, but unfortunately for me are too collectable and command much more than I am willing to pay for one. Then again, some would think I am a bit over the top about my BSA. I could part with the rest of my “collection” as long as I could hang on to it.


  9. I have a few of these, plus have one on the way (the wait is killing me). This is the best deal in town! Even if you are going to keep modding it beyond what the cusom shop offers, it is a very cost-friendly starting point. I have too much to say about this, and not enough time right now to type it on my phone, so I’ll have to get in front of an actual keyboard after work. Thank you for doing this, Hiveseeker! I am looking forward to the next installment!


    • You already said you have one of the 2240’s with the hi-pac conversion.

      Is that what your going to do with the gun you ordered from the custom shop? What options did you get with yours?


      • I have a hipac 2240 with a multishot breech/shrouded barrel from bnm, as well as a custom shop 2400kt with a 24″ barrel and a hipac. Both of those are .22cal carbines. I just ordered a 2400kt with the Walther Lothar barrel and zebra wood grips…also to be the recipient of a hipac kit. I’m hoping to tune the pistol close to 12 fpe for field target competition.



          • It works incredible! I haven’t noticed any accuracy deficits compared to my standard steel breech 2400kt. I have 3 10 round mags, and get exactly 30 20fpe shots/fill. The shroud really quiets it down too. I have a 2300s power adjuster, stiffer hammer spring, alliance hobby power valve, and an 18″barrel.


        • DS
          So you have ordered more hipacs. did you get the fine thread or coarse thread versions on the newer ones you got. Do they still look like bananas when screwed together.

          Are you still only filling to 2000 psi or have you tried 3000 psi yet. I am still getting mine i to reliable form for 3000 psi fills , I have had 1/8 pipe threaded bungs welded on to the front tube to replace the built in foster because the seat inside the tube was machined so rough that at 3000 psi it would cut the foster pin valve o-ring in half after a couple fills.

          I am curious if you have the same issues that you told me about before with your newer kits.

          buldawg


          • BD, I haven’t ordered any hipacs since we were talking about it. I’m still filling to only 2000psi with stock crosman face seals. So far so good! The banana effect on the coarse threaded one is only noticeable if you look for it. The guy updated his website, so hopefully he did some appropriate quality control updates on his product too. I am going to order a kit tomorrow for my pistol that I’m waiting for, so I will not be using any extensions. We’ll just have to see what he sends me…


            • Anonymous
              Let me know if you get the fine or coarse thread versions and how well the two halves thread together and if there is a noticeable gap between the joint of the parts.

              I don’t think his upgrading of his site was for better quality control because it was upgraded when I ordered my 2 kits and what I got was very poorly designed and made. I have just got all the issues fixed so they will hold air reliably for more than 3 to 4 fills at over 2500 psi, I only go to 27 or 2800 psi but I first had the o-ring squeeze out between one of the joint in the tubes. Then after I fixed that by removing about half of the thread inside of the female ends of the tubes so the o-ring had a flat surface to seal on. The sealing seat inside the front tube for the foster check valve pin and o-ring to seal against had been machined so rough that it would cut the o-ring in two after 3 to 4 fills and would leak all the air out the foster.

              So I have got two 1/8 pipe thread half bungs and welded them on the front of the tube after cutting the foster fitting off so I can use a paintball style foster fitting that threads into the pipe bung and will not cut the o-ring .

              I am telling you this so you know what to look for if any leak issue do occur. I will not buy from him again because I asked him when I first had the leaks at the tube joints to replace my parts with the fine thread versions as they seem to be better made and he stated that I did not have the right to request what version I wanted to pay for, so if I am giving him my money and I cannot request what I get for my money then he will not get any more of it.

              So beware of what you get because he does not care if you are happy once he has your money.

              Buldawg


    • I have several Custom Shop pistols I received mine in about four weeks because I
      ordered laser printing.The Custom Shop is a better buy than the store because
      some of the Custom shop guns like the 2300 come with the trigger adjuster which costs
      $31.00 at on line sites,The bbl choice,stocks, and low cost of trigger shoes, muzzle brake are at
      least 40% cheaper than on line sources.
      The 24 K’s are a great choice, and yes the pkg. should be more secure.The 24″ bbl. is a
      little too much, the 18″ or 14″ are much better.If you add the power hammer spring, and 40% larger
      valve washer which is under bbl. you can get over 600+ fps they are only available on line.
      I also added a valve system inside tube and I have gotten almost 700 fps a total cost of
      about- ($24.00 hammer/valve combo,$56.00 internal valve plus cost of gun puts it in the $200+
      range.But it is worth it. “PS 700 fps out of the 18″ or more barrels”
      I wonder if compressed air cartridges were ever tried,I think one would get higher velocities
      but the internal parts would have to be beefed up,but of course compared to co2 the danger
      could be increased with air.


  10. Crosman quietly markets two products that may be of interest. Morning Play Pack (1377) and Afternoon Play pack (1322). The fun packs come with a stock, steel breech, and the pistol. The steel breech is included but not installed so it gave me an excuse to get familiar with the inner workings right away. Knowing little or nothing about the 1377, I decided to go this way and let the pro shop at Crosman worry about the details. Worked great!

    I am very satisfied with my 1377 Play Pack mod and it is a marvelous shooter. The easiest way to find out more is to Google “Crosman Morning Play Pack” and use the addy that appears.



    • DS,
      That would cut down on having to search elsewhere and spending the money with outside suppliers on questionable quality and service. Mac-1,Bryan & associates, Hipac and of course Archer have all been in business for a long time and offer parts for the modding of these guns as well as others but it would be nice to have PA as another option.Oo




      • B.B., I see your point. Also, they probably don’t want to encourage the layperson to start tinkering with their products, for fear of various liabilities. However, they do offer the steel breech on their website, so why not grips, camo stocks, barrels, etc?



        • GF1,

          The Crosman Corporation would still be selling product, though at wholesale prices rather than retail. But the Custom Shop wouldn’t get the orders. So — no more Custom Shop.

          Also, do you see how confusing the Custom Shop ordering process is? Right now people have to call or write to get clarification. If Pyramyd Air started selling the same parts they would have to clear up all the confusion, and that would make the Crosman phones ring a lot less.

          B.B.


          • BB
            Ah yes the confusion part. Crosman does have a funny way of doing things. But if there is a company like PA that took on the task they would be the ones to do it. You did just hear what you said didn’t you. 🙂

            And on the serious side. I just wish that it would be simpler to be in business then have to deal with the red tape thing. It seems to always make it harder than it really is.

            But yes I do understand what you mean and I am glad that the custom shop is there with out a doubt.


  11. Hive, Thank You so much for doing this report. Looking forward to the rest of it. A warning to those ordering the carbine. If you are like me and like open sights, I don’t think I’d get the Williams notch or the LPA open rear site. They will be just like my Crosman 2260. Way to close to your eye to be of any use. That only leave the Williams Peep site for your open site choice (which isn’t a bad thing). On the pistol, it’s not a problem as you’d be holding it far enough away from your eye to be of use. Thanks, Bradly


    • Even though I didn’t order open sights on mine, I believe Bradly is correct–they are for shooting offhand with the pistol grips, and not the carbine stock. I believe the same goes for the lone pistol scope offered by the Custom Shop as well–eye relief is too long for shooting with the stock. You will want a rifle scope with the custom stock instead.




          • I’m a low tech but reliable type a guy so it was hard to not go with the peep but I tried in vane to use the one on my 1377 in pistol mode way back in ’90. I wish I’d known about the stock then!


            • Reb
              You made me think of something or I should say a picture popped up in the old brain.
              Its been a while back but I’m pretty sure I saw the 1399 stock for sale at Walmart in a red and white box with a picture of the black 1399 stock on the box. It had to be a while back because pretty much everything is in that plastic sealed package now days.

              I could be wrong but pretty sure I saw the boxes there. ???


  12. This was a great post and very interesting for a beginning air gunner. As the weather already is cooling down here in Idaho, getting frustrated in knowing when and how to shoot my co2 pistols. As of now, do not have a chrony so spend a lot of time shooting off target as evidently temp is too low for accuracy. Has anyone come up with a penetration test for air pistols ? I shoot a old paper back book point blank and if the pellet doesn’t penetrate at least 100 pages I know I have problems. This is vague because wad cutters don’t penetrate as deep as pointed hunting pellets but it is at least a start.


    • k7uqshooter,

      Welcome to the blog!

      It would seem that YOU have created the very test you are asking for. Duct seal would be more accurate, but any change inn temperature would change the depth of penetration.

      And think about using domed pellets instead of pointed. They are more accurate in most guns and don’t lose much penetration to the pointed pellets.

      B.B.


      • Thank you BB . I will get some domed pellets and set up some parameters with them. Also use the same test with the bb guns and pistols. Using the paper back book is a very quick reference. What page did the paper stop tearing . In the six months I have been shooting, still have not figured out why my non blow back Makarov BB pistol will shoot tighter groups then other guns with longer barrels. This is a amazing hobby. Thank you for all your posts and reviews.


  13. Nice blog HiveSeeker.
    I wanted to ask this yesterday. I signed up to be notified when the FWB Sporter was in stock and PA did emailed me that its in stock so I looked to see the cost and noticed only 3 in stock. Im sure people preordered theirs so many were spoken of but the other 3 sold fast. If anyone is lucky enough to have one and read this blog please chime in and let us know how they like it. I have a hunch that not every FWB buzzes when shot . And i think 8.4gr pellets are ideal for that powerplant..


  14. Nicely done. HiveSeeker is an ace guest-blogger. So, what’s this about your wife’s feisty performance at the shooting range? Tell us! 🙂 I’ve seen many unusual things at shooting ranges, but I haven’t yet seen a feisty wife. 🙂

    Matt61


  15. You know, for around $80 those could be pcp airguns. Just throw is hi pac in them and you are good to go. It’s far cheaper than going out and buying another pcp unless you are like me always tearing a gun apart and making it better.


    • Jojhn
      Beware of the hipac if you plan to go up to 3000 psi with them as I have two of them with 2 extensions and have yet had them hold up to 3000 psi for more than 4 fills before a leak develops at one or more of the o-ring sealed joints or at the foster pin o-ring. They seem to work well at 2000 psi but not at 3k. I have the coarse thread versions and I may have got a bad batch, but tried to explain the issue to the seller and he was very obnoxious and arrogant about the problems I was having and all but called me a liar and would not replace my coarse thread versions for the fine thread versions that don’t seem to have the issues of the coarse thread ones. He said that I did not have the right to request what version I was paying for SO buyer beware.

      Buldawg


      • B.B. got a leak on his 2240 when he filled to 2500 psi, though I don’t know the cause. I’m not planning any mods for my 2400s, and will mention that the .22 in particular does well straight out of the box.


        • Hiveseeker
          First you have written another very good review on the 2400 customs and for the price if you are planning on getting a 2240 pistol and adding the mods you ordered from the custom shop. The custom shop deal is the best route for sure.

          I bought the 2240 because I already had a 2289 with the steel breach and 18 inch 22 cal barrel so I just swapped it to the 2240 and it did shoot very good on CO2 as you have stated in your review, but I am a power nut so after BBs review of the 2240 hipac conversions I had to have the HPA setup.
          I was unlucky that I was not aware he made two versions of the hipac kit with one having fine threads where the sections thread together and one with coarse threads. The fine threads from what GF1 and other that got the fine thread versions have said fit together better than the coarse thread versions and what I received was the coarse thread ones; I have had nothing but problems with mine and the seller will not make any attempt to satisfy his customers when there is a issue. I have fixed mine on my own, but if I had it to do over again I would not have bought from him and only can say that the buyer beware.

          When I get my fun money built back up I am going to talk to Air Gun labs about making me a one piece tube that will take the place of the extension sections and use the disco fill fitting at the front like on their disco double kits and then would thread onto the hipac part that threads into the 2240 tube or make a complete tube all together to replace the complete hipac system.

          Buldawg


      • So far I haven’t had any issues with mine. It’s worked well and holds air as I expected it to. Of course I only fill to 2500psi for safety since I don’t fully trust the thing. Last thing I want is for the insides of the gun to shoot out the back of the gun or something. But if you want a pcp gun on the cheap these things seem to be the way to go.


        • John
          Is your hipac only the single piece one or do you have any extensions on it and are the thread on the parts that do not thread into the tube of the gun a fine thread or a coarse thread.

          I am just curious because I bought two kits from him that have 2 extensions for the 2240 gun and they are coarse thread where the sections screw together and I have had issues with them sealing at pressures over 2500 psi .

          If you don’t exceed 2500 you most likely won’t have ant issues, but I was just wondering if they were coarse thread or fine thread because the fine thread seem to be better designed and made.

          Buldawg


          • In all honesty I really do not know if they are coarse or fine thread. I have never opened it up. I simply put the hi pac in the gun with the upgraded seal and called it good. I didn’t want the extensions since my goal was to make the gun as short as I could. I still don’t quite have what I wanted because now my 2240 is a 2250. My goal is a 2240 pcp gun so I’ll need to try again. I’m thinking I need to get a custom high pressure rated pipe and machine it to be a 2240 length and use a disco valve and fill end. Number of shots isn’t what I’m after. I’m after a small light weight pcp pistol that fits in a standard holster that I can use to take out squirrels while deer hunting. They tend to tell the deer where I am.


            • John
              If you have access to machine equipment then that would be the best route, but if you do not then you need to check out Air gun labs because he is the one that makes the disco doubles and they can make you a tube like you want very reasonable and it would have the disco fill fitting and a disco valve also and you would only need to swap your existing parts to the new tube.

              That is what I am going to look at doing with my 3 2240 conversions down road.
              You only got the single hipac setup with out extensions so that is why you have not had the issues I have as mine has 2 extensions which is more areas to cause leaks. Still be ware that if you fill over 2500 by 100 or 200 psi it may cause the o-ring inside of the tube that act as the check valve in the foster to be cut. On mine the seat for that o-ring to seal against looks like it was cut with a dull end mill that was chattering very badly and therefore at anything over 2400 to 2500 psi it would cut the o-ring after 3 to 4 fills.

              Buldawg .


              • I’m currently retooling to mill out an 80% 1911 frame so after that I will have the equipment I need to mill out just about any small pieces I need. But I’ll check out airgun labs to see if they can set me up with a tube set up sized to a 2240. Who knows I might even make one a double tank at some point. But I still need to experiment a bit and get my fps up where I want it. Currently all I’m pulling is around 500 fps give or take.



                • John
                  So you are making a off the books 1911 huh, I just made me an AR a couple of month ago myself and it give you a very warm feeling to make one from mostly scratch and then put it together.

                  The disco tubes he does for the disco doubles are the same diameter as the 2240, 2250, 2300 and 2400 tubes are so it just a matter of what length you want and he states on his site that he does do custom length tubes on a per order basis and he gave an example of like a 18 inch tube with the disco fill fitting and foster for I think around 50 bucks or so, I don’t remember for sure but I thought it was very reasonable price for what you get.

                  if you are only getting 500FPS then howe many shoots do you get per fill. On my 2240 with 2 extensions at 2800 psi with a stronger hammer spring ( not the black spring that comes in the kit ) I can get 20 to 22 shots between 800 to 900 FPS and that is starting at 2800 and refilling at 1200 psi. The shots start out at 900 and slowly drop to 800 which is where I stop because I want to sight at those FPS range to keep a 1 inch POI at ranges between 20 to 40 yards and only have to hold over or under at 10 yards and past 40 to 55 yards. to get up in those ranges you will need a stronger spring than the stock hammer spring, but not near as strong as the black spring that come in the kit . I tried it and was unable to get the gun to cock with out the feeling that the bolt handle was going to break off in the bolt before it was cocked. n adjustable hammer rear cap is a big help also in tuning. you can use one from a 1701 silhouette or make your own or your lathe.

                  let me know what you do and if you get a tube from airgun lab as I thinking of talking to Lloyd about making me a one piece tube with the disco front fitting and the other end threaded so that it would screw on to the hipac part that threads into the 2240 tube or making the whole tube assy to replace the hipac all together.

                  Buldawg


                  • I make all my regular guns from 80%. I like my guns like Obama likes his voters….unregistered. What I own seriously, is none of the government’s business.

                    I haven’t really decided on what that smaller pcp 2240 is going to look like quite yet. Right now all mt thought power is going into figuring out how to get my bills paid in the first, how I’ll manage to have thanksgiving, and how I’m going to go about my next retooling phase. So this plan for my next build is way at the back of my mind in a mental filing cabinet marked “for a later date”. I’ll get to it, but I don’t know when. I got quite a few projects in front of it including this Hi Pac 2240 which I need to put the final touches on before I sell it. I’ll get it all tested before I sell it and if the opportunity presents itself I’ll share then.


                    • John
                      I agree 100% with on you that it is no ones business as to what guns I do or do not own. I only wish I had a machine shop here at my house so that I could make all my guns on my own, I am lucky that I have a friend with the equipment to do the things I need done, but would be much easier if it was here at home. That is one of my future goals when funds can be obtained for it to happen.

                      I to am having to prioritize my projects and holiday plans myself and for me anymore the holidays are for my grandkids not myself as I had lost my father many years ago during the holidays and they just have never had the same meaning to me since and honestly if I did not have grandkids then I would not even take part in the holidays as it has all gotten to be way to over commercialized to be even close to what the true meaning is of what we should be celebrating them for .

                      Please when and if you are willing to share with me your 2240 hipac results and design thoughts as you choose to as I would be interested. I am in the process of redesigning my 3 Hipac guns so that they will be reliable to fill to 3K and not leak every 3 or 4 fills when shooting them. I have the parts all repaired and just need to put the cosmetic finishes on them and reassemble to begin my own testing and tuning.

                      Buldawg


              • It looks like he already has the tube in his P-rod double kit that run $155 so it may be hard to get him to break-up his kits but maybe someone could talk him into whipping up a batch of Moly 2240 tubes with foster fitting endplugs & caps 😉 .


                • Reb
                  He states on his site that he makes custom length tube to order on a as ordered basis so it would be giving him the length you want and with or with out the disco front fill fitting and then if he can thread the other end to fit the hipac part that fits in the 2240s tube or if he can make a complete assy like the hipac only one piece instead of several extensions.

                  Buldawg



                    • Reb
                      I believe the disco tube as a complete unit would be able to be used to take the place of the 2240 tube itself, but I am not sure. It would most likely be easier and just about as cost effective to just by a disco itself as I have seen them for as low as 250.00 bucks on sale at times without the hand pump.

                      It is like you said it would be easier to just buy the Bentley instead. My only thing why I want the hipac 2240 setup is it is so much lighter than a disco is and it is more easily modded than a disco is. I think I have all my leak issues fixed so that mine will be 100% reliable now so I just have to get them put back together and see if my fixes work as I have hoped .

                      Buldawg

                      buldawg


                    • Reb
                      Like buldawg said you might as well buy the Disco.

                      The whole deal with the hi-pac is if you already have a 2240 running on Co2 that’s working nice then all you have to do is buy the hi-pac and you could run HPA. And really if you think about it. You could use the hi-pac to bulk fill Co2 if you wanted.

                      So that makes the hi-pac very versatile.


  16. No place to reply so I’ll put it here.
    That’s the reason I was so interested in the 2240 platform, was no pumping and manageability and thoughts have strayed considerably but it’s nice to know all options before making a final decision. So thanks for sharing your knowledge, opinion and time through my research! I’ve been seeing that Boss valve that I’m planning on getting since before I ever heard of Hipac.
    Who knows? It could turn out to be a lightweight Armada.

    Reb


    • Reb
      The boss valve is a good item from what I have read and heard although the hipac site states to not use them with their product, but I put no faith whatsoever in what he says or suggests as he has already proven to me that he has no clue as to what his product is made like or what a good design is so I take his recommendations as meaningless.

      The only draw back to a boss valve in the hipac would be excess air usage and lower shot count if not tuned properly. The boss valve has the potential to flow a much larger volume of air due to it increased internal volume which Is a good thing if using the correct hammer and valve springs, but can also become an air hog if not setup with the right springs. I cannot tell you what the right spring combo should be and that would be better answered by the maker of the boss valve, but it still would likely need some fine tuning to get it to shoot to your liking.

      I know on mine in 177 cal with 2 extensions at 2800 psi I was getting 20 to 25 shots between 900 to 800 fps with a total shot count above 750 fps of 32 to 34…I would like to tighten that curve up a little more as I was getting it there but then my foster o-ring leaks developed and testing was stopped. I am looking for 20 shots between 850 to 900 fps between fills and if I can get that tune then I will be satisfied with the hipac setup.

      Buldawg


  17. Hi BB,
    I recently got a problem with my Gamo PT-85. When shooting the gas does go out of the pistol but no pellets are removed from the chamber. I also notices as if the chamber doesn’t go into the slot all the way, but I can’t push it completely in. What could be the issue here?
    Billey


  18. Gunfun,
    That was the conclusion we came to.I was just wondering how far it could go and it looks like, if someone wanted to, they could basically turn it into a Mrod with the repeating breeches and shrouds being offered by more than one supplier. It’ll be a whole lot easier and funner than working on my 953! I’ll be happy just to get this SSA thing over with.

    Reb



      • 2400 KT!( That’s a load off!) I do my best to keep PA’s competitors’ products from being topic for my conversations here on their blog.
        Then try again with the 3120 I’ve actually dreamed of a cartridge pinned in place of the pump-handle with fill access through the pump-slot( just in case) but that’s just a dream right now.But what if you could remove the pump-lever and safely turn you multi-pump into Bulk-fill or HPA-Would you bite?



  19. 1377 and clones funstuff
    1. .install the zipties for the stockpad inside out-there is no sharp edge on the outside then
    2. there is this new stuff called velcro…..
    3. forearm grip extension for 1377 and clones to pump easier, makes the hold way more stable
    4. bolt handle extension for access when using scope
    5. reflex sights??
    6. open bore moderator for noise reduction, no bore means no use on other items
    7. trigr adjust for no creep, short overtravl, use longer straight trigr for lower presure
    8. spring adjust and air passage contour for faster discharge airflow
    9 hammercock handle extend (side or back)for longstock use.
    10 use a barellgrip scopemt that has doublescrews -prevents flexing around the single screw axis
    11. stack pellets with 8-12 oz trigrpul



    • I. Believe if you go through BNM you can order the barrel ,shroud and breech,for this reason I’ll be getting a 2240 for that conversion. Almost wish IdA done that before I got my 2400. My plan now is to get this one on buklfill or HPA and I’ll build me a repeater next year.



  20. Welcome to a rewarding hobby!

    If you haven’t gone HPA yet, you ARE in denial! Lol.

    It starts with a break barrel as a kid.

    Looking for a repeater you get a CO2 BB pistol. Lame, but FUN!

    In search for more punch, your ability to create is limited only by your budget.

    Which brings us here!

    It has been said many times, by ALL who have done it, SAVE up for a PCP that meets your needs.

    By the time you pay the shipping for three or four different parts suppliers you WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF BUYING A NEW PRODUCT, with a warranty!

    From where I stand the P-rod is a fantastic product that is beyond my wildest imagination as a lead slinging adolescent! And you CAN further customize it!

    Having said that, I have HiPac’d EVERY CO2 gun i own. With OUTSTANDING results, and I retain the ability to go back to 12g cartridges for casual plinking and a lighter package.

    Just a CAVEAT, if you custom build a piece that out-performs your expectations – DON’T tamper with it!

    You have a winner!

    Gentlemen,


  21. I have had recent success with a temp modulator system for the 2400kt carbine. Seems to eliminate any velocity variations in normal ambient temps with multiple shots ..increases accurate shots from 23 to 30. -Dime size groups (with scope) at 30 yds standing rest (22 cal). Totally self contained. Testing to include cold weather if I get any (80 now) Crosman had no interest.


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