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Daisy 22SG multi-pump pneumatic: Part 3

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by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Daisy 22SG
Daisy 22SG.

Part 1
Part 2

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • The test
  • Check sight-in
  • RWS Hobbys
  • Beeman Kodiaks
  • RWS Superpoint
  • JSB Exact RS
  • RWS Superdome
  • JSB Hades
  • Discussion
  • Summary

Today we learn how accurate the Daisy 22SG is. The rifle was already scoped so I hoped it would be close to zero, if not spot-on. I didn’t know what pellet(s) shot well in the rifle, so this test starts from the beginning.

The test

I shot the rifle off a sandbag rest at 10 meters. I shot 5 shots per group and pumped the rifle 6 times for each shot. In the velocity test we learned that 6 pumps pushes an RWS Hobby pellet out at around 500 f.p.s. That’s fast enough for punching paper.

Check sight-in

Since the rifle is scoped I first checked the zero from 12 feet before shooting from 10 meters. The pellet hit about an inch below the aim point and a little to the right. It was hand-held, but that was close enough to start shooting from 10 meters. I expected the pellet to rise at that distance and it did. It’s hard to say how much it rose because 5 Hobbys went into 0.925-inches at 10 meters, but the center of that group seems to have risen about 3/4-inches. I am not showing that group.

RWS Hobbys

I adjusted the scope up several clicks and shot a second group. This time 5 Hobbys went into 0.659-inches at 10 meters. The group looks larger than that because the top pellet tore the target paper a bit, but I can see where the pellet impacted and I measured from there.

Hobby group
Five RWS Hobby pellets went into 0.659-inches at 10 meters. The group appears larger because the top pellet tore a piece of target paper that extends to the right.

Beeman Kodiaks

Someone may have commented that their 22X or SG shoots well with Baracudas. I tried some Beeman Kodiaks next, which are the same pellets as Baracudas. Five of them went into 0.691-inches at 10 meters. The group is horizontal, but I didn’t notice that while testing. I’m not sure I could have done anything about it, either.


The Daisy 22SG put 5 Beeman Kodiaks into 0.691-inches at 10 meters.

After this group I adjusted the scope up and to the left. There seems to be no stiction in this scope because the first shot after adjustment went right were it should.

RWS Superpoint

The next pellet I tried was an old standby — the RWS Superpoint. They are often quite accurate in vintage airguns. The 22SG put five of them in 0.661-inches at 10 meters. And that is an interesting measurement, because the first two groups measured 0.659- and 0.691-inches. At this point in the test it started to look like that was about the group size I would get regardless of the pellet that was shot.

Superpoint group
Five RWS Superpoint pellets went into 0.661-inches at 10 meters.

JSB Exact RS

Well, the next pellet — the JSB Exact RS — blew that theory right out of the water! Five of them went into 1.131-inches at 10 meters

JSB RS group
Five JSB Exact RS pellets made this 1.131-inch group at 10 meters.

RWS Superdome

Next to be tested were five RWS Superdomes. Five of them went into 0.783-inches at 10 meters. Okay, we are back to the good range again!

Superdome group
Five RWS Superdomes made this 0.783-inch group at 10 meters.

JSB Hades

The last pellet I tested was the JSB Hades hollowpoint. They do very well in many airguns, so I thought, “Why not?” Except for the unusual “hollowpoint,” this pellet is a domed diabolo. And, like the JSB RS pellets, five of them went into 0.96-inches at 10 meters. This was the second largest group of the test, with the JSB RS being the largest.

Hades hollowpoint
Five JSB Hades hollowpoints went into 0.96-inches at 10 meters.

Discussion

The Daisy 22SG is not a tackdriver, that’s for sure. But it puts pellets where they are aimed for the most part. It’s certainly a good little plinking airgun.

There may be one or more pellets that deliver stunning accuracy that I just haven’t found, but what we see from my little test is the rifle will put five pellets it likes into less than 3/4-inches at 10 meters.

The rifle might have tightened up a little with more pumps, but I pumped it 240 times just for today’s results! That’s enough!

Summary

I learned a lot in this test. I resealed the pump in five minutes on the fly, which is the fastest any airgun has ever been fixed by me.

The trigger is heavy, but the pump effort is light. This is an air rifle you can shoot a lot, as long as you aren’t in a hurry.

The scope’s parallax isn’t adjusted for 10 meters, but it works. I don’t think I’ve ever shot this rifle with the open sights.

There are a lot of recent “vintage” airguns, if you just take the time to research them. This has been a detailed look at one of them that is admired by more than just airgunners.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

175 thoughts on “Daisy 22SG multi-pump pneumatic: Part 3”

  1. BB,

    Not a bad little pumper to piddle with. The length and ease of cocking should make this user friendly for both the little and big kids. Like you pointed out earlier, the metal receiver and wood stocks work in its favor also.

    If any of you guys want one of these you had better get them now. My experience has been that once BB writes about an airgun, the price goes up.

    • “My experience has been that once BB writes about an airgun, the price goes up.”
      Good point, RidgeRunner; anyone that wants one for fun had best look for one quickly. =>

  2. I wonder what causes the mediocre accuracy? The pneumatic system itself should lead to a rather accurate gun. I suppose it is barrel, trigger or the way the barrel is fixed to the plastic receiver…

  3. BB,
    Something of interest for you. I’m not familiar with the 22SG but if it’s built anything like the 880 when it comes to how the barrel is mounted you might try an 880 trick to improve accuracy. The straw barrel on the 880 is undersized where it fits the plug in the end of the outer barrel covering. The first mod most 880 owners do is wrap a layer or two of black tape around the very end of the straw barrel so it fits good and snug inside that end plastic piece. This usually helps accuracy a whole bunch. Just a thought.
    Ray

  4. BB,

    Off subject. I am somewhat impatiently waiting for your Part 7 review of the FX Dreamlite. I say somewhat impatiently as so far I have not been impressed enough to drop $1100 on this air rifle. I shot a .25 at Lloyd’s at 50 yards using three different JSBs. The Exacts did the best, but did not impress me. I think they have been overmarketed and overpriced.

    When I drop over a grand on an air rifle, I am expecting the groups you are getting at 25 yards at 50 yards.

          • Brent,

            I have known of that mod for the Disco for many years. I do not want to go that road.

            I am probably going to shoot it as is for a bit. I am pretty certain I will then add the two trigger screws. An airgun dealer in the SW USA sells a sear that will convert this trigger to two stage.

            Next I will probably go with an adjustable striker spring and a larger transfer port. Eventually I will likely put an adjustable regulator in it. If the Maximus is still not interesting enough I will replace the barrel, likely with a LW poly or maybe even a TJ.

            Eventual goal, 10 shot groups at 50 yards that will hide under a nickel. I will probably end up with around $600 in this package, but it will likely outshoot an air rifle that costs over a grand.

            • RR
              You might as well get the Fortitude instead of the Maximus. It’s already got most of things you want to do to a Maximus. Plus it has the shroud and rotary magazine and I believe comes with a single shot tray. Or at least you can get the tray for it if you want.

              • GF1,

                That is not the point. I would rather build one step by step than buy it already done. I would buy the Marauder before I would buy the Fortitude because it has better performance and is more adaptable.

                  • GF1,

                    My understanding is because of the unadjustable regulator, it has slightly lower power than the Maximus. The Marauder is bigger, bulkier and heavier, but can be adjusted all kinds of ways and is most definitely more powerful.

                    • RR
                      Oh I would choose the Marauder over the Maximus or Fortitude no doubt in my mind.

                      The reason I say that is I like the tunability.

                      But I will say this. My .22 Maximus is a very accurate gun. And I’m finding out that it’s not pellet picky either. Maybe the Marauder’s aren’t pellet picky either. I was hooked on the JSB pellets. So I don’t believe I tryed other pellets in the Marauder’s I had. They were accurate with the JSB’s so that’s what I used.

                      Darn anyway do I need to get another Marauder to try some different pellets in it. How about maybe some other people can chime in on this with thier Marauder’s and different brand pellets. It’s always nice to know what pellets have worked in particular guns. I would like to know.

                  • GF1,

                    For some reason the Marauder just never clicked for me.

                    Choosing THE .22 PCP air rifle for myself is not easy. It is likely to be the last air rifle for some time. If I did not have to pay attention to cost…

                    • RR
                      Maybe this will help you. Go on the Crosman website. They now offer a Marauder with a Lothar Walther barrel. They still have the regular Marauder’s too.

                      When your scrolling through the pcp guns they now have different models of the Marauder’s.

        • RR,

          I love mine. I did add two 4-40 screws and lube to the trigger. 1 was for a stop and the other to advance “first stage”. Also cut a spring for overall trigger pressure,…. but then again I may have replaced it with a ball point pen spring,.. cut to size?. It has been awhile so I do not remember exactly without checking notes.

          The Gen. II Fortitude has some upgrades,… eh? Again,… I would lean towards that between the two of them. It is perfect for a lightweight woods walk,…. but either would do nicely.

          Chris

          • Chris,

            I looked at the Fortitude for a bit, but I would rather build up than start up. I do not think the regulator in it is adjustable. It does have an adjustable striker spring. It may also respond well to a transfer port change out.

            I am really not that crazy about having that magazine involved. I am not really crazy about its design. Almost all of my airguns are single shot. The magazine depth can also be a limiting factor. Maybe that Maximus port can be enlarged?

            • RR
              If I had to do it all over I would get the Fortitude over the Maximus mainly because of the shrouded barrel. But I got too many mods on my Maximus to turn back including the Marauder pistol 2 stage trigger internals.

              Here’s my Maximus how it is now.

                    • RR
                      Too bad they still don’t have the Katana stock available. I really liked that stock. It would dress up a Maximus or Fortitude nice.

                      But I think you would like a prod. My buddy still has the one I sold him around 6 years ago and still shoots nice. Never been resealed either. A prod double with one of Lloyd’s kit would be nice. I wouldn’t turn one away if someone gave me one that’s for sure.

                • Brent
                  Nice. I like the Marauder trigger and the trigger guard you made. And sling attachment’s too. Looks like an adjustable comb too. And I guess the knob underneath is to get the stock off.

                  Did I get it right and did I miss anything? Oh and what scope is that?

                • Tha comb is from an airsoft sniper rifle. The cover is from an add on comb kit that uses foam inserts. I drilled two holes in the top of the stock for the two prongs from the airsoft comb to fit in. The cover holds it in place.

                  I got the Euro Maximus from Dave Slade. He had done the two screw modification to the original trigger but it either adjusted too light or too heavy so that’s why I got the Gen 1 Marauder trigger from Discos are Us. It’s about perfect. The trigger guard I cut from a Chinese B2.

                  The knob sticking out from the bottom is where the bolt attaches the stock to the body. The screw is a 1/4-20 thread that goes to the connector with another 1/4 by 20 screw (both all thread) that the knob is attached to. I meant it to be like a palm rest on Schuetzen rifle and to give the rifle a little more height when I shoot kneeling or standing.

                  You’re allowed to use a sling for standing and kneeling in field target so I’ve been messing around with it. The Euro Maximus has a threaded muzzle cap so I have Hatsan air stripper at the end of the muzzle. I’m not tsure it makes any difference either but it looks cool so I keep it on 🙂

                  Any more ?’s, feel free to ask.

                  Brent

                    • Brent
                      That’s a good idea with weighting the stock. We would weight the bottom of the butt of the stock. It does help stabilize it like you said.

                      What pellets and what velocity are they shooting at. If you don’t have a chrony what does Crosman say that Euro model is suppose to shoot at?

                    • Leapers 6x24x50 with a wire reticle. It’s been a good scope. Can’t beat them for the price. I also filled the body with cheap pellets (Crosman Destroyers) because it was too light to hold steady for off-hand.

                    • GF1,

                      Well,… moving the band did work. Of course,… it would matter what you have hanging off the end of the barrel too,… if anything but stock, “Hunter Maximus”. Both, moving the band and adding something to the end of the barrel will make a huge difference to the bad or good. Just got to play and find the right combo.

                      I think that both play into the overall harmonics. By adding/using a (moved?)clamped down barrel support, that introduces 2 variables. If the barrel is free floated, (band bored out/removed), then only the muzzle add on would be a factor.

                      Fun to ponder the possibilities.

                      Chris

                  • Brent,

                    Thank you. On the air stripper, I tried that as well. This worked better by a significant amount. Plus, “it looks cool so I keep it on”. 😉

                    /product/crosman-np214-001-trail-baffle?a=7784

                    I also moved the barrel band back about 3″ from stock. I moved it 1/2″ at a time to find the best spot. Screws still tight. You could try a free float situation too.

                    Good Day,…….Chris

    • RR
      Since your off subject I’ll add to it.

      You mentioned you was interested in the Dragon Claw lever action guns that have came out.

      Well I got my refund finally today on the Sortie tact I returned. And just to say another situation still going on. The Air Ordinance SMG I sent back that they got the day before Thanksgiving day still hasn’t been refunded. They checked it in and said all good and the money will be refunded. Well after contacting them a few times since then they finally said it got refunded yesterday. Ain’t seen anything yet. Definitely not happy with the situation. Especially after I made sure that everything went back with the gun and packaged it up nice and got it sent back the weekend I received it and it failed.

      Anyway back to the original comment. The lever action Dragon Claw. I just ordered what I will call the price point pcp of the Dragon Claw lever action. The Hatsan Vectis lever action. Got it in .22 caliber. Kind of excited about it. I shot some lever action firearms when I was a kid growing up. Needless to say the lever actions are cool guns. I hope it turns out to be nice. We’ll see.

      • GF1,

        ‘Tis a shame the Sortie and the SMG were disappointments. I am sorry for your woes with Air Ordnance as their MODOC kept popping up on my radar. They have been building the SMG for a lot longer and seem to still have issues. I do not think I will be going there, most especially with that substantial chunk of change.

        I hope the Vectis works out for you. I have heard good things about it. The looks are a little wonky for me, but… Let me know of your experiences with it.

        Now the Eagle Claw is built on the well proven Sumatra platform. They have taken that and refined it some more and turned it into a nice piece of eye candy. We may have to keep our eyes on this, though the lever will not be shooting bench friendly.

        • RR
          I was hoping the Air Ordinance SMG was going to be a reliable gun since they already have exsperiance with paint ball guns that are similar. I wish it would of stayed working. I definitely liked it. But I’m sure disappointed in thier refund process so far.

          But I will have to say I like the Eagle Claw lever action. Especially now that they decided to put a shrouded barrel on it. And I’m sure it’s worth the money but a couple hundred dollars cheaper would of been nicer. What are they like in the $700 range I think without looking.

          And yep I thought about the lever action and bench resting. It don’t really bother me to lift the gun to cock it. Heck you got to do that with a under lever or break barrel springer. So no big deal to me. I plan on mostly using the Vectis as a I hope fast action plinking gun. Lever actions are pretty quick from what I remember as a kid. And I’m pretty sure it’s going to make good power and be pretty accurate going by the other Hatsan pcp’s I have had. We will see though pretty soon I hope. I hope it don’t take me till Christmas to get it.

  6. Gunfun1,

    Thanks. It is the smooth bore aspect I was wondering about, and I don’t even question something farther the 10 meters.
    I have to chuckle when, in a movie, Davey Crockett wins a shooting contest by stacking one shot on top of another. I don’t question skill was important, but I am in doubt about how accurate the smooth bore long guns were at longer distances.

    I am amazed, however, at the technology that developed. I wish I could again see the sniper rifle that was in a shop in Richmond, Texas. This was civil war era. The rifle had a large hexagonal barrel. I do mean large. No one was going to shoot it off hand. I don’t know what the bullets looked like; heck, I don’t know what caliber it was. It did have a long scope. I assume it was good for long distances, but I don’t have any real information. I just know it looked wicked.

    ~ken

  7. GF1,

    I like the idea,… lead balls in smooth bore,… but it may come down to ball OD size. Like pellets,.. how good are the actual OD’s VS advertised? Sort round balls? Me thinks not.

    Chris

      • RR
        The thought is they would. But as I said to Chris. Think Daisy 499. I think if the fit of the round ball was right it just might be possible for some accuracy. I’m guessing power and distance will be the other factors.

        • GF1,

          If you could get a diabolo to fit the 499, it would be more accurate at longer distances.

          The whole reason for the smoothbore is to allow different ammo choices. Plus it is much cheaper to make.

            • GF1,

              The oil coated bb’s seemed to do better in the 499 as well. Then of course,… the added Red Ryder spring mod. which picked up 150 fps, extended range and improved accuracy.

              How does your 499 shoot? Oh wait!,…. you do NOT have one,.. do you? 😉 Sorry,.. I could not help myself! 🙂

              Chris

              • Chris
                No 499 yet. Notice the word yet. 🙂

                But yep the oil. I know I have oiled round nose and flat nose pellets in my smooth bore 760’s and it helped them group better. I would say oiling a lead round ball in a smooth bore 760 could make it group better. It’s got to take up the slop in the fit of the pellet or ball to the bore. Don’t know how much better with a round lead ball but it would be worth the try just to see ya know what I mean.

            • GF1,

              Yes, at a short range.

              Back during the Revolutionary War and the War of Northern Aggression the smoothbore was to allow quick loading and mass volleys. It was the only way to insure someone on the other side was hit. It has been demonstrated that a smoothbore has terrible accuracy at any real distance, no matter how well the ball fits the barrel. Take a 499 and shoot at 10 and 25 yards and tell me how you do.

    • Chris
      I think the fit of the round ball to the smooth bore barrel will be part of the trick to get them to shoot with any kind of accuracy. Think 499.

      As it goes you never know till ya try.

      • GF1,

        (From above), (different comment and out of room),…. JSB’s in the .25 M-rod I have. JSB’s in all of my guns in fact. The new FX slugs do have my interest due to better BC and longer range accuracy though. I wonder if filling that hollow cavity in the new FX slugs with the deeper hollow point would improve anything????? 😉

        Chris

        • Chris
          This is just me and what I have seen. Usually I have not had good luck with hollow points in my air guns. I do know though that the hollow point Crosman premier pellets have been better than the Crosman premier dome pellets. Why I don’t know.

          And now here’s another one. The JSB Hades pellets are just as accurate in my modded Maximus as JSB and Air Arms pellets. But as I said my Maximus is shooting just about every pellet I’m putting through it here lately accurately. So I just don’t know.

          Maybe the FX slugs would be better if filled in. ???

          • GF1,

            I do not know either. I would (assume) that FX tried that. It might be a balance, C of G (Center of Gravity) thing or something else that has to do with all of the other ballistic influences. Then again, it might just be simple weight reduction? From my simple thinking,… it is wonder that the new deeper hollow point slugs just do not catch wind and topple over backwards. Any hollow point for that matter. I guess that ballistics do not work that way. The (expanding) firearm bullets are very smooth at the front,… that is why I wonder.

            At any rate,… something to ponder. I may give them a go in the RW.

            Chris

            • Chris USA,

              OPEN YOUR MIND: now think, air is compressible and will fill the cavity to the point no more will enter. When full the hollow point no longer LOOKS hollow to the air it is now traveling through. As long as the lip is true and the bullet doesn’t Pitchpole (end over, tumble, cartwheel) it will perform like a very solid but CG:CD balanced bullet.

              shootski

                • Gunfun1,

                  When the bullet velocity slows the air pressure in the cavity falls. I know of no reason for that to be destabilizing. As long as the hollow point bullet is properly formed it acts much like an ice skater with arms outstretched doing a spin.
                  Destabilize is a big word that covers a lot of territory. But when the projectile destabilizes it is pretty much at the of the effective range.

                  shootski

                    • GF1,

                      Just a “slight” inclination here,…. but you just “might”? be in a losing battle here by going toe to toe with Shootski. I might be wrong though. 😉

                      Chris

                    • Gunfun1,

                      I think we went apples and oranges on that one. Lol!

                      I was simply using a skater in a fixed spot spin. Not a toe loop, double, tripple, or quad.

                      shootski

                  • Shootski
                    There you go again.

                    “I think we went apples and oranges on that one. Lol!

                    I was simply using a skater in a fixed spot spin. Not a toe loop, double, tripple, or quad.

                    shootski”

        • Chris USA,

          WHAT!
          Filling the cavity does what to the relationship of the center of mass and the center of drag (pressure) regardless of what the weight of the filler is?

          shootski

          • Shootski,

            🙂 It “messes” with it. It changes it. To what end effect,… I do (not) know. Somehow,… I knew you were going to jump all over that! 🙂 Aerodynamics was the primary thought. It would put the center of balance more forwards at the minimum.

            LOL!,……… Chris

            • Chris
              Rotation of the projectile is keeping the tumble out. Read the blog report BB posted above about the father son team. And read the comments too. A lot of info there.

    • Chris USA,

      Round ball accuracy is improved by spin. You may remember our exchange on the why’s of that.
      My .575 Quackenbushs are relatively slow twist rifled (both the short rifle as well as the pistol) and at 100 yards they will shoot 2.5″ groups for me but I’m getting better with the rifle. I will say this, that the Short Rifle shoots mrhollowpoint .350 gn. bullets better. I have had a few 10 shot (off a rest) moa groups with it. Dennis recommends not patching for ball.

      shootski

      • Shootski
        Come on. You know what is going on. The hollow point will destabilize quicker than a round nose projctile. It all depends on velocity and distance when shot out of the same twist rate barrel.

        • Gunfun1,

          How did a roundnose bullet get in this discussion? Well formed (cast) round ball can’t destabilize but round nose pellets or bullets can and do if the shape puts the center of pressure behind the center of gravity. Of course you can also push the CP so far forward on an overly long bullet and have stability issues. It’s like our Grandma(s) said everything in moderation.
          My understanding of hollow points has always been that they are designed for a purpose and that is expansion in flesh. There are tradeoffs and a price to be paid for that.

          shootski

          • Shootski
            Hollow points do destabilize. And they do it quicker than round nose.

            Another factor is weight of the projectile.

            Which will destabilize sooner a heavy projectile or a lighter one?

            Hmm wonder what I’ll bring up next.

            • Gunfun1,

              f=ma

              So heavier projectiles of the same form factor will slow their spin ever so slightly less over time.

              I am not able to get my head around why JUST the shape of a projectile nose changes the decaying of the spin? Help me understand please.

              shootski

              • Shootski
                Your doing what you always do. Listen to me now. This is it plain and simple. It all makes a difference in the accuracy of the projectile. If you don’t understand that I’m sorry.

                I know what I have seen.

                What are you trying to say anyway. You keep going in to all the other variables but it’s like your trying to make a point but nothing is happening. 🙂

                • GF1,

                  To your “Wake Up” comment,… I will hesitantly reply.

                  In my humble opinion,… I think that that Shootski has demonstrated considerable knowledge with regards to many things in regards to shooting. Far and above what the average poster here has displayed thus far. Exceptions, of course. Until proven/shown otherwise,.. I will give that some serious respect and mindful consideration.

                  When I know it all,… you will be the first to know. 😉

                  Chris

                • Gunfun1,

                  I posted about this from Chris: “The new FX slugs do have my interest due to better BC and longer range accuracy though. I wonder if filling that hollow cavity in the new FX slugs with the deeper hollow point would improve anything?????” In simple terms the answer was no; but I gave him the why also. I agreed with you that once a projectile has destabilized it typically loses any chance of being as accurate as it would have been if it hadn’t. I also pointed out what I believe the purpose of the hollow point design is. Fx says (according to the HAM report) they did it to reduce weight (Mass) of the projectile and expansion for hunting. The HAM comparison with the 16 gn round nose pellet is of little or no value because of the Mass difference to the hybrid slugs. No one has taken it as far as we have in a discussion that I know of. I don’t have the Fx Slug so I was only taking my experience with round ball and hollow points and adding my knowledge of external Balistics. You are right that we will only know once we have put lots of them downrange in many different PCPs.
                  Neither of us has. So all good things will come to us in the fullness of time.

                  I’m not going toe-to-toe with anyone! I’m just trying to learn and share what I know with those that are like minded. You and I have done that on and off very well…other times not so much…that is life though isn’t it Gunfun1.

                  shootski

                  • Shootski
                    We started out talking about a round ball in a smooth bore.

                    And yes I have shot hollow points. Firearms and air guns. That is what Chris brought up. That was one of my replies with the Crosman hollow points and round nose.

                    And then the talk was about the projectile to smooth bore fit. Then oiing the projectile.

                    Then the hollow point accuracy.

                    And yes I have put alot down range. Firearms and air guns.

                    Physics are physics. You or me can’t change that. The next step is pay attention to what you say. And don’t ever say what you think someone else has done or not done. That will bite you real quick.

                    Show what you have done. Don’t talk about it.

                    • Gunfun1,

                      From your response to me:
                      “We started out talking about a round ball in a smooth bore.”
                      I didn’t have anything to do with Chris and you in that exchange.

                      “And yes I have shot hollow points. Firearms and air guns. That is what Chris brought up. That was one of my replies with the Crosman hollow points and round nose.” I didn’t have anything to do with that that exchange.

                      “And then the talk was about the projectile to smooth bore fit. Then oiing the projectile.” I didn’t have anything to do with that that exchange.

                      “Then the hollow point accuracy.” I used it as a comparison on an exchange with Chris as a specific example/comparison of ball and hollow point performance with the DAQ .575 pistol and Shortrifle at 100 yards. If you have issues with hollow points is it pellets or slugs? You never made that clear. I was talking bullets(slugs.)

                      “And yes I have put alot down range. Firearms and air guns.” The only thing I talked about you and I learning from was putting Fx slugs down range; no questioning of your shooting history on my part!

                      “Physics are physics. You or me can’t change that.” I have nothing that I can reference your statement about physics too?
                      “The next step is pay attention to what you say. And don’t ever say what you think someone else has done or not done.” I haven’t ever done much in my life thoughtlessly; but I really don’t see the point you are trying to make.
                      “That will bite you real quick.” Is this referring to your above statement? Then it is of no consequence to me.

                      “Show what you have done. Don’t talk about it.” This is a Blog, folks write about things on them. As far as showing what I have done I don’t need to do that for you or anyone else. My life history is all the evidence I need to know what I have done.

                      To get back to the educational, here is an applicable thread you took part in:
                      This is from the blog that B.B. refered you to above that bears on my point:
                      “103David
                      September 24, 2014 at 4:52 pm
                      Sorry to disagree.

                      Really sorry.

                      But looking at the target for the .218 Wasp, that is decidedly NOT a tumble. That’s a YAW.

                      A tumble would be extremely unlikely to even impact the target in any way, but rather be one or more of those shots mysteriously disappearing into the aether, never to be seen again. You’ll get that phenom from firing a .22 cal projectile in a .25 or .30 cal barrel. Stabilization is not an issue in that instance as there never was a question of engaging the rifling…it couldn’t have happened. Think shooting a .50 musket with a .36 ball.

                      it’s gonna wander some.

                      What you’re seeing here is a projectile that did engage the rifling, collected a healthy spin, but just the

                      wrong spin, but never encountering a solid object after leaving the barrel.

                      The key to recognizing this is the fact that they’re all on the target, e.g. stabilized, and they’re all interdicting the target at the same aspect. A tumble, even if managing to hit the target, would be at random angles and random aspects.

                      But the real giveaway is that under these circumstances, to tumble, normally the projectile would have to impact something far more substantial than a single sheet of target paper…AFTER leaving the barrel. Far more substantial would include something like a resident Arkansas deer, or a Viet Cong Sapper.

                      Never could do much to tighten those ping-pong ball groups from the Blurp gun:)

                      Log in to Reply
                      B.B. Pelletier
                      September 24, 2014 at 4:54 pm
                      103David,

                      Thank you for that clarification!

                      B.B.

                      Log in to Reply
                      Ricka
                      September 24, 2014 at 6:54 pm
                      103David I was wondering about that because the bullets had a perfect side profile in the target. I have seen this before and it just popped in my head as I was reading the comments and saw your response. When I shoot my SynRod .25cal out to about a hundred yards with RWS 25 grain hollow points I found all of them and they impacted the target almost perfectly sideways. I called it keyholeing myself but something didn’t add up because their were no signs of tumbling, not one hit any other way but almost perfectly sideways.thank you.

                      Ricka”

                      The entire post was about Big Bore bullets and stability. With each passing year we have more knowledge about Balistics because the equipment used to measure it is getting better we have many more form factors to compute BC from, G1 and G7 have been joined by a whole host of more form factors and the latest technology is about to blow stock form factor for BC calculators completely out of the water.

                      Progress is happening. Don’t miss the train Gunfun1.
                      “We ain’t doing like we always did, no more.”

                      shootski

  8. Under Pressure just uploaded a YouTube video review of the FX Hybrid Slug. I have seen only positive reviews of this new slug, though it appears the airgun needs to shoot it at above 900 fps. At $15/100 rounds, they are a bit pricey but could be useful in special conditions at longer ranges. One of the best reviews I’ve seen was by Matt Dubber (airgun101.com). Seems there is a lot of interest in these slugs.
    Geo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1k-hvpmJqU&feature=em-uploademail

    • Geo,

      Very nice. Worth a watch ya’ all! Now THAT is a proper (indoor) 100 yard range! Nice video of Ted’s Holdover taking out pigeons with these as well. In that one, he is using a camera on his gun and not even shouldering the gun at all. He is shooting pigeons off the top of grain silos, so the gun is at an extreme angle while resting on a table off a bi-pod. (I believe GF1 has done some camera shooting like that)

      I am waiting for these to come out in .25. My RW will do a 25.39 at 925 and a 33.95 at 814. The M-rod will do 870 and 805 respectively.

      Thanks again Geo,…….. Chris

      • Chris
        Yes I have shot with my phone looking at the screen on video mode with the Iscope adapter.

        And I know we been talking about round balls and slugs and such but the Hades pellets are now available in .25 caliber. They are lighter then the JSB 33.95’s we have used in the Marauder’s. They are close to the 25 grain JSB’s like you been using in your Daystate.

        Here’s a link. They are out of stock now. But when they get back in stock I’m going to get some to try in my .25 Condor SS.
        /product/jsb-match-diabolo-hades-25-cal-26-54gr-pointed-300-ct?p=1560

  9. Folks,

    There has been quite a few slugs comming to market recently from H&N and now one from FX. Before they were only available from specialty shops or cast your own. The FX slugs look just like the H&N other than the are in the middle of the weight range. The FX slugs are now out of stock.

    Has anyone tried the H&N slugs? They come in two diameters and offer a sample pack for each diameter. I plan on ordering some on my next order and am curious about the .22 caliber slugs. They are different than the older designs that were based on a mini-ball design like the link below.

    /product/air-venturi-356-cal-115-grains-hollowpoint-100ct?p=953

    Don

    • Don,

      These are looking like a very good thing, I would say give them a go and report back. Best results I have heard about say that you want to use them in a gun that can push them at 900 fps or more. Of course your mileage may vary. Do let us know what you find.

      Mike

      • Mike,

        I studied the pictures for both FX and H&N slugs. I can see now that the FX slugs design is different. The swaging on the FX looks more uniform. A cross section of the different slugs would be helpful, I think they would be quite different affecting the center of mass and the radius of gyration.

        The FX slugs are not scheduled to be in stock till Feburary and that probably means July. Guess I will try some of the H&N slugs in the meantime.

        Don

        • Don,

          I like the way that the FX are packaged, a 10×10 plastic tray where the slugs are kept separate from one another.

          I see what you mean about the more uniform look of the FX’s and for the cross section it looks like the FX has a huge hollow where the H&N’s look much more shallow.

          Mike

  10. BB, I have a question for you and our panel of experts.

    My Weihrauch HW50S is acting funny.
    I did some testing in the basement at the start of November, looking for the magic .177 pellet.
    It snowed today so I went back down to finish my testing.
    I always shoot (18 inches back) over my chrony trying to find the best standard deviations.
    Yesterday the guns velocity was quite a bit slower than it was back in November.

    The breach seal looks good and a tissue laid over the breach does not move while shooting.
    I shot 2 other rifles over the chrony and they tested out the same as they did in October 2019.
    I don’t think it’s a chrony malfunction.
    The fps data listed below are all 10 shot averages.

    Would anything other than a broken spring cause such a change in fsp ?

    Randy

    Nov. 3, 2019 Dec. 15, 2019

    RWS Hobby 7.00 gr 683 fps 410 fps
    JSB Exact 8.44 gr 666 fps 503 fps
    JSB Exact 7.87 gr 700 fps 544 fps

    • Randy,

      If your rifle is heavily lubed and it was significantly colder when you tested it, that could account for a slowdown, though this is on the extreme end for that. I does sound like a broken mainspring. Is the rifle shooting smoother than you remember? That’s another clue to a broken spring.

      B.B.

    • Randy,

      I see BB jumped in and would have to agree. Quite odd that it happened during down time and not during actual use. That is extreme. I would assume that the house/basement is of fairly even temp.?,… so I am not sure that I give much merit to that theory. Please keep us posted as to final findings.

      Chris

  11. BB,

    I have never been inside of it to add any lube.
    It’s set up the same as when I got it in August 2014.
    Both shooting sessions were done in my basement at about 68 degrees.
    It has always shot smooth. I’m not sure if it’s smoother than it was before.

    Randy

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