Gen 2 .25-caliber Benjamin Marauder: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Benjamin Marauder air rifle Gen 2
Second-generation Benjamin Marauder in a synthetic stock.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

This report covers:

  • Farewell Marv Freund
  • Some updates and corrections
  • Shooting the gun
  • Stabilizing the bipod
  • First group is the best
  • Baracuda Hunter Extreme pellets
  • Diana domed pellets
  • Possible change in comments

Farewell Marv Freund

Before I start today’s report, I must sadly announce that Marv Freund passed away last Friday evening. Marv was in his mid-80s and, in the words of Dennis Quackenbush, has been an “old lion” of airgunning for as long as I’ve been involved. Anyone who attended the airgun shows at Roanoke probably saw and spoke to him.

Marv was retired from the National Bureau of Standards before it became the National Institute for Standards and Technology. He was well-known for fixing and rebuilding music boxes and other complicated mechanical things. Marv is the man from whom I purchased my Nelson Lewis combination gun, the cased FWB 124 and my Falke 90.

Few people know this, but Marv was directly descended from the Freund brothers. The Freunds invented a more positive means of chambering and extracting the cartridge case in a Sharps single-shot rifle, making it far more reliable than it came from the factory. Their Wyoming Armory was a fixture of the Old West that moved around many times as the railroads were constructed.

Not everyone who knew Marv will get a call about his passing. Please pass along this info to other airgun forums and social networksHe’ll be missed by many airgun collectors.

Today, I’ll start shooting the .25-caliber Gen 2 Benjamin Marauder with the RAI modular stock and accessories mounted. First, though, I need to say a few words about the stock and the accessories.

Some updates and corrections

No. 1 — let’s talk about the weight of the assembled and accessorized rifle. Some of you found the extra weight that I reported to be excessive, although I don’t agree. When you shoot an accurate air rifle from a bench or a bipod, the more weight the better, as a rule. Weight helps with stability. But that aside, my rifle weighs more than it needs to because of the accessories I installed. The UTG deluxe mil-spec stock I mounted is a new one that has battery storage compartments, plus it has a fat cheekpiece. It weighs more than their standard 6-position mil-spec stock that Pyramyd Air carries. And the UTG Sniper pistol grip I mounted is heavier than a standard AR15 grip. Dave Rensing of RAI tells me that with both standard items mounted, his gun weighs just a half pound more than the Marauder with synthetic stock. That would still be under 8 lbs. before the scope and bipod are mounted.

No. 2 — the folding buttstock adapter I showed you is a UTG product that RAI modifies so you can adjust the rifle’s striker spring tension with the stock mounted. I believe I gave the impression in the last report that it was an RAI product (I thought it was), but Dave tells me he gets it from Leapers. Anyone with an AR-15 can have one. It comes without the access hole; but for an additional $5, RAI drills the hole. I think Marauder owners will want it that way.

No. 3 — Dave told me his RAI Universal Adjustable Adapter — the same idea as the RAI adapter I tested for you with Crosman pistols, but made to fit an AR buffer tube — can be installed in line with the folding butt adapter. That lets you position the buttstock higher or lower and with some cast-off or cast-on (the angle of the butt in relation to the rest of the rifle when viewed from above). I told him I originally installed both adapters, but they made the minimum pull length about 14-3/4 inches. That gave me no adjustability with the 6-position deluxe mil-spec stock, so I removed it. Dave told me the stock I used measures nearly an inch longer than the 6-position standard mil-spec stock Pyramyd Air carries, so that accounted for the difference in length.

As I told you, the 6-position stock I’ve mounted is a different one. It’s beefier and has 2 storage compartments for spare CR123 batteries. It’s new this year and carries Leapers product number RBUS1BMS.

gen 2 Benjamin Marauder Butt detail
When the butt swings to the side, you can access the striker spring adjustment.

Shooting the gun

I arrived at the range early, and there wasn’t a hint of breeze. That’s perfect for shooting an airgun at 50 yards. The rifle still has the UTG 2-16X44AO Accushot scope mounted, and it was sighted-in, so I was ready to go. This scope, by the way, is a revolutionary new wide-range variable from Leapers that just came out. Blog reader Kevin Lentz just bought one, so maybe he’ll comment on it for you. I like it a lot; and as you’ll see today, It does very well on this rifle.

gen 2 Benjamin Marauder on bipod
The Marauder as it’s now set up.

Stabilizing the bipod

I mentioned last time that shooting off a bipod is less stable that shooting off a bag rest. This time, I fixed that to a large extent by leaning forward into the butt of the gun. The bipod legs were pressed forward, and that stabilized the light rifle. Light? Absolutely. I call it light because a long-range target AR-15 I once tested (and now own the upper of) weighed 14 lbs. when I tested it. It was stable on its bipod. So, weight matters when shooting off a bench.

gen 2 Benjamin Marauder Tom with Marauder
I lean forward into the rifle, and that locks everything tight.

First group is the best

The .25-caliber Marauder magazine holds 8 pellets; and during the range session before this, I’d determined that the first 8 were more accurate than the second 8. I also noticed that a couple pellets had hit the target on an angle, as if they had tipped in flight. That’s never good! I disassembled the baffles after that session, but found no hard evidence of pellets hitting any baffle edges. So, I just reassembled them, hoping that I might have corrected any misalignment problems they had during the assembly. The plastic baffles have holes that measure 0.315 inches in diameter, which should be enough for good clearance.

I also determined on this previous trip that JSB Exact Kings are the best pellets in the rifle. So, that’s what I started with in this session.

I shot the first magazine into a group that measures 0.639 inches between centers. Not a bad start! The second group with the same pellet opened up to 1.48 inches. And, just to say I did it, I shot a third group on the same fill. It started out well, and I thought I was going to have to recant my position of the first group after the fill being the best; but after 4 shots, things came apart. The last 2 shots landed very low on the target. I had to hold the final shot 4 inches above the bull to get it to land 2 inches below, so 16 shots are, in fact, the absolute maximum on a fill the way the rifle is currently adjusted.

gen-2-Benjamin-Marauder-JSB-King-group1
Eight JSB Exact Kings went into 0.639 inches at 50 yards. This was on the first magazine after a fill.

 

gen-2-Benjamin-Marauder-JSB-King-group3

On the third magazine after a fill, I got 8 JSB Kings into this huge group by holding the scope up four inches for the final shot, which landed lowest. Without question, the rifle, as it’s now adjusted, is out of breath on this third magazine! No group size is given because this isn’t a real group, since I changed the aim point as I shot.

I shot these groups in a growing wind that was gusting 7 m.p.h. and more. By that time, I decided the test was almost over for this day. But I got what I came to learn. The Gen 2 Marauder in .25 caliber is very accurate. And the RAI modular stock and UTG accessories make it more stabile and comfortable to shoot.

Baracuda Hunter Extreme

The wind meant my time was limited. I shot a group of .25-caliber Baracuda Hunter Extreme hollowpoints. These went all over the place, with 8 ending up around 2 inches! Enough said!

Diana domes

Twenty years ago, the best pellets we had in .25 caliber were 20-grain domed pellets called Diana. RWS imported them and they were superior to everything else. In the Marauder on this day, I fired 2 pellets that landed about 5 inches apart. I removed the magazine from the rifle and emptied it manually. No sense wasting pellets or air.

Benjamin domes

These should be labeled .25-caliber Premiers, because the Benjamin domes that have no brand name are one of the 3 most accurate .25-caliber pellets on today’s market. In the Marauder, the first magazine of 8 went into 0.734 inches at 50 yards. The second mag followed suit with the JSBs landing 8 in 1.489 inches.

gen-2-Benjamin-Marauder-Benjamin-dome-group1
Eight Benjamin domes went into 0.734 inches at 50 yards. This was on the first magazine after a fill.

Now I need to learn what the rifle is doing, velocity-wise — over the first 16 shots. There have to be more than 8 shots on a fill, so it’s time for me to start adjusting the powerplant for greater stability.

Also, I don’t like the way the trigger is adjusted. Stage one seems way too long, which is probably due to changing the grip from the factory stock to the UTG Sniper grip. I can now feel the trigger-pull through stage two, rather than the crisp break I want. So, the trigger is also on the list to be adjusted.

Finally, those oblong pellet holes from the test before this are still bothering me. The pellets all seemed to land nose-first on this day, but I still reamed all the baffles out from 0.315 inches to 0.324 inches.

Lots more to come in this report.

Possible change in comments

We’re considering a change in how comments are made because we’re getting hundreds of spam comments a day. Edith has been doing some things that make it harder for spams to post, and they’ve been reduced by more than 50%. However, they’re now on the rise, again.

The first change we’re thinking of implementing is to make it mandatory to have a registration account and be logged in before you can make a comment. Of course, you can still read the blog without logging in.

The second change would require that a person’s first comment be approved before going live. That means the comment would be held for moderation until either Edith or I approve it. After that, comments would go live immediately. If you’ve never commented before, this will affect you. If you currently have an account and have already posted one comment under that account, this change won’t affect you.

We welcome legitimate interaction and hope these changes won’t chase away any airgunners. Feel free to comment and let me know if there’s anything in either of these changes that will cause you a hardship.

159 thoughts on “Gen 2 .25-caliber Benjamin Marauder: Part 4


    • Here here B.B! The first comment on the new thread is spam! So I’m all for the new actions to can the Spam right away. I’d also, if you can, place these spammers on a “these guys practice business in a manner that would preclude my doing business with them.” That way there is no liable, and we can peruse the list for people with poor ethics….


  1. BB,

    The comment above mine looks like spam, thereby demonstrating the need to make the adjustments mentioned in your article. They won’t cause hardship for serious readers, though I worry that you and Edith might find the filtration process onerous.



      • The accessories described minus the scope and bipod bring the cost close to $1,000. That’s a lot of wood for a Marauder considering what else you could buy in that range.

        Crossman sells the Armada stock on it’s own for $35. It fits the Marauder and achieves the same as this chassis in terms of AR compatibility. It makes more sense for an entry level unregulated gun.

        The Taipan Mutant sells for $1100. $1000 into a Marauder is money you’ll never get back imo.


  2. Now there are two spams above my earlier comment. The second one is designed to sneak past an algorithmic filter. Banning hyperlinks in the comments would be a good automation.



      • Steven,

        We don’t ban them. The original WordPress had a default that any comment that lists 10 or more links will be held for moderation. I changed that to a lower number because a tremendous number of spams were getting through. Links do not automatically make a comment held for moderation. What does it is the use of words and terms that have been used by spammers, and those are the ones that get held up if they have even one link. Many people have posted links to photobucket, the yellow forum and other sites without those comments being held for approval.

        Edith



          • Edith, if spammers are targeting your blog for spam, can you post a list of the spammers so your grateful readers can spread the news about these deviants so it it have an “anti spam” effect? I would never trust my dollar with someone that shady, and it may make them think twice about their tactics.





  3. Yeeks, sorry to hear about the spam woes. Scraping content blocks from the post and hiding spam inside them now, eh? Sad. And yet it must “work” often enough for them to keep doing it–not necessarily here, but in general.

    For what my opinion is worth, as a regular reader and occasional commenter, I’d say do what you need to do to keep the maintenance balance tolerable. The information here is more than worth it to me to manage a separate account, or work with moderation, etc.

    And thanks for keeping it up. I still stand amazed at how much you put into this blog; the posts themselves are rich with information; the commentary often goes even further and I have trouble keeping up just as a reader! 🙂


  4. Yes, please do what you need to reduce the load that spam puts on you. Registration is OK with me. The comments section is something I find very valuable – something that is a real rarity on the internet! – so anything you can do to keep it running without it becoming a 25 hour a day job to keep it spam free would be greatly appreciated. The few extra steps required by a registration process would be well worth it for me as a reader.


  5. I second all that was said above. The 2 spams above are the first 2 that I have seen in 8+ months.

    I did the log in thing awhile back. It’s easy a did work better overall. Still, just last evening, had one “vaporize” after posting successfully off and on all day.

    And yes, THANK YOU for all your work BB and Edith. I hope you can pull it under control without too much work.

    Chris

    P.S. Nice shooting at 50yds. there BB.



  6. No problem with the new commenting requirements; my only suggestion would be to try it without filtering for hyperlinks first, as blog readers frequently post (helpful) links. I think the login requirement will take care of that problem. If you do add a filter, automatically passing links to the PA site would save Edith a lot of moderating time. Carry on!

    (Also, having just bought a .22 Marauder and not having the bucks at the moment to swing the Armada, I’m watching your .25 blog with interest. I did consider the .25, but for my purposes the shots per fill were too low–that’s a lot of pumping if you don’t have a compressed air bottle!)


  7. as always I love your reviews. Having a marauder .25 I take especial interest in your reviews of the marauder in the .25.

    As for my experience with the .25 I have found that I get a solid, accurate, 16 shots without any drop in accuracy. I used to pump up my marauder. But, after finding a couple of scuba tanks (used), for a bargain price I am finding shooting much easier these days. FYI- I got the 80c.i. Scuba tanks for 15.00 a piece. ( although I did have to have them hydroed at 40.00 a piece. Still, I consider them a bargain.

    As for me I feel that the marauder (at its price point), is simply unbeatable in accuracy, and knockdown power. I love the (almost), infinite adjustability. Yes, the factory stock is heavy. But, it is also classic for us purist. I especially love the adjustable cheek rest.

    All in all, I have seldom met someone who regretted purchasing a marauder. And thanks to your reviews, those who do a little research can test drive one, before buying.



  8. Hi to all, haven’t been around for a bit. So sorry to read about the spam problem you are having. This blog is a great source of information and I generally only access it from one computer so registration would not be a burden for me.That’s just my view, others may feel differently, I would however hate to see links be banned as they generally are well intentioned.

    Kevin in CT




  9. Similarities.

    I was very fortunate this weekend to be able to shoot in calm conditions out to 50 yards.

    I spent the most time shooting my FX Ranchero (8 shot magazine) with the new UTG 2-16X44 AO Accushot scope mounted.

    I made comments on this blog about a week or so ago regarding my initial impressions. Here’s what I said for those that missed it;

    “I received the UTG 2-16X44 Accushot scope from Pyramyd Air last week. Had a chance to mount it on a pcp, get it sighted in and mark yardages. Probably spent an hour with the scope. I’m impressed. It requires a very specific eye relief for focus. I like this since it aids me with a consistent cheek weld. Leapers has etched a decent reticle in this scope. Not to fine and not fat like may of their previous scopes I’ve owned. I had sun behind me when I was shooting and the glare was noticeable but not overly annoying. The coatings are good for a scope at this price point. It does well in dark shade. I put a sidewheel on mine and would strongly suggest it since the side AO needs fine adjusting for focus. I REALLY like the range of 2x-16x and the sidewheel AO. Perfect for my pesting needs. Even on 16x this scope is clear out to the edges. Wish they would put a locking ring on the ocular but it’s not a deal breaker for me. After I adjusted it I just put some electrical tape on it.”

    After spending a bit more time shooting this weekend I can wholeheartedly endorse this scope. I have targets set from 20 yards all the way out to 100 yards. This new UTG scope snaps into focus using the sidewheel. I shot at 12X at 50 yards. Greatly enjoy the field of view. I easily saw the pellets landing on the targets from above.

    My Ranchero is a .22 and I was shooting 18.1 gr JSB’s.

    I have to wonder if many folks shoot out to 50 yards with a pellet gun because those that do would appreciate just how great those groups are that B.B. shot with his .25 cal Marauder. What a fine machine they are.

    kevin


  10. Normally, I don’t log in, but only because I am lazy and like to do simple math problems over and over. However, I do believe you would best require log in for posting. Others have done so for quite a while. Even after all of your experiences you have attempted to be the most open and accommodating for your readers. Log me in, Scotty.


  11. I read this blog first thing in morn with coffee and love it, I seldom comment, but it’s ok to do what is needed with me. I have learned a great amount over the years


  12. BB and Edith
    As others have said to do what is required to reduce your already overburdened workload. I have always logged in as the math problems were always more of a burden than just logging in one time. I wish I had so much free time as I am sure you would to just to send out spam all day to fish for info or just make it more difficult on the rest of us decent folks that just want to converse about or airguns and learn all we can. Keep up the superb work.

    BB
    I am very interested in the velocity report as the 25 Mrod I got from GF1 I had turned it up to max power and got good results with a 10.pound hammer spring with spring preload at 7 turns in, hammer stroke at zero turns and air screw at 5 turns out with a 3000 psi fill and 2000 psi end fill shooting the H&N barracudas at 31,02 grains and the Benjamin’s at 27.8gr.
    H&Ns = 16 shot at the following numbers
    Low= 800.8
    High = 832.5
    Avg = 820.5
    ES = 31.78
    SD = 10.29
    FPE = 47.75

    The Benjis gave these results of 18 shots with the same 3000 psi start fill and 2000 psi end fill
    Low = 800.4
    High = 863.1
    Avg = 839.2
    ES = 62.68
    SD = 18.65
    FPE = 46.00

    I am in the process of modding the valve and transfer port along with barrel port to get even better power out of it and have some preliminary number before my light valve spring proved to be to light and it dumped all the air at shot number 14 but here is what I have so far with the H&N barracudas at 3100 psi fill with 12,5 # hammer spring, 3 o ring bstally mod, 4 turns in on hammer spring, 4 turns in on hammer stroke, 3/16′ porting out of valve all the way to barrel port. total shot count till valve spring dumped all air was 13
    low = 854.7
    high = 879.2
    Avg = 871.5
    ES = 24,52
    SD = 6.48
    FPE = 52.33

    I have since reinstalled the stock 25 valve spring and getting ready to repeat the chrony testing but what I am after is low 900 fps with the barracudas and minimum of 60 FPE and then hope it is still accurate at that power level so I will no more later today and then it out to our clubs sight in range to see if it can make that power and still be accurate as well.

    BD


    • Buldawg
      You know a lower fill pressure will allow you to hit the valve and it will usually allow more air to flow.

      Just for the heck of it try shooting from 2500 psi down to like 1500 psi with the tune you have on it now.

      Let me know if you give it a try.


      • Gunfun1
        I will do that and see if it makes a difference but would that not cause a drop in the power I am trying to achieve once the pressure falls below 2000 psi as all the forum post I have been reading say that minimum bottom fill pressure should be kept above 1900 psi for maximum power.

        So would it not be better with the 3000 psi fill and just increase hammer spring tension or stroke to open valve more to flow more air as with the 177 valve spring in it I was only 30 FPS away from my goal of 900 fps with the 31 barracudas so I would think lowering the pressure would drop the fps and lower shot count greatly. I am not maxed out on hammer spring tension or stroke and I realize the o ting limits hammer travel as well as usable stroke but increasing the spring preload would hit the valve harder and increasing stroke to the point it is equal to the o ring thickness would yield max valve opening but also would waste air so I am just trying to find that happy spot of max flow without wasting any air for the highest shot count at max power and to me lowering the air pressure would be counter intuitive.

        BD



        • Buldawg
          Reb just said exactly what it will do.

          Just because you have a high fill pressure doesn’t mean you will make more power. Some times it works out the opposite depending on how you have the striker travel and striker spring pressure adjusted.



          • Gunfun1
            All under stood and I will try it to see if it helps but I do believe at 1500 psi that is not enough pressure to propel the 31 grain barracudas at 900 fps but then that is what testing id all about.

            I do realize that the air pressure in the tube act like and assists the valve spring in closing the valve poppet so it is as you say getting it all balanced to work in unison.

            The pics I sent you of the parts I modified Saturday and you stated you did not understand what I had done. After I explained to you the mods were you able to see the modifications I had done to increase air flow and reduce restriction in turbulence and improve the efficiency that I was trying to accomplish as you never said so one way or the other.

            BD


            • Buldawg
              It wasn’t that I didn’t understand. It was that I couldn’t see what you done.

              And just let me know the results you get with the lower fill pressure. I’m curious to see what it does compared to the info you posted already.


              • Gunfun
                Yep will do but it will be after I get back from the docs at 2 pm but you will have some info later tonight as I am going to be shooting and tuning most of the afternoon after the docs.

                I am just not sure as to what spring and stroke setting to start with at 2500 psi but shooting at the 5 turns in on hammer spring and 4 turns in on the stroke I can see what the numbers show when the gauge gets to 2500 psi but the new gauge I got from crosman is not accurate either its just not 500 plus psi high like the original one was but it is off by 200 psi so I have ordered another gauge that goes to 5000 psi and is supposed to be accurate to plus or minus 2% so we will see.

                BD


                • Buldawg
                  That’s exactly what I mean. Keep the settings the samas what you have with the numbers posted earlier.

                  Then fill to 2500 psi instead of 3000. That way we can see what changing only the fill pressure will do to the shooting results.

                  Don’t retune the gun yet for the lower fill pressure.


                  • Gunfun1
                    Ok I got it and just got home a few minutes ago and had to get some new meds that should get my body own metabolism back to where it was at in my 30 so in a few weeks I will feel like a young man again as the doc ran the same blood work on the wife and got her on GODS medicine and she is a new woman and I cannot keep up so I had him run the same test and get me on what my body needs to run as it should, my thyroid was not working at all and very low on vitamin D and testosterone and Iodine so once I get those levels back up and my thyroid working again I should be like a 30 year old again and I cannot wait.

                    BD


                    • Buldawg
                      Maybe I need to go to your doctor.

                      30 years old again!
                      🙂

                      Ok I’ll stop now. Yea post the results when you get a chance.


    • I would expect a bump in transfer port size to be the main factor contributing to more power per shot. But it will mean fewer shots at a certain fill pressure.


      • Reb
        The transfer port does make a difference in shot count and power.

        Again it’s all about getting all the adjustments balanced for the fill pressure you want to shoot at.


      • Reb
        I understand all you said above and I have opened up the intake throat in the valve from 1/4″ to just over 3/8″ and opened the exhaust port from 5/32″ to 3/16″ all the way to the barrel port so the complete exhaust side is 3/16″, I also turned down the valve poppet stem form .125″ to .080″ in the area that is uncovered in the exhaust port when the valve is opened by the hammer so the airflow path from reservoir to pellet has been completely enlarged to flow air as smoothly and efficiently as possible with the least amount of turbulence.

        I had first installed the 177 valves spring to see if I could gain the airflow I wanted with minimal hammer force to increase shot count but the hammer spring proved to be capable of over powering the valve once the reservoir pressure got around 2500 psi so I put the 25s valve spring back in and that is where I am at now and just need to start my tuning for the 900 fps I want out of the gun.

        My whole point and exercise in these mod and tuning is to prove to a fellow FT shooter that made a statement that a Mrod is not capable of hitting our 100 yard spinner repeatedly like his 2500 dollar custom made 25 cal Rapid HM 1000x is and I aim to prove him wrong. I am fully aware that my Mrod will not be able to hit it for 40 plus shots like his Rapid does since it has a 500cc regulated bottle and he is shooting JSB 25 grain pellets at 930 fps so my plan is to not only show him that a 25 cal Mrod can indeed hit it but can do so with a 5 grain heavier pellet as well since I know it can be done and still have far less than 2500 dollars in the gun.

        BD



          • Reb
            The valve stem is a hardened shaft and all I did was copy one that is already for sale machined like that and the part that rides in the valve block hole is untouched so it should not affect the strength of the stem or cause it to bend as the force is in a straight direction and will have no more side loads than if stock so I do not believe it will be an issue but the .045″ of gain in flow around the stem should make a good difference in the power and air flow .

            BD


          • Reb
            Agreed it is most definitely a possible issue as anything can happen when modding for extreme power so I just hope it will hold up as we will see later today.

            BD


      • Reb
        I also installed a gauge port block with a enlarged hole from the stock one as stock it is 7/16′ hole thru the block and now mine is 3/4′ except right at the gauge thread section but there it is till 5/8″ opening so it will allow for more available air to the valve and also used a Gen 1 valve that has the removable insert around the valve poppet to unshroud the poppet even more and increase flow past it when it opens so instead of the poppet sitting in a hole that is only 1/16″ bigger than its OD it id now in a hole that is 3/16′ bigger than its OD so there is much more air right there just waiting to be let past when shot.

        BD



          • Reb
            I have been scouring forums and any and all info sources to compile just what mods I wanted to do to my 25 to make it as powerful as possible and still retain it excellent accuracy so it may be that I have to turn it down some to keep its accuracy but as I said my main goal is to show that a Mrod can indeed be very accurate out to 100 yards and keep groups of 1 inch or less as that spinner at our FT club is a 1 inch high by 1 1/2 long dragon and I plan to spin it many times.

            BD



  13. BB,

    I’ve been an avid reader of the blog for the past 2 years or so but this is my first ever comment, followed by a question.

    After my wife’s uncle gave me a shooting lesson (started with a biathalon rifle, several different caliber revolvers, and finished with a 1911) I’ve been hooked on shooting. I decided it wasn’t practical for me to shoot firearms so my research about air rifles introduced me to your blog. Thanks to all the informative content from you and your readers I felt confident about purchasing an Air Venturi Bronco (so sad that they’ve been discontinued), and set up a safe range in my home (silent trap and a good backstop).

    Really need to say it again, “thanks for teaching me how to be safe and enjoy air guns!”

    Your “First Class on a Budget” article from Shotgun News (2013) made me think about acquiring an FWB 300S (I read it on your website “thegodfatherofairguns”). I’ve had mine for about two months now. All I can say is, “wow!” The build quality on these is fantastic: incredible trigger, no felt recoil, and a pleasing quiet “thunk” to finish the shot cycle.

    Last weekend, the quiet “thunk” was replaced by a loud, metallic, slightly ringing, ‘ping’ that really ruins the shooting experience. I stopped shooting because I was afraid that the piston was ‘bottoming out’ or that some other horrific damage was being done to cause this noise. I’ve already ordered a new breech seal, spring, and ‘piston bumper’ from Jim Maccari, and will carefully disassemble and replace the old with the new.

    Here’s my question: Do you have any idea what might have changed to cause this? literally from one shot to another and do you have any advice other than a good cleaning, and new seal/bumper?

    Thanks in advance,
    James T.



  14. B.B.
    This past weekend I shot a custom Les Baer AR 15 .223. 2″ groups at 100 yards, 8″ groups at 200 yards(vertical string). After carrying it through the woods to get to our range, boy is that a load. An 8-10 lbs assault rife makes no sense. Sure was fun shooting though…..
    -Y


    • Thanks for your interesting range report. The Les Baer ARs are supposed to be top of the line. I’ve heard very grand claims for accuracy that are way below MOA. What you are describing is nothing like that. The AR is a highly elusive weapon. No doubt that it can be very accurate but it’s not clear under exactly what circumstances. I think that B.B.’s AR has recorded some of his finest groups ever with single loading of 77 grain match bullets. But with regular ammo fired semiauto, the grouping is unimpressive.

      Also, I’m learning a lot reading about carbine techniques from a Delta Force veteran that are based on the AR design. The author himself is very clear that he is a big fan of the platform, however, his recommendations make me wonder. He writes that after loading the AR magazine, you need to give a big yank downward to ensure that it is seated correctly. Otherwise, you are likely to have the magazine fall out and hit the ground. After rocking the magazine into my Saiga and feeling it snap, and I don’t have the slightest concern about it falling out.

      You’re right that ARs are fun to shoot though. I blew through 100 rounds with an M4 not long ago, and it was astoundingly accurate offhand even with open sights.

      Matt61


      • I have been running AR’s since I got my first Colt SP-1 Rifle in 1975. I never had a problem with getting magazines to seat. My most accurate AR is a DPMS Sportical. It’s supposed to be a “Entry Level” AR. It is about as simple as you can make one. It does not have a forward assist or a ejection port cover. However, the side walls of the upper are thick. Since there are no cuts or holes in it other than the open ejection port, it is stiff. With hand loaded ammo, it will shoot 1″ five shot groups at 100yds. Those are fired semi-auto from the mag. The bullets were Sierra 52 grain match and Hornady 70 Sp’s. I was very surprised that the 70’s shot that well with only a 1 in 9 twist. Powder was Win. 748. I know the gun will do it. But, the shooter doesn’t always get there!

        Mike


        • Wow, you do have a history with the AR. 1975 was before the revolution with the A2 model. I’ve heard good things about DPMS rifles. What surprised me is the problems with the Les Baer model which has such a good reputation, but your decades of history does outweigh a single instance I will admit. I know what you mean about the shooter’s role. You may recall that I was having trouble with my Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk I jamming. When I spoke to the gunsmith who I received it from, he said in a rich Southern accent: “It could be operator error. No offense.” Ha ha. That theory is good most of the time although not in this particular case as it turned out.

          The credentials of my Delta Force operator seem convincing, and he knows a lot, but he has some strange ideas. Besides the magazine seating idea, he claims that you should NOT press check your weapon to see if it is loaded. Notwithstanding this is a widely used method, he says that it can introduce dirt into your action. The better way, he says, is to drop the mag and feel if the top bullet is on the right which it should be if your magazine is fully loaded. Other than being useful at night, maybe, when you can’t see, this makes no sense to me. We’ll see what else he turns up.

          Matt61


          • I think he is probably right. But I think there is a greater chance of the rifle not going back into battery than getting dirt in it. He does have a background on the sharp end so what worked for him is worth listening to. It is a different world when you have to deal with older, worn, much used, and dirty weapons and the bullets are flying. These things happen in combat.

            Mike


      • I was very proud of my 2″ group! 10-15 mph wind, first time shooting a BIG gun(one where you need hearing protection). My buddy shot 1″ groups with his Les Baer. I’m sure the gun can to better when it has a better shooter…..



      • I was surprised to learn that the original assault rifle, the STG-44 was not a light rifle. It weighed as much as an M1 Garand. Whatever compromises it introduced did not include weight. The ideal, as I heard described, was to be able to cut a horse in half at 400 yards which requires a gun with a lot of firepower although not necessarily accuracy. The AK is not a light gun either. The light weight seems to have been introduced with the AR design although the popular M1 carbine was already looking in that direction.

        I do wonder if gun weight is an instance of the superior toughness of earlier times. It is a fact that the physical fitness of army recruits has dropped precipitously since the 70s when people became more sedentary. On the other hand, modern troops apparently carry a lot more gear than earlier times. No more light marching order of General Sherman’s Army on its March to the Sea. Soldiers are carrying much more weight so the contribution of the gun has to drop. Also close-quarters battle, consistent with the steady urbanization of the world seems to favor lighter, quicker handling weapons. So, there are reasons for these various developments.

        Matt61


  15. Given how much work that Tom and Edith do on the blog including reading every single post, I say that any modification to decrease the workload is fine by me, not to mention a case of self-interest to make sure our favorite bloggers do not get burned out.

    Never heard of the airgun expert that passed away, but I know the type. It seems to me that our retirement system turns a whole generation of people out to pasture who, if they are not up for working full-time, still have a ton of wealth and experience that is not utilized and respected the way it should be. With the collective aging of the population, this problem will only increase. It seems like the blog attracts quite a few of these individuals who supply its seemingly endless knowledge…

    For the accuracy of the Marauder, I think there might be some different standard for .25 caliber that I have forgotten, although I have an impression that it is generally lower than for the more common calibers. The groups posted, while respectable, wouldn’t catch the attention in .22 and .177.

    Matt61




  16. BB,

    Does the RAI stock also leave access for the transfer port adjusting screw? I think you mentioned earlier that it did. If not, you may want to modify it – I carved out the synthetic stock on my Mrod this weekend, so that I could play with tuning the velocity without dismounting the stock every time. Worked great, and now I can make some fast corrections in the field (with the right allen wrench) to re-tune my .177 for various pellet weights.



      • Enjoying blog on .25 Syn-rod. The thing I like about the .25 Syn-rod is that they are not pellet fussy at all. Mine shoots about anything you run through it. It’s favorite,however, is the Air Arms 25.4 g made by JSB (It is not a JSB Exact.).

        One comment on quietest Marauder. That would be a 1st gen .22 cal.


  17. My son was over this last weekend. We did a lot of air gun shooting off my back deck. He has a 90’s vintage Diana 34 in .177. We ran a number of pellets different through in just to see which one it shot the best groups. It turned out the rifle shot best with H & N Field Target Trophy, 8.46 gr., 4.51 heads. Close to one ragged hole @ 10 meters. We would drift one out of the group a bit from time to time. But, it shot very well! We also put a lot of pellets through the Walther LGM-2 10 meter rifle. It’s the first time he shot it. He could not believe how good the trigger is on it.

    It was a great Saturday!

    Mike


  18. Gunfun1
    All I can say is he did the same test on my wife a month ago and she would spend 20 hours of her day in bed and after he put her on the hormone therapy and other natural vitamins and supplements she has not stayed in bed for more than 8 hours a day and I am unable to keep up with her so I told him to do the same test on me so I could be able to chase her and actually catch her as that has not been possible since she started his GODS medicine so I am a believer.

    I will know if it works in a week or so for myself and have all the confidence that it will.

    Now for some chrony data on the 25 with all the mods you know I did and here is what I have so far.

    3000 psi fill, hammer spring = 5 turns, hammer stroke = 4 turns, 31 gr barracuda’s, 12.5 pound hammer spring, total 21 shots above 800 fps and 1700 psi end pressure.
    low = 802.6
    high = 842.7
    Avg = 826.1
    ES = 40.17
    SD = 11.87
    FPE = 48.93

    3000 psi fill, hammer spring= 5 turns, hammer stroke = 5 turns, 31 barracudas, 12,5 pound hammer spring, total shot above 786.3 fps = 25 and 1600 end psi.
    low = 786.3
    high = 839.2
    Avg = 817.3
    ES = 52.94
    SD = 17.17
    FPE = 48.52

    3000 psi fill pressure, hammer spring = 6 turns, hammer stroke = 4 turns, 31 barracudas, 12.5 pound hammer spring, total shots above 813.7 = 16, end pressure 1700 psi
    low = 813.7
    high = 854.8
    Avg = 841.8
    ES = 41.15
    SD = 12.12
    FPE = 50.34

    That’s all I could get done before dark and tomorrow will be at the same 3000 psi fill with hammer spring = 7 turns maxed out , hammer stroke = 4 turns, 12,5 spring, 31 barracudas. I will see if the FPS increase more before adding more stroke as it dropped fps at 5 turns but then may not have had enough hammer spring tension so the spring tension is maxed out and if it does not get higher with more stroke the one o ring will have to come out from ahead of the hammer or a 15 pound hammer spring installed.

    I can say for sure that the 27 grain benjamins would be over 900 fps right now and the JSB 25 grainers would be very close to 950 fps if not over so that Rapid was only shooting the JSBs at 930 fps so I know I have that matched in the trim it is now and most likely would get well over 20 plus shots at that velocity if not 32 shots peer fill.

    Once I get it maxed out for power as it is I will drop to 2500 psi and shoot down to 1500 as you have asked the only problem is the new gauge is not accurate either as when it showed the 1600 and 1700 psi end pressure with the gauge on my shoebox the gauge on the gun was at 2000 psi so it just a guess where 1500 is at and that’s why I have a more accurate gauge coming for it as crosmans gauges are worthless for accurate pressure readings.

    BD


  19. Buldawg
    Did you notice in your shot string if the higher velocity’s were at the beginning, middle or end fill pressure?

    That would tell you were your power curve is the strongest if your hunting for power out of the gun.

    If the higher velocity’s are at the end fill pressure then your gun setup is liking the lower fill pressure. You may not be able to get 16 high power shots per fill. That’s why I had Lloyd make me that double resivoir for my gen 1 Mrod in .25 caliber. It liked to be filled to 2300 psi down to 1700 psi. That’s why I needed to have the extra volume of air from the dual resivoirs. I was only getting about 8 shots per fill. Then I got about 17 shots per fill after the dual resivoir.

    The funny thing about my gen 1 gun no matter how I set it. And just to mention I had the antibounce o-ring mod done to it also with the 10# spring. The velocity would slow up if I increased fill pressure.

    So I’m interested in knowing where your peak velocity fell compared to your psi of the gun. That’s the other statistic your suppose to be keeping track of when your doing your chrony testing. Not just seeing what velocity your making.


    • Gunfun1
      The sweet spot in the first string was shot 13 and shots 9 to 17 in the sweet spot.

      The second string was 14 with the sweet spots from 11 to 20

      the third string was shot 12 with the sweet spot from 3 to 14

      So the higher the power the lower the shots start to peak in the pressure curve since I am hitting the valve much harder.

      Tomorrow will be maxed out on the spring tension and I am still at 4 turns on the stroke and believe I can go to 6 or 7 before the hammer striker bottoms on the valve without the hammer contacting the o rings as that is one thing I forgot to check was the maximum striker stroke before it bottoms without hammer hitting debounce o rings.

      So if it does not rain tomorrow I will have more info and I may have to get some JSB 25 grainers to tune with as well since that is what rob was shooting in his rapid but I just wanted to out do him with both accuracy and power if I can achieve it so still some more adjustment to go.

      BD



        • Gunfun1
          That would be only in the first and second shot strings where the spring tension and stroke were both set at 5/4 on the first and 5/5 on the second.
          Once I upped the spring tension in the third to 6 turns and left the stroke at 4 turns it was at the first 3 to 14 shoots so most likely tomorrow with the spring a 7 turns and the stroke at 4 still it will be at the very beginning of the string.

          BD


          • Buldawg
            Ok I seen that. So that means that your hitting the valve harder and keeping it open for a longer duration.

            The same thing will happen if you lower your fill pressure.

            Here’s something I would like to know when you chrony today. See how much air pressure you use per shot and let me know.


            • Gunfun1
              I can do that but it will just be an estimation as I will divide the number of shot into the maximum air pressure used .

              in the last string where I got 16 shots with a total of 1300 psi used would be 81.25 psi per shot and in the second string it would be 25 shots with total of 1400 psi used for a 56 psi per shot.

              So will see what it is at 7 turns of hammer spring tension which is max it will go before it is unthreaded from the end cap.

              BD


              • Buldawg
                Just watch your gauge each shot then you can see if it uses more air per shot at the beginning, middle or end of the fill.

                What your saying is just giving a average per shot. The way I’m saying will tell you where your using more air per shot. Then you will know what fill pressure gives the highest velocity by air usage also.


                • Gunfun1
                  The gauge is not that accurate and has no graduation marking other than 0, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000, 2250, 2500, 2750, and 3000.

                  there is no way to tell how much difference it is from start to finish and this gauge is not accurate anyway as when my liquid filled 2 1/2 inch gauge on the shoebox shows 3000 psi the gauge on the gun is showing approximately 3250 or 3300 psi so that’s why I have ordered a 5000 psi gauge that is graduated in 200 psi increments and is accurate to +/- 2 % or at 3000 psi would be +/- 60 psi so with it I could tell much closer as to how much air is being used and where.

                  I can say that watching the gauge on the gun now it moves very little for the first 5 to 10 shots and then starts dropping faster every shot over 10 shots so not sure what that means but I do know to get the power I want I have to hit the valve harder and possibly hold it open a little longer than it is now and increase fill pressure by 2 to 300 psi for the 16 shot I would like to get per fill.

                  BD



                    • Gunfun1
                      That would make sense as it take more time to expel the same volume of air as the pressure drops and provide the same push on the pellet.

                      I am eagerly waiting for the HUMA regulator company in Holland to get their 25 cal regulator built for the Mrod and the exporter here to get some in stock to sell as then I may just by the 550 cc bottle kit that wicked air rifles makes for the Mrod along with their WAR valve with the 25 regulator I could get 50 plus shots at high 900 fps out of the 25 and the 550 cc bottle kit come with it own aluminum modular stock like BB is testing her that accept the AR grip and butt stock so I could make my own Rapid killer and compete on shot count as well as power and accuracy.

                      Its just a matter of time as I prefer to build my own instead of buying one somebody else has made for me.

                      BD



                    • Gunfun1
                      No did not get to test today as I put the O2 sensor in the neighbors car and then the wife and I went out looking at a new car for her and found a 2012 Chevy equinox LT with 9800 miles that she likes and also found a ford escape as well.

                      Plus it rained off and on today and will likely be that way tommorw.

                      Our neighbor at the other corner is a retired saleman and has connections at both Chevy and Ford so we have been talking with him about getting u=s a deal on either the used Chevy or if he can get us in a new ford for what the Chevy would cost so we are going to try top get our car situation worked out so we are ready to travel when we want to.

                      I am going to try to get some more done tomorrow and will post results as soon as I have them.

                      BD


                  • Buldawg
                    Ok was wondering if you got somewhere with it today.

                    Hopefully the rain will stay away. We been dry for about a day and a half but suppose to get 3.5″ tomorrow again.


                    • Gunfun1
                      yea I was trying but between the rain and fixing cars and looking at new cars it just never worked out but I am going to try to get some more in tomorrow so I know if I can reach the 900 fps mark with the way it is now or if I need to remove o rings or put in a 15 pound spring to hit the valve even harder.

                      I am going to end up with a wicked air rifles WAR valve and bottle kit with the HUMA regulator so I can get 50 plus shot at 900 fps out of it and still be less than the cost of a custom Rapid.

                      BD


                    • Gunfun1
                      My new gauge will be here Friday so it will be in as soon as it is received and I will know much more accurately exactly what pressure it has in it and I also got a muzzle brake just for the cool factor as it is a 40 port spiral ports that is 2 inches long and replaces the shroud end cap.

                      The gauge is from wickedairrifles.com for 16.50 shipped in the US to your door so you may want to look into one for your new 25.

                      BD


                  • Buldawg
                    I’m going to base line it it of the box on the chrony.

                    Going to start at 3000 psi fill and right down air pressure best I can judge the gauge on the gun next to the fps I record for the shots all the way down to 1200 psi.

                    Then fill it back up to 3000 psi and shoot 5 shot groups down to the 1200 psi end pressure.

                    I want to see how many shots I can get at lower pressures without the poi dropping to drastically. And get a moderate shot count and fpe.

                    I’m not trying to set a power record. I just want to have the gun hit consistently out at the 90 yard and longer distances.

                    My whole idea this time around with this .25 Mrod I’m getting is to hand pump it. I don’t want all the extra support equipment. And I want a lower fill pressure so I don’t kill my self pumping to 3000 psi all the time with only 10 to 15 usable shots before pii changes.

                    This gun and hand pump will be going for rides with me on the 4 Wheeler. So kind of going after things a little different this time around with my new .25 Mrod. Oh yea this one is the wood stock gen2 model.


                    • Gunfun1
                      That sounds like a well thought out plan for hand pumping to get the most out of the least since hand pumping to 3000 psi will wear you down very quickly.
                      I understand why you are doing that approach to make it easier to fill and be able to shoot more than you pump.

                      I hope it will still make it out to 90 yards at the lower fill pressures and be accurate as well. being able to carry it on the four wheeler and hand pump when needed will be a good method for sure.

                      if I did not have all my other air guns to shoot and make decent power and be very accurate I would not be doing the mods to the 25 that I am as well but since I do have so many others to use for FT or plinking I am wanting to see just how much can be gotten out of a 25 Mrod with home brewed modifications and simple shop tools that most DYIers would have at their disposal. If I only get 6 shots at 900 plus fps I will be happy as I can always turn it down after I reach it max power and as it is right now I am certain it will shoot JSB 25 grainers at 930 fps for an easy 16 shots and that is plenty to show Rob that a Mrod can ring that 100 yard spinner at our FT range as I have already done so with my 177 Mrod even though it took over 20 shots to get the hold over right to lob that pellet out to 100 yards but it did do it.

                      You had told me you got the wood version this time and is that because its heavier than the Synrod or just preferred the looks better,

                      BD


                  • Buldawg
                    I’m pretty sure it will do good at a hundred yards and plus. The Mrod you got from me that your modding now was turned down when I had it and it was making it out at the longer distances very consistently.

                    The only problem is that I had it tuned for 3000 psi fills. It might be a little tricky to get the tune right for the lower psi fill pressure. But I had a couple Discovery’s in both calibers and they did fine on velocity and shot count. And remember them are only 2000 psi guns.

                    And I just figured I would get a wood stock this time. My gen1 .25 Mrod was a wood stock. And I like the adjustable comb on the gen 2 and its on the wood stock so I just decided to go wood this time. No real reason why. And the wood stock guns to me no matter what brand and type of wood they are a little nicer to look at.

                    But will see how it goes with tuning. Suppose to get it Friday. And you know all the things I got going on this weekend. So I hope to get some time on it. And I got one more concern and that’s dirt getting on the hand pump and runing it when I’m out on the 4 wheeler. I think I’m going to carry the hand pump in a soft gun case. But we’ll see how it goes.

                    And if you reply back I think you will have to reply at the bottom. I haven’t had a reply button for a long time from yours to reply to you.


  20. I’m glad you are enjoying your marauder. Mine in .22 is turning out to be quite a shotgun. It’s great if you want to hit, oh, say, over yonder that way somewhere, but forget trying to keep any reasonable groups. The best groups are about 3 inches at 50 yards. I tried pulling out the baffles and removed the shroud, made no difference. One type of jsb pellets shot groups (patterns?) larger than a sheet of paper.

    Too late to return it too, wish I’d had time to test it out faster after I got it.

    Btw, am I the only one too stupid to figure out how to actually register here?



      • Tom, I have checked the crown, at least as best as I can. I haven’t been able to pull the air stripper off (or whatever you would call it, the spacer at the end of the barrel that keeps the shroud aligned) and I don’t want to try to force it because I don’t want to damage the barrel. But I did stick a flashlight in there and it looks pretty good.

        I’m guessing your next question is whether or not I’ve cleaned it, and the answer is no, I haven’t. I don’t have a brush that will fit a .22 air rifle, the brush I have for .22 pb rifles doesn’t seem to fit into the barrels on my .22 air guns. I guess that’s my next step, and I’m also going to use a chronograph to make sure that it isn’t shooting a huge spread in terms of fps or something. I’m not sure if I can pick up a cleaning kit for airguns locally or not, I’d like to be able to get back to testing stuff this weekend.

        Any other suggestions for things to check while I’m at it? I’m not sure how to check the breech seal, guessing I could do that with a mirror or something though. I know there are things to do to check/work on this, just frustrating to buy something for this much money and then have to pour time into it to figure out what’s wrong with it. Hundred dollar break barrels, yes, 500+ dollar guns, not so much.


        • Tim
          The front barrel band has two set screw on the under side of the fill fitting on the air tube and if you just loosen those two set screws the band will slide off the air tube and you can put a rod thru two holes in the barrel air diffuser 180 degrees apart so you can get hold of the rod on either side of the diffuser and while rotating apply some force to pull it off the barrel as it will come off quite easy and you can see the crown very well and it just taps back in place when you are done.

          To clean the barrel or at least see just how much crud there is in it you can use some 10 or 15 pound test fishing line and tie a 1/2 inch loop in one end of the line and feed the unlooped end down thru the barrel from the breech end with the bolt pulled back and use an old white tee shirt or other soft white material cut in about an 1 1/2 inch square and with the fishing line sticking out the muzzle end of the barrel fold the cloth in half and place in the loop of fishing line centered in the loop and pull that thru the barrel and you will see if it is clean or dirty by what shows on the cloth. You can repeat this until the cloth come out clean as it went in and the barrel should be clean enough to not affect accuracy.

          To inspect breech seal while you have the bolt open you can use a mirror or just look at the rear opening of the barrel about 1/16 inch from the end and you should see the rubber seal and if it looks smooth with no cuts or rough areas it is most likely ok plus if it was bad you would feel air coming out from the breech area when shooting and can be checked by shooting without a pellet in the gun and lay a Kleenex over the breech and shoot and if the Kleenex moves at all the breech seal is leaking which generally would no affect accuracy much unless it is basically not there and the velocity was all over the place so chrony testing will confirm whether it is shooting well or erratic.

          Hope this helps eliminate some possible issues and good luck with the gun.

          BD


        • Tim,

          I’m not ruling out a bad barrel, either. I’m just trying to keep this as economical as possible. So we first have to know the barrel you have isn’t accurate.

          I’m afraid you are going to have to remove your barrel to check these things. Yes, a .22 caliber airgun barrel is smaller than a rimfire barrel, but a .22 bore brush will fit it. With the barrel out of the gun you will find it easier to clean.

          B.B.



    • Tim
      I have no facts to back up what I have read on numerous blogs and been told by friends but for whatever reason the 22 Mrod is just not an accurate gun and will not group like its smaller and bigger brothers.

      Like I said no fact or hard evidence other than what has been posted and stated by many more owners than just yourself and that’s not to say it cannot be fixed to shoot good but as bought from crosman it is just not up to snuff.

      BD



        • Reb
          Yea I was bummed out with all I have read about the 22s being very inaccurate but it not that they cannot be made accurate it you just should not have to fix a new gun to make it shoot accurate.

          BD


      • A colleague and I have been making regular trips to the dairy farm to shoot starlings. As the season wears on, and the birds get a little smarter, we have been taking shots at 50 yards. I hit (we only take head shots) about 30% with my .177 Marauder at that range, 16x mil-dot AO scope and all. My colleague, who took my advice and bought a .22 Marauder, hits more like 75% of his shots at 50 yards. Ok, he’s younger than me, but his .22 Mrod is plenty accurate, and shoots both the Benjamin/Crosman domes and JSB domes equally accurately.

        So, the .22 Marauder can be plenty accurate, but there also has been some history of bad barrels in that caliber.

        He did shoot it right away, and confirm it was accurate, and that is good advice that unfortunately for Tim is hard won. Had it not shot accurately, my advice to him would’ve been to immediately call Crosman – they have been pretty good about swapping barrels for people according to posts on the various fora.


        • Ben T
          I to wish Tim had found out it was having accuracy issues when he could have had crosman fix it for him and was not so discouraged since that just tends to turn people away from the sport.

          I have no experience with 22 Mrods myself, but do have a 177 and 25 cal Mrods and the 177 is a tackdriver as long as I do my part. It is my FT gun and it is tuned to shoot JSB 10.34s at 925 fps and I get 40 good shots before it starts to change POI and I am getting ready to install a regulator in it so I can get 60 shots with a ES of 3% or less for those 60 shots.

          My 25 I am modifying to be a power house and am trying to get 60 FPE out of it even if it is only 5 or 6 shots just to see if I can do it with home brewed mods performed by me at home and I have gotten to 53 fpe so far but still tuning and testing to get the final tune on it and my actual goal is to hit our FT sight in ranges 100 yard spinner several times on a fill to show one of our other members that said an Mrod could not do it since he has a custom made 2500 dollar Rapid 1000X 500 cc bottled regulated gun that shoots JSB 25 grainers at 930 fps for 60 shots. I know I will not get anywhere near 60 shots but I am trying to shot a H&N 31.02 grain pellet at 930 fps to show him a 25 Mrod can hit the 100 yard spinner but also do it with a 5 grain heavier pellet than his Rapid does it with.

          BD


  21. “The first change we’re thinking of implementing is to make it mandatory to have a registration account and be logged in before you can make a comment. Of course, you can still read the blog without logging in.”

    Maybe no-one will care (or maybe people will be happy since I don’t always agree with the majority), but if you do that, then I won’t be commenting anymore. I’m not going to bother making an account just to comment on a blog. Between work, e-mail, etc… I have too many accounts and passwords as it is.


    • J.,

      I can certainly sympathize with having too many accounts! I have a 12-page document in 12pt type with all my accounts, passwords, usernames, security questions and answers, etc. But, I think we’re going to go through with this new approach because dealing with the spams is eating up our time and taking away from other productive work. We have to work 7 days a week — days, evenings and nights — including holidays to stay on top of the spam.

      The spams are not made by people. They’re made by bots. This is the only way we can fight this automated process other than closing off the blog to all comments.

      Edith


      • Edith, have you considered giving power to some of the main posters who are trusted to send spam posts to the spam bucket for your review, I think this would ease your workload.

        Many times I see spam and wish I could just help out by pushing it off the site and let you sort it out later.

        Also it seems that the spammers always post with embedded links, could you have your IT folks send all embedded link posts to the spam filter? That might help a lot.


  22. Gunfun1
    I knew the 25 I got from you was Hitting past 100 yards but then as you say it was at 3000 psi fills so it will take some tuning to get it out that far at 2000 psi but I believe it can be done it will just be lobbing the pellet way out there instead of throwing it out there.

    I was more worried about the dirt getting in the hand pump when you are filling the gun as I was not sure if you are going to place it on the ground or where to do the pumping, but then it would be subject to dirt when moving on the four wheeler as well.

    I am not that familiar with the Hill pumps but do they have any kind of intake filter or some way you could adapt a K&N style filter to the intake side to keep the dirt out or something to that effect if even just a foam sock type filter would help more than nothing.

    I do like the wood look as well better than synthetics but to me the synthetic is more durable and forgiving of nicks and scuffs like you will be putting the wood 25 thru but if you get one of those gun cases that slide together and carry it in a rack it will do pretty well but I bet you still get some wear marks on the wood.

    BD


    • Buldawg
      The Hill pumps have a intake and air dryer type filter that you fill with those little round dryer bb’s. But the other problem is when you extend the pump handle you don’t want dirt particles blowing on that cylinder.

      So transporting it and keeping the dirt away won’t be to bad and the intake won’t be to bad. But it will be hard to keep the dirt away from the pump rod or cylinder I guess it’s called.

      And I think you would be surprised the velocity the .25 Mrod will make at a low psi fill once you get the spring and striker hammer adjusted as well as the transfer port screw.

      What I’m interested in seeing with the new one I’m getting is what velocity it is throwing the 31 grain Barracudas at from right out of the box.

      Then I will know if the low fill will be a easy task or if I got my work cut out for me.


      • Gunfun1
        If the pump has filters for the intake then the only real worry would be keeping the pump rods clean from dirt so it does not cut o rings and score the rod surfaces. Maybe carry a silicone soaked cloth or a cloth and some spray silicone to wipe it down before and after filling the gun to minimize the dirt accumulation. I was wondering if you have any fiber seal wipers for hydraulic cylinders at work that you could put around the pump rod to capture the dirt and dust particles in and just change them frequently.

        I know the Mrod can be tuned for lower fill pressures but it may not be able to shoot the heavy barracudas that well at the lower pressures but you could always go to the JSB 25 grain pellets or even the light 19 grain ones to get the distance with the lower pressures .

        I am very interested in how it shoots the 31 barracudas is as received tune from crosman as well and I wish JSB would get off their butt and get their new 34 grain pellets out to market as its been since 6/13 that I preordered a tin of 350 of them and still no shipping or tracking number so that is kind of frustrating.

        I am going to get some JSB 25 grainer to test with as well since that is the pellet he was shooting in that Rapid. I am seriously considering going all out with the Mrod with the bottle kit and WAR valve once HUMA get their 25 caliber regulator out for sale. Did you ever check out that website link I gave in the post earlier as it did not show as a hyperlink but was the web address and is wicked air rifles . com only all one word like a web address would be as they have some cool stuff and state they are making 100 fpe with Mrods with their propriety valve and debounce hammer.

        BD


        • Buldawg
          No I haven’t checked out the website. It’s been like non stop moving for me. Can’t keep up with everything happening this week.

          And I did just texted you about the hand pump.

          But here’s something I want you to look back at. When you were just posting your fps and how you were setting your adjustments on your gun. Didn’t you say you shot down to like 1600 psi I believe it was and you were still making like 830 fps or something like that with the 31 grn Barracudas.

          Again the fill pressure doesn’t determine how much velocity you make. The valve determines that by how it flows or controls the air.

          The valve can be set to flow 90 psi of air to the barrel at 3000 psi or 1600 psi or even 5000 psi. So if it takes 90 psi to push the pellet out of the barrel at 830 fps. All the fill pressure will do is determined how many shots you can get out of that volume of air that’s in the resivoir.

          How do you think we are getting the 1077 to work on 1100 psi HPA down to 800 psi. And getting reasonable amounts of shots at a decent velocity. If we could adjust the striker and striker spring tension then we could control that valve to allow more air to flow to the barrel to get a higher velocity out of the pellet.

          So I do believe I can get at least I’m guessing 800 fps at 2000 or even a lower resivoir pressure with my new Mrod.

          Let me know what you think.


  23. Edith,

    I understand the spam battle. I do already have a log in, but would be willing to create one for this site if I didn’t.

    Thanks for what you do to keep this active.

    Jim M.


  24. Gunfun1 and all
    I just got a chance to do some more tuning and testing on my 25 Mrod and thought I would post some more results and what for now will be my final tune.
    First the Bstalley o ring debouncer mod did not prove to be of any real significance as it only added maybe 2 to 3 more shots so the o ring where removed. I also, had some sealing issues with my 3/16″ ice maker tubing sealing the valve to the barrel as it works good on the 22xx/13xx platforms but it is not nearly twice as long at 9/16′ from valve to barrel in the Mrods and it is only holding 2000 psi air pressures instead of 3000 psi air pressure.

    So I used a .160″ metal transfer port with the tubing only at the very ends of the metal tube so there is only .125″ of ice maker tubing instead of the 9/16″ length so leak from valve to barrel is no longer an issue. So here is the results I have gotten with Benjamin 27.84 grain pellets and H&N 31,02 grain barracudas.

    1. 27 .84 Benjamin’s at 3000 psi fill and 2000 psi end pressure, hammer stroke at zero, hammer spring at 4 turn in and the air port is no longer adjustable so it is wide open for all tests with 3/16″ inch valve port and barrel port flowing thru a .160″ transfer port tube.
    Low = 819.5
    High = 862.7
    Avg = 848.4
    ES = 43.28
    SD = 14.35
    FPE = 46.02
    Spread of 5.02% for 16 shots

    2. Same as above except for 5 turn in on hammer spring with 3100 psi fill and 2250 psi end pressures
    Low = 847.9
    High = 880.6
    Avg = 86806
    ES = 32.70
    SD = 11.57
    FPE = 47.95
    Spread of 3.71% for 16 shots.

    3. Same as above only 6 turn on hammer spring and 3200 start fill and 2250 psi end fill.
    low = 835.5
    High = 8794.0
    Avg= 873.4
    ES = 58.50
    SD = 17.05 FPE = 49.42
    Spread of 6055% at 16 shots.

    4. same as above only now shooting H&N 31.02 grain Barracudas with 5 turns on hammer spring and 3200 start fill and 2300 end fill.
    low = 832.7
    high = 859.6
    Avg = 849.6
    ES = 26.61
    SD = 8.06
    FPE = 50.91
    Spread of 3.131% at 16 shots.

    5. same as above only at 6 turns on hammer spring and 3200 start fill and 2250 end fill.
    low = 823.6
    High = 869.8
    Avg = 853.2
    ES = 46.17
    SD = 15.00
    FPE = 52.12
    Spread of 5.31% for 16 shots

    6. same as above only going for max power with 8 shot string and 7 turns on hammer spring with 3200 start fill and 2700 end fill.
    low = 863.1
    High = 848.5
    Avg = 870.6
    ERS = 15.40
    SD = 4.69
    FPE = 53.17
    Spread of 1.75% for 8 shots.

    So it appears the ideal setting for a 16 shot string is 5 turns in on hammer spring using a 3200 start fill down to a 2300 psi end fill with a 3.131% spread on the 16 shots and if the fill pressure was lowered to 3000 psi and shot down to 2000 psi it would likely get close to 20 to 22 shot and possibly even 24 or 3 full magazines above 800 fps . I am happy with the result to this point but have more plans for the future to get a much higher shot count and higher fps as well. until then it will be left as is at 5 turns in on hammer spring and zero on hammer stroke.

    BD


    • I noticed some precut seals a t Home depot the other day that were of a much more plyable material, like the oxygen tubes on breathing equipment.I’ll be checking to see if I can match dimensions and get a chunk or roll if I can just get a good match.


      • Reb
        If I was still having sealing issues I would look into to those at home depot but it is all sealed and shooting how I want right now until I do my next major mod in a few months .

        BD


    • Buldawg
      That’s pretty good results. I was wondering if it was leaking at the transfer port with that other tubing your were trying when we was talking yesterday.

      And same here on my gen1 Mrod with the antibounce o-ring mod. Three shots more was about it. I think adjusting the striker stroke and the striker spring probably gives the best results.

      And that A team tuning giude I asked you to send me tells about how adjusting the transfer port adjusting screw will help with shot count.

      But again I guess it’s what your after with how you want your gun to shoot. But it is nice that the Mrod is adjustable. And they are like the small block Chevy of the airgun world I guess you could say with all the parts to mod them how you want.


      • Gunfun1
        I have it shooting quite good now I believe as for 16 shots it is making 48 to 53 FPE depending on the pellet used and has under a 4% spread in the ES for those 16 shots so that two good magazines at a high power level.

        The Mrod I will have to agree is the small block Chevy of the air gun world since the choices are endless as to what can be done with it and you know what my next upgrades will be but will wait till they are done to post the result on the blog as I think it will blow some people away as to just what can be gotten out of one for not that much money.

        Have a great 4th and stay out of that iron bar motel LOL, goit to go get ready to PARTY

        BD



  25. Reb
    The RAW 1000X is an outstanding airgun. Build quality is unsurpassed by any European airgun I’ve seen, owned or shot and made in Tenn. It is a pleasure to shoot. Having said that I end up toting the .25 Syn-rod. for small game.



      • They have scratched and dented mags on sale for $40 so, too rich for my blood! Never found a price listed, only a phone#. Guess ya gotta call for price & availability or maybe they only build them to order. Check out Rapid Air Weapons.



          • Depends on the RAW gun but in the $1500-$2100 range and about a 16 week wait. Mine has a thumbhole walnut stock with carbon fiber bottle regulated to have 60 shots @ 55 fpe and shoots 1 inch groups at !00 yards. It is pricey but cheaper than many European airguns. If you get a chance shoot one and let me know what you think.

            It’s a different animal than the Marauders, but anyone first getting into PCP airguns I always recommend a Marauder for biggest bang for the buck. After shooting Daystate, FX and AirArms all great guns, I was tickled to see an American made PCP surpass them in quality.


            • Kev
              I had a few FX guns and a Tx 200 and to many others to try to remember.

              But that is nice to hear of a quality USA made air gun.

              What way do you think the quality is better. Do they use different materials. Metal or o-rings or is the fit and finish better. Or is the barrels what’s making the gun.

              It’s good to hear from somebody that has one rather then trying to look stuff up on a website.


  26. Gunfun1
    Fit and finish are better with a butter smooth side lever action. The trigger sets it apart IMO being an adjustable match trigger. You can load it single shot by way of indentions in the breech or load a flawless 12 shot clip (.25 caliber). The breech regulator assembly has a Y yoke with a manometer on one side and foster fitting on the other and looks like a machined Swiss bank vault.

    They use different barrels but mine is a LW with a long carbon fiber sound supressor that makes it backyard friendly and quieter than a Marauder.

    It is a large airgun but fits in a 48″ plano case. It balances nicely and can easily be shot off hand, however, its forte’ is shooting off a bench. A
    Good analogy would be your TX is to a Trail NP as a RAW 1000X is to a Marauder. All good Airguns but the TX and RAW are really in a different category.

    The folks at RAW are also top notch with every email answered and great customer service. It’s hard to find a bad review anywhere.


Leave a Reply