What is it about old guns?

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • I like old airguns
  • Garand
  • Peabody
  • What about old airguns?
  • Hakim
  • Falke 90
  • FWB 124
  • Summary

Today I am writing about something that moves me as a shooter and as a writer — old guns. Because this is an airgun blog I will talk about old airguns, too, but even old firearms really get me excited. Why is that?

I like old airguns

I have been holding off on a special blog series about a Webley Mark VI pellet revolver with a battlefield finish that I have had on order since June. See — BB has to wait, just like everybody else. This revolver also comes in a plain blue finish and a silver finish that I guess passes for nickel, but it’s the battlefield finish that I want. Guns with the two other finishes are in stock and have been for months — only the battlefield finish is backordered. Why is that? Why is it that more people want something that looks worn and used, rather than something brand new and pristine?

Several months ago I showed you a target that was shot by a Webley Mark VI firearm. The point of that blog was that bullets that fit the bore of the gun are more accurate than bullets that don’t fit. Seems obvious, but until you see it for yourself it escapes most people. If the caliber is .45 they think any .45 bullet will work.

Webley
This .455 Webley Mark VI firearm was made in 1916 for WW I. As you can see, it has an original “battlefield finish.”

Webley target
That worn revolver put 10 bullets into this group at 15 yards.

The point of that report was that bullets that fit the bore are more accurate than bullets that don’t fit, but a second point that was never stated was sometimes tired-looking old guns can be accurate! In fact it has been my pleasure to own a number of tired old firearms and airguns that could all outshoot me.

Garand

Let’s first consider the M1 Garand. I have owned 5 of them over the years and all have been extremely reliable. Most were also quite accurate. Not MOA accurate, but Minute of Bad Guy accurate.

Garand
My old M1 Garand is another example of an old gun that can shoot!

Peabody

Another fine old rifle I had was an 1867 Peabody. It was chambered for .45/70 and with care and good handloads it was accurate. The Peabody was an American rifle that the Swiss modified to make their famous Martini Peabody that became famous around the world.

Peabody Otho
The Peabody rifle was accurate. It was the forerunner of the Swiss Martini Peabody that is known around the world.

Peabody cartridge
The Peabody fires the .45/70 cartridge on top. Below is a .45 ACP from a 1911 pistol.

Peabody group
At 50 yards the Peabody rifle could put them in there!

What about old airguns?

RidgeRunner, get ready to mount your high horse, because this one’s for you. Old airguns are just as pleasant as old firearms. Over the years I have shown you plenty of vintage airguns that could shoot up a storm!

Hakim

I’ll never forget the first Hakim air rifle I ever owned. It looked like it had been set on fire and put out with a hatchet, but boy, could it shoot! I have owned close to 20 of those old Egyptian air rifles since then and they all shot about as good. My current Hakim is one I bought at the Findlay show many years ago. It’s in a custom walnut stock that’s so pretty I probably will hold onto it.

Hakim
My current Hakim air rifle has a gorgeous walnut stock.

Falke 90

And who can forget the super-rare Falke 90 I “bought” at the old Roanoke airgun show. I put the word bought in quotes because this rifle was thrust on me by the seller. He wanted to see what I could do with it.

When I got it, the stock was broken and initials were carved into the forearm. And the gun didn’t work. Former reader Vince fixed the action in a guest blog and got it working again and then I spent the money to have the original stock restored. It turned from an ugly duckling into an elegant swan.

Falke 90 left
As I bought it, the Falke 90 stock was dark and broken in places.

Falke 90 initials
The forearm on both sides of the stock had initials carved into the wood.

Falke 90 restored
After restoration the initials were gone, the checkering was redone and all the breaks were repaired.

You can read the whole story of this rifle in one report. And, in Part 1 of that report, there is a link to the first test report where I got the rifle and had if repaired. There are other links in those reports to the repairs that Vince did, plus the story of the rifle’s purchase, so that’s an entire lesson of its own.

FWB 124

If that doesn’t convince you that I like old airguns, there is the record 15-part report I did on the FWB 124. Those 15 reports took me about a year to publish, and they were not the only articles I have done on the 124. There is also a 5-part report I did on the 124 I bought at the Findlay show. And that one isn’t even all I have written. There is another handful of articles I have written about the 124 over the 13+ years this blog has been published. So it’s clear that I like the airgun!

But here is the deal. The most powerful 124 I ever tuned was not one I owned but one I did for my buddy Mac. It turns out that 124s often have a tapered compression chamber that prevents them from being as hot as their design would seem to support. And I don’t care! I like them for how they shoot — plastic triggers and all! I once owned the beautiful Queen Bee 124 that was initially made for Mrs. Beeman, and even though it was finely tuned, as well as dro-dead gorgeous, I like the one I have now even better. It has the original open sights and that’s the way I like it set up!

Summary

People will tell you that they like the wood and steel of the old airguns, but I think it’s a lot more than that. You can get wood and steel in a TX 200 MkIII today — and you should if you like classic air rifles. The point is — my liking older airguns and firearms is a lot more than how they are made. In some cases it’s about where they might have been, like the Webley Mark VI revolver and the Peabody rifle. In some cases it’s what they are — like the Hakim. And in some cases, it’s for many different reasons that I don’t have the words for — like the 124 (I like the way it shoots, the ease of cocking, the accuracy, the smoothness after it’s tuned etc.). I guess I just like old guns.

191 thoughts on “What is it about old guns?

  1. B.B.,

    I like old guns because they take me back as a kid to imagine the lives they have had, turning them into adventures. A new gun is relatively sterile with no story to tell. It’s a blank slate. With an old gun every ding and scratch probably has a story behind it. Why else would people be looking for objects with patina?

    Siraniko


    • “With an old gun every ding and scratch probably has a story behind it”

      Yes, Siraniko, exactly; these old guns are like time machines…if only they could speak.
      This first Walther PPK I bought is a pre-WWII model; it might have been carried in that war by a French Resistance fighter or one of the OSS boys. Yes, it’s got wear and pitting on the outside, but the bore is pristine and it shoots great, to point-of-aim of its fixed sights…a real piece of old world craftsmanship.

      And my .22 Crosman 130 has some nicks and scrapes, but they add to its charm. At 5 pumps, it’s a nice 300 fps closer-range plinker; but at 10 pumps it gets 385 fps and 4.4 fpe…not bad for a 60-year-old air pistol. I wish I knew its full history; but the gent I bought it from said he acquired it at an estate sale, and that a friend of his from the UK who “knew a bit about airguns” had restored it. I called him after I’d chronographed it, and told him his friend had done well.

      I like new guns, too; but old guns…they’ve got class. =>


  2. BB
    I studied the stock on the Queen Bee to figure why it stands out as such a beauty.
    The lines are gracefully smooth and flow together. The forearm looks slightly tapered down its entire length with a smooth round finish at its end. The grip area is slim, lengthy and not steep like a pistol grip and the cheek rise line is a continuation of the top of the stocks upper grip line with a gradual contour down the stock with a flawless finish. A long and slender look with sharply defined lines. I guess you could use the word exquisite. Truly something to be proud of.

    It’s the old hand made craftmanship that is lacking today that make these look so fine, not the quick money return.

    BB, if I were you I would get the blue Webley Mark VI and weather it myself. Just look at pics or a real weathered revolver and pay attention to areas that receive the most holster and handling wear. I imagine some very fine steel wool would work just fine. Most weathered pistols I see now seem to miss the target on looking realistic.
    Bob M


    • Bob,

      The thought of weathering the Webley has occurred to me. But I am doing this for someone other than myself, so it has to be the right gun. I have ordered the weathered gun and have been waiting for its arrival. When it gets here I will tell you the whole story in the blog I do.

      B.B.


      • BB,

        Do you really think that the Stressed Webley is back ordered because it is more popular? I would have guessed it was less popular ( if it costs more) and takes more labor to weather it, so fewer are just produced in each run.

        When I was looking to purchase my MP40 BB gun I didn’t even consider paying the extra $20 for the weathered look. Why would I want my brand new gun to look half wore out? Then you brought me to the light with your report on it and I have never regretted it. My replica of an OLD gun is SUPPOSED to look OLD! I know now that it would just look more fake if it was pristine. I always try to pass it off to my less knowledgeable friends as a firearm (they are the ones that would have no idea of the cost and hassle involved in really owning a MP40) and they usually say that the wear and tear on the finish is what sold them on the ruse, until they saw BBs coming out the end. Now I usually go with the weathered version of replicas if it is offered. Old is cool!

        Half



  3. Upon my high horse I ride!

    As anyone who has been hanging out on this blog for any time knows, RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns was established primarily to provide a nice retirement home for antique airguns. I do have a few “modern” airguns and am always happy to have a stray show up for a while, but usually I find a good home to adopt them. Even now I am trying to whittle down my “modern” airgun collection to make room for some other old gal that may need a place to retire.

    Don’t get me wrong, I do like quite a few of the newer air rifles that are coming out. There are two main obstacles to my procuring many of them though. The first one is likely the most obvious and that is finances. I cannot afford all the new toys I would like. Therefore, I am envious of BB. He gets to shoot so many new airguns and firearms for “work” without having to buy them. When he is done with it he sends it back home.

    The primary reason though is what would I do with them all? Let’s face it, unless you are an octopus you can only shoot one at a time. Why should I have a closet full of airguns that I do not have time to shoot?

    What I have found is when I do have time to shoot, I really enjoy grabbing one of the old gals and plink away for a bit. I have a short range set up off my back porch with spinners from 3 ½ inches down to ¾-inch at 10 yards and a target stand at 25 yards. I cannot tell you how pleasurable it is to take an air rifle that was old when I was born and flip that tiny spinner time and again from a standing position with open sights. Many a feral soda can has met its demise with one of these old gals.

    What many do not realize is these old air rifles and pistols were made when most shooters were concerned with accuracy, not power. They were more concerned with putting a .177 pellet through a 3/8-inch hole (that’s 9.525mm for you metric folks) at 7-10 yards than dropping a deer at 500 yards. One of my air rifles dates from 1906 and it is likely more accurate than a modern air rifle of similar power except for a 10-meter competition air rifle.

    Also, the quality and craftsmanship exhibited in these antique airguns is rarely matched with today’s offerings. How many of these new airguns will be not just around, but functioning properly one hundred and sixteen years from now? Very likely my 1906 BSA will be.

    Another bonus for me is I live in a log home and my wife has discovered that these antique airguns fit our décor. She likes my 1906 BSA hanging over the fireplace. Some of you may recall that she conspired last year with BB to buy his Webley Mark II Service air rifle for me for Christmas. I still feel indebted to both for that.

    These antique airguns are not for everyone. Some people must have the latest and greatest. Also, there are those who want or need more power than many of these old gals can give. It is difficult to take a deer with a 6 FPE air rifle. Give me a Girandoni. 😉



      • Dave,

        On the way? It has been here for years now. I bought it at the Roanoke Show at the urging of none other than BB. He is indirectly responsible for me opening RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns with the BSA being the first resident. He is truly The Great Enabler.


    • RR,

      A few years ago at the Pacific Airgun Expo a guy had quite a few Girandoni for sale. Too many in my mind and I did not know enough to tell which was what and the price was high enough to be originals. I did get a very good condition Apache Fire Ball Texan from him though that was a good price. It makes the one I patched together look pretty poor.

      So there are some Girandoni for sale once in a while. I think I would even like a reproduction if it functions well and has similar craftsmanship.

      Don


      • Don,

        There are two guys out in California that borrowed an original Girandoni from a friend and by reverse engineering it built several fully functional reproductions. If you dig about online some you can find out about this and see some of their videos. They have also reproduced some other antique air rifles.

        I myself would actually prefer one of their reproductions because I would be afraid of damaging an original. I am going to want to shoot it.


  4. Yes I like old guns too. One of the things I have the most fun with is when I show up at the 100 meter range with my crusty old Anschutz 54 .22 LR match rifle. And there will be guys with Ar-15 type rifles with scopes etc.

    They laugh.

    ”haha! are you sure that thing will make it to 100 meters?”

    ”Afraid to shoot a REAL gun?”

    When we collect our targets they are usually very quiet, and I have a thin little little smile, all the way home.

    Carel



      • RR,

        You know I agree with you on OLD guns! I got to hold a number of Girandoni pices while in Vienna’s Kunsthistorishes Museum; the armory in that museum is worth a trip all alone.
        Some things however are almost equal to antiques before they leave their makers hands.
        That’s why so many of my airguns are from Dennis A. Quackenbush.
        They will be around long after most all the contemporary airguns made have been scrapped or turned into wallhangers. Not that a fully functional DAQ Airrifle doesn’t hang over my fireplaces from time to time.

        shootski


        • Shootski,

          I would really like to add one of Dennis’ air rifles to my “modern” collection. They are most certainly of high craftsmanship. There is indeed a very good chance that one day others will speak of his airguns as we do of Girandoni.


          • RidgeRunner,

            I truly love to shoot all my DAQs they are certainly the functional equivalent to the Girandoni I have gotten to hold (with white gloves) and all of the money I have spent on DAQs would probably not buy one Girandoni. Dennis builds a hunting piece, some with gorgeous furniture, spectacular hot bluing; but so far he hasn’t chosen to embellish his work with engraving of metal or carving on the wood. It just isn’t his thing and most of the gunsmiths and builders don’t these days. His guns will certainly take the passage of a modicum of care since he is very wise in his choices of material and process.
            I truly like the simplicity of his design(s) and execution. Set up and care of the piece will be a snap for you.

            With how he holds down his MSRP, if you can get one from him direct,
            it will appreciate as soon as you take delivery.
            If you get one I doubt you will be disappointed!
            I’m terribly biased so take everything I say with some Rock Salt!!!

            shootski


            • Shootski,

              LOL! I know of what you speak concerning Dennis’ air rifles. I have met him several times and seen his work up close. If I had the money at the time I could have bought two of his air rifles from him. I sorely regret not doing such.

              His design is solely form follows function. The embellishment is seen in the quality of the work and materials used. This is what I truly enjoy most in many of my airguns.


      • RR
        You got a good saying there. And I seen it on other sights you posted on.

        But heck. Why do I need 500 fpe with a air gun anyway?

        Most air gunners would question why a air gun would need 500 fpe.

        500 fpe would blow through a ground hog so fast that all you would have is s piercing hole on both sides.

        But then that depends on distance.

        Maybe you should add distance into your quote. I’m sure at 50 yards I could hit a object at 50 yards. Well depending on the size of the object.

        See where I’m going. 500 fpe alone might not be the correct statement.

        Other variables come into play also.

        But then again. Even if a gun has 500 fpe but it’s accurate then so what.



          • RR
            True. But come to think about it. Isn’t there a 500 fpe air gun out now that is pretty accurate. The AirForce Texan. Or pretty close to 500 anyway.

            But yep know what you mean about the horsepower wars. That actually bothers me that they list a gun making 1400 fps with light weight pellets. But then again maybe that’s a good thing they list their guns that way. All their doing is advertising to stay away from their products from what I have seen anyway. I guess it’s one of those things where you got to read between the lines.


      • Carel,

        The rest of the world (the “small” portion which is not the U.S.A.) actually does have it tough in some ways! !00 meters. METERS. In the USA 100 yards is considered distance shooting. 100 meters is close to 103 or so yards, yes? Ah, the pampered.. ;^)

        By the way, I still possess the FWB 150 Tyrolean left-handed. It deserves to be shot more.

        Michael


    • My most prized powder burner is a early Us Property marked Mossberg M44US. I made a trade with the owner of the mossberg museum for it. (yes mossberg has a museum) (and he had more than one of this model) and didn’t have any of the model i had. It is the most accurate powderburner rifle i own.

      The serial number puts in the lot that was issued in the first shipment to the Army. Its a military finish, and is really nothing to look at. But it can shoot.

      I like showing up at the range, and picking up the other guys empty rifle hulls, and standing them out at various distances to shoot as targets. Factory peep sights, my best shot is a 30.06 hull at 75 yards, i couldn’t actually see the hull, but was being told where to aim, in relation to the target stand where the shell was sitting (ie. 2 inches right of the left upright.)


  5. Thanks, B.B., for choosing my Christmas present.
    I can have my wife get me a gift certificate from PA,
    then join you on the waiting list for the battlefield finished Webley. =>



    • Dave,

      I often think of acquiring this very same pistol. If I ever decide to own another CO2 “action” pistol, this is the one I would want.

      Now, if someone was to offer me a Gifford at a reasonable price…


      • RidgeRunner,
        The best CO2 pistol I ever had was an OLD Crosman 357, the all-metal one with silver finish and an 8″ brass barrel. That thing was accurate and good for 50 shots on a cylinder.
        I gave it to my grandson, and have been trying to replace it ever since with an equally cool CO2 gun.
        This war finish Webley looks like a good candidate for that. =>
        If you get one before me, please post your thoughts on it.
        take care & have a great Sunday,
        dave


  6. B.B., old guns cost too much money. In the 80’s in Va, there were lots of places to buy old mil surps, K31’s, SKS’s,
    Hakims, Enfields, iver-johnsons. Just heaps of “em, allot for around a hundred bucks. Heck, i could have bought a
    springfield armory M14,with sling cleaning kit and spare mag for $700. I went for the cheaper 1956
    all milled steel SKS $89. Shoulda got the Iver- Johnson tho.Live and learn. But I actually shot my 1377 way more often, untillI broke down for the R-10. Then came the “mighty” P1. Those two air guns were and still are expensive. I coud shoot them in my yard whenever I wanted. The PCP’s were too much money for me then. A Theoben Eliminator was another object of desire i could not afford.
    But, now we have Marauders and Air Venturis to choose from, the sport has improved. I went ahead and put a spring stop guide in the little SnowPeak Bandit pistol,(not an easy task) polished the hammer sear face a bit. yowza! 33% more shots, same power! Thats with .020 gap, I will try a bigger gap, I bet there are 20+ lower power shots in the tiny 50 cc pressure tube. This would be a great pcp for pumpers, you cant get any easier gun to pump up i think. Ditched the iron sights it came with for a 2-7 variable scope too.
    Have a nice day yall, R




  7. B.B.
    I just love that Hakim. I see it as an old Military Rifle. On today’s airguns, I see the Diana Mauser K98 as a modern day classic (probably cause I love old military guns). I also agree that the M1 Garand (and M1 Carbine) are fine old military rifles.

    Doc


  8. B.B.,

    Speaking of old guns. Here is a picture of the Daisy Single Model H my old high school buddy gave me a while back. His grandfather got it new when he was a kid. It shows plenty of use over the years and even some weld to hold the rear sight in place. I wonder if I did the weld when we were kids? I don’t remember, but I vaguely remember welding a Daisy sight at one time when I was young.

    I have not decided whether to do some restoration of just leave it as is. I am pretty sure it will still shoot with not too much effort. Unless the piston seal has dry rot like your Model 12. I doubt it has been oiled for a long long time.

    It is the nickel finish version with much of the finish worn off. The tab that holds the spring on the Hough front sight is broke off. it would be and easy fix with new tab and a little solder. The leather seal on the end of the shot tube is also in bad shape but would be a simple fix. The stock does not show much use but the rest of the gun does.

    Don



      • B.B.,

        Did you find someone to work on these “OLD” Daisy bb guns? I am afraid to do surgery on the old gal. I can do the easy stuff but not sure about heart surgery. Maybe I should fix the shot tube and see if that is enough to get it up to snuff for a few shots. Then I need the old oversize bbs.

        I could buy another Red Ryder to practice on but don’t know how similar they are inside.

        Don


        • Don,

          This is a thread that should be able to help. Cobalt, which use to post here, was into the small lever actions. The guys on this thread seem to know everything about them, even the old ones. Parts swaps, tear downs, mods., what is different from model to model, etc..

          It might be a good start at least. Maybe B.B. knows of a an old Daisy rebuilder too.

          Chris


          • Chris U,

            Thanks for the reminder, I should have remembered Cobalt was into Daisy guns and is a welth of information. I did some searching on the Daisy Talk Forum. It looks like there is some info there that could help. I think I may give the shot tube repair a go and work from there.

            I still have the Red Ryder parts for the 499 velocity upgrade. I was waiting for a rainy day at the cabin to work on it and have not got to it yet.

            Don


            • Don,

              I saw where Cobalt is on both sites. Just ask and you might get a nice tear down tutorial. As I recall, the guys on The High Road were very, (VERY) good on providing pics of what they were doing.

              Best wishes going forwards with your project(s),….. Chris





          • B.B.,

            Ok me too. I don’t know how far I will get but I will take pictures as I go.

            The smoke here has been so bad from the horrific wildfires I have been inside for over a week. We are supposed to get a little rain here next week. Every year the fires have been getting worse. Whole towns have been destroyed in the recent fires.

            While inside I might as well be working on the bb gun.

            Don


            • Don,

              Best wishes on avoiding the fires that seem to (persist) all up and down the state. It makes the regular news,.. even in Ohio. Lack of the (ability) to clear one’s (own) land of fire feeding dead/dying and brush/trees seems to be at issue. Ability?,…. maybe I should say “permission”? The Brazilian Bucked Toothed Ground Squirrel might loose it’s breeding grounds? (totally made up for illustrative purposes). 😉

              Ohio? Recent ice storm. Now raining, 41 degrees. Nice 50′ tree decided it was time to fall over in the yard from ice weight and wind. It will get dealt with when I feel like it and weather permits.

              Prayer’s for those that have lost all,…. Chris


              • Chris U,

                Thanks for your prayers. Years ago there were restrictions in some neighborhoods like Lake Tahoe. For a few years now we have been required to keep a 100 foot perimeter cleared around the structures. It is not followed by many and may not help when the wind is bad. Embers can be blown a long ways. I almost lost a neighbor up at the cabin who was hauling water for the fire trucks. The fire jumped close to a quarter mile and blocked them in. Lost water truck and fire trucks. Luckily two D8 dozers were running from the fire and they were all able to hang on to safety. He said it was worse than when he was blown up in Vietnam.

                The forestery rules will likely be changed and need to be. Much of these fires are in areas that are in poor lumber areas they are covered in chaparral with many non-native plants increacing the fuel mass. The new weather patterns are adding to the increased fire danger. A friend of mine was in charge of a 155 million project in southern california removing trees killed by bark beetles in urban areas that was over 10 years ago. Kate and I cut down over 20 trees this year around our cabin and that was a small percentage of the ones that are dead. It is a very complex issue and there are millions of acres that are high fire risk. And folks are building more and more in high fire risk areas.

                Sorry I put my rant on the blog. We will take all the prayers and help we can get.

                Don


                • Don,

                  “Complex”,.. as you said. On many fronts. 🙁 An all steel encased structure sounds pretty good to me. (think pole building). I would think that it would survive a fast mover.

                  Out West where they have frequent tornado’s,… underground bunkers are common. Maybe not a bad fire survival concept?

                  Chris


                  • Chris U,

                    I have been seriously thinking of burying a small storage container in the hill next to the cabin. For a place to sit out a fire. The road goes downhill from the cabin so if a fire comes up at us there is no way out. It would need a good filtered fresh air system and should work if we can get to it in time.

                    We have a basement but if the house catches on fire the basement would not be any better.

                    Don



                    • Don,

                      Sounds good to me. In flat land,.. a buried concrete (clean/fresh) septic tank would do as well, for a few hours anyways. Concrete won’t rust either.

                      Chris


                    • Guys,

                      Evacuation is the only realistic option. Have good homeowner’s insurance and a plan to get you. your animals, and a few prized items out FAST, and then do it, without hesitation. If your property survives, it will be waiting for you when you return. If it is a pile of ashes, you will not be among the ashes.

                      Don’t forget that the heat and smoke are as much (or more) of an issue than the flames themselves. You would not survive in a container. The inside temp could go from 80 degrees to 180 degrees in ten-twelve seconds (seriously). Wildfires are not like hurricanes, which often can be waited out. Sometimes people and animals are able to survive in a filled, in-ground swimming pool. Many animals are able to find routes to low ground and survive on instinct.

                      As for prevention, here in the Great Lakes States we do controlled burns every summer in wooded areas and prairies to remove brush, dead wood, and prevent carpenter ants.

                      Unfortunately, controlled burns might not be an option in much of CA because of the persistent droughts. We get plenty of rain. With it as dry as it now gets in the West, a burn might not be easy to “control.” More escape roads would help, but other than that, get used to this. It will not stop in the lifetime of anyone here.

                      Michael



  9. A question for everyone?

    So how old in years does a gun need to be to be considered OLD?

    Think about it carefully to avoid a surprise about how old things have become!

    shootski


    • Shootski,

      It all depends on how i feel in the morning. Sometimes 66 doesn’t feel old at all and then sometmes it feels very old.

      Some just look old and some seem to be perpetually young with many moons behind them. Old is not measured in years only.

      Don


      • Benji-Don,

        Good way to view how old changes!
        But what other ways are there to define OLD?
        We seem to have a good start at busting what OLD means in our sport!
        Seems it isn’t just looks since we can WEATHER a gun that just came off the assembly line and some years someone could sell it as NIB (New In Box) so does it need to be an ANTIQUE (over 100 years old)
        even if it is NIB?

        shootski



    • Shootski

      Old is a relative term. You need to ask a more specific question. I have purchased an M1 Carbine without a CA waiting period because it was old enough to be considered a relic. An AR16 A1 was old when it was replaced with the A2. Every time I purchase a new airgun the last one I got becomes old. Everything that has been replaced with a better version is old!

      Now an antique needs to be over a hundred yeas old and in original condition.
      Bob M


      • Bob M,

        Actually all of you are doing very well…so far!
        BB is the one who got me thinking about what OLD means with this blog.
        Becoming OLD is the question; how does that happen?
        It obviously isn’t just the passage of calendar time.
        Just think of NIB “NEW In Box” items!

        shootski


        • Shootski
          Everything becomes old

          It’s how you perceive old.

          It’s how you remember something. It’s about a bunch of different things. It’s about where your at now. Old to someone else might not be old to you or me.

          Time changes things is one thing I know for sure.


        • Shootski
          OK something is always new in ‘condition’ if its never opened or used, but it can also be old in ‘time’ Throwing in a minimum one year period for a gun to be considered ‘old’ is a bit unrealistic.
          Bob M



            • GF1
              If a gun was discontinued it would move into the realm of ‘ things from the past ‘ and technically able to be called old, like you said. Although it would be referring more to the fact that it is a gun no longer made new, not to its age.



                • Shootski,

                  “Old” is indeed a subjective term. Airplanes have been around for only 115 years, so an “old” airplane could be considerably less old than an old umbrella.

                  “Antique” is closer to being an objective term, about 100 years or more. A “collectible” used to be 50 years to 100 years, but if something has genuine desirability to collectors, 25 years is now a benchmark. For example, a 1993 Corvette, especially if it is in fine, low miles condition, an original “numbers car,” and particularly if it is a limited edition of some kind, is certainly a collectible. I remember 1993 as if it were yesterday, but nevertheless . . .

                  Michael


                  • Michael, (from above)

                    Trying to learn here,….. (fire survival). You mean to tell me something like a (buried) septic tank (clean/new) would not be a good shelter? As for clean/breathable air,… I do not know. Mask? Would there be enough oxygen, or would the fire consume the breathable oxygen? How long would you need to be in there? 2 hrs. on a fast moving fire?

                    Like I said, trying to learn. As for insurance,.. I have heard that it is difficult if not impossible to get hurricane insurance in the usually affected states. If you can, I would imagine that it might come at a real premium. Could the same be true in the future for (forest fire) insurance?

                    Chris


                    • Chris,

                      I wasn’t so much commenting on the new septic tank as a shelter option. Air might be an issue, not just air without too much smoke, but air that is cool enough to breathe. Also, much of the terrain there is rocky and might not allow for a large septic system.

                      Evacuation is certain to work. Anything else is a gamble with your life, and for what? If everything you own burns up with you safely 30 miles away, or it burns up three feet above you, it still all burns up.

                      As for homeowners insurance for fires in wildfire zones, I have no idea.

                      Michael


                    • Chris USA,

                      My son lives out west in the mountains and both their main city home and high mountain retreat are located in potential fire risk areas. They have studied the wild fires that friends have experienced and survived…or lost their homes to, but thank God not lives! The first thing is clearing a sizable part the property of fuel and the second is burning ember exclusion. As far as worst case shelter they have CO2 scrubbers and store air cylinders in the sealed shelters as makeup air; it really doesn’t take a great deal of makeup air with the scrubbers. Shelters buried deep enough in the soil will not overheat for hours if not days. Water features overtop of a shelter can provide evaporative cooling and also water to continue to protect your structures (if municiple water/pressure is lost or non-existent) until/if flashover drives you into your shelter. All of this takes initial through study of best practices (for your area and situation) good planning, money and maintenance once features/facilities are in place.
                      The media is not reporting the looting that has occured of intact properties…why?
                      We know it happens every time there is a large scale evacuation of homes/businesses/properties by owners! So if you stay it goes without saying you must be prepared for more than just the fire fighting.

                      shootski





      • Woo-Hoo! Now this is close to my wheelhouse.

        Additionally, although it considers different definitions of “old” than aged, other antonyms include “young,” not to mention “fresh,” “interesting,” “outdated,” “archaic,” “obsolete,” and “passé.” :^)

        Michael


  10. Just a comment about BB’s desire (wait?) for the Webley MkVI pellet revolver in Battlefield finish. I had seen that version on a YouTube review from the UK months before it was available in North America. All ‘we’ had was the BB version in a flat black finish that didn’t excite me a bit. It didn’t look ‘old’ style enough. If you’ve never seen this Battlefield finish it is quite convincing and far more realistic than the ‘weathered’ look airguns. The product picture on the PA website appears much darker than actual. Anyway very nice in my book and the revolver is decently accurate with it’s 6 inch rifled barrel. So best success in your wait BB…you shouldn’t be disappointed.

    I wish we will someday see another ‘old gun’ appear in a pellet version airgun in the form of the Browning Hi-Power (FN). That is one of the most widely used military pistols in history, having been used by the armed forces of over 50 countries for the past 82 years. Sure would be nice up there with the 1911s…P-38s…P-08s…MP-40 to name a few ‘legendary’ firearms that have been ‘reborn’ in airsoft and airgun.

    Cheers!



  11. Measuring group size,…

    Earlier in the week I asked about measuring groups (exactly!) Mike in Atl. posted these 2 links from previous blogs that B.B. did. Reading them for the first time just now,… I can say that they are about as definitive as you could want. There is also other links embedded that delve deeper.

    https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/10/how-shot-groups-are-measured/

    https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/05/how-to-measure-group-size/

    I recommend them (highly) for anyone interested in the topic of measuring.

    B.B.,……. (No need) to do a new article on the topic. You covered it rather well already,… twice, at least! Just keep the 2 links handy for anyone inquiring in the future.

    Thanks,…Chris (thanks also to Mike in Atl. and Shootski for weighing in on the topic when I asked)


    • Chris and Mike in Atl

      Just read your old BB posts on measuring target groups. Good reminders for all. But the question remains what is the best way to determine a gun’s accuracy? A few months ago I played around with the new USA military method which is shooting five 5 shot groups and taking the average (I also record the smallest group size). This method lessens flier distortions that ruin 10 shot groups. We all have seen 9 shots in a neat rounded cluster and 1 shot out in left field caused by ——?

      Deck



    • Hey Chris,

      Nope, just have not had the time to do it. I have not decided on the best design yet either. I am still thinking that a plastic storage tub filled with rubber mulch would be best. The soft plastic would hold the debris inside better than a cardboard box, though after many shots it would still require a duct tape bandage.

      I was in Walmart the other day and saw some styrofoam archery targets for sale for $14.99. I thought hey, that might make a good airgun target backer. The styrofoam was about 30″ x 30″ x 10″ thick, just estimating.

      Haven’t had a chance to shoot any more in my basement because the Urban’s pellets are starting to exit the back of my existing target box with duct seal. That box has worked well for a couple of years.


  12. B.B.,

    I had not check for some time, but see the SIG ASP20 is now available on the PA site. They only show the rifles though, not the kit with scope. Have you heard any updates about when the scope will come out?

    Thanks.

    Jim M.




      • B.B.,

        I’m sure this is a “low priority” item, but if PA could ever add a way for users to edit our own posts on here, that would be fantastic. .

        I posted so quickly earlier that I forgot to add that only the synthetic stock ASP20 is available on the PA site. The beech version still shows as “Pre-order”.

        Jim


        • Jim
          I just made a reply to RidgeRunner above and it gave me a edit option today if you click on it.

          It has a count down of like 3 minutes and 30 seconds or something like that.

          I didn’t try clicking on it yet to see how it works. So kind of cool that it’s there. But I hope they have it set up so nobody else can click on it.



          • GF1,

            Thanks for that info. I’m trying it on this post. I’ll start a timer as soon as I hit “Post”. I used the edit feature frequently on Facebook. Sometimes I catch a mistake just after posting, sometimes I have an additional thought I want to convey in that same message. I like having the option to edit — without some arbitrary time limit — because I think it keeps an exchange “cleaner” than having so many replies added on. I’m just obsessive that way, I guess you could say.

            Jim

            Edit #1 — Wow, something went wrong with this post. When I originally hit, “Post”, I got an error message from the server three times in a row before it went live. Once it did post it showed 4 mins 28 seconds left to edit. The timer is counting down as I type this — 3 mins now as I’m posting.

            Edit #2 – Experiment continues. I hit “Edit” right at the 2 minute mark, and also started my timer to see what happens. The timer on this post is continuing to count down as I type — 1 min 5 secs. now. Interesting.


      • BB
        Good waiting to see how this one turns out.

        And one thing I’m interested in you don’t test is how well a product does long term.

        From what I remember you talking about Sig done some different things when they made the ASP20. The normal test you do will be nice. But long term is another story.

        Hope Sig got it right.


        • GF1,

          From my limited experience handling and shooting this at the TX Airgun Show last June, combined with all the different articles and reviews I have read, I believe that; one, this is a “solid feeling” rifle; and two, I really think SIG engineered a quality piece. I suspect this is going to be a sound, “long term” shooter.

          Jim


      • BB,

        I forbid you from doing a report on this air rifle! I have had great difficulty from not trying to sell of all of my “modern” airguns so as to scrape together the money for this one! Your reporting on it will only make matters worse!

        You are indeed The Great Enabler!


        • RR,

          I have been on a self-induced “diet” as well…..as far as new airgun purchases. I shot the ASP20 quite a bit at the TX Airgun show last summer — the beech version — and have been waiting patiently ever since. In my opinion it is one to add to my collection. I am really interested in reading B.B.’s full report on the scope though. I don’t usually buy scope/rifle combos, but this one might be worth it.

          Jim M. (a minor-league enabler. Ha!)


          • Jim,

            Yeah, I hear you. 😉 That is a big chunk of change for the Sig air rifle AND scope. I am afraid I will have to stay on a diet for quite some time. I myself will probably get the shakes when they finally bring out the synthetic stock version.


  13. [off topic—again]

    Tom, or anyone,

    I just got an Umarex Colt Commander and a spare magazine. Neither magazine holds air longer than a day. This morning my spare mag, which had never been inside the pistol, was also out of air. Does anyone know if this is normal? I’m familiar with CO2 guns and cylinders and have torqued the CO2 cylinders down the way they’re supposed to be. Also, just now loaded BBs but the pistol stays racked open with each shot. Plus, loading BBs is problematic as well: I have to push each BB down with my thumbnail after it’s placed in the loading hole. Both mags have the same problem. What am I doing wrong?

    —JoeB


    • Joe,

      Have you tried putting a drop or two of pellgun oil into the cylinder well, letting it sit overnight, then putting a new cartridge — also with a drop of pellgun oil on it — and letting that sit overnight?

      Jim



  14. Off Topic: Blog or RSS “Readers”?

    I have seen several of you regulars post on here before about not having certain functions available, for this blog, when viewing from your phone / mobile device. I usually just log in to this site via my web browser, whether on my laptop or phone/tablet. Are many of you using some sort of reader app? If so, which ones? Why?

    I had a reader a few years back, that aggregated some other newsfeeds I used to subscribe to, but when the maker did away with it — I can’t remember the name now — I never bothered to find another. I get most of my newsfeed directly in Facebook these days….and I wish we could access this blog through there. It would save having to go to another site.

    Thanks in Advance.

    Jim M.



      • Chris,

        I did not even know Yahoo had a RSS feed. (ha!) I do have a Yahoo email address I only use for some personal stuff. I gave up on Yahoo’s news and weather a long time ago….too inaccurate and frustrating for me. I’ll check out this RSS feature though.

        Thanks.

        Jim


        • Jim,

          Your humor is lost on me. I have an HP laptop, Yahoo is the search “engine”,… I think?,… and through the Yahoo home page and my saved favorites,…. I hit the P.A. site through my favorites and go right to the main P.A. site. Once on B.B.’s site,… the RSS feed works fine. It has been invaluable on keeping up. That’s all I got.

          Chris (a.k.a.,… tech. dummy) 😉


          • Chris — I was just poking fun at myself for not being aware Yahoo had a reader. I was trying to say, they have been around so long that you’d think I would have known that. Heck, I’ve had that Yahoo email address since sometime in the 90s. I’ll go on Yahoo and figure out how to set up the RSS feed.

            Thanks!

            Jim (another tech dummy. LOL!!)


            • Jim,

              From one “dummy” to another,…. 😉 I am not even sure Yahoo has an RSS feed. B.B.’s site does have it,…. I have an HP laptop,…. Yahoo is my homepage,… when using my favorites to get to the PA site,… the RSS feed works fine.

              Geo,… where are you when we need you? 😉

              Chris


            • Jim & Chris,

              I’m here for you! Yahoo is just a web site you can use for a home page on your computer. Some people prefer MSN as a home page. I use Yahoo myself because it can be configured to include the types of things I want to see. Firefox has a built in RSS feed reader. I don’t think Internet Explorer does though, nor Google Chrome. The blog site uses it’s own reader. You should not need anything special on your computer to follow the blog with the RSS feed.

              Depending on which operating system you are using, jump lists are a fast and easy way to go directly to the latest blog or read new comments. Windows 7, 8, & 10 all have the jump list option. Here is how that works:

              Create a shortcut on your taskbar at the very bottom for your browser, Firefox for example.
              Use that icon to open your browser and go to the Pyramyd blog site. Frequented web site visits will add an icon on a jump list. Right click on the browser icon and you will see the jump list appear. There will be several sections but focus on the “Frequent” section. That section will only save a few, I believe six, web sites in it. Right click on the ones you don’t want and that will make space for new ones to populate the list. Okay, if you are still with me, once you see the Pyamyd blog site in the jump list, look at the right and you will see a little tack icon. Click on the tack and the web site will be pinned to the jump list in a section named “Pinned”.

              I have the blog site pinned at the top of my jump list and the comments pinned just below that.
              This is much easier than using favorites on the toolbar. It’s quick and you go straight to the web site you want. Many people are not even aware of the jump list feature in Windows.

              So my procedure is to right click on the browser icon and choose the airgun blog site first. After reading the daily blog I leave the browser open and then go back to the taskbar and again right click on the browser icon to open the jump list and select the “Comments”. Then I go to the bottom of the comments and began reading the ones in blue, which are comments that I have not yet read. The ones that I have read are colored red. Then I work my way up the list until I have read all the unread comments.

              Hope this helps you guys using a computer to more easily keep up with the blog and comments. Happy to answer any questions and give more help if needed.

              Geo


              • Geo,

                Thank you for the detailed reply and info on how to pin the site. Although I am not a complete luddite — — I was not at all familiar with the “jump list” you describe. We have to use Windows on the computers at my business (an operating system / franchisor requirement), but I have used Mac OS extensively for a number of years now, and avoid Windows as much as possible. Safari automatically creates a “Top Sites” page that sounds similar to the jump list.

                I know I don’t need a separate RSS reader, but was trying to find out if using one might be a “cleaner” option on my mobile devices, or even on my computer — a way to have the blog “pulled in”. Using the browser is not bad, I just didn’t know if it might be easier to follow comments, or access other features via a RSS reader.

                Thanks again!

                Jim


              • Geo,

                Oh yeah, I forgot — if you ever change your mind about selling that Model 34 that B.B. tuned for you, I am interested! And I promise it will not be sold — it’ll remain in my collection of airguns to be passed down to my boys, along with the signed copies of Tom’s books, and all The Airgun Letters as well.

                Jim



          • GF1,

            Thanks for that info. You probably just saved me some frustrating experimentation. Although, my nephew has told me he likes a reader called “Feedly”. He is pretty tech savvy about those things, and picky as well, so I might give just that one a try.

            Jim M.


            • Jim M.,

              You can search for a RSS Android phone app in the Google Play Store. Various RSS readers can do what you want. I’m currently using RSS Reader. Expect some delay (about an hour at most) between a post appearing on the computer before it appears on your phone. I don’t know if Apple’s iPhone have anything similar in their Store. Set up can be confusing though. Experimentation with the settings revealed there was a control that allowed the program to check for new postings every 5 minutes which helped keep me up to date.

              Siraniko


              • Siraniko,

                I use iOS. Although there are several different RSS Readers in the app store, I suspect I have found the one you are referring to. I will download and give it a try. Unless, can you tell me if you can read and post comments with that app? If not, then I will pass.

                Thanks.

                Jim


                • Jim M.,

                  In my version you can read the comments and the article. If you wish to respond to a post it will open your browser to allow you to post. I don’t if any RSS reader can respond without logging you in through the browser first.

                  Siraniko



      • Chris,

        YEEAAAAH for the flip phone!

        I have a laptop at work. I am at this moment on my laptop at home. My wife has a notebook and we both have Kindles. Why in the world do I want a so called “smart” phone? My flip phone works very well, thank you very much.

        Besides, the money I do not throw away on that so called “smart” phone and the service for such can be used to further my addiction with airguns.


    • Jim,

      I use a desktop computer with a Firefox browser. The Firefox browser has an RSS reader built into it, though I think I read somewhere that Mozilla was going to eliminate it. It’s still working today though.


  15. Well I worked on the shot tube for my Daisy Single Model H. It was fairly straight forward. The front end cap was loose and tab holding the spring that locks the sight into the locking notch was broke off. Not my best soldering job but should work. Below is a picture of the shot tube.

    I put about 20 drops of pellgun oil down into the cocked piston chamber to soften the seal and let set while I was working on the shot tube.

    I checked to see if a new bb would go all the way past the end of the barrel and get into the compression chamber. They do not on mine so I can test it with new bbs until I can order some of the correct size ones. See B.B.’s blog below for details on the bbs.

    https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/08/daisy-number-12-model-29-single-shot-bb-gun-part-2/

    I will say this gun is hard to cock. It would take a big kid to be able to cock it. I will try to figure out a way to measure it.

    When I shot it, the bb just rolled out the end of the barrel. I put a piece of paper towel over the end or the barrel and it barely blew it off. This gun is going to need some work on the piston seal. If I remember correctly the rear sight that is welded in place needs to come out to take things apart. That is not a big problem. I can just grind the weld off. Eventually I will get up the nerve to take the gun the rest of the way apart.

    Don


    • Don,

      Glad to see that you are getting “in there”. My 75th Red Ryder cocks WAY harder than the 499. Go figure? My guess is that it is all about leverage and pivot points. Sounds like you will be going further in. (piston seal) I would do some research first,… but that is just me.

      Chris


    • Don
      Makes me think if I would want to go there.

      I like to mod. Guess I need one to really know if I would want to put in the effort.

      I guess if it keeps another one alive it would be worth it.

      Maybe you need to open it up and go there. You like modding. What do you have to loose. It’s not doing what you want now. Plus you might come up with something others have missed. That’s the cool thing about modding from what I have seen.

      I say do it.


      • GF1,

        Soldering or welding would be a bummer. I have done both,… but that is not the same thing as just taking things apart. Just saying,…. that would be a bit of a deterrent to me.

        Chris



          • GF1,

            I am not set up for (or) well practiced in either. It has been a few years. If I was (serious) about restoring an air gun that required that,.. I would send it off to an expert. But,.. that is just me.

            Chris


            • Chris
              Well ain’t it funny how time changes things.

              If you did send it away. Then you could at least comment on how that exsperiance went. And if it’s what you hoped for.

              Then what if it’s not. Then where would you go? You mod it or send it away.

              Yep your right do your research good then you should get what you want. Right?


  16. DAISY Single Model H

    Ok, so I just started over on the string. My Daughter came over tonight and kicked my butt with both my Mrod and 46M. The restoration on the Daisy Single Model H is going to take a while. I hope B.B. gets ahead of me because I am much more of a hack than a craftsman. It will be a while before I go into major surgery on the old bb gun. If someone wants to work on it I would be willing to pay, let me know.

    Right now on gunbroker there are a lot of great old airguns for sale. Including a Model A Supergrade.

    I will probably get the Daisy working but it will take some research and time. I do not want to destroy an old icon.

    As GF1 says what have I got to lose, well just a bit of history. This is going to take some time and contimplation.

    Don


    • Don
      A little research and I think you will do just fine.

      And what to loose. Right now it’s not working. All you can do now is look at it and hold and wish it shot.

      That reminds me of what we use to call trailer Queen’s with the muscle cars. Some would transport them on trailers to the car shows and most wouldn’t even start them. They would just sit on the trailer. To me they are meant to be used not just looked at.

      And from things we talked about in the past. I don’t think you will have any problem restoring your bb gun. I say go for it.


  17. Wow! There certainly has been much interest expressed here so far this weekend.

    I hope nobody minds if I veer off subject just a little bit for a moment. Saturday a few antique guys got together and shot a bunch of modern and antique airguns. It was the 2nd Not So Annual Southwest Virginia Airgun Fun Shoot.

    Actually, one of the shooters was my son-in-law who is about half my age, but he is working on becoming an antique. We gathered at Lloyd’s house and spent the day shooting airguns that ranged in age and caliber from my 1906 BSA in .177 to Lloyd’s custom .51 caliber behemoth.

    A large time was had by all. I am looking forward to The 3rd Not So Annual Southwest Virginia Airgun Fun Shoot, hopefully this spring.


    • RR
      Sounds like fun. And your a lucky guy to live by Lloyd. I can’t imagine all the things that could be cooked up spending time with him. He’s definitely done alot of cool things air gun related.


      • GF1,

        Road trips with him to Fun Shoots or airgun shows are a tremendous learning experience for us both. I do truly enjoy his company. I am really looking forward to “The 3rd Not So Annual Southwest Virginia Airgun Fun Shoot”.

        By the way, you remember that Diana 46E you traded to me? Well, it does not look like I will be selling it. My son-in-law spent a couple of hours shooting it Saturday and has fallen in love with it. He said it was his favorite air rifle to shoot at the Fun Shoot. I guess he will find it in his stocking for Christmas.



  18. Here’s a question.

    Wonder what modern air guns that we are seeing now days will make it to the point of a being old and still desirable accurate shooters.

    And I’m talking about them all. Springers, nitro piston, Co2, pumpers and pcp’s.

    Everything new becomes old. They are out there right now and we get to shoot them.

    I think the 54 Air King is one. Then there’s the Nova Freedom. And probably a 2240. Maybe even a Marauder. And of course there’s more I can think of.




        • GF1,

          I would think that some of the high end stuff would fall into that category as well. Daystate, FX, Brocock, etc.. One, for their high build quality and second for the fewer #’s sold.

          Chris


          • Chris
            Probably so. But maybe even the mid priced Marauder might be sought after.

            I’m thinking that because of reliability plus that parts will more than likely be available like how their older guns are now. For the most part anyway.

            And here’s another thought. I wonder what pcp pumps will make it through time. Oh and while I’m at it. I was looking at some stuff and see that the Air Venturi compressor uses the same rebuild kits that my compressor uses. Even the piston and rod and the armature that also doubles as the crankshaft. At least it’s nice to know that I can get parts easy if needed.

            But yep everything that is being made now will be old one day.


            • GF1,

              Interesting. What does that say about the A.V. pump? I would be disappointed if A.V is using a cheap Chinese pump like yours and dressing it up with some bells and whistles,… and charging quite a bit more. That is (quite) a coincidence.

              How did you?/where did you? find the info. that the parts will cross over?

              Chris


              • Chris
                Search Air Venturi hpa compressor parts and see what you come up with. And search China hpa compressor parts and see what you come up with.

                And PA does carry parts for the Air Venturi pumps. Search the PA site too


  19. Everyone,

    There is now an edit option for your comments. If you post something and need to make a correction, you have 30 minutes to make it. Don’t ask me how it works because I just learned about it.

    If I approve a new comment (from a reader who hasn’t posted before) it cannot be edited.

    B.B.



  20. B.B., or anyone with experience on the Hawk Sport Optics Vantage 4-12X50 and the TX200 MkIII.

    With my TX200 MkIII arriving tomorrow. I have a question. I planned on using the Hawk scope below that I already have.

    https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hawke_Sport_Optics_Vantage_4_12x50_AO_Rifle_Scope_Ill_Mil_Dot_Etched_Glass_Reticle_1_4_MOA_1_Tube/5048

    It says on the scope description “Please Note: Not suitable for use on a spring/gas piston airgun exceeding 12 ft pounds.”

    The rifle is pushing 16 foot pounds.

    This scope shows up under recommended Accessories to the TX200 MkIII so I am guessing the smooth TX200 MkIII is an exception.

    Don



      • Ok thanks, I will give it a go tomorrow if all goes as planned.

        By the way my edit clock has been showing a start time of 30 minutes for all of my posts today. That is a great feature.

        Don


    • Don,

      I had the TX in .22. Since it is smooth and it (is) an etched glass reticle,… then I think ok. The scope will walk. So at least a stop pin. I used the DNT06 drooper mount and went to P/W rings (low) if I re-call. Enjoy the TX. It is a fine rifle. Mine was a Walnut, left.

      Chris


      • Chris U,

        Thanks my TX200 is walnut right. I have a one piece mount with a stop pin, so that should not be a problem. Also have one layer of credit card on the bottom of the rear mount ring to start with. I have it all laid out on the workbench with the tools ready for when it arrives. Like a little kid at Christmas.

        I knew you sent yours to a new home,

        Don


        • Don,

          The tube is rounded as I recall and the 11 mm grooves are not near as deep and tall, as say, on the Maximus, M-rod or Red Wolf. Just be aware and use your experience and judgement. A simple check would be to unmount the scope after 50 or so shots and see if the stop pin hole is taking a mashing,… or not. Just some FYI.

          Chris


    • Benji-Don,

      For what it is worth, I bought my first new air rifle on 4/28/14 for $489.99. It was an RWS/Diana model 48 in .177 caliber which came bundled with a Hawke HK 3019 4-12×50 AO IR scope mounted in a 1″, one piece RWS droop compensated lock down mount. To date, that scope has never been mounted since I replaced it with a Hawke HK 5133 3-12×44 SF. At that time, both of these models were rated suitable for magnum springers, now, most, if any Hawke with a 1″ tube is not.

      So far, I have not had a problem with the RWS mounts on my RWS 460 magnum in .22 caliber or Xisico XS46U in .177 cal with a gas piston, knock on wood. The BKL 260D7MB is a nice quality one piece droop compensated mount BUT it will not accept any scope IF the bottom of the turret boss protrudes more than .110″ below the 1″ tube diameter of the scope, which in my opinion severely limits its applications to many scopes. The dovetail to Weaver base that Chris mentioned would be another good one to try.

      Personally, I would not shim your scope with a credit card because they are way too stiff and will reduce the nominal 1″ ID of your rings from .029″-.033″ on a side and could damage the tube. To err on the side of caution, why not just contact Hawke and inquire if the warranty will honored if this particular scope is mounted on a TX200 MKIII?

      PS: There is a new type of thread locker which does not harden like Locktite blue or red but remains pliable and can be reused, it is manufactured by ND INDUSTRIES, INC. and is labeled Vibra-TITE VC-3 THREADMATE. I believe that a drop of it on the inside bottom of bare scope rings would prevent slippage. I purchased mine from McMaster-Carr.

      Bugbuster


      • Bugbuster,

        Thanks for the good advice. I have already mounted the scope on my TX200 and shot about 100 shots. I think it will be fine. Time will tell, so far so good. The TX200 is a remarkable gun.

        I go a different route than most folks. When working on motorcycle and boat engines where steel bolts go into aluminum I use anti seize and have had good luck so far with scope mounts.

        My rings have the soft tape inside that puts a good grip on the scope.

        Here is the Mount: https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Leapers_Accushot_1_Pc_Mount_w_1_Rings_High_11mm_Dovetail/636

        Thanks again Don


        • Benji-Don,

          I am glad that you are happy with your new acquisition and it is shooting well.

          I am also a firm believer in the use of anti seize since it is no joy attempting to remove a broken steel bolt or stud from aluminum housings, steel into cast iron oftentimes, is bad enough. Living in the rust belt, anytime I have to work on a vehicle and bolts have to be removed, they get a coat of it before re-insertion. It simply saves a lot of headaches down the road. There is a process where powered alum is used and it will dissolve the steel while leaving the aluminum unaffected, very interesting.

          Bugbuster


  21. BB,
    Diana should make a K98 Mauser with an “old” finish. I think that would look better than nice and new.

    One of the main things I like about old guns is the warm look and feel old guns get that have been handled for years. I like guns where the blueing is worn of the top of the receiver from the hand wrapped around it while out hunting for years. I like the way the wood finish wears where it has been shot and shot and shot. I like break barrels that have worn finish on the end of the barrel from being cocked so many times. These guns I like have not been abused, but just used as they were intended. I wonder about all the stories these guns could tell if they could talk, or the stories those airgunners would love to share with me.

    David Enoch


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