by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy Red Ryder.
This report covers:
- The test
- Daisy BBs
- Hornady Black Diamond BBs
- H&N Smart Shot BBs
- Baseline
Today we look at the accuracy of my vintage Daisy Red Ryder BB gun. I shot the gun with open sights today, to baseline it for the next test, which will be with an optical sight mounted.
The test
I shot the BB gun off a UTG monopod rest at 5 meters. I was seated while doing this. I used a 6 o’clock hold — resting the black bull on top of the front sight that was level with the top of the rear sight. The first BB tested was the Daisy Premium Grade BB.
Daisy BBs
You would expect Daisy BBs to do well in a BB gun made by them. Of course more than a half century separates their dates of manufacture, but today’s BBs are far superior to the ones of the gun’s period.
Ten Daisy BBs went into a group measuring 1.398-inches at 5 meters. They landed slightly left of center, but the elevation was good. I will say the Red Ryder’s rear sight notch is a bit too wide for aiming precision.
Ten Daisy Premium BBs went into 1.398-inches at 5 meters from the Red Ryder.
The rear notch is too wide at the top for precision.
I am pleased with this result. I don’t remember ever testing this rifle in the past, but this is better accuracy than I remember from other vintage BB guns of the same period. Only No. 25 pump guns do better, and then it depends on both the age and design of the shot tube (made for lead or steel BBs?) and the ammo used.
Hornady Black Diamond BBs
The Hornady Black Diamond BB is pretty remarkable. It does well in most BB guns, regardless of their age. And it seems to be a trifle larger than other premium steel BBs, which may be a plus. The Red Ryder put 10 of them into 1.702-inches between centers at 5 meters. And notice they are a little more to the left of center.
Ten Hornady Black Diamond BBs went into 1.702-inches at 5 meters. Notice they are more to the left of center than the Daisy BBs.
H&N Smart Shot BBs
One real advancement in the world of BB guns has been the new copper-plated lead BB from H&N called the Smart Shot. Lead was the material BBs were made of until the 1920s, when Daisy responded to the challenge from a ball bearing manufacturer by bringing out a line of steel BBs called the Bullseye brand. When I was a kid in the 1960s, Daisy called their copper-plated BBs Golden Bullseye BBs.
When I was a kid, this is one way Daisy Golden Bullseye BBs were packaged. These packs sold for a nickel when I bought them, but in earlier years some men remember them selling for a penny.
The Smart Shot BBs have now been tested by me several times,. They work well in all BB guns that do not require a magnetic BB for feeding. My vintage Red Ryder loves them! Ten went into a well-centered 5-meter group that measured 1.335-inches between centers. That’s the smallest group of the day.
Ten Smart Shot lead BBs went into this well-centered group at 5 meters. It measures 1.338-inches between centers.
Baseline
Now, we have established the baseline of my vintage Red Ryder. Whatever happens next — this is what we will compare to.
I am very pleased by the Smart Shot group. Not only is it the smallest group, it is also nicely centered on the target. That’s almost as important as the group size when you are dealing with fixed sights. As I noted, the width of the rear sight notch makes aiming less precise, which plays into the groups seen here. An optical sight might improve things, just because it is easier to be precise.
I’m leaning towards mounting a quality dot sight, rather than a scope. A Red Ryder will be a short-range gun no matter how accurate it is, and a dot sight should be more than capable of the level of accuracy it can deliver.
BB
You said that your Red Ryder does not require a magnetic BB for feeding. Will the BBs roll out if the gun is depressed?
Thanks for a great blog.
SP4449
SP4449,
No, the way the shot tube works, once a BB is in the breech it will not roll out.
B.,B.
2 questions.
How does the shot tube retain the BB then, if not by a magnet?
Second, off the top of your head, do you know the clearance between the top hat and the valve of the Airforce edge?
I just picked one up, and the top hat is loose.
45Bravo,
I never worked on the Edge. It was made after I left AirForce. You can ask them, but I always used a quarter under the hat as a feeler gauge to set the clearance. We used a gauge at AirForce but the quarter sets the top hat at the exact height, which is 0.080″.
As for the shot tube, I guess that will become next Friday’s blog.
B.B.
Thanks, I will call them tomorrow.
The edge uses 3 small orings under the tophat as a buffer, so it’s entirely possible that the clearance is different than the Talon setup.
I didn’t mean to make extra work for you on the Red Rider, but that is intriguing.
Some companies are always trying to “improve” things.
And sometimes the improvements are actually a step backwards..
But it cost less or is easier to manufacture than the “old” way.
Again, thanks.
I have been curious as to whether the Smart Shot would do well in my 1959 Model 99. I may have to break down and buy some.
B.B.,
That is close to what I was getting with the 75th. Anniversary Red Ryder at 24′. Mine has shallow U shaped rear notch that is .064″ wide by .093″ deep. The front blade is .081″ wide. I have always had a bit of an issue using open sights, but when shouldered, the blade sits in the middle,.. with spaces on each side that equal the blade width.
Just a little info. to add to the Red Ryder report. Looking forward to the dot sight. That should help the groups quite a bit,… if the gun will in fact group better. I will be looking forwards to how you mount it as well.
Chris
When looking back at Part 1 of this report, you will see the muzzle cap rotates to the side and the bb’s are loaded into the tube below the barrel.
I was wondering if anyone has ever thought of using a soda straw, plug the one end, fill with bb’s and then plug the other end? That would be a rather effective “speed loader”. I did not have one as a kid, so I never had the chance to come up with that idea.
Chris,
That is not a bad idea for a speed loader. I may have to try it with my 99. It has a small hole in the body tube near the muzzle and a plug that rotates into place when you twist the muzzle. So far a funnel made from a post it type note has worked the best.
There is the issue of loading the straw, but that will be much easier and quicker than dropping the BB’s in one by one. You can use a pellet tin and scoop the BB’s up with the straw.
RR,
No doubt, an adult would come up with a quicker way. I was thinking more along the lines of a kid.
You can imagine giving a kid a massive amount bb’s, a big pack of straws and something to secure the ends with,…….. he would be off to his bedroom and not be seen or heard from,… for hours! 😉
Fold the fixed end over and hit it with stapler,… that would work. They also sell silicone, rubber and plastic tapered plugs as well as caps. If you want to keep it “old school”,… use a cork. Better yet, a small twig that you have whittled down with your first pocket knife that you got last Christmas.
Yup,.. still a kid at heart. 🙂
Chris,
That’s the first time I have heard of your idea. Good thinking.
B.B.
Chris, that does sound neat and would probably work. But with a magazine capacity of 650 bbs, if you fill it before you shoot, I doubt one would run out. Still it would be neat if say you were testing different bbs and did wanted say 10 or so of each brand ready to go.
Doc
BB–Chris– I made .22 LR speed loaders for my Marlin 39A and my Winchester 62 out of brass tubing from the hobby shops. That was almost 60 years ago, when I was hunting with those rifles. I Glued .38 cases on the bottom end, and used small corks for the upper end of the loader. I carried them in a small arrow quiver. I think that soda straws are not strong enough to make good loaders. The hobby shops also had brass tubing with a 1/8″ id. I used them to make liners for small model canons, when I altered them to fire black powder and bb,s. They might make better loaders than soda straws. Ed
Ed,
I thought of that too after I posted. I had recently looked at some of the 5/16″ brass for another project. Yours sound very nice. Now that sir,… would be the “Ultra-Deluxe” version!
I am out doing a warm up at 70 yards and then going to re-try my hand at 100. I have been trying some different things. I am having a heck of a time with the ocular lens fogging this morning. I even tried the anti-fog lens wipes. I ended up having to remove the eye bellows as it seems that is where the majority of the problem was coming from. Back later.
Chris,
It is so hot and humid here that even after dark it is way too yucky to enjoy shooting. I have that new sproinger I am wanting to play with, but it may have to wait until Fall.
RR,
I am sure you can make it out before fall,… but I can relate. I try to do mornings as that is when I am at my best anyways.
I am very surprised that no one commented on the perceived scope “haze”. Surely I am not the only one to experience this. Fogging was not the issue. It was more a case of residual fog and the sun rays effects with it, though any fog was not perceptible when looking over 35 yards. If looking off across a field though, slight haze could be seen. The gun and myself were in the shade, as always.
Chris,
I hope I can get out before then, but the weather reports say this mess is going to continue for quite some time. Yuck.
RR,
One thing I had brought up before was that I take a box fan out with me, sit on the ground about 8′ away, prop/angle it to hit my main body and turn it on high. It makes the otherwise sticky and unbearable,.. quite good. It is also excellent for keeping the skeeters and other small flying pest at bay. The can’t navigate the air turbulence enough to land on you. It works very well and looks to be the method I will be using later this am as the humidity is at 78% already.
Chris USA
That’s what’s making your flyers happen in your group’s. You got that fan blowing on you from one side. Then the wind changes direction and it’s got you pellets flight all messed up soon as it leaves the barrel.
😉
Chris,
I myself do such myself when I feel motivated enough to drag everything out. The last couple of weekends I have been hitting the honey do list pretty hard. At least a good portion of it is inside in the air conditioning.
My wife and I have also been talking of my making a window frame insert that would allow me to shoot out the window through a slot and be inside where it is nice and comfy. I think I may just have to work on that this week. 😉
RR,
That sounds very nice. I have pondered the same sort of thing. A patio door open to the woods, 20′ away, would be super sweet, but on hold for the moment. A window insert I can manage. I will have to give that some thought. I am thinking plexi glass with about a 2-3″ slot down the middle, 2 pcs..
RR,
I stopped by Lowes today while out. It is looking like 2 pieces of the cheap plexi glass. Fit to the height of an open window and overlap a bit in the middle. When target is acquired, slide one to the side. It would keep the AC in and allow full view. 2 pcs. that would do a 34Wx 28T opening would be 20$. Not sure if I want to part with that at this time. What I would like is to get a good food that would bring them out in the day, like ear corn. I do not have a bird feeder and do not want the cost of the bird seed. If I can get them coming in on a regular basis,…. it will be ON!
Just thought that I would pass that on since you were pondering the same thing. Of course, you can get as fancy or as simple as you want. Chris
Chris
What are you trying to bait ?
twotalon
TT,
Squirrels’. I see them crawling up under the car all the time. Even had wires chewed up, 200$, on the car before this one.
Chris
Running out of room .
Set out sunflower seed where they can find it . Can be in a small dish .
Or poke some holes in the bottom of a steel can to drain it, and tack it on the side of a tree . Fill with sunflower seed or corn .
The red that was hanging around here developed a taste for suet blocks . It did not like the 18 gr Exact.
twotalon
TT,
Got it! Notes made and on the shopping list! Thanks! 😉
LOL! I am not doing it to shoot tree rats or such, although it would work nicely for that. I was just going to shoot target.
My wife would have a conniption if I was to shoot game around the house. We have had thirteen deer in our yard at one time this early spring. I took a picture of a buck looking in the kitchen window this past weekend. If it had not been for the glass, I could have touched him.
BB–Chris— Speed loaders were not my idea. I saw them being used in the shooting galleries in Coney Island, along the boardwalk. Real Winchester pump rifles, real ammo, long gone. Ed
B.B., I remember buying those plastic packs of bbs when I was a kid too. We shot so much that one pack didn’t last no time. We’d usually buy them in cardboard “tubes” and if I was really lucky, a box. But when we’d run out, We’d scrape up some coins, make an emergency run to the store and buy some of these packs.
Also, we had our own speed loaders. Before I say what/how, let me just say I don’t not recommend doing this! Do not do this at home lol. We’d fill our mouths up with bbs and “spit” them in the loading ports of our bb guns. It got the job done fast. Our guns never rusted cause we always “over” oiled them. We always liked the “puff” of the oil mist (smoke we called it) coming out of the barrel. Just like the westerns we watched. Thanks for bringing back memories.
Doc
Doc,
Everything you said rings true with me, as well. Except for the oiling. I didn’t learn that until a bad encounter with a No. 25. 🙁
B.B.
Ditto on the ‘spitting’ BBs into the gun. And like you said- I over oiled enough that the inside never rusted. Was a good feeling to have a new tube of BBs. The ones I remember had a crimp sorta like a shotgun shell. Not positive but seem to remember the tube costing 15 cents and was a much better deal than the nickel pacs.
Those plastic Golden BB packages bring back memories. I usually bought the tubes, but saw those plastic ones everywhere. A friend got the “Treasure Chest” full of them for Christmas one year.
I wonder why the quantity was 152 instead of a nice, round, number like 150?
They also remind me of a story. Around 1970, a friend of my brothers was leaving for army basic training at Ft Knox the next day. He and some friends decided to do some BB gun shooting that day and stopped at a hardware store for a couple of those plastic envelopes of BBs. They wouldn’t sell them to him because he was a few days short of 18 years old.
There he was, a few days short of 18, about to go into the army and maybe off to Vietnam (he didn’t) and he couldn’t but a nickel’s worth of BBs!
Barry,
Yeah. And then they spit on him and called him a baby killer when he wore his uniform in an airport.
B.B.
My first pellet gun for a new shooter would not be one of these but a Crosman 760. Preparing a 760 for shooting requires a more deliberate pace which I think is better for young shooter than just cock and shoot. Plus, the 760 is accurate out to 15 or 20 yards, which is much more rewarding than the Red Rider. I would have been able to make a dent in the English sparrow population where as no chance with a Red Rider. I wouldn’t frustrate a new shooter with the inaccuracy of the Red Rider and similar guns.
Brent, I’m in no way saying to do this or it’s right, it’s not. But, when I was a kid, I killed more birds (and a few snakes) with a Red Ryder than I can count! Probably wounded just as many 🙁 I wouldn’t want my son’s trying to kill them with theirs. That said, when you shot as much as we did, we did well hitting the target. I’m not a target shooter, just the results of shooting the same gun so many times. You’d learn to “point” shoot with them. We’d just about know where the bb would hit. Back then, beer/coke bottles and steel coke cans didn’t have a chance. Back then when the coke cans were steel, we were happy if we could go through just one side. Now it doesn’t take much to go through both sides.
That all said, I do agree with you, a 760 would probably be better. I think even better for kids would have been the discontinued Crosman 788 BB Scout. It was a little smaller and not as powerful, but even easier to pump.
It was just frustrating for me seeing my dad hit pretty much everything he aimed at with his 22 and me not being able to hit anything even though I had the sights lined up correctly. It’s a moot point because 760, s weren’t available then but even that Diana 16 smoothbore we got a few years later would have been better than the Daisy 750 I had.
Daisy 99 might have been a different story, however.
I just think that when you line up the sights of a gun, more times than not, the shoot should go there
Brent,
A 499 hands down. Yea, it cost more,…. but man oh man are they sweet and acurrate. They cock about 4X easier than a Red Ryder too. It would be a good step on the way to a scope as well.
Chris, I assume you have a 499? I would also assume they “cock” easier due to them having a less powerful spring (not that that is a bad thing for what it’s used for). All that said, my question is, will the 499 consistently “pop” soda cans at 20 yards? How about 25 yards? I know it sounds funny, but I have some of the sights on our “bb” guns all the way up. My boys love nothing more than shooting those cans at long range (for a bb gun). Pull the trigger, you think at first you missed, then “Dink”, the can wobbles or falls over. We do it a lot with our Daisy Grizzly.
Doc,
You are correct. The Red Ryder, and some of it’s other siblings have more power. 20 yds.?,… I do not know. I did shoot it at 41′ indoors and got 10 of 10 at 1 3/16″ and 7 of 10 @ 7/8″. It did hit 3″ low of the aim point which was without adjusting the sights that were set for 21′. That was quite awhile ago and I may do better now,… but since you asked,…. that is what I got and the furthest that I have tried it. I shoot it at 21′ all the time while watching TV.
Doc Holiday
IMHO the grizley is the best BB repeater Daisy ever made. Accurate enough to hit a pop can every time at 10 meters with random BB’s and a lot better than that with premiums and a little oil on each. They are as powerful as a Daisy 25 and fast for repeat shots. The most recent one i bought needed a wooden bushing to keep the inner barrel centered. The 499 is truly in a league by itself. Power is held down because it’s often used indoor for competitions at 5 meters. Chris USA is the real expert on these. I like the 760.they can be made to shoot almost as well as a 499 with sized and oiled premium BBs or you can use pellets. You can drop in a rifled barrel from an M4-177 to improve pellet accuracy. The Daisy 74 is an awesome BB CO2 repeater.
I hope Gamo doesn’t drop some of the Daisies.
Fido3030
Fido, I thought it was just my Grizzle that shot good. Some people don’t get their’s to shoot well. May be just the made in China thing with quality. Like people and the 880. Some good and some bad. That said, my grizzle is even better with pellets (I know it’s a smooth bore, but the shape of the pellet lends itself to better accuracy. I’ve read a lot of good on the Daisy 74. B.B. had/has me wanting a Umarex Morph. It shot well for him. I agree on Gamo. I hope it’s good for Daisy and not bad. But the way Daisy was going, I can only see it helping.
Doc
Fido3030,
“Expert”?,… really? I would not say so by any stretch. I am sure that there is many kids across the country that shoot competition that would leave me sitting in the dust.
I have been inside one on several occasions, tried a tune or mod or two, and,.. shoot it a bunch. That is about the extent of any expert-ise.
I still use your oiled bb’s idea. (That one is a real winner). As for any comparisons,… it is what it is. I think it chronied at 258 while the Red Ryder was around 350. The cocking and trigger are horrid on the Red Ryder. I am not sure that the extra cocking effort can be solely attributed to a stronger spring. I think that there may be some leverage or pivot points that are different on the 499.
The Red Ryder and it’s siblings are pretty much indestructible. That is good for a rough and tumble kid. So for a very young kid, that may be the best choice. Given a bit older youngster and for a lever action,… the 499 would be the only thing. The plastic peeper in the rear being the (only) downside to any potential abuse/dirt. I can say that a youngster with a 499 would get bored pretty quick taking out feral pop cans at 45′ and in.
Can you tell I’m not a big fan of these guns at all 🙂
Back in from the 70 and 100 yard shooting,….. (.25 M-rod)
On the above comment of having trouble with the lens’s “fogging up”,…. I think that I figured out a thing or two.
The fog was quite thick this AM. By the time that I had made it out, things looked pretty good. My seat is 35 yards from the woods, and things looked quite clear. The woods are mature and dark, but I usually have no trouble since I switched to hand drawn black bulls on white paper.
(I think) that there was enough residual fog/mist/moisture in the air,.. and that the scope was picking up on that and “amplifying” it. The scope was quite cloudy and barely usable. An hour later, all was fine. It got to the point that wiping the lenses did nothing. I think when I did wipe them and re-look,… it just seemed better because my eyes had had a break from the intense focusing.
I do not know if that is a “phenomenon”,… but that is what it appears to have been.????
The other thing I noted was when I removed the eye bellows. I had forgotten how much of a benefit it is. My eye socket hit it’s perfect,…. and that,… along with the adjustable cheek riser,…. make eye relief and cheek bone weld perfect in an instant. Not to mention better sight picture.
At any rate,… no real bragging rights on any of the groups,…. 🙁
70 yd., 25.39’s, 1 5/16″, 1 1/4″, 1 7/16″ with 7of 8 @ 15/16″ (33.95’s N/A due to sight picture issues)
100 yd., 33.95’s, 3″ and 2 3/4″
100 yd., 25.39’s, 3 7/8″ and 2 3/4″
As the Porky Pig would say,…. ba-deeb-ba deeb-a deep,… that’s all folks! 🙂 (spell check did not like that combo)
Interesting but I don’t understand the notation. What are 25.39, 33.95 etc.? Regardless, those groups look good to me. A few years ago, B.B. wrote that shooting at 100 yards with airguns was a circus act. The technology and expectations seem to have improved a little since then, but that’s still an achievement.
Matt61
Matt61,
That is the grain of the pellet. Both are JSB brand. As for the circus act,… PCP’s I think pretty well changed that. I have shot the TX200 (springer) out to 70 yds. 10 of 10 at 2 1/8″ and 7 of 10 at 1 3/4″.
The sad part is that I have done better at 70 and 100,….. just can not make it happen all the time. I am sure you can say the same from your experiences at the range with firearms.
Chris
Hilarious. There are firearms purists who say that putting a scope on a lever-action is an abomination. What would they say about putting a scope on a Red Ryder? Nevertheless, people are doing it anyway. I believe that blog reader Wayne put a scope with high see through mounts on a lever action rifle. Also, I see that even the iconic top-ejecting Winchester 94 is being made so that the case ejects sideways allowing use of a scope. For its chosen mission of hunting deer in dense brush I don’t know if a scope would make a difference but a red dot sight may.
Fido3030, counting the clicks of a revolver cylinder at speed would be difficult but you can try it yourself. But be aware that the clip below is the final spoiler scene of the movie which is entertaining and which you may want to watch in its entirety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvQjh5H_lx4
Matt61
Thanks, i’ll wait to see the whole movie. I like CE. He always has some cool gun stuff. Thanks again for the Dempsey book tip.
Fido3030
Well I bet ya all thought Gunfun1 done went south. Nope but almost. Needless to say I had a interesting Friday.
Just got back from the ER. Was cutting grass this morning before I went to work. Afternoon shift I work as most know. To give you a idea about how this happened I’ll start here.
I got poison ivy and poison oak as a kid. And I mean head to toe. Yep ER and all that stuff too back then. But after that I could pull poison ivy and poison oak with my bare hands and not catch it anymore. Well I know what all the poison itchy plants look like. Even poison Sumac. Well guess what. Poison Sumac got me this time. Well by time I got to work I was all swelled up. Welps upon welps. Shots and and IV’s and all that fun stuff.
But just got home about a hour ago. Swelling is down and I can feel my finger tips touching something again finally.
Got the Python yesterday and ain’t even got to get into it yet. But it did come in a box not that plastic blister pack or whatever it’s called. And I could tell right away that it was a Umarex product by the way they marked their box from previous guns I had. They have a distinct way to show if it’s a bb or pellet gun and velocity and all that kind of stuff. Anyway so wonder why the clips from it and the Brodax interchange.
Oh and Chris USA. So making your shooting table more steady and sealing it with Thompson’s water seal didn’t help improve your groups. I’d be asking for a refund from Thompson’s if you can’t get no better groups. 😉
And sorry but I just crack up everytime I hear about speed loaders. You know you still got to take time to load each bb in that tube or whatever it is your loading before it goes in the gun. Me and my brother had that conversation when we was kids with my Winchester 190 with the tube mag. Even if we could load the gun fast with a preloaded tube it still needed loaded before it was used to load the gun and took time.
But on the other hand if a bunch of tubes or mags let’s say in the case of a Marauder are preloaded. When it comes time to a shooting session. Them mags do empty fast. So I guess it’s all about what point and time you want to spend your time loading and how your using the gun.
I myself like to load up Marauder mags for how many useful shots I get per fill if I use the mags; well and other pcp guns with mags or clips. Same if I’m shooting a co2 gun. And I loaded the 15 bullets in the Winchester 190’s tube on the gun. Why cause it went through bullets fast. That’s kind of how I conserved ammo. And thats why I got a single shot tray in my. 25 Mrod. Pop a pellet in and shoot. No reloading a mag. Just shoot a few shots and move on to my next gun in line to be shot.
Well hopefully tomorrow I can spend sometime with the Python. Hopefully my eyes will be focusing better by then. I hope. It’s suppose to be nice temperatures and very calm. So I’m ready . Especially after today.
GF1,
Yea,… I was wondering what happened. Glad to hear that you are on the repair. Yesterday was a bit of an off day,… but still not bad. I did get the TX and LGU out at 30 yds.,…… finally,.. after about 2 months of nothing. Only about 20 shots each. That was a bit rushed too,.. as thunder storms were rolling in fast.
Good luck with the Python. Funny on the Thompsons. 😉 Practice, practice and practice. It is nicer. I think it is really just down to adjusting all aspects of hold and keeping those all perfect from one shot to the next. I am doing really well and trying super hard to do that, but there is something in the mix that still needs tweaked a bit.
Chris USA
Yep seems to be better. Maybe I’m immune to poison Sumac now after this. But not interested in finding out anytime soon. And what gets me is we 4 wheel all over the place and didn’t get nothing last year even. Bur I cut grass today in my shorts on the rider mower tractor. Yep big mistake. Stuff blowing all over me.
And I kind of think hold is it in a sense too. But really how hard do you need to concentrate for your shot. How long do you take to make your shot when you get on target? For me the longer I take the worse my shot.
And that was good you got the springers in the mix. I like switching my guns up when I shoot. That way I ain’t trying real hard to make that good group. I just take it for what it is that day when I get a gun in my hand.
You should try just setting the gun on the table. Get on target and shoot. Then compare groups to what way you have been shooting. If they are different then you can see what way is best. That will tell you if your are concentrating right and seeing your shot happen. Or if you are trying too hard and watching your target and gun sight and working to hard to maintain that aim point.
Sometimes a natural steady chain of events will work best. In other words just relax and let the shot happen when it feels right.
Oh heck you know what I mean. And this medicine is keeping me up. Which is going to be a bummer when I want to try to get up tomorrow morning to shoot.
GF1,
Yes, I do know what you mean. And yes, I do relax. With the front grip, rear grip, bi-pod, shoulder pressure, hand on grip and finger on trigger, eye and cheek pressure,…. well, you know what I mean.
But yes, being relaxed and into a nice rhythm is crucial. As for taking too long, yes, that is not good. I am working on that and pulled up off of (stopped) a few shots yesterday for that very reason.
Chris USA
I don’t have a rhythm. I think I’m what they call a reaction shooter. If I have a semi-auto gun. I can move from one target to the next and hit pretty well as fast as as I can pull the trigger. Well I use to be real good at it when I was younger. The bench resting has kind of spoiled me. Plus my eye sight is not as good with open sights like it use to be.
But I have been getting better at it again from the Brodax with open sights. And I did put the bug buster scope on the 1077 and using it rapid fire on multiple targets with both eyes open. Getting pretty good results that way.
I just got a case of a 100 co2 cartridge’s and already had a box of 40 and stocked up on the Daisy wadcutters and the Crosman pointed premier’s. That’s the kind of shooting I’m planning on doing for a bit again. Going to leave the bench resting alone for a while. Time to stand up and shoot for a while. I’m well over due. And giving the other guns a rest as well.
You should take your pistol outside and do some shooting at cans placed out about 10-20 yards in various places. Pretty fun. And you will find the bench resting will be alot easier when you come back to it. Remember when you thought 50 yards was far. Now it’s nothing after doing a 100 yards. Well that’s what will happen if you do some standing shooting with your pistol and come back to bench resting.
Anyway going out in a bit to get into the Python.
GF1
I am at a bit of a loss to know just what bit you . From pictures on the web, I can’t tell the difference between poison ivy and poison oak . The sumac, have no idea …..
Is it one of these two ?
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z244/twotalon/sumac1/DSC_0025_zpsuz0xnzow.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z244/twotalon/sumac2/DSC_0029_zpsbcmbasvg.jpg
The ivy (or oak) has never got me . Never had an encounter with the sumac .
twotalon
TT
Here is a image of all 3. And the picture of the poison Sumac looks exactly like what we have.
http://www.beyonddisease.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Poison-Ivy-Poison-Oak-and-Poison-Sumac.jpg
Chris USA
Sharks. I like sharks too. Dead ones.
Don’t have any idea why this posted here. Was suppose to be down below with Chris USA shark story.
GF1
Hey hey! Glad to hear your OK. They say your body can change its composition enough to react differently with that stuff like every so often? But I’m glad you good enough to give Chris a lil razzing. 😉 😉 😉
I will look into contacting crosman. I have really grown to like ol Maxine. 🙂 I haven’t shot her much and of course my golden boy hw 30 isnt jealous but the rest of the herd sure is. I’m just so spoiled with good a good trigger and now a nice cycle. i just gotta get those on the same gun… No wonder you and Chris only shoot those mrods. 😉
I’m glad the ol python made it. I dunno how it’s sposed to be down there but up here it’s sposed to be decent up here again later today. Hopefully your weather holds out for ya.
I have enjoyed myself too much tonite. I need water and sleep. Hopefully some pistol shooting tomorrow, and a rifle. Idk which one yet tho.
PH
The Calamine lotion is at least getting the itching settled down so happy about that. And it seems to be only about 4 places that are left now. So whatever they shot in me at the ER helped.
And get the Marauder trigger. I know you will like it better. And did you see in the reply I made the other day that I had a Discovery without the stock on it. I used a Marauder pistol grip assembly or maybe it was one from a 1720T. Can’t remember which right now but both are nice fully adjustable 2 stage triggers. And the. I had a 1399 but stock on it. Was very light easy to handle gun.
Let us know if you get a y shooting done today.
It’s definitely a short range piece but I still remember the Red Ryder you had with the old “scope” on it (really just a “sight tube” as I recall). A long tube, small aperture scope would look great on a Red Ryder (or a 499) if you could find one that suited them proportionately. I’m not going to ask you to do that because it probably be of little to no practical use and I still remember how much trouble you had getting the original sight-tube set up on your Red Ryder in that test a few years ago. I appreciate the trouble you went through doing that at my request back then. Once is enough:-)
Nowhere,
Thank you for that. April 6th 2012. (Definitely) worth the quick look and quite fitting given the topic. Real nice pictures as well.
Since the blog is a bit slow for a weekender,… I thought I would share another passion of mine besides air gunning,…. Sharks!
As luck would have it,.. there appears to be a documentary channel exclusively dedicated to this very topic!
From what I gather,.. (please forgive me as I am still a bit new to this),…. but Sharks can breed with Octopi, Squid, Anaconda’s, Piranha’s,.. as well as,.. be 3 headed,.. atomic,.. live in ice for thousands of years,.. assume a Zombie like state,.. and some have even been found in the Ozarks. Imagine that, huh?
All of that may come as a bit of a surprise to some of you, but it is true! Now,.. (and this is important),.. if you would happen to find yourself in an encounter with one the these high-bred Sharks,.. there is also some (Do’s and Don’ts) that I have learned as well. They are as follows:
1) While you might think that a strong, full of heroism and machismo, jock type young man might fair better in this sort of encounter,.. you would be wrong. Attempting to save the Damsel’s in distress is not all it is cracked up to be. You will be eaten first!
2) If you happen to be the foresaid Damsel(s) in distress,… (scantily clad would seem to be the attire from best I can gather),… it is best to be humble and smart. If,… on the other hand,.. you are stuck up, condescending and full of yourself,.. you will be eaten first!
3) Now,.. a bit gun related,.. (just to stay on topic here),… whatever you bring, no matter how big the bullet, whatever you think will be enough,… it won’t be. Go after one,.. and you will be eaten as well!
4) Now, you may think that is all a bit “gruesome”,.. but,.. the opinion of the docu/film makers seems to be that this is just a way of helping “Mother Nature” to weed out the weak links in the chain of life.
At any rate,… too hot and humid to shoot. Back to my “studies”. 😉
Tomorrow, four episodes back to back on how to take a shark out with a chainsaw .
TT
TT,
I like it!,… Save the world and Sushi to boot! Or,.. would that be Sashimi? Maybe Savechi?
( Raw fish/seafood on a rice “bun”,.. raw fish/seafood,.. raw fish/seafood marinated in an acid such as lime juice,… which actually “cooks” it.)
Wasabi with a side of Soy sauce please!
Chris USA
Let me try this again. I don’t know why it posted up above.
Sharks. I like sharks too. Dead ones.
GF1,
The Python?,……..
Chris USA
In a bit. Still have’n fun with it and the 1077. Just can’t stop right now. 😉
Chris USA
Ok some info.
Yep I like the adjustable rear sights verses the fixed on the Brodax. The rifled barrel lets me stretch out a little farther too. Can hit a 12 oz. Soda can at 20 yards 8 out of 10 shots free hand. Had to be bench rested with the Brodax.
It likes the Daisy wadcutters as well as the pointed Crosman premier’s. I did the hot glue trigger stop mod to it also and trimmed it to get the double and single action better.
It’s lighter and longer than the Brodax. So I do like the Brodax because it feels more solid when I hold it. But both guns are excellent for their price.
Here’s the one I got.
/product/colt-python-357-co2-pellet-bb-revolver?m=4060
And here’s the Brodax incase somebody wants to compare. And you can see the clips interchange.
/product/umarex-brodax-bb-revolver?m=3948
And most important info last. I found out why the co2 cartridge seal in the Brodax failed that I have.
Me is why. I have a problem with tightening things up pretty good so they don’t come apart. Well that’s the problem. I was using the Allen wrench in the Brodax handle. And the handle is easy to make a lot of leverage. So I was tightening rapidly. And then adding some more pressure after that. Well eventually I smashed the seal.
So here is something people probably already know that shoot co2 all the time. Be gentle and no need to go fast when piercing the co2 cartridge. I don’t even hear any gas leak as I pierce now when doing it that way. My 1077 works exactly the same way.
Anyway yep happy with the Python. Oh and it’s getting about 110 good shots per cartridge just like the Brodax. If some body gets either pistol I do believe they will be happy with the purchase.
GF1,
Glad to hear that you are happy with it. My 92FS only gets 64 shots, or 8, eight round clips. It will do more but drops by the 9th clip for sure. I like the Python looks too. The cartridge type looks better but the clips are o-so sweet. That is what the 92 has,.. circular clips.
Chris USA
I almost got one of those in the past.
My next pistol I’m going to get will have blow back.
Back sometime ago when I tryed air soft guns after getting my first Discovery when they came out. I wanted to get a Tanfoglio witness. But never did. I would like to find one that has blow back and shoots co2. I’m pretty sure they have the one available that has the bracket to add one of the light weight hologram dot sights. That will be my next gun if I find it in a pellet shooting version. I’m pretty sure it out there to be had.
And I always go back and forth with my brother about pistols verses rifles. He’s a firearm pistol shooter and some rifle. I’m just the opposite. But I think I’m finding out that I just may have some pistol shooting qualities deep down inside.
All I know is I had a blast with the Python and the 1077 today.
Just wish this itching would stop.
GF1,
This may sound a bit weird,… but drive around a look for some (fresh) roadkill. Skunks are best, but a good sized Opossum will work almost as good. Get it home and rub it all over yourself. In no time at all, you will not even notice the itching,…. problem solved!
Do not expect to sleep with the “little woman” though. Maybe more along the lines of the shooting breezeway,…. with the windows open! Hey,… at least you can shoot while you try to sleep. 😉
Good luck,…. never had it that bad.
Chris USA
So your saying I get some skunk and rub it on me and all will be well.
Well I had a buddy that got up close and personal with a skunk and a few dogs that got acquainted with a few skunks.
No but sorry. I’ll die itching first. You know it’s that kind of itch were you can’t stop. You just keep going and feels better and better.
And possums no also. Just not going to touch one of those ugly things. My oldest daughter wanted me to catch a baby possum that was a little smaller than a year old cat. I told her no. And she goes dad but it’s so cute. No no no. On either. 🙂
GF
My wife gets ivy. She has some trouble distinguishing it from small box elder and maple sprouts . She always asks me first . If it’s ivy, she has me pull it out .
TT
TT
My wife gets it bad. She won’t even look at it. She will always get me to pull it. She was surprised when I called her and told her I was in the ER from poison Sumac. She has never seen me with it. I was verily a teenager when I got the oak and ivy real bad. We didn’t know each other yet.
Just hope now I won’t catch the Sumac any more. Heck I bet I could start a biusness getting rid of poison ivy and oak. And would really be in biusness if I don’t get Sumac anymore.
I bet people would pay for that. 🙂
Hi GF1 . Good luck on the blow back pistols. Once you realize they are designed to self destruct you wont be dissapointed. Being constructed out of smelter which is a fancy word for pot metal, the innards of a lot of them well wear out and break with a blowback pistol with a heavy slide. I tried 3 Legends po8s and each of them failed with less then a 1000 shots. I got perhaps 2000 shots with the C96 Mouser, and that was probably due to the lighter slide.
Continuing on with the post. The last blow back pistol I got is the Sig Sauer P226 Open . What a sweet fun to shoot pistol. One thing I have learned is some of these blow back semi automatics is not to load the magqzine full capacity of BBs . There is so much spring pressure on some of those magazines, the pressure of BBs against the plastic stop will deform that stop and allow double or triple feeds, thus causing jamming or multiple shots and BBs becoming wedged in the action. When that happens, since the BBs are harder then the smelter, breakage may occur . I may buy another Legends Po8 blowback, and if I do, will just load about 8 BBs in the magazine to help prevent thiese problems. The Po8 action is real cool to see, when it works Have fun with the Python. I sure like my Brodax.
Harvey
Harvey
Thanks for the info. Maybe I will stay away from them. I hate when stuff breaks.
And just me but I don like shooting bb’s. I would only get one if I can find one that is blow back and pellets.
I would get a air soft version before a bb gun version. And I would shoot the biodegradable air soft ammo. Just don’t like bb’s laying around the yard.
And I think after your reply I do believe I will get another Brodax instead of a blow back slide gun. My Brodax is out of the 90 day warrenty when I finally found out my purchase date. But that’s ok. I will have the old one for spare parts I guess if I get another one. And yep I do like both the Brodax and the Python. 🙂
Discussing this with you GFI , and reviewing my problems with blowback BB pistols, I am wondering if shooting the copper coated lead BBs would solve some of my problems. Lead should be softer then smelter so perhaps not so much internal damage in casef a double feed or jam . The Desert Storm sure has had good reviews as a blow back pellet pistol, but they are spendy. Have fun.
Harvey
Harvey
I will have to check out the Desert Storm in pellet blow back.
And if you try the copper coated bb’s in a blow back gun I want to hear how they do. If they work good that would allow for alot More blow back choices then. There is like tons of blow back bb pistols. That would be great news if they do good.
GF1,
Have you tried an oatmeal paste to baking soda paste for the itchin?
Both helped me for poison ivy..
Jim
Jim
Thanks for that. No I haven’t tried that. Hopefully it seems like it’s getting close to done. Not itching very much at all today. But I may try that in a spot and see if it clears it up faster than the Calamine lotion. Thanks again.
Chris USA
Here this is what I’m talking about. But it looks like it’s only available in steel bb’s or air soft. Don’t see anything in pellet version. And thats a bummer.
/product/tanfoglio-gold-custom-co2-metal-pistol-kit?m=3240
GF1, I will put in a order of the smart shot BBs this week and post my results. I have a Sig Sauer P-226 Crohns disease . I am asking if everyone could put this as their status for 1 hour. I’m pretty sure I know the ones that will. Think of someone you know or love who has crohns. My hope is that in 2016 a cure will be found. Will you post it for 1 hour? To honor those who have fought or are fighting crohns
Copy and paste, don’t shareen
GF1, nuts, Facebook posting got into my last post and I can’t edit it out. Anyway , one of my blowback BB semi autos is the Tanfoglio Limited Custom, It will be on of the pistols I will test with the smart shot BBs. Other blowback pistols are the Colt Commander, Sig Sauer P226 open and the Walther PPS.
Harvey
Harvey
I’m very interested in how the smart shot works in your guns for sure post your results.
And I kind of know what you mean about Crohns disease. I had Diverticulitis and spent some time in the hospital from it. I had 12″ of my colon removed. All I know is it was the worse pain I ever felt. But yep saying a prayer for you.
Fortunately I and my family do not have Crohns disease. Evidently my daughter has a friend wit it and that awareness thing was to be copied and pasted to my status in Facebook. Thank you for your concern but I am great for what I am !
Best wishes
Harvey
Ok just added up my shots today. Between the Python and the 1077 a little over 900 shots.
Reminds me of back in the day shooting .22 rimfire guns. And what’s funny is my pellets I used today cost me about the same as rimfire bullets back in the early 70’s. See how much I would of spent today if I was shooting that many rimfire rounds. Easy a $50 day of rimfire shooting with as much as they cost now.
Glad I got air guns. Don’t think I could afford rimfire shooting like that now days. And I did have just as much fun as I use to with my air guns.
GF1
Posted a little prematurely. That python sounds like a hoot.
Your killling me!!! I get one gun and the I start dreaming of another! 😉 the 1077 with a bug buster sounds like such a sweet “pick up anytime and womp sum cans” gun. Its coming, one day. 🙂
PH
For sure happy with the Python. The adjustable sight I believe helped me alot to be able to shoot it better. Once I got it sighted for how I hold it I was hitting dead on every shot. The Brodax was shooting a little to the right. So if I shot fast at different cans in the yard I wasn’t as accurate placing the sights on the can. With the Python and sights adjusted it’s just point and shoot. I do like it.
And the 1077’s make fair power for a co2 gun. I punched through one side of a spray paint can at 25 yards with a wadcutter pellet. And it will spin my 2″ spinner at 50 yards. For the money they cost you will be surprised how accurate they are. And they do have adequate power to pest shoot birds or mice. Fun guns. You won’t be disappointed if you get one. 🙂
In my opinion, the Tasco 2.5 x bantam scopes are among the best choices for the Crosman 1077. I have 5 of them . 3 are on Slavia 618,s , and 2 are on my 1077,s. I have 2 Bugbusters ( R7 and HW30S) , Center point 3X9, UTG 4X and many other quality scopes on my .22 rimfire rifles. The small size and light weight makes the Bantams ideal for small, light weight air rifles. I have tried all of these bigger scopes on the 1077,s and found no improvement with the higher magnifications. They made the rifles top heavy and clumsy. I have also tried red and green dot sights. I have used these sights on my pistols since 1970 (aimpoint) and now have a holo sight on my Walther GSP. When I shoot my air rifles, it,s for fun, and I dont want the complication of battery powered sights. My basement and backyard ranges are 10 meters long. If you are shooting at longer ranges, you might need higher magnification, but 2.5x is fine for 10m. Tasco Bantam scopes are no longer made, so I look for them at gun shows. Ed
Ed
The Bugbuster is the littlest scope I have. Heck I had one of my Hawke sidewinder scopes on it once.
But I will have to say I’m usually a 6 magnification shooter. I do have the Bugbuster at 4 magnification on the 1077. It works out nice for me. I’m kind of a little on the bigger side. About 215 pounds at right at 6′. So to me even a scoped Marauder don’t feel bad to carry. The 1077 is like a feather compared to the Marauder.
But yep I do like shooting lower magnification. I did have my Tasco red dot on it at one time also. That was a nice combination. But it’s on the Tx and it’s not comming off of that gun.
And it’s been a long long time since I used them small 2.5 power scopes. Maybe I should give one a try again. But if I remember right they had a small field of view. Maybe ok for target shooting looking in only one place. Not so good I’m thinking for rapid fast acquisition rapid fire shooting. Maybe I will have to retry them small scopes again though. Maybe. 🙂
GF1,
Just back in from 12 groups at 70 yards. 6 were push the bi-pod and 6 were pull the bi-pod. All 12 were with real heavy emphasis on keeping the trigger finger position the (exact) same and straight pull through. Relaxed, all felt good. All groups were around 1 1/4″. As for any stand-outs, 1, that was a sub-group of 5 of 8. It was just a little bigger than a .25 pellet,… and I mean just.
So,…. nothing really stood out. The push VS the pull seems to be working slightly better, but not by much.
Back to the “mines”. 😉
Chris USA
Seems like you keep getting those flyers. That’s what the Barracudas use to do to my. 25 Marauder. That was the whole reason I switched to the JSB 33.95’s no more flyers. Well I shouldn’t say that. I might get one flyer out of 30 shots and it’s like only a 1/8″ from the main group. So that’s a flyer in my book. The Barracudas where much worse. They were like a 1/4″ or more away from the main group.
Maybe your barrel just might need a good cleaning with that bore paste BB talks about. You done pretty much everything else other than re-crowning the barrel.
The flyers you get is what bothers me.
GF1,
Let me see if I have this straight,….. a “flier” is something that lands 1/8″ to 1/4″ from the main group,…. (at 70 yards)? Now,… in further retrospect,…. I did shoot 96 shots, 12 eight shot groups,…. and those groups averaged 1 1/4″ each. 5,… of those 96,… landed in shall we say,.. 5/16″,.. in 1 group,… of 8.
That would put things in about a 5/96 ratio. Man!,…. you are right,… I do have a “flier” problem.
All I can say is that it was a “good day”. I was into a nice “Zen” rhythm and all was perfect from shot to shot,… yet they, (some), landed different. That,… to me,… speaks of the pellet.
Chris USA
Then if it’s rhythm and Zen you better dig deeper.
And then we agree you got a flyer problem.
But what’s funny is your shooting the supposedly good JSB’s and still get flyers. I had to step up to the JSB’s to stop getting flyers.
So you need a better pellet?
Or you have to sort the rest of your life to make your Marauder work. Well if so bummer for you.
GF1,
Well, if it can put down nice round groups over and over, all the same size,… I would say that “something” is being pretty consistent. I think it is coming down to refining (all) aspects.
As for 5 of 8 landing on top of one another,…. it could have been just pure luck and just where (how) the pellets landed. It is not uncommon to have the first 2 or 3 of a group do the same. I keep my cool and do not get all excited. I just proceed on.
I looked at the crown when I drilled the shroud support. It looked good as well the barrel clean. I may have to give it a re-check. Messing with the crown makes me a bit nervous. I imagine that some are easier to re-do than others depending on the style of crown used.
Chris USA
Yep crowning has to be done right.
I put the barrel in the lathe when I do it. And I op not have like a inch of the barrel sticking out of the chuck. That way more chance of getting the crown centered more true.
But I have not done my Marauder.
GF1—The Bantams are designed for shotguns and have a wide circle around the cross hair intersection . This helps me get on target quickly. The field of view is wide enough at 10 m (for me). The last time that they were for sale, they were $20–. I have 7 Shepherd scopes on my favorite hunting rifles. I have Unertl scopes on my target rifles. I try and fit the scope to the kind of shooting that I will do with that rifle. To my surprise, the low cost Bantams do quite well , for me. I bought my first one (used) at a gun show. I had a Slavia 618 wirh a grooved cylinder. Only one scope ring would fit the short grooved section . A long scope would have too much overhang at each end. The short Bantam fit perfectly, and worked fine. I hope to find more of these scopes at gunshows. I would like to put them on my Red Ryder, and Daisy 99. Ed
Ed
I will have to search them and see what they look like. But if I can only get them at a gun show then that makes them less interesting for me. But thanks for the info about them.
How does one differentiate a long stroke from a short stroke spring piston? Is it a particular length of travel or is it from the angle that the lever is cocked?
Siraniko,
From what I have gathered from past conversations, it is stroke. I do believe the longer the (piston) stroke,.. the more “swept volume” has occurred.
I do get it also from past conversations (reading January 2015 archives now) but is it arbitrary or is there a fixed definition?
Siraniko,
That I am not sure of. I do think that it is a good thing if you want more power or to push a bigger pellet. Perhaps some others will “weigh in” on the topic as I only have a basic understanding of it.
Siraniko
Both kind of.
It is all about the distance the piston moves that determines stroke.
The cocking arm will also show a given amount of travel distance.
Watch the cocking arm closest to where the linkage is attached to the piston. That should tell you the best without taking the gun apart.
Siraniko,
It’s just a relative term — there are no absolutes.
B.B.
A big thank you to Chris USA!!
He gave me a few tips that helped me FINAlly get my chrony set up working. Two plus years on here, and bought the chrony about a year ago. Every time I tried to get it going it wouldn’t read. I would get frustrated because I didn’t have hours to play with it. In fact, I was usually rushing when I only had 30 minutes or so, and that was to set it up indoors.
Shot my first string tonight. JSB 14.35s out of my latest purchase, a Walther LGV in .22. High of 626.32, low of 612.41, average of 620.44. ES of 13.91, SD of 3.46. I even installed Chairgun, so I know that’s 12.26 fpe. Hey, I’m starting to feel like a real air gunner! Ha ha!
Jim M.
Forgot to add — I even found this reference — https://airgunaccuracy.wordpress.com/chairgun-and-scope-height/ — and measured the scope height on my LGV. It’s 1.625″
Jim M.
Jim
Scope height changes your sighting performance drastically.
Mess with scope height and zero distance and you can achieve a pretty narrow kill zone.
But remember Chairgun is a estimate. True world shooting results is what counts. Put some paper out at different distances and change your sight in distance and shoot at the paper again and see what happens. Then change scope height and see what happens. And then different zero in distances.
The whole secret is to match your guns pellet trajectory to the sight in distance and scope height. When you get it right for the range of distance you shoot at you will have a very accurate gun.
Chairgun will definitely teach you a thing or two. I can’t remember how many times I recommended it. I remember I had to say it to Chris multiple times before he finally saw the light.
Oh and if you look at the picture the trajectory of the pellet will go higher than the muzzle if pointed upwards slightly.
So the pellet can rise above the barrel in certain conditions.
And it will rise a whole lot above the muzzle if you point it straight up .
TT
TT
That it will. 🙂
GF1 — Thanks for the advice. I have a couple of questions for you. 1. What “kill zone” size do you try for — 1″?
2. How do you find the ballistic coefficient? Do you use the Hawke app on your phone?
Thanks
Jim M.
Jim
Yep 1″. The longer amount of time the pellet stays in that kill zone the more chance I have hitting my target at different distances with less hold over or under.
Of course though there is always that distance at the end of the pellets flight that drops off drastically. So if I know what distance that starts happening at. I pretty well now I will hit my target if I shoot in at closer distances. I kind of call that my useful range of distance that I can shoot effectively in.
And yes I do have the Hawke Chairgun app on my phone and also the Chairgun program on my laptop. Definitely helps you get closer to the results you want. And I like that it gives you visual idea of what your pellet is flying like. But as always shooting results tell the truth. So many variables that happen in real world shooting verses what the computer thinks is suppose to happen. But I do enjoy messing with the Chairgun program.
Jim
So what did you do?
GF1 — Sorry for the delayed reply. I went and picked up a halogen lamp to bounce off my ceiling. I also set up my rifle in the rest / vice I use when I mount scopes, and lined it all up with the chrony right in front of my pellet trap. I did not have the right lights before, and was too far back from, and shooting too high over the chrony.
Jim
Jim
Good info. Thanks.
Jim M.,
I am glad all turned out well. I know that when I first got mine I was ready to shoot (IT) I was so frustrated. But, using B.B.’s advice and mimicking the set up he uses, like I recommended to you,… all was good
B.B.,
My contemporary Red Ryder is just what anybody would wish it to be, simple. easy, quiet, and, for a BB gun, accurate and inexpensive. It is perhaps my best suburban backyard plinker. It is quiet and accurate at 15- 25 feet. No soda can in my backyard is safe so long as i have my Red Ryder handy. ‘Nuff said.
Michael
Michael
Those Daisy’s do have their time and place don’t they.
I seem to always be just behind the latest part of this blog- I posted to the end of Part 2, unaware there was a Part 3! Anyway, I’m using a modified Red Ryder on a daily basis now that I’ve got it sorted out- and it is a blast!!. Daisy lists the RR as “Max. Muzzle Velocity: 350 fps”, but in reality mine was somewhere around 250fps as delivered. Would only dent a real tin can, nowhere near going all the way through the bottom. After shimming the spring 5/8″ and drilling the air tube ID to 3/32″, it now has no problem putting a BB all the way through the can bottom. But the best part is what the added power does for the useful range. Where before I had to dial in quite a bit of elevation to ‘lob’ BBs to targets past the 20-25 yard range, now I have to remove the elevator entirely to be on target at 24 yards. I will eventually need to either add front sight height or deepen the rear notch to get adjustability back into the sights. Details are at the end of Part 2 for anyone interested in the gory details.
Cobalt327,
Thanks for all your posts on the Daisy mods, here and elsewhere.
I note you give “before” MV of your RR at +/- 250 fps.
Do you have an “after” MV figure for us?
My best guesstimate is “over 300 fps”. I was given a link to a method that uses a audio editing program that will potentially give accurate results. I have the program loaded but haven’t sorted out the rest just yet but when I do, I’ll post the results.
On a related note, a formula to find the spring rate says the new type RR spring is 15 in/lb. Less than I thought. Same formula says the early type ‘removable shot tube’ Model 104 spring was even less. I’m playing w/some ideas on making a spring rate measuring tool to check them myself.
Conversationally assuming your “after” MV is 350 fps, ands also assuming Daisy’s claim of a max of 350 is valid, …then your mods have brought your sub-par “before” figure of 250 up to the design max of 350.
My curiosity raises this question – What might your mods add to a cherry-picked newer factory rifle which is already performing at the 350fps “Max”? Maybe 400+?
First, I *seriously* doubt there’s a factory Red Ryder/105/other Daisy BB gun that uses the same powerplant that will do 350 fps in its original configuration. And I’m a bit miffed at Daisy for using what almost amounts to deceptive advertising.
Seeing as how there are physical laws at work, on these Daisy BB guns we can assume that adding preload to whatever spring a particular gun is equipped with, along w/opening up the air tube to allow for less restriction/faster application of the compressed air to the BB, will increase the velocity. That said, variations in manufacturing and running changes made by the factory may lessen the effect of some mods- like to the air tube. If some air tubes were made w/an ‘oversized’ ID, increasing the ID to 3/32″ wouldn’t have as much effect as it would on an air tube having a smaller ID. .
I’d like to come up w/a correlation between spring rate and velocity, but at this stage I’ve yet to try out the idea I mentioned earlier on using a audio program to measure velocity. I also need to look more to see if there’s existing info on Daisy factory spring rates. And I need to concoct a spring rate measurement tool to quantify what adding preload to the spring actually does.
Sorry- to answer the question of how much increase will be seen, I’d guess that a 20% increase to whatever the baseline was is well within reach. 30% is not out of the question. I’m hesitant to add much more preload at this stage, because the shot tube is only held in place by staking the sheet metal into what passes for the ‘abutment’ built into the shot tube assembly. Too much spring will eventually loosen the shot tube assembly, and if/when that happens, there’s going to be a loss of power and accuracy. I have some ideas on how to overcome this, should it become necessary but truthfully, at that point I’d have to say the point of diminishing returns had been reached.
After reading this blog for ages, I have decided to join in. Hello to B.B. and all of you. My Daisy experience began when I was born and was given a brand new 111-40 Red Ryder copper band Fred Harman carbine. I am looking at it as I write this. The year was 1940 and I got hooked early. Awhile back, you compared the 1894 Daisy to a Walther 499 lever rifle. Except for looks, I don’t think a comparison of the two works. Why would I spend a lot of time and money to collect 14 mint 1894 Daisy Spitten Image carbines over the years?. In my opinion, Cass Hough and the folks at Daisy probably didn’t care about the performance or the competition in 1960. I think they wanted to create a lasting tribute and to add to the one element that was not mentioned in your article. Its called “Legacy”. That drives the collection hobby. Best to you B.B.
M.R.D.,
Welcome to the blog.
B.B.
I THINK I’m waiting for the 4th portion of the RR write-up. The end of the 3rd implied that more was coming, correct? And FWIW, I’ve done some trigger work on my NEW RedRyder that I’ll share soon… —Barrika
Barrika,
Indeed there is a Part 4 coming. That’s when I’m going to mount a scope and test it that way.
B.B.