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JSB RS group

FWB 124 air rifle: Part 5

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↓ 101 comments

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

FWB 124
This FWB 124 Deluxe is not the exact gun I’m writing about, but it is the same model.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • To scope or not?
  • Long sight-in
  • JSB Exact RS
  • Air Arms Falcon pellets
  • That’s it
  • Open sights versus a scope
  • Summary

Before we begin I have sad news. A reader who often commented on this blog, Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe, passed away on Jun 24. He had an accident a week before and suffered a brain injury that overcame him. He will be missed on this blog.

Today I scope the FWB 124 and shoot it for accuracy at 25 yards. We last looked at this rifle on June 12, and it was tested with open sights at 25 yards. In that test JSB Exact RS pellets gave me a 0.889-inch ten-shot group and Air Arms Falcon pellets put 10 into 0.874-inches. Today we will see what effect scoping the rifle has. Many people believe it will be even more accurate, because most of the aiming error will vanish.

To scope or not?

Scope sights do improve your precision when aiming. But they introduce a bag full of their own problems at the same time. The trick is to get the precision without the attendant problems. That’s why I used open sights when I first tested Geo791’s Diana 34P. I didn’t want the additional problems associated with mounting a scope to interfere with my assessment of the rifle’s accuracy potential. Once that potential is established, though, then mounting and using a scope can improve things — as long as it is done correctly.

I mounted my new Aeon 8-32X50 scope on the rifle. This 8-32 is as short and small as most 4-12 scopes. I bought it from Pyramyd AIR recently because it is a superior optic. I mounted it in BKL 2-piece high rings. FWB 124s are difficult to find scope rings for but the BKL rings fit them perfectly and do not slip when the gun is fired.

Long sight-in

For this test the sight-in period lasted a long time. While it took just 5 shots to get on target at 25 yards, I fooled around with trying to shoot the FWB 124 rested directly on the sandbag. This rifle shoots so smooth that it reminded me of my Tyrolean R8 that’s able to be shot that way. But the 124 has a long piston stroke that needs the artillery hold.

I discovered the best hold is resting the rifle on the palm of my off hand when it is back touching the triggerguard. Believe me, I tried many holds before coming to that conclusion. As a result of all my shooting, I had fired the rifle 24 times before the first serious shot was taken.

JSB Exact RS

Group one was with JSB Exact RS pellets. In the test with open sights I put 10 of them into 0.889 inches at 25 yards. This time with a scoped rifle 10 went into 0.917-inches between centers. That’s right — I shot a tighter group with open sights! All theory aside — it happens!

JSB RS groupTen JSB Exact RS pellets went into 0.917-inches at 25 yards. This group is larger than the one I shot with open sights in Part 4.

I wasn’t too concerned about the RS groups, because that wasn’t the most accurate pellet. That title fell to the Air Arms Falcon that I felt would also do best in today’s test.

Air Arms Falcon pellets

Falcons were next and also last. In the test with open sights 10 of them went into 0.874-inches at 25 yards. The scoped rifle put 10 into 0.693-inches at the same distance. That’s what I expected to see today.

Falcon group
Ten Air Arms Falcon pellets fired from the scoped rifle went into 0.693-inches at 25 yards.

That’s it

There you have it. The FWB 124 is accurate. It did about as well as expected, though time spent with a Beeman R8 does make this one seem like more of a powerhouse that’s harder to control.

Open sights versus a scope

This also serves as an excellent test of the same rifle fired with both open sights and a scope. As you can see, there is nothing magical about a scope. It does help you see the aim point better, but it does nothing for your hold, which is where accuracy lives. Learn to trust those open sights and they will work well for you.

Summary

This is the last report I have planned for this rifle. I would like to remind you all that Pyramyd AIR sold this to me at the Findlay airgun show, after it sat on their table with no interest for 3/4 of the show. They were asking $250. I bought it because it was a bargain, plus I have a soft spot for 124s.

I have no plans to sell this rifle. You can buy it at my estate sale, when I won’t need it any longer. But this is another not-so-gentle reminder to get out and attend those airgun shows!!!!!! The bargains like this one are found there more than anywhere else. The Kalamazoo show will be on Sunday, August 20, and the 2017 Texas Airgun Show will be Saturday, August 26.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

101 thoughts on “FWB 124 air rifle: Part 5”

  1. May Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe, rest in peace….

    Nice report and lovely rifle. Will the Texas Show be much bigger than the Kalamazoo Show?

    -Y

  2. B.B.,

    This kind of test reaffirms my decision to stick with iron sights, mostly, especially with springers. I’ll reserve my use of scope sights to my CO2 and PCP powerplants.

    Siraniko

  3. B.B.,

    In the section (Open Sights Versus A Scope) section, it should read,.. (…… both open sights and a scope.)

    Question: On scopes, especially ones high magnifications in the 30+ range,… at what point/cost can one be assured that the scope will perform well at higher magnifications?

    The reason I ask is that tried my UTG 4-16×56 yesterday at 16 mag.. It became (very) eye position sensitive. I can not imagine what a 32x would be like to use.

    You say that this scope is good. $241. The UTG 8-32×56 you say is good. $333. The 4-16×56 I have is good, or so I thought. $200. All are etched glass.

    Do you see my quandary here? I am not opposed to paying up for a scope, but if one were to desire clear sight picture at (high) magnification, what is one to expect? How does one know? Do all high magnification scopes suffer some clarity at higher settings? Do they all become more eye position critical?

    Tuff questions I know. Sorry about that. Clarity and use are subjective things. Hard to quantify into words. I suppose that if you were to ever do a blog on the subject,… it might be titled “What to expect when shooting at 32x magnification”.

    Thanks, Chris

    • Chris,

      That’s not a tough question.

      First let me ask you a question. How much should a house cost before you can be assured it is good? The answer will also work on scopes. In other words — you can’t tell. Price is a poor way to identify good optics.

      No, all scopes do not suffer clarity at higher magnifications. They do degrade, but so little that you cannot tell.

      Second, what you describe about the positioning of your eye is actually good, not bad. For it helps you always place your eye in the same place and eliminate parallax. The best scopes (Swarovski, Meopta, etc.) are extremely position-sensitive.

      Third, I shot today’s test at 32 X. It wasn’t that hard and, as you can see, I did okay.

      B.B.

      • B.B.,

        Thank you for that quick reply. Yes, you have mentioned that a person can not judge quality based on cost alone before. You did just “ok” huh? I would say that you did exceptional. 32x huh? I meant to ask that.

        What I can say for sure right now is,… that “sweet spot” in which there was total clarity,.. was much harder to attain at 16 magnification. At my normal 7-9 setting,.. sighting is quick and easy.

        I suppose that this is something that I just to need to practice. And here I thought that I been doing good thus far. Always more to learn! 😉 Next time out I will keep it at 16x and back it down to 70/50 yards and see what happens. Just the type of thing that keeps me excited,… learning something new, pushing limits and testing. 🙂

        Thanks again, Chris

        • Chris
          On scopes, I did some reading when I was shopping for a scope recently. I found out that as the magnification is increased, the size of the image that comes from the eyepiece is decreased. That is part of why eye alignment is critical to get a clear view of your target. I think I read this on the Leapers website.
          Gopher

          • Gopher,

            Thank you for that. It has been some time since I have studied up on scopes. I do remember what you are saying though. I can see why people get frustrated pretty easily when first exploring the upper ranges of magnification. Heck,.. I was only doing 16x. Once I did get it though,.. it was a huge benefit.

          • Gopher,

            The other thing that I have discovered was that an eye cup/rubber bellows on the ocular lens does make a (huge) difference. That allows the pupil to stay more open and therefore take in more of the image. Basically cutting out the ambient light around and ahead of you. The size of the pupil was also another big factor that I remember.

            I bought a UTG brand and found it to be near useless. I had to cut and hack and whack it quite a bit. It is perfect now,.. but I can’t see anyone using it straight out of the box.

            I only have it on my M-rod 4-16×56 scope.

            • I have the UTG scope in 4-16, got it to top an M-rod. I found that if I don’t have a baseball cap on there is to much glare on the glasses to see through the scope. At proper eye relief the brim is just on the scope. Last time out an eight shot magazine made a one hole group.

              • Gopher,

                You can’t beat 1 hole groups! 🙂 I have 32 yards that I shoot across in front of the house. The sun reflection off the house can be a real pain. My shooting bench is 100% in the shade. So, I am dealing with bright light (between) me and the target. Beyond 32 yards is thick woods all the way to the 100 yard marker. Yup, that light can be a pain. As I said before, that eye bellows is a big help. Just good luck on finding one that you will not have to customize.

                  • GF1,

                    About this time of year, the sun comes up at my straight ahead 2 O’clock. Then, it rises at an angle towards/over my head. This occurs from about 8 AM till about 1 PM. In the early stage, it bounces off the house pretty hard. I have been putting off shooting till later. Which I hate, as me and heat/humidity do not get along. Cloudy days are my favorite, shooting or not.

                    As a side note,… a recent eye appt. revealed that people with light colored eyes are more sensitive to bright light. For me, that holds true, as mine are light blue. I hate a super sunny day.

                    • Chris, my group was shot at 35 yards. That is shooting from under the deck which keeps me in the shade. If I move out by the garden shed I have a 45 yard range. That is the limit of my range area. Today was just for the fun of it, shooting a golf ball around with a pellet pistol.
                      Gopher

                    • Chris U
                      My dad’s eyes were dark brown. Almost black looking actually. He never had any problems shooting that I can remember. Matter of fact he never missed. And I’m serious never missed.

                      My mom had hazel eyes. I ended up with light blue eyes. My old stuff daughter too. We both have very sensitive eyes. My youngest daughter ended up with hazel eyes like my mom. Light doesn’t bother her and she can pick up on dark objects better than me. Like a animal in a tree and such.

                      So yes u know what you mean.

                      And out where I’m at now the sun comes up on the left an moves to the right. So I got sun pretty much of the whole day.

                      I d notice though that with those UTG scopes I just got that I have to have eye placement just right or I get that foggy glare. If I get my eye placement right they are very clear. If not I have to adjust my eye.

                      My Hawke scopes are not like that.

              • Gopher
                That was me that asked what distance. Not Chris U.

                But yep a very respectable group at that distance.

                One hole and all. I like when that happens. 🙂

      • Here’s an interesting point about eye placement and parallax. I’m gearing up for another test of accuracy with my Saiga. The new elements include the sandbag I am putting on top of the rear rest (as opposed to the squishy airplane pillow). But the real secret weapon is a rubber tube that attaches to the near end of the scope and rests right on the shooting glasses. This should ensure an eye placement every time. But I’m a little nervous about this tube transmitting recoil into my glasses and face. Has anyone had experience with this? Do this device work?

        Matt61

        • Matt61,

          In concept it should work. I am sure that you know the normal way of just repeating the hold while setting everything up until it all falls into place every time. It might be a good training aid though. A bump or something irregular on the cheek piece would be another. So many are so non-descript.

          Chris

        • Matt61
          On a recoiling gun probably not a good idea.

          You heard of the hunter tattoo haven’t you. The recoil makes the scope wack your eyebrow and leaving a nice cut to deal with.

          It’s easier to just shoulder the gun as normal with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes you should instantly see your sight picture without moving your head around.

          What I try to do is place my cheek on the comb in the same place when shouldering the gun. If you do how I just mentioned all you should have to do is move the scope forward or backwards till you find the right location for sight picture when shouldering the gun naturally.

        • Thanks for the responses. Yes, I know about natural point of aim and have tried that on the gun. But to be honest, my purpose here is to rig the game in my favor by any means possible. As the saying goes: “If you’re in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” Yes, I’ve heard about scopes hitting people in the face. This happened to the former British princess “Fergie” when she was married to Prince Andrew. The public response was not sympathetic, and one politician even said, “We don’t want stupid women charging around the country with guns.”…

          Anyway, my tube is rubber and seems to have a section in an accordion shape so that it can flex. It won’t hit as hard as a scope, but it’s hard to tell if it will be tolerable. Since I will be resting it on my safety glasses, it’s probably okay to try.

          Matt61

          • Matt61,

            Yes,.. by all means,.. stack all of the odds in your favor. Whatever you think will work (for you). I (have) done my share, of doing just that.

            My only thought to your new “tool” is a piece of shrink tubing that might be used on some 12 gauge wire,.. electrical taped to the ocular. Maybe a zip tie. Trim as needed. Be sure to keep us all posted.

      • I have a marlin semi auto 795 and I put the tech sights on it that mimic AR 15 sights and at 50 yds guys with scopes cant outshoot me some can match me but not do better. most guys have a mental block with iron sites

  4. BB
    A bit off topic, but if you get the chance some day, please try RWS Superpoint 8.2 gr. and the RWS Superdome 8.3 gr. pellets in your Daisy 853.

    I had almost given up on this gun- I was getting a too low MV and too high ES despite having rebuilt it completely- I even changed the frame, pump arm, compression tube, bolt, complete FCG, as well as the other things you did to yours to get it to behave (all springs, O-rings, bolt, lube, etc.). After all that I was still seeing an ES of ~ 50 fps, along with a MV that wandered around from 420 to 470’ish when it felt like it.

    Not until I used these pellets did I see a vast improvement in ES and a stable MV. The Superpoints shot faster (491 fps average) than the Superdomes (451 fps average), but the slower Superdomes gave me an ES of 13 while the faster Superpoints were still over 20 fps ES.

    BTW, I tried these pellets because you had mentioned the thin skirts being something to consider for use with lower powered airguns- and I thank you for that insight!! Because had I not found a pellet that worked, this gun was going to be sold with full disclosure to the highest bidder (read anyone w/a $50.00 bill burning a hole in their pocket). It was just not worth the frustration- I couldn’t have kept it the way it was shooting.

    Thanks again, Mark

    • Wanted to add that I haven’t shot either of the RWS pellets for accuracy. If the rain stops I’ll do that later today. As a point of comparison, RWS Hobby 7.0 gr pellets gave me an average of 478 fps, ES of 35. IIRC you got about 450 fps from the Hobbys, with a tighter ES of 11.

      The pellet I had been testing with was the Crosman Premier HP 7.9 gr., mainly because I have a lot on hand. It is terrible in my 853, as I have learned. If it wasn’t clear before how pellets can affect an airgun, it sure is now!

      By the way, what other pellets have very thin skirts?

      • Cobalt,

        How ya been? I will be dealing with rain here later as well. Hope to get out this AM. I may try the hyper tuned 499 indoors at 41′ later today when I get bored. At 24′ it gets boring after a few shots. I get excited if one bb does (not) go into the same hole. 😉

        IIRC,… you got me on that one. (I)f (I) (R)emeber (C)orrectly for anyone else that may not have ever seen that. I had to look it up on Wikipedia. Good to know though.

      • Cobalt327,

        Most, if not all of the RWS pellets have thin skirts. I just today (Monday) shot 7 different RWS pellets over my chrono for accuracy at 12 yds (length of my basement) from a rest, with an inexpensive 3-7 X 15 scope. I’ll post the SD,MAD,ES and AV as well as the group sizes, if you are interested. Most of them shot great.

          • Cobalt327,

            Here goes!

            BASIC HOBBY Mk Mk R10 R10 SUPERDOME
            PISTOL RIFLE PISTOL RIFLE

            SD 15.35 6.33 4.42 7.60 1.75 5.01 3.78
            MAD 11.0 4.9 3.8 6.2 1.3 4.2 3.1
            ES 49 21 11 24 6 14 11
            AV 476 476.6 489.8 430.5 491.2 429.7 435.1

            466 490 494 426 495 434 429
            470 471 485 438 491 425 436
            469 470 483 432 489 429 431
            465 469 493 436 490 435 430
            466 479 492 424 492 421 437
            474 478 484 432 490 433 435
            489 472 491 433 493 423 438
            467 478 494 443 491 434 438
            514 479 494 419 491 431 440
            480 480 488 422 490 432 437

            CTC .605″ .475″ .349″ .25″W .360″W .360″ .500″
            X X 9 in .300″
            .50″H .170″H

            I’m sure the groups would be better with a better scope. The one I used cost less than $10.00 and had very obvious parrellax ( I know that’s spelled wrong) Now I know the gun is worth scoping better. I have another one of these that I’ll be wringing out after this one and I’ll post the RWS results when I do. I might mention that there was a single hole in my backer board that was only .75″ high and .5″ wide (.573x.323 CTC) after these 70 shots. I’ll be shooting lots of other (and cheaper) pellets through these guns and if anything especially interesting pops up I’ll shout out at you on the current days blog comments, if you’d be interested.

          • Cobalt327,

            Looks like this software lines everything along the left edge so my nice neat columns are a nearly unreadable mess now that it’s posted. If you can’t unscramble it let me know and i”ll try something else. Sorry. The pellets across the top are BASIC,HOBBY,MK(MIESTERKUGLN)PISTOL,MK RIFLE,R10 PISTOL,R10 RIFLE,SUPERDOME. At the bottom the groups in order are: .605-.475-.349-.25wX.50h-.36wX.17h-.360-.500(9 went into .300″)

            • Halfstep
              Thank you for that info. Besides pointing out a couple that look really decent, it also tells me my MV is about where it should be after all the work I did.
              However, I just found a potentially fatal flaw with my 853’s barrel- there’s a wide area where the rifling is damaged. I found this after closely inspecting several pellets I retrieved after being shot into soft wadding so as to not damage them. The pellets are all exactly the same, having the rifling engraved perfectly into the heads and skirts for ~80% of their diameters, but the remainder shows a wide ‘gouge’ instead of the distinct, narrow rifling that these barrels have. I’m totally bummed. I have put a LOT of time and effort (and a pretty good chunk of change even at Daisy’s good parts prices) into this gun, and now I find this. smh

              My borescope is too large to fit into a .177 barrel; .22 is the low limit, so I have to go by what I can see or feel. There’s nothing obvious at the breech or muzzle. When I push a pellet through from the muzzle, it goes through the choke restriction first and this makes feeling anything beyond that hard to read. So I’ll need to disassemble it to run a pellet through from the breech.

              I sent an email to the CMP with a request to exchange barrels or barreled actions, or the entire gun- although shipping just a barrel would be easiest for me. No idea what their response might be. If they won’t help, I still have options if the barrel is beyond repairing. Here are a few:
              1. Replace the barreled action with a new one from Daisy for $65.00 plus shipping. Then I would basically have a new rifle, as everything else except the barrel band and receiver cover has already been replaced.
              2. Replace the BA with one for a 953 and make it into a repeater (I already have the breech cover and bolt plus pellet clips). Would lose the LW barrel, but the cost is just $30.00.
              3. Live with it.
              4. Sell it w/full disclosure.

              Here’s a photo but the damage is hard to see. In person using a loope, it is painfully obvious and not at all subtle- it’s bad I assure you!

              http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/7/78/RIFLING2.jpg

                • I’m starting to think it has something to do w/the TP. I’ll know more once I break it back down for the umpteenth time. Bright side is I can dis- and re-assemble it in no time. 🙂

                  • Cobalt,

                    First, may I call you Cobalt as I hunt and peck and every character saved is a Godsend? Next, if by TP you mean the air transfer port, I think you are correct. You could check that by chambering a pellet then pushing it back out with a cleaning rod through the muzzle. I might also ask if you KNOW it is impacting your accuracy. I understood you to say in yesterday’s comments (I think) that you hadn’t shot it for accuracy yet. I believe it likely would, but have you shot for groups ? Also the damage seems to be on the back side of the curve of the dome as if the loading probe tilted the front of the pellet up before it reached the forcing cone and rifling then as it tilted back down under the influence of being centered by the rifling the back edge of the head got nicked by a burr in the transfer port. Or Maybe I am imagining the whole thing! 🙂 Good luck in any event and I hope it is just a burr. They are easy the file or sand off.

                    • Halfstep
                      Cobalt is fine, or ‘c’ or ‘327’ or even “hey you”! It’s all good.

                      I will do just what you suggested tomorrow when I can take the time. Whether it’s the TP (and yes- transfer port is correct), or something else I still need to disassemble it again to get a better look. Once it’s apart I will be able to chamber a pellet then push it through the barrel manually. That will take the effect of the bolt probe out of the picture. I will also push a cotton swab into the breech and give it a twist to see if it snags on the opening of the TP.

                      I do not know what the effect has been on accuracy, if any. But when I first got it I shot a few targets at 10 yards, and it was never stellar. I always chalked it up to user error and me not being in practice using peep sights. I can say that for casual plinking it’s accurate enough. It was the wandering MV and too high ES that made me keep trying to find a fix and in turn that led me to this latest finding.

                  • Cobalt,

                    I just loaded,then pushed out a Superdome( I think that”s what you pictured) and a R10 pistol pellet and looked at them with a 30X pocket microscope I have and my gun’s TP is scraping some lead off, but my groups are still pretty good (IMO) in spite of it. Maybe some accuracy testing will save you a teardown. Super-consistent velocity has not been a requirement for good accuracy, in my experience. I don’t know what makes a gun /pellet combo group well ,but it seems to go beyond SD and ES. I would have thought the lead shaving thing would totally ruin the accuracy but apparently not. Full disclosure; my pellets aren’t as bad as yours so your mileage may vary.

                    • I get what you’re saying regarding accuracy vs. MV/ES. At 10m, this wouldn’t likely be an issue at all. But the way I use my guns- back yard targets at up to 30 yards- means I really need a steady ES/higher MV because pellet drop is magnified as the distance increases. Now, I realize I’m asking the gun to do things it wasn’t really designed for- but having a tight ES is well within the capability of these guns, regardless of what range its being used at.

        • Cobalt,

          I need to amend my above statement. Of the 6 RWS pellets I have on hand, none are as thin as Superdomes. My recollection was that they were all thin but what they actually are is soft. It yields a similar result,in that the skirt flares out easily, but a really thin skirt will flare really easily, of course. The MKs and R10s have the thickest skirts and Basics and Hobbys are about half way between them and Superdomes. Sorry about the mistake but didn’t catch it ’til you got me lookin’ for gouges from my TP. BTW, I’ll bet GunFun1 can tell you exactly how thick the skirts are.( Maybe not for RWS pellets ’cause he likes JSB and H&N)

    • Cobalt,
      I had very good luck with the Crosman Premier round nose. I have the brown box version but I believe they are also available in a 500 count tin.

  5. Siraniko mentioned on the weekend blog about Sir Nigel.

    Like I said over the weekend. Sad

    And BB I was waiting for this test. And yes trusting open sights does seem to fool some people. And I like that you brought up the point how scopes can help but have their setup issues and such to contend with.

    Also that’s a very good point about higher magnification that Chris U found out about yesterday with eye placement.

    Amazing how many different things to learn about scopes, open sights and pellets and holds and so on. And that it’s different for each gun.

    But once you find that right combination it sure makes for some fun shooting. 🙂

  6. B.B.,

    As I read your description of your trying many different holds before going back to the standby hand position of back by the triggerguard, I realized that I tend not to do that. I should, of course.

    What I mean is that I automatically use the artillery hold with every springer, and with each air rifle I place my fore hand right in front of the trigger-guard. I suppose I feel that the more the weight is to the muzzle, the steadier it is.

    But now when I play with them, I’ll see with each if I can coax a bit more accuracy of of it with a different hand position.

    Michael

    • Michael
      And trigger hand pressure and thumb placement as well as how much pressure you use to place your gun up against your shoulder.

      All just as important as the fore hand placement. And something else I do with the fore hand which seems to work well with springers even.

      I place the gun directly on the bag about 3 inches forward of the trigger guard. Then put my pointing finger on the side of the barrel and on top of the stock at the same time. Then I take my middle finger and set it on the side of the stock while also touching the bag where the stock is rested. Then I put my thumb from that hand under the stock where it’s resting in the bag and also at the same time touching the bag under the stock.

      And notice I say resting (in) the bag. I make sure the gun has the bag shaped like the stock. Probably about a third of the stock is rested in the bag.

      But the way I place my two fingers and thumb on my fore hand helps steady the gun from canting side to side and also helps the gun from wanting to jump forward or backwards or up. And that’s what my thumb on my trigger hand does also. I put it on top of the stock right behind the action and use a little down pressure. And forgot. That’s all done after I pull the butt of the stock into my shoulder slightly. But that’s pretty much how I stabilize all my guns if I bench shoot off a bag. When I have a bi-pod on the gun I do it a little different. I place my fore hand up on top of the front scope bell. The shouldering and trigger hand and thumb I do the same. But this second way is usually with pcp, pump and Co2 guns. From what I tryed bi-pods just don’t seem to work with springers. And I do use the first method I mentioned with pcp, pump and Co2 guns if I don’t have a bi-pod on them.

      I hope I didn’t muddle that up to much when I explained. But that’s how I do it if anyone is interested.

  7. There is something almost magical about trusting I open sights. You can’t quite see the point of aim, but you pull the trigger on faith and somehow you hit the bullseye. A very different experience from using a scope.

      • GF1,

        On the (above comment) on the Hawke scope,… I find that the one that you sent with the LGU I got from you to be very eye placement sensitive compared to a UTG at the same level of magnification.

        I do not know anymore. I am tempted not to buy another scope until I can test it in person and take it outside and spend some time with it. Yea,.. like there is anywhere like that. Ok,.. P.A. does have that 30 day bit. IMO,.. they need a walk-in store.

        • Chris U
          So as the conversation goes today. Maybe that’s a good thing on eye placement.

          But you know what. I find I have a very wide range of adjustment with the ocular lens for reticle focus. I also find that it effects my eye position with glare the way I have tryed adjusting it. Even more so with the UTG scopes. And I have noticed that how far away the scope is from my eye changes reticle thickness.

          So maybe there’s more things to be seen with scope adjustment and alignment than you have noticed yet. Maybe more experimenting with scope set up is in order?

          • GF1,

            Perhaps. Perhaps not. The most expensive scope I have is the 4-16×56 UTG on the M-rod at $200, so (maybe) that is part of the issue. They all work fine and easy at lower magnifications. At around 10 mag. is when you begin to notice differences.

            At any rate,.. I will keep pondering the issue and playing with it more.

  8. Back in the FWB’s hey-day as an FT rifle (early 80s, until the HW77 came along), we used to expect 25 yard groups of .35-.50 inch with good pellets. So, while its a keeper, it might need a service or fettle.

    • Geezer,

      “fettle”: make ready; condition; state, (in fine fettle). Yup,.. had to look that one up and I do believe that is the first time I have heard it. Mid 50’s,.. so maybe I missed the boat on that one? I do like it though.

  10. I saw Wonder Woman the other day, and I can give it a high recommendation. If for no other reason, you get to see Gal Godot who, I believe, was Israel’s entry in the Miss Universe contest. She should have won the whole thing. With the setting in WWI, there was also a lot of great period gear. K98 Mausers were cutting down the Amazons! But in the middle of this is a very exasperating question. There is a British sniper in the plot, and I cannot identify the rifle he uses! The stock does not reach the end of the muzzle, so it is not a Lee-Enfield. I don’t see a cleaning rod below the muzzle, so it’s not a K98. On the other hand, the reticle of his scope has the three posts characteristic of Zeiss optics, later adopted by the Russians in WWII. Perhaps its a P14 or P17 rifle with a German optic. Can anyone identify this rifle? We can’t very well scoff at the generally low level of knowledge about guns in fiction if we can’t identify their equipment…

    Matt61

  11. Greetings from Colombia. I’m a frequent reader of this blog and the comments from other readers, and this is the first time that I gonna post a comment. Does anybody use the Range Buddy software (you can find it in the Goggle’s Play store) to measure their groups?
    Using it I find myself shooting slightly better with open sights than with the scope (13mm vs 16mm CTC 7 shot groups) at 20 meters with my Hatsan 95 Vortex .22.

  12. This is off subject but does anyone know where the serial no. is on a Daisy 853. I have two that I got from the Civilian Marksmanship Program and I want to keep separate records on them as I develope the data,but I can’t find the serial numbers. Right now I’m making due with Red tape and Yellow tape.

    Does anyone know anything about the Crosman 262 CO2 rifle. I found one hiding in a cubby hole in my basement. I think I bought it, then decided that CO2 guns were too expensive to feed since they couldn’t keep up with the power of my springers back in the day, so I boxed it up and apparently hide it from myself for 25 years. Now I love CO2 guns and this one looks nice with its wood stock, but can’t find the usual stuff (modding, accuracy testing, chrony testing and such) when I google it or check youtube. I think it was only made for a few years and maybe that’s why no info.

    BB, have you ever written about the 262?

  13. Gunfun1.
    Yes sir. I found this app very useful, allowing me to record my shooting sessions in a similar way than that of issf 10 meters matches. And all for free!
    I hope some day we can read a review from Mr. Gaylord or another experienced shooter in this blog, so more shooters knowns this app. (Please excuse my bad English, obviously I’m not a native speaker!!!:)).
    Greetings.

    • Ivan,

      I say welcome too. Sorry about the abbreviation on the name. That is a pretty long one. Your English is more than good enough. 🙂

      Stick around. There is much to learn and lots of good people to be found here.

      Chris

    • Ivan
      I posted your comment on today’s blog about the Diana 34. Along with the app help page I posted here. So hope someone will see it there today. I don’t know if everybody goes back and reads the comments on previous blogs.

      But yes I think it’s pretty nice. Plus I can have it on my phone and have it to use anytime I want. Maybe I can try it this week. But probably this next weekend comming. I’ll see if I can post some targets using it.

    • Ivan…..

      Welcome to the blog! I’m rather new here myself and have really been impressed with the amount of knowledge to be tapped and the generous nature of everyone who comments. AND they are nice and courteous to each other. As for your English, it is muy bien! Much better than the Espanol I learned in the 4th grade.

  14. I have been following this review closely. What surprised me was that for both the 124 and the new model Sport lighter weight pellets performed best.
    Do you have any thoughts as to the reason please?
    Rick.

  15. Being retired, well past my “best before date” and with plenty of time for projects, I recently purchased an old 124 serial number 19xxx. Cosmetically in average condition for its age, but does shoot well. Experimenting with pellets I tried the lighter versions, though in the end it was a standard JSB Diablo that performed best. But there was a common factor with your findings, and that is the size 4.52.
    Other blogs I have read have also commented favourably on this sized pellet.

    But my, the 124 is a challenging shooter. I have mastered off hand using the artillery hold but kneeling and sitting continue to be challenging at this time.

    I enjoy your write ups very much. Rick.

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