by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Crosman M1 Carbine BB gun is a classic lookalike airgun.
This report covers:
- The test
- Daisy BBs
- Hornady Black Diamond BBs
- Accuracy spoiler
- Air Venturi Steel BBs
- H&N Smart Shot BBs
- Hornady Black Diamond BBs
This is accuracy day for the Crosman M1 Carbine BB gun we are testing. I have tested this BB gun several times in the past, so I have a pretty good idea of what it can do, but there is always the hope that a new BB that hasn’t been tried will surprise us.
I shot from 5 meters (16 feet 4 inches) using a UTG monopod rest to steady the gun. I was seated for this.
I have tested Daisy BBs in this gun several times in the past, so I didn’t test them again. The last time I tested them at 5 meters, I put 10 into 5.148-inches, with 9 landing in 1.354-inches. I think that one wild shot was a fluke and the 9 shots better represent what this gun will do with this BB. In fact, I learned something in this test that probably explains that wild shot. I’ll tell you about it in a moment.
Hornady Black Diamond BBs
The first BB I shot in this test was the Hornady Black Diamond. My first shot missed the Winchester Target Cube altogether and I wondered what happened. This BB gun was never that inaccurate!
When that happened I wondered what went wrong. Was the front sight loose? Hello — what’s this? The entire barrel is loose and rotates on its axis! The front sight flops side-to-side about a third of an inch. That could explain a lot of things, including that one wide shot with the Daisy BBs I just mentioned. I knew I had to do something about it if I was going to get any accuracy from the gun.
After discovering that, I purposely rotated the barrel all the way to the right after the gun was cocked each time. That should at least give some consistency.
I loaded another Black Diamond BB (to get back to 10 in the magazine) and shot four times. From the sound I could tell I was hitting the target cube, but where was not obvious. So I walked to the target and saw 4 holes inside the black bull! Okay, that works! The final group is larger, but still not bad for this gun.
Ten Black Diamond BBs went into 1.701-inches at 5 meters. Nine are in 1.133-inches, so not much different than the Daisys.
Ten Hornady Black Diamond BBs went into 1.701-inches at 5 meters, with 9 in 1.133-inches.
Air Venturi Steel BBs
The next BB I tested was the Air Venturi steel BB They were not as accurate as the Hornadys. Ten went into 2.357-inches at 5 meters, and you can see that the group is much more open.
Ten Air Venturi Steel BBs went into 2.357-inches at 5 meters.
H&N Smart Shot BBs
The last BB I tested was the copper-plated lead H&N Smart Shot lead BB. One reader asked about them and wondered if they would feed through the M1 Carbine magazine, since it doesn’t have a magnet. I thought they would, but this was the first time I have tried to shoot them in this gun.
They feed perfectly! You can hear they are going out a little slower, but the M1 Carbine has enough power for them. Ten went into 1.886-inches at 5 meters, with 9 going into 1.212-inches. That’s not good enough to justify the additional expense, in my book.
Ten Smart Shot lead BBs went into 1.886-inches at 5 meters. Nine of them are in 1.212-inches.
Well, this M1 Carbine has not mysteriously grown more accurate over the years. It has maintained its power, which is good, and the coolness quotient is off the chart! I still regard it as a special BB gun that I enjoy more for what it copies than how well it shoots. But these guns will all be different, so nothing says that another one can’t be more accurate.
I will say that at the Findlay show I attended last Saturday, I was surprised to see asking prices for these guns have risen in past few years. Guns with magazines that used to fetch $90 are now being offered for $150. And I saw a ridiculous price, as well — over $500 for a gun with a Croswood stock! I didn’t see any wood-stocked Carbines at the show, but there probably was at least one. If the plastic-stocked gun goes for $150, the wood-stocked one should fetch about $250. My own gun is in good condition with a lot of finish wear, but it also has the original box that ought to command a premium.
This is not a BB gun you buy to shoot targets. It’s meant for fun, and will hit a soda can if it isn’t too far away. This gun is nice because of the M1 Carbine that it replicates so well.
81 thoughts on “Crosman’s M1 Carbine BB gun: Part 3”
I think the M1 would be a fantastic rifle to replicated now with a CO2 powerplant. If a new replica was made as accurately as many of the latest models I might not even bother trying to get myself a real one! A wood stock, true semiautomatic action and shooting .177 pellets would be perfect but I would probably give in to temptation and buy one with a plastic stock built on the 1077 action just because the M1 carbine is such a classic looking rifle with a lot of history behind it. The strange thing is that I kind of think of my main interest area in airguns being high quality match rifles and 10 meter target shooting but over the years I’ve built up a small collection of BB firing replicas too! There’s just something I find irresistible about them when they get close to the real thing in looks and action. I’m pretty sure the MP40 is going to find a spot in my home when it comes out too.
I would love to see a pcp version made based on the new Wildfire. I just love the Wildfire I have. And that would be cool as heck seeing the M1 furniture on it.
Maybe Crosman will read and hear us. I hope so anyway.
Interesting. I would have thought that barrel would have a key way of sorts to minimize/eliminate the rotational issue.
The accuracy was something else. Many people have an affinity for this model that I do not share. On the other hand, it is the 1894 Spittin’ Image Lever Action that I lust after. Each to their own. Both replicas. Both childhood “toys”. Then I thought to myself, how well did the 1894 stack up? B.B.’s blog to the rescue! 🙂
M1, 370 fps., 1.3″, 1.1″, 2.4″, 1.2″
1894, 300 fps., 1.3″, 1.4″, 1.2″
Mmmm? That got to me thinking,.. do I really want a reissued replica? Do I want them to reissue the (exact same) thing? Same accuracy? Same power? A barrel that still rotates? I pretty quickly arrived at a NO answer.
I would rather see reissues that are retooled with all of the benefits that modern air gun technology now allow. More power and better accuracy. So in the end, for (me), the take away was,… be careful what I wish for. 😉
Did a quick check and there is an Airsoft version (KA) of this carbine available. Wood stock and metal. A little costly but claims to shoot Airsoft BBs around 450FPS using CO2 .. in the mag and has blowback action. The mag is a little wider than a stock one but looks just fine as it copies the look. Almost like a double stacked mag.
Hopefully they may one day offer a .177 version.
Then there is the plastic Airsoft spring powered one that looks fine but may have to work hard to punch a hole in stiff target paper.
It sounds like something is worn out. I would find it difficult to believe Crosman would send out new guns that the barrel would rotate like that, however with the way these operate I can see where any guides and such could quickly become worn, most especially with how many of them were cocked by using your body weight to shove the gun down on the barrel.
It’s not the historical classic that the M1 is, but for those not aware of it check out the Daisy / Winchester M14 replica. Some don’t like the plastic stock but it shoots BBs and pellets and is moderately accurate:
I agree with HiveSeeker. I have 2 Daisy-Winchester M 14,s. I just installed the PA scope mount ( and an old tasco 2,5 X scope ) on one . It rivals t my 10-77,s in accuracy. I think that this rifle could be re-made into an M1 carbine replica rather than the 10/77. ——Ed
Ed and Hiveseeker,
I agree. The success of the Winchester/Daisy M14 demonstrates that both two 12 gr. CO2 cartridges and an end-for-end 16 round magazine will work in one of these. Use the same kind of wood0-grain plastic that is used with the Gletcher Mosin Nagants, and this would be a winner and, I think, a very big seller. Price-wise what I am describing should probably be priced halfway between the full-size Gletcher and the Winchester M14.
Ed and Hiveseeker,
If ASG or Umarex decided to come out with a BB gun version of the M2, I’d be up for that! :^) It would be a tough choice for me between that and an MP40 (if that is ever going to be released).
What a revelation! This weekend I must check out the barrel on my Crosman M1 carbine. I wouldn’t be surprised if it rotates like yours. That never occurred to me.
It would be interesting to test a Crosman V-350, which also has the same poppet valve and cocking barrel arrangement.
Did you check the barrel on yours?
I did, and it tweists just like BB’s. I haven’ shot it, except for the one to clear the “round,” which was just out the back door and into the berm at the edge of my backyard. Too many Easter family things for alone time with a beer, a few empties, and four or five dozen BBs.
Actually, this thing is such a pain to cock I do half of ’em with one arm and the other half with the other if I plan to shoot it in the double digits. It is the sort of motion that can cause tennis elbow with me, a quick, forceful, jerking motion. If it ends up being significantly more accurate than I remember (and that might have been back when I used mostly Copperheads, so it might be a LOT more accurate with Daisy Premiums plus returning the front sight to a default position), then I might have to fashion a padded hard surface to cock it against.
So maybe that is just normal to the design. I wondered if it was from wear.
You will have to give a update on how yours shoots after positioning the rotation on the barrel.
Just love when there’s a simple solution to make something work better.
Interesting about the barrel rotating.
How about will it move up and down and side to side? In other words will the barrel wiggle around also after cocking. If so that’s got to be hurting accuracy as well.
No. It’s solid after cocking.
Ok was wondering.
Up above Bob M’s comment about the .177 and air soft made me remember about those .177 plastic bb’s you got with that one gun. I think it was a pistol made in China??
But maybe this M1 your testing right now would be a good gun to try them in.
You did mention you were going to try them in some guns because people were interested in them. I know I am. I have several different .177 guns I would like to try them in if I could get some.
Someone posted a link of who had them for sale. I believe it was a European company. Nobody has them over here yet if I remember right. And of course I didn’t bookmark the link they provided and can’t remember what gun you was reviewing to look for the link.
Well, I tried moving the barrel band back 1/2″ at a time (.22 Maximus) from it’s stock location,… 10 times.
The best was 3″ back. I shot 4 more groups at that setting and beat anything that I have shot at 30 yards prior!!! 🙂
(mm) 8, 10, 14, 16, 12, (5 shot groups.)
What was crazy was that the groups hopped all around. In one 1/2″ of band movement, the group could go 2″ down, up, left or right. One group went a full 4″ direct right of where I was aiming!!! So yes, moving the band will definitely affect things. And here is something else interesting,.. of all 14 five shot groups,… the spread was 8mm – 24mm at 30 yards,… no matter how far off the aim point they were.
Thanks for the tip. I will re-zero at 37 yards and lock it down. Quite the interesting test to say the least.
Good glad it helped.
And I think on the one where you said it went 4 inches to the right. I think that could of been from maybe having the band rotated a little that way. But maybe not.
The only way to know would be to lock the band down as straight as possible on rotation again. And at that same location. Then see if it repeats that 4 inch move to the right.
But if your like me. Once I find that just right spot. I almost hate to move it since it’s shooting nice.
But again glad it helped. 🙂
Yes, that could have been a factor. When moving the band, I made sure that I was not imparting a twist into the barrel. I loosened, moved band, rested on forearm, tightened barrel screw, flipped over and rest on scope, tightened air tube screw. I started to make sure I was doing that after the 4th. move. The 4th. group was the one that went 4″ to the right. Even after that, the groups still did move quite a bit.
I thought that it was a real testament to the Maximus’s accuracy not to exceed 24 mm.,.. even with the extreme group movement. (30 yds.)
Now I have all of these little set screw marks up and down the air tube and barrel at 1/2″ increments. 🙁 Hey, that is the price of playing around and no regrets. 😉 A black Sharpie will do just fine. Just a heads up for all you kiddies at home that might be pondering the same experimentation. For me, it was worth it.
But ain’t it cool how just the simplest things can make a difference. Makes me say my favorite saying. Simple but effective. That’s what I like. 🙂
And yes that is the only down fall of moving the barrel band is the little set screw marks.
Now you got to try some 50 yard groups and let us no how it does now compared to before.
And I just got to smile again. No project gun. Yeah right. Ain’t it funny what achieving the ultimate accuracy will do to ya. 😉
Let me think for a moment here,…. yup, yup, yup, and,…. yup. 😉
A cut piece of pop/soda can would have worked for having no mar marks from the set screws. That is in hind sight. Still,.. no regrets,.. just a tip for anyone thinking about moving their barrel band on the Maximus in the effort of trying to achieve optimal accuracy/barrel oscillation.
I wonder if that would give true results though.
The aluminum would get gouged and deformed also as you tighten.
I imagine both ways, with or without the soda can shim would make a difference I bet in how hard you tighten the set screw.
And bet the soda can shim might not even fit between the barrel and the band clamp. Or the air resivoir tube and the band for that matter. I’m not by my Maximus right now. So don’t know for sure.
It fits. Just tried it. Pop can cut 3/16″ wide, slipped right in. I would give it a quick, light sanding,.. or other smoothing method,.. just because of the shear marks.
Ok good. But still makes me think the shim could change results.
Heck maybe it would be better accuracy with the shim. Maybe it would asorb some of the oscillations.
See bottom for a new thread.
The plastic BBs were on eBay. The gun B.B. was reviewing was the ASG X9 Classic BB pistol. IIRC the link to the BBs was somewhere in the comment section.
Thanks. I will go back and find it.
If I remember right they were not that exspensive. If not bad on price I will try them for sure.
Here’s a link I found that sells them if anybody is interested in the plastic bb’s. Can’t find nothing in the US. But this place says they will ship to here.
Thanks for posting that link. I’m curious what B.B. will find after he does some testing of these plastic BBs for us. But they might not be for me, because I shoot outdoors at targets too far away for these to reach. We’ll see!
Same here for the outside shooting.
But I’m thinking they will be just as good of groups that BB got with the M1 at the distance he shot at. Maybe even better. I think the added velocity might just help the lower power guns. Especially at indoor distances of 5-15 yards.
I have one of these that I shoot outside regularly out to 15 yards. I would love to get some of those plastic bb’s so I can do some indoor shooting with it. Well and some of my other .177 guns. Here check out the pistol. It’s a blow back action too. Fun gun to shoot.
Squeezed in some shooting today. Re-zero at 37 yds.. Check and note hold over/under at 25, 30 and 50 yds.. Did 32 mm and 34 mm at 50 yds.. 10 shots groups. That was my best prior, but most were a bit worse. So yes, moving the barrel band did help.
I will try to make it out tomorrow,… but weather is looking iffy.
I was wondering if you got it rezeroed and tryed some 50 yard shots.
It’s super nice here today. Sunshine and 83°. But windy as heck. Like 14 mph winds and gusts to 23 mph. Not much of a good day for shoot’n or fly’n the RC planes. Just kind of relaxing today. But have been doing some can plinking with the Wildfire.
And it sounds like it did get you more consistent out at 50 from what you just said.
Maybe the 18 grain JSB’s are worth trying again. And come to think about it. Maybe moving the barrel band location needs changed for different weight pellets. Or maybe there is a range of different weight pellets that work in a certain barrel oscillation. Or maybe the barrel needs tuned for different weight pellets. Now that’s something I did not try. Maybe that’s something to look into also.
Well that was alot of maybe’s. 🙂
My “maybe’s” are done. 15.89’s and that is it. The possibilities are endless when you start to switch things. I did trim the trigger a bit more, and will do a bit more. The trigger is perfect. The stop is quick, but I think I will make it a bit quicker. 1/8 – 1/4 turn?
Out of about 60 shots,.. I did have 2 “hang up” and landed about 2″ low. Not an overfill issue. The report,.. and the landing,.. gave it away. Any ideas?
60 shots? On one fill? You didn’t say anything about end fill pressure. But if 60 shots on one fill that could make for the low poi and sound difference.
If that wasn’t the reason then I would off the top of my head say loose fitting pellets.
No. I held it to 20 shots per fill. Even at that, the 4 part (green) section of the gauge was only reading 3/4 each time after 20 shots. More shooting will tell.
Yep no tell’n.
Only 2 out of 60. I would say that is pretty good. Flyers will happen you know.
The change in report and drop in poi happens with my Disco also. It’s caused by pressure pushing back on bolt, causing the handle to flip up and allowing a little air to escape past O- ring on bolt. B.B. said that was not uncommon in some single-shot bolt action style pcps. It seems to occur more often as you shoot into the lower pressures of 2nd and 3rd strings. I just wrap a wide rubber band around the trigger guard and loop it over the bolt handle when I shoot. That seems to take care of the issue.
Yes, I noticed that the handle/bolt was unusually loose after I first got it. I did not like that either and did notice it moving some after a shot,… mainly up. I am not sure if it ever came up and back. I fixed it though.
How? I used a piece of black rubber automotive tubing, 1/4″ ID. Remove the handle, it unscrews, cut tubing a little long, reinstall handle. The tubing “compression” will ride on the receiver and supply enough “tension” that the bolt will stay down when firing. Works real good and the tubing provides some finger cushion over that thin area of the handle. You may have to play with the length a bit to achieve the “feel” you want. No more rubber bands! 😉
As for the “hang shots”,… it almost acted like dirt in the valve or the valve sticking, or,… something to that effect. I will pay extra close attention to the bolt next time as well as anything else.
Read my comment to Bruce.
But why it doesn’t affect the shot poi when the bolt rises is because the bolt does not go back. It only lifts and not enough to allow it to go back. From what I seen anyway. And I did verify on my Maximus with the tissue trick when firing the gun. Absolutely no air blowing the tissue and that was with the bolt handle rising and falling.
The bolt has to go back to make the o-ring on the bolt loose it’s seat in the chamfer or lead in on the barrel.
My Maximus and Discovery’s I have and have do the bolt rise also.
Can’t remember about the Discovery’s if it changed poi. Had them some time back.
But I can for sure say I don’t get poi drop from the bolt on my Maximus when it rises. Not even a little drop on poi.
My Maximus will make a very gradual drop on poi once it gets to low on the end fill though. But definitely no abrupt drops like Chris mentioned.
Read below my response to Chris. I think he might be right about a mod I did to mine. But not because of poi drop but to help make my Maximus cock easier. Chris may be right that the striker might be hanging up a bit.
See bottom for a new thread.
A good article(s) B.B. I enjoyed it and even learned some more from it. A fun gun the M1. That in itself is enough justification to exist. The first one of these V-350/M1 guns I found I almost passed up because I assumed it would be wimpy (push barrel) and the fact the stock had fewer curves than an economy stud at Lowe’s. I was wrong as the velocity was 335 ft/sec which puts my Red Ryder to shame. I also seem to remember one with a lighter color plastic stock which I sold but my memory is like a politician – not to be trusted without video evidence. I currently have 3 M1s and, coincidently, 3 V-350s and I can tell you that all have some barrel rotation including one (plastic) which is new in the box. Both plastic ones are a dark almost chocolate color whereas the wooden one is quite a bit lighter. The wood stock is my favorite but B.B. is correct, the wooden stock is less “curvy” than the plastic. When I put the plastic up against my 1944 M1 carbine the stocks are a very close match for shape and the plastic is a much better match for color than the wooden one. One caveat, the real gun was loaned to S. Korea for a number of years and for all I know they oiled the stock or even rubbed Kimchi on it but it isn’t far out of line with others I’ve seen. If you come across one of these at a decent price you will probably enjoy it but be aware that the magazines are difficult to find and can bring $50 or more and the replica one is not the same. I keep one of these in my shop to plink with when I need a frustration break.
Is the “new in box” plastic M1 also a dark, chocolate color, or is it a lighter, light brown color?
Michael: It is the dark color. I bought it in 98 from Ron Sauls so I don’t have an original invoice to point to date of manufacture. The other plastic one is the same color and I bought it at a gun show in 2013 so it has no history whatsoever. I think the other one I sold was a lighter color but I have no pics so I am probably wrong.
This series of articles got me looking into finding and purchasing one of these. I finally found the one I was looking for and made the purchase. I purchased a Generation 1 with the wooden stock and the magazine has the original pink sticker on it. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it’s in working order and it’s firing at least near it’s full power. I never had a gun which worked like this so it’s going to be interesting for sure. Can’t wait to get my hands on it.
On the (above) conversation pertaining to the low powered shots/lower POI,…. You mentioned doing something to the hammer/hammer spring area when you had it apart one time here recently. You mentioned something about some wear,.. or something. Is that something that could cause the hammer/hammer spring to “hang up” when firing and causing a lower powered shot?,… due to the hammer travel being interrupted and now giving full impact to the valve?
Ooopppps,… toward the end,… and (now) giving full impact to the valve. Should read “not”.
Come to think about it that could be possible from the striker.
I polished the bolt and striker and back half of the breech and air tube the striker rides in. Then added a few drops or so of the RWS silicone oil to the bolt and striker. I did it to help make my Maximus cock easier though.
But thinking about that it could be from the striker not traveling free when the trigger is pulled. It wouldn’t be from the bolt hanging though the bolt just pulls the striker back with that little pin sticking out of the striker. Then the bolt is closed after the pellets loaded. The striker is being held back by the sear.
So thinking about this it could very well be the striker not traveling freely when the sear releases. And that might also cause the striker to not hit the valve stem square. And that could possibly cock the valve stem sideways a bit. That could also be a part of it also for the low pressure shot.
Well looks like you got a couple more maybe’s happening you got to take care of. 🙂 😉
Thanks for the insight,….. I think. 😉 I will shoot it some more and keep an eye on it. If the issue crops up again and/or increases in frequency,… I will be “going in” as they say. Hard to say what that area is like. It could be bone dry, all gooped up, or something in between.
Every 2240, 1720, 1322/77, Marauder rifle and pistol, Discovery’s and now the Maximus have been bone dry on the striker and the bolt.
I don’t like grease or anything thick on mine. I think that makes them sticky and not smooth.
I like the thin RWS silicone oil. It keeps them sliding smooth. And you don’t need to take apart to lube if you don’t want. You know that pin I mentioned that sticks out of the striker that the back of the bolt catch’s on. Well you can put some drops right on and around it. That will get down into the striker and will lube the bolt also. And remember to get the striker out you have to remove the barrel and breech because of the pin sticking out of the striker.
Oh and read my comment I made above to BBB/Bruce about the bolt rise. Let me know what you think.
Yes, the comment makes sense. That is good that it’s dry. Some light chamber oil should do the trick then. I will look at it later today, as today is rain on and off,… mostly on.
Yep same here with the rain.
Let me know if yo try it today.
Also read my comment above about the tissue test on my Maximus with the bolt handle rise.
Chris and GF 1-
With the Disco, at least, the report will be a much louder “pop” and the poi will be a couple inches lower than the rest of the group. One time when it happened I just happened to be shooting over the chrony and the velocity for that shot was almost 200 fps slower. The bolt had moved back a small fraction of an inch and allowed air loss around the bolt O-ring. The following shots were back to normal velocity and poi. Even with new o-ring it will still do it once in a while but not too often.
So on yours it kicked the bolt back actually too? If so yes that would make a difference.
But one important thing Chris did not mention is if the sound got louder or quieter.
If it got louder then I would say that would be like what your describing. If the report got quieter I would say that what I mentioned about the striker could of happened.
But also remember if it’s a loose fitting pellet because of dimensions being undersize will throw the pellet in a different direction. And change the sound of the report.
And that’s another thing Chris did not mention. Where the sound change came from. The breech area or the muzzle end.
Anyway something to think about either way when something changes when shooting.
What did I mention? 🙂 The sound at muzzle was less, the recoil was less, the POI was lower. I had been shooting quite awhile and was into a bit of a rhythm. When it happened, I did not check to see if the bolt had risen. I kind of doubt with the rubber tubing on the handle. That is what made me think that it was valve related,.. and now (maybe) hammer/striker related. I was doing the 15.89 JSB’s,.. so I did not suspect pellet variation,.. not that extreme anyways.
Like I said, next time out, I will pay particular attention to all things.
How many times can you remember that any JSB threw a shot low like that? I can not remember one time. Let alone a lower report.
Well from what your describing it sounds like what we was talking about with the striker.
And no the JSB’s usually don’t throw flyers like that. But I have found an occasional way undersize pellet that was sloppy loose in the barrel on my spring guns. But usually if you get one a little undersize that still loads but fills loose. It will usually make a louder sound when fired from the blast blowing by the pellet.
And read below my response about the test I just did again about pulling the bolt back and shooting with the tissue layed over the bolt and breech.
Notice what I mention about how my bolt o-ring feels to the barrel. Particularly about how soon it engages the barrel.
I just did the tissue test once again. But this time a little differently.
I loaded the pellet and closed the bolt. Then lifted the handle and pulled it back a hair and shot and watched for the tissue to move. I kept doing that. On my gun I had the bolt back almost a 1/16″ before the tissue bumped.
And want to mention. When I push my bolt forward with out a pellet loaded I can feel the o-ring engage the barrel before I’m even forward enough to lower the bolt.
Sounds to me like your o-ring on the bolt needs replaced.
The O-Ring on the bolt is fine. Just gave it a quick 360* spin with a chop stick and a good flashlight.
We will see how it goes next time out. You know me,… I am not afraid to tear into something. Needed,.. or not needed. I am just going to let this one ride a bit.
And yes, the bathroom tissue test is a good test. If you have anything blowing by a bolt/breech ID or OD O-Ring,… that will show it for sure.
That’s a good way to see if there’s any scratches or cuts and flat spots from wear.
But what I’m getting at is how much the o-ring engages into the lead in chamfer on the barrel.
You do know that the barrel can be moved back some to allow the bolt o-ring to seat harder. The hole in the breech does allow for some movement before the transfer port orifice will contact the breech.
I have seen them assembled from the factory where the barrel set screw can be loosened and the barrel pushed back harder into the bolt.
Hmm maybe that’s why mine was a good shooter out of the box. Because the o-ring is seating tight.
Like I said. I can pull my bolt back almost a 1/16″ before I can see the tissue bumped a little.
Let me know how far back yours is before the o-ring starts touching the barrel. Don’t load a pellet though. You won’t be able to feel it right when the o-ring contacts the barrel. And you don’t need to do the tissue when you dry fire it. I just want to know when you’re contacts.
O-Ring contact and then about another 1/16″ forward for the bolt handle to drop. I did some chamber oil on the O-Ring, bolt and hammer/striker. The hammer/striker can be accessed with that hole in the back of the cap, and how you mentioned..
I have talked to a couple different people that have the same thing happen with their Disco’s also. I have replaced the o-ring on bolt several times(I have put about 18,000 rounds thru it in last 1 1/2 yrs) and it will still do it with a new,freshly oiled , o-ring. It might only happen once in a 1,000 shots, but it will still do it. The report is a loud pop at the breech. I can live with it but will try the tubing fix that Chris mentioned. It will probably look better than my rubber band!
Read what I just wrote to Chris about the barrel location in the breech. Maybe that’s what you have going on.
I seen that happen way to many times throughout time.
The o-ring should contact the barrel before you can make the bolt handle go down. In otherwards some forward push after it touches before you can make the bolt go down.
Bruce and Chris
Think about this also. However thick that peice of rubber tube you put on the bolt handle is.
That’s how much the bolt will pull back and in seat the o-ring preload on the barrel. To a extent.
I think that is probably not the right way to go.
And suppose to say unseat not (in seat).
Try it. It works real nice and is way better than nothing. It only contacts the outside of the receiver,.. so it is only providing some resistance to movement. That is all. Nothing to do with how far the bolt will/or will not travel. Try it.
Ok first off how thick is the tubing if you take a caliper to it?
How wide is the spot in the breech that your bolt handle goes in like when the bolt is down?
What is the diameter of the bolt handle?
Without your tubing or whatever it is you have on the bolt handle do you have any forward or backwards play the bolt can move in the place it goes when down?
The tubing is like gas line tubing. .407″ OD. It does not enter into the slot that the bolt handle rides in. The handle does not move fore or aft with the tubing. It provides perfect tension. Heck,… you could use a spring and accomplish the same thing,.. except that receiver would get all scratched up.
Ok so it does not affect the way the handle drops in the breech slot. I thought you had it in that slot. Even if something went in the slot I guess it would try to center the handle in the slot and help hold it from lifting.
And one more question that I asked already. Guess you missed it.
When your bolt o-ring touches the barrel.
How much more forward do you need to push the bolt before it will drop in the breech slot?
There needs to be preload on the o-ring after it contacts the barrel.
The barrel can be moved back some to help that.
And never mind the question. Must of missed it.
You said yours has the 1/16″ contact also.
To many posts going on. Not keeping up on them. 🙁
Well !!!!,… glad we have all of that sorted out! 😉 I was going to pop off a few shots,.. but now my brain is “shot” after all of that. I will keep you posted. The 10 day forecast is not looking good for next weekend. We shall see. At any rate, it is set up as a “grab and go”. I even got all that “fancy” holdover and under stuff figured out. 😉 Also, made a little plastic tab on the side of the receiver for 25, 30, 37 and 50 HO/HU. A real no brainer. I do need to remember to give it about a 3/8″ hold off to the left at 50 though.
Yep on all.
I usually take a peice of masking tape and stick it on the side of the scope eye peice with my hold written down for different distances.
And haven’t even checked next week’s forecast yet. Today actually turned out pretty nice. Rained at first but stopped. Kind of overcast but dead calm out. They said it was going to be windy again but it wasn’t. So was happy about that. Made a day of shooting out of it since its back to work tomorrow.
Wow missed that. 3/8″ hold off to the left. Was it windy?
If not sounds like the barrel band needs rotated to the left some. That will help poi stay more true at different distances if you get it balanced out right.
Of course you have to resight after you adjust the barrel band.
I have had that happen before. And the farther out you get it’s off like you said. But get it balanced out and it might have the poi just a hair to the right in at closer distances and just a hair to the left at a given longer distance. Once you do that you might only be off from one side to the other a 1/8″ of aim point. Which is still good for a 1″ kill zone.
Yes, it was windy off and on. Heck,… since I was getting 32-34 mm. at 50 yards,… 3/8″ is about what it looked like. Center the “group” up a tad more,.. so to speak. For me, that is good to call it that close. And yup on the left and right. That would generally show up more in a poorly mounted scope though.
Whatever, however,… as you have said,.. it is important to know how your gun shoots at different distances, and shoot accordingly. Nothing else will do except shooting it, and taking data. That could be that “yaw” or “yawl” as they call it,… the ever widening outward spiral of a pellet.
Pretty much I say it from the canting of the barrel whenever it happens at different distances.
The yaw as your calling it from the trajectory. It usually shows up as a rise of the pellet along with a side to to side poi change for a given distance. Or a lower impact and side to side movement.
So two different things happening we are talking about. Kind of hard to determine unless you know what your looking for.
And guess I should of explained more.
Basically if the barrel is off to one side more than centered it will act as if your canting the gun more and more as your shooting distance increases.
So that’s another reason to get the barrel centered to the breech where the scope mounts. It would have the same effect as the Burris scope ring inserts in the side to side position of the scope in the rings.
Like I have said in the past. People don’t think anything about it in elevation. But then it’s another story when it happens side to side.
Really it makes a difference if you shoot at different distances. Sighted at a given distance that you shoot at say like a 25 yard competition you wouldn’t notice it. But see what happens if you shoot field target matches.
Yes, it ( the tubing) does look a lot better and is easier on the finger,… not that it was that bad before.
Oh and yaw is the orientation the pellet is flying at.
Not the trajectory path it’s flying at.
As an owner of one of these fun guns I’d like to see the issue with the stocks breaking taken care of. They used to be $7.00 to replace – back then, that was almost half the cost of the gun lol – and now, there’s such a limited supply left of the “Croswood” stocks left that I rarely shoot my old M1 BB gun for fear of breakage. The last few stocks in existence are being sold for upwards of $109.00! As a professional designer. I’ve been looking at redesigning this gun to produce a fully functioning pellet and BB model or make it also in .22 cal and make it semi auto like the real thing. I don’t have the machine shop to build my design, but I hope to come up with a solution to a new M1 airgun. Not so much for myself, but for my Brother who also had one (it’s in pieces here at my house due to that broken stock issue) and he’s not doing so well health wise and something like this would really pick up his spirits and I hope to do that for him. He’d be the recipient of serial number 0000001 with special markings or something. SO, perhaps I can get one designed and have it on the market. Wish me luck! Thanks!